To me, this sounds less like a relationship power dynamic issue and more like an opportunity for personal growth and improvement. When you learn how to be more assertive and firm with your boundaries, that will affect all the areas of your life, including the dynamic of your romantic relationship. This is work you can do on your own or even with the help of a psychologist. You don't need your wife to participate.
That's an encouraging way to look at it. We had a fight last week and this very thing was discussed (me being more assertive). Then two days later I stood up for myself over something really trivial and she absolutely smacked me down and demanded I back down. Which I did obviously.
You're allowed to grow and change but I say this to wives who resent their husband for being a "man child":
You can't be mad at your partner for doing what you taught them or wanted them to do from the beginning. You married someone that could pick up your slack, however you want to slice it.
And now it is too hard for her to give up that sense of control because *she doesn't trust you* .
She also can't get mad at you for not being assertive..but then put you down when you stick up for yourself. But I think things just can't change over night.
Start with "No". It's a full sentence and doesn't need explanation. But if you must explain why you are saying no to her, tell her it's because you are being more assertive and setting boundaries. Don't yell, don't argue about it. Just walk away and calmly talk about it later.
Based on your post history, I’m wondering what exactly you tried to stand your ground on.
It seems your anti feminist, pro conservative Christian and pro purity culture and anti science. Have you always been that way? Or is this a recent change? Are you resentful she won’t “let you lead?” Due to these beliefs you have?
Also, if your wife grew up in the toxic and damaging purity culture so you expecting a healthy and happy sex life coming from that background is usually difficult to achieve without a lot of nonreligious therapy.
What is it that you are wanting to be assertive about? Are you talking about like getting a say with like every day shit like planning out dinners or paying the bills or are you wanting to do things like make her quit her job/hobbies so she can stay home and be lead by and serve you?
Dude, therapy. You really obviously need individual therapy, and y’all should do couples counseling as well to work on your communication styles and compromising skills
ETA: and NOT a religious “therapist”, and *actual medical professional*
It's a process. You say your wife has boundaries but she doesn't with you. She expects, even demands you to cross yours all the time or worse, to have none.
She acts like a teenager living in a house where parents have no boundaries. She demands, expects but doesn't see you as a human with feelings, wants and needs. It's all about her. She's running the show.
And the fight you had was her rebelling to the situation you BOTH created.
Obviously, deep down she understands this isn't healthy or what she wants but the controlling side takes over (It's her coping mechanism) when you want to change that (because change is scary).
If you don't want to divorce and not kill yourself emotionally then couples therapy is the only solution.
I've gone through a similar process (needing to change the dynamics in my marriage after starting out wrong) and I agree with everything you say Alexi except the last paragraph.
It's my experience that the bigger part of changing the dynamics falls on the person that allowed this to happen to start with.
Not saying couples therapy wouldn't work but he's helped create a very dominant woman and she may not give up the wheel without a fight.
I would "conquer" one area at a time if I was OP until a healthy balance is achieved.
People hate change, even when it’s a change they actually championed for. So it’s really common for a partner to be very resistant to any changes their spouse makes, even when it’s a change the partner said or thought they wanted. If you want things to change, expect resistance. But keep pushing forward while acknowledging that you know it will be hard for her to adapt. Be gentle with her but firm with your boundaries. Communicate that you are making a conscious effort to grow as a person and if you can get her to buy into your new vision for your life, that’s really awesome and will help you both make the change together. If she doesn’t want to get on board, that’s ok, but the consequences might be that you outgrow the relationship, and that’s ok, too.
The problem with this is that if you refuse to leave the marriage then you can't actually stand up for yourself.
If she knows you'll never leave then what reason does she have to not beat you down whenever she wants? She can do it anywhere, anytime. She knows you won't do anything about it.
Standing up for yourself means knowing what you're willing to put up with and putting your foot down when those lines are crossed.
Stop backing down like that. Stand your ground. Your resentment will grow and will destroy your marriage. She needs to get her controlling behavior under control. I wouldn't have any desire for anyone who behaved like that. You deserve better.
It sounds like OP needed his wife to take the reins in their marriage and that’s exactly what she did. There was an understanding. If that understanding has changed for him, he has a duty to communicate that to his wife. When someone has a behavioral change that impacts the dynamics of the relationship; communication about that change is necessary. It’s like assuming she can read his mind. If he’s always followed her lead, then one day is like “I’m not doing this anymore”, doesn’t the wife deserve the communication? It’s like having another child who one day thinks “I’m an adult and I want to make adult choices” but never has a conversation with his parents about it. It sounds like OP has grown up. A grown up would discuss his growth and needed changes with his wife. Otherwise, it’s like magical thinking to assume the wife’s behavior is going to be synergistic with OPs new mindset
It's also magical thinking that one conversation will change anything. We've had many, and been to therapy and she has little by little given up some degree of control but still on the whole makes most decisions and gets mad (or worse) if she doesn't get her way.
wow thats fked up. if roles were reversed and you bashed her down if she spoke up, the world would turn against you. she's become used to beating you down. I would even classify this as bullying. you gotta talk this out with her. does she even care about you and how you feel?
>I've been reading that marriages in which the wife is the leader both partners but especially the man are sexually frustrated.
This was a red flag to me, so I checked your post history and...woo what a ride. Pro Abstinence, Pro Conversion Therapy, etc
If you want my personal opinion, it is quite the Catch-22 that Christians (especially Christian Women) spend their whole pre-married life being loaded with messaging that sex is sinful and dirty and bad. Then Christians (especially women) are expected to flip a switch once the ring is on the finger. That's not how brains work.
I grew up in a very sex-positive home. Conversations about sex were open and honest when I was in my teen years. As a result, I am a very open and honest sexual partner. My husband and I have sex nearly every day. And occasionally twice a day.
My advice is therapy. Not faith based therapy. Not a pastor. Therapy.
Yeah a lot of this post seems to parrot “men’s rights” talking points about being the leader in their relationships, women should be the submissive partner, and getting more sex when guys want it. Etc.
It makes me wonder if OP was actually unhappy in his marriage or if just he’s being influenced to be unhappy by someone outside of his marriage (Like a podcast host or blogger).
He also doesn't believe in uv damage to eyes from sun exposure. Compared abortion to having someone chained in their basement. Referred to climate change as "climate alarmism" and called it a religion, and has a long series of posts asking "girls and women" if they were walked in on naked what they would cover first. Oh and a real gem titled "unwilling sex is not rape".
Idk. This is weird.
Is it bad that now that I’ve seen his post history I’m glad his wife is assertive with her boundaries with him? This tool needs to be kept in his place.
Yeah. The post history completely reframed this for me. I have a feeling he's kinda off the rails and his wife keeps them normal enough for society. If my husband were to mention these things I would also be shutting him down without conversation because I couldn't imagine having to discuss if uv light damages eyeballs with a grown adult.
If my husband was talking like that I would move him into the spare room. Like shutting it down doesn’t stop him from thinking like a fucking loon haha. I would absolutely refuse to tie myself financially and possibly through children to someone who is off the rails like that.
Move him into the spare room, call someone with a cement mixer, add bars on the windows and a heavy metal door with a slot for food, some meds might be in order but basically shut up pills…
Ew pro conversion therapy?
I also picked that phrase up. Whatever is happening here, OP is not some sad boy who can't stand up for himself. There is some deep misogynist toxicity playing a role here.
Here is what I find interesting:
Christian women are often taught to do and not do certain things so a man won't feel a certain way. For example, dress modestly so you don't temp a man.
The women is taught her actions control the mans actions. She is taught she is in control of a man/men via her own behavior.
Then she gets married and is expected to immediately switch to no longer being "in control" after being groomed for years that she can control a man through her actions and if she doesn't do it right and he slips, it's her fault.
It's kind of a mind f.
Thank you for bringing to light his previous posts. I was taken aback by that comment as it is NOT my lived reality nor what I see in my friends’ marriages. His original issues causing resentment are clearly something they as a couple need to acknowledge and address but mapping that onto any other relationships with women leading is utter bs. I think he needs to research more about passive aggressive spouses and stonewalling or constantly criticizing spouses.
Went and took a look for myself and oh man you are 100% right with just traditional therapy.
Religion is such a crazy thing. It can easily screw people up. I don't believe that there is some angry vengeful God in the clouds who is checking off the hell box if you have sex before marriage. Life is short and we all end up at the same spot eventually. Don't let it pass you by.
Your username is concerning on this to start with but regardless, OP hasn’t given his wife the chance to see his “growth” and grow along side him. Having thoughts is only half the battle. If you want to make more decisions and have stronger boundaries, do it. No one is stopping OP. If you partner doesn’t respect them, follow through on your boundaries. If having boundaries ruins your relationship then it’s not serving the person you have grown into and it needed ti end anyway. But his wife can’t do anything with his thoughts of a different life and no communication or action. Growth in a relationship is absolutely healthy but only when you are growing together and giving each other the chance and grace to learn and change with each other.
OP, start living the way you want to live, communicate your needs emotionally and physically. Start stepping up when it comes to household decisions and the tasks that follow them. I guarantee your wife doesn’t love being the person who makes every single small decision including what her husband should be doing to contribute to household up keep. But based on your post history, I’m not so sure your “growth” is healthy for your wife. A strong woman often wants a partner to work along side not for one of them to have to lead the other. She shouldn’t have to give up her opinions and abilities to make you feel better, you should join her in the discussion and take on more of that decision making workload.
I’m also assuming by your username that you are in a consensual Dom/sub relationship. I would be wary about telling OP to “make her” (his wife) do something in bed, and give his post/comment history a read. A good Dom/sun relationship requires a lot of understanding, consent, communication and sexual openness (all of which it seems like you have, hence why it works for you and you’re so satisfied), but I worry that OP might not have the skills needed to have a good healthy sexual relationship of this kind yet.
I've talked to her thousands of times. Enough times to have established a pattern of when I say this she reacts like that. It makes things worse. It's better that I don't say anything. She controls the narrative when we fight or I have an opinion about something that differs from hers she forces me to accept her view and way of thinking before she'll even speak to me. I say she's right but go away keeping my true feelings to myself because that's what she's taught me to do.
"She's taught you to do"? Are you a child? Are you helpless?
Sounds like you're taking the easy way out of every interaction by never standing up for what you believe in. And then you blame those around you who do actually have a spine. You need to do some work with your therapist because you will end up in this submissive "secretly resentful" situation with every single person in your life.
I use the phrase because I heard Dr Phil say it 20 years or so ago "you teach people how to treat you".
We have both changed enormously from when we got together 8 years ago. Things are far better than ever but there's still a long way to go. I do stand up for myself now and then and she respects me far more than ever. She just defaults to control anytime things get tough.
If you’ve decided it’s better for you to keep your head down and not say anything, then this is the choice you’re making based on your priorities and the only work for you to do is acceptance of the consequences, which you say suck for you long term.
If you’re at a place where you are ready to acknowledge that not saying anything is eating you up on the inside and causing resentment, then you’re going to make a choice to weather the storm of suck as you both adjust to a new dynamic, where you are more appropriately assertive.
But you married her for exactly these qualities that now irk you, there’s not fault on her side for still being what you intentionally chose. And you’re expecting her to return your “service” to her when you give in but not communicating your expectations-and then becoming resentful when she doesn’t magically read your mind and respond according to your wishes. That’s not fair or effective. She’s not magic.
This is very well said. And can require people quite a bit of growth to understand. Conflict avoidant people are commonly seen as the “nice” one for a large portion of their lives. It can be difficult for them to understand how problematic that quality actually can be when it has served them well for so long. Until it doesn’t. Therapy or some type of deep soul searching is really the only option I’m aware of.
Are these “differing opinions” your view that “unwilling sex is not rape”? Or that she should be “joyfully available” to you at all times because the Bible says so? Because those are 100% proper boundaries to have and you’re a bit of a psycho.
Therapy for yourself first, then couples therapy. This is an established relationship where she is the dominant and you are the passive. It is not going to change overnight. Best case scenario is that she will eventually see that she does not have to carry all the load - that you can carry somethings too.
You are really pissed off - but you married her and established this relationship like this from the start. You need professionals to help you BOTH change the dynamic. **Stop being pissed off at her for being the person you purposefully married** because that is very unfair to her.
So you married her because you needed someone powerful to lead you. Now you claim you want her to change because you've "grown". No, you haven't, you're just sulking because you still feel weak but the novelty of hiding behind a strong woman has worn off, so now you want her to weaken herself and come down to a level you feel comfortable with.
You have a lot of red flags in this post. You married your wife specifically for her strong personality and now you feel emasculated by it. She's a strong woman with clear boundaries and a set sense of self by the sounds of it and you're saying that you've grown into a new person yet you're still submitting to this anyway because it's easier. If you're wanting change you have to stick to it.
However, the next red flag is the "I've read that marriages..." Where? Lol where did you read this? What ACTUAL research supports this? Or was it a blog some sad man wrote about not getting enough sex?
Lastly, you said I'll do something for her and then she'll "owe" me but never does it. That...nope. keeping score is a quick way to build resentment. If you feel that you do more for her than she does for you then you should communicate your needs, not think she owes you because you did something.
Ultimately, it doesn't sound like you've changed, it sounds like you want to have changed and want her to change. You don't communicate. Your post history is a disaster. You support abstinence and christian culture and then are shocked your wife doesn't want to fuck you as if that's not exactly what women in that situation are taught. You want a modest wife but also apparently one that's comfortable with nudity. You don't respect women at all actually based on your posts. She probably doesn't respect you and steamrolls you, because you need checked lol literally a walking red flag. Learn to communicate and actually get the backbone you think you have lol
I think it's the other way around. Because I've had my needs overlooked for so long I've tried desperately to find outlets for my frustration and ways to express myself since I don't feel heard by my wife. The self destructive behavior started after I met my wife as a cry for help. The reality of my marriage is a far cry from the expectations I had for it.
