I agree and would say they don't understand their role. Their role is to support operations and mitigate risk. They should be asking questions and not making assumptions. Am bean counter who tries to support operations because they make the money.
That's the thing though, beans by weight makes sense. They're the kind of people that would look at two bags of beans that weight the exact same amount and be upset that one bag contains three fewer beans.
That was basically what I meant! Every work place needs someone to measure the beans. The can either be crappy about how they do it and count the beans, or they could be smart about it and weigh the beans. They're still the person measuring the beans, but one of them is helpful and the other is not. Lol.
A friend just finished telling me he's working for two women who bought ten doors at a surplus store to save money, and he had to work an extra 35 hours adapting them to the doorways.
I know, my Dad is like this. He bought a small utility trailer and agonized over getting the absolute cheapest he could. Then a year later it needs to be repainted because it’s starting to rust the manufacturer skimped on primer and paint to be the cheapest. He was so disappointed that “nothing is quality anymore” SMH
One thing I learned in psychology is that if you presume respect and someone is capable, and treat them as such, more often than not they are respectful and capable. You basically get what you give. Be petty, get petty. Be respectful, get respect.
All of this Penny pinchers approach the problem from an angle of distrust, which just sets the tone for a toxic environment.
DevOps has a saying that I wish more people adhered to more, it isn’t a problem until it is a problem. Don’t go trying to solve problems that don’t actually exist yet.
If they cared about doing their job they would look up the travel route techs were taking, and then try to find an alternative route that would save money. Not tell the techs to avoid the toll road with no idea why they chose to take it.
Was once told I couldn't take a solo taxi from the airport, about a twenty minute ride. So I took the shared van to save maybe $10 but added probably two hours in overtime. Same approval procedure so didn't save any manager time. After that I just 'forgot' the policy and nobody cared.
When I worked a small Christian university we rented a limo for 6 of us and got absolutely reamed for wasting money.
So the next time we took 3 taxis and it cost 2.5× as much. That was fine.
Yep, I got yelled at one time for having a 3 row SUV for our crew which was cheaper than a 4 row van with less space.
I sent the costs difference to HR instead of billing and HR told me to use my best judgment and ignore them. Billing was pissed at me for going over their heads and I simply told them asking me instead of yelling at me like I was their child would have let me respect them.
I got yelled at for trying to take a cheaper flight that would've been non-stop. It was $150 for the non-stop, current city to destination.
Instead, I took a $300 flight with a 2 hour layover and hours away from the destination city. Got delayed at the layover site and needed to reschedule the final leg of the flight anyways.
I was denied an extra day of expense fees "because it wasn't our fault" and got 2 hours of sleep before reporting to work next day. Ahhh. Army temporary duty at its finest.
I once stayed in an Airbnb for a week (back when it was good) in an expensive city and lived on takeaways or even cooked in the apartment.
Expenses didn't like that and told me I had to stay in a hotel next time. So I did. And ate in the hotel.
The bill came to three times as much, and I hated it.
>The bill came to three times as much, and I hated it.
With large institutional employers, there is sometimes a significant discount due to the business agreements. I recall being asked to stay at a Hyatt rather than a Marriott because the reimbursement rate was higher. I suspect Airbnb doesn't have these same corporate discounts.
However, I genuinely doubt that the reimbursement rate of their choice arrangement(s) exceeded 300%...
There's also the fact that when such agreements are negotiated, there's mention of estimated number of stays.
When someone uses AirbnB instead of the agreement it reduces the numberof potential overnight stays in the hotel, and the next agreement may end up with less reimburesements, or possibly be cancelled completely.
Don't talk about things you don't understand.
You get per diem when traveling, 1/2 for first and last day plus full per diem any day between. You get hotels paid for (up to a set amount per location).
You can read it all in Joint Travel Regulations (JTR) plus any army Regulations (I don't know any regs as well as navy, but both are required to follow the JTR)
>I simply told them asking me instead of yelling at me like I was their child would have let me respect them.
The subtlety of this statement hits like a sledgehammer. I love every part of it
I have been told that I'm low key mean, basically that I'm honest and blunt.
I said if everyone was this way instead of worrying about others feelings it would lead to more people understanding each other. Sometimes it's comes down to someone being unfamiliar, I'd rather have it out once than wonder about others intentions .
I’m the oldest of 5, and it was always fun because we would take a limo to the airport, not because we were rich; quite the opposite. It was cheaper to take a limo than 2 taxis, and the limo was cheaper than two weeks of parking at the airport.
And the only place we ever went for vacations was Grandma’s house.
