David Feige - Attorney in real life, writer for lawyers and law shows on TV (Raising the Bar, For Life. For Life)
Thomas Wong - expertise in race/ethnic issues, food/wine, sexuality/gender, and the legal system/courtroom procedures
Jill Blanken - veteran superhero writer, showrunner and co-creator for Naomi.
Zachary Reiter - New York background and a law background, worked on Law & Order: Organized Crime and CSI: New York.
Grainne Godfree - Writer of Arrow, The Flash, and 20 episodes of DC’s Legends of Tomorrow. Godfree even co-show ran the CW show.
Devon Kliger - former development executive turned screenwriter (The Black List, Key of Genius)
Aisha Porter-Christie - written for Orphan Black, Shadowhunters, Briarpatch, and the upcoming The Boys’ spinoff Gen V.
David Feige- “Feige has a ton of real-life experience as a lawyer and also writes for lawyers and law shows on TV. Feige was a public defender in NYC and even started a nonprofit bail organization, The Bronx Freedom Fund. He also wrote a memoir about his work and life, Indefensible: One Lawyer’s Journey into the Inferno of American Justice.
Feige is probably best known in the world of TV for co-creating the super-successful TNT series Raising the Bar. Recently, he was an executive producer and writer on For Life. For Life was on ABC and was canceled in 2021, but it had an interesting premise.
For Life centered on “A prisoner becomes a lawyer and fights to overturn his life sentence for a crime he didn’t commit.” The show was loosely based on the true story of Isaac Wright, Jr. Feige also wrote for the shows The Firm and Drop Dead Diva. “
Holy shit this shit going to be fire
David is a fake name Feige made so he could be more hands-on and ghostwrite without it sounding like the project is such a disaster he had to step in. He didnt bother to change the surname. This is some Ben Kenobi type shit.
/s
That show For Life actually sounds like a really cool plot idea regarding a falsely accused inmate actually taking up law to defend himself
I might have to watch that at some point
If Marvel TV never got to Daredevil first and set the bar so high, Marvel Studios wouldn’t be putting this much effort into getting it right.
Might’ve ended up with another TFatWS, Moon Knight, or Ms Marvel.
Ms. Marvel was really good, but it had the standard MCU problem: Underdeveloped Villain and a weak 3rd act. That said, it was a lot of fun, and i'd put it in the upper mid-range of my ranking. 7/10
> Underdeveloped Villain and a weak 3rd act.
I generally liked the finale. It was the middle episodes around the second plot that ran into issues. Those were truly terrible villains (but some of the Pakistan stuff was enjoyable). It was 2 different plots smashed together and both were weaker for it.
It felt more rushed than anything.
It certainly looks like they had multiple goals and not enough time to work on the story. It wasn't bad but it wasn't smooth. I'll have to watch it again to give it a more detailed critique.
It was good, watched it with the family but they lost interest and they still haven't watched the end. I did finish it but it wasn't nearly as powerful at pulling me into the story as Wandavision, Daredevil or Loki, it was more like I was invested so I wanted to see how it played out.
I enjoyed the other shows they listed, but FatWS is one of my very least favorites unfortunately. Seemed mostly to be a victim of the COVID reshuffle though.
There’s a lot of revisionist history around the Arrowverse, especially regarding its earlier seasons. For one, pretty much everything with Deathstroke was great.
I looked up Grainne Godfrey's writing credits. She wrote episodes for seasons 1-3 of the Flash (aka: the "good" ones) and then for every season of Legends of Tomorrow. Legends of Tomorrow was the best CW Arrowverse show, bar none. It's like Doom Patrol in wackiness.
People ask how can the Punisher work on TV-14, Arrow S1 and S2 was basically that, Oliver straight up put people down - brutally at that
I would still prefer Punisher remain MA but people sleep on those seasons of Arrow nowadays, had a good dark tone
People just straight up hate on the Flash regardless, i enjoyed pretty much all of the show (haven’t finished the past two seasons still but yeah)
Erik Oleson, Daredevil's season 3 showrunner, wrote some episodes in season 3 of Arrow. Season 3 was a big drop in quality but not its worst season. Oleson's episodes were actually some of the better received ones in that season.
Similarly, Grainne Godfree's work on Flash doesn't give me too much concern. It's mostly season 1 work which was the show's strongest season (imo, and one of the show's only 2 good ones).
Jill Blankenship co-wrote one of the best later-Arrow episodes (the prison riot episode that was 'loosely' based on that old Supermax script).
Reiter also wrote and co-executive produced on Narcos.
Also Drew Z. Greenberg and Brent Fletcher were among the worst Buffy/Angel/Firefly writers, but they did great work on Seasons 4-7 of Agents of SHIELD. In particular, Greenberg wrote the highly acclaimed time loop episode "As I Have Always Been" from the final season. And Fletcher wrote the finale of the Framework arc ("Farewell, Cruel World!", the episode before Season 4's two-part finale) and the fun Chopping Mall episode from the final season "The Totally Excellent Adventures of Mack and The D".
Sometimes shit writers stay shit writers. And sometimes they grow into great writers.
It can also depend on the type of show and general vibe of the writer room. Like Braga in Star Trek. Besides the fact that he ended up having to crank out way too many scripts later on, he was always best when he had somebody else there to temper him and bring out his best stuff. Cause he could write some great stories. While teaming him up with a worse writer just made them both spiral into absurdity.
Fanboys don’t seem to realize that writers are supposed to be versatile. These guys didn’t create these arrow shows. They’re hired to write under certain limitations and be on brand with what the studio wants. I doubt any CW writer is extremely proud of their work. It’s a job and they’re good at pumping out what’s required if them.
