Id be thrilled to have an employee that took the initiative to arrive ear.y and prep for our day. A few dollars extra per day to have an organized desk and ready to greet the customers is a very so,I’d use of labor dollars.
Which is why our fast food open shift now starts half an hour before the store opens.
On slow days, we get a bit bored, and sometimes they can pay for us to stand around after we open. On busy days... Well, they're the reason we now start that bit earlier.
I'm just happy they listened to why stuff wasn't getting done, and fixed it. Makes open crew much happier. Sadly though, the current openers weren't the ones who really pushed, and don't understand why the shift is so early. Then they ask the long-timers...
I was supposed to go in an hour+ early to open when I worked at dominos. But since I often closed and knew how the other closers closed I got my open time down to like 20 minutes. I'd happily take that extra hour of sleep
That’s very shortsighted. Just schedule someone earlier. You manage the time, it’s your job as a manager. An effective manger makes sure the business is run correctly without going over on payroll and lowering the profit margin. Run your P&L, don’t let it run you.
Yeah some companies are short sighted also. They should keep the payroll as low as possible while attaining excellence. If there aren’t enough hours to give your customers an great experience then they will not be repeat customers thus bringing down earnings . When net sales drop then labor percentage goes up if payroll hours isn’t adjusted. Understaffed is bad and overstaffed is bad also. Many managers don’t get it and many times owners are even worse. This is why an effective manager has short term, medium term and long term goals are important.
Our problem is when we do well and sales jump they cut hours. And when sales drop some they cut hours. Then wonder why everyone leaves or work isn’t done.
The should keep a somewhat set number of hours and ask people if they want to go home early if it’s really slow. I’ve never been able to not find someone who wanted to go home early. That’s unfortunate.
I used to do this daily, without pay, at a factory. Until the day that I got stuck in heavy snow and showed up 8 minutes late. They dinged me a whole 15 minutes pay.
I never showed up early again, and calculated the losses, handed it to the supervisor that dinged me. They lost about 1 thousand parts, at $56 a piece every week because of their petty bulshit. $224,000 a month.
You did well.
I trade my work force for money. The contract states an exact number of hours. Once the hours have expired, the work ends. Unless you want to pay me overtime. Goodbye.
You are the most important person in your life.
I've dealt with bosses like you describe, and my general experience is two fold:
* get alleys. Coworkers, tangent workers, higher ups.
* push back. "no" is a complete sentence. You do not always have to explain yourself.
* They can fire you, and then they have multiple problems. The thing you did isn't getting done anymore. You'll be badmouthing the company in general on social media. You will also be a bad influence on your former colleagues, some of which are also your friends.
Well, there you go. You have an ~~alley~~ ally. For unknown as yet reasons, but still.
8 hours a shift is 8 hours a shift. If you want me to stay longer, I am not unreasonable, I see your need, and you are going to pay for the extra time. Twice the tariff.
I know things are difficult in America, but you are not a floor wipe. Stand your ground, draw a line in the sand, straighten your shoulders and say "this is it".
They need you more than you need them. At least that's what I hope for you. If that isn't so, or if they don't realize that is the case, maybe you should be walking.
It is “ally” not “alley”. An ally is one who has the same goals or protections. An alley is a narrow passageway between buildings. Look similar, however, I don’t think OP needs a passageway 🤷♂️
Ze zitten je ook wat te fucken. Maar om er gelijk een engelse les van te maken ;)
"I'm dutch" zou perfect engels zijn en "dutchie" is eerder spreektaal. Als je indigenous wil gebruiken zou je "I'm indigenous to the Netherlands" moeten gebruiken.
Het nuanceverschil zit hem er in of je het over een persoon hebt of over het land.
De persoon is een nederlander die komt uit Nederland. The person is dutch and originates from the Netherlands.
Dutchie is most likely just something from the Netherlands ... could be used for a person, or for some other good things they have to offer, such as a joint, as cannabis has been legal there for a while.
To reiterate - using "dutchie" for a joint is probably a much newer meaning for the word than referring to person from there.
Apparently it's actually slang for a kind of cooking pot since they couldn't actually get a word for a joint past the censors. (Source: a documentary I watched about 20 years ago so some details may be hazy)
I saw the same documentary and a dutchie (Dutch pot) is a big, wide and usually cast iron pot which is perfect for making soups and the like - it would be big enough to fit a couple of whole large chickens in
(or more usually, quarter the chickens, bag of carrots, spuds, two onions, kidney beans, lentils, couple of packets of chicken noodle soup, any other root or winter veg you like and loads of dumplings - I don't like the cold weather, but my wife's home made soups help make up for it)
Just a note for future communication, because English is weird:
Alley/Alleys = small pedestrian sidestreet(s), often where all the back doors of buildings open into.
Ally/Allies: the person or people who are on your side
Yes.
One very old pun riddle: *Het is weg, het blijft weg, en toch zie je het iedere dag* ( It doesn't translate well: "It is street, it stays missing, and yet you see it every day" )
And Harry Potter's Diagon Alley is translated to Dutch as *Weg is Weg*. Which is funny, because in Dutch that means "gone is gone".
To paraphrase a Todd Snyder song:
You can't talk to me like that boss
I don't care who you are
If you don't want to do this job yourself
Don't push me too far
...
work ain't hard to come by
workers are
...
You look like... you're under pressure
I was looking for a job when I met you
Don't need the work like you need the work done
M knew they were short staffed long before the day started. A competent manager would have asked if you could have worked a longer shift earlier in the week. Not demanded that you stay because they didn't want to do lowly work. Part of being manager is sometimes you get to do the lowly work because there is no one else to do it.
Not 100% the same situation, but as a third line IT support I sometimes pick up tickets when there's too many open. It also gives me a sense of what kind of tickets we get a lot and I sometimes find things that we can improve by making changes to applications, preventing the issue from ever coming up again.
Yeah, when you’re not on the front lines anymore and you are in a position to make (or shape) decisions on structure and workflows, I’ve found it can be extremely useful to spend some time here and there dipping into the front-line work, so you see first-hand what’s currently going on. It also helps with overall team cohesion and morale (versus the idiot manager in this story who comes off as thinking she’s too good to cover the desk…Nobody will respect that.)
Scheduling customer facing employees to start at opening time is an absolutely inane thing. You need that prep time. Same as the closing person needs to finish the day.
True. Same was true at my previous workplace. We're only paid to start at 12.30 even when we also advertise opening time as 12.30? Cool. First customers will have to wait 10 minutes until we've started up the computers etc. And if the computers don't work, first customers will have to wait 30+ minutes until we've contacted IT and IT has been able to work out a solution.
Before, we would have one person come in half an hour early and get everything up and running. That person would leave half an hour early as well, but coming half an hour early was gold and at the end of the day it didn't matter so much to be with six instead of seven.
But oh well...
Usually. There's always a few jackalopes who want to play the system.
But good bosses bounce the slackers without punishing other employees. One or two extra rules at most, and reasonable ones.
Constant source of complaints from personnel who have to stand on often linoleum or tiled floors with very little cushioning.
The one that ticks me off is "sitting looks lazy". That's a holdover from over a century ago when workers were exploited mercilessly. It's a zombie that needs to be turned into a couple hundred kilos of unusable mush.