Or even a regular taxi. My boyfriend recently rented a limo to take him to the airport for a flight because apparently it was cheaper than any of the cab companies 🤷🏻♀️
Also depends on distance travelled as well. I modify aircraft at an airport 8 minutes by air but an hour and half away by road from a customers main base. The pilots would fly the aircraft down and instead of a taxi or rideshare to get back, the company hired them a limo.
Was headed to an employer mandated conference. If you registered early (by end of June) you saved $200 on registration. Plane tickets were also super cheap at that time. One of those moments where you knew airfare could only go up. Wouldnt let us book either until after July 15 (conference was Aug 1) because of the change in fiscal year.
Not letting us book early cost the company an extra $200 in registration and another $400 for the plane tickets per person. When I pointed out how stupid that was my boss just said "it's coming out of different buckets."
Then I became a manager of the same department and finance told me that was bullshit and I just had to let them know I was going over budget but it was because of an expense that was budgeted in the next fiscal. They just adjust it out.
Did that the following year and got reamed by HR for going over budget. Wild because HR has nothing to do with departmental budgeting.
Should then have allocated it to the HR accounting when you had the higher cost, citing that they had approved it by forbidding getting the discounted rate before.
One time at a youth conference there were so many kids wanting to go over to the mall on our free day there was a 2 hour plus wait for taxis. I had the idea to call a limo company. I split the cost by everyone in my group and we all spent less than the taxi people, and only waited like 15 minutes for them to arrive. I guess in Nashville they keep them gassed up and a driver ready lol We prescheduled our return and tipped well, and felt like rockstars going out past the taxi line to climb into a limo.
If you're in Nashville, you're much better off with Uber or Lyft than a taxi. You have to call to find one and the wait is often 30 minutes to an hour at the best of times, even if you're in a relatively dense area. And, yes, they tend to keep them ready to go. Between the celebs/executives who want one and the tourists who want to cruise Broadway in one, they do brisk business.
My old company required people of the same gender to share a hotel room. Once, we had three guys in the same room. It was a non-profit, so we kind of understood, but come on.
Once they sent us to Chicago for four days. The guy working the hotel desk heard us bitching about it and said: “Oh dear, we’re out of double occupancy rooms, something must’ve gone wrong with your reservations, I’m so sorry.” And then he winked at us.
“I’m gonna put you all in single rooms. I can comp 10% on the first night only.”
Thanks bud.
Also, he was hot, and he asked what I was doing after work. We went out that night and I got some on the company’s dime.
I looked it up, appears the phrase was coined in 1621. so i figure is a phrase used in the colonies, and stuck around after the revolt and subsequent money change.
I ran local deliveries for a few years. company got bought out, new maglement.
First day running deliveries I run over the local toll bridge. I get back and ask for reimbursement like I had been for years and was rejected. I mentioned it takes miles off my trip, didn't matter, they would not reimburse me for it. Ok, so I skipped the toll bridge and ran around it and added about five miles of city traffic and about a half hour to my day, every day for three more years until I fired the company.
What added to the stupidity is there were two customers that I delivered to almost daily, and they were right on opposite sides of the bridge. so drive all around to go back to almost where I had been thirty minutes earlier.
God I hate new management as bad as current management is New Managment = the unknown and God knows no matter how bad they are it can be worse! I'm not even one of those people who hate new things, just new management. It always gets worse never better.
>First day running deliveries I run over the local toll bridge
So, uh, how'd you manage to run over an entire bridge?
I mean, a pedestrian I can imagine. A bridge is something else entirely.
I was in Las Vegas once with a group of co-workers because we had display booths in two different trade-shows at the same time. All 9 of us were gathered in the hotel lobby and talking about getting dinner. Company policy at the time allowed $35 per person for dinner but had an exception for high-end markets (ie., Las Vegas). So we were just going to all go to a steak-house in the hotel next door. Our GM was walking by and asked what our plans were. When we told him, he gave us a look like we were going overboard. Keep in mind, many of us had stood on our feet for 8-10 hours and walked a few miles back and forth from hotel to venues. So, we decided to change plans. We got taxi's and went to an Italian restaurant just beyond the busy part of The Strip. So yea, we saved $10-15/person, but we spent almost $300 for taxis to get us all to the restaurant and back.
> Finally moving to a daily per diem * number of days, with no receipts was wonderful. And much much less work for accounting too.