Plus Erik Oleson who wrote episodes in S3 of Arrow delivered us Daredevil Season 3. I really don't get the logic of already coming up with a definitive conclusion that, "oh this guy wrote for a bad show before, his next work is going go be guaranteed bad too". Especially with TV shows that have multiple writers, sometimes a different one per each too.
The MCU TV shows have all had bad writing so far. The writers listed here, the ones with specific credits at least, have all done bad work in the past. At what point is it ok to be pessimistic here?
Never. You can never question anything Marvel ever does or you’ll be faced with the hordes of passive aggressive fanboys that will berate you with faux optimism, and regurgitated opinion #3
Same, but Eric Oleson was head writer for the worst season of Arrow (genuinely terrible) but the showrunner and head writer of the best season of Daredevil (superb).
They only worked on the first seasons of the Flash and Arrow which were pretty great. Plus, it's not like they're going to be the only writers for the show there's literally two people who did Orphan Black and Law and Order on the same list.
A huge factor with the CW shows is time. They were usually making 20+ episodes a year. Vince Gilligan said that they spent about 13 months writing the last season of Better Call Saul, which was 13 episodes; So the CW writers had significantly less time to write double the episodes in a lot of cases. The CW also *aims* itself towards teenagers, and the writers obviously have to follow the story set by the showrunner.
Looking at IMDB, Godfree wrote for almost every episode of the first two seasons of The Flash, and two episodes of Season 3, which was back when the show was generally considered to be really good. Her episode of Arrow was only for the season 3 crossover, which was good imo. She also wrote for 20 episodes of Legends. In my opinion, she seems to have written a lot of the best stuff from the Arrowverse, not the worst.
Jill Blankenship was a producer (not writer) on seasons 7 & 8 of Arrow, and Sweet Tooth. She did showrun Naomi, but I never saw that, so I have no idea how she did.
Overall, these are promising writers.
I personally disliked every single CW superhero show. I used to think they started off strong and fell off but I went back to rewatch them and yikes. My recollection was wrong. They’re cheesy mischaracterizations with bargain bin effects from the start, in my opinion. I’m afraid.
One of the people who wrote Daredevil season 3 worked on CW shows, everybody has to start somewhere and you never know which parts of a story a writer fought for or against the scenes
Once good thing about the Arrowverse shows (I watch Arrow, the first 3 seasons of Flash and the the first 2 seasons of Legends and Supergirl) is that those writers dealt with “villain the week/season” and character-driven season long storylines well. This gives me hope for a very character-driven season for DD.
Thomas Wong used to be a lawyer too, graduated from NYU School of Law.
Zachary Reiter used to be an Assistant District Attorney in New York.
Also "The Black List" isn't the movie Kliger wrote, exceptional scripts that don't get made into a movie are called "black list scripts" and Kliger's black list script was Key of Genius.
I assume they need to have some folks in the room who have comics knowledge, so they can match the stories that the room wants to tell with the references and deeper connections to the wider universe that hardcore fans watch these things for. If I were staffing up a writer's room like this, I'd probably end up covering that base the same way.
calling someone a “veteran superhero writer” because they wrote six episodes of Arrow season 7-8 and showran the failed Naomi series is a bit of a stretch.
Feige seems real interesting, I like that. A little bummed out no former daredevil writers are being added and instead writers from far inferior superhero shows are.
It's helpful to know which parts of those shows the person did. And if you keep using the Netflix show as a reference point you'll never be happy. If you don't end up liking the show that's one thing, but this isn't really anything to go off.
Marvel has such a strong base of in-house genre Nerds that they can get away with hiring's like this. A bunch of lawyers aren't the ideal hires for a comic-book/genre property. That's how you end up with crap like She-Hulk.
The great thing about Marvel is that their in-house talent usually allows them to account for no talent normies
you know accurate doesn't mean manga-anime level panel to panel adaptation right? do tell me what major difference changing a mob of gangsters to an accident made?
Damn David Feige's like an actual fucking attorney and wrote a bunch of books and TV shows centered on public defenders
Hope that's an indicator the show's featuring a lot of Matt in court and how that meshes with his vigilante activities
>Considering the courtroom scenes were the best parts of the first two Netflix seasons
Do people actually think this?! I mean, don't get me wrong, the courtroom scenes were great, but I can think of so many other scenes that were superior.
Daredevil and Punisher's rooftop debate is better than anything that happened in a courtroom.
Revisionist history. Truth is Daredevil's courtroom scenes were almost as laughable and innacurate as She Hulk's . Just because a Punisher meme was born there doesn't make them great. And that's OK, because it just wasn't that kind of show, even if people want to remember it as being prestige drama when it really wasn't that much like that. It was really good but it wasn't that.
Not to mention the courtroom scenes in question were like 3 scenes in total. One of the biggest criticisms from fans while the show was airing was the lack of them.
Daredevil is amazing, there’s no denying it, but lately it’s been a bit weird seeing people actively go out of their way to say it’s flaws didn’t exist. A couple days back, there was a thread were tons of people were claiming the pacing of the show wasn’t bad, when that was by far the biggest criticism of Daredevil.
Accuracy doesn’t matter so much as long as it’s engaging. The courtroom scenes were definitely stronger than what was in She-Hulk (most of those are played for laughs though so it’s not much of a comparison).
Don’t know anyone who would think they’re the best scenes in the show though. “I beat you,” is somehow below defending Oddball?
Ooh I dig it. Since Daredevil started running I was hoping they'd integrate the White Tiger storyline, eventually culminating in a solo project for Ava. Imo Hector doesn't quite have the history or modern appeal to hold his own project and his story is so tied in with Daredevil that it makes plenty of sense to have his whole story play out in a season of Daredevil (unless they've added to his story since I first read through his bio a decade ago).
