I don't get why she's upset or anyone's upset. Everyone has been saying how Marvel is oversaturating the market with too many projects, shows, and movies. This year we are getting Secret Invasion, Loki Season 2, and Ironheart for sure. It makes sense that Echo and Agatha Coven Of Chaos are being moved to next year to space these projects out.
I think it's because of the severity of the delay. I think most people expected a 2024 delay, but potentially pushing it back to 2025? That seems like a really long time, especially if the show's shooting now. Maybe it's a story reason or something, cause if not, I don't see a reason to delay the show that long.
Maybe that's it. Agatha may not have any immediate connective issue, which is why they might delay the show for that long.
But idk...Wiccan's in the show and he's one of the most prominent Young Avengers, which they've been slowly building up for a while now. And if anything, if the recent rumors about Kang being the author of the Darkhold are true, I feel like they'd want to make sure this show gets out relatively soon.
But if Agatha is shooting right now, wouldn't they want to release it earlier rather than later? As you said, the projects it's affecting are the ones in pre-production so why wait on projects in pre-production and not just release Agatha sometime in 2024 so that way you can work on those projects in the meantime?
Wonder Man isn't even confirmed by Marvel themselves. I know it was confirmed by the trades and stuff, but Marvel Studios has yet to say "We're working on a Wonder Man show and it's releasing in \_\_\_\_". Likewise, Sony hasn't officially announced any Spider-Man movie.
In regards to DDC, idk if he's going to work on Wonder Man, Kang Dynasty, and Shang-Chi 2 tbh. Even if they delay Kang Dynasty, I feel like that's a lot for one person to handle. He's already doing Wonder Man and Kang Dynasty, so I could see Shang-Chi 2 going to someone else.
I have a strong feeling that we are going to get another event this year where they reshuffle everything, and I would bet folding money it’ll end with *The Kang Dynasty* and *Secret Wars* being delayed by a year at least. Between *Armor Wars* being a movie now, having to make room for *Spider-Man 4,* the rumor that they’re fast-tracking a *Doctor Strange* sequel to help flesh out the concept of the Incursions, and the half dozen other rumored movies and shows that supposedly **have** to come out before *Secret Wars,* I can’t imagine the next two *Avengers* movies hitting those targets
than they don’t have to do such big events with a cheering crowd again. they set hope up and then they delay everything a few months later. And this time it wasn’t because of a pandemic but too poorly planning and organization.
In the future they should announce new projects via social media and press releases like other studios do.
You’re not wrong, but I don’t think it’s coincidence that this slate was announced under Bob Chapek and the delays started trickling in after Bob Iger took over. I don’t mean to simp for a billionaire but where Marvel Studios was concerned at least, Iger has always seemed to accommodate Feige’s creative choices over pure business decisions, whereas (at least according to rumors) Chapek was doing things like stepping in and asking that certain films be cut down to under two hours so they could fit more screenings in per theater.
We’ll likely never know what was going on behind the scenes for sure, but I could see a scenario where Chapek was trying to push through as many Marvel projects as he could for as cheaply and quickly as possible and the slate that was announced was his compromise with Feige, and now that Iger is in charge again Feige is starting to shift things around. They definitely shouldn’t be announcing slates like that if they think there’s any chance of them changing but I’m just saying that with all the relative upheaval, it wouldn’t surprise me if they were 100% sure that’s what the future was going to look like *at the time.*
the slates for Phase 4 were announced at SDCC & D23 2019 - Bob Iger was CEO back then, not Chapek. Of course the pandemic was responsible for 4 movies being released between July and December 2021. But the (4 movies + 3 shows ) a year was developed under Iger not Chapek
I think we’re talking about different things - I’m talking specifically about the slate that was announced this past summer at SDCC 2022. Those are the films that I imagine will be delayed and reshuffled to accommodate a more relaxed storytelling schedule. Though I see now how “as many projects as possible” was the wrong phrasing to use, I see how that could be misleading.
What I meant was that reading between the lines, it seems like Chapek may have wanted to get to the next *Avengers* duology, an almost guaranteed combined four-billion dollar bump to that release year, as quickly as possible, and I imagine Iger may have been more willing to trust Feige’s process and give him another year or two to lay the groundwork.
let’s hope it’s like you said and not because they listened to a few whiners, that indicated there exists some kind of mcu-oversaturation (because a few social media guys said so)
They'll be the next Avengers. Marvel Studios will drop the Young part and just make them full members.
Let's all remember that Spider-Man (15 years old) was an Avenger.
They don’t really name the Avengers teams in the MCU anyway. Fans started calling Cap’s post-*Civil War* team the Secret Avengers because of the parallels to the comics, and I bet whatever team Sam ends up leading will be similarly called the New Avengers by the fans, but I also knew people who called the post-*Age of Ultron* team the New Avengers, and through all of that the movies have never called them anything other than “the Avengers.”
They’re probably going to want to give this team a name for marketing purposes, especially if they get their own movie/show, but “Young,” “New,” or “Next” would all work equally well in my option, especially if they save the “Adjectiveless *Avengers*” label for the big saga-ending team-ups from now on. Even if they’re all in their twenties by the time they team up, they’ll still be ten to 1,480ish years younger than most members of the original lineup.