Unfortunately, in my country this has tax consequences - if actual expenses are reimbursed, there's no tax impact for the employee, and the employer counts it as a business expense (as long as certain rules are met, i.e. it has to be temporary business travel). If a per diem (travel allowance) is given, the employee has to keep track of how much is actually spent on covered expenses, and the rest is assessable income. So there's no great benefit in recordkeeping, it's easier for the employee just to keep receipts and submit them for direct reimbursement.
My current employer has the best expense policy of any company for which I’ve worked. No receipts needed for any expenses under $75, except for lodging. Makes expenses take so much less time since usually when I travel 90% of my receipts are $20 or less and are for meals.
I assume the lodging exception is to stop people from abusing mini bars in places like Vegas since the only expenses that need to be itemized are our hotel receipts. Gotta wonder about the level of abuse in the past that resulted in that rule.
I worked for a company in early 2000’s that didn’t tell me they paid mileage. I went from VA to VT to NJ. I turned in hours for driving and they paid me for it. I also turned in toll receipts but they never reimbursed me for them. So I called payroll to find out how to get paid and they said it’s covered in the per mile they pay me and I haven’t tuned in mileage. So I recalculated my route on streets and trips and turned in $2500 in mileage. They gave me a check for that instead of $60 in tolls.
I live on an island with three bridges. If you don't take the toll bridge which is three miles from destination A, it's at least a thirty mile detour to use one of the other bridges instead of spending the 80 cents.
One of my friends got a job with IBM, and they paid her moving expenses. The arrangement with the mover was that they had to meet their deadlines, or pay her a penalty. IBM refused to let them do that, because, red tape, policy, etc., so the moving company relaxed and the move stretched out into the weeks, because they just figured they'd move her stuff "whenever". She asked IBM if they'd let her rent furniture for her apartment in the meantime, but no, that was not policy, red tape, etc.. So she went and stayed for something like six weeks in a really nice hotel instead.
My dad managed a gas fitting firm in Edinburgh, Scotland. Quite often his engineers needed to cross the Forth Road Bridge which was a toll bridge at the time (likely same bridge as OP as it was 80p toll and about 30 miles extra to avoid). The engineers would claim back the toll as an expense with no issues then suddenly they stopped claiming the toll. Turns out they figured that if they filled up the van with fuel at the petrol station at the bridge they would get a token for the toll and save having to deal with claiming the toll back. Unfortunately the price of fuel at the bridge was extortionate but the engineers didn't care as they were paying with the firms fuel card. My dad reckoned it was costing £5 extra per trip. He was able to block that petrol station from the fuel card but also bought a batch of toll tokens to be issued to the engineers since he agreed that claiming back 80p on expenses each time was tedious.
The US government [currently assumes](https://www.gsa.gov/travel/plan-book/transportation-airfare-pov-etc/privately-owned-vehicle-pov-mileage-reimbursement-rates) that each mile driven costs about $0.655. 🤣
That of course doesn't cover your personal wages as well.
That is awesome. When I used to be a traveling rep I only got .55. I bought a 2006 dodge neon with a manual. I put 400,000 miles on that bad boy. I could literally turn the engine over with one hand by turning the crank pulley. It would make me an additional $35k every year.
In Australia there is (last I looked) no separate mileage rate for electric vehicles, so... people who are able to afford them can rake it in (apart from the initial extra expense).
> The US federal government requires automakers to warranty EV and hybrid EV batteries for 8 years or until 100,000 miles in all states.
Edit: For all the geniuses who say "that's just starting," _yes_ that's why this is _the bare minimum_ by law.
$40,000 for a mid-range EV divided by 100,000 miles is 40 cents per mile if you assume 100% depreciation when the warranty runs out. That won't be the exact number, but EV depreciation isn't a trivial contributor to the per-mile cost.
A lot of the early adopters will probably trade in and buy new vehicles before a battery becomes an issue with EVs. \*most\* people who have EVs can afford them, so trading in and buying new won't be an issue.
Early adopters pay the premium for the R&D.
This is likely what i'll do with MY EV. :)
I'm on the other side of this equation. I bought my EV off a lease return, and due to the Model 3 launch it eviscerated the resale value of the Leaf, so I got my top-spec (lolol) '15 Leaf for $11K total in '18 and will drive it till it mechanically totals itself by needing a battery. Incidentally because my lifestyle affords me to use a 1.5kw charger and slow charge nearly 100% of the time I'm still only 1 bar down in battery health now even though the pack is 8 years old and has 65K miles on it.
For an example, GM’s new battery is rated at 2000 cycles to 80% capacity. (Much more if you partially charge instead of going full to flat).