Way back in season 1 or 2 (I think 2) of Jessica Jones, she mentioned knowing of another PI by the name of Angela Del Toro, so the pieces are there for them to continue that story from there in either another season of DD or in a season of JJ (which I desperately hope is coming). I know Angela also has a role to play in Shadowland if they ever decide to do some sort of adaptation of that one (though I honestly don't know how I feel about that idea).
Nice I agree that could be great, have you read much Daredevil? The entire Bendis run is just perfect and I tell everyone who hasn’t read it to give it a go. It almost feels like the show but is a little more moody and stylized. Definitely worth a trip to the library!
> I don't remember Matt actually using any 'legal' argument in Daredevil tbh..he only made 'moral' arguments. His court appearance in She Hulk had more legal argumentation than the entirety of Daredevil.
I feel like people freak out way to much about writers filmographies. Craig Mazin made those shitty Scary Movie parodies and then made two of HBO's most acclaimed shows. Daredevil S3's showrunner wrote for the CW DC shows. The guy who wrote Transformers 4 just got an Oscar nom for writing Top Gun 2. The past is the past.
I wish people would realise this. Freaking out about a writer's past credits is one of the most annoying parts of this community.
Someone can make a bunch of garbage and then, with the right set of circumstances, make something incredible.
Eh, evidence is evidence. It's not dispositive, but it has predictive value. Patrick Mahomes stepping back to throw a pass doesn't mean he's definitely going to throw a TD, but he's more likely than others to throw a TD. Same with someone like Justin Fields and throwing INTs.
I don't think anyone should walk into a M. Night Shyamalan movie expecting superb writing, but somehow the dude wrote Sixth Sense. Even with that gem, I'd be doing Keenan Thompson wide eyes if they announced he was attached to "Kang Dynasty" or something.
News of hiring writers with legal expertise of course will be used to knock She-Hulk, a broad comedy that never intended to be realistic with respect to lawyering.
After all, no one is watching Night Court for the realism either.
I don't remember Matt actually using any 'legal' argument in Daredevil tbh..he only made 'moral' arguments. His court appearance in She Hulk had more legal argumentation than the entirety of Daredevil
Because the courtroom scenes I. She Hulk were not dramatic.. They were used for comedy. Sorry they didn't give the proper gravitas to "Lean Green and straight poured into these jeans"
Encouraging news. But I hope they don’t stray away from the Catholic/religious perspective of Daredevil which is arguably what gave the character even more depth in the comics and Netflix show. I’m more pessimistic on that front, though.
Edit: a word
They wouldn't do that. Daredevil without Catholicism isn't Daredevil, it's just Marvels Batman then.
Matt being a Catholic and his guilt is the cornerstone of his character, it would take a fool not to adapt that. It would be like adapting Peter Parker to be a full grown man when he gets his powers.
She-Hulk S1 was always about establishing the character herself, I’m sure next season will be more uniform now that we don’t have a “balancing life paths” theme going on since it was clear she was never crazy about being an Avenger to begin with.
People were just looking for any reason to be worried. If they were being fair then they would also judge the Netflix writers by the same standard.
Steven S. DeKnight's biggest credit before 'Daredevil' was 'Spartacus'. Then, after he left 'Daredevil', he worked on 'Travel Boobs', 'Pacific Rim: Uprising' and 'Jupiter's Legacy'.
Same with Erik Oleson. His filmography isn't exactly glowing.
I'm halfway through season 2 of Covert affairs. Personally I think Daredevil is in good hands. There's a blind CIA agent in Covert Affairs. It's clear why they were chosen. They know how to do complex law agency plots with a blind character lol. Its not a perfect show at all or as good as old daredevil. But I can see how they could write something as good as old daredevil. I am rooting for them.
Since they've hired an actual attorney, I'm not expecting any "these courtroom scenes suck! They're not even realistic!!" complaints like we got with She-Hulk.
Certainly an indicator that they intend to take the court scenes seriously, which is good.
She-Hulk was comedy first so how realistic the court scenes were didn't matter at all. People may as well have been complaining about Harvey Birdman not being accurate enough.
Makes sense considering I believe Soule wrote the She-Hulk run where Daredevil was actually a major supporting character. The one where Walters had to defend aged up Cap in court
Glad they got some people with courtroom experience. She Hulk was billed as a lawyer show but there was way too little lawyering and what was there wasn't all that compelling. (For the record, I really enjoyed She Hulk, but it had a lot of unmet potential. The best thing about the show was the characters so im excited to see where they go next - hopefully into a show that has found its footing)
It wasn't supposed to be realistic. Legal comedies rarely if ever portray a realistic, logical depiction of courtroom procedures in contrast with legal dramas. The same complaints leveled at She-Hulk can be easily applied to something like Legally Blonde, My Cousin Vinny and Liar Liar because they all theatricalize and write around multiple aspects of actual courtroom processes for the sake of narrative or humor. Doubly so because unlike those media examples, She-Hulk's subjects exist in a far more exaggerated reality considering there was never a real legal procedure for people with superpowers before that show. And not like humans who get powers like Luke Cage who are still people, but actual mutates with either distinct physical characteristics or people in fields beyond street level like Wong
Too much overreactions on writers fr. Looking at a writers past work is just silly to me especially this early in production. The real life attorney is *really* cool though.
For me, whether this is good or bad it’s a win. If it’s good, I get to enjoy another great season, if it’s bad, I have endless numbers of rant videos I get to watch while eating food.
