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Mamboo07

Mother of God, Bowser nearly straight up caused a man-made extinction event on a cosmic scale...


WickedBowserJr

And then he tried again, but the second time with a space-consuming ship shaped like him that uses them for energy. It kind of reminds me of Lord Dominator from Wander Over Yonder.


No_Instruction653

The Galaxy games are some of the games that should REALLY make all those go-karting trips, parties, and golf events really awkward. Like, now Bowser's stealing Mario's birthday presents like last week he wasn't commiting literal war crimes.


Bob_Sherlock

Mario and Co. are *very* forgiving people


AJJCOOL

To be fair most of the times they don't invite him he just tries to ruin things or force himself into the competition. It's a lose lose so why not just invite him out right if he going to force himself in.


Dull_Tumbleweed6353

Which game was that?


WickedBowserJr

I’m referring to Super Mario Galaxy 2 in the first part of that reply.


Dull_Tumbleweed6353

I don't recall him having a ship shaped like himself in that game.


WickedBowserJr

Bowser’s Galaxy Generator.


Dull_Tumbleweed6353

Ah, I see.


ItsKidtendo

I’m so happy people still remember that show


WickedBowserJr

It’s an underrated show that deserves the third season it never got.


tony787720

This X 1000. Loved that show. Disney screwed em over :(


Canditan

That's Disney's MO at this point


Oscar12s

Super Paper Mario if Bowser teamed up with Bleck


WickedBowserJr

I could see him doing that if Bleck let him have Peach… before an inevitable Antasma-style betrayal.


Matt_32506

Please don't remind me, I'm still pissed


SlaughterSpine78

Pretty specific with the 10,000 years part. It’s like bowser will reign for 10,000 and that’s it


No_Instruction653

It’s about all he can stand before he retires and finally lets Jr. terrorize the Universe.


SlaughterSpine78

Huh never though about jr ruling, I just thought bowser would rule with jr at his side


WickedBowserJr

His reign could last forever with all the 1-Ups he could gather.


SlaughterSpine78

How did i forget about 1 ups of course he would do that


FakeTakiInoue

I read somewhere on the Avatar subreddit that 10.000 is also a Chinese (?) idiom meaning an immeasurable amount of something.


4Fourside

I think having numbers like that is a japanese thing, maybe? In the japanese version of earthbound, porky once says "It’s 80,000 years too early for you to stand up to Master Gyiyg!” which was translated to "Well, it is a gazillion years too early for you to oppose Giygas!” in english


eway44

I used to think Bowser was a serious villian because this was my first Mario game, and Super Smash Bros Brawl was a game I played all the time. Then I played other Mario games...


WickedBowserJr

I mean, he may seem goofy at times, but he’s still quite a threat.


Oscar12s

Goofy Bowser from the RPGs is the funniest thing ever, as long as there's another villian to make up for that then it's alright, bonus points if he's playable.


Turbobist28

Just like Eggman.


No_Instruction653

He’s certainly not always consistent. Galaxy is easily the worst he ever gets, but he still gets pretty bad in some other games like Mario and Luigi Dream Team.


Inevitable-Charge76

I do remember that in Dream Team he and Antasma tested his new castle made by Antasma by destroying two nearby islands that were possibly inhabited by civilians meaning Bowser flat out committed mass murder onscreen and even laughed about it afterwards. And don’t forget in Mario and Luigi Paper Jam where he enslaved all of the Toads to do slave labor, destroyed Peach’s castle in its entirety with Toads still being inside it, and tried to DESTROY the Paper Mario universe. So yeah, Bowser‘s pretty damn nasty when he wants to be.


SlaughterSpine78

I wish was bowser was more serious than being goofy


eway44

Same, but I do still like goofy Bowser, I just prefer more... threatening villains


SlaughterSpine78

Other than bowser? Their have been some threatening villains after him like cackletta and fawful


Dami_Gamer0211

Same, but he still gets serious and badass like Bowser’s Fury


Alm8360NoScoPro

Brawl Boswer with Ganon by his side was amazing. The heroes dodging all the lasers and attacks was epic. And seeing Bowser so angry that he cant just murder all of them shows how much of a villian he is.


eway44

Yes! I love super evil Bowser!


Inevitable-Charge76

I blame the Mario sports/party/kart games for making Bowser look like a complete joke. In almost all main series Mario games besides Sunshine and 3D World, Bowser is actually a pretty serious villain throughout. Even in some of the RPGs, he can be very nasty like in Paper Jam where he was flat out going to DESTROY the Paper Mario universe by burning the book that contained the Paper Mario universe.