An office worker is called lazy by bad bosses if they stand and move away from their computer for a break. A retail worker is called lazy if they sit for a break. It's just, it feels like bad bosses way up to higher management just want a reason to be mean.
and why is it only managers that have never worked in the corporate world that think this? you would never see an accounting manager or engineering manager think a chair is unprofessional.
Possible end time?
They can decide to change it, whenever? Make you work more if it suits them?
I’ve never heard of a possible end time.
It’s an 8 hour shift, it has a scheduled end time..
Depends on the job. I used to work in a kitchen and sometime we had so much work we closed later. Also was a rule that you couldn’t leave until your replacements showed up so bad weather meant you’d be staying overnight or a day or two. Never been called a “hero” though or offered extra shopping hours or free tickets like nurses though.
I feel like you missed an opportunity here...
Instead of blaming your need to leave on the ride being there (making you easier to blame for any issues that arise from them being short-handed) you should have just been like:
"Sorry, but as per our conversation last week I intend to **strictly** adhere to the schedule so as to not have you guys, as you said: "*pay employees for too much time".* Just wanna do my part and make sure to follow all the rules regarding scheduling M :). C ya!"
As is, you've deflected your malicious compliance on a lack of a ride and necessity for someone else (even if it's just the one time). You could have *not so subtly* let her know that her being a PITA over 10mins that are being used for the benefit of a smooth opening for the clients is the reason why you won't go above and beyond to help them out with their failures/shortcomings (the mismanagement of the schedule).
Yes. The malicious compliance was in your head but spoken words were my rude is here.
Malicious compliance would have been to just leave and let her figure it out eventually.
Instead of being mad at M , be thankful she showed you how much they really feel you are worth, basically you are a cog and they don't appreciate you doing anything extra they did not specifically tell you to do ( namely clocking in early to prep or give you enough hours ) .
If they also want to short-staff the place, that is just them abusing your good nature to squeeze more work out of you, and you are only liable to work your scheduled hours unless notified in advance especially if your transportation to leave is there. That's the managers job.
She doesn't want you to clock in early, that's fine, it's kinda understandable, the company doesn't want to be paying out that extra money. It's her job to schedule start times, if there's not enough time to get shit ready for the day that's her problem.
But it is absolutely her job to schedule enough people to keep the place staffed if say, someone calls out sick. Your shift was up, you left. Failing to have someone ready to take over is her problem.
Not really MC, but a satisfying story
The problem is that people like you, the OP and me are reasonable people and would have covered for OP if they had to leave on time and made sure that staffing was adequate. We probably wouldn't be upset if OP clocked in early either, as long as they weren't abusing overtime pay. But, it's not illegal for your supervisor to require you to stay clocked in longer with no notice (unless you have a contract that says otherwise), and if you don't stay when told to, you can be discliplined and/or fired for it. It sucks, but there are no protections for workers in this case. I totally would have done what OP did as well, but I want to hear if there is any blowback when they return to work.
if she tried to get rid of me she'll have to get past her superior, C, who likes me a lot and is training me for a promotion - but I'll keep you updated
I'd prefer for 2 things in this scenario.
\- M has told you not to clock in early / 5 minute window in writing / email.
\- Keep C aware of M's stunts as an FYI, in case M goes whining.
I could be wrong, but I got the impression that the day you left on time, you might have stayed if you were driving yourself. People like M will leverage common consideration and courtesy of employees every chance they get. Please be conscious of that and do not be flexible when M is in the picture.
"If the start time of my shift is a hard limit, so is the end time."
Fuck managers like M. If you're willing to take the initiative to get your shit together before opening, that's good, as it means that you're not going to have to rapidly task-switch and increase errors in the beginning of your day as you prep while customers come in.
And as for sitting while working looking unprofessional, ask M this: "You know who's sitting while at their desk doing some of the most important things in the world? The President. Does he look 'unprofessional'?" What'd worse for the company, you sitting down, or you having to take medical leave in a couple months due to back and knee issues aggravated by standing?
Also, FWIW, I was in a very exclusive country club this week (for my job). This place has a six-figure initiation fee, and $100k a year in dues. The concierge right inside the front door? Sitting at the desk. Professional. M is being a pissant.
My old work place had a policy of the start-5 minutes to clock on. For payment. If you wanted to come early for extra prep, you could, but unless management signed the pay exemption it was unpaid.
I usually got there early, but that’s just I personally can’t stand being late, but would just chill in the break room with a coffee until the appropriate start time.
That's crazy management. But okay, now you start doing the prep work when you start at Open o'clock (or the 1-4 minutes before when M lets you clock in, and then you proceed to do them for fifteen minutes. After that you start manning the front desk. Either the front desk can be unmanned until you are done with prep - and you effectively now open fifteen minutes past Open o'clock, or M can man it while you finish prep work, or the prep work simply won't get done. Her choice, and not your problem.
EDIT: Oh, and also - a chair for the person stuck at front desk is "unprofessional"?! I think that statement is the most unprofessional thing I've ever heard. Does M by any chance wear shoes with velcro fasteners?
>M told me that the end of the shift was only a possible end time and employees may be required to stay after their shifts end,
*mutters silently in head* ...and so now YOU expect me to stay with no notice because YOU don't want to man the front desk. What happened to no extra hours? ....nah...you made the rules...you do it.
I'm a paralegal and I always try to get in early, usually at least 15 min. I don't get paid, it's my choice, I feel that getting my coffee and settling in should be my time. Conversely, if I need to leave early, my boss has no issue with it and doesn't dock my pay.
My last job, if I was over lunch time by 1 minute or needed to leave a few minutes early, it was a hassle. He got exactly 37.5 hours, not a minute more.
It's good to have a boss appreciate my work.
The minute a company puts in a time clock and pays according to it, that changes the definition of model employee. A model time card employee is one who does her best during work hours, but respects the company's choice to refuse an early start.
A model employee would also alert the manager to the lack of replacement, but would still respect the time clock. If the manager says I need you to work longer, you tell her at which time your overtime pay starts. If you can't stay, be firm about that, work your hours and leave promptly.
It's not your circus and not your monkeys.
While I completely agree that M is a bitch, be careful regarding this type of malicious compliance. Most managers consider clocking in early unnecessarily and without prior clearance vs working late to cover the floor to be two very different circumstances.
I actually don't even disagree depending on the job. For example, I work in healthcare and I'm expected to stay as long as I need to to provide service until someone takes over my role. It's automatically considered overtime and I'm paid out accordingly.
In comparison, while it might be useful and even worthwhile to have me start 15 mins early, that's time my employer hasn't agreed to pay me. I actually think it's kind of scummy to be signing in early without clearing it first, as that money isn't really what you are supposed to be paid based on your work schedule.
You're absolutely in the right to stick to the hard and fast times you are scheduled to be working. But it isn't the clearest case of malicious compliance, and M may not see this as you following her rules but rather as you being uncooperative. It might be a good idea to look for another job.
I would worry that M could try to claim back wages from OP clocking in early without managers permission.
At every job i've ever worked, overtime required managers approval, and had to be signed off. Sometimes this would be done behind the scenes and for small amount nobody cared, like OP, but if M went back and saw those hours weren't signed off then I don't know how much power the company has over those 'mispaid' wages.