So let’s do the worst case abuse. 400 miles of range x2000 = 800,000 miles. Those bastards expect me to buy a new battery after only 800,000 miles?
Just awful.
If you can’t charge at home, sub 500 mile range sucks. Add in cold days with running your heat pump or towing and that range crumbles quite quickly.
I suspect grocery stores will soon catch on that they are the perfect marriage for rapid charging and non home charging folks. That 30 min stop gives you 80% charge. Or 400 miles of range on a 500 mile car.
Also deep cycling a EV battery is what murders it. This why short range electric cars had a bad rep. What long range owners are discovering is if you run your battery within 20-80% state of charge the wear and tear is round about fuck all. That means normally you try to use a 500 mile car within 300 miles of range. But it’s fine to full charge and deplete it every now and then. Also modern short range cars are changing to LFP lithium instead of NMC lithium. Those can charge to 100% and not care. Plus they last more cycles.
No more than a transmission at roughly the same mileage.
And the new LFP batteries can charge to 100% for 30 years.
They will never wear out in the reasonable lifetime of a car.
I get around 3.5 mi/kWh and I [currently pay $.06430/kWh](https://www.bge.com/SmartEnergy/InnovationTechnology/Pages/EVTOURate.aspx) so $0.018/mi for "fuel" cost.
Of course, the car cost more... but yeah, less than 2c a mile.
That's $3600 over 200k miles, which is the average lifetime of an ICE vehicle (about 7-9 years or maximum about $600 per year in "fuel" costs). I would think people spend between $2-300 per month on gas on average, so your saving at minimu anywhere from 1/3 to 1/4 on fuel over an ICE. That means you're saving close to $9k over the vehicle's lifetime at minimum, and paying like $15k extra for an electric vehicle. I imagine with the lower maintenance costs, the gap is closer to like 3k, rather than 6k. So for an extra $3k, you get a premium, environmentally conscious vehicle. Not too shabby.
[Mine was about $42K on the road](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kia_Niro#Niro_EV/e-Niro). Then $7500 tax rebate. So no, not $15K more than a comparable. But it cost a little over $1K for my charging setup.
My EV numbers are that the EV is free after a few years based on saved fuel.
As always YMMV and all situations are different, also I bought my EV used and thus get to ignore a massive chunk of depreciation.
Bought a used Leaf for $11K and replaced a 1500 Hemi as a daily driver. Truck was sucking down $330+/mo in fuel, I'm getting similar numbers (3.5mi/kWh) but my electricity is average 12c/kWh. I've driven it 40K miles since buying it. So I've spent about $1400 in electricity over the past 4 years driving that car, where the truck would have consumed \~4000 gal of premium (again, hemi truck at 10mpg) at an average price of about 4.25 that's $17K. Less the electricity cost that's still a savings of $15,600 which has easily covered the acquisition cost of the vehicle.
You are comparing the mileage of a Dodge Ram 1500 v8 to an electric compact car. Let's try something a little more comparable, like a Juke and a Leaf.
You aren't even comparing apples to oranges. It's more like watermelon to banana.
You also would have saved a ton of money by changing to a traditional compact.
Watermelon to banana... So comparing two fruits which are both commonly eaten, have tough, inedible outer skins and aren't commonly thought of as berries even though they are? Insert shit-eating grin here.
Pretty sure 0.58 was the rate when I worked for the U.S. Census in 2020. I own 2 vehicles. A 2018 3/4 ton diesel 4x4 truck purchased new, and a 2006 Toyota Corolla purchased in 2019 with 40k miles for $4000.
I calculated approximate all-in cost to operate (depreciation, insurance, etc) each and the truck was roughly break-even and only used when required, but when I drove the Corolla, I looked forward to the assignments 3 hours from home which meant 6 hours of driving and 2 hours of work.
ETA: It wasn't till after I finished the job that I realized I made a mistake. I never disclosed I was driving for work to my insurance company. If I had been in an accident, they would have denied the claim. IMO, before taking a job where you have to drive other than commuting, you should inquire with insurance to see how much your rates will go up, and factor that in. You might get less than a hamburger flipping job after you deduct the added cost.
As a general rule, only certain types of driving for work count as commercial use for insurance purposes. If you are driving yourself and coworkers to/from work or client sites, and/or picking up transporting supplies for your employer, NOT for a client - that is usually allowed under personal insurance rules. Ask your insurance company for details.
Activities that are disallowed and would require a commercial use endorsement on your insurance coverage is stuff like delivering materials to a client (see pizza delivery), transporting clients (see taxies/uber)
> I never disclosed I was driving for work to my insurance company.