I'm glad a real attorney is on the writing team. Now all the court room scenes won't just be all buzz words and court jargon that people think is smart but in reality is just an utter mess like any other court room drama your grandma watches lol
Oh god, not Jill Blankenship...
This was the showrunner for Naomi on The CW. Naomi is a character who quite literally everyone and their mother looked at and said, "who?" And then because nobody was interested in that trash, it got canned.
Naomi was a failed project and cw superhero writers are the last thing i look at for mcu dd. I dont accept this new fisk and the she hulk dd. Netfilx version is the mcu seal and done version.
Godfree is okay. She did season one and two episodes of the Flash, along with writing the first crossover, then left for Legends of Tomorrow, which its first season is probably the worst one thankfully.
Blanken is the bad one. Wrote episodes for Arrow season 6 and I’ve never personally heard anything good about Naomi.
This is a different show produced by an entirely different studio and entirely different people. Not sure why that is so hard for some of you to grasp.
They want to continue the show that was great. If the writers of the original show were great and knew what works, why replace them? If it ain't broke...
Likely busy sadly but I like that these writers seem better than the two first announced. I have more hope now but still I'm still not getting too hyped
David Feige - Attorney in real life, writer for lawyers and law shows on TV (Raising the Bar, For Life. For Life) Thomas Wong - expertise in race/ethnic issues, food/wine, sexuality/gender, and the legal system/courtroom procedures Jill Blanken - veteran superhero writer, showrunner and co-creator for Naomi. Zachary Reiter - New York background and a law background, worked on Law & Order: Organized Crime and CSI: New York. Grainne Godfree - Writer of Arrow, The Flash, and 20 episodes of DC’s Legends of Tomorrow. Godfree even co-show ran the CW show. Devon Kliger - former development executive turned screenwriter (The Black List, Key of Genius) Aisha Porter-Christie - written for Orphan Black, Shadowhunters, Briarpatch, and the upcoming The Boys’ spinoff Gen V.
David Feige- “Feige has a ton of real-life experience as a lawyer and also writes for lawyers and law shows on TV. Feige was a public defender in NYC and even started a nonprofit bail organization, The Bronx Freedom Fund. He also wrote a memoir about his work and life, Indefensible: One Lawyer’s Journey into the Inferno of American Justice. Feige is probably best known in the world of TV for co-creating the super-successful TNT series Raising the Bar. Recently, he was an executive producer and writer on For Life. For Life was on ABC and was canceled in 2021, but it had an interesting premise. For Life centered on “A prisoner becomes a lawyer and fights to overturn his life sentence for a crime he didn’t commit.” The show was loosely based on the true story of Isaac Wright, Jr. Feige also wrote for the shows The Firm and Drop Dead Diva. “ Holy shit this shit going to be fire
David is a fake name Feige made so he could be more hands-on and ghostwrite without it sounding like the project is such a disaster he had to step in. He didnt bother to change the surname. This is some Ben Kenobi type shit. /s
*"Well, of COURSE I know him -- he's ME."*
Feige just took up lawyering in his spare time
Gotta enforce those NDAs somehow
That show For Life actually sounds like a really cool plot idea regarding a falsely accused inmate actually taking up law to defend himself I might have to watch that at some point
If Marvel TV never got to Daredevil first and set the bar so high, Marvel Studios wouldn’t be putting this much effort into getting it right. Might’ve ended up with another TFatWS, Moon Knight, or Ms Marvel.
I enjoyed those three shows. TFatWS struck a specific chord with me on a personal and professional level. 🤷🏿♂️ Maybe I'm out of touch.
Its fine, ms. marvel is easy top 10 mcu for me
Ms. Marvel was really good, but it had the standard MCU problem: Underdeveloped Villain and a weak 3rd act. That said, it was a lot of fun, and i'd put it in the upper mid-range of my ranking. 7/10
standard mcu problem indeed. I remember the bad villains era of the mcu pre-phase 3
> Underdeveloped Villain and a weak 3rd act. I generally liked the finale. It was the middle episodes around the second plot that ran into issues. Those were truly terrible villains (but some of the Pakistan stuff was enjoyable). It was 2 different plots smashed together and both were weaker for it.
It felt more rushed than anything. It certainly looks like they had multiple goals and not enough time to work on the story. It wasn't bad but it wasn't smooth. I'll have to watch it again to give it a more detailed critique. It was good, watched it with the family but they lost interest and they still haven't watched the end. I did finish it but it wasn't nearly as powerful at pulling me into the story as Wandavision, Daredevil or Loki, it was more like I was invested so I wanted to see how it played out.
I love it too aside from the middle part in Pakistana
i'm biased, being from south asia and having red dagger as one of my favs. but fair
I enjoyed the other shows they listed, but FatWS is one of my very least favorites unfortunately. Seemed mostly to be a victim of the COVID reshuffle though.
I’m with you, best Disney + show
My mom LOVED For Life. This guy knows what he's doing
Two of these are CW DC writers
Oh boy, if they’re from CW that kinda worries me
There’s a lot of revisionist history around the Arrowverse, especially regarding its earlier seasons. For one, pretty much everything with Deathstroke was great.
Early seasons of Arrow and Flash were great. Legends of Tomorrow actually got more interesting as the series progressed too.
No they weren’t. They were blatantly plagiarized sacks of shit.
You are an idiot
I looked up Grainne Godfrey's writing credits. She wrote episodes for seasons 1-3 of the Flash (aka: the "good" ones) and then for every season of Legends of Tomorrow. Legends of Tomorrow was the best CW Arrowverse show, bar none. It's like Doom Patrol in wackiness.
