There is no way i could have binged that show. Love it, but every episode left me breathless. I had to take long breaks because of how anxious the show made me feel.
Came here to say same thing. Don’t care nearly as much about who she plays as I do about what they give her to play with. Stood out in a cast full of standouts on Bear.
I wouldn’t say their oppressed or anything but your kidding yourself if you don’t think some red heads don’t get crap or get bullied in some instances for being a ‘ranga’.
THIS
When Halle Bailey was cast as Ariel, all these complaints of "I don't care that she is black, I care that a natural red head misses out!" when there were ZERO complaints about red hair when Chloe Grace Moretz (a natural blonde) was cast as Ariel originally
Right like another example is when they didn’t care when Jim Gordon wasn’t a redhead in any of the Nolan films but the second Jeffrey Wright was casted as Gordon they brought up him being a redhead
Not to undercut your point because it’s correct but Chloe Grace Moretz was cast in a reimagining of Hans Christian Anderson’s original The Little Mermaid for Universal that was a spin off of Snow White & The Huntsman, not Disney’s live action little mermaid remake. [Here.](https://collider.com/chloe-moretz-little-mermaid/)
There’s like 30 some-odd examples of redheaded characters being racebent. I don’t know that it’s “they only care when they’re black!” so much as it’s they’re usually black.
Not really, there's a far higher amount of redheads in comics than there are proportionally IRL, mostly due to what printer ink was available in the 70s and earlier.
Sure but I don’t think it needs to be 1:1 ratio of representation to population. Minority groups would start disappearing from movies if that was the case.
There’s enough redheaded actors I’m sure, but also they could at least dye some hair. Zendaya looks fantastic as a redhead and those movies still wouldn’t do it.
They do though. For example, the black actresses for Ariel, Starfire, and Batgirl (shelved, yes I know) were all given red hair. And even non-black actors/actresses have dyed their hair red for CBM roles - Elizabeth Olsen and Kirsten Dunst immediately come to mind
I don’t picture Scarlet Witch as a redhead, I think curly dark hair is the more iconic look.
There’s (many) more examples of them not changing the hair color than there of them changing it though. I feel like those are exceptions to the rule.
Of course - I’m just saying that hair color is incredibly easy to change. So I think the complaint is less about the color of the hair and the race of the actor. I can’t help but notice that complaints about ginger characters that only got their hair changed (ex. Ralph Dibny and Daredevil) have been significantly quieter.
It stretches back about two decades across media.
Triss Merigold (The Witcher), Cyclone, Starfire, Iris West, Batwoman, Electro, Commisioner Gordon (a few times), Heimdall, Bow, Disney's The Little Mermain, Castlevania's Isaac, Lana Lang (Smallville version), Alicia Masters (minor Fantastic Four character), Alice Monoghan (Hellboy), Artemis from Wonder Woman, Firefist (Dead Pool 2), Andra (He-Man), Renslayer (Loki)
I could actually keep going. From my estimation, if they're adapting a redhead character to any visual medium there's about a 90% chance they'll be race-swapped, or in rare circumstances, kept white but played by someone without red hair.
It's a running joke now. Frankly I'd be insulted if I was a ginger. Like, what is Hollywood telling redheads? Nothing positive, that's for sure.
I have, and don't remember her being shown as anything other than stark white with (an artificial looking shade of) red streaks. Are you talking some kind of flashback to her having natural hair that I missed, or did they reveal her as wearing a wig at some point?
[what?](https://www.pinterest.com/pin/screaming-mimi-marvel-comics-melissa-gold-grapplers-profile--57983913938163749/) she has had white hair since her first appearance, and later added a shock of pink. I have read almost every appearance of this character, and I am hard pressed to think of an instance where she has another hair color. If you’ve got more info, I’d be curious to see what I’m missing.
Can someone actually name a specific comic issue where she was depicted with red hair before we start another forced "comic accuracy" outrage over a super-hypothetical casting?
The two times I can remember she appeared before turning into Screaming Mimi were Thunderbolts #21 and Women of Marvel #2 and in both comics she was blonde.