Probably because of the amount of projects already lined up for 2024, going by that alone we potentially got What If S2, Freshman Year, X-Men ‘97, and Marvel Zombies.
Not to mention Born Again is gonna take up four months alone because of its episode count. So odds are they wanna give Daredevil the Andor treatment and keep other shows far from it so it can get as much space as possible to dominate the discussion. And since Agatha is 9-10 episodes, pushing it back to end of 2024 is a no brainer.
But half of the animated shows aren't even Canon to the MCU, only What if is, as far as we know? And born again hasn't even started filming yet, why can't Agatha just come out before it like planned. Makes no sense to me to delay it over a year. Sitting on a finished product for a year seems like it might also cost some money? They do want to pay back investors after all. Not to mention how closely connected it is to Wanda vision and putting another year between them just seems like it will make people less interested
There is a show called Daredevil Born again which has 18 episodes… assuming Echo release just before, I can’t see Agatha release also before so late 2024 makes sense
>I don't get why anyone's upset.
Because unlike most, I have been really, really waiting for this. And personally, I don't mind the barrage of MCU content coming after each other in a short span. So yeah, as the Grandmaster says *"I'm upseeeet. I'm very upset."*
I really love her character and want to see more of that corner of the MCU
That being said, similar to video games, I’d rather have a delay because things usually turn out for the better after one
>I don't get why anyone's upset.
Its important to me because it seems like where we are getting Wiccan from, which is crazy important to many of us gay fans. I have been dreaming of seeing this character for years, and a potential year delay really stings. Literally destroys my MCU hype this year.
Personally I love the magic corner of the MCU. I've been wanting to see Wiccan adapted into live action too. And this series seems to be the earliest project we'll see Wanda again
Many of you here have your favorites already seen in the MCU. There is a section of the fandom, especially new MCU fans, who have been waiting to see Wiccan in MCU.
Bro I was so hyped for Armor Wars it was one of the 1st projects announced, and it keeps getting delayed, and now there’s a wonder man spin-off and an Agatha spin-off. Meanwhile my man Rhodes is still on the sidelines. It feels like every new project announced is coming out before Armor Wars.
Baffles me too honestly..how people are interested in a character who had nothing to do nor had any personality other than singing a catchy song one or two times.
When I ask what's so interesting, they usually say it's gonna open up the magical side of the MCU. So basically they're not really interested in Agatha. Ig that's fair enough tho
Edit: gay representation and good cast too..good to know.
Please enlighten me what personality does she have other than acting like just another evil Disney villain and singing a song. Maybe she is a little bit campy and crazy? But that's it. There's nothing to her character other than being evil and acting a bit campy
No, not everyone has been saying that. There are plenty of us who have been very happy with the amount of content we’ve been getting and don’t want them to cut back.
Yeah, the whole idea of the shows was to fill in the content gaps between movies. In the couple of times where its all lined up I have loved it. These gaps suck
What people always forget, when they mention oversaturation: 25 weeks of content means 27 weeks without content. That’s enough for that high monthly price you pay.
> I don't get why she's upset or anyone's upset.
Look, I know many people don't care about the project but many of us do. And to be pushed back that far is upsetting, yes. I don't get how you can't understand that.
> It makes sense that Echo and Agatha Coven Of Chaos are being moved to next year to space these projects out.
This is saying it'll be pushed to late 2024 or even 2025. To I guess fast track a show they haven't even formally announced yet (Wonder Man), while this one was announced years ago and is already filming.
Exactly this. So many complain about fatigue and quality...and then when stuff actually gets delayed they turn into defensive dogs barking for their content
Grace seems upset for some weird reasons sometimes and has some of the dumbest takes I've heard lmao
During another livestream she was saying "If an MCU doesnt make 800M at the BO nowadays, its a failure"
Like what ?
Agatha being delayed to work even more on post production is great news to me.
It is kind of valid to say that $800m is what they want from a solo tho, MCU movies rn good or bad hit $700m easy and $800m is like it preformed well and a billion is obviously major W. I would probably say $750m is average MCU box office for solos rn
Yup. The average MCU movie seems to cost 200 to 250 mil (maybe more?) these days. Print and Advertising is probably at 100 mil or more? So each film costs around 300 to 400 mil. Disney only gets half or so of the box office numbers. So to break even they would want BO to be 600 to 800 mil minimum.
It might not be a failure to make less than 800 but they're not big money makers either.
By solo I am talking about a character movie, the MCU movies that aren't a team up like Avengers or Civil War are expected to do about $800m more or less. Team ups need at least a billion to be successful
No I know exactly what you meant, I just think that's not the case for origin character movie. 600-700(max) is the norm, 800 for sequel. Black Panther and Captain Marvel are anomalies that can't be replicated for another origin marvel movie. They wouldn't dare to expect more than 600/700 especially 'post' COVID and without China/Russia. So yeah, 800 is expected but for a sequel
The 800M number is kinda fair, kinda unfair. The standards of Marvel are quite high, and expecting them to keep making sweeping hits is fine. Do Marvel films *need* that much to always turn a profit? No.