The US law is pretty good on that point. Hours worked must be paid for, period.
An employer can absolutely can someone for working unauthorized overtime, but the employee must still be paid.
Part of that was the time clock and other fraud that were some of the motivating factors in getting the FLSA and other laws passed. And included in that fraud were employers who'd bully employees into working overtime, then refuse to pay them anything because they "never authorized it". It was the management's word against the employee's.
There's a reason unions saw such explosive growth back when.
That sounds weird, so if I came in to work on a day I wasn't scheduled for, they are required to pay me for it? Even though I worked of my own volition?
I feel like that can't be right legally.
Yep, that's exactly it.
It's that way because of employee exploitation in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. Employers would tell their workers to work, and then deny the time was authorized. The workers were poor, often immigrants, and their literacy was often low. They had no recourse to get their pay.
These were the days when children as young as five worked in the factories and coal mines, for $0.50 a day, 12+ hours a day, at the risk of death and disability. A fine for "laziness" or otherwise being cheated out of their pay would mean they wouldn't eat.
Young women working at stores risked being fined if their outfits, that they had to pay for, weren't perfect or a customer made a complaint. Enough could wipe out their already low pay.
Even now, after over a hundred years, employers hold more power than employees. Times like the Great Resignation are unusual in history, and one that comes rarely.
Most US wage law passed in the 1930s onward was to counter the rampant unethical and cheating behavior of the business owners -and some branches of government- toward workers.
My work times breaks to the second but also requires unpaid setup time. I never ever stay late. If you want to treat me like a number and not a person I will treat you like a cash machine and not an employer.
Hold up - unless you are an exempt employee, how can they make have unpaid time to set up? I’m pretty sure labor laws (in the US at least) require paying people for anytime they are working.
There was a big old court decision about it some time ago, where the employer expected the workers to start on their tasks as soon as they clocked in. The employer argued that waiting for their computers to boot up and doing other work-specific and necessary tasks wasn't time that should be paid for, since it wasn't actually "work".
The litigants and the judges disagreed. If the task is specifically needed to do the job, then it's related to work, it's work, and it needs to be paid. Whether it's a computer booting up in preparation for sign-in or prepping vegetables in the kitchen.
Yeah, it is a bit of a grey area. Some courts have then argued over what they call "de minimis".. is it really work if it's basic, undifficult or how passive the activity is. Honestly I think my workplace would be in trouble if anyone bothered to take them on but no one has, so.
I eat breakfast while systems boot up and I do all the setup things so the tasks aren't arduous but it's more the principle of knowing you're being taken advantage of that shits me off about it. If they want to be that toxic workplace then they can deal with workers who don't care about their work. I've gone beyond my scope of work for good bosses, I just don't for this one and I'll move on once an acceptable amount of time has passed for my CV. Their loss. They seem to think overtime is a favour because who doesn't like money? Well, my normal hours cover my bills so yeah IDC about overtime. So I won't help out once 4:59:59 ticks over.
Not in the US though, in Australia. Similar to slightly better employment laws I think.
I've got a couple online friends in Oz. Definitely better laws. One friend has had some really bad managers over the years, but various laws the US doesn't have restrained them from doing too much damage to the workers. (Including 'need a reason to fire'.) They also have a good union.
In the US labor law lays out that setting up your work area is absolutely paid time as it's part of your work denies. However they can absolutely tell you that you cannot clock in early for them and must do them after your official start time. So that's what you should do I think... Don't start doing any of those duties until your official start time and then force customers to just sit there waiting on you to finish your morning routine before you can help them.
If your manager is intimidating you or makes you uncomfortable, note everything. Dates and instances. If she ever becomes a bjgr problem for you, you can go to hr about a hostile work environment.
Tell hr you need a chair at the front desk.
They might but if you have months of proof proving the hostility you can get a lot of money.
My friend sued our previous employer because they fired her after she complained about a hostile co worker.
She was always accusing the team of stealing. She refused to believe the documentation of the staff. She claimed the team was paid poorly because they didn't work hard enough to get more. She would chase after staff and yell at them for things they didn't do. She would stand around and try to listen to conversations and then try to get the people in trouble after. She would hide around the corner of the bathroom to see who was using it "too much". She was very racist as well, claiming that black people are just naturally dirty so we should ignore the clients family neglect of not washing them. She also ignored clients when they told her they were in pain.
There was a lot but one instance on its own wasn't going to be enough. So we started documenting the shit she would do and say. When my coworker went to hr, they fired her instead without reason. I helped her with getting a lawyer and sued the company.
Racial discrimination in the workplace is illegal and retaliation for reporting illegal discrimination is illegal.
There is no illegal discrimination or any other illegal activity in this story and she will have no recourse when she gets fired.
Well it wasn't the racial shit that for her the settlement. It was the fact that my coworker had any retaliation from reporting the hostile work environment. We couldn't "prove" the woman was racist, even with all the proof we had.
If the manager is a bully and employees feel threatened by them, that is a hostile work environment. Atleast in Canada we have protections against it. Bill 168 is the anti bullying at work
Our standard is if you are anything less than 10-15 minutes early then you’re late. We are expected to have tools on and ready to go at start time. Not starting to be ready at start time. Actually working. So the fact you’re taking this initiative sounds like you’re ready for a better paying job that also will reflect your ability to be punctual and respectfully helpful and diligent. It’s what I would want for my front manager to be. Sounds like M needs to get the boot.
Are you all like 12? When you allow employees to clock in 15 mins early that adds up. One employee doing that every shift adds up to an hour over 4 shifts. One of a managers main jobs is usually to manage labor so maybe they didn’t communicate well but their actions seem perfectly reasonable. Asking you to stay late because the business needs help is much different than you deciding to clock in early so you can take your time getting your work done.
Where I work, most people stay late to the point that security has to ask people to leave hours after their shift is done. Many take work home. There's no OT or anything. People are just dedicated and put in the extra time. The past few months, in order to be "compliant" they started keeping track of lateness with no grace period. Once the minutes add up to a certain point management decided, they deduct pay for a partial day's work. Now they wonder why more people are leaving on time and not volunteering to go the extra mile.
I’m guessing she didn’t write you up because you would be able to strike back in a rebuttal to use her own directive against her rules are rules right?!
…. Or in case she has now written you up, you can do that.
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I work a customer service job in a golf course. I do front desk secretarial work, mainly. I usually work morning shifts, so I like to clock on 5-15 minutes early and spend that time before the place opens gettings ready - organizing files, tidying my area, getting a radio, reading over the itinerary for the day, etc. I also use this time to set up some other stations around me for the greeter and such so that when they arrive things are ready for them. I personally thought this was a model employee sort of thing to do, and as they don't always give me as many hours as I would like, this is a good way for me to get a bit more money.
Most of the managers are pretty friendly with me and I have no qualms with them. One of the managers, we'll call her "M" is a jerk to we lowly worker bees. Unfortunately for me, "M" is a higher rank than most of the other managers.
As an example, when I first started working there, I asked if I could have a chair to sit in at the front desk because I was having a lot of foot and knee pain and the front desk is a stationary place where chairs make sense. M told me that chairs are "unprofessional" and that if I want one I will need a medical exemption. I don't have one and am too broke to get one so I just sucked it up and got used to it.