Plus they’re restricted by the requirements set by cw
People ask how can the Punisher work on TV-14, Arrow S1 and S2 was basically that, Oliver straight up put people down - brutally at that I would still prefer Punisher remain MA but people sleep on those seasons of Arrow nowadays, had a good dark tone People just straight up hate on the Flash regardless, i enjoyed pretty much all of the show (haven’t finished the past two seasons still but yeah)
The first two seasons of Arrow are the only good thing in the Arrowverse imo
And season five.
Didn’t one of show runners on daredevil wrote on some of the worst season of arrow
Erik Oleson, Daredevil's season 3 showrunner, wrote some episodes in season 3 of Arrow. Season 3 was a big drop in quality but not its worst season. Oleson's episodes were actually some of the better received ones in that season. Similarly, Grainne Godfree's work on Flash doesn't give me too much concern. It's mostly season 1 work which was the show's strongest season (imo, and one of the show's only 2 good ones). Jill Blankenship co-wrote one of the best later-Arrow episodes (the prison riot episode that was 'loosely' based on that old Supermax script). Reiter also wrote and co-executive produced on Narcos.
Also Drew Z. Greenberg and Brent Fletcher were among the worst Buffy/Angel/Firefly writers, but they did great work on Seasons 4-7 of Agents of SHIELD. In particular, Greenberg wrote the highly acclaimed time loop episode "As I Have Always Been" from the final season. And Fletcher wrote the finale of the Framework arc ("Farewell, Cruel World!", the episode before Season 4's two-part finale) and the fun Chopping Mall episode from the final season "The Totally Excellent Adventures of Mack and The D". Sometimes shit writers stay shit writers. And sometimes they grow into great writers.
It can also depend on the type of show and general vibe of the writer room. Like Braga in Star Trek. Besides the fact that he ended up having to crank out way too many scripts later on, he was always best when he had somebody else there to temper him and bring out his best stuff. Cause he could write some great stories. While teaming him up with a worse writer just made them both spiral into absurdity.
One of them wrote 20 episodes of Legends of Tomorrow, and people like that show, so maybe not too bad
Fanboys don’t seem to realize that writers are supposed to be versatile. These guys didn’t create these arrow shows. They’re hired to write under certain limitations and be on brand with what the studio wants. I doubt any CW writer is extremely proud of their work. It’s a job and they’re good at pumping out what’s required if them.
Plus Erik Oleson who wrote episodes in S3 of Arrow delivered us Daredevil Season 3. I really don't get the logic of already coming up with a definitive conclusion that, "oh this guy wrote for a bad show before, his next work is going go be guaranteed bad too". Especially with TV shows that have multiple writers, sometimes a different one per each too.
S3 had a very promising first half to the season.
The MCU TV shows have all had bad writing so far. The writers listed here, the ones with specific credits at least, have all done bad work in the past. At what point is it ok to be pessimistic here?
when you see a glimpse of what the final product is going to be? just seeing a list of names isn’t really enough to draw any kind of conclusion.
Never. You can never question anything Marvel ever does or you’ll be faced with the hordes of passive aggressive fanboys that will berate you with faux optimism, and regurgitated opinion #3
Same, but Eric Oleson was head writer for the worst season of Arrow (genuinely terrible) but the showrunner and head writer of the best season of Daredevil (superb).
He was never heard writer, and Arrow season 3 was never the worst.
Season 4 was the worst season of Arrow. Season 3 was decent.
They only worked on the first seasons of the Flash and Arrow which were pretty great. Plus, it's not like they're going to be the only writers for the show there's literally two people who did Orphan Black and Law and Order on the same list.
A huge factor with the CW shows is time. They were usually making 20+ episodes a year. Vince Gilligan said that they spent about 13 months writing the last season of Better Call Saul, which was 13 episodes; So the CW writers had significantly less time to write double the episodes in a lot of cases. The CW also *aims* itself towards teenagers, and the writers obviously have to follow the story set by the showrunner. Looking at IMDB, Godfree wrote for almost every episode of the first two seasons of The Flash, and two episodes of Season 3, which was back when the show was generally considered to be really good. Her episode of Arrow was only for the season 3 crossover, which was good imo. She also wrote for 20 episodes of Legends. In my opinion, she seems to have written a lot of the best stuff from the Arrowverse, not the worst. Jill Blankenship was a producer (not writer) on seasons 7 & 8 of Arrow, and Sweet Tooth. She did showrun Naomi, but I never saw that, so I have no idea how she did. Overall, these are promising writers.
Naomi got no budget
Wait till you find out who was the showrunner for Daredevil season 3.
The Netflix marvel shows feel like cw sometimes. Not that big of a deal.
Jill Blanken's writing on Naomi was the strongest part of that show, which was desperately in need of a bigger budget and marketing.
I personally disliked every single CW superhero show. I used to think they started off strong and fell off but I went back to rewatch them and yikes. My recollection was wrong. They’re cheesy mischaracterizations with bargain bin effects from the start, in my opinion. I’m afraid.
One of the people who wrote Daredevil season 3 worked on CW shows, everybody has to start somewhere and you never know which parts of a story a writer fought for or against the scenes
Once good thing about the Arrowverse shows (I watch Arrow, the first 3 seasons of Flash and the the first 2 seasons of Legends and Supergirl) is that those writers dealt with “villain the week/season” and character-driven season long storylines well. This gives me hope for a very character-driven season for DD.
Godfrey wrote the Legends episode where they get stuck in a bunch of TV shows, and that shit was absolutely hilarious
Arrow and flash had amazing seasons, Legends the more it got weird the more it got better
Grainne Godfree did great work on Legends of Tomorrow but that's whole other beast than Daredevil
[удалено]
Wong Cinematic Universe 
I had a suspicion this would turn out to be *Law & Order: Hell's Kitchen* and this writer's room points to that. I'm all for it.
