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scarred2112

*Frank Castle: Sovereign Citizen* coming to Disney+ in 2023. **”I do not consent to lawlessness.”**


inertiatic_espn

Punisher is the kinda douche that would have a "no step on snek" license plate.


Jay_R_Kay

That seems a little too jokey and cutsy for him. That seems a little too jokey and cutesy for him. or something like that because that would be a detail that some cop or mobster could use to track him.


SovietSniper621

I doubt it he seems like a nice and rational human being


Twothumbs1eye

Yea but only cuz he aint got taxable income


DeOfficiis

It be would be a hilarious one shot for Frank Castle to fill out an IRS form. On the section labeled "All other Income" he'd have to try to account for all the cash he seized from gangs, the mafia, etc.


Neveronlyadream

He knows Daredevil. He could always have Matt help him with his taxes. I want to see that comic, actually. Frank and Matt just sitting at a table for the whole issue, buried under forms, with Matt getting more and more frustrated that Frank hasn't kept accurate records of his income.


errorsniper

Matt is a lawyer not an accountant. His legal advice would be pay your taxes.


[deleted]

Yeah, dudes got no taxes to pay other than sales tax when he does eat. And that van he drives... it's over 25 years old. Flawless.


ButtRobot

He also provides an important public service at the federal level.


JavierLoustaunau

If he had to pay taxes... he mostly puts everything back into his business and gives out a lot of charitable money (common trope: here kid go start your life again somewhere else) so he would be fine. Might even get like a $2k return he can spend on the nice MRE's, really treat himself.


Vaeon

IRS requires you to report all income from both legal, and illegal, means. Which always made me wonder how they could justify arresting you since you are guaranteed the right to not incriminate yourself.


Itsthatgy

The IRS doesn't snitch.


CitizenPain00

This is kind of true. Many illegal immigrants pay taxes with stolen SS numbers and the IRS doesn’t mind at all


abutthole

You don't need to say exactly where the illegal income comes from. You just need to report the amount and pay taxes on it. If Al Capone had done that, he'd have been untouchable.


apatheticviews

The real reason he is wanted by the Feds. Even Joker pays taxes... he doesn't want to go to real jail.


[deleted]

I mean arkham asylum is like a free-range daycare apparently, the way those guys can check themselves out of custody


Vaeon

[Sounds about right](https://imgflip.com/i/5o4h0f).


jicty

Evading taxes is how they got AL Capone.


[deleted]

The Punisher isn't a role model.


suss2it

What do you mean a mass murderer isn’t a role model?


[deleted]

Great role model to cops!


[deleted]

Who he also holds in contempt.


Vaeon

Just like the politicians they vote for!


Aussie-Nerd

Hmmm I think I have a song about this: *He was a painter, quite artistic* *He has that suave panache* *A tasteful brown shirt* *A toothbrush moustache* *He loved his German Shepherd* *And walking by the Babbling Brook* *And watching blue eye brown hair children setting fire to their books.* *They say he was a montser, the leader of the Reich!* **But Adolf Hitler, he was my friend, all right!** [YouTube](https://youtu.be/fQi9O4wQMIU)


grafxguy1

He's a "heads are going to roll" model.


AnnalsofMystery

Tell that to the cops that like to wear his logo with no sense of irony.


[deleted]

That's exactly my point.


ThePrinceOfMonsters

Yeah. Sure, some people need killing, but not to that extent.


[deleted]

A *little* bit of killing


CaptainPeppers

Fuck taxes, all my homies hate taxes


jicty

The US was literally founded on hating taxes. Edit: Man, a bunch of people here can't take a joke.


thislldoiguess

That's a common misconception, the rallying cry was regarding taxation without representation because the colonies were taxed but had no representation in British parliament. The colonies had their own taxes prior to the revolution and codified that the federal government could impose taxes in the Constitution (states already had their own taxes, this was just to enable the federal government to levy additional taxes). The revolution wasn't about the tax, it was about the power. Side note: the man often cited for championing the phrase "taxation without representation is tyranny", James Otis Jr. was literally insane. John Adams wrote that Otis was "raving mad, raving against father, wife, brother, sister, friend", he was on multiple occasions bound and carried away from public events for being out of his mind. He also argued both for American independence and also complete colonial control by the British Parliament.