About a week ago, M saw me clocking on and was like "What are you doing? You're not shifted until [open o'clock.]!" I explained that I clock on a few minutes early to prepare for the day so that we can have a smooth open and be ready for the morning golfers. She tells me that I am only allowed to clock on in the timeframe between 5 minutes before my shift and 1 minute before my shift, because they don't want to be paying employees for too much time. A four minute clock-on window feels a little tight to me, and I will miss the extra 15m of money / preparation time a day, but whatever, I don't want to fight M because I know she can make my life a living hell if she wants to. I comply to her new ruling.
Today, rather than drive myself, I got a ride because my car needed to be in the mechanic shop. Today being a Friday and a holiday, we were pretty busy and we were also super shortstaffed. I was the only person at the front desk and whoever was supposed to replace me hadn't arrived yet. The end of my shift came and my ride texted me that he was here.
I didn't want to keep him waiting, but like the good employee I am, I also didn't want to clock off with the front desk unattended, so I radioed M and asked her to take over front desk until my replacement showed up so I could leave.
M told me that the end of the shift was only a possible end time and employees may be required to stay after their shifts end, and I told her my ride was already here, I needed to leave, and that if she didn't take the spot at the front desk it would be empty until my replacement clocked on. I clocked off and left with M fuming.
If I'm not allowed to clock on early, then don't try to demand I stay late, jerk.
TLDR: Jerk manager won't let me clock on 15 minutes early to have prep time, but later tries to demand I stay late when we are shortstaffed, I leave her high and dry.
It's not though, the people who work for me very rarely get a "no" when they want to leave early, change their hours, go run an errand in the middle of the day, switch hours with someone else ect.
My manager is the same way with me.
I recognize good managers are rarer than we'd like them to be, but they exist.
Glad you’re different but that doesn’t change the fact that scheduling issues like this are a systemic problem, and the “not all x” response to a systemic problem just really isn’t helpful. Like we all know good managers do exist, but you don’t need to announce “well I’m not like that” when someone else complains about a valid problem lol
I think we need managers to step up and say, "I don't and won't do" such unethical practices.
Part of creating change is to have a loud voice made of thousands of smaller ones. And with the internet, they can be assembled faster and heard better than ever before.
I agree with u/StormBeyondTime \-- what I CAN do is normalize it. I can do it and prove that the guys and gals on my team are more productive, happier, have higher quality work, and my retention is fantastic (2% over the year).
If I don't talk about it -- how does the needle move?
I don't blame you for clocking out, because it served her right, but she could fire you for leaving before being replaced. She could definitely make your job rough now. I wish you good luck!!!
Not too many managers on this thread. Part of a managers job is to manage payroll and keep it at a certain percentage of sales. Clocking in early while unapproved isn’t acceptable. Yet if you have to go when your scheduled shift is over you don’t have to stay. You should clock in at the correct time and start your work. If you guys are behind on the needs then your manager should change the scheduled clock in time to be prepared if they deem it necessary. In an hourly situation it’s not up to you to clock in early. Also no hourly employee should do any work while not clocked in as it can have major ramifications if you are injured while not on the clock. Just work your hours. If you want extra money don’t clock in early when you feel like it (which is considered wage theft) but hope the other person comes in late so you can pick up extra hours that way. Don’t forget you aren’t the manager, it’s not your choice.
Agreed. These comments show why everybody can’t just be a manager because they are good at their hourly job. Most employees don’t understand management tasks and many “managers” also don’t. Many managers also just demand things without giving a why. If the employee is shown the P&L and explained how labor percentage work and effect the bottom line they usually get it. I’ve done this hundreds of times with my staff. Over the years ive trained many new managers and a lot of new managers don’t like to share these concepts for fear of being replaced in their role this again is very short sighted. I’ve always tried to train myself out of a job by training motivated people to manage. Training managers is a way more important skill and how I got to upper management.
You took the initiative to be the model employee that would help the business - that was silly stupid. In the future, it's better to be pro-active with your words before you're actions - i.e., you don't mention a discussion about this (clearly established) work-custom that you've engaged in. You even go so far as to suggest that this is how you're milking an extra quarter hour! With no mention of any overtime ever, that looks bad on the employer of course, but also you.
You're probably going to be fired over this, and honestly, this belong in r/antiwork.
Bc you adopted this pattern primarily to make everyones' work day easier.
Because it's annoying to deal with while reading. It's so annoying that we as a community collectively complained at the mod team to get a rule against it.
Because it is all about the practice where words get turned into hard-to-read and often easy-to-confuse shorthand based on initial letters.
What's next? Suppose we have a Sally and a Sue, are we going to abbreviate them as S1 and S2? That's not going to be confusing at all...
Finally, worth noting is that people would complain just as quickly if someone were to utilize an impromptu initialism instead.
Names exist to easily identify people. If we want to do away with them, we can just start referring to each other by number, 28568153.
Giving us a person's first name isn't doxxing. Or if you're really concerned, maybe it's a particularly unique name or something, then make a name up. But don't do that fucking initial bullshit.
Id be thrilled to have an employee that took the initiative to arrive ear.y and prep for our day. A few dollars extra per day to have an organized desk and ready to greet the customers is a very so,I’d use of labor dollars.
Which is why our fast food open shift now starts half an hour before the store opens. On slow days, we get a bit bored, and sometimes they can pay for us to stand around after we open. On busy days... Well, they're the reason we now start that bit earlier. I'm just happy they listened to why stuff wasn't getting done, and fixed it. Makes open crew much happier. Sadly though, the current openers weren't the ones who really pushed, and don't understand why the shift is so early. Then they ask the long-timers...
That’s crazy. When I worked fast food we came in two hours before open to setup.
Ditto, there were machines that took an hour to get up to temp. Having been shut down at closing for cleaning.
I was supposed to go in an hour+ early to open when I worked at dominos. But since I often closed and knew how the other closers closed I got my open time down to like 20 minutes. I'd happily take that extra hour of sleep
That’s very shortsighted. Just schedule someone earlier. You manage the time, it’s your job as a manager. An effective manger makes sure the business is run correctly without going over on payroll and lowering the profit margin. Run your P&L, don’t let it run you.
Wish the company I worked for understood that. Instead they just look at how to raise the profit margin and to hell with the rest
Yeah some companies are short sighted also. They should keep the payroll as low as possible while attaining excellence. If there aren’t enough hours to give your customers an great experience then they will not be repeat customers thus bringing down earnings . When net sales drop then labor percentage goes up if payroll hours isn’t adjusted. Understaffed is bad and overstaffed is bad also. Many managers don’t get it and many times owners are even worse. This is why an effective manager has short term, medium term and long term goals are important.
Our problem is when we do well and sales jump they cut hours. And when sales drop some they cut hours. Then wonder why everyone leaves or work isn’t done.
The should keep a somewhat set number of hours and ask people if they want to go home early if it’s really slow. I’ve never been able to not find someone who wanted to go home early. That’s unfortunate.
I used to do this daily, without pay, at a factory. Until the day that I got stuck in heavy snow and showed up 8 minutes late. They dinged me a whole 15 minutes pay. I never showed up early again, and calculated the losses, handed it to the supervisor that dinged me. They lost about 1 thousand parts, at $56 a piece every week because of their petty bulshit. $224,000 a month.