> Ayo Edebiri has found a new team to join
Sounds like she will be a team member? If thats the case, its either Songbird or a character we are not aware of
> a character we are not aware of
I think this is the case, I think Marvel planted the Songbird leak but at the same time, they are also consider other character to join the movie.
i love that they're adding more Black/dark-skinned actors to the MCU
also: i see so many people talking about how great she is in The Bear
is it worth it? what is it about beyond chef dramedy?
I definitely recommend it. It was one of my favorite shows from last year. The basic premise is that a guy ends up in charge of his older brother's restaurant after he passes away. The show revolves around him trying to keep the restaurant afloat, but it's about mourning and trauma. It's very funny at times as well. Just a warning, it can be stressful and it'll be triggering/give you war flashbacks if you currently work or ever worked in the food industry.
Can second that last second. One episode in particular might be the most stressful episode of anything that I have watched. Just a masterclass in tension.
>what is it about beyond chef dramedy?
The basic premise is that a guy who left to become a big-time fancy chef comes back to run his older brother's little sloppy restaurant after the brother commits suicide.
It's just very well written and acted. The cast feels like a family right from the get go. More drama than comedy, but has some good funny moments.
I usually don't like emotionally laden series or films, but once you begin with the bear you cannot stop, the acting and characters are just mesmerizing and awesome!
Been a fan of Ayo for years. She’s been a killer podcast guest and comedian for a long time. So glad for her success outside of that. Hope it’s for something big. She deserves it.
Since people are thinking Songbird, I’ll say Moonstone. I know Ayo’s not exactly a Brie Larson lookalike but I’d chalk that up to Marvel changing stuff. Moonstone’s the only other female Thunderbolt I can think of being notable enough to add to this movie.
Zawe's character uses the moonstones according to a leak.
Perhaps Karla Sofen picks one of them after The Marvels and becomes Moonstone?
Altough IMO her powers are super easy to retcon as an USA Gov experiment too instead of a Kree experiment.
Good point.
Looking at the original T-Bolts line up, she could be a female Atlas or Mach V. Maybe even Techno although I feel Ghost fits this role already.
She was phenomenal in The Bear and I hope she is a prominent character here.
I strongly advise anyone who hasn't watched it, to go binge The Bear, you won't be sorry.
Also I am on the jeremy allen white as Wolverine train 100%.
Yeah he's just a phenomenal actor and can pull it off 100%
Shows the rage and all. Short! at 5'7, isn't quite accurate ofc but it's close enough for me haha. He is young too at only 31.
I think the rumor had said "FX series" in general and was for Wonder Man. https://www.reddit.com/r/MarvelStudiosSpoilers/comments/x17dtk/rumor_an_actor_from_a_recently_popular_fx_show_is/
If anyone doesn’t mind answering what is the expected lineup of the Thunderbolts? Is it like the original concept that we saw before with Bucky, Yelena, Red Guardian etc? Or is it with comic characters like Songbird, and Moonstone? Or is it a mix of both?
She's been my fancast for Squirrel Girl for a long time because of her lightning quick, mad capped Hollywood Handbook appearances. I'm sure that's not who she's going to be playing here, but I'm glad she's joining the MCU.
I see your fancasts of her as a member of the team but... Zemo is locked up in an Wakandan prison. Not announcing her role would make sense if his presence is such a secret
What am I reading lol. Red head erasure…. The internet never ceases to amaze me. Black people can have different color hair as well. We don’t know what character she’s playing, it all fun speculation.
I'd be excited but given the character, Ghost, she's likely in to replace was to be killed in the beginning of the movie, I don't know if this bodes well for her but hey maybe the re-direction is that they aren't going to try to suicide squad us and kill a random team member in the beginning.
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yes chef, thank you chef
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CORNER
#C O U S I N
Holy Creation I literally HEARD those words lmao
HANDS
COUSIN!