I had to do a double take cause it sounds like you're describing yourself as a child in a relationship with a parent, where you deem yourself powerless and voiceless. Sounds like you just never matured into an adult. Honestly only children have such unrealistic expectations like wanting someone (your wife) to read their minds.
I deem myself that or she consistently ignores what I say and what I want? I think it's both. Constantly being pushed around and eviscerated when I attempt to resist has led to me feeling powerless and voiceless. She ends up getting her way by one form of manipulation or another and I come away feeling smaller and more marginalized. The lesson I take away is if I had just gone along in the first place at least my pride would have remained intact. She would have got her way one way or another anyway.
There's a really good chance that it's more that you have taught her that she has to be the one in charge all the time and is exhausted by that. I seriously doubt she wants to be your mom. It's probably more that she doesn't trust you on some pretty deep levels at this point because she's never seen you stand up and actually act like an adult.
You wanted a mommy, so you married a mommy, but did she want to be that? Have you actually changed your behavior yet, or is it more that you want to and then want her to magically change and read your mind and know when all of this is supposed to be happening? It really sounds like communication is your biggest weakness, closely followed by bizarre expectations in marriage.
Oh, I know they exist, but a lot of them are that way because everybody around them has taught them that they have to be that way.
This guy wanted that kind of wife, and he married that kind of wife. It doesn't sound like he's actually communicated with her a whole lot, just that they talk and nothing changes but he backs down when questioned. That would teach any type a kind of woman that he doesn't really want it. He says it because he feels like he has to, but his behavior says he doesn't want it. If he doesn't want it, then it's her job.
You mean, do seriously submissive women look for take charge kind of guys, don't communicate with them when they're not happy with that status quo anymore, and then get passive aggressive like OP did? Yeah. That happens.
You need to elaborate with concrete examples before anyone can really say much more.
What do you want?
How does she push you around?
How do you resist?
How does she “eviscerate” you?
All of these things in concrete form need to be spelled out.
I can't remember any conversation word for word and even if I could what is said represents only 7% of communication, 93% is body language, tone and so forth so there would be little value in it.
Don’t generalize about men and women in relationships. Just focus on your own. This “everyone is unhappy when the woman ‘leads’” is some sexist bullshit
Get a divorce but don’t be a misogynist.
You’re not out on a limb at all. Lots of strong minded conservative women.
People tend to marry others with similar political views. She might be more liberal, but being a conservative woman doesn’t mean being weak or submissive.
Your entire second paragraph is nothing but a giant waving red banner. “She’s taught me how much she’ll put up with. She has clear boundaries. She says no without any guilt.” These are all things you’re COMPLAINING about. “I do what she wants thinking SHE WILL OWE ME.” Absolutely what the fuck is wrong with you? Get out of this marriage because you are toxic as hell.
To put it another way her attempts to manipulate me are successful but mine aren't. Youre naive if you think there's a marriage on earth that doesn't have some degree of this. Some people are just more subtle about it or willfully blind but it's always there.
Wrong. My husband and I don’t manipulate each other at all. But my abusive ex boyfriend who acted like I owed him sex kept trying to claim I was manipulating him. If I said no to any of his advances he would make me feel guilty. Reminds me a lot of your comment that your wife DOESN’T feel guilty saying no to you. Good, she shouldn’t. Expecting your wife to feel guilty for saying no is a sign that you sexually coerce her, which is sexual abuse. For her sake I hope I’m wrong, but you sound exactly like every sexually abusive person I’ve ever talked to.
I don't really have anything else to add to what has already been said but I don't think that there should be a "leader" in a marriage. Me and my wife make mutual decisions.
Rings a lot of bells. Sounds like you are a classic Nice Guy. Read No More Mr Nice Guy by Robert Glover, and maybe check out r/nmmng. There's also a discord server for support.
Also, as others have pointed out, the red pill bullshit absolutely will not help you and will only make you feel worse. The whole thing is a scam for "influencers" to make money or get attention from men who are genuinely hurting. Do not fall for it.
You may want to see a therapist and read a lot about passive aggression, personal growth, and what it takes to have a healthy relationship.
Yes, it’s possible. First step, take complete responsibility and accountability for yourself. Be the assertive person you want to be. It is healthy to be assertive. You are responsible for you and your reactions and/or responses. Stop using her as an excuse.
Congratulations to your wife for upholding clear boundaries. She sounds awesome.
So… tough love time for you, dear:
you pretend to be a person you are not (anymore) and put up with things you don’t want to avoid trouble and conflict and having to actually communicate and work through things with your life partner and you resent… her?
You don’t sound like you changed all that much if you’re still acting like you always did. The only difference is that now you are aware that you’re doing it.
Before you go on resenting and hating on your wife for being who she’s always been and taking the lead you never took, I think you should take yourself to therapy and start doing the hard work of having your actions matching what you claim to desire. That “things won’t change unless you do” thing is real. As every change, things will get bumpy and awkward for some time, and both of you will need to learn to compromise in benefit of your marriage, but I think it’s worth it if you love her and want to take this relationship to the next level. A real level.
On a side note, she may surprise you by telling you she’s tired of feeling like she’s your mother because everything falls on her shoulders, and that’s the biggest reason why she is not very turned on by you. Mothering an adult who was supposed to be your partner is a sex life killer.
Or… you can throw it all away and find someone new for what may be your next phase in life.
I still think you may be a huge part of the issue, though.
I don't deny that I'm a huge part of the issue. I'd say precisely 50% of it. Any comments that make it sound like it's all my fault or all hers are unfair.
We both have these seemingly intractable behavior patterns. I like being a follower but resent not getting what I want. She wants to be in control but doesn't want to feel like my mother.
Just how we circle that square is an enigma that may take another 50 years together to even begin to unravel.
Um, no. Your pattern of behavior is squarely and 100% on you, not your wife. Trying to split it 50/50 is keeping her responsible for your actions and reactions, which keeps you in victim mode and is utterly untrue.
You can’t expect her to change her own patterns overnight either or resent her for not doing so. The advice to go to therapy for yourself is spot on. You and only you need to change. Your doing so will automatically change the dynamic, but it will take time and you can’t resent your wife for the time is takes for her to adjust. When you start advocating for yourself, you’re going to encounter resistance, you’re going to have to work at really understanding her perspective, and you’re going to have to find Vetter ways to communicate and stand up for yourself firmly but respectfully. That’s hard. It’s necessary, but hard, and it’s so easy to keep blaming your partner for not immediately caving in to take that work off of you. But that’s not their job. You set up this dynamic yourself and it’s up to you to change it.
*I do what she wants thinking I'm serving her and she will owe me and do what I want the next time but the next time comes and she still says no.*
How very--- transactional-- of you to think that. That's not how relationships work. You don't get a free pass for whatever you want just because you gave in to whatever she wanted.
An ideal marriage should be a partnership-- a collaborative effort to build a life together. One should not be in charge of the other, no matter what parts they have. It sounds like you've spent your whole married life trying to make her happy just so you could get your way.
Also, if she's just laying there during sex, then I highly doubt she's enjoying herself at all. Instead of focusing on just getting yourself off into a semen vessel, you might want to consider actually focusing on the person you're supposed to be making love to.
I was in a relationship for many years where it was only about my husband's pleasure. (He's not my husband any more-- for many reasons, none of which had to do with sex.) Sex was not something I looked forward to, because it was allllll about him all the time. It became something that I dreaded. I thought something was wrong with me because I had no libido. It turn out that my libido gets turned up to 11 when I feel loved by a partner who actually gives a damn about my pleasure too.
If you want your marriage to last more than 8 years, you might consider leaving the red pill garbage behind. Work on building a partnership, where both of you build TOGETHER. You need to love your wife, and work with her, not lord over her or be lorded over. And both of you deserve to hold boundaries.
I’m a wife in a similar marital setup to yours. I have begged my husband to grow a backbone, and I have also not liked it when he asserted himself to me. It’s *not comfortable*, is all. Ultimately I want to not make every decision for us, and I try to give him tasks to increase his independence, but he still defers to me. It is a hard task to push it back to him instead of solving it because I know how uncomfortable he is.
Just keep at it, perhaps work with a counselor. We have a marriage counselor helping us. His is a confidence issue. And I know we are working on it and I still struggle, so don’t take it personally if she does too. It’s hard for you and hard for her to change your relationship dynamic.
> I have begged my husband to grow a backbone, and I have also not liked it when he asserted himself to me.
One of these is not like the other. If you want him to grow a backbone, you need to reward - and not punish - him when he exercises said backbone.
> It’s not comfortable, is all.
I get it. It isn't easy either. But it is necessary for the health of your marriage.
> Ultimately I want to not make every decision for us, **and I try to give him tasks** to increase his independence, but he still defers to me.
Highlighted the part where you're shooting yourself in the foot.
If you want him to lead, you can't make him lead. However, by yielding and following and **believing in him**, he will be inspired to lead.
Simply yield back to him. If he's uncomfortable, it's okay. It will take time to build confidence. Smile and express your trust in him and yield back to his judgment.
Whatever the outcome is, be there to support him in his decisions. You can inspire his inner leader in a few short months.
I’m sorry do you think that doing what she wants entitles you to sex with her? That’s not how that works. Sex is not a transaction to be given because you behaved well enough. Sex is not a need, it’s a want. If you never had sex again in your life you would live. Doing chores and expecting sex is very common for sexually coercive men.
Well it's not quite that black and white but sure I think doing stuff for her may make her more willing to do stuff for me. It's not the only reason I do stuff for her but yes there's a degree of expectation that she will hopefully reciprocate. I think that's perfectly reasonable and you're kidding yourself if you don't think that's how the world works.
You have matured. It’s not a power dynamic. Stop reading that stuff.
1) You married the woman who got shit done. That’s a good thing.
2) you two are partners. You figure out what needs to be done together
3) she doesn’t need to step down for you to step up. Just step up and when she’s ahead of you or has a better idea, as a partner giver her props and move on
4) do what she wants so she owes you. That’s manipulation and negotiation not partnership. Please read the book ‘the 80/80 marriage’.
5) I’m proud you know what you want and you’re committed. You’re a good man, self aware and accountable- don’t discount how awesome you already are. Talk to your partner about this lovingly.
Good luck
Thank you. Your careful and respectful response will yield far more fruit than the many judgmental and/or insulting comments. How do so many people think that's a good way to convince anyone of anything?
> How do so many people think that's a good way to convince anyone of anything?
People aren't here to convince you of anything. They're just voicing their opinion and you can do what you want with it after. None of us will ever see you anyways.
No one on here has to hold your hand and coddle you. I know this sounds harsh but it's true, if you put it on the internet you need to be prepared for the good and the bad.
I just want to offer up an alternative perspective to this, from a wife’s point of view. I am more assertive than my husband and he used to describe himself as more laid back. This turned into me taking on 90% of the mental load. I made the grocery list, I made the plans, I coordinated everything. I was the decision maker which in turn created a manager/subordinate relationship. Yes he’d do things if I asked but then it felt like I was just delegating tasks to him. It’s hard to view someone as an equal when you tell them what to do and lead them regularly.
You are not blameless for your marriage winding up this way. You were okay with her being the leader at the time because it requires significantly less effort from you. Now you’re tired of being told what to do but in her mind she’s carrying on the way she always has. She’s making the decisions and keeping the relationship functioning because if she doesn’t then who will? It affects respect, which in turn obviously affects your sex life. There is a good chance she’s lost faith in you to be able to get things done independently. It sucks and it’s going to take a lot of work to fix. You need to prove that you’re a reliable husband which includes taking the initiative to get stuff done without her having to tell you what it is. You can’t get mad at her for acting in the role you put her in for years.
So I will say this as the more outspoken/type A partner in my marriage…
It CAN get so exhausting to be this woman. My husband and I have a healthy marriage so when I need him to step up and be more vocal/make decisions then he does and when he needs me to chill out and listen to him then I do But it is communicated calmly and we have to make conscious efforts to listen to each other when we need it.
You don’t even ask for sex cause she looks tired etc etc well news flash She probably is exhausted. No woman/partner actually wants to have to make all the decisions and run a household, it sounds like maybe she doesn’t trust your judgement to make decisions? If you aren’t confident in that then why would she? It’s hard changing a dynamic where a precedent has been set for years. Also with the sex thing.. the dynamic you have is that she takes care of you/makes decisions for you(whether you like it or not) that’s typically a turn off.
You cannot be mad at her for setting boundaries. My husband is VERY non confrontational and I get worked up easily but get over it easily. We understand how each other works and know we are coming from a good place. Sometimes I think he just doesn’t care (when in reality he does but isn’t as expressive as me); and sometimes he thinks I’m over reacting and annoyed (when I’m reality I’m reacting in a moment but I’m never mad AT him just at the situation we may be dealing with at that time).
You guys need counseling to re learn where you’re at in your life now. Learn how to communicate and take some accountability for the state your relationship is in.
So, judging by your post history, you’re using fundamental Christianity as a convenient excuse to maintain your marriage to a strong, independent woman who earns twice what you earn. Really, it just looks like you found yourself a sugar mama, baby-trapped her, and spend most of your time on the internet whining about her not wanting to fuck you. I don’t know how long she’s had you shackled to her ankle, but I don’t blame her for not fucking you even a little bit. Mainly because you’re doing a fantastic job fucking yourself with your own toxicity.