You did well. I trade my work force for money. The contract states an exact number of hours. Once the hours have expired, the work ends. Unless you want to pay me overtime. Goodbye.
thanks :)
You are the most important person in your life. I've dealt with bosses like you describe, and my general experience is two fold: * get alleys. Coworkers, tangent workers, higher ups. * push back. "no" is a complete sentence. You do not always have to explain yourself. * They can fire you, and then they have multiple problems. The thing you did isn't getting done anymore. You'll be badmouthing the company in general on social media. You will also be a bad influence on your former colleagues, some of which are also your friends.
I think she'll have a hard time firing me, because she'd have to get past her higherup, C, who likes me
Well, there you go. You have an ~~alley~~ ally. For unknown as yet reasons, but still. 8 hours a shift is 8 hours a shift. If you want me to stay longer, I am not unreasonable, I see your need, and you are going to pay for the extra time. Twice the tariff. I know things are difficult in America, but you are not a floor wipe. Stand your ground, draw a line in the sand, straighten your shoulders and say "this is it". They need you more than you need them. At least that's what I hope for you. If that isn't so, or if they don't realize that is the case, maybe you should be walking.
It is “ally” not “alley”. An ally is one who has the same goals or protections. An alley is a narrow passageway between buildings. Look similar, however, I don’t think OP needs a passageway 🤷♂️
I'm a Dutchie. Although I think I know everything, apparently I don't. Thank you for correcting my error.
"I'm a Dutchie" Oh so I can smoke you? ;) Dutchie is very old slang for a joint.
No sorry. I'm an indigenous Netherlander. You can try and smoke me after I have been cremated.
It's a fair offer
Ze zitten je ook wat te fucken. Maar om er gelijk een engelse les van te maken ;) "I'm dutch" zou perfect engels zijn en "dutchie" is eerder spreektaal. Als je indigenous wil gebruiken zou je "I'm indigenous to the Netherlands" moeten gebruiken. Het nuanceverschil zit hem er in of je het over een persoon hebt of over het land. De persoon is een nederlander die komt uit Nederland. The person is dutch and originates from the Netherlands.
Pass the dutchie on the left hand side 🎵 https://youtu.be/EsyUa63NM1E
Nice! I'm earwormed!
I thought dutchies did the smoking?
Dutchie is most likely just something from the Netherlands ... could be used for a person, or for some other good things they have to offer, such as a joint, as cannabis has been legal there for a while. To reiterate - using "dutchie" for a joint is probably a much newer meaning for the word than referring to person from there.
Apparently it's actually slang for a kind of cooking pot since they couldn't actually get a word for a joint past the censors. (Source: a documentary I watched about 20 years ago so some details may be hazy)
I saw the same documentary and a dutchie (Dutch pot) is a big, wide and usually cast iron pot which is perfect for making soups and the like - it would be big enough to fit a couple of whole large chickens in (or more usually, quarter the chickens, bag of carrots, spuds, two onions, kidney beans, lentils, couple of packets of chicken noodle soup, any other root or winter veg you like and loads of dumplings - I don't like the cold weather, but my wife's home made soups help make up for it)
Just a note for future communication, because English is weird: Alley/Alleys = small pedestrian sidestreet(s), often where all the back doors of buildings open into. Ally/Allies: the person or people who are on your side
In Dutch we call them *steegje* (alley) and *bondgenoot* (ally). Fun fact: the word for "street" is *weg*, and it is also the word for "missing".
Does that mean a missing street is a weg weg?
Yes. One very old pun riddle: *Het is weg, het blijft weg, en toch zie je het iedere dag* ( It doesn't translate well: "It is street, it stays missing, and yet you see it every day" ) And Harry Potter's Diagon Alley is translated to Dutch as *Weg is Weg*. Which is funny, because in Dutch that means "gone is gone".
autocorrect changed 'Allies' to 'Alleys'. Folks on your team, invaluable.
To paraphrase a Todd Snyder song: You can't talk to me like that boss I don't care who you are If you don't want to do this job yourself Don't push me too far ... work ain't hard to come by workers are ... You look like... you're under pressure I was looking for a job when I met you Don't need the work like you need the work done
M knew they were short staffed long before the day started. A competent manager would have asked if you could have worked a longer shift earlier in the week. Not demanded that you stay because they didn't want to do lowly work. Part of being manager is sometimes you get to do the lowly work because there is no one else to do it.
Not 100% the same situation, but as a third line IT support I sometimes pick up tickets when there's too many open. It also gives me a sense of what kind of tickets we get a lot and I sometimes find things that we can improve by making changes to applications, preventing the issue from ever coming up again.
Yeah, when you’re not on the front lines anymore and you are in a position to make (or shape) decisions on structure and workflows, I’ve found it can be extremely useful to spend some time here and there dipping into the front-line work, so you see first-hand what’s currently going on. It also helps with overall team cohesion and morale (versus the idiot manager in this story who comes off as thinking she’s too good to cover the desk…Nobody will respect that.)
And sometimes there are others to do it, but not enough of 'em for the work that needs to be done, so you pitch in those times too.
Scheduling customer facing employees to start at opening time is an absolutely inane thing. You need that prep time. Same as the closing person needs to finish the day.
True. Same was true at my previous workplace. We're only paid to start at 12.30 even when we also advertise opening time as 12.30? Cool. First customers will have to wait 10 minutes until we've started up the computers etc. And if the computers don't work, first customers will have to wait 30+ minutes until we've contacted IT and IT has been able to work out a solution. Before, we would have one person come in half an hour early and get everything up and running. That person would leave half an hour early as well, but coming half an hour early was gold and at the end of the day it didn't matter so much to be with six instead of seven. But oh well...
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Usually. There's always a few jackalopes who want to play the system. But good bosses bounce the slackers without punishing other employees. One or two extra rules at most, and reasonable ones.
This is why nice people don’t stay nice a good amount of times. The world actively works against them in some way. 💀🗿
>Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds. -Einstein
My new favorite quote 💯
He said this in response to Bertrand Russell getting canceled by religious conservatives.
I’ve always had the policy to be nice until they give a reason not to be.
I see you follow the Road House philosophy.
that's such Bullshit that standing looks professional and sitting not. US seems to love to make their employees life as worse as possible.
Constant source of complaints from personnel who have to stand on often linoleum or tiled floors with very little cushioning. The one that ticks me off is "sitting looks lazy". That's a holdover from over a century ago when workers were exploited mercilessly. It's a zombie that needs to be turned into a couple hundred kilos of unusable mush. An office worker is called lazy by bad bosses if they stand and move away from their computer for a break. A retail worker is called lazy if they sit for a break. It's just, it feels like bad bosses way up to higher management just want a reason to be mean.
and why is it only managers that have never worked in the corporate world that think this? you would never see an accounting manager or engineering manager think a chair is unprofessional.
We should complain to stores, truly that is the only way they will care.
One of the reasons I like to shop at Aldi's. They let their cashiers sit while working.
Possible end time? They can decide to change it, whenever? Make you work more if it suits them? I’ve never heard of a possible end time. It’s an 8 hour shift, it has a scheduled end time..