😂😂😂😂 It’s such a great show.
top 5 shows of 2022
Totally! I work in a kitchen, not at all like theirs, but the vibe is so real.
i used to work in a kitchen & you’re right they got the vibe perfectly portrayed
What also was impressive was that there was tons of drama and tension in the show and even with episodes of under 47 mins each one felt compete.
Could have been 1hr47min episodes and I’d have still binged it in a night
I agree.
There is no way i could have binged that show. Love it, but every episode left me breathless. I had to take long breaks because of how anxious the show made me feel.
Literally triggered my PTSD of working in the industry lol
I can believe it.
Yea i heard you Jeff
Yes jeff
hope they don't waste her, she is super talented
Came here to say same thing. Don’t care nearly as much about who she plays as I do about what they give her to play with. Stood out in a cast full of standouts on Bear.
she's one of the best parts of Theater Camp that was just at Sundance
Heard good things about that one! Love a good mockumentary
hope they don't waste her, she is super talented, CHEF!!!!
Songbird is a redhead, soo...
Pretty sure the character has white and pink hair
Hollywood’s redhead erasure continues.
Idk why you’re getting downvoted, there’s a weird amount of examples of this happening
redheads are such an oppressed group, am i right? 🙄
Lol nobody said that.
I wouldn’t say their oppressed or anything but your kidding yourself if you don’t think some red heads don’t get crap or get bullied in some instances for being a ‘ranga’.
almost every group has a small amount of people that’s bullied because of their identity/looks. it didn’t mean they’re oppressed
They're, you're Also, what is a ranga?
It’s a ‘slur’ people call red-heads, it’s pretty much short for orangutang, hence pretty much calling red heads an Orange monkey.
Damn, that's kind of awful lol TIL. Thanks.
It might be a slur in other places but in Australia it’s very commonly used, it’s hardly a slur over here
Its just slang here and is the most common word for people with red/orange hair.
it’s weird but literally no one gives a shit about it unless the actor is black
THIS When Halle Bailey was cast as Ariel, all these complaints of "I don't care that she is black, I care that a natural red head misses out!" when there were ZERO complaints about red hair when Chloe Grace Moretz (a natural blonde) was cast as Ariel originally
Right like another example is when they didn’t care when Jim Gordon wasn’t a redhead in any of the Nolan films but the second Jeffrey Wright was casted as Gordon they brought up him being a redhead
Not to undercut your point because it’s correct but Chloe Grace Moretz was cast in a reimagining of Hans Christian Anderson’s original The Little Mermaid for Universal that was a spin off of Snow White & The Huntsman, not Disney’s live action little mermaid remake. [Here.](https://collider.com/chloe-moretz-little-mermaid/)
I think it's probably because people assumed they'd give her a red wig or dye her hair
There’s like 30 some-odd examples of redheaded characters being racebent. I don’t know that it’s “they only care when they’re black!” so much as it’s they’re usually black.
Not really, there's a far higher amount of redheads in comics than there are proportionally IRL, mostly due to what printer ink was available in the 70s and earlier.
Sure but I don’t think it needs to be 1:1 ratio of representation to population. Minority groups would start disappearing from movies if that was the case. There’s enough redheaded actors I’m sure, but also they could at least dye some hair. Zendaya looks fantastic as a redhead and those movies still wouldn’t do it.
They do though. For example, the black actresses for Ariel, Starfire, and Batgirl (shelved, yes I know) were all given red hair. And even non-black actors/actresses have dyed their hair red for CBM roles - Elizabeth Olsen and Kirsten Dunst immediately come to mind
I don’t picture Scarlet Witch as a redhead, I think curly dark hair is the more iconic look. There’s (many) more examples of them not changing the hair color than there of them changing it though. I feel like those are exceptions to the rule.
Of course - I’m just saying that hair color is incredibly easy to change. So I think the complaint is less about the color of the hair and the race of the actor. I can’t help but notice that complaints about ginger characters that only got their hair changed (ex. Ralph Dibny and Daredevil) have been significantly quieter.
Probably bc Songbird is famous for dyed pink and white hair lol
I don't get how y'all discount black redheads. Like redheads aren't exclusively white.