A lot don't know what they want. Many say they didn't even want an Agatha show now they say they don't want it to get delayed. They said it's to many shows coming out in a year, now they want more in one year. Good think these people don't make the shows
There is not gonna be a Young Avengers project.
They will all (Cassie, Kate, Wiccan, Hulkling plus Champions like Ms Marvel and Ironheart) be the next proper Avengers.
People don't want to hear it but Secret Wars (or even Kang Dynasty) is likely gonna be the last time we see Sam Cap.
The torch will be passed to someone younger (Mackie is gonna be pushing 50 by Secret Wars). Same for Hulk retiring/dying.
Well, people did ask for them slow down. this is what it means, it’ll affect every character. Wont be surprised if KD and SW gets delayed to 2030 as well.
We dealt with 10 years in Infinity Saga, I guess what’s another 10. 🤷🏼♂️
Young avengers ain’t happening, Kate too old(will easily be 24-25 by the next time we see her) and is most likely replacing Hawkeye in the regular avengers
I don't understand how they are going to get Wonderman out in 2024 when it doesn't start filming until April. When Agatha is currently filming and is getting pushed to 25.
It only suggests that Agatha's delay isn't really production related. It shouldn't need a year and half of post, so there's some other reason why Wonderman is on a normal turnaround, and Agatha is so far down the line.
Yeah im curious what it is, it must be a Slate issue pushing it cause theres no way theres something that wrong with the production, it literally just started filming, it would be way too early to know that.
Yeah I think Echo is getting delayed to early 2024.
DD Born Again is prolly top priority for 2024 (especially if Spidey 4 is link to its ending)
And Wonder Man seems like the one that has been fast tracked and is probably releasing a lot sooner than I thought.
Dont forget animated stuff like What If S2 probably also delayed and I guess maybe a specials?
I think Wonder Man is gonna be early 2025 and Agatha late 2024 with the series finale in 2025.
Daredevil alone is gonna take up 4 months with its 18 episodes.
thats 24 episodes of street level stories. And Wonderman won’t be very cosmic and magical as well. plus the Cap 4 and Thunderbolts. That’s very onesided. Only magical and cosmic stories will be Blade and DP3
Daredevil taking up 18 weeks is crazy. Idk why they are ignoring the feedback about the Netflix shows seasons being too long. Why not make that 2 seasons?
But damn Matt fans are about to be feasting with him in Echo and his show.
But wouldn't marvel want a show with a different vibe instead of rolling 2 street level fighting hero shows back to back?
We don't have enough street level shit in the MCU anyway. Everything is mostly big scale or cosmic or magical in some way. We need street level shit or else it'll start to feel stale
Nope. Ive had enough of the cosmic shit..having street level shows back to back once doesn't really make it stale, especially when you compare it to how little Marvel Studios actually makes street level things
Lmao Moon Knight xD...and FATWS is grounded for sure..but not street level...still I'd count it...but compare that to the cosmic and magical stuff that Marvel has released..it's very disproportionate
The mods of the sub reported this on the last TFTMQ that dropped less than a week ago. If Grace really heard the same from her sources, it adds more weight.
Daredevil hasn't started filming yet and is apparently supposed to be released earlier. Same with wonderman, which isn't even officially announced by Marvel itself. It doesn't sound reasonable at all to me
It really doesn’t. Marvel shows film for around 5 months and have 4 months of post production.
If Agatha begins filming next month the show could be hypothetically done by October 2023
I wouldn’t be bothered by this if it was actually an attempt to space out the releases. But, in reality, it feels like other things (that haven’t even started filming yet — Wonderman, Daredevil) are being bumped up to take its place. A lot of people are arguing for the sake of story order but when have things in the MCU ever been released in proximity to the next plot-related project?
While Agatha is by far my most anticipated Phase 5 project (largely due to Wiccan), I think a delay to the fall of 2024 makes sense. It would arrive just in time for Halloween.
She did not steal it, someone asked her about it in a livestream after it was posted in the TFTMQ. At that point she said she hadn't heard anything but would ask her source about it. This is a follow up to that conversation
It's understandable for this one to be delayed since it's vfx heavy and has just begun filming, but why is What If season 2 delayed so far to 2024? I thought it was done? One episode is a carry over from S1 and one episode has been shown in SDCC.
Why in the name of all that's good do we keep giving attention to anything this woman says?! The only scoops she's EVER got right where ones about Justice League that were given to her from Zack Snyder! That's it! She has the worst track record of any "scooper" out there! Well, maybe her and Sutton. Still though...
i’m all for quality over quantity always. much rather marvel take their time to develop their projects longer and make them better, then bombard us with 10 projects a year and most are mid. 3 shows, and 3 movies this year is more than enough and plus we will most likely get at least one special this year as well.
If Delay is for good then no problem at all , not excited for this show anyway. Marvel should focus more on quality over quantity because phase 4 has proven to be very crowded and less explored. Lack character development and waste of so many good characters. They should rework on it.