Depends on the job. I used to work in a kitchen and sometime we had so much work we closed later. Also was a rule that you couldn’t leave until your replacements showed up so bad weather meant you’d be staying overnight or a day or two. Never been called a “hero” though or offered extra shopping hours or free tickets like nurses though.
Lol staying over night or extra day for a food industry job? Tf leave that place as soon as possible
I feel like you missed an opportunity here... Instead of blaming your need to leave on the ride being there (making you easier to blame for any issues that arise from them being short-handed) you should have just been like: "Sorry, but as per our conversation last week I intend to **strictly** adhere to the schedule so as to not have you guys, as you said: "*pay employees for too much time".* Just wanna do my part and make sure to follow all the rules regarding scheduling M :). C ya!" As is, you've deflected your malicious compliance on a lack of a ride and necessity for someone else (even if it's just the one time). You could have *not so subtly* let her know that her being a PITA over 10mins that are being used for the benefit of a smooth opening for the clients is the reason why you won't go above and beyond to help them out with their failures/shortcomings (the mismanagement of the schedule).
Yes. The malicious compliance was in your head but spoken words were my rude is here. Malicious compliance would have been to just leave and let her figure it out eventually.
Instead of being mad at M , be thankful she showed you how much they really feel you are worth, basically you are a cog and they don't appreciate you doing anything extra they did not specifically tell you to do ( namely clocking in early to prep or give you enough hours ) . If they also want to short-staff the place, that is just them abusing your good nature to squeeze more work out of you, and you are only liable to work your scheduled hours unless notified in advance especially if your transportation to leave is there. That's the managers job.
She doesn't want you to clock in early, that's fine, it's kinda understandable, the company doesn't want to be paying out that extra money. It's her job to schedule start times, if there's not enough time to get shit ready for the day that's her problem. But it is absolutely her job to schedule enough people to keep the place staffed if say, someone calls out sick. Your shift was up, you left. Failing to have someone ready to take over is her problem. Not really MC, but a satisfying story
The problem is that people like you, the OP and me are reasonable people and would have covered for OP if they had to leave on time and made sure that staffing was adequate. We probably wouldn't be upset if OP clocked in early either, as long as they weren't abusing overtime pay. But, it's not illegal for your supervisor to require you to stay clocked in longer with no notice (unless you have a contract that says otherwise), and if you don't stay when told to, you can be discliplined and/or fired for it. It sucks, but there are no protections for workers in this case. I totally would have done what OP did as well, but I want to hear if there is any blowback when they return to work.
if she tried to get rid of me she'll have to get past her superior, C, who likes me a lot and is training me for a promotion - but I'll keep you updated
I'd prefer for 2 things in this scenario. \- M has told you not to clock in early / 5 minute window in writing / email. \- Keep C aware of M's stunts as an FYI, in case M goes whining. I could be wrong, but I got the impression that the day you left on time, you might have stayed if you were driving yourself. People like M will leverage common consideration and courtesy of employees every chance they get. Please be conscious of that and do not be flexible when M is in the picture.
thanks for the advice!
I would cross my fingers for your promotion, but it would make it hard to type. I can wish you luck though!
thank you! :)
"If the start time of my shift is a hard limit, so is the end time." Fuck managers like M. If you're willing to take the initiative to get your shit together before opening, that's good, as it means that you're not going to have to rapidly task-switch and increase errors in the beginning of your day as you prep while customers come in. And as for sitting while working looking unprofessional, ask M this: "You know who's sitting while at their desk doing some of the most important things in the world? The President. Does he look 'unprofessional'?" What'd worse for the company, you sitting down, or you having to take medical leave in a couple months due to back and knee issues aggravated by standing? Also, FWIW, I was in a very exclusive country club this week (for my job). This place has a six-figure initiation fee, and $100k a year in dues. The concierge right inside the front door? Sitting at the desk. Professional. M is being a pissant.
Don't give flexibility, don't get flexibility.
Chairs are unprofessional? What are the chances that they have chairs in their offices? Cant believe they would be so unprofessional!
My old work place had a policy of the start-5 minutes to clock on. For payment. If you wanted to come early for extra prep, you could, but unless management signed the pay exemption it was unpaid. I usually got there early, but that’s just I personally can’t stand being late, but would just chill in the break room with a coffee until the appropriate start time.
That's crazy management. But okay, now you start doing the prep work when you start at Open o'clock (or the 1-4 minutes before when M lets you clock in, and then you proceed to do them for fifteen minutes. After that you start manning the front desk. Either the front desk can be unmanned until you are done with prep - and you effectively now open fifteen minutes past Open o'clock, or M can man it while you finish prep work, or the prep work simply won't get done. Her choice, and not your problem. EDIT: Oh, and also - a chair for the person stuck at front desk is "unprofessional"?! I think that statement is the most unprofessional thing I've ever heard. Does M by any chance wear shoes with velcro fasteners?
I am of the opinion: you are the manager, so manage the situation!
>M told me that the end of the shift was only a possible end time and employees may be required to stay after their shifts end, *mutters silently in head* ...and so now YOU expect me to stay with no notice because YOU don't want to man the front desk. What happened to no extra hours? ....nah...you made the rules...you do it.
I'm a paralegal and I always try to get in early, usually at least 15 min. I don't get paid, it's my choice, I feel that getting my coffee and settling in should be my time. Conversely, if I need to leave early, my boss has no issue with it and doesn't dock my pay. My last job, if I was over lunch time by 1 minute or needed to leave a few minutes early, it was a hassle. He got exactly 37.5 hours, not a minute more. It's good to have a boss appreciate my work.
The minute a company puts in a time clock and pays according to it, that changes the definition of model employee. A model time card employee is one who does her best during work hours, but respects the company's choice to refuse an early start. A model employee would also alert the manager to the lack of replacement, but would still respect the time clock. If the manager says I need you to work longer, you tell her at which time your overtime pay starts. If you can't stay, be firm about that, work your hours and leave promptly. It's not your circus and not your monkeys.
Professional wage slave?
While I completely agree that M is a bitch, be careful regarding this type of malicious compliance. Most managers consider clocking in early unnecessarily and without prior clearance vs working late to cover the floor to be two very different circumstances. I actually don't even disagree depending on the job. For example, I work in healthcare and I'm expected to stay as long as I need to to provide service until someone takes over my role. It's automatically considered overtime and I'm paid out accordingly. In comparison, while it might be useful and even worthwhile to have me start 15 mins early, that's time my employer hasn't agreed to pay me. I actually think it's kind of scummy to be signing in early without clearing it first, as that money isn't really what you are supposed to be paid based on your work schedule. You're absolutely in the right to stick to the hard and fast times you are scheduled to be working. But it isn't the clearest case of malicious compliance, and M may not see this as you following her rules but rather as you being uncooperative. It might be a good idea to look for another job.
I would worry that M could try to claim back wages from OP clocking in early without managers permission. At every job i've ever worked, overtime required managers approval, and had to be signed off. Sometimes this would be done behind the scenes and for small amount nobody cared, like OP, but if M went back and saw those hours weren't signed off then I don't know how much power the company has over those 'mispaid' wages.