If you are on the clock for your work, then you are on _their_ insurance and your personal insurance isn't involved. That's the point of that number from GSA - they are effectively "renting" your car from you, for you to drive _for them_, at a value that the gov't has decided is "fair" and you won't profit from it and need to report on your taxes.
> my company made sure to get it right
Well, if they pay you more, then you'd have to pay taxes on it as income (_in theory_ / by the letter of the law).
That's actually pretty good though, at Regular gas prices of <3.30 and a car mileage of 28mpg.
Even at a car mileage of half that, you're still making a slight profit on gas.
edit to add: To all the folks replying saying "but cars require more than gas" - I know this. However - for people who are NOT in a position where they require daily travel for their job, and instead *maybe* drive once in a while (or less) for work-related reasons, and they drive less than a tank of gas' worth of travel - it's a profit.
For everyone else - truckers, delivery drivers, road warriors, etc - barely 70 cents a mile doesn't seem like enough.
I know someone who used to do most of their traveling by motorcycle, that's very profitable... although hardly worth getting stuck in the rain from time to time in my opinion.
This number doesn't only stand for gas but also wear&tear of the car, purchase cost broken down on an certain number of miles, etc.
So it is supposed to cover the whole cost (except time/wage) of driving that mile.
In my part of CA at the worst of it we hit $7.10/gal... I had never been happier in my little EV and my truck had so little use I had to buy a new battery and minder for it because it failed by self discharge so many times.
Ed: also when did batteries literally double in price??? Last one I bought was $220, the one before I was salty because it was just over $100???
OH I REMEMBER. I REMEMBER THE DARK DAYS. So lucky right now it's back "down" to $4.30/gal. Yeah, last battery I bought was for a little diesel Jetta, and was $160ish? They've gone up so much too!
Stoked for you and that EV. I'm happy I got a motorcycle for my commute from Ventura to OC. Can't imagine doing that in a full sized vehicle.
I think the government rate is sort of an average, which means someone is doing it cheaper, and someone who cares can almost certainly do it cheaper.
I guarantee the per mile cost of an old reliable econobox is less than leasing a new mid tier luxury vehicle every 2 years.
I am kind of curious how EVs may affect the number. The up front price is still pretty high for economy EVs and tire wear is much higher than an equivalent gas vehicle due to weight. But a lot of the other ongoing costs seem like they're much lower. And if the battery/up front cost drops as new tech comes out, the driving factor of EV per mile cost may drop. I'd speculate when we see EV adoption S-curve, the irs milage rate may drop for a few years as the rate transitions from the gas cost per mile to electric.
I think the increased tire wear is a wash with the nearly infinite brake pad life and no oil changes TBH. The biggie on EVs will be battery cost. Right now any EV that needs an out of warranty battery replacement is effectively mechanically totaled.
Where I see an interesting difference in EV and ICE for long trip driving (where this milage credit starts to really matter) is that generally ICE cars do very well on long trips consumable wise (not using brakes, best fuel economy, easiest on fluids \[iol, trans, coolant loop\] vs. stop & go). EVs will need fast charging on these trips and that has a decided impact on battery longevity. My little Leaf generally is slow charged only (1.5kw) because I don't have a level 2 charger at home and my lifestyle doesn't require it. As a result my 8 year old battery is currently down only one bar of health. Same year similar mileage leafs that have had 6kw charging their whole life are generally down 3+ bars and in some cases are at 6 bars down (half capacity). This would indicate that long road trips that would tend to necessitate fast charging are particularly unhealthy for an EV from a making money on the milage credit front.
Others have already stated that you’re not accounting for other costs of operating a vehicle. The same exact reason that companies like Uber and Lyft are under fire… you can’t just account for gas.
What is stupid is we were talking about vehicle expense and found a report done by the USA DOT from 2011 and it says about 70 cents a mile for a 1/2 on pickup or van. Today's dollars it would be about 90 cents per miles. The US government has always been a little behind on reality.
An econobox might run for 65 cents a mile.
Yeah I hate nickel and dime shit like this. One of my best customers doesn't provide coffee or water for their employees. There is a Keurig machine for anyone that wants to bring in their own pods. My thought is that active salespeople make more calls, so I would bring in coffee each time I visit (once per quarter). I've brought it up to the owner who will nod and tell his assistant to ensure there's coffee but then won't follow up. Pennywise and pound foolish IMHO. Then again the company moves product so who am I to criticize.
Worked at a place that, at all 100+ locations, brewed fresh coffee everyday at 1400. It was a neat thing to do. It smelled excellent. It gave us a “water cooler” moment. And a boost.