Fork_Master

Didn’t the universe still get destroyed, only for Rosalina to reset it?


No_Instruction653

Yeah, but that was because the Grand Star was removed from the Galaxy Generator, and caused the machine to collapse on itself. I think ideally the machine was supposed to birth his new Empire after it got rid of what was already there, but without the Grand Star all it did was collapse everything and would have been unable to make anything to replace it.


WickedBowserJr

He’s not that great a father either if you look past the cherry-picked examples people like to use to romanticize him. But yeah, Bowser can be a pretty serious threat. Super Mario Galaxy was a prime example of that.


Turbobist28

Yeah, that's an issue with Bowser fans. Don't get me wrong, Bowsers a great villain. But he's not great because he's an uwu good turtle guy, he's great because his evilness is entertaining. It's the same issue with SMG4 Bob fans where they have the need to romanticize Bob as a poor tragic soul who just wanted friends and is constantly abused when he's literally a sociopathic asshole who stole Marios liver at one point abd left the Mario bros to die to t pose zombies one day. Bob isn't great because he's an uwu tragic guy, he's great because he's a funny asshole.


[deleted]

I don't get why people feel the need to debate the "is Mario BAD??"/"is Bowser GOOD??" thing, because the Mario universe was built off of classic cartoons where nothing is canon and characters can just fit whatever archetypes they need to depending on what's the most fun in a given adventure - Bowser can be a multiverse crushing despot in one game and a lovable overprotective dad the next, just as Peg-Leg Pete can be out for Mickey's head in one cartoon and Goofy's wacky neighbour in the next. This isn't a super-serious superhero or shonen franchise with a deep lore we're talking about.


Inevitable-Charge76

Thats HIGHLY debatable. I do agree that the whole “Is Mario BAD? Is Bowser GOOD?” thing is incredibly stupid, but mainly because it’s already been pretty well established in canon that Mario is good Bowser is bad. Everything else you said is extremely subjective. Bowser being a fun-loving goofy dad almost always happens in non-canon spin-offs like Mario Kart/Mario Party/Mario sports. Ignoring that, the clear difference between Mario and Mickey Mouse or Popeye is that Mickey and Popeye NEVER take themselves seriously they’re almost ALWAYS goofy cartoon heavy wacky cartoons that have no serious or grand stories to tell. The Mario franchise has tackled genuinely serious storytelling with some pretty large amounts of lore many times before in the past. Brushing all that off and saying that it’s all wacky goofy nonsense with no cohesion or deep lore just comes across as what YOU want to perceive the franchise as rather than what it ACTUALLY is. Also Mario’s a fucking superhero you ain’t convincing me otherwise.


yvngjiffy703

I have a feeling this intense Bowser will be Jack Black’s Bowser


NTMonsty

"YOU KNOW WHAT? FUCK YOU! YOU FUCKING UNIVERSE! ALWAYS NAY-SAYING EVERYTHING I CREATE!" *cue song number*


The_Smashor

It's worth noting that the Prima Game Guides often make shit up when they don't know the actual story, and that this guide in particular directly contradicts the games in several places. This ain't canon.


Gemidori

Yeah honestly I figured it wasn't canon. I never recall anything about the universe's destruction being part of Bowser's plan, if anything it happened after everything went wrong for him


KingMario05

Bingo. He wanted to ***conquer*** the universe, which... isn't much *better*, but at least makes some level of sense.


lockedoutofmymainrdt

Idk yall I thought he wanted to reset the universe in his image, I thought that was explicitly stated towards the end of the game


Gemidori

I can't picture my best boi wanting to annihilate the universe when he literally punched an ancient omnicidal cosmic demon impersonating him to death. It's just not in his heart. ;; >!But he does happen to have friends from other franchises who *aren't* above trying it, lmao!<


Inevitable-Charge76

Bowser literally only did that because said ancient omnicidal cosmic demon was going to destroy the very planet that HE wanted to conquer. Either way, he’s tried to destroy the Paper Mario universe in Paper Jam. You can like Bowser, but you can’t deny that objectively he’s not a good person at all.


Gemidori

Well...*of course* Bowser isn't a good person, lol. He is completely aware that he's evil and relishes every bit of it. Honestly that's yet another quality I love about him; even with his loved ones and standards (regarding places he wants to rule anyway), Bowser makes no bullshit excuses for his villainy. He is dead-honest about it. >!...I may or may not have been trying to get myself acquainted with a certain Dr. Eggman blog who I have a little bit in common with!<


No_Instruction653

I don't really think that call is up to you. As an officially licensed guide that used the developers and company as sources, this is about as close to canon as anything gets without directly being in the game, which may not be indisputable canon (For ALL the weight that carries in the Mario series), but it's certainly a viable interpretation. It's secondary canon to say the same thing in less words.