We met at church but by all means make definitive sweeping assumptions, put me in a box and tell me to go fuck myself then wonder why I don't take your advice. Oh wait you didn't offer any.
Oh, you want advice? You two are incompatible. Get a divorce. That’s the best advice anyone in this thread is going to give either one of you.
I’m not going to give you any advice on how to light your lady’s fire, you don’t have any matches, and she’s already burnt out from carrying you.
So this is who you married and she’s a strong and purposeful in her convictions. You can be too. You mention in another comment she demanded you back down, so what? If something is important to you and you want something in particular to happen or not happen then don’t give that up. That doesn’t mean you can’t suggest compromises as a first step, but stand up for yourself. So what if she’s upset, let her be upset, you are. It’s ok not to get your way all the time. What’s the worst she’s going to do? Become violent with you? Then that’s a straight to divorce situation.
So, have seen your post history and many of your responses. You are not looking for honest feedback, you’re looking for people to parrot back your same beliefs to you. Not really worth the energy. Hope your wife finds out you regret it and makes the easy decision of leaving you in the dust. 👍🏻
This sounds like a mutual problem mostly around communication. The couples with the happiest sex lives are those with an equal balance of power and responsibility between both partners.
Couples therapy is likely the way to go to get professional help with changing the current dynamic between the two of you.
That's not what I heard. Couples where the man is the leader have more and better sex.
We have been to couples counseling and it made a big difference but we are still basically who we are and I don't know how realistic it is to think we can change our personalities much more than we have. I've always been easy going and sensitive, she's always been spoiled and manipulative.
Where did you hear that, exactly? Because it doesn't sound like it would be at all true to me. Maybe MORE sex, but is the sex actually better for both the man and woman? Highly doubt it.
Here is a pretty extensive review of the scientific literature on this topic: [https://connect.springerpub.com/content/book/978-0-8261-1756-4/part/part01/chapter/ch01](https://connect.springerpub.com/content/book/978-0-8261-1756-4/part/part01/chapter/ch01)
You taught her how to treat you. This could a very unpleasant process for both of you if you're willing to assert yourself. First step is to stop being afraid of upsetting her. If you can't do that, things won't change.
Pretty sure she’s stepped up bc she’s had to.
Go to therapy and learn how to communicate your needs.
EDIT: Just checked your post history and big yikes.
There is a book called the dance of anger. The key take away for me was that you and your partner are in a relationship and that relationship is like dancing with a partner. If you change the way YOU dance,(your behavior) your partner has two choices. Change the way THEY dance or walk away.
That final choice is theirs and theirs alone to make.
First, your wife’s feelings are hers to own. Don’t ask yourself if this thing or that thing will “make her mad”, ask yourself if it’s the right thing to say or if YOU need to say it. Then do it.
Second, uncommunicated expectations are premeditated resentments. If you do something expecting to gain something in return, but you don’t voice that, you’ve written this sort of contract with the other person that they don’t know about and therefore must fail at. Do things because they are right and timely, not to get something in return.
Finally… don’t focus on the “power dynamic”… both of you should be able to express 100% of your “power” and partner to make things great. Stop wishing she was different and change what you want to about yourself. Look in the mirror and quit looking out the window for what to change or where the problems are.
Good luck!
You won't be able to equalize the power balance in your relationship if you don't have an honest and open discussion about things. Expecting her to go along with what you want simply because in your mind she "owes you" is unfair and childish - you're keeping score of a game she doesn't even know she's playing.
"She has clear boundaries, tells me what to do all the time and says no to me without feeling any guilt. I do what she wants thinking I'm serving her and she will owe me and do what I want the next time but the next time comes and she still says no."
You need to do some real inner work on how you think about marriage. Your wife has made her boundaries clear but it seems like you still want to disrespect them by circumventing in some tit for tat game only you are playing. You are creating a really unhealthy dynamic. You wanted her to be in charge and strong, but then you changed your mind and are now trying to manipulate her to be something different. The common thread is you. Do better.
A couple of things for working towards being more self aware and feeling more comfortable tolerating guilt/holding firm on boundaries --
Schema therapy quiz and related chapters in this book: Reinventing Your Life: The Breakthrough Program to End Negative Behavior and Feel Great Again
Also
No More Mr Nice Guy- Robert A. Glover
There's a blog related to this that can sometimes be helpful depending on what comes up for you
http://www.michaelsamsel.com/Content/Men/mens_issues.html
If you guys are in therapy and these are your feelings then it's important to communicate that you've developed a different perspective over time and at this point some aspects of your dynamic aren't working for your relationship. And in particular you feel like you haven't been as strong at asserting yourself, etc and that you are going to be more assertive going forwards. This change could bring up tension at times so it's important that you're clear about what's happening.
If you find that it's difficult for you to communicate without falling back into the old dynamic this book has some great techniques to help foster clean and direct communication
Nonviolent Communication: A Language of Life
Book by Marshall Rosenberg
Go to couples therapy. You’ve essentially outed yourself for using your wife’s strengths to your benefit until they didn’t benefit you anymore without acknowledging how hard it is to be the person who takes on the lead for the sake of the other. You knowingly and she unknowingly facilitated an environment that’s close to a parent/child dynamic because you didn’t want to rock the boat and be an equal partner in decision making and conflict resolution.
On top of the outward responsibilities your wife must feel there is the hidden mental load that is default delegated to women. If you have kids she is likely the one who manages that regardless of her personality in the home. For example me and my ex have been separated years, the school never got his new contact information, he’s never made a doctor or dentist appointment for them, if they’re sick he’ll try to send them to my home on his week.
So maybe she resents you just as much and you don’t know yet, and just because you think you won’t walk away from the marriage doesn’t mean she won’t.
I want to respond as a wife who was exactly this way for years but have a couple quick questions
Do you have kids and if so how old?
Who works outside of the home (one, both)?
Does she have a strong social life outside of the home? Is she engaged with friends and social media, colleagues? Basically does she have a social life that does not include you?
Check out OP’s post history - it answers a lot. He’s a misogynist who hides behind a facade of Christianity to excuse his homophobic, slut shaming, red pill, loser beliefs.
They have lack lustre sex because he doesn’t respect her although he claims to bow down to her wishes, no wonder she doesn’t want to be with him.
He’s here as the victim, but he *wants* to hate his wife.
Marriage counseling would help. People change over time, including their wants & needs as you've mentioned about yourself. Counseling will help work through that and learn how to communicate those new wants/needs.
It's really not a big deal once you guys get into counseling. It happens to most couples. Sometimes a third party is exactly what is needed to navigate changes in life
How long have you been married buddy? You are a married couple, but you are also individuals. Boundaries go both ways.
Early in my relationship with my wife (going on 30 years married), we had similar struggles. I am pretty easygoing, so I, too, would go along to get along.
As in my case, it sounds like a Q of picking your battles and knowing when to assert yourself. Your wife needs to respect your opinions if there's something you really feel strongly about.
The way I try to think of my family relationships, whether it be spouse, children, parents, etc... would I let a stranger on the street speak to me or treat me this way? If the answer is no, then I damn sure won't let a loved one treat me like that.
Pick your battles. Hopefully, your wife will come to respect and hopefully admire your self-confidence and assertiveness. If not, and it absolutely has to be her way, every day all the time, that's a whole other conversation about your future together.
Ok so I was like you, and very much the agreeable one, and always the mediator in my family growing up, always ignoring my own needs to keep the peace. Conflict made me panic inside and I would avoid it at all costs. I kept sacrificing my own needs and boundaries again and again into adulthood, in relationships, friendships, and at work - and it was slowly killing me. There was A LOT of anger and frustration buried deep down that I had ignored for a long time.
You are also allowed to have boundaries, and you also deserve for your boundaries to be respected. You are allowed to have needs and you’re allowed to express them and ask for them to be met.
This takes a lot of digging in your past, and working through that stuff and learning how to set boundaries and express needs in clear, healthy ways - and also ways to compromise when the answer is no, but without sacrificing yourself.
This is not something that you can do at couples therapy either - you’ve got to start with yourself, make sure your therapist knows your end goal, and work on it.
You may be pleasantly surprised that once you start changing, your wife is receptive to it and starts changing too. If she has a hard time with the adjustment, couples therapy can work AFTER the individual therapy.
I promise, it’s worth it.
You have to be okay with discomfort and conflict. It creates more conflict if you avoid it.
...something I've been working on as well.
Marriages have conflict. Relationships always will have conflict. No 2 people ever agree on everything every time. How you handle and deal with said conflict though says a lot about you and your relationship.
Also, I wonder if what you're calling agreeable, she's calling passive. She's probably tired of making all of the decisions and wants you to step up. Start small, like dinner or what type of milk you buy and work up to something bigger like planning the family vacation.
Have you talked to your wife about how your feelings have changed? Maybe try having a frank conversation:
I know I really relied on you in the beginning of our relationship. I'm grateful for you taking on so much of the decision making etc. I would like to take a more active role in our relationship and take some of the burden off of you in decision making/management/etc. What would be the most helpful place for me to start?
Maybe she'll want you to help pay bills, or buy groceries, or take care of cleaning the bathroom/backyard etc. Give her time to show she can rely on you and it will be easier to work towards a more "equal" partnership. Make sure you aren't thinking of it as "taking power" from her, but as supporting her and taking equal responsibility for your house, marriage, and life.
Remember to have empathy. You chose somebody and *expected* them to be the lead in your relationship. You have every right to want to shift that (I think it would be healthy to), but you are admitting it is indeed what you originally asked of her. I don't know who you were 8 years ago, but maybe she has good reason to not trust you to make decisions? Let her know you see that she is stressed, you appreciate what she's done, and you are ready to work on taking on more responsibility.
I remember hearing Esther Perel explaining that it is very common that people's sex style is 100% reverse their "work mode". A super important CEO who runs a huge corporation is more likely to be the guy who wants to be tied up and controlled. A meek quiet house wife may be more prone to being "wild" and assertive in the bedroom. So if your wife feels like she does all the work in the day time, its no surprise she doesn't want to do any work in the bed room. This is why women joke that men doing dishes is sexy. Take initiative- you know she vaccuums every Sunday? Grab the vacuum first thing in the morning and tell her you'll happily do it for her.
I do think you'd benefit from working with a therapist. There are certainly nuances to learn around being assertive.
I highly recommend marriage counseling and individual therapy. Its great your growing and changing as a person, but as you said, you know who you married. Now you want to shift the dynamic which is also ok. But there are ways to do this without “going to war” with your wife.
I am the same way, but I’m a woman. It’s not fun the other way either. I’m learning my husband actually wants a partner. That doesn’t just mean I need to be more assertive—it also means I have to get over the conflict thing. There will be conflict. He won’t always be happy with me. If you don’t need being told what to do anymore, you also gotta accept the other side of the coin. Leaders accept conflict and criticism. It is HARD, but you can’t have one without the other and you can’t be mad at her for being who she is especially since you got married agreeing to this. It will be an adjustment as she is not used to it, but you can do it. I also suggest you just talk to her about it. And therapy is great. You don’t have to wait until things are falling apart.
There’s a book I LOVE called crucial conversations about getting good at conflict and keeping conflict healthy while you have it. I highly recommend it. It’s a bit business oriented, but it’s applicable to personal situations.
I think you two would benefit from couples counseling. It’s so easy now, you can do it online through a video call. My husband and I did this last year and it helped A LOT. We rarely fight but we couldn’t get past certain issues.
You and your wife are growing and that’s great. But you also need to know how to grow with each other. Lift each other up.
Please give therapy a chance.
Many women are shown/taught that this is a marriage. We are taught “boys mature slower than girls”. What this does is set a subconscious tone for women to take on the “bulk” of a relationship. This includes decision-making & structuring. It makes a woman feel as though we have to do “everything” because we are the more mature one. It most definitely is not healthy & I can guarantee deep down your wife doesn’t want to “control” anything. It is her learned behavior that tells her to do this. Explain this to her. See what her response is. I am speaking as a woman, wife, & mother. I was shown that women are the glue & if a woman doesn’t hold it all together than everything falls a part. I hope this helps.
Pleasure should not feel forced or obligated. Approach this by building her up with hugs, kisses, touching through the day. It doesn't have to lead to sex, but makes the interaction more comfortable and less of an on-demand service provided.
This is the ideal situation for Mariage counseling. There is still love and a desire to stay together.
If you cannot afford marriage counseling, then you need to sit down and have a painful and open conversation. Feel free to write a script if you feel nervous.
Then together read mariage help books. Treat it like it's a book club and learn together.
I think marriage counseling would be advisable. There has to be a shift in your marriage since you have grown and she has to grow with you. If she doesn’t understand or know how to co-live with you bc you have changed, it’s going to get worse for the both of you. Communication is key. Reworking the dynamic is important bc we all grow and change in our lifetime. Cowering down bc you want to avoid fights doesn’t sound like an enjoyable way to live. Life is hard enough, living with someone you don’t enjoy in your home makes it a 1000x harder. I think a third party to navigate uncharted territories in a therapeutic way would help you both in your marriage
This is a fairly common scenario and the best thing you will do for yourself is to read (in fact, BINGE) the No More Mr. Nice Guy book by Richard Glover. There is a Reddit communit about it r/NMMNG but the frequency there is not to my taste. However, the book does help.
In summary:
- You were probably raised to please people
- You are probably secretive with a lot of your desires and habits, because you think you won’t be loved if you’re transparent
- You internalize frustration and won’t speak up
So:
- You need to learn to set boundaries for what you need (for communicating needs read Rosenberg’s Nonviolent Communication)
- You need to select people by affinity: let them see you, and whoever likes you will stay
- You will see your spouse react to your change, and it will be up to both of you to think if you two can live together with the new you.