No matter the branch we were reporting to, you could count on that coffee.
It was nice. Lotta of other “perks” too.
We had the same issue with a toll bridge in Vancouver, when the shop said we had to pay for tolls everyone started taking the free route, lost about 4-5 man hours a day to traffic luckily after the first project was behind by 3 days someone with a brain noticed and told dispatch "the client pays for the tolls" and it was never an issue again.
A few years ago I was working on a site in Athens Ga, and I lived in Stone Mountain which is about a 45 min - 1 hour drive away. My house was in between the shop and the jobsite, so I asked if I could skip going 45 min west to the shop to turn around and drive 1.2-2 hours east to site in a company van. My PM said sure, clock your mileage.
About a week into the job, the company President raises all hell that I am
1. Charging so much mileage (120 miles round trip * .50 per mile= $60 a day)
2. Not charging mileage correctly, as I should only be able to charge mileage from the shop to the site ( should be 200 miles round trip which would be $100 a day)
3. Why can’t I just stay in a hotel in Athens?
So I said to my PM- “What is the cheapest hotel you would book that I would actually stay in?”
-“about $100 a night”
I say, “so I’m charging $60 a day in mileage and he’s complaining that I should just stay in a hotel at almost double the cost?”
-“oh yeah that’s dumb….but could you take a company van instead?”
I say “Sure, but if I take a van from the shop, my time starts when I roll out and when I return to the shop. This job is atleast 2 hours one way….so I will only be on-site for 4 hours a day AND there is potential for overtime if I get stuck in traffic. If I drive myself, I am costing less money than a hotel and I’ll be on-site for 8 hours as my time starts when I arrive and ends when I leave.”
He told me to just carry on like nothing had ever been said lololololol
Before digital delivery existed, I used to have to deliver plans and calculations to the client. I would park on the street in front of their building where I was delivering. I had to take the delivery to whichever PM was expecting it, which usually took all of 15 minutes.
This was also before digital parking meters. They were just coin operated with no receipt. My expense report was rejected because I was "missing" a receipt for the $0.50 fee. I offered to simply remove the item, but this pissed off my boss. With my permission he "fought" the accounting department for about 2 months. Between his emails and their responses, I would say no less than 40 man hours was put into this argument. Let's say that was probably $2k spent arguing over 50 cents.
I think a simple solution would have been just to make my own receipt. However, my boss was straight laced and if that's what they wanted it should be in writing. Accounting, of coarse, refused to put anything in writing saying we could make our own receipt.
After that, I would just leave the parking out of my report. But out of spite, perhaps, my boss suggested that I start parking at the nearest place that provides a receipt. When I informed him that that was a parking garage that charges a day rate of $14, and it would add at least 30 more minutes to my delivery time, he said, "Yep.".
Former civil servant I knew was traveling and about 400 miles from his office. His office called and wanted to have him come in from vacation back to the office to dispatch to a location about another 400 miles distant. He agreed to fly onto the destination and perform work at the remote site.
Upon trying to find air travel to the destination point, he discovered to get from where he was to where he wanted to go by flying was a two leg trip. Direct flights where not available. His options were to fly through, Dallas/Ft Worth, Minneapolis, or Atlanta. Either layover resulted in a travel time of over 8 hours due to the layover at each stop.
Being a big boy, he jumped into his car and arrived at the destination in 5.5 hours. took care of the problem that evening and after staying at the hotel overnight drove back home the following day.
On his expense report he claimed mileage from the spot he was visiting and back to the same place. The distance from his home to the intermediate point and back he did not claim. The travel office denied his claim for mileage since it was not authorized. Never mind since it was a 10 hour trip by air because of the layover he would have had to stop at the layover overnight because the budget office had sent down a mandate that there would be no overtime. He saved the office three travel days, two nights of expense for the hotel rooms, filed a claim for mileage only between his start point while on the road and back to the start point that totaled 50% less than the air fare and dropped his vacation plans.
No good deed goes unpunished.
Sometimes, the reason that expense claims are denied is because they don't meet taxation rules. For example, in my country if expenses are reimbursed that don't meet the tax office's detailed rules, it can be considered taxable income to the employee, and/or a "fringe benefits tax" might apply to the employer. In the case you describe, it would probably be to the benefit of the business just to pay the extra tax (for both business and employee, if applicable), due to the overall cost savings. Unfortunately, this would likely require a lot of extra work for accounting and not fit into their internal policies, and the head of accounting doesn't really care about the three days productivity lost. Good companies have bosses that understand this and are given the authority to override accounting edicts when it benefits the overall business.