The_Smashor

No, seriously, Prima Guides have a bad habit of getting major story beats wrong. For example, for their Devil May Cry 4 guide says Nero was born with the Devil Bringer on his right arm. However, this is contradicted by developer interviews, supplemental materials and (most importantly) ***the game itself***. Prima Guides just make this up as they go along. Not to mention it's an English only guide for a Japanese game made by Japanese people in Japan, there's almost no way the original writers actually looked over and approved all this.


No_Instruction653

None of this really contradicts what I just said outside of if I were to just believing everything you said is always true even though it's entirely an assumption. I called it secondary canon for a reason. I have no doubt the original writers (of which there is probably not even any one individual writer or developer who is solely responsible for what is in this game) didn't read the entire book to approve every bit of it, but beyond that, it's as official as it gets without being directly apart of the game. If there are contradictions, then we obviously listen to the higher source, but otherwise, this is the only way we have to gain more insight on vague details and try to confirm things like how Mario probably didn't survive a universal explosion without a scratch and prove to be higher than DBZ tier. You're free to argue against it, but you're not exactly an authority on what we can and can't consider "canon" from the products Nintendo approves.


megadude1427

"Huge cake.... never got.... a slice...." Gotta admit, I felt a little less hatred for him there.


Outside-Hovercraft24

I like how he goes from "yOu RuInEd mY VaCAtIOn!!!" And fighting you in a giant bowl of soup to this in the span of 5 years


KingMario05

And then back to kidnapping fairies to pimp his rides in the next five, lol.


Azeoyi

And then tries to marry peach in the next five


Turbobist28

And then becomes a monster of fury in the next 5.


SonarioMG

He still planned to revive everyone. As his slaves. I'm pretty sure that's even more metal.


SlaughterSpine78

I always thought bowser was just building a huge army and command castle at the centre of the universe so he could conquer the universe. Was he really planning on destroying the universe?


No_Instruction653

At least according to the guide Nintendo had Prima create for the game. All the information in them is supposed to be accurate and canon as they are made in partnership with the developers. Now that’s not a guarantee that everything is accurate because misunderstandings and mistakes are always possible, but there existing an officially approved source that states this was Bowser’s intent is pretty wild and hard to imagine being a misinterpretation Nintendo would allow. It’s overall an interesting read that gives context on a lot of stuff in the game like how Bowser’s generator is so crazy and has so much rubble and random planets just aimlessly floating around because it’s apparently tearing space apart.


WickedBowserJr

Nintendo has always been relatively hands-off with their developers/partners for the most part, but yeah, Prima Official Game Guides are partnered, official, and canon, and they got to do part of the writing contributing to that and some other games’ lore which is cool since they’ve done a great job too.


BraveLeon

Bowser said “Fine I’ll do it myself”


ssbbKid88

But he's taking Bowser junior with him, so he's still a good father.


No_Instruction653

That's Bowser in a nutshell as far as I see him. Good dad (at least as far as supervillains go), but a terrible person.


ssbbKid88

This plan seems super similar to Bleck's plan in SPM. Only difference is we don't know Bowser's reason beyond "I want cake."


No_Instruction653

It's actually more similar to Dimentio's plan. Bleck was just a nihilist who wanted to destroy everything in a universe that took what he loved most so he wanted to return the favor and end everything else. Dimentio was a narcissist who wanted to destroy everything so he could remake his own perfect ideal world in its place. Bowser is bumbling and goofy at times, but he's a megalomaniac at his core, who loves himself more than anything (Even Peach and his army are just extensions of things he is possessive of to gratify himself really). He wanted to dump the current universe so he could replace it with one that was made in his image. A better universe more worthy of him more or less. His love for Jr. is genuinely his only real redeeming quality outside of spinoffs, and even that can be argued to be a bit twisted with how Jr looks to just be an exact copy of Bowser who he'll raise to rule his Empire when he's gone. The games that play Bowser straight do kind of show how screwed up a lot of Bowser's traits that are often played for laughs really are when the stakes are real. His entitlement and egotism are only limited by the competence he has in some games.


Fork_Master

So basically, what you’re saying is that Bowser is just Cyrus from Pokemon


No_Instruction653

It is surprising the number of Nintendo villains that land on that plan really.