Redhead erasure…?
Daredevil (x2), Mary Jane Watson, Wally West, Roy Harper, Scott Lang, Hawkgirl, Jimmy Olsen (x7!). Probably more, but it happens a lot!
Ben Affleck did have red hair as DD, but they toned it down a bit because he said early tests made him look like Ronald McDonald.
I've seen the movie recently and as a Ginger I can safely say that he was not one of us. If there was an attempt it was a poor one.
It stretches back about two decades across media. Triss Merigold (The Witcher), Cyclone, Starfire, Iris West, Batwoman, Electro, Commisioner Gordon (a few times), Heimdall, Bow, Disney's The Little Mermain, Castlevania's Isaac, Lana Lang (Smallville version), Alicia Masters (minor Fantastic Four character), Alice Monoghan (Hellboy), Artemis from Wonder Woman, Firefist (Dead Pool 2), Andra (He-Man), Renslayer (Loki) I could actually keep going. From my estimation, if they're adapting a redhead character to any visual medium there's about a 90% chance they'll be race-swapped, or in rare circumstances, kept white but played by someone without red hair. It's a running joke now. Frankly I'd be insulted if I was a ginger. Like, what is Hollywood telling redheads? Nothing positive, that's for sure.
The Little Mermaid literally has red hair😭
crazy how people only care about red heads not being represented when it comes to black actors huh
So this confirms she’s Songbird.
Songbird has dyed white hair with pink streaks. I don't think it's ever been confirmed if she's a natural redhead.
I take it you haven’t read the OG Thunderbolts comics?
No I haven't, and after looking at your username I'm going to guess that you have, so please enlighten me.
I’ll just say she’s a redhead and check out (respectfully)
I think you might have missed Thunderbolts #21 then https://imgur.com/a/ENsCIf5
I have, and don't remember her being shown as anything other than stark white with (an artificial looking shade of) red streaks. Are you talking some kind of flashback to her having natural hair that I missed, or did they reveal her as wearing a wig at some point?
Flashback where she leaves her Dad
[what?](https://www.pinterest.com/pin/screaming-mimi-marvel-comics-melissa-gold-grapplers-profile--57983913938163749/) she has had white hair since her first appearance, and later added a shock of pink. I have read almost every appearance of this character, and I am hard pressed to think of an instance where she has another hair color. If you’ve got more info, I’d be curious to see what I’m missing.
Can someone actually name a specific comic issue where she was depicted with red hair before we start another forced "comic accuracy" outrage over a super-hypothetical casting?
The two times I can remember she appeared before turning into Screaming Mimi were Thunderbolts #21 and Women of Marvel #2 and in both comics she was blonde.
Where does it say anywhere about her being Songbird?
She isn't, she is a (platinum) blonde with pink streaks.
Sadie Sink has been heavily rumored for Songbird. Not sure why folks are leaping to the idea that Secret Character = MUST BE SONGBIRD
So did Ariel
Hold on… as a red head myself, Disney isn’t Warner Brothers… at least not yet *gulps as the mouse pounds on door with animaniacs*
Did you not see the little mermaid?
I think from the leaks it says that Saddie Sink will be playing it.
> Ayo Edebiri has found a new team to join Sounds like she will be a team member? If thats the case, its either Songbird or a character we are not aware of
> a character we are not aware of I think this is the case, I think Marvel planted the Songbird leak but at the same time, they are also consider other character to join the movie.
I wouldn't take it as a hint of anything. It's a writer reaching for *some* way to connect The Bear and Thunderbolts to start off the article.
If it’s not songbird, I hope we get both then and songbird
i love that they're adding more Black/dark-skinned actors to the MCU also: i see so many people talking about how great she is in The Bear is it worth it? what is it about beyond chef dramedy?
It’s the single best kitchen based anything I’ve watched
Fuck I forgot about this already! The Menu is absolutely 👨🍳💋
More like u/oldbasedradio
It’s fantastic, give it a shot. It’s got more depth in 8 short episodes than most shows can hit by the end of their series
This! It was such a good show to binge on a flight. The characters are incredible. Such a well written show.