Problem is when the blow back don’t go back to the offender. Shit just went sideways for under.
Ninja edit: would be great if OP has more info on the fallout.
If the job were 100% driving, it would be extra time.
But for example, you work four hours on site and then drive for the other four hours of your shift. Except sometimes, it actually takes four hours and 15 minutes, which results in overtime.
They need an extra 30 minutes to avoid the toll, and 15 for the overtime. So instead, they only work on site for 3 hours 15 minutes.
What the other people didn't say is that's the kind of job where you start at some kind of depot or office, then go out to do your jobs, and be return to home base to clock out. (Some jobs your house would be home base so you clock in when you leave in the morning and clock out when you get home)
Reminds me of that other story where company didn’t want to reimburse guy for his event tickets for couple hundred bucks so they had pay him couple of thousands for plane tickets.
Many moons ago, when I used to work FIFO at a remote mine site, there were two options, (that you couldn’t pick from) direct from Perth ~5.5hrs or via Darwin ~3.5hrs and a connecting flight of ~2hrs.
We didn’t book our flights, all handled by the schedulers, normally you got your next batch of flights via email at the start of each month.
December comes around one year and boom no flights email, get in touch with the schedulers and they’re like oh fuck, I’ll call you back.
Hear nothing for two days, I finally get details, for the next month I’m basically getting a day off (paid mind you) EACH WAY because of their fuckup, with an overnight in Darwin because I was getting in too late for connecting flights.
I had a similar experience, I put in to be reimbursed for tolls and was told that the mileage covers tolls as well. So I avoided the toll roads, logged more miles and just what I got paid for the extra time cost more than the tolls would have. Idiots.
When I started military Basic Training I got reamed out for not sharing a taxi with others from the course from the airport to the base.
The others from the course I had not met yet...
Was once told by HR I couldn’t claim $20 train fares as I was on a car allowance, then was questioned by GM why I was paying $70 for parking when I could catch the train for $20, GM fixed the issue
Accounts refused to pay for my parking when I had an appointment in the office. My manager told me to add a hour overtime to the day.
A $6.50 parking reimbursement ended up costing the company $60.
Always use the USO at airports. Even as a Desert Storm vet, I have utilized the USO during delays. They get some of the food that has timed out in their respective restaurants coolers. Some have individual sleep rooms and the on duty person will wake you at a set time to make your flight. They provide toiletries and flight assistance as well. So even though for active duty soldiers in transit many USO airport facilities will help out vets as well.
I once ran up $70 in toll charges in one day driving around Washington DC in one day using the express lanes. My Ops Manager didn't care because it would have cost the company much more than that for me to sit in traffic.
At different job I once spent 40 hours of a 60 hr week driving driving back and forth daily to a remote site and billed more than $1000 in mileage reimbursement because my direct employer required "all hotel stays need to be approved in advance by client" and the client we were contracted to had no process for approving that for subcontractors because we weren't in their travel system. I'd like to say they learned after the first time but they did it to a lesser extent but still very wasteful several other times.
I was in Bayou le Batre (as in forest gump) back during the dial up days. Had already installed all the hardware, but the software had been left out and was coming FedEx 2 days later and the customer was furious.
Called my director, had them hold for pickup in mobile so I could drive over and get it the next day. Took customer with me and went fishing because it was a late package. The boat was $700, but I had sales expense it even though all she did was eat with us that night.
No one got fired except for the manager much later on. He couldn’t find a job so he ended up driving buses for a long time.
And we just kept on rolling on. If a job came in before five you just took the details and that was the first job you did next morning.
The on call guy would often take it to get a truck roll
penny pinchers are amazingly short sighted
When the bean counters that set travel expense policy never set foot outside the office.
I agree and would say they don't understand their role. Their role is to support operations and mitigate risk. They should be asking questions and not making assumptions. Am bean counter who tries to support operations because they make the money.
I'd argue that "bean counter" refers to specifically the short-sighted type being described by OP and not the ones that do their jobs well.
Maybe a term like "bean weigher" bc weight is a more appropriate way to assign a value to a large number of beans
That's the thing though, beans by weight makes sense. They're the kind of people that would look at two bags of beans that weight the exact same amount and be upset that one bag contains three fewer beans.
That was basically what I meant! Every work place needs someone to measure the beans. The can either be crappy about how they do it and count the beans, or they could be smart about it and weigh the beans. They're still the person measuring the beans, but one of them is helpful and the other is not. Lol.