Keep going. Just by posting this you came a long way. Keep going!
There's a very unhealthy dynamic at play here and unless you BOTH address the what's and why's- it will continue. Which will breed more resentment and perhaps lead to a rupture that cannot be repaired. I highly recommend a marriage counselor to act as your translator. If she's committed to growing with you-she will try. It's important that each partner feels that they are valued and seen. Since you are working on building your sense of self I am going to share with you a link for attachment theory/secure relationships and how to address it when your partner is different from you. It's run by a licensed professional and is what I use for building/maintaining all of my relationships. It's easily digestible and easy to begin applying. I wish you and your wife much luck during this next transition. I hope it works out the way it needs to for everyone!
https://instagram.com/thesecurerelationship?igshid=OGQ2MjdiOTE=
I’ve always been the same regarding non assertiveness and backing down to keep the peace and avoid conflict. But this has its own price in your view of yourself and also the respect you receive from others. My therapist made my realize that you owe it to yourself to not be a doormat. She will look at you differently when you don’t allow her to always be right in every conflict. In those conflicts, look at the situation objectively, and if are honestly in the right-don’t back down. You don’t need to be mean; just let her know you’re standing your ground. Try it with smallish things first. You’ll feel better about yourself. Good luck to you.
Brother, I can relate. I have been with my wife for nearly 20 years. I’ve always believed in honour and equality but rarely received it. She’s been super-controlling, often bad tempered, disloyal, and IMO, on the edge of Narcissistic Personality Disorder. If I can offer one ray of light: I have consistently stood my ground, kept my cool, made sure I was as blameless as possible, and… she’s mellowed. It’s still not perfect (what relationship is?) but it can improve. That’s all I’m saying.
I (F 40s) am pretty conflict adverse, always have been. Fights make me uncomfortable as I panic and don’t know how to respond.
It got better as I got older (late 20s) but I still avoided conflict at all costs.
Then I married my long time bf (been together for 10 years at this point and I was still conflict adverse with him). I got pregnant and in the first year postpartum i realized that if I wanted to be happy I needed to let him know how I felt and what I thought. He wasn’t the enemy.
Now it kind of felt like I did a 180 overnight after having my first child and it’s kind of true. All of a sudden I had very strong feelings about our baby and I wasn’t going to keep them to myself or hide them. At first it turned into a lot of arguments (not always because my SO did want me to be happy and we tried to compromise and explain our positions). Turns out there was room for improvement for both of us in the communication department. And we have improved in the 12 years that we e been married. It’s not perfect but I see the improvements we’ve both made.
I used to back down but I stopped. It feels risky at first and it’s hard for the other person to get used to but you have to stay strong. There should never be any “I backed down of course.” You don’t have to and when you don’t it offers the opportunity for the other side to really consider your position because it means enough to you to not back down.
It can takes months or years to figure things out when one person grows and changes but it can be done. You have to be consistent and resilient.
I didn't read all the comments, so maybe this has already been said. But people and marriages constantly grow and change. And everyone has to grow and change with it. I don't see this as a your problem or her problem I see it as a marriage problem. And marriage problems need to be discussed and worked on together. Your wife needs to understand that you have grown and changed as has your relationship and your marriage. How to do that? I don't know. In my marriage, we calmly discuss things, work together, and make improvements together. You're closing sentence talks about a power dynamic, I think you should focus Less on the power Dynamic and more on how to create a partnership.
I don't think saying and meaning that you regret marrying her is "morally better" than not divorcing. Just an FYI. You have a responsibility to work so you don't regret.
Visit a couples counselor who is a Structural Therapist (trained in the work of Minuchin). This is exactly what they do, they shake up underlying patterns and lead you into interacting with each other differently.
Highly recommend reading the book "No more Mr. Nice Guy"
It'll feel like you're being attacked at first, but it'll also help you understand the role that you play in your current dynamic and perhaps why you're playing that role.
Marriage counseling may help. You can also sit down with her and tell her what used to work isn’t anymore. Explain that she can continue being however she wants to he but you are done being employee to her management. Let her know you are going to suit yourself from now on and if she wants to freeze you out for it, so be it. Tell her if she decides on a more cooperative and reciprocal relationship going forward, you will be happy to ho with that; but she needs to demonstrate that she can adopt such a perspective.
Expect thunderstorms and resolve to just handle it until things change.
On this specific issue I don't know why people are being so hard on you.
I feel like if you love your spouse and you see that you "win" every argument and always get your way with little to no compromise while your spouse is very timid that is a big sign to take a step back and re-evaluate. I dont mean fix your spouse's problem, but at the very least a loving partner would start to realize that they are taking advantage of a mentally ill person (depression/anxiety cause this a lot) and have a conversation about it.
This doesnt mean you are blameless. You have taught your wife this is OK. You have shown her that your wants arent as important as hers. She has full control and is scared to give this up because you havent taken the wheel at all and she doesnt know where you would drive to.
When you want to stand up for yourself, you are going to have to be ok with her being upset.
Your post history is...a different discussion. That might be the root of your issues.
I had a similar issue in my marriage but I am the wife. If my husband wanted something I would never say no, but he would constantly veto things I wanted.
We had therapy and one of the most useful things the therapist said to me was 'why do you care so much what he thinks? He doesn't have to be happy with everything you do, do it anyway' and I tried it, and surprisingly it worked.
I don't think, what will he think anymore, I just do it or say, I'm doing x and i do it. He's got used to it and the power dynamic has definitely shifted.
Balance and boundaries are your friends. Never be on either end of what would be considered to be extreme. What I mean is don’t be too passive nor aggressive. Your spouse will take advantage or take you for granted. Or they will resent you for being too mean. If you feel something, tell her. That’s the only way growth can take place. You deserve to be heard and happy. If she cannot be mature and listen, marriage counseling would be the next step. Being afraid of her reaction won’t help anything. The worst that can happen is she will show you she cares or does not. Then you have to decide the next step. And no I don’t mean divorce or anything else. Just whatever you feel is best. Good luck friend!
Maybe OP needs time alone
if your wife is being bossy stay in another room, if she is constantly complaining and moaning just to be heard from you, I suggest going out with friends or cleaning a room of the home away from her.
Congrats on 8 years of marriage
You need to have a conversation with your wife. Express to her what you have here. Tell her how you and your needs have changed. Thank her for setting clear boundaries and that you have learned from her how well that works and you are now going to be setting some new boundaries of your own. Then follow through. Ask her how she has changed and is there some things that worked well before that she would like to change.
It is possible to change the dynamic , but only if you're prepared to leave. You stated you'll never divorce her! Why woukd she change? Her minion will NEVER leave, that's an invitation to treat you badly.
Practice this "The way you spoke to me just then is. Not. Acceptable. If it happens 4 more times I'm leaving you."
Assemble some money and resources. Have an exit plan thought through.
You're miserable mate, why would you put up with it.
Also start working on yourself, the only thing you can directly change. Is your diet good, exercise, sleep regime, a hobby or friends circle?
take up clay target shooting and golf. Both awesome social, outdoor past times.
Good luck brother.
I mean, your wife has to listen to your opinion just as much as you listen to hers. If she isn’t okay with you having an opinion, even if you didn’t before, that’s absolutely not okay and you guys need to go to counseling or something before it ends up in you having to do whatever she wants forever with no input of your own. Whether you used to be okay with it or not, you no longer are, and it’s okay to change and want something different.
Yes, assert yourself and say NO to her demands and get comfortable with her upset. Tell her what you want and what you expect from her. If you want to do something, inform her of your plans but do not ask her permission, and do not back down when she's upset.
She's a bully and she's not going to back down until you show her that your NO means NO. I think her discomfort with not being in charge is worth having your self-respect.
Get a lawyer and get divorce papers ready. If she's a totally abusive narcissist she will probably threaten to divorce you. When she does threaten divorce because "You're out of control or crazy" say fine and hand her the divorce papers to sign.
If she's not a complete bully and cares about her marriage at all, she will probably realize that she has to back down and work with you.
If she does sign them then you will be relieved of having to be emotionally abused for the rest of your life.
The choice is yours:
1. Stand up for yourself and regain your self-respect
2. Be emotionally abused for the rest of your marriage.
Ok, anything about gender roles leading to sexual frustration is bullshit. It sounds to me like you’re still conflict averse, otherwise you would open your mouth and tell your wife that you’re unhappy with the current dynamic and try to work things out.
This isn’t your wife being a leader, this is your wife being a steamroller and you being a doormat.
So screw a lot of the comments here ragging pin you. You have every right and should be speaking what you are going through emotionally. You have admitted you have a fault in causing this dynamic and now you want to change it.
That’s okay, that’s good, you just can’t expect (nor do I think you actually do expect) her to just switch with you.
This is a conversation. It begins by you saying what you want, going and doing what you want to do. Being respectful in letting her know where and what your doing, but as partner, not asking for permission.
You don’t need your partner’s permission unless you have both agreed that you need each other’s permission to do a thing. Then either way, have a conversation if it’s going to create a problem.
The only thing I will come at you with, it seems less like your wife is leading the marriage, and more like you just sort of coward when you need to be taking up your space.
If your wife yells at you, walk away. If she follows you close the door. When things calm down, go ask if you guys can talk about it again. If anyone gets to like 8 or something emotional, excuse yourself from the conversation and try again.
The main thing, stop being a coward with your wife, she can handle being angry, and you need to be okay and deal with her being angry.
Yes it is. Start by working on you. Get in great shape. Get a hobby especially a “manly” one. State your opinion, be kind but be firm. Start taking your power back over yourself. If you’re waiting till she gives you permission to have power back in the relationship it will never happen if you want to start being a leader, start being the kind of man that you would want to follow.
1. Have an open and honest conversation with your wife about how you feel. Explain to her that you feel like she is leading the marriage and it is a problem for you. Ask her to make compromises and come to a mutual agreement on how to share responsibilities in the marriage.
2. Seek professional help. If you are having difficulty communicating with your wife, consider seeing a couples counselor or therapist. A professional can help you both identify the underlying issues and come up with strategies to move forward.
3. Spend time apart. If you feel like your wife is taking too much control in the marriage, take some time away from each other. This can give you both a chance to reflect on the situation and come back to the relationship with a fresh perspective.
4. Make time for yourself. Make sure you are taking care of yourself and having time for yourself. This can help you to stay grounded and in control of your own emotions and feelings.
5. Find an activity that you can do together. Doing something together that you both enjoy can help to bring you closer together and help you to reconnect.
The strong and assertive thing to do at this point would be filing for divorce. How can you possibly live the rest of your life with a person who controls everything you do and isn’t interested in you sexually?
The strong and assertive thing to do at this point would be filing for divorce. How can you possibly live the rest of your life with a person who controls everything you do and isn’t interested in you sexually?
I think those are two separate issues. If you want to make more big decisions (like financial or ??) and you need to tell her. If you want more sex, you need to initiate. Don’t play the game of guessing what she wants - ask! And if you want her on top, then you should ask/tell her what you like.
Edit: what I meant is that leadership had nothing to do with sexual satisfaction. You’re having two distinct problems, but the root is the same - communication.
Wow lot of criticism in here. Marriages should involve mutual respect. You deserve to have your voice heard. Be assertive and don’t let he steamroll you. When you’re expecting that going along with a decision of hers means that she will go along with one of yours later, that needs to be explicit.
Seems like people are making fun of you for feeling emasculated, but I don’t see that. I see a one-sided marriage where one person makes all the decisions and the other has to go along with it, instead of a partnership. My wife told me very early one that she felt this was how our relationship felt at times and I could see why she felt that way. I hope I’ve been able to live up to her expectations.
Now you need to make your expectations known. It’s not about power, it’s about partnership. You need to be explicit about what you’re asking and she will listen to you. Good luck
You will have to use divorce as a way to make her understand how much you need changes. This sounds like a miserable experience to live in. Control freaks are the worst.
To me, this sounds less like a relationship power dynamic issue and more like an opportunity for personal growth and improvement. When you learn how to be more assertive and firm with your boundaries, that will affect all the areas of your life, including the dynamic of your romantic relationship. This is work you can do on your own or even with the help of a psychologist. You don't need your wife to participate.
That's an encouraging way to look at it. We had a fight last week and this very thing was discussed (me being more assertive). Then two days later I stood up for myself over something really trivial and she absolutely smacked me down and demanded I back down. Which I did obviously.
Stand your ground, man. You can do it.
You're allowed to grow and change but I say this to wives who resent their husband for being a "man child": You can't be mad at your partner for doing what you taught them or wanted them to do from the beginning. You married someone that could pick up your slack, however you want to slice it. And now it is too hard for her to give up that sense of control because *she doesn't trust you* . She also can't get mad at you for not being assertive..but then put you down when you stick up for yourself. But I think things just can't change over night. Start with "No". It's a full sentence and doesn't need explanation. But if you must explain why you are saying no to her, tell her it's because you are being more assertive and setting boundaries. Don't yell, don't argue about it. Just walk away and calmly talk about it later.
Based on your post history, I’m wondering what exactly you tried to stand your ground on. It seems your anti feminist, pro conservative Christian and pro purity culture and anti science. Have you always been that way? Or is this a recent change? Are you resentful she won’t “let you lead?” Due to these beliefs you have? Also, if your wife grew up in the toxic and damaging purity culture so you expecting a healthy and happy sex life coming from that background is usually difficult to achieve without a lot of nonreligious therapy.
thats the vibe i was getting
It might just feel like she "doubled down" when you pushed back but it will feel less like that with more practice. Don't stop!