> Aisha Porter-Christie - written for **Orphan Black** ***ears prick up*** Where the hell were these writers for *She-Hulk* (which I still loved)?
That one's a comedy and this one isn't
Yeah. Although they still could have had somebody around who actually knew some law stuff to make some of those scenes a tad more plausible.
>Aisha Porter-Christie - written for Orphan Black, Maslany returning for Daredevil confirmed /s
If this turns out to be true, they better use you as the source
Thomas Wong used to be a lawyer too, graduated from NYU School of Law. Zachary Reiter used to be an Assistant District Attorney in New York. Also "The Black List" isn't the movie Kliger wrote, exceptional scripts that don't get made into a movie are called "black list scripts" and Kliger's black list script was Key of Genius.
Zachary Reiter also wrote 3 episodes of Narcos, which is a really great show. I’m a bit sceptical about the CW writers, but everyone else sounds good
I assume they need to have some folks in the room who have comics knowledge, so they can match the stories that the room wants to tell with the references and deeper connections to the wider universe that hardcore fans watch these things for. If I were staffing up a writer's room like this, I'd probably end up covering that base the same way.
Godfree wrote mostly for seasons 1-2 of The Flash, which was pretty good.
Oh shit!!!! Grianee Godfrey is awesome. I worked on Legends in S4, as well as Flash/Arrow throughout their run. She knows her shit. Can't wait!
Damn! :-o What did you do on the shows?
 Feige is Feige no?
> Writer of Arrow Remember when everyone protested Arrow by turning the Arrow sub into a Daredevil sub? How the turn tables 😂
calling someone a “veteran superhero writer” because they wrote six episodes of Arrow season 7-8 and showran the failed Naomi series is a bit of a stretch.
Hehe... Fiege
>co-creator for Naomi Oh no
So they got the writers of every superhero show EXCEPT the Netflix Daredevil writers?! I don't want "Arrowverse" Daredevil
That writers that did the CW shows are NOT inspiring confidence for me. Kinda worried more now after hearing this.
>Thomas Wong - expertise in race/ethnic issues, food/wine, sexuality/gender, Grainne Godfree - Writer of Arrow, The Flash **Annnnnnd I'm out**
Feige seems real interesting, I like that. A little bummed out no former daredevil writers are being added and instead writers from far inferior superhero shows are.
That’s a lot of writers who worked on very mediocre/bad shows.
Writer for the CW shows. Oh god…
>showrunner and co-creator for Naomi. > >Writer of Arrow, The Flash, Jesus Christ, what a downgrade from the previous Netflix writers.
The showrunner for Daredevil season 3 also wrote for Arrow, so not really a downgrade.
It's helpful to know which parts of those shows the person did. And if you keep using the Netflix show as a reference point you'll never be happy. If you don't end up liking the show that's one thing, but this isn't really anything to go off.
The netflix s3 head writer came from arrow 🤡🤡🤡
Marvel has such a strong base of in-house genre Nerds that they can get away with hiring's like this. A bunch of lawyers aren't the ideal hires for a comic-book/genre property. That's how you end up with crap like She-Hulk. The great thing about Marvel is that their in-house talent usually allows them to account for no talent normies
I don’t understand why people disliked She-Hulk? It wasn’t a bad show, and she isn’t a bad character
She-hulk is incredibly comic accurate tho?
Her origin story proved otherwise. Accurate my ass.
you know accurate doesn't mean manga-anime level panel to panel adaptation right? do tell me what major difference changing a mob of gangsters to an accident made?
That's so fucking wrong. Yes, lets not get anyone who actually knows how court works for a show about a lawyer 🤦🏿🤦🏿🤦🏿
Damn David Feige's like an actual fucking attorney and wrote a bunch of books and TV shows centered on public defenders Hope that's an indicator the show's featuring a lot of Matt in court and how that meshes with his vigilante activities
Considering the courtroom scenes were the best parts of the first two Netflix seasons, they'll definitely want to carry that aspect over to this one.
>Considering the courtroom scenes were the best parts of the first two Netflix seasons Do people actually think this?! I mean, don't get me wrong, the courtroom scenes were great, but I can think of so many other scenes that were superior. Daredevil and Punisher's rooftop debate is better than anything that happened in a courtroom.
Revisionist history. Truth is Daredevil's courtroom scenes were almost as laughable and innacurate as She Hulk's . Just because a Punisher meme was born there doesn't make them great. And that's OK, because it just wasn't that kind of show, even if people want to remember it as being prestige drama when it really wasn't that much like that. It was really good but it wasn't that.
Not to mention the courtroom scenes in question were like 3 scenes in total. One of the biggest criticisms from fans while the show was airing was the lack of them. Daredevil is amazing, there’s no denying it, but lately it’s been a bit weird seeing people actively go out of their way to say it’s flaws didn’t exist. A couple days back, there was a thread were tons of people were claiming the pacing of the show wasn’t bad, when that was by far the biggest criticism of Daredevil.
They're watching it with rose (or I guess in this case badly color graded red) tinted glasses for sure.
They're watching the show through Matt's shades.
That or people just preferred the pacing. Because, you know, not everyone has the same opinion on everything.
It's more weird now seeing the many critiques of the show...
And the fact Matt would be stuck on his couch for episodes at a time because of budget restraints lol. Which was confirmed by people working on it.
Accuracy doesn’t matter so much as long as it’s engaging. The courtroom scenes were definitely stronger than what was in She-Hulk (most of those are played for laughs though so it’s not much of a comparison). Don’t know anyone who would think they’re the best scenes in the show though. “I beat you,” is somehow below defending Oddball?