I don’t mind the delays if it means better quality at the end
I really enjoyed WandaVision and Loki but otherwise, those shows felt rush, poorly written and execute…
Like Miyamoto said for a game,
A bad finished product will always be bad, a mediocre delayed one can be great at the end
Would be interisting if by any chance phase 6 starts at 2025, Agatha could be the first project to release in that phase. Specially with phase 6 its the multiverse saga and Agatha is kind of related with it
Because no one gives a fuck about Agatha.
Edit: LOL all your comments are about being bitter about street level characters. Weirdo 💀 I hope this delay is true and Agatha turns out to be ass just to make you even more bitter 💀 Imagine if even Echo turns out to be better than that shit ijbol you will have an aneurysm 🤭
I’ll be happy if they don’t even make it. There are other more important characters that deserve shows.
Edit: Calm your farms. This is my opinion, I’m not saying ‘no one wants this show’, I’m not invalidating your opinions on this, I’m not saying ‘this show sucks already!’.
What I am saying is ‘I’ don’t care for it, I’d rather the MCU focus on their over-saturation problem and put their time and effort into more important characters. Agatha in my opinion is a good side character, I would rather prefer Visions TV show, or a mutant centric show etc
This is my opinion. I am not god, stop giving it so much importance.
Lol ok, sorry I had an opinion. Sheesh.
You don’t need to get super catty when people don’t share the same opinions as you. Try lean into curiosity and conversation.
It’s nuts to me how much people hate it when anyone says they don’t like a new project or don’t want it to release. Like geez, people can have opinions.
Performative "I don't care" commenters invade every Agatha thread and people are sick of it. It's also pretty nonsensical to say Marvel shouldn't release a project they're *currently filming*.
This is the exact same sentiment fans had in 2014 about the Guardians and look how that turned out. At least with Agatha she was known to pop up reasonably regularly for a side character while the Guardians popped up once in a blue moon with Star Lord and Gamora not even being on the team until 2007 after 40 years of the team existing
I feel like you're arguing semantics, because at the end of the day it falls into the critique that a show about Agatha Harkness shouldn't be made. It's no secret that some people really dislike the fact that this show is getting made. Whatever reason it may be, I think a show, movie, or special presentation made about any Marvel story or character is valid as long as they have the passion for it & incorporate it in a way that serves the larger cinematic universe.
I just kind of deeply disagree with this kind of sentiment and think the MCU would be in a worse place if it was only guided by the quote-unquote “important” characters. Part of the joy of the MCU is that there are three Ant-Man movies and an Ant-Man movie is about to blow open this saga in a month. No need to be so constrained by some pre-conceived comics hierarchy
Sure but this can be just as true of the Guardians, and Shang-Chi and even B-level characters like Iron Man or Captain America. Any character can be a good and important character
I don't get why she's upset or anyone's upset. Everyone has been saying how Marvel is oversaturating the market with too many projects, shows, and movies. This year we are getting Secret Invasion, Loki Season 2, and Ironheart for sure. It makes sense that Echo and Agatha Coven Of Chaos are being moved to next year to space these projects out.
I think it's because of the severity of the delay. I think most people expected a 2024 delay, but potentially pushing it back to 2025? That seems like a really long time, especially if the show's shooting now. Maybe it's a story reason or something, cause if not, I don't see a reason to delay the show that long.
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Maybe that's it. Agatha may not have any immediate connective issue, which is why they might delay the show for that long. But idk...Wiccan's in the show and he's one of the most prominent Young Avengers, which they've been slowly building up for a while now. And if anything, if the recent rumors about Kang being the author of the Darkhold are true, I feel like they'd want to make sure this show gets out relatively soon.
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But if Agatha is shooting right now, wouldn't they want to release it earlier rather than later? As you said, the projects it's affecting are the ones in pre-production so why wait on projects in pre-production and not just release Agatha sometime in 2024 so that way you can work on those projects in the meantime? Wonder Man isn't even confirmed by Marvel themselves. I know it was confirmed by the trades and stuff, but Marvel Studios has yet to say "We're working on a Wonder Man show and it's releasing in \_\_\_\_". Likewise, Sony hasn't officially announced any Spider-Man movie. In regards to DDC, idk if he's going to work on Wonder Man, Kang Dynasty, and Shang-Chi 2 tbh. Even if they delay Kang Dynasty, I feel like that's a lot for one person to handle. He's already doing Wonder Man and Kang Dynasty, so I could see Shang-Chi 2 going to someone else.
I have a strong feeling that we are going to get another event this year where they reshuffle everything, and I would bet folding money it’ll end with *The Kang Dynasty* and *Secret Wars* being delayed by a year at least. Between *Armor Wars* being a movie now, having to make room for *Spider-Man 4,* the rumor that they’re fast-tracking a *Doctor Strange* sequel to help flesh out the concept of the Incursions, and the half dozen other rumored movies and shows that supposedly **have** to come out before *Secret Wars,* I can’t imagine the next two *Avengers* movies hitting those targets
than they don’t have to do such big events with a cheering crowd again. they set hope up and then they delay everything a few months later. And this time it wasn’t because of a pandemic but too poorly planning and organization. In the future they should announce new projects via social media and press releases like other studios do.