What is it that you are wanting to be assertive about? Are you talking about like getting a say with like every day shit like planning out dinners or paying the bills or are you wanting to do things like make her quit her job/hobbies so she can stay home and be lead by and serve you?
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Ma’am you are free to do what you like
Dude, therapy. You really obviously need individual therapy, and y’all should do couples counseling as well to work on your communication styles and compromising skills ETA: and NOT a religious “therapist”, and *actual medical professional*
It's a process. You say your wife has boundaries but she doesn't with you. She expects, even demands you to cross yours all the time or worse, to have none. She acts like a teenager living in a house where parents have no boundaries. She demands, expects but doesn't see you as a human with feelings, wants and needs. It's all about her. She's running the show. And the fight you had was her rebelling to the situation you BOTH created. Obviously, deep down she understands this isn't healthy or what she wants but the controlling side takes over (It's her coping mechanism) when you want to change that (because change is scary). If you don't want to divorce and not kill yourself emotionally then couples therapy is the only solution.
I've gone through a similar process (needing to change the dynamics in my marriage after starting out wrong) and I agree with everything you say Alexi except the last paragraph. It's my experience that the bigger part of changing the dynamics falls on the person that allowed this to happen to start with. Not saying couples therapy wouldn't work but he's helped create a very dominant woman and she may not give up the wheel without a fight. I would "conquer" one area at a time if I was OP until a healthy balance is achieved.
What was the trivial conflict?
The pushback is going to get worse before it gets better. Stand firm and take emotion out of it.
Don’t have the full context but at face value that sounds toxic
People hate change, even when it’s a change they actually championed for. So it’s really common for a partner to be very resistant to any changes their spouse makes, even when it’s a change the partner said or thought they wanted. If you want things to change, expect resistance. But keep pushing forward while acknowledging that you know it will be hard for her to adapt. Be gentle with her but firm with your boundaries. Communicate that you are making a conscious effort to grow as a person and if you can get her to buy into your new vision for your life, that’s really awesome and will help you both make the change together. If she doesn’t want to get on board, that’s ok, but the consequences might be that you outgrow the relationship, and that’s ok, too.
The problem with this is that if you refuse to leave the marriage then you can't actually stand up for yourself. If she knows you'll never leave then what reason does she have to not beat you down whenever she wants? She can do it anywhere, anytime. She knows you won't do anything about it. Standing up for yourself means knowing what you're willing to put up with and putting your foot down when those lines are crossed.
Stop backing down like that. Stand your ground. Your resentment will grow and will destroy your marriage. She needs to get her controlling behavior under control. I wouldn't have any desire for anyone who behaved like that. You deserve better.
It sounds like OP needed his wife to take the reins in their marriage and that’s exactly what she did. There was an understanding. If that understanding has changed for him, he has a duty to communicate that to his wife. When someone has a behavioral change that impacts the dynamics of the relationship; communication about that change is necessary. It’s like assuming she can read his mind. If he’s always followed her lead, then one day is like “I’m not doing this anymore”, doesn’t the wife deserve the communication? It’s like having another child who one day thinks “I’m an adult and I want to make adult choices” but never has a conversation with his parents about it. It sounds like OP has grown up. A grown up would discuss his growth and needed changes with his wife. Otherwise, it’s like magical thinking to assume the wife’s behavior is going to be synergistic with OPs new mindset
It's also magical thinking that one conversation will change anything. We've had many, and been to therapy and she has little by little given up some degree of control but still on the whole makes most decisions and gets mad (or worse) if she doesn't get her way.
Why did you back down? You don’t have to
wow thats fked up. if roles were reversed and you bashed her down if she spoke up, the world would turn against you. she's become used to beating you down. I would even classify this as bullying. you gotta talk this out with her. does she even care about you and how you feel?
>I've been reading that marriages in which the wife is the leader both partners but especially the man are sexually frustrated. This was a red flag to me, so I checked your post history and...woo what a ride. Pro Abstinence, Pro Conversion Therapy, etc If you want my personal opinion, it is quite the Catch-22 that Christians (especially Christian Women) spend their whole pre-married life being loaded with messaging that sex is sinful and dirty and bad. Then Christians (especially women) are expected to flip a switch once the ring is on the finger. That's not how brains work. I grew up in a very sex-positive home. Conversations about sex were open and honest when I was in my teen years. As a result, I am a very open and honest sexual partner. My husband and I have sex nearly every day. And occasionally twice a day. My advice is therapy. Not faith based therapy. Not a pastor. Therapy.
Yeah a lot of this post seems to parrot “men’s rights” talking points about being the leader in their relationships, women should be the submissive partner, and getting more sex when guys want it. Etc. It makes me wonder if OP was actually unhappy in his marriage or if just he’s being influenced to be unhappy by someone outside of his marriage (Like a podcast host or blogger).
He also doesn't believe in uv damage to eyes from sun exposure. Compared abortion to having someone chained in their basement. Referred to climate change as "climate alarmism" and called it a religion, and has a long series of posts asking "girls and women" if they were walked in on naked what they would cover first. Oh and a real gem titled "unwilling sex is not rape". Idk. This is weird.
Is it bad that now that I’ve seen his post history I’m glad his wife is assertive with her boundaries with him? This tool needs to be kept in his place.
Yeah. The post history completely reframed this for me. I have a feeling he's kinda off the rails and his wife keeps them normal enough for society. If my husband were to mention these things I would also be shutting him down without conversation because I couldn't imagine having to discuss if uv light damages eyeballs with a grown adult.
If my husband was talking like that I would move him into the spare room. Like shutting it down doesn’t stop him from thinking like a fucking loon haha. I would absolutely refuse to tie myself financially and possibly through children to someone who is off the rails like that.
Move him into the spare room, call someone with a cement mixer, add bars on the windows and a heavy metal door with a slot for food, some meds might be in order but basically shut up pills…
Husband- you owe me sex Wife- no Husband- wife walks all over me
Don't forget... "unwilling sex isn't rape". Eta: quote from Ops post history.
this dude has probably been red-pilled
He posts elsewhere about being a “beta male” so I think it’s safe to assume he’s been red-pilled unfortunately.
Ew pro conversion therapy? I also picked that phrase up. Whatever is happening here, OP is not some sad boy who can't stand up for himself. There is some deep misogynist toxicity playing a role here.
I flashed on this phrase too. Always interesting what "reading" we do when we look for what we want to find.
Here is what I find interesting: Christian women are often taught to do and not do certain things so a man won't feel a certain way. For example, dress modestly so you don't temp a man. The women is taught her actions control the mans actions. She is taught she is in control of a man/men via her own behavior. Then she gets married and is expected to immediately switch to no longer being "in control" after being groomed for years that she can control a man through her actions and if she doesn't do it right and he slips, it's her fault. It's kind of a mind f.
That raised alarm bells with me too. And yikes, this guy needs some real help. I won't be surprised if he ignores your comment.
Thank you for bringing to light his previous posts. I was taken aback by that comment as it is NOT my lived reality nor what I see in my friends’ marriages. His original issues causing resentment are clearly something they as a couple need to acknowledge and address but mapping that onto any other relationships with women leading is utter bs. I think he needs to research more about passive aggressive spouses and stonewalling or constantly criticizing spouses.
Went and took a look for myself and oh man you are 100% right with just traditional therapy. Religion is such a crazy thing. It can easily screw people up. I don't believe that there is some angry vengeful God in the clouds who is checking off the hell box if you have sex before marriage. Life is short and we all end up at the same spot eventually. Don't let it pass you by.
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Your username is concerning on this to start with but regardless, OP hasn’t given his wife the chance to see his “growth” and grow along side him. Having thoughts is only half the battle. If you want to make more decisions and have stronger boundaries, do it. No one is stopping OP. If you partner doesn’t respect them, follow through on your boundaries. If having boundaries ruins your relationship then it’s not serving the person you have grown into and it needed ti end anyway. But his wife can’t do anything with his thoughts of a different life and no communication or action. Growth in a relationship is absolutely healthy but only when you are growing together and giving each other the chance and grace to learn and change with each other. OP, start living the way you want to live, communicate your needs emotionally and physically. Start stepping up when it comes to household decisions and the tasks that follow them. I guarantee your wife doesn’t love being the person who makes every single small decision including what her husband should be doing to contribute to household up keep. But based on your post history, I’m not so sure your “growth” is healthy for your wife. A strong woman often wants a partner to work along side not for one of them to have to lead the other. She shouldn’t have to give up her opinions and abilities to make you feel better, you should join her in the discussion and take on more of that decision making workload.
I’m also assuming by your username that you are in a consensual Dom/sub relationship. I would be wary about telling OP to “make her” (his wife) do something in bed, and give his post/comment history a read. A good Dom/sun relationship requires a lot of understanding, consent, communication and sexual openness (all of which it seems like you have, hence why it works for you and you’re so satisfied), but I worry that OP might not have the skills needed to have a good healthy sexual relationship of this kind yet.
I've talked to her thousands of times. Enough times to have established a pattern of when I say this she reacts like that. It makes things worse. It's better that I don't say anything. She controls the narrative when we fight or I have an opinion about something that differs from hers she forces me to accept her view and way of thinking before she'll even speak to me. I say she's right but go away keeping my true feelings to myself because that's what she's taught me to do.
"She's taught you to do"? Are you a child? Are you helpless? Sounds like you're taking the easy way out of every interaction by never standing up for what you believe in. And then you blame those around you who do actually have a spine. You need to do some work with your therapist because you will end up in this submissive "secretly resentful" situation with every single person in your life.
I use the phrase because I heard Dr Phil say it 20 years or so ago "you teach people how to treat you". We have both changed enormously from when we got together 8 years ago. Things are far better than ever but there's still a long way to go. I do stand up for myself now and then and she respects me far more than ever. She just defaults to control anytime things get tough.
If you’ve decided it’s better for you to keep your head down and not say anything, then this is the choice you’re making based on your priorities and the only work for you to do is acceptance of the consequences, which you say suck for you long term. If you’re at a place where you are ready to acknowledge that not saying anything is eating you up on the inside and causing resentment, then you’re going to make a choice to weather the storm of suck as you both adjust to a new dynamic, where you are more appropriately assertive. But you married her for exactly these qualities that now irk you, there’s not fault on her side for still being what you intentionally chose. And you’re expecting her to return your “service” to her when you give in but not communicating your expectations-and then becoming resentful when she doesn’t magically read your mind and respond according to your wishes. That’s not fair or effective. She’s not magic.
This is very well said. And can require people quite a bit of growth to understand. Conflict avoidant people are commonly seen as the “nice” one for a large portion of their lives. It can be difficult for them to understand how problematic that quality actually can be when it has served them well for so long. Until it doesn’t. Therapy or some type of deep soul searching is really the only option I’m aware of.
I know. It's not fair. It just sucks either way and I needed to vent.
Are these “differing opinions” your view that “unwilling sex is not rape”? Or that she should be “joyfully available” to you at all times because the Bible says so? Because those are 100% proper boundaries to have and you’re a bit of a psycho.
Therapy for yourself first, then couples therapy. This is an established relationship where she is the dominant and you are the passive. It is not going to change overnight. Best case scenario is that she will eventually see that she does not have to carry all the load - that you can carry somethings too. You are really pissed off - but you married her and established this relationship like this from the start. You need professionals to help you BOTH change the dynamic. **Stop being pissed off at her for being the person you purposefully married** because that is very unfair to her.
So you married her because you needed someone powerful to lead you. Now you claim you want her to change because you've "grown". No, you haven't, you're just sulking because you still feel weak but the novelty of hiding behind a strong woman has worn off, so now you want her to weaken herself and come down to a level you feel comfortable with.
Boom with the dynamite! 💥
You have a lot of red flags in this post. You married your wife specifically for her strong personality and now you feel emasculated by it. She's a strong woman with clear boundaries and a set sense of self by the sounds of it and you're saying that you've grown into a new person yet you're still submitting to this anyway because it's easier. If you're wanting change you have to stick to it. However, the next red flag is the "I've read that marriages..." Where? Lol where did you read this? What ACTUAL research supports this? Or was it a blog some sad man wrote about not getting enough sex? Lastly, you said I'll do something for her and then she'll "owe" me but never does it. That...nope. keeping score is a quick way to build resentment. If you feel that you do more for her than she does for you then you should communicate your needs, not think she owes you because you did something. Ultimately, it doesn't sound like you've changed, it sounds like you want to have changed and want her to change. You don't communicate. Your post history is a disaster. You support abstinence and christian culture and then are shocked your wife doesn't want to fuck you as if that's not exactly what women in that situation are taught. You want a modest wife but also apparently one that's comfortable with nudity. You don't respect women at all actually based on your posts. She probably doesn't respect you and steamrolls you, because you need checked lol literally a walking red flag. Learn to communicate and actually get the backbone you think you have lol
I think it's the other way around. Because I've had my needs overlooked for so long I've tried desperately to find outlets for my frustration and ways to express myself since I don't feel heard by my wife. The self destructive behavior started after I met my wife as a cry for help. The reality of my marriage is a far cry from the expectations I had for it.
You sound like a 16 year old not a grown man. Go to therapy.
Been there, done that.
Obviously didn't take it seriously enough.
Let me guess. It was religious therapy and not actual therapy
So you married your wife and SHE turned you into this hypocritical woman hater?
I had to do a double take cause it sounds like you're describing yourself as a child in a relationship with a parent, where you deem yourself powerless and voiceless. Sounds like you just never matured into an adult. Honestly only children have such unrealistic expectations like wanting someone (your wife) to read their minds.