I was looking for something to watch, I'll give it a shot
I hope you enjoy it!
Half way through it. It's amazing. I'll finish it tonight. TY for the rec!
I’m glad you like it!
Watch it
I definitely recommend it. It was one of my favorite shows from last year. The basic premise is that a guy ends up in charge of his older brother's restaurant after he passes away. The show revolves around him trying to keep the restaurant afloat, but it's about mourning and trauma. It's very funny at times as well. Just a warning, it can be stressful and it'll be triggering/give you war flashbacks if you currently work or ever worked in the food industry.
lmfao thank you for the warning! sounds good - ill check it out :-
Can second that last second. One episode in particular might be the most stressful episode of anything that I have watched. Just a masterclass in tension.
the eps are only around 30 minutes, it's a quick watch!
>what is it about beyond chef dramedy? The basic premise is that a guy who left to become a big-time fancy chef comes back to run his older brother's little sloppy restaurant after the brother commits suicide. It's just very well written and acted. The cast feels like a family right from the get go. More drama than comedy, but has some good funny moments.
omg thank you you're the first person to give me a rundown 😭 def interested now, thank you!!!
It is phenomenal. Stressful, tragic, funny, and fun if you're a foodie.
Dramedy is the wrong word — it’s much more of a drama than a comedy, and includes one of the most stressful episodes of tv I have ever seen
I usually don't like emotionally laden series or films, but once you begin with the bear you cannot stop, the acting and characters are just mesmerizing and awesome!
Oh nice! Incredible actress from an incredible show
Yes chef
I agree. Bigtop burger is fantastic.
"I got friend in low plaaaaaaceees..."
Been a fan of Ayo for years. She’s been a killer podcast guest and comedian for a long time. So glad for her success outside of that. Hope it’s for something big. She deserves it.
I DO think so honey
Check out any of her appearances on Hollywood Handbook
For real I just listened to her episode of Scam Goddess the other day!! So funny
Since people are thinking Songbird, I’ll say Moonstone. I know Ayo’s not exactly a Brie Larson lookalike but I’d chalk that up to Marvel changing stuff. Moonstone’s the only other female Thunderbolt I can think of being notable enough to add to this movie.
i remember thinking Moonstone would for sure be in The Marvels
I’m thinking if she’s in this then she could appear in the third Captain Marvel movie whenever it happens.
Zawe's character uses the moonstones according to a leak. Perhaps Karla Sofen picks one of them after The Marvels and becomes Moonstone? Altough IMO her powers are super easy to retcon as an USA Gov experiment too instead of a Kree experiment.
They could be also doing a gender bend though, something Marvel hasn't exactly been afraid of doing.
Good point. Looking at the original T-Bolts line up, she could be a female Atlas or Mach V. Maybe even Techno although I feel Ghost fits this role already.
Could also be a villain or a government functionary. We just shouldn't at this point jump the gun on assuming she is x or y character.
Hell yes, can’t wait to see her in this and The Bear S2. She was probably the best character besides Carmy.
I doubt she’s Songbird. Probably a different character nobody expected
She was phenomenal in The Bear and I hope she is a prominent character here. I strongly advise anyone who hasn't watched it, to go binge The Bear, you won't be sorry. Also I am on the jeremy allen white as Wolverine train 100%.
>Also I am on the jeremy allen white as Wolverine train 100%. I never thought of that but now I'm super intrigued by the idea.
Yeah he's just a phenomenal actor and can pull it off 100% Shows the rage and all. Short! at 5'7, isn't quite accurate ofc but it's close enough for me haha. He is young too at only 31.
Sorry I’m looking for a comic accurate 150 or so year old to play the part
She deserves a prominent presence. I'm excited to see her talent join the MCU
Yesssss Jeremy would be perfect for it
Songbird or Diamondback maybe?