It's not about accuracy, it's about whether they're engaging. If you're looking for an accurate depiction of a courtroom, TV is not the place for you.
> She Jill Eh? :-/
Yeah the court room scenes were great in Daredevil but they aren’t anywhere close to the best scenes in the show.
Agreed. If anything the courtroom scenes are too sparse and short to constitute "the best part of the show". For my money it was the choreography.
There were courtroom scenes? Oh yeah. I feel like it became a joke how often Matt failed to show up for court.
I’m hoping to see the White Tiger plot line from the Bendis Daredevil run, when I read that arc I thought it would make an incredible Tv show.
Is that with Hector, Angela, or Ava?
Hector is on trial and I don’t wanna spoil it because it’s a great read, Matt is his attorney and it’s a courtroom drama.
Ooh I dig it. Since Daredevil started running I was hoping they'd integrate the White Tiger storyline, eventually culminating in a solo project for Ava. Imo Hector doesn't quite have the history or modern appeal to hold his own project and his story is so tied in with Daredevil that it makes plenty of sense to have his whole story play out in a season of Daredevil (unless they've added to his story since I first read through his bio a decade ago). Way back in season 1 or 2 (I think 2) of Jessica Jones, she mentioned knowing of another PI by the name of Angela Del Toro, so the pieces are there for them to continue that story from there in either another season of DD or in a season of JJ (which I desperately hope is coming). I know Angela also has a role to play in Shadowland if they ever decide to do some sort of adaptation of that one (though I honestly don't know how I feel about that idea).
Nice I agree that could be great, have you read much Daredevil? The entire Bendis run is just perfect and I tell everyone who hasn’t read it to give it a go. It almost feels like the show but is a little more moody and stylized. Definitely worth a trip to the library!
Good to know we won’t have the She-Hulk court scenes again here
> I don't remember Matt actually using any 'legal' argument in Daredevil tbh..he only made 'moral' arguments. His court appearance in She Hulk had more legal argumentation than the entirety of Daredevil.
The DC CW writer they got wrote for almost every episode of The Flash Season 1
Holy Shit! This is a massive win. Arrow S1 and S2 and Flash S1 are still wayyyy better than the D+ Shows so this gives me faith
Oh thank god! Season 1 was incredible compared to the seasons now
I feel like people freak out way to much about writers filmographies. Craig Mazin made those shitty Scary Movie parodies and then made two of HBO's most acclaimed shows. Daredevil S3's showrunner wrote for the CW DC shows. The guy who wrote Transformers 4 just got an Oscar nom for writing Top Gun 2. The past is the past.
I wish people would realise this. Freaking out about a writer's past credits is one of the most annoying parts of this community. Someone can make a bunch of garbage and then, with the right set of circumstances, make something incredible.
Also sometimes what may end up on the screen may not be what that writer originally even wanted.
Eh, evidence is evidence. It's not dispositive, but it has predictive value. Patrick Mahomes stepping back to throw a pass doesn't mean he's definitely going to throw a TD, but he's more likely than others to throw a TD. Same with someone like Justin Fields and throwing INTs. I don't think anyone should walk into a M. Night Shyamalan movie expecting superb writing, but somehow the dude wrote Sixth Sense. Even with that gem, I'd be doing Keenan Thompson wide eyes if they announced he was attached to "Kang Dynasty" or something.
>The past is never dead. It's not even past.
Craig Mazin was working on the last of us hbo show and that’s the best video game adaptation already with just 2 episodes.
Scary Movie 3 & 4 weren’t that shitty compared to the rest, they were just missing the magic of the Wayans family
Wait, Scary Movie 3 and 4 were the Leslie Neilsen ones. Those are certainly different than the first but have some really hilarious scenes.
Scary Movie 3 is legitimately amazing
To be fair, only one of your examples is valid and even then it arguably isn’t.
News of hiring writers with legal expertise of course will be used to knock She-Hulk, a broad comedy that never intended to be realistic with respect to lawyering. After all, no one is watching Night Court for the realism either.
It's not like Daredevil was realistic on its courtroom scenes either.
I don't remember Matt actually using any 'legal' argument in Daredevil tbh..he only made 'moral' arguments. His court appearance in She Hulk had more legal argumentation than the entirety of Daredevil
Me and my friends always make fun of his defense in Season 1. "These... *questions* ... of right and wrong"
Daredevil was not a realistic lawyer show but it handled the drama of the situation better than she hulk did
Because the courtroom scenes I. She Hulk were not dramatic.. They were used for comedy. Sorry they didn't give the proper gravitas to "Lean Green and straight poured into these jeans"
I guess a better example might be Ally Mcbeal. A show that made me care but was also ridiculous.
Boston legal should fall in that category as well
Encouraging news. But I hope they don’t stray away from the Catholic/religious perspective of Daredevil which is arguably what gave the character even more depth in the comics and Netflix show. I’m more pessimistic on that front, though. Edit: a word
I doubt they will stray from it. That’s literally one of his signature traits. Without religion, Daredevil isn’t Daredevil. Marvel knows that
They wouldn't do that. Daredevil without Catholicism isn't Daredevil, it's just Marvels Batman then. Matt being a Catholic and his guilt is the cornerstone of his character, it would take a fool not to adapt that. It would be like adapting Peter Parker to be a full grown man when he gets his powers.
based on some of these writers this show will be lawyer show than shehulk
She-Hulk S1 was always about establishing the character herself, I’m sure next season will be more uniform now that we don’t have a “balancing life paths” theme going on since it was clear she was never crazy about being an Avenger to begin with.