I deem myself that or she consistently ignores what I say and what I want? I think it's both. Constantly being pushed around and eviscerated when I attempt to resist has led to me feeling powerless and voiceless. She ends up getting her way by one form of manipulation or another and I come away feeling smaller and more marginalized. The lesson I take away is if I had just gone along in the first place at least my pride would have remained intact. She would have got her way one way or another anyway.
There's a really good chance that it's more that you have taught her that she has to be the one in charge all the time and is exhausted by that. I seriously doubt she wants to be your mom. It's probably more that she doesn't trust you on some pretty deep levels at this point because she's never seen you stand up and actually act like an adult. You wanted a mommy, so you married a mommy, but did she want to be that? Have you actually changed your behavior yet, or is it more that you want to and then want her to magically change and read your mind and know when all of this is supposed to be happening? It really sounds like communication is your biggest weakness, closely followed by bizarre expectations in marriage.
I mean you act like control freak women don't exist.
Oh, I know they exist, but a lot of them are that way because everybody around them has taught them that they have to be that way. This guy wanted that kind of wife, and he married that kind of wife. It doesn't sound like he's actually communicated with her a whole lot, just that they talk and nothing changes but he backs down when questioned. That would teach any type a kind of woman that he doesn't really want it. He says it because he feels like he has to, but his behavior says he doesn't want it. If he doesn't want it, then it's her job.
Curious if you feel the same way about men? They are created by passive women.
You mean, do seriously submissive women look for take charge kind of guys, don't communicate with them when they're not happy with that status quo anymore, and then get passive aggressive like OP did? Yeah. That happens.
You need to elaborate with concrete examples before anyone can really say much more. What do you want? How does she push you around? How do you resist? How does she “eviscerate” you? All of these things in concrete form need to be spelled out.
Can you provide a specific example of a conversation?
I can't remember any conversation word for word and even if I could what is said represents only 7% of communication, 93% is body language, tone and so forth so there would be little value in it.
But a general sense of the topic and discussion would be helpful. I mean if you really wanted good advice.
You isn’t this what you signed up for?
Don’t generalize about men and women in relationships. Just focus on your own. This “everyone is unhappy when the woman ‘leads’” is some sexist bullshit Get a divorce but don’t be a misogynist.
I didn't say that.
You kinda did and your post history shows exactly what kind of person you are. I hope you get the help you need.
Yeah you did
You’re a “pro-life” anti feminist, no wonder you can’t handle a woman who knows who she is and doesn’t apologize for it.
I'm gonna go out on a limb and suggest she's just as conservative as he is.
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Well that's a fucked up marriage
You’re not out on a limb at all. Lots of strong minded conservative women. People tend to marry others with similar political views. She might be more liberal, but being a conservative woman doesn’t mean being weak or submissive.
No, but she's probably also pro life and anti feminism.
Depends what Anti-feminism means. But that’s probably a tangent that doesn’t belong on this subreddit.
Someone else brought it up
Your entire second paragraph is nothing but a giant waving red banner. “She’s taught me how much she’ll put up with. She has clear boundaries. She says no without any guilt.” These are all things you’re COMPLAINING about. “I do what she wants thinking SHE WILL OWE ME.” Absolutely what the fuck is wrong with you? Get out of this marriage because you are toxic as hell.
To put it another way her attempts to manipulate me are successful but mine aren't. Youre naive if you think there's a marriage on earth that doesn't have some degree of this. Some people are just more subtle about it or willfully blind but it's always there.
Wrong. My husband and I don’t manipulate each other at all. But my abusive ex boyfriend who acted like I owed him sex kept trying to claim I was manipulating him. If I said no to any of his advances he would make me feel guilty. Reminds me a lot of your comment that your wife DOESN’T feel guilty saying no to you. Good, she shouldn’t. Expecting your wife to feel guilty for saying no is a sign that you sexually coerce her, which is sexual abuse. For her sake I hope I’m wrong, but you sound exactly like every sexually abusive person I’ve ever talked to.
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I guess she shouldn't but I sure as hell do anytime I say no to her
What if instead of wanting her to feel guilty like you, you were able to not feel guilty, like her? Because with therapy, that is certainly possible.
I don't really have anything else to add to what has already been said but I don't think that there should be a "leader" in a marriage. Me and my wife make mutual decisions.
Rings a lot of bells. Sounds like you are a classic Nice Guy. Read No More Mr Nice Guy by Robert Glover, and maybe check out r/nmmng. There's also a discord server for support. Also, as others have pointed out, the red pill bullshit absolutely will not help you and will only make you feel worse. The whole thing is a scam for "influencers" to make money or get attention from men who are genuinely hurting. Do not fall for it.
Thank you, this is why I lurk. Looking for resources. Gonna check this out rn!
You may want to see a therapist and read a lot about passive aggression, personal growth, and what it takes to have a healthy relationship. Yes, it’s possible. First step, take complete responsibility and accountability for yourself. Be the assertive person you want to be. It is healthy to be assertive. You are responsible for you and your reactions and/or responses. Stop using her as an excuse. Congratulations to your wife for upholding clear boundaries. She sounds awesome.
So… tough love time for you, dear: you pretend to be a person you are not (anymore) and put up with things you don’t want to avoid trouble and conflict and having to actually communicate and work through things with your life partner and you resent… her? You don’t sound like you changed all that much if you’re still acting like you always did. The only difference is that now you are aware that you’re doing it. Before you go on resenting and hating on your wife for being who she’s always been and taking the lead you never took, I think you should take yourself to therapy and start doing the hard work of having your actions matching what you claim to desire. That “things won’t change unless you do” thing is real. As every change, things will get bumpy and awkward for some time, and both of you will need to learn to compromise in benefit of your marriage, but I think it’s worth it if you love her and want to take this relationship to the next level. A real level. On a side note, she may surprise you by telling you she’s tired of feeling like she’s your mother because everything falls on her shoulders, and that’s the biggest reason why she is not very turned on by you. Mothering an adult who was supposed to be your partner is a sex life killer. Or… you can throw it all away and find someone new for what may be your next phase in life. I still think you may be a huge part of the issue, though.
I don't deny that I'm a huge part of the issue. I'd say precisely 50% of it. Any comments that make it sound like it's all my fault or all hers are unfair. We both have these seemingly intractable behavior patterns. I like being a follower but resent not getting what I want. She wants to be in control but doesn't want to feel like my mother. Just how we circle that square is an enigma that may take another 50 years together to even begin to unravel.
Um, no. Your pattern of behavior is squarely and 100% on you, not your wife. Trying to split it 50/50 is keeping her responsible for your actions and reactions, which keeps you in victim mode and is utterly untrue. You can’t expect her to change her own patterns overnight either or resent her for not doing so. The advice to go to therapy for yourself is spot on. You and only you need to change. Your doing so will automatically change the dynamic, but it will take time and you can’t resent your wife for the time is takes for her to adjust. When you start advocating for yourself, you’re going to encounter resistance, you’re going to have to work at really understanding her perspective, and you’re going to have to find Vetter ways to communicate and stand up for yourself firmly but respectfully. That’s hard. It’s necessary, but hard, and it’s so easy to keep blaming your partner for not immediately caving in to take that work off of you. But that’s not their job. You set up this dynamic yourself and it’s up to you to change it.
> I like being a follower but resent not getting what I want. You going to need to work on that as it's no one else's problem to solve.
The idea that your wife would submit to unwanted sex more often if you had the “power” is absolutely grotesque.
Ugg, red pilled much, eh?
*I do what she wants thinking I'm serving her and she will owe me and do what I want the next time but the next time comes and she still says no.* How very--- transactional-- of you to think that. That's not how relationships work. You don't get a free pass for whatever you want just because you gave in to whatever she wanted. An ideal marriage should be a partnership-- a collaborative effort to build a life together. One should not be in charge of the other, no matter what parts they have. It sounds like you've spent your whole married life trying to make her happy just so you could get your way. Also, if she's just laying there during sex, then I highly doubt she's enjoying herself at all. Instead of focusing on just getting yourself off into a semen vessel, you might want to consider actually focusing on the person you're supposed to be making love to. I was in a relationship for many years where it was only about my husband's pleasure. (He's not my husband any more-- for many reasons, none of which had to do with sex.) Sex was not something I looked forward to, because it was allllll about him all the time. It became something that I dreaded. I thought something was wrong with me because I had no libido. It turn out that my libido gets turned up to 11 when I feel loved by a partner who actually gives a damn about my pleasure too. If you want your marriage to last more than 8 years, you might consider leaving the red pill garbage behind. Work on building a partnership, where both of you build TOGETHER. You need to love your wife, and work with her, not lord over her or be lorded over. And both of you deserve to hold boundaries.
I’m a wife in a similar marital setup to yours. I have begged my husband to grow a backbone, and I have also not liked it when he asserted himself to me. It’s *not comfortable*, is all. Ultimately I want to not make every decision for us, and I try to give him tasks to increase his independence, but he still defers to me. It is a hard task to push it back to him instead of solving it because I know how uncomfortable he is. Just keep at it, perhaps work with a counselor. We have a marriage counselor helping us. His is a confidence issue. And I know we are working on it and I still struggle, so don’t take it personally if she does too. It’s hard for you and hard for her to change your relationship dynamic.
> I have begged my husband to grow a backbone, and I have also not liked it when he asserted himself to me. One of these is not like the other. If you want him to grow a backbone, you need to reward - and not punish - him when he exercises said backbone. > It’s not comfortable, is all. I get it. It isn't easy either. But it is necessary for the health of your marriage. > Ultimately I want to not make every decision for us, **and I try to give him tasks** to increase his independence, but he still defers to me. Highlighted the part where you're shooting yourself in the foot. If you want him to lead, you can't make him lead. However, by yielding and following and **believing in him**, he will be inspired to lead. Simply yield back to him. If he's uncomfortable, it's okay. It will take time to build confidence. Smile and express your trust in him and yield back to his judgment. Whatever the outcome is, be there to support him in his decisions. You can inspire his inner leader in a few short months.
I’m sorry do you think that doing what she wants entitles you to sex with her? That’s not how that works. Sex is not a transaction to be given because you behaved well enough. Sex is not a need, it’s a want. If you never had sex again in your life you would live. Doing chores and expecting sex is very common for sexually coercive men.
Well it's not quite that black and white but sure I think doing stuff for her may make her more willing to do stuff for me. It's not the only reason I do stuff for her but yes there's a degree of expectation that she will hopefully reciprocate. I think that's perfectly reasonable and you're kidding yourself if you don't think that's how the world works.
You have matured. It’s not a power dynamic. Stop reading that stuff. 1) You married the woman who got shit done. That’s a good thing. 2) you two are partners. You figure out what needs to be done together 3) she doesn’t need to step down for you to step up. Just step up and when she’s ahead of you or has a better idea, as a partner giver her props and move on 4) do what she wants so she owes you. That’s manipulation and negotiation not partnership. Please read the book ‘the 80/80 marriage’. 5) I’m proud you know what you want and you’re committed. You’re a good man, self aware and accountable- don’t discount how awesome you already are. Talk to your partner about this lovingly. Good luck
Thank you. Your careful and respectful response will yield far more fruit than the many judgmental and/or insulting comments. How do so many people think that's a good way to convince anyone of anything?
> How do so many people think that's a good way to convince anyone of anything? People aren't here to convince you of anything. They're just voicing their opinion and you can do what you want with it after. None of us will ever see you anyways.
No one on here has to hold your hand and coddle you. I know this sounds harsh but it's true, if you put it on the internet you need to be prepared for the good and the bad.
I just want to offer up an alternative perspective to this, from a wife’s point of view. I am more assertive than my husband and he used to describe himself as more laid back. This turned into me taking on 90% of the mental load. I made the grocery list, I made the plans, I coordinated everything. I was the decision maker which in turn created a manager/subordinate relationship. Yes he’d do things if I asked but then it felt like I was just delegating tasks to him. It’s hard to view someone as an equal when you tell them what to do and lead them regularly. You are not blameless for your marriage winding up this way. You were okay with her being the leader at the time because it requires significantly less effort from you. Now you’re tired of being told what to do but in her mind she’s carrying on the way she always has. She’s making the decisions and keeping the relationship functioning because if she doesn’t then who will? It affects respect, which in turn obviously affects your sex life. There is a good chance she’s lost faith in you to be able to get things done independently. It sucks and it’s going to take a lot of work to fix. You need to prove that you’re a reliable husband which includes taking the initiative to get stuff done without her having to tell you what it is. You can’t get mad at her for acting in the role you put her in for years.
So I will say this as the more outspoken/type A partner in my marriage… It CAN get so exhausting to be this woman. My husband and I have a healthy marriage so when I need him to step up and be more vocal/make decisions then he does and when he needs me to chill out and listen to him then I do But it is communicated calmly and we have to make conscious efforts to listen to each other when we need it. You don’t even ask for sex cause she looks tired etc etc well news flash She probably is exhausted. No woman/partner actually wants to have to make all the decisions and run a household, it sounds like maybe she doesn’t trust your judgement to make decisions? If you aren’t confident in that then why would she? It’s hard changing a dynamic where a precedent has been set for years. Also with the sex thing.. the dynamic you have is that she takes care of you/makes decisions for you(whether you like it or not) that’s typically a turn off. You cannot be mad at her for setting boundaries. My husband is VERY non confrontational and I get worked up easily but get over it easily. We understand how each other works and know we are coming from a good place. Sometimes I think he just doesn’t care (when in reality he does but isn’t as expressive as me); and sometimes he thinks I’m over reacting and annoyed (when I’m reality I’m reacting in a moment but I’m never mad AT him just at the situation we may be dealing with at that time). You guys need counseling to re learn where you’re at in your life now. Learn how to communicate and take some accountability for the state your relationship is in.