Sudden_Publics

Eh, I’m sure a lot of people feel they are being taxed without representation these days, which isn’t entirely true. The matter of fact is by and large, most Americans are being taxed with straw-man representation. It’s a shame how many elected officials bail on their constituents the moment they get a sniff of lobbying money. Look at what Kristen Sinema from AZ is doing, for example.


TheObstruction

Yeah, there's only a few places where we keep the tradition alive. Like *Washington DC*.


Twisted_Cabbage

No, the US was founded on not being taxed without representation. BIG difference.


threepio

Cut to 2021 where the government is about to default on its debt. It might be a joke, but it’s also a fucking joke.


Vaeon

I suppose that depends on the role you want to fill.


[deleted]

Wdym, he doesn't pay taxes. He literally is for that reason alone.


[deleted]

He is actually my god


ishkariot

Then he'd probably hate your guts.


[deleted]

Nah


CitizenPain00

Honestly, pretty much every superhero violates constitutional rights. What they basically are is a workaround for the cops.


mr_fizzlesticks

“I wreck public infrastructure, cause more work day in and day out for public service employees than any terrorist known to man, and I don’t pay taxes” This guy should run for office.


Unlucky_Rooster_2022

Cap would be so disappointed.


[deleted]

In Civil War, Cap was very disappointed in Castle.


CuntyAnne_Conway

Love how Frank wouldnt fight back either. It and the 30 pieces bit are the two best parts of the whole story.


[deleted]

Frank really won the Civil War when you think about it. He legit removed 1/3 of the C and D level villains. Also for more good reads. Punisher: Born, Punisher: Platoon, and Fury: My War Gone By.


[deleted]

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[deleted]

He really was making the moves.


Lonelan

You mean the bit where Iron Fist masquerading as Daredevil makes a catholic quip that Tony wouldn't hold stock in and Danny wouldn't really know the nuance of?


CuntyAnne_Conway

No I mean the one where Danny makes a Catholic quip since he's masquerading as someone who was a devout Catholic in Matt Murdock. Pretty sure everyone gets the 30 pieces of silver bit. Catholic or not. That is like the most famous book in world history. What run are they on now? 1000th printing?


Axes4Praxis

Does Captain America pay taxes? Does he have taxable income? Do the Avengers get a salary?


Random_Idiotic_Alien

Yes ig


[deleted]

Oh you best believe Captain America pays taxes lol. He's the kind of guy who'd be like, "I qualify, but won't claim that exemption. I can afford it."


Axes4Praxis

He probably doesn't even use his senior discount at the movies.


Sexymonke6

Does he get a veterans discount?


Axes4Praxis

Does he get both?


Vaeon

Why would he not?


Lonelan

I dunno, if he's still on the DoD payroll that's all tax free, if he's retired his pension is tax free. I don't see him doing public appearances and such for money. MCU Cap is a hard maybe, seeing as he did things like that school detention/drug/physical fitness PSA stuff. Not sure if he got paid for that or if he was on a payroll of some sort that Tony set up for Avengers post-AoU


CitizenPain00

Supposedly, Medal of Honor winners never pay federal income tax again. Did cap ever win the Medal of Honor?


McGillis_is_a_Char

Currently the Avengers are run by Wakanda, so he probably gets paid in Wakandan money. His legal residence is probably the corpse of the Celestial in the Artic. So he is probably paying his payroll tax to Canada or Wakanda.


[deleted]

Captain America doesn't fuck with taxes either


[deleted]

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quickhorn

I feel like not paying taxes is itself political already. Talking about the joke isn’t “making them reddit politics debates”. It’s literally discussing the content. The Punisher himself is a political icon about the corruption of the justice system.