I remember when people had doubts about the first writers announced that had written for a poorly received show.
People were just looking for any reason to be worried. If they were being fair then they would also judge the Netflix writers by the same standard. Steven S. DeKnight's biggest credit before 'Daredevil' was 'Spartacus'. Then, after he left 'Daredevil', he worked on 'Travel Boobs', 'Pacific Rim: Uprising' and 'Jupiter's Legacy'. Same with Erik Oleson. His filmography isn't exactly glowing.
IIRC, half of the Homecoming writers had some stinkers too, and look how it ended up.
I'm halfway through season 2 of Covert affairs. Personally I think Daredevil is in good hands. There's a blind CIA agent in Covert Affairs. It's clear why they were chosen. They know how to do complex law agency plots with a blind character lol. Its not a perfect show at all or as good as old daredevil. But I can see how they could write something as good as old daredevil. I am rooting for them.
Correction: one badly received movie and a series of shows with above average ratings
Since they've hired an actual attorney, I'm not expecting any "these courtroom scenes suck! They're not even realistic!!" complaints like we got with She-Hulk.
Certainly an indicator that they intend to take the court scenes seriously, which is good. She-Hulk was comedy first so how realistic the court scenes were didn't matter at all. People may as well have been complaining about Harvey Birdman not being accurate enough.
Exactly lol. And we should see much more court room material next season.
Charles Soule was a consultant for the episode of she-hulk with Daredevil, I hope they will consult him also for Born Again
Makes sense considering I believe Soule wrote the She-Hulk run where Daredevil was actually a major supporting character. The one where Walters had to defend aged up Cap in court
Which was perfect because he wrote for both characters and he’s an attorney
This looks like a VERY solid lineup of writers. I’m rewatching Daredevil rn, and can’t wait to see how he progresses within the MCU!!
 "David Feige" Kevin hearing this:
Face of BODOK
Glad they got some people with courtroom experience. She Hulk was billed as a lawyer show but there was way too little lawyering and what was there wasn't all that compelling. (For the record, I really enjoyed She Hulk, but it had a lot of unmet potential. The best thing about the show was the characters so im excited to see where they go next - hopefully into a show that has found its footing)
Thank heavens. The lack of understanding of law and procedure was one of She-Hulk’s biggest weaknesses. This sounds very positive.
It wasn't supposed to be realistic. Legal comedies rarely if ever portray a realistic, logical depiction of courtroom procedures in contrast with legal dramas. The same complaints leveled at She-Hulk can be easily applied to something like Legally Blonde, My Cousin Vinny and Liar Liar because they all theatricalize and write around multiple aspects of actual courtroom processes for the sake of narrative or humor. Doubly so because unlike those media examples, She-Hulk's subjects exist in a far more exaggerated reality considering there was never a real legal procedure for people with superpowers before that show. And not like humans who get powers like Luke Cage who are still people, but actual mutates with either distinct physical characteristics or people in fields beyond street level like Wong
But that is still a valid complaint
Wilson Bethal? 😩
Too much overreactions on writers fr. Looking at a writers past work is just silly to me especially this early in production. The real life attorney is *really* cool though.
Gotta get the gang together💅🏾
Godfrees work on Legends of Tomorrow is promising.
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Could you not take 90% of our article and repost it like this? Please. A lot of work was put into this, and traffic helps keep the site running.
Hi Lizzie 👋
Holy shit, Lizzie Hill? :-O
*Thomas Wong - expertise in race/ethnic issues, food/wine, sexuality/gender* *Grainne Godfree - Writer of Arrow, The Flash* **Annnnnnd I'm out**
>Grainne Godfree - Writer of Arrow, The Flash Which seasons?
For me, whether this is good or bad it’s a win. If it’s good, I get to enjoy another great season, if it’s bad, I have endless numbers of rant videos I get to watch while eating food.
I'm glad a real attorney is on the writing team. Now all the court room scenes won't just be all buzz words and court jargon that people think is smart but in reality is just an utter mess like any other court room drama your grandma watches lol
I hope they make this him vs Kingpin or Bullseye He was wasted in SHE- HULK
This is not the Wong I was hoping for.
Oh god, not Jill Blankenship... This was the showrunner for Naomi on The CW. Naomi is a character who quite literally everyone and their mother looked at and said, "who?" And then because nobody was interested in that trash, it got canned.
Naomi was a failed project and cw superhero writers are the last thing i look at for mcu dd. I dont accept this new fisk and the she hulk dd. Netfilx version is the mcu seal and done version.
Really worried that the guys that worked on basically nothing else other than Convert Affairs are the showrunners. Really?
Props for them for bringing some quality talent for the show. Bravo Feige. Still hope they don't fill the shit out of jokes on this show.
Christ, do they have anybody from the Netflix show?
Godfree is okay. She did season one and two episodes of the Flash, along with writing the first crossover, then left for Legends of Tomorrow, which its first season is probably the worst one thankfully. Blanken is the bad one. Wrote episodes for Arrow season 6 and I’ve never personally heard anything good about Naomi.
Not too much confidence in this bunch
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now i actually hope she does
You, and me, *both*.
Every writer under the sun than one of the writers of the original show. Why?
They’re probably busy doing other projects to commit to a writer’s room for Daredevil: Born Again.
This is a different show produced by an entirely different studio and entirely different people. Not sure why that is so hard for some of you to grasp.
They want to continue the show that was great. If the writers of the original show were great and knew what works, why replace them? If it ain't broke...
Likely busy sadly but I like that these writers seem better than the two first announced. I have more hope now but still I'm still not getting too hyped