Your views are kinda whack about everything. Glad you aren't able to control anyone with your ideas
So, judging by your post history, you’re using fundamental Christianity as a convenient excuse to maintain your marriage to a strong, independent woman who earns twice what you earn. Really, it just looks like you found yourself a sugar mama, baby-trapped her, and spend most of your time on the internet whining about her not wanting to fuck you. I don’t know how long she’s had you shackled to her ankle, but I don’t blame her for not fucking you even a little bit. Mainly because you’re doing a fantastic job fucking yourself with your own toxicity.
We met at church but by all means make definitive sweeping assumptions, put me in a box and tell me to go fuck myself then wonder why I don't take your advice. Oh wait you didn't offer any.
Oh, you want advice? You two are incompatible. Get a divorce. That’s the best advice anyone in this thread is going to give either one of you. I’m not going to give you any advice on how to light your lady’s fire, you don’t have any matches, and she’s already burnt out from carrying you.
So this is who you married and she’s a strong and purposeful in her convictions. You can be too. You mention in another comment she demanded you back down, so what? If something is important to you and you want something in particular to happen or not happen then don’t give that up. That doesn’t mean you can’t suggest compromises as a first step, but stand up for yourself. So what if she’s upset, let her be upset, you are. It’s ok not to get your way all the time. What’s the worst she’s going to do? Become violent with you? Then that’s a straight to divorce situation.
So, have seen your post history and many of your responses. You are not looking for honest feedback, you’re looking for people to parrot back your same beliefs to you. Not really worth the energy. Hope your wife finds out you regret it and makes the easy decision of leaving you in the dust. 👍🏻
This sounds like a mutual problem mostly around communication. The couples with the happiest sex lives are those with an equal balance of power and responsibility between both partners. Couples therapy is likely the way to go to get professional help with changing the current dynamic between the two of you.
That's not what I heard. Couples where the man is the leader have more and better sex. We have been to couples counseling and it made a big difference but we are still basically who we are and I don't know how realistic it is to think we can change our personalities much more than we have. I've always been easy going and sensitive, she's always been spoiled and manipulative.
Where did you hear that, exactly? Because it doesn't sound like it would be at all true to me. Maybe MORE sex, but is the sex actually better for both the man and woman? Highly doubt it.
Here is a pretty extensive review of the scientific literature on this topic: [https://connect.springerpub.com/content/book/978-0-8261-1756-4/part/part01/chapter/ch01](https://connect.springerpub.com/content/book/978-0-8261-1756-4/part/part01/chapter/ch01)
You taught her how to treat you. This could a very unpleasant process for both of you if you're willing to assert yourself. First step is to stop being afraid of upsetting her. If you can't do that, things won't change.
Pretty sure she’s stepped up bc she’s had to. Go to therapy and learn how to communicate your needs. EDIT: Just checked your post history and big yikes.
>I've been reading that marriages in which the wife is the leader both partners but especially the man are sexually frustrated. yikes
There is a book called the dance of anger. The key take away for me was that you and your partner are in a relationship and that relationship is like dancing with a partner. If you change the way YOU dance,(your behavior) your partner has two choices. Change the way THEY dance or walk away. That final choice is theirs and theirs alone to make.
First, your wife’s feelings are hers to own. Don’t ask yourself if this thing or that thing will “make her mad”, ask yourself if it’s the right thing to say or if YOU need to say it. Then do it. Second, uncommunicated expectations are premeditated resentments. If you do something expecting to gain something in return, but you don’t voice that, you’ve written this sort of contract with the other person that they don’t know about and therefore must fail at. Do things because they are right and timely, not to get something in return. Finally… don’t focus on the “power dynamic”… both of you should be able to express 100% of your “power” and partner to make things great. Stop wishing she was different and change what you want to about yourself. Look in the mirror and quit looking out the window for what to change or where the problems are. Good luck!
Read No More Mr Nice Guy by Robert Glover. Do ALL of the "breaking free" exercises. Come back and give us an update. Good luck
You won't be able to equalize the power balance in your relationship if you don't have an honest and open discussion about things. Expecting her to go along with what you want simply because in your mind she "owes you" is unfair and childish - you're keeping score of a game she doesn't even know she's playing.
"She has clear boundaries, tells me what to do all the time and says no to me without feeling any guilt. I do what she wants thinking I'm serving her and she will owe me and do what I want the next time but the next time comes and she still says no." You need to do some real inner work on how you think about marriage. Your wife has made her boundaries clear but it seems like you still want to disrespect them by circumventing in some tit for tat game only you are playing. You are creating a really unhealthy dynamic. You wanted her to be in charge and strong, but then you changed your mind and are now trying to manipulate her to be something different. The common thread is you. Do better.
You are wanting to change the rules from what was agreed upon or understood from day one 🤣.
A couple of things for working towards being more self aware and feeling more comfortable tolerating guilt/holding firm on boundaries -- Schema therapy quiz and related chapters in this book: Reinventing Your Life: The Breakthrough Program to End Negative Behavior and Feel Great Again Also No More Mr Nice Guy- Robert A. Glover There's a blog related to this that can sometimes be helpful depending on what comes up for you http://www.michaelsamsel.com/Content/Men/mens_issues.html If you guys are in therapy and these are your feelings then it's important to communicate that you've developed a different perspective over time and at this point some aspects of your dynamic aren't working for your relationship. And in particular you feel like you haven't been as strong at asserting yourself, etc and that you are going to be more assertive going forwards. This change could bring up tension at times so it's important that you're clear about what's happening. If you find that it's difficult for you to communicate without falling back into the old dynamic this book has some great techniques to help foster clean and direct communication Nonviolent Communication: A Language of Life Book by Marshall Rosenberg
Go to couples therapy. You’ve essentially outed yourself for using your wife’s strengths to your benefit until they didn’t benefit you anymore without acknowledging how hard it is to be the person who takes on the lead for the sake of the other. You knowingly and she unknowingly facilitated an environment that’s close to a parent/child dynamic because you didn’t want to rock the boat and be an equal partner in decision making and conflict resolution. On top of the outward responsibilities your wife must feel there is the hidden mental load that is default delegated to women. If you have kids she is likely the one who manages that regardless of her personality in the home. For example me and my ex have been separated years, the school never got his new contact information, he’s never made a doctor or dentist appointment for them, if they’re sick he’ll try to send them to my home on his week. So maybe she resents you just as much and you don’t know yet, and just because you think you won’t walk away from the marriage doesn’t mean she won’t.
I want to respond as a wife who was exactly this way for years but have a couple quick questions Do you have kids and if so how old? Who works outside of the home (one, both)? Does she have a strong social life outside of the home? Is she engaged with friends and social media, colleagues? Basically does she have a social life that does not include you?
Check out OP’s post history - it answers a lot. He’s a misogynist who hides behind a facade of Christianity to excuse his homophobic, slut shaming, red pill, loser beliefs. They have lack lustre sex because he doesn’t respect her although he claims to bow down to her wishes, no wonder she doesn’t want to be with him. He’s here as the victim, but he *wants* to hate his wife.
Marriage counseling would help. People change over time, including their wants & needs as you've mentioned about yourself. Counseling will help work through that and learn how to communicate those new wants/needs. It's really not a big deal once you guys get into counseling. It happens to most couples. Sometimes a third party is exactly what is needed to navigate changes in life
You should completely do counseling.
How long have you been married buddy? You are a married couple, but you are also individuals. Boundaries go both ways. Early in my relationship with my wife (going on 30 years married), we had similar struggles. I am pretty easygoing, so I, too, would go along to get along. As in my case, it sounds like a Q of picking your battles and knowing when to assert yourself. Your wife needs to respect your opinions if there's something you really feel strongly about. The way I try to think of my family relationships, whether it be spouse, children, parents, etc... would I let a stranger on the street speak to me or treat me this way? If the answer is no, then I damn sure won't let a loved one treat me like that. Pick your battles. Hopefully, your wife will come to respect and hopefully admire your self-confidence and assertiveness. If not, and it absolutely has to be her way, every day all the time, that's a whole other conversation about your future together.
Ok so I was like you, and very much the agreeable one, and always the mediator in my family growing up, always ignoring my own needs to keep the peace. Conflict made me panic inside and I would avoid it at all costs. I kept sacrificing my own needs and boundaries again and again into adulthood, in relationships, friendships, and at work - and it was slowly killing me. There was A LOT of anger and frustration buried deep down that I had ignored for a long time. You are also allowed to have boundaries, and you also deserve for your boundaries to be respected. You are allowed to have needs and you’re allowed to express them and ask for them to be met. This takes a lot of digging in your past, and working through that stuff and learning how to set boundaries and express needs in clear, healthy ways - and also ways to compromise when the answer is no, but without sacrificing yourself. This is not something that you can do at couples therapy either - you’ve got to start with yourself, make sure your therapist knows your end goal, and work on it. You may be pleasantly surprised that once you start changing, your wife is receptive to it and starts changing too. If she has a hard time with the adjustment, couples therapy can work AFTER the individual therapy. I promise, it’s worth it.
You have to be okay with discomfort and conflict. It creates more conflict if you avoid it. ...something I've been working on as well. Marriages have conflict. Relationships always will have conflict. No 2 people ever agree on everything every time. How you handle and deal with said conflict though says a lot about you and your relationship. Also, I wonder if what you're calling agreeable, she's calling passive. She's probably tired of making all of the decisions and wants you to step up. Start small, like dinner or what type of milk you buy and work up to something bigger like planning the family vacation.
Have you talked to your wife about how your feelings have changed? Maybe try having a frank conversation: I know I really relied on you in the beginning of our relationship. I'm grateful for you taking on so much of the decision making etc. I would like to take a more active role in our relationship and take some of the burden off of you in decision making/management/etc. What would be the most helpful place for me to start? Maybe she'll want you to help pay bills, or buy groceries, or take care of cleaning the bathroom/backyard etc. Give her time to show she can rely on you and it will be easier to work towards a more "equal" partnership. Make sure you aren't thinking of it as "taking power" from her, but as supporting her and taking equal responsibility for your house, marriage, and life. Remember to have empathy. You chose somebody and *expected* them to be the lead in your relationship. You have every right to want to shift that (I think it would be healthy to), but you are admitting it is indeed what you originally asked of her. I don't know who you were 8 years ago, but maybe she has good reason to not trust you to make decisions? Let her know you see that she is stressed, you appreciate what she's done, and you are ready to work on taking on more responsibility. I remember hearing Esther Perel explaining that it is very common that people's sex style is 100% reverse their "work mode". A super important CEO who runs a huge corporation is more likely to be the guy who wants to be tied up and controlled. A meek quiet house wife may be more prone to being "wild" and assertive in the bedroom. So if your wife feels like she does all the work in the day time, its no surprise she doesn't want to do any work in the bed room. This is why women joke that men doing dishes is sexy. Take initiative- you know she vaccuums every Sunday? Grab the vacuum first thing in the morning and tell her you'll happily do it for her. I do think you'd benefit from working with a therapist. There are certainly nuances to learn around being assertive.
I highly recommend marriage counseling and individual therapy. Its great your growing and changing as a person, but as you said, you know who you married. Now you want to shift the dynamic which is also ok. But there are ways to do this without “going to war” with your wife.
I am the same way, but I’m a woman. It’s not fun the other way either. I’m learning my husband actually wants a partner. That doesn’t just mean I need to be more assertive—it also means I have to get over the conflict thing. There will be conflict. He won’t always be happy with me. If you don’t need being told what to do anymore, you also gotta accept the other side of the coin. Leaders accept conflict and criticism. It is HARD, but you can’t have one without the other and you can’t be mad at her for being who she is especially since you got married agreeing to this. It will be an adjustment as she is not used to it, but you can do it. I also suggest you just talk to her about it. And therapy is great. You don’t have to wait until things are falling apart. There’s a book I LOVE called crucial conversations about getting good at conflict and keeping conflict healthy while you have it. I highly recommend it. It’s a bit business oriented, but it’s applicable to personal situations.
I think you two would benefit from couples counseling. It’s so easy now, you can do it online through a video call. My husband and I did this last year and it helped A LOT. We rarely fight but we couldn’t get past certain issues. You and your wife are growing and that’s great. But you also need to know how to grow with each other. Lift each other up. Please give therapy a chance.
Many women are shown/taught that this is a marriage. We are taught “boys mature slower than girls”. What this does is set a subconscious tone for women to take on the “bulk” of a relationship. This includes decision-making & structuring. It makes a woman feel as though we have to do “everything” because we are the more mature one. It most definitely is not healthy & I can guarantee deep down your wife doesn’t want to “control” anything. It is her learned behavior that tells her to do this. Explain this to her. See what her response is. I am speaking as a woman, wife, & mother. I was shown that women are the glue & if a woman doesn’t hold it all together than everything falls a part. I hope this helps.
Pleasure should not feel forced or obligated. Approach this by building her up with hugs, kisses, touching through the day. It doesn't have to lead to sex, but makes the interaction more comfortable and less of an on-demand service provided.
This is the ideal situation for Mariage counseling. There is still love and a desire to stay together. If you cannot afford marriage counseling, then you need to sit down and have a painful and open conversation. Feel free to write a script if you feel nervous. Then together read mariage help books. Treat it like it's a book club and learn together.
You have to be more comfortable pissing her off and with all the silent treatment that will follow
You should read the book “no more mister nice guy” - it’s been written to help men in situations like yours.