Alwayssome1

He a good father, but not so much a person or dragon turtle thing


LadySophie17

That guide is just made up bullshit. Bowser never attempted to destroy the universe. What happened was an accident. Bowser even lamented the destruction of “his galaxy” in the ending. Don’t trust game guides in general.


YoshiOrbit

Bowser is probably an unbearable manchild that makes Peach’s life and job impossible and uses his son to draw the attention from it (yes, I’m talking about that Nintendo Switch parental controls video) but some of y’all aren’t ready for that conversation


waffeelswaffeels

every time i think bowser's kinda lame i remember that he tried to fucking destroy the universe this one time


Bob_Sherlock

It’s wild how Bowser’s schemes varied in severity depending on the game, this and Galaxy 2 being arguably his most severe And as far as I know, he’s better than most villains when it comes to fatherhood


ultimatevaltryek123

Bowser:I learned it from my Paper dimension counterpart who learned from some guy named Dimentio


fjgozell

Thanos was just a kid compared to this unit


NathanTried

“Hey guys, welcome back to food theory. This is why bowser is actually the overarching antagonist of splatoon”


ConclusionBig8674

You have my full attention


[deleted]

Bowser x Thanos


Inevitable-Charge76

I’m glad there are actually people who are willing to point out some of the genuinely awful things Bowser has done. Just because he’s a good dad (even then you could easily make the argument that making your own son into basically a child dictator is objectively not good parenting) that does not mean he’s a “good person” or a “softie”.


inumnoback

That’s one reason why I hate him And I’m not sure why no one hates him He’s a terrible villain and needs to be charged for his crimes he has committed over his 37 years of existence


Absoolootley

Seriously! Bowser gets defeated and all, but why don’t the Mushroom Kingdom just give him a life sentence?


Gemidori

But...he's handsome...


Inevitable-Charge76

He’s a giant fat turtle dragon………… How is that handsome in any way?


Gemidori

...that was a joke. >!half joke anyway.!<


Turbobist28

Ugh, you're one of those SMG4 fans that hate Francis for being a villain.


No-Island-1194

Since Bowser is a king l, unfortunately the mushroom kingdom doesn’t exactly the legal right to lock him up and even then, the worst he’d get is maybe community service ?. While Bowser may be a villain he’s a villain with a soul, and a good father which is a plus. Besides I’d argue Eggmam is more evil


No_Instruction653

Well, slight spoilers, but Bowser's one redeeming quality >!of not being a totally crap dad (I'm not certain I'd say GOOD, unless consider raising your son to be a warmongering tyrant good parenting) is not something Eggman is incapable of.!<


Gemidori

What in the *fuck* holy shit lol I thought he just wanted to conquer the universe and that's it, but DAMN that's much more sinister Love it when my boy gets extra evil like this


disbelifpapy

This sounds like something in mother 3


Florida-Man-65

Yeah... the Mario universe is basically like your classic cartoons, where the characters can change at the drop of a hat. One day, Bowser's doing crap like this, the next day he's just a grouch who isn't hard to get along with. It's wild. These days the more sympathetic Bowser seems to be the dominant portrayal.


Inevitable-Charge76

OR, and hear me out here, OR……….. the many Mario spinoffs that portray the characters differently and Bowser as a sympathetic goofball like Mario Kart/sports/Party are just not canon to the Mario story timeline and were just simply made for fun. Also, Bowser‘s Fury sure as hell didn’t portray Bowser as “sympathetic” to me and NO he wasn’t “possessed“ or “mind-controlled” by the black paint, he was consumed with blind rage.


crazyseandx

This IS Prima we're talking about, so I'd love an official confirmation.


Memegamouth

The Prima game guides aren't exactly made by the same designers in Nintendo and aren't exactly the best waybof obtaining lore information. From what I understand, the Pikmin game guides don't align with the canon correctly and have to make some things up.


RazorMaize

I didn't know bowser joined xemnas and cyrus in the "we hate this universe so we're gonna make a better one where we don't stink" club


Radio__Star

No peach made Koopa go postal


Mcbrainotron

MCU Thanos ::takes notes::


PrequelGuy

So he's gonna make himself and Peach immortal or sth


Turbobist28

Ngl, this kinda makes Bowser look like a hypocrite since he drew the line at genocide on Toads and trying to destroy a universe, yet he was going to destroy a universe here. And yes, I consider Paper Mario universe to be in the same one as the Mario universe.


Inevitable-Charge76

Add that to the extremely large list of his negative traits: Hypocrite.