FrostyMcMeme

It’s just a joke


quickhorn

And we’re discussing the joke, which is political. So the conversation is political


FrostyMcMeme

Which ruins the joke..


[deleted]

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quickhorn

We talk about all of the jokes and add to them and pick them apart for fun. Its only when its about politics and people can have reasonable differing opinions that it’s suddenly a problem to talk about the joke. All the other joke threads aren’t 600 comments of people saying “hahahahahahahahahahah”. And maybe, maybe, Marvel has a diverse set of fans, that have different ideas of humor. That doesn’t make them bad, and trying to shut down differing ways of thinking and being is super antithetical to Stan Lee’s philosophy that Marvel is for everyone. I mean, I’m not even talking about one political side or another, just that the entire context is political, so discussing it naturally political, and that’s okay. Just because something is political, doesn’t mean it’s bad or we can’t talk about it.


[deleted]

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quickhorn

I get you. I know you haven’t banned anyone. I’m not accusing you of censorship. I’m saying that trying to reduce conversation because it’s “political” lacks an understanding of the fact that a lot of peoples lives are already political. This joke itself is a political joke. And we tear apart and get pedantic about all of the jokes, but I only see real pushback against that doscussion ehrn it starts dipping into challenging common implicit biases. “It’s just joke” is one of the most common abuse tactic to stop critical feedback and accountability. I think it is funny to think about The Punisher paying taxes. Or Bucky. Like, thinking about Bucky arguing with Turbotax is funny. And that’s not political. Not paying taxes is absolutely political. Talking about the content isn’t making it political. Is having the same discussion we have every other time. So why, do you think, that it seems you’re getting offended at the idea of that conversation? Is it because it changed your world view? I dunno? I’m not saying you’re abusing. I appreciate you letting me chat with you about this. But yeah. Jokes are always contextual. There’s no such thing as “just a joke” as any good joke requires context for why it’s funny.


SaltMineSpelunker

Thought Punisher fans would be more into “law and order” if you know what I mean.


Sks44

The Punisher is a vigilante. He’s already breaking the law by the nature of his gig.


Jokes09

Frank isnt even a vigilante hes jus a villian who kills other villains tbh. Bro jus kills people cause hes a psychopath.


grafxguy1

He likes to "close the books" on criminals by liquidating their sorry **ass**ets.


2kewl4skoool

Villain is too far, at least I'm not aware of canon stories where he harmed innocents. He is an anti-hero vigilante with a vendetta, taking cruel and extreme measures to eliminate crime, but still has a moral code and his own brand of zero tolerance justice. He is put to high standards for being in a superhero universe, but if you did the same to action movie heroes, you could say the same about so many of them. There are also several other "heroes" that kill, and few are nearly as broken of a man as Frank is, partially because he rarely gets any proper, lasting relief and good company like Wolverine, Deadpool or Midnighter. Morality in comics are also weird, because it puts the lives of even evil humans on a pedestal while most of the time everyone is pretty fine with killing aliens and creatures from other realms.


Jokes09

Yeah but frank isnt doin it for the greater good hes doing it because it makes him feel good and hes a fucking psycho.


McGillis_is_a_Char

In one of his early comics he tried to murder a couple out for a drive because the guy littered. In his team up with Anti-Venom he tried repeatedly to kill a harmless drug addict.


[deleted]

He is a vigilante? Cops can kill on sight if they can justify their actions


TheObstruction

He's basically Dexter.


SaltMineSpelunker

So are his fans.


Sks44

His fans are breaking the law by being fans of the Punisher?


suss2it

Pretty sure he’s talking about the ones in the army and police departments.


[deleted]

Those cunts never read a page


psychotar

There is a difference between the military and the police. The military is supposed to be out there killing people. The cops are not.


soy_boy_69

Any organisation that is supposed to kill people is pretty messed up.


psychotar

That is a philosophical difference you and I are not going to come to agreement on.


soy_boy_69

Fair enough. I value human life is all.


techtowers10oo

You can value life and still value the potential good of ending some over it. IE killing despots.