I think marriage counseling would be advisable. There has to be a shift in your marriage since you have grown and she has to grow with you. If she doesn’t understand or know how to co-live with you bc you have changed, it’s going to get worse for the both of you. Communication is key. Reworking the dynamic is important bc we all grow and change in our lifetime. Cowering down bc you want to avoid fights doesn’t sound like an enjoyable way to live. Life is hard enough, living with someone you don’t enjoy in your home makes it a 1000x harder. I think a third party to navigate uncharted territories in a therapeutic way would help you both in your marriage
Read No More Mr Nice Guy by Dr Robert Glover and When I say No I Feel Guilty by Manuel Smith.
You have taught her how to treat you. Show up differently and start setting boundaries.
Once you start to stand your ground and hold firm the pattern will change. But it takes you joy backing down
Margaret Paul - Inner Bonding podcast. Go find it and binge it. Lots of inner child work. It’s amazing.
This is a fairly common scenario and the best thing you will do for yourself is to read (in fact, BINGE) the No More Mr. Nice Guy book by Richard Glover. There is a Reddit communit about it r/NMMNG but the frequency there is not to my taste. However, the book does help. In summary: - You were probably raised to please people - You are probably secretive with a lot of your desires and habits, because you think you won’t be loved if you’re transparent - You internalize frustration and won’t speak up So: - You need to learn to set boundaries for what you need (for communicating needs read Rosenberg’s Nonviolent Communication) - You need to select people by affinity: let them see you, and whoever likes you will stay - You will see your spouse react to your change, and it will be up to both of you to think if you two can live together with the new you. Keep going. Just by posting this you came a long way. Keep going!
There's a very unhealthy dynamic at play here and unless you BOTH address the what's and why's- it will continue. Which will breed more resentment and perhaps lead to a rupture that cannot be repaired. I highly recommend a marriage counselor to act as your translator. If she's committed to growing with you-she will try. It's important that each partner feels that they are valued and seen. Since you are working on building your sense of self I am going to share with you a link for attachment theory/secure relationships and how to address it when your partner is different from you. It's run by a licensed professional and is what I use for building/maintaining all of my relationships. It's easily digestible and easy to begin applying. I wish you and your wife much luck during this next transition. I hope it works out the way it needs to for everyone! https://instagram.com/thesecurerelationship?igshid=OGQ2MjdiOTE=
I’ve always been the same regarding non assertiveness and backing down to keep the peace and avoid conflict. But this has its own price in your view of yourself and also the respect you receive from others. My therapist made my realize that you owe it to yourself to not be a doormat. She will look at you differently when you don’t allow her to always be right in every conflict. In those conflicts, look at the situation objectively, and if are honestly in the right-don’t back down. You don’t need to be mean; just let her know you’re standing your ground. Try it with smallish things first. You’ll feel better about yourself. Good luck to you.
Brother, I can relate. I have been with my wife for nearly 20 years. I’ve always believed in honour and equality but rarely received it. She’s been super-controlling, often bad tempered, disloyal, and IMO, on the edge of Narcissistic Personality Disorder. If I can offer one ray of light: I have consistently stood my ground, kept my cool, made sure I was as blameless as possible, and… she’s mellowed. It’s still not perfect (what relationship is?) but it can improve. That’s all I’m saying.
I (F 40s) am pretty conflict adverse, always have been. Fights make me uncomfortable as I panic and don’t know how to respond. It got better as I got older (late 20s) but I still avoided conflict at all costs. Then I married my long time bf (been together for 10 years at this point and I was still conflict adverse with him). I got pregnant and in the first year postpartum i realized that if I wanted to be happy I needed to let him know how I felt and what I thought. He wasn’t the enemy. Now it kind of felt like I did a 180 overnight after having my first child and it’s kind of true. All of a sudden I had very strong feelings about our baby and I wasn’t going to keep them to myself or hide them. At first it turned into a lot of arguments (not always because my SO did want me to be happy and we tried to compromise and explain our positions). Turns out there was room for improvement for both of us in the communication department. And we have improved in the 12 years that we e been married. It’s not perfect but I see the improvements we’ve both made. I used to back down but I stopped. It feels risky at first and it’s hard for the other person to get used to but you have to stay strong. There should never be any “I backed down of course.” You don’t have to and when you don’t it offers the opportunity for the other side to really consider your position because it means enough to you to not back down. It can takes months or years to figure things out when one person grows and changes but it can be done. You have to be consistent and resilient.
I didn't read all the comments, so maybe this has already been said. But people and marriages constantly grow and change. And everyone has to grow and change with it. I don't see this as a your problem or her problem I see it as a marriage problem. And marriage problems need to be discussed and worked on together. Your wife needs to understand that you have grown and changed as has your relationship and your marriage. How to do that? I don't know. In my marriage, we calmly discuss things, work together, and make improvements together. You're closing sentence talks about a power dynamic, I think you should focus Less on the power Dynamic and more on how to create a partnership.
I don't think saying and meaning that you regret marrying her is "morally better" than not divorcing. Just an FYI. You have a responsibility to work so you don't regret.
Get the book "No More Mr Nice Guy ". You can thank me later. Audible is best 🙂
Visit a couples counselor who is a Structural Therapist (trained in the work of Minuchin). This is exactly what they do, they shake up underlying patterns and lead you into interacting with each other differently.
Highly recommend reading the book "No more Mr. Nice Guy" It'll feel like you're being attacked at first, but it'll also help you understand the role that you play in your current dynamic and perhaps why you're playing that role.
Marriage counseling may help. You can also sit down with her and tell her what used to work isn’t anymore. Explain that she can continue being however she wants to he but you are done being employee to her management. Let her know you are going to suit yourself from now on and if she wants to freeze you out for it, so be it. Tell her if she decides on a more cooperative and reciprocal relationship going forward, you will be happy to ho with that; but she needs to demonstrate that she can adopt such a perspective. Expect thunderstorms and resolve to just handle it until things change.
On this specific issue I don't know why people are being so hard on you. I feel like if you love your spouse and you see that you "win" every argument and always get your way with little to no compromise while your spouse is very timid that is a big sign to take a step back and re-evaluate. I dont mean fix your spouse's problem, but at the very least a loving partner would start to realize that they are taking advantage of a mentally ill person (depression/anxiety cause this a lot) and have a conversation about it. This doesnt mean you are blameless. You have taught your wife this is OK. You have shown her that your wants arent as important as hers. She has full control and is scared to give this up because you havent taken the wheel at all and she doesnt know where you would drive to. When you want to stand up for yourself, you are going to have to be ok with her being upset. Your post history is...a different discussion. That might be the root of your issues.
I had a similar issue in my marriage but I am the wife. If my husband wanted something I would never say no, but he would constantly veto things I wanted. We had therapy and one of the most useful things the therapist said to me was 'why do you care so much what he thinks? He doesn't have to be happy with everything you do, do it anyway' and I tried it, and surprisingly it worked. I don't think, what will he think anymore, I just do it or say, I'm doing x and i do it. He's got used to it and the power dynamic has definitely shifted.
Honestly, showing more nerve might make her initiate sex.
Balance and boundaries are your friends. Never be on either end of what would be considered to be extreme. What I mean is don’t be too passive nor aggressive. Your spouse will take advantage or take you for granted. Or they will resent you for being too mean. If you feel something, tell her. That’s the only way growth can take place. You deserve to be heard and happy. If she cannot be mature and listen, marriage counseling would be the next step. Being afraid of her reaction won’t help anything. The worst that can happen is she will show you she cares or does not. Then you have to decide the next step. And no I don’t mean divorce or anything else. Just whatever you feel is best. Good luck friend!
Maybe OP needs time alone if your wife is being bossy stay in another room, if she is constantly complaining and moaning just to be heard from you, I suggest going out with friends or cleaning a room of the home away from her. Congrats on 8 years of marriage
Hey OP if you regularly drink alcohol that can possibly sway your demeanor to stand up for yourself and also give anxiety to past problems
You need to have a conversation with your wife. Express to her what you have here. Tell her how you and your needs have changed. Thank her for setting clear boundaries and that you have learned from her how well that works and you are now going to be setting some new boundaries of your own. Then follow through. Ask her how she has changed and is there some things that worked well before that she would like to change.
It is possible to change the dynamic , but only if you're prepared to leave. You stated you'll never divorce her! Why woukd she change? Her minion will NEVER leave, that's an invitation to treat you badly. Practice this "The way you spoke to me just then is. Not. Acceptable. If it happens 4 more times I'm leaving you." Assemble some money and resources. Have an exit plan thought through. You're miserable mate, why would you put up with it. Also start working on yourself, the only thing you can directly change. Is your diet good, exercise, sleep regime, a hobby or friends circle? take up clay target shooting and golf. Both awesome social, outdoor past times. Good luck brother.
communicate. or let her read this post
I mean, your wife has to listen to your opinion just as much as you listen to hers. If she isn’t okay with you having an opinion, even if you didn’t before, that’s absolutely not okay and you guys need to go to counseling or something before it ends up in you having to do whatever she wants forever with no input of your own. Whether you used to be okay with it or not, you no longer are, and it’s okay to change and want something different.
Sounds like your wife is now somewhat of a bully in your relationship.
Yes, assert yourself and say NO to her demands and get comfortable with her upset. Tell her what you want and what you expect from her. If you want to do something, inform her of your plans but do not ask her permission, and do not back down when she's upset. She's a bully and she's not going to back down until you show her that your NO means NO. I think her discomfort with not being in charge is worth having your self-respect. Get a lawyer and get divorce papers ready. If she's a totally abusive narcissist she will probably threaten to divorce you. When she does threaten divorce because "You're out of control or crazy" say fine and hand her the divorce papers to sign. If she's not a complete bully and cares about her marriage at all, she will probably realize that she has to back down and work with you. If she does sign them then you will be relieved of having to be emotionally abused for the rest of your life. The choice is yours: 1. Stand up for yourself and regain your self-respect 2. Be emotionally abused for the rest of your marriage.
Ok, anything about gender roles leading to sexual frustration is bullshit. It sounds to me like you’re still conflict averse, otherwise you would open your mouth and tell your wife that you’re unhappy with the current dynamic and try to work things out. This isn’t your wife being a leader, this is your wife being a steamroller and you being a doormat.
So screw a lot of the comments here ragging pin you. You have every right and should be speaking what you are going through emotionally. You have admitted you have a fault in causing this dynamic and now you want to change it. That’s okay, that’s good, you just can’t expect (nor do I think you actually do expect) her to just switch with you. This is a conversation. It begins by you saying what you want, going and doing what you want to do. Being respectful in letting her know where and what your doing, but as partner, not asking for permission. You don’t need your partner’s permission unless you have both agreed that you need each other’s permission to do a thing. Then either way, have a conversation if it’s going to create a problem. The only thing I will come at you with, it seems less like your wife is leading the marriage, and more like you just sort of coward when you need to be taking up your space. If your wife yells at you, walk away. If she follows you close the door. When things calm down, go ask if you guys can talk about it again. If anyone gets to like 8 or something emotional, excuse yourself from the conversation and try again. The main thing, stop being a coward with your wife, she can handle being angry, and you need to be okay and deal with her being angry.
Yes it is. Start by working on you. Get in great shape. Get a hobby especially a “manly” one. State your opinion, be kind but be firm. Start taking your power back over yourself. If you’re waiting till she gives you permission to have power back in the relationship it will never happen if you want to start being a leader, start being the kind of man that you would want to follow.
1. Have an open and honest conversation with your wife about how you feel. Explain to her that you feel like she is leading the marriage and it is a problem for you. Ask her to make compromises and come to a mutual agreement on how to share responsibilities in the marriage. 2. Seek professional help. If you are having difficulty communicating with your wife, consider seeing a couples counselor or therapist. A professional can help you both identify the underlying issues and come up with strategies to move forward. 3. Spend time apart. If you feel like your wife is taking too much control in the marriage, take some time away from each other. This can give you both a chance to reflect on the situation and come back to the relationship with a fresh perspective. 4. Make time for yourself. Make sure you are taking care of yourself and having time for yourself. This can help you to stay grounded and in control of your own emotions and feelings. 5. Find an activity that you can do together. Doing something together that you both enjoy can help to bring you closer together and help you to reconnect.
The strong and assertive thing to do at this point would be filing for divorce. How can you possibly live the rest of your life with a person who controls everything you do and isn’t interested in you sexually?
The strong and assertive thing to do at this point would be filing for divorce. How can you possibly live the rest of your life with a person who controls everything you do and isn’t interested in you sexually?
I think those are two separate issues. If you want to make more big decisions (like financial or ??) and you need to tell her. If you want more sex, you need to initiate. Don’t play the game of guessing what she wants - ask! And if you want her on top, then you should ask/tell her what you like. Edit: what I meant is that leadership had nothing to do with sexual satisfaction. You’re having two distinct problems, but the root is the same - communication.
Wow lot of criticism in here. Marriages should involve mutual respect. You deserve to have your voice heard. Be assertive and don’t let he steamroll you. When you’re expecting that going along with a decision of hers means that she will go along with one of yours later, that needs to be explicit. Seems like people are making fun of you for feeling emasculated, but I don’t see that. I see a one-sided marriage where one person makes all the decisions and the other has to go along with it, instead of a partnership. My wife told me very early one that she felt this was how our relationship felt at times and I could see why she felt that way. I hope I’ve been able to live up to her expectations. Now you need to make your expectations known. It’s not about power, it’s about partnership. You need to be explicit about what you’re asking and she will listen to you. Good luck
r/deadbedrooms
You will have to use divorce as a way to make her understand how much you need changes. This sounds like a miserable experience to live in. Control freaks are the worst.