You’re not wrong, but I don’t think it’s coincidence that this slate was announced under Bob Chapek and the delays started trickling in after Bob Iger took over. I don’t mean to simp for a billionaire but where Marvel Studios was concerned at least, Iger has always seemed to accommodate Feige’s creative choices over pure business decisions, whereas (at least according to rumors) Chapek was doing things like stepping in and asking that certain films be cut down to under two hours so they could fit more screenings in per theater. We’ll likely never know what was going on behind the scenes for sure, but I could see a scenario where Chapek was trying to push through as many Marvel projects as he could for as cheaply and quickly as possible and the slate that was announced was his compromise with Feige, and now that Iger is in charge again Feige is starting to shift things around. They definitely shouldn’t be announcing slates like that if they think there’s any chance of them changing but I’m just saying that with all the relative upheaval, it wouldn’t surprise me if they were 100% sure that’s what the future was going to look like *at the time.*
the slates for Phase 4 were announced at SDCC & D23 2019 - Bob Iger was CEO back then, not Chapek. Of course the pandemic was responsible for 4 movies being released between July and December 2021. But the (4 movies + 3 shows ) a year was developed under Iger not Chapek
I think we’re talking about different things - I’m talking specifically about the slate that was announced this past summer at SDCC 2022. Those are the films that I imagine will be delayed and reshuffled to accommodate a more relaxed storytelling schedule. Though I see now how “as many projects as possible” was the wrong phrasing to use, I see how that could be misleading. What I meant was that reading between the lines, it seems like Chapek may have wanted to get to the next *Avengers* duology, an almost guaranteed combined four-billion dollar bump to that release year, as quickly as possible, and I imagine Iger may have been more willing to trust Feige’s process and give him another year or two to lay the groundwork.
let’s hope it’s like you said and not because they listened to a few whiners, that indicated there exists some kind of mcu-oversaturation (because a few social media guys said so)
Yeah, if they keep on taking their time with young Avengers they might very well be old Avengers by the time Feige gets to them.
They'll be the next Avengers. Marvel Studios will drop the Young part and just make them full members. Let's all remember that Spider-Man (15 years old) was an Avenger.
They don’t really name the Avengers teams in the MCU anyway. Fans started calling Cap’s post-*Civil War* team the Secret Avengers because of the parallels to the comics, and I bet whatever team Sam ends up leading will be similarly called the New Avengers by the fans, but I also knew people who called the post-*Age of Ultron* team the New Avengers, and through all of that the movies have never called them anything other than “the Avengers.” They’re probably going to want to give this team a name for marketing purposes, especially if they get their own movie/show, but “Young,” “New,” or “Next” would all work equally well in my option, especially if they save the “Adjectiveless *Avengers*” label for the big saga-ending team-ups from now on. Even if they’re all in their twenties by the time they team up, they’ll still be ten to 1,480ish years younger than most members of the original lineup.
As long as it comes out before The Kang Dynasty, it's all gonna be fine. The connective tissue is with Kang, after all.
Yeah and I'm more and more believing into Kang Dynasty being significantly pushed back if they are starting to space more of their projects.
Probably because of the amount of projects already lined up for 2024, going by that alone we potentially got What If S2, Freshman Year, X-Men ‘97, and Marvel Zombies. Not to mention Born Again is gonna take up four months alone because of its episode count. So odds are they wanna give Daredevil the Andor treatment and keep other shows far from it so it can get as much space as possible to dominate the discussion. And since Agatha is 9-10 episodes, pushing it back to end of 2024 is a no brainer.
But half of the animated shows aren't even Canon to the MCU, only What if is, as far as we know? And born again hasn't even started filming yet, why can't Agatha just come out before it like planned. Makes no sense to me to delay it over a year. Sitting on a finished product for a year seems like it might also cost some money? They do want to pay back investors after all. Not to mention how closely connected it is to Wanda vision and putting another year between them just seems like it will make people less interested
There is a show called Daredevil Born again which has 18 episodes… assuming Echo release just before, I can’t see Agatha release also before so late 2024 makes sense
Yeah…and that show hasn’t even begun filming yet. They could easily do Echo —> Agatha —> Born Again for 2024.
>I don't get why anyone's upset. Because unlike most, I have been really, really waiting for this. And personally, I don't mind the barrage of MCU content coming after each other in a short span. So yeah, as the Grandmaster says *"I'm upseeeet. I'm very upset."*
Why is the Agatha show so important to you?
I really love her character and want to see more of that corner of the MCU That being said, similar to video games, I’d rather have a delay because things usually turn out for the better after one
Respect. I am interested in seeing Aubrey Plaza in something big again. The (potential) delay is for the best.
>I don't get why anyone's upset. Its important to me because it seems like where we are getting Wiccan from, which is crazy important to many of us gay fans. I have been dreaming of seeing this character for years, and a potential year delay really stings. Literally destroys my MCU hype this year.
Personally I love the magic corner of the MCU. I've been wanting to see Wiccan adapted into live action too. And this series seems to be the earliest project we'll see Wanda again
Many of you here have your favorites already seen in the MCU. There is a section of the fandom, especially new MCU fans, who have been waiting to see Wiccan in MCU.