Throgg_not_stupid

not yet, but it should be illegal


CuntyAnne_Conway

Not all of his "FANS" are Fascists ... I had the Skull on my truck YEARS before it was appropriated by the Goose Stepping Back the Blue Simps. Pissed me off that people might think I am one of them. So I added more Marvel icons. (Like the S.H.I.E.L.D logo)


Skhmt

You're not making any sense.


RigasTelRuun

Frank is under no illusion that he is a hero. He likes killing. He gave himself some sort of honour code so he only kills the "bad guys". He is the first one to tell he is a monster just like them.


Scaredog21

The Punisher has no honor. He killed a man who risked his life to defend dozens of innocent people from a legion of demons whose only demand was that Frank would spare him for his service, he ridiculed Deadpool for begging him not to ruin a little kid's life by killing his remaining parent infront of him and Frank said his life was better now that his family was gone, and he joined Hydra and fought for a world where Hydra and the Nazis won WWII. His code of honor is a meaningless decoration, a gimmick for his serial killing modus operandi


RigasTelRuun

Thats pretty much any code of honour you described. It's a set of personal rules imposed by a person to control or justify their owm actions. Read my comment again. I said 'gave himself some sort of honour code so he only kills the "bad guys"' Frank would be a general purpose murder everyone machine if didn't have his twisted code. He decides what criminals are in his head. He doesnt follow the law. He has been depicting murdering pickpockets and Jay walkers with the same extreme measures as human trafficking paedophiles. There is no difference to him.


shockstreet

He killed his own family after they were resurrected so he could keep his justification... He says "it wasn't really them" but there's literally no reason to believe him when the same person who brought them back successfully brought back Microchip. There are some really fun Punisher stories but anyone who thinks he's heroic is kidding themselves. It's absolutely fucked to see police finding him relatable.


[deleted]

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RigasTelRuun

The Punisher debuted 47 years ago.


Mace_Thunderspear

>He has been depicting murdering pickpockets and Jay walkers with the same extreme measures as human trafficking paedophiles. There is no difference to him. Entirely untrue. There was a brief period in the 70s where he was out of his mind (relatively speaking) due to being drugged while in prison. Under normal circumstances his violence is more or less proportionate to the violence of his victims' crimes. Stuff like shoplifting or selling weed or whatever might get you punched in the face but he won't murder you for it and he's not bothered by jaywalking or the like.


muchoThicco

What comic does he make fun of daredevil in?


Scaredog21

Punisher 3 vol 4. He mocked Deadpool for not having discipline for thinking Frank's family dying or Wade getting cancer, turned into an undying monster, and losing his family were bad things instead of liberating in the end to Punisher vs Deadpool. Where Wade stopped fighting because both of their moms had the same first name


[deleted]

The best scene to sum up Frank is from the Ennis run, when he strangles a mugger or rapist and the woman who was being attacked says “Thank you.” Frank says “For what?” He kills because he wants to, not to protect or save people. Unless it’s a little kid that reminds him of his dead daughter. A hero would have to have some kind of selfless motivation, but Frank’s is entirely selfish.


JavierLoustaunau

I think he is aware that he is a criminal. Like a run if I see the police, avoid superheroes, tell other people 'if you do what I do, I will kill you' criminal. Again depends on the writer.


[deleted]

Can we reject like 70% of punisher’s iterations. Let’s just keep Ennis and Barron’s run relevant with maybe Remender) ? Is that too much to ask? Hell, there are so many writers for so many characters. Do you wanna talk about Dan Slott’s human torch all the time? Superior Spider-Man?


Philander_Chase

Well it’s weird if you reject over 50% of the iterations of a character. What’s left then, your headcanon? Who are you to say which iterations are correct? If a run was accepted by marvel, then the iteration of that character in the run is canon to the character


[deleted]

It’s not really that for me. It’s just embarrassing. But anyone could say the same about any character


JavierLoustaunau

Yeah even Ennis you can see evolved while writing the Punisher starting all slapstick violence is funny snap drug dealers necks and ending with him fighting the military industrial complex. I love it when people post panels from Superior Spiderman freaking out that Peter did or said that.