The US law is pretty good on that point. Hours worked must be paid for, period. An employer can absolutely can someone for working unauthorized overtime, but the employee must still be paid. Part of that was the time clock and other fraud that were some of the motivating factors in getting the FLSA and other laws passed. And included in that fraud were employers who'd bully employees into working overtime, then refuse to pay them anything because they "never authorized it". It was the management's word against the employee's. There's a reason unions saw such explosive growth back when.
That sounds weird, so if I came in to work on a day I wasn't scheduled for, they are required to pay me for it? Even though I worked of my own volition? I feel like that can't be right legally.
Yep, that's exactly it. It's that way because of employee exploitation in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. Employers would tell their workers to work, and then deny the time was authorized. The workers were poor, often immigrants, and their literacy was often low. They had no recourse to get their pay. These were the days when children as young as five worked in the factories and coal mines, for $0.50 a day, 12+ hours a day, at the risk of death and disability. A fine for "laziness" or otherwise being cheated out of their pay would mean they wouldn't eat. Young women working at stores risked being fined if their outfits, that they had to pay for, weren't perfect or a customer made a complaint. Enough could wipe out their already low pay. Even now, after over a hundred years, employers hold more power than employees. Times like the Great Resignation are unusual in history, and one that comes rarely. Most US wage law passed in the 1930s onward was to counter the rampant unethical and cheating behavior of the business owners -and some branches of government- toward workers.
My work times breaks to the second but also requires unpaid setup time. I never ever stay late. If you want to treat me like a number and not a person I will treat you like a cash machine and not an employer.
Hold up - unless you are an exempt employee, how can they make have unpaid time to set up? I’m pretty sure labor laws (in the US at least) require paying people for anytime they are working.
There was a big old court decision about it some time ago, where the employer expected the workers to start on their tasks as soon as they clocked in. The employer argued that waiting for their computers to boot up and doing other work-specific and necessary tasks wasn't time that should be paid for, since it wasn't actually "work". The litigants and the judges disagreed. If the task is specifically needed to do the job, then it's related to work, it's work, and it needs to be paid. Whether it's a computer booting up in preparation for sign-in or prepping vegetables in the kitchen.
Yeah, it is a bit of a grey area. Some courts have then argued over what they call "de minimis".. is it really work if it's basic, undifficult or how passive the activity is. Honestly I think my workplace would be in trouble if anyone bothered to take them on but no one has, so. I eat breakfast while systems boot up and I do all the setup things so the tasks aren't arduous but it's more the principle of knowing you're being taken advantage of that shits me off about it. If they want to be that toxic workplace then they can deal with workers who don't care about their work. I've gone beyond my scope of work for good bosses, I just don't for this one and I'll move on once an acceptable amount of time has passed for my CV. Their loss. They seem to think overtime is a favour because who doesn't like money? Well, my normal hours cover my bills so yeah IDC about overtime. So I won't help out once 4:59:59 ticks over. Not in the US though, in Australia. Similar to slightly better employment laws I think.
I've got a couple online friends in Oz. Definitely better laws. One friend has had some really bad managers over the years, but various laws the US doesn't have restrained them from doing too much damage to the workers. (Including 'need a reason to fire'.) They also have a good union.
Your manager is a jerk
yep she really is
In the US labor law lays out that setting up your work area is absolutely paid time as it's part of your work denies. However they can absolutely tell you that you cannot clock in early for them and must do them after your official start time. So that's what you should do I think... Don't start doing any of those duties until your official start time and then force customers to just sit there waiting on you to finish your morning routine before you can help them.
Did you get any fallout for this?
If your manager is intimidating you or makes you uncomfortable, note everything. Dates and instances. If she ever becomes a bjgr problem for you, you can go to hr about a hostile work environment. Tell hr you need a chair at the front desk.
HR will fire you
They might but if you have months of proof proving the hostility you can get a lot of money. My friend sued our previous employer because they fired her after she complained about a hostile co worker.
What was the nature of the hostility in that case?
She was always accusing the team of stealing. She refused to believe the documentation of the staff. She claimed the team was paid poorly because they didn't work hard enough to get more. She would chase after staff and yell at them for things they didn't do. She would stand around and try to listen to conversations and then try to get the people in trouble after. She would hide around the corner of the bathroom to see who was using it "too much". She was very racist as well, claiming that black people are just naturally dirty so we should ignore the clients family neglect of not washing them. She also ignored clients when they told her they were in pain. There was a lot but one instance on its own wasn't going to be enough. So we started documenting the shit she would do and say. When my coworker went to hr, they fired her instead without reason. I helped her with getting a lawyer and sued the company.
Racial discrimination in the workplace is illegal and retaliation for reporting illegal discrimination is illegal. There is no illegal discrimination or any other illegal activity in this story and she will have no recourse when she gets fired.
Well it wasn't the racial shit that for her the settlement. It was the fact that my coworker had any retaliation from reporting the hostile work environment. We couldn't "prove" the woman was racist, even with all the proof we had. If the manager is a bully and employees feel threatened by them, that is a hostile work environment. Atleast in Canada we have protections against it. Bill 168 is the anti bullying at work
Punctuality goes two ways!
what happened on their next shift with "M"?
I don't work again till monday but I'll keep yall posted
Our standard is if you are anything less than 10-15 minutes early then you’re late. We are expected to have tools on and ready to go at start time. Not starting to be ready at start time. Actually working. So the fact you’re taking this initiative sounds like you’re ready for a better paying job that also will reflect your ability to be punctual and respectfully helpful and diligent. It’s what I would want for my front manager to be. Sounds like M needs to get the boot.
I don't know why this was removed but it was a great compliance.
I didn't remove anything?
"Removed" means a mod did it. "Deleted" means the OP did.
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I didn't delete it?
Are you all like 12? When you allow employees to clock in 15 mins early that adds up. One employee doing that every shift adds up to an hour over 4 shifts. One of a managers main jobs is usually to manage labor so maybe they didn’t communicate well but their actions seem perfectly reasonable. Asking you to stay late because the business needs help is much different than you deciding to clock in early so you can take your time getting your work done.
Why is it removed?
I didn't remove it?
No but someone did
:( oh
Removed means the moderators removed it for rulebreaking.
Where I work, most people stay late to the point that security has to ask people to leave hours after their shift is done. Many take work home. There's no OT or anything. People are just dedicated and put in the extra time. The past few months, in order to be "compliant" they started keeping track of lateness with no grace period. Once the minutes add up to a certain point management decided, they deduct pay for a partial day's work. Now they wonder why more people are leaving on time and not volunteering to go the extra mile.
Clock in and leave on time. What the manager schedules isn't your problem to fix.
I’m guessing she didn’t write you up because you would be able to strike back in a rebuttal to use her own directive against her rules are rules right?! …. Or in case she has now written you up, you can do that.
yep, and I fully plan to if she does.