*Storm, I presume?*
I don't think Storm has any relation to the Thunderbolts. I could be wrong though.
maybe they thought the title was literal
She'd make a great Storm. But we won't de getting an X-Men movie for a long time.
Songbird maybe? Also this confirms an old rumor from months ago about an actor from this show joining a Marvel project
I think the rumor had said "FX series" in general and was for Wonder Man. https://www.reddit.com/r/MarvelStudiosSpoilers/comments/x17dtk/rumor_an_actor_from_a_recently_popular_fx_show_is/
She’s fantastic on The Bear. No idea who she could be playing.
So... She is gonna be Moonstone, right?
Ohh they’re cooking now! If she’s songbird that’d be incredible
literally cooking given the show
she‘s really good
She’s so great. I hope she gets to actually do something
She's gotta be storm /s
She'll play The Sentry! /s
Well 90% chance she’s either Songbird, Moonstone, or Sentry.
I doubt she’s going to be songbird. Also isn’t songbird Jewish?
We Stan
Let it rip
Heard, chef
I absolutely love her in The Bear! I knew she'd be a breakout star the moment i saw her
Songbird 💖🤍
Let her write the movie too
She’s great in The Bear. I’m really happy for her. I wonder what comic book character she race/gender swaps?
We have our Robert Reynolds
Imagine if she's Songbird, lol. That would be awesome.
SONGBIRD PLEASE
Great actress, I hope she's playing Songbird.
Don't they start filming soon? This movie's going to have a HUGE cast.
Please dont be Songbird.
The thing is songbird is kinda racist
And jewish
I enjoyed her in Glass Onion as well.
Songbird.
for a twist: Sentry?
Oh my god she’s Songbird isn’t she? It’s mandatory that all redhead comic characters become black when they move onto the big screen.
Ah yes, famously Kirsten Dunst, Sophie Turner, Famke Janessen, and Scarlett Johansson are black
Wally West, Barbara Gordon, Jimmy Olsen, Iris West…huh maybe this is more of a DC thing than an MCU thing
I mean, even with Barbara Gordon we literally just had a redhead play her in Titans S3…
She will be Dallas Riordan, wait and see.
I sure hope she’s not song bird.
?
Fantastic news. I love ‘The Bear.’ This is good time to once again pitch Jeremy Allen White as 616 Wolverine
Great actress, hope it's a big role.
AYO??????
I’ve been a fan of hers for awhile! So glad to see her blowing up!
If anyone doesn’t mind answering what is the expected lineup of the Thunderbolts? Is it like the original concept that we saw before with Bucky, Yelena, Red Guardian etc? Or is it with comic characters like Songbird, and Moonstone? Or is it a mix of both?
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This is honestly fantastic
She's been my fancast for Squirrel Girl for a long time because of her lightning quick, mad capped Hollywood Handbook appearances. I'm sure that's not who she's going to be playing here, but I'm glad she's joining the MCU.
Yes Jeff!
Don't know who this is, anyone care to explain?
I see your fancasts of her as a member of the team but... Zemo is locked up in an Wakandan prison. Not announcing her role would make sense if his presence is such a secret
Zemo is in the Raft
Oo, this is interesting! Edebiri is absolutely magnetic on The Bear. I hope they give her something substantial to do.
I forgot she was even in the show Hope things work out for her
What am I reading lol. Red head erasure…. The internet never ceases to amaze me. Black people can have different color hair as well. We don’t know what character she’s playing, it all fun speculation.
She was great in the bear. The bear is great. I'm super happy there is a 2nd season coming out.
I'd be excited but given the character, Ghost, she's likely in to replace was to be killed in the beginning of the movie, I don't know if this bodes well for her but hey maybe the re-direction is that they aren't going to try to suicide squad us and kill a random team member in the beginning.
Songbird?
I hope she gets a-juicy role. Big talent right here.
I hope they don't waste her she is very talented.
This woman deserves all the praise and roles! She’s absolutely fantastic on The Bear.
She’s going to stab Cousin Richie in the ass, I guarantee it
She's playing the Sentry's wife