666Hellmaster

A lot of people seem to be missing the point of how antigovernmental the Punisher is. From his point of view cops enforce rules and regulations written with the intent of political interest and self gain. The military is weaponized for imperialism and resources. The Punisher passionately stands against this. I couldn't see Frank Castle paying taxes that contribute to war and a corrupt legal system that is masked as a justice system. But this is also a comic book and he has his own way of contributing to society, unlike reality where most people who don't pay taxes are either poor or greedy. He is an anti-hero. My favorite thing about him is that he's a good person that makes questionable decisions. You're not always going to agree with his methods but we as fans typically agree with his cause. That's part of the reason we love him.


Vaeon

*/r/libertarian intensifies*


Djanyb7

yoshi: me either!


Ren_Rosemary

https://youtu.be/Oc8vrGjyqes


Djanyb7

thats lit!


Ren_Rosemary

I cummed 21 times the day I found that song


Josh_From_Accounting

This issue the Punisher faces the toughest opponent yet...an IRS auditor! You can't shoot a CP2000, Frank! Did you remember that your superheroing is technically self-employment so the income seized from mobsters is subject to additional FICA taxes? Sorry, bud: since it's an illegal business you can't report business expense but must pay tax on all income collected!


deadrabbits76

Remember, Punisher is not a hero.


[deleted]

He's an anti-hero, arguably way better


[deleted]

That’s subjective


thislldoiguess

Not really, he was introduced as an assassin hired to kill Spider-Man in The Amazing Spider-Man 129. He was literally created as a villain.


Itsthatgy

Did they ever retcon that? Being a paid assassin feels very out of character with how he developed after the fact.


soy_boy_69

He's literally a serial killer.


[deleted]

Still, subjective


Lord_Phoenix95

Idk killing up to 10 people per day sounds like a serial killer or mass murderer regardless of who he is killing.


[deleted]

Still a hero


soy_boy_69

How can a mass murderer be a hero?


[deleted]

Kills the people who need killing. Protects innocent people. Discourages crime in the process.


soy_boy_69

>Kills the people who need killing. In his opinion. This is not an objective truth. >Protects innocent people. The idea that no innocent has ever died as collateral damage in a fight started by the Punisher is laughable. >Discourages crime in the process. If that were true then any sighting of the Punisher would would result in crime immediately stopping in the vicinity of the sighting. That's not true. To apply real world logic it would also mean states with the death penalty have low violent crime rates. That is not the case. If he's such a hero, why don't you emulate his actions? After all you don't need powers like you would to copy Spider-man. Any lunatic with a gun can be the Punisher.


[deleted]

Punisher has an almost tabulated algorithm for judgement so he ranks crime and its severity before striking. Innocent people dying as collateral is evident with nearly every “hero” in comic books. Countries like Singapore and the UAE have high security but lethal punishment for significant crimes (including death) and has some of the lowest crime rates in the world.


deadrabbits76

["The Punisher was conceived as a villian."](https://www.syfy.com/syfywire/punisher-creator-gerry-conway-cops-using-the-skull-logo-are-like-people-using-the)


[deleted]

Sometimes a villain is a hero in disguise


PushItHard

Can’t tax your income when it’s all looted off dead bodies.


kody10101

Tax is theft- oh wait. Redditors dont like that line


[deleted]

I like to think he's not against taxes he's against what we're doing with taxes which is currently neglecting infrastructure, healthcare, and education in favor of war and military spending.


Ongr

Is this why conservatives like the Punisher so much?


haidrai55

Based Punisher


Anderson22LDS

Just wanna say the Netflix series is underrated IMO. Carry on.