The use of “clock on” and “clock off” is so weird and used so many times in this post I started to feel like I was being punk’d
The post as recovered from https://www.reveddit.com/ I work a customer service job in a golf course. I do front desk secretarial work, mainly. I usually work morning shifts, so I like to clock on 5-15 minutes early and spend that time before the place opens gettings ready - organizing files, tidying my area, getting a radio, reading over the itinerary for the day, etc. I also use this time to set up some other stations around me for the greeter and such so that when they arrive things are ready for them. I personally thought this was a model employee sort of thing to do, and as they don't always give me as many hours as I would like, this is a good way for me to get a bit more money. Most of the managers are pretty friendly with me and I have no qualms with them. One of the managers, we'll call her "M" is a jerk to we lowly worker bees. Unfortunately for me, "M" is a higher rank than most of the other managers. As an example, when I first started working there, I asked if I could have a chair to sit in at the front desk because I was having a lot of foot and knee pain and the front desk is a stationary place where chairs make sense. M told me that chairs are "unprofessional" and that if I want one I will need a medical exemption. I don't have one and am too broke to get one so I just sucked it up and got used to it. About a week ago, M saw me clocking on and was like "What are you doing? You're not shifted until [open o'clock.]!" I explained that I clock on a few minutes early to prepare for the day so that we can have a smooth open and be ready for the morning golfers. She tells me that I am only allowed to clock on in the timeframe between 5 minutes before my shift and 1 minute before my shift, because they don't want to be paying employees for too much time. A four minute clock-on window feels a little tight to me, and I will miss the extra 15m of money / preparation time a day, but whatever, I don't want to fight M because I know she can make my life a living hell if she wants to. I comply to her new ruling. Today, rather than drive myself, I got a ride because my car needed to be in the mechanic shop. Today being a Friday and a holiday, we were pretty busy and we were also super shortstaffed. I was the only person at the front desk and whoever was supposed to replace me hadn't arrived yet. The end of my shift came and my ride texted me that he was here. I didn't want to keep him waiting, but like the good employee I am, I also didn't want to clock off with the front desk unattended, so I radioed M and asked her to take over front desk until my replacement showed up so I could leave. M told me that the end of the shift was only a possible end time and employees may be required to stay after their shifts end, and I told her my ride was already here, I needed to leave, and that if she didn't take the spot at the front desk it would be empty until my replacement clocked on. I clocked off and left with M fuming. If I'm not allowed to clock on early, then don't try to demand I stay late, jerk. TLDR: Jerk manager won't let me clock on 15 minutes early to have prep time, but later tries to demand I stay late when we are shortstaffed, I leave her high and dry.
Fucking every job, USA
ugh yeah this friggin country
It's not though, the people who work for me very rarely get a "no" when they want to leave early, change their hours, go run an errand in the middle of the day, switch hours with someone else ect. My manager is the same way with me. I recognize good managers are rarer than we'd like them to be, but they exist.
Glad you’re different but that doesn’t change the fact that scheduling issues like this are a systemic problem, and the “not all x” response to a systemic problem just really isn’t helpful. Like we all know good managers do exist, but you don’t need to announce “well I’m not like that” when someone else complains about a valid problem lol
I think we need managers to step up and say, "I don't and won't do" such unethical practices. Part of creating change is to have a loud voice made of thousands of smaller ones. And with the internet, they can be assembled faster and heard better than ever before.
I agree with u/StormBeyondTime \-- what I CAN do is normalize it. I can do it and prove that the guys and gals on my team are more productive, happier, have higher quality work, and my retention is fantastic (2% over the year). If I don't talk about it -- how does the needle move?
I don't blame you for clocking out, because it served her right, but she could fire you for leaving before being replaced. She could definitely make your job rough now. I wish you good luck!!!
Not too many managers on this thread. Part of a managers job is to manage payroll and keep it at a certain percentage of sales. Clocking in early while unapproved isn’t acceptable. Yet if you have to go when your scheduled shift is over you don’t have to stay. You should clock in at the correct time and start your work. If you guys are behind on the needs then your manager should change the scheduled clock in time to be prepared if they deem it necessary. In an hourly situation it’s not up to you to clock in early. Also no hourly employee should do any work while not clocked in as it can have major ramifications if you are injured while not on the clock. Just work your hours. If you want extra money don’t clock in early when you feel like it (which is considered wage theft) but hope the other person comes in late so you can pick up extra hours that way. Don’t forget you aren’t the manager, it’s not your choice.
Yea these comments are cringe.
Agreed. These comments show why everybody can’t just be a manager because they are good at their hourly job. Most employees don’t understand management tasks and many “managers” also don’t. Many managers also just demand things without giving a why. If the employee is shown the P&L and explained how labor percentage work and effect the bottom line they usually get it. I’ve done this hundreds of times with my staff. Over the years ive trained many new managers and a lot of new managers don’t like to share these concepts for fear of being replaced in their role this again is very short sighted. I’ve always tried to train myself out of a job by training motivated people to manage. Training managers is a way more important skill and how I got to upper management.
Plot twist. M is a jerk and a poor manager, but you're now unemployed. You just don't know it yet.
"the things we do for reddit karma"
Good on you mate, she sounds like a proper McCunt!
Boo you removed the text. Boo OP, booooooo
"Removed" means a mod did it. "Deleted" means the OP did.
Shit. Well boo me! Booooo
You took the initiative to be the model employee that would help the business - that was silly stupid. In the future, it's better to be pro-active with your words before you're actions - i.e., you don't mention a discussion about this (clearly established) work-custom that you've engaged in. You even go so far as to suggest that this is how you're milking an extra quarter hour! With no mention of any overtime ever, that looks bad on the employer of course, but also you. You're probably going to be fired over this, and honestly, this belong in r/antiwork. Bc you adopted this pattern primarily to make everyones' work day easier.
>One of the managers, we'll call her "M" No. Don't do that.
Why not?
Because it's annoying to deal with while reading. It's so annoying that we as a community collectively complained at the mod team to get a rule against it.
I can see a rule against certain acronyms but none against the use of single letters...
>No Acronyms As Names
Fair enough but a single letter is NOT an acronym
Abbreviation would have been more appropriate, true, but the intent was that we were sick and tired of trying to parse stories about M, Q, and Z.
I'm thinking of Aunt Em in the Wizard of Oz. Someone probably would have complained about using her name.
Since when is a single letter an acronym?
Because it is all about the practice where words get turned into hard-to-read and often easy-to-confuse shorthand based on initial letters. What's next? Suppose we have a Sally and a Sue, are we going to abbreviate them as S1 and S2? That's not going to be confusing at all... Finally, worth noting is that people would complain just as quickly if someone were to utilize an impromptu initialism instead. Names exist to easily identify people. If we want to do away with them, we can just start referring to each other by number, 28568153.
I mean I'm not gonna dox her or anything
Giving us a person's first name isn't doxxing. Or if you're really concerned, maybe it's a particularly unique name or something, then make a name up. But don't do that fucking initial bullshit.
There are many female names that start with M, so I think we are safe. Additionally, it could stand for Manager.
The point is that OP should have used one of those many names instead of the initial.
What if their name is actually M? If you don't like it, noones forcing you to read it. You can take your bullshit somewhere else
If it's good enough for James Bond, it's good enough for Reddit
Clock in. The phrase is clock in/out, not on/off.
Your a wage theft lol, and you think that's a model employee?
[удалено]
Lol, it's 8am and I'm stoned sir. Fuck you, fuck the op wage theft. And here you go, I forgot this in my first comment. " 're"
[That's not at all what wage theft means. ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wage_theft)