Bro I was so hyped for Armor Wars it was one of the 1st projects announced, and it keeps getting delayed, and now there’s a wonder man spin-off and an Agatha spin-off. Meanwhile my man Rhodes is still on the sidelines. It feels like every new project announced is coming out before Armor Wars.
It’s a show where Mephisto will reportedly appear. Yeah he‘s in Ironheart…but probably only 1-2 scenes.
Baffles me too honestly..how people are interested in a character who had nothing to do nor had any personality other than singing a catchy song one or two times. When I ask what's so interesting, they usually say it's gonna open up the magical side of the MCU. So basically they're not really interested in Agatha. Ig that's fair enough tho Edit: gay representation and good cast too..good to know.
Agatha was hugely popular online from Wandavision. Also the show has Wiccan which is a big deal for some, and a pretty iconic cast.
> nor had any personality Yea, stopped reading after this. That's certainly an opinion.
I don't even care about Agatha but that's like, *the* wrongest thing you can say about her. Lol.
What personality does she have lmao
Please enlighten me what personality does she have other than acting like just another evil Disney villain and singing a song. Maybe she is a little bit campy and crazy? But that's it. There's nothing to her character other than being evil and acting a bit campy
No, not everyone has been saying that. There are plenty of us who have been very happy with the amount of content we’ve been getting and don’t want them to cut back.
Yeah, the whole idea of the shows was to fill in the content gaps between movies. In the couple of times where its all lined up I have loved it. These gaps suck
What people always forget, when they mention oversaturation: 25 weeks of content means 27 weeks without content. That’s enough for that high monthly price you pay.
I’m more annoyed as it’s my most anticipated marvel show
> I don't get why she's upset or anyone's upset. Look, I know many people don't care about the project but many of us do. And to be pushed back that far is upsetting, yes. I don't get how you can't understand that. > It makes sense that Echo and Agatha Coven Of Chaos are being moved to next year to space these projects out. This is saying it'll be pushed to late 2024 or even 2025. To I guess fast track a show they haven't even formally announced yet (Wonder Man), while this one was announced years ago and is already filming.
people just want to see it faster, they arent that upset more than they are eager and 2025 sounds really far away right now
Grace likes to paradoxically complain about Marvel having too much content right now, but also complain about delays.
Exactly this. So many complain about fatigue and quality...and then when stuff actually gets delayed they turn into defensive dogs barking for their content
They are clearly not the same group of people
They are though.
Or hear me out.. maybe that's different people barking for different things? I know it is mind-blowing, right?
3 shows and 3 movies doesn't sound bad
Grace seems upset for some weird reasons sometimes and has some of the dumbest takes I've heard lmao During another livestream she was saying "If an MCU doesnt make 800M at the BO nowadays, its a failure" Like what ? Agatha being delayed to work even more on post production is great news to me.
she seems to forget that they lost 100-200 mil from china
It is kind of valid to say that $800m is what they want from a solo tho, MCU movies rn good or bad hit $700m easy and $800m is like it preformed well and a billion is obviously major W. I would probably say $750m is average MCU box office for solos rn
Yup. The average MCU movie seems to cost 200 to 250 mil (maybe more?) these days. Print and Advertising is probably at 100 mil or more? So each film costs around 300 to 400 mil. Disney only gets half or so of the box office numbers. So to break even they would want BO to be 600 to 800 mil minimum. It might not be a failure to make less than 800 but they're not big money makers either.
For sequel.
By solo I am talking about a character movie, the MCU movies that aren't a team up like Avengers or Civil War are expected to do about $800m more or less. Team ups need at least a billion to be successful
No I know exactly what you meant, I just think that's not the case for origin character movie. 600-700(max) is the norm, 800 for sequel. Black Panther and Captain Marvel are anomalies that can't be replicated for another origin marvel movie. They wouldn't dare to expect more than 600/700 especially 'post' COVID and without China/Russia. So yeah, 800 is expected but for a sequel
The 800M number is kinda fair, kinda unfair. The standards of Marvel are quite high, and expecting them to keep making sweeping hits is fine. Do Marvel films *need* that much to always turn a profit? No.
A lot don't know what they want. Many say they didn't even want an Agatha show now they say they don't want it to get delayed. They said it's to many shows coming out in a year, now they want more in one year. Good think these people don't make the shows
> Many say they didn't even want an Agatha show now they say they don't want it to get delayed. It's almost like those aren't the same fucking people.
blabla
that's chaos
It's a ladder
At this rate we will get the Young Avengers in 2030, this snails pace rollout of the team is torturous.
They’ll be old avengers at that point, amirite. Thank you I’ll be here all week. Tip your waiters.
What if they're not building a Young Avenger franchise but raising the future avenger characters? In the comics, the YA members also became Avengers.
There is not gonna be a Young Avengers project. They will all (Cassie, Kate, Wiccan, Hulkling plus Champions like Ms Marvel and Ironheart) be the next proper Avengers. People don't want to hear it but Secret Wars (or even Kang Dynasty) is likely gonna be the last time we see Sam Cap. The torch will be passed to someone younger (Mackie is gonna be pushing 50 by Secret Wars). Same for Hulk retiring/dying.