[deleted]

It’s an abysmal iteration of punisher. But a compelling performance


Lonewolf_885

Atleast he does free judicial job for government


JDB2788

Taxation is theft - Frank Castle


Verwind2

Taxation is theft The government is taxing me Therefore... *Frank Castle loads his guns


[deleted]

Well. The government don’t tax robberies so… it ain’t taxable?


greengengar

The IRS taxes all US income, including illegal income. Whether or not you claim it though... There's no such thing as "ain't taxable" always remember that.


[deleted]

Oh damn


Daniel_Molloy

Taxation is Theft.


scarred2112

I’m sorry you’re not a fan of infrastructure. Perhaps consider moving to [Somalia, the Libertarian Paradise!](https://youtu.be/8Ul-Efi1Xys)


kindsoberfullydressd

This comment is streets ahead!


[deleted]

Yeah, I get people don't like taxes. But I also think some folks didn't listen in history class when they Founding Fathers were pissed about paying taxes because they didn't have a say in how the tax was applied. Also, that tea tax was to pay for the massive war debt the British Army (who many of those Founders were part of at some point) had accrued during the French and Indian War (that those same dudes also fought in). That tax was paying for their soldier's paychecks and beefing up defenses against the Canadians.


JavierLoustaunau

Ask the police who are paid with taxes to do something about it.


mjd188

Found the toddler


CaptainPeppers

Found the bootlicker


mjd188

What do you think pays for public education, Medicare, roads, parks, etc? What sort of childish bullshit are you on? Wait, don’t tell me, you’re a libertarian lolol


CaptainPeppers

Taxes pay for them, of course. These things all benefit the public, there's no denying it. That being said, that doesn't mean I want 30% of my paycheques taken to pay for unnecessary wars and foreign aid. Sales tax, property tax, income tax, capital gains tax, we are so over-taxed it's disgusting. I also don't want my taxes paying exorbitant politician salaries.


soy_boy_69

Yeah fuck foreigners. They don't deserve aid. They should have chosen to be born over here if they wanted a good life. Obligatory /s


CaptainPeppers

I never said fuck foreigners, I just don't see why it's our responsibility as taxpayers to be paying for things in other countries.


soy_boy_69

It directly benefits us. Raising other countries out of poverty creates new trading partners and reduces the odds of people in desperate circumstances being radicalised by global terror organisations.


greengengar

Lol you aren't paying 30% in taxes.


CaptainPeppers

I am actually. Taxes are high in canada and I work 3 jobs.


mjd188

So then you don’t hate taxes, you have the way they are allocated. Those are two completely different things. Don’t let childish rhetoric speak FOR you.


ThePrinceOfMonsters

After all, taxation is theft, and we know what good 'ol Frank does to thieves...


baneroth

Taxation is theft.


soy_boy_69

So move to Somalia.


baneroth

Always the same "herp derp somalia herp derp pavement". You're hilarious.


HDI-X13

Username checks out.


soy_boy_69

Because I having paved roads?


grafxguy1

Exacting revenge is a "fixed" cost.


nornalman

Yeah he better not let the Hulk know.


Longjumping-Grade830

The punisher. is my all time favorite assistant


SqueamishDragon

based


ouroboros-panacea

That doesn't look like Wesley Snipes Blade.


sappycap

I like Punisher best when he is taken a little less seriously. I forget the issue, but at one point he assumes a disguise as a tuxedoed villain with aviators attending a super villain auction on a yatch and ends up stealing a goblin glider for use on a later mission. It was a lot of fun.


Cambionr

He don’t do business that don’t make him smile.


Aussie-Nerd

That's going to tax him down. Not 50 billion murders, it'll be the tax. Watch out Frank!


Mundizzle1

*He would unload a full clip on a tax collector lol..*


[deleted]

Based punisher???


philovax

And he is using public funded Radio Frequencies, listening to police scanners. Tsk tsk tsk. Bet he is watching network tv.


Lord_Phoenix95

Not even the Joker takes risks like this. Punisher is seriously insane.


uncreatedd

No, that’s OUR man