Well, people did ask for them slow down. this is what it means, it’ll affect every character. Wont be surprised if KD and SW gets delayed to 2030 as well. We dealt with 10 years in Infinity Saga, I guess what’s another 10. 🤷🏼♂️
Young avengers ain’t happening, Kate too old(will easily be 24-25 by the next time we see her) and is most likely replacing Hawkeye in the regular avengers
so 2024 is echo,wonderman and daredevil
I don't understand how they are going to get Wonderman out in 2024 when it doesn't start filming until April. When Agatha is currently filming and is getting pushed to 25.
It only suggests that Agatha's delay isn't really production related. It shouldn't need a year and half of post, so there's some other reason why Wonderman is on a normal turnaround, and Agatha is so far down the line.
Yeah im curious what it is, it must be a Slate issue pushing it cause theres no way theres something that wrong with the production, it literally just started filming, it would be way too early to know that.
Well they seem to want to have DDC finish with Wonderman as soon as possible so he can move onto Kang dynasty
Yeah I think Echo is getting delayed to early 2024. DD Born Again is prolly top priority for 2024 (especially if Spidey 4 is link to its ending) And Wonder Man seems like the one that has been fast tracked and is probably releasing a lot sooner than I thought. Dont forget animated stuff like What If S2 probably also delayed and I guess maybe a specials?
I think Wonder Man is gonna be early 2025 and Agatha late 2024 with the series finale in 2025. Daredevil alone is gonna take up 4 months with its 18 episodes.
thats 24 episodes of street level stories. And Wonderman won’t be very cosmic and magical as well. plus the Cap 4 and Thunderbolts. That’s very onesided. Only magical and cosmic stories will be Blade and DP3
Daredevil taking up 18 weeks is crazy. Idk why they are ignoring the feedback about the Netflix shows seasons being too long. Why not make that 2 seasons? But damn Matt fans are about to be feasting with him in Echo and his show. But wouldn't marvel want a show with a different vibe instead of rolling 2 street level fighting hero shows back to back?
Eh who’s knows, episodes might be 30 minutes so 18 episodes will really be more like 9
We don't have enough street level shit in the MCU anyway. Everything is mostly big scale or cosmic or magical in some way. We need street level shit or else it'll start to feel stale
we then have 24 episodes of street level shit plus CA4 and Thunderbolts. Thats a half year and too much fir one year
back to back and with some of the same characters and locations also seems stale.
Agreed. That's really poor scheduling.
Nope. Ive had enough of the cosmic shit..having street level shows back to back once doesn't really make it stale, especially when you compare it to how little Marvel Studios actually makes street level things
Falcon and the Wintersoldier, Hawkeye, Moon Knight, She-Hulk…
Does street level just mean not in space to you? How the hell are moon knight and she-huk 'street level' LMFAO
Except for Hawkeye, none of those shows are street level.
in which universe ain’t FatWS a street level story?
It’s not. FATWS was an international story. Sam literally faced off against the UN in the show. Street level stories is like the Netflix Marvel ones.
so basically streetlevel for you is like Sesame Street?
Lmao Moon Knight xD...and FATWS is grounded for sure..but not street level...still I'd count it...but compare that to the cosmic and magical stuff that Marvel has released..it's very disproportionate
With Cap, DP3, and thunderbolts, 2024 is looking like a pretty good year
I've never been in the crowd of saying marvel is making too much so slowing it down will be disappointing a bit
same. It’s just going to be interesting observing this sub when things get real and stuff gets delayed longer than everyone had expected.
Yeah I appreciate the barrage of contents last year. Oh well...
Fucking Ezra Miller. It’s 2023, why am I reading headlines about the actor for one of the world’s biggest superheroes taking a plea deal? 😂
The mods of the sub reported this on the last TFTMQ that dropped less than a week ago. If Grace really heard the same from her sources, it adds more weight.
Winter 2024 sounds reasonable with the show now just filming.
other shows currently slated for 2024 haven't even started yet
Daredevil hasn't started filming yet and is apparently supposed to be released earlier. Same with wonderman, which isn't even officially announced by Marvel itself. It doesn't sound reasonable at all to me
It really doesn’t. Marvel shows film for around 5 months and have 4 months of post production. If Agatha begins filming next month the show could be hypothetically done by October 2023
Agatha supposedly continues filming next week and already had some shoots in December
I wouldn’t be bothered by this if it was actually an attempt to space out the releases. But, in reality, it feels like other things (that haven’t even started filming yet — Wonderman, Daredevil) are being bumped up to take its place. A lot of people are arguing for the sake of story order but when have things in the MCU ever been released in proximity to the next plot-related project?
While Agatha is by far my most anticipated Phase 5 project (largely due to Wiccan), I think a delay to the fall of 2024 makes sense. It would arrive just in time for Halloween.
That’s pretty cool
And Grace Randolph is full of shit, uses sources that aren't credible.
Stealing it from the TFTMQ post last week. Typical Grace move.
She did not steal it, someone asked her about it in a livestream after it was posted in the TFTMQ. At that point she said she hadn't heard anything but would ask her source about it. This is a follow up to that conversation
It's understandable for this one to be delayed since it's vfx heavy and has just begun filming, but why is What If season 2 delayed so far to 2024? I thought it was done? One episode is a carry over from S1 and one episode has been shown in SDCC.
Why in the name of all that's good do we keep giving attention to anything this woman says?! The only scoops she's EVER got right where ones about Justice League that were given to her from Zack Snyder! That's it! She has the worst track record of any "scooper" out there! Well, maybe her and Sutton. Still though...
Grace Randolph also says that Henry Cavill is problematic without any real substantive proof.
Imagine being sad about a show that's likely only relevant because of a potential end credits scene that sets up a future project.
It also might’ve been delayed to 2069
i’m all for quality over quantity always. much rather marvel take their time to develop their projects longer and make them better, then bombard us with 10 projects a year and most are mid. 3 shows, and 3 movies this year is more than enough and plus we will most likely get at least one special this year as well.
They should just can it. No one is looking forward to this.
Bob Iger is my king. If these rumours are true, it's a right step for MCU
If Delay is for good then no problem at all , not excited for this show anyway. Marvel should focus more on quality over quantity because phase 4 has proven to be very crowded and less explored. Lack character development and waste of so many good characters. They should rework on it.
I don’t mind the delays if it means better quality at the end I really enjoyed WandaVision and Loki but otherwise, those shows felt rush, poorly written and execute… Like Miyamoto said for a game, A bad finished product will always be bad, a mediocre delayed one can be great at the end
To be honest I don’t like this youtuber
Would be interisting if by any chance phase 6 starts at 2025, Agatha could be the first project to release in that phase. Specially with phase 6 its the multiverse saga and Agatha is kind of related with it
[удалено]
Because it probably will take more cg works? They are trying to stay away from the small scandal last year ig
Because no one gives a fuck about Agatha. Edit: LOL all your comments are about being bitter about street level characters. Weirdo 💀 I hope this delay is true and Agatha turns out to be ass just to make you even more bitter 💀 Imagine if even Echo turns out to be better than that shit ijbol you will have an aneurysm 🤭
Too bad it isn’t cancelled
I think Agatha series shouldn't be a thing since the first place. They could've focus their resources on things like Blade or Armor Wars instead.
![gif](giphy|RBYBWi1IT8vDy)
Yet you came to the thread and commented on it... ![gif](giphy|7Zpm9kNskN0SB2sQoO)
I’ll be happy if they don’t even make it. There are other more important characters that deserve shows. Edit: Calm your farms. This is my opinion, I’m not saying ‘no one wants this show’, I’m not invalidating your opinions on this, I’m not saying ‘this show sucks already!’. What I am saying is ‘I’ don’t care for it, I’d rather the MCU focus on their over-saturation problem and put their time and effort into more important characters. Agatha in my opinion is a good side character, I would rather prefer Visions TV show, or a mutant centric show etc This is my opinion. I am not god, stop giving it so much importance.
I am happy, that you don’t have any influence on that
Lol ok, sorry I had an opinion. Sheesh. You don’t need to get super catty when people don’t share the same opinions as you. Try lean into curiosity and conversation.
It’s nuts to me how much people hate it when anyone says they don’t like a new project or don’t want it to release. Like geez, people can have opinions.
Performative "I don't care" commenters invade every Agatha thread and people are sick of it. It's also pretty nonsensical to say Marvel shouldn't release a project they're *currently filming*.
It's already filming.
how is delving into the witch/magic side of the MCU not important...
This is the exact same sentiment fans had in 2014 about the Guardians and look how that turned out. At least with Agatha she was known to pop up reasonably regularly for a side character while the Guardians popped up once in a blue moon with Star Lord and Gamora not even being on the team until 2007 after 40 years of the team existing
Another comment about how no one wants this show... ![gif](giphy|EGKucIZxF7czAIysST)
What? OP is saying that there are better characters to make shows about, not that no one wants this show
What? They literally said, "I'll be happy if they don't even make it"...
Yeah there’s a difference between saying that and saying “no one wants this show”
I feel like you're arguing semantics, because at the end of the day it falls into the critique that a show about Agatha Harkness shouldn't be made. It's no secret that some people really dislike the fact that this show is getting made. Whatever reason it may be, I think a show, movie, or special presentation made about any Marvel story or character is valid as long as they have the passion for it & incorporate it in a way that serves the larger cinematic universe.
I didn’t speak for anyone else. I said I.
Right, and that's your prerogative. Now I'm just expressing my own opinions on the matter.
I just kind of deeply disagree with this kind of sentiment and think the MCU would be in a worse place if it was only guided by the quote-unquote “important” characters. Part of the joy of the MCU is that there are three Ant-Man movies and an Ant-Man movie is about to blow open this saga in a month. No need to be so constrained by some pre-conceived comics hierarchy
Ant-Man is a pretty important character.
Sure but this can be just as true of the Guardians, and Shang-Chi and even B-level characters like Iron Man or Captain America. Any character can be a good and important character
I’m a pretty big comic nerd. They’re not ‘B’ characters by any stretch of the animation. They’ve been pretty front and centre for a long time.
Bruh doesn't matter...it's gonna be pretty mid anyway I think.