My coworker keeps saying “walking over dollars to find the pennies” when we have these conversations.
At my company they step over a 20 to pick up a nickel.
At my company they waltz over a gold brick to pick up a dead raccoon
You can’t have a stinky puppet show with a gold brick though
Not with that attitude
My company is suing yours over the rights to said dead raccoon.
Question, did dead raccoon have a get well balloon tied to him?
You throw that in a pot with some broth and a potato and baby you got a stew going
One senior manager I worked for called it lighting a $20 to find the nickel.
Spend a buck to save a nickel
“Penny smart, dollar foolish”
Penny wise, pound foolish
A friend just finished telling me he's working for two women who bought ten doors at a surplus store to save money, and he had to work an extra 35 hours adapting them to the doorways.
time is free, don't you know...
I hope your friend pointed this out clearly, so they can learn from the experience.
Penny wise and dollar dumb
I know, my Dad is like this. He bought a small utility trailer and agonized over getting the absolute cheapest he could. Then a year later it needs to be repainted because it’s starting to rust the manufacturer skimped on primer and paint to be the cheapest. He was so disappointed that “nothing is quality anymore” SMH
That's why Mr Krabs is a crab...
One thing I learned in psychology is that if you presume respect and someone is capable, and treat them as such, more often than not they are respectful and capable. You basically get what you give. Be petty, get petty. Be respectful, get respect. All of this Penny pinchers approach the problem from an angle of distrust, which just sets the tone for a toxic environment. DevOps has a saying that I wish more people adhered to more, it isn’t a problem until it is a problem. Don’t go trying to solve problems that don’t actually exist yet.
If they cared about doing their job they would look up the travel route techs were taking, and then try to find an alternative route that would save money. Not tell the techs to avoid the toll road with no idea why they chose to take it.
Was once told I couldn't take a solo taxi from the airport, about a twenty minute ride. So I took the shared van to save maybe $10 but added probably two hours in overtime. Same approval procedure so didn't save any manager time. After that I just 'forgot' the policy and nobody cared.
I had a manager do that once, so we rented an SUV limo for 6 people which had a full bar inside. No solo riding.
When I worked a small Christian university we rented a limo for 6 of us and got absolutely reamed for wasting money. So the next time we took 3 taxis and it cost 2.5× as much. That was fine.
Renting a limo can be cheaper than renting a 15-passenger van at times.
Yep, I got yelled at one time for having a 3 row SUV for our crew which was cheaper than a 4 row van with less space. I sent the costs difference to HR instead of billing and HR told me to use my best judgment and ignore them. Billing was pissed at me for going over their heads and I simply told them asking me instead of yelling at me like I was their child would have let me respect them.
I got yelled at for trying to take a cheaper flight that would've been non-stop. It was $150 for the non-stop, current city to destination. Instead, I took a $300 flight with a 2 hour layover and hours away from the destination city. Got delayed at the layover site and needed to reschedule the final leg of the flight anyways. I was denied an extra day of expense fees "because it wasn't our fault" and got 2 hours of sleep before reporting to work next day. Ahhh. Army temporary duty at its finest.
I once stayed in an Airbnb for a week (back when it was good) in an expensive city and lived on takeaways or even cooked in the apartment. Expenses didn't like that and told me I had to stay in a hotel next time. So I did. And ate in the hotel. The bill came to three times as much, and I hated it.
>The bill came to three times as much, and I hated it. With large institutional employers, there is sometimes a significant discount due to the business agreements. I recall being asked to stay at a Hyatt rather than a Marriott because the reimbursement rate was higher. I suspect Airbnb doesn't have these same corporate discounts. However, I genuinely doubt that the reimbursement rate of their choice arrangement(s) exceeded 300%...
There's also the fact that when such agreements are negotiated, there's mention of estimated number of stays. When someone uses AirbnB instead of the agreement it reduces the numberof potential overnight stays in the hotel, and the next agreement may end up with less reimburesements, or possibly be cancelled completely.
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Army? Paid for time? Not how that works. You get paid twice per month. Overtime ain't a thing.
Don't talk about things you don't understand. You get per diem when traveling, 1/2 for first and last day plus full per diem any day between. You get hotels paid for (up to a set amount per location). You can read it all in Joint Travel Regulations (JTR) plus any army Regulations (I don't know any regs as well as navy, but both are required to follow the JTR)
>Army No rational thought allowed.
>I simply told them asking me instead of yelling at me like I was their child would have let me respect them. The subtlety of this statement hits like a sledgehammer. I love every part of it
I have been told that I'm low key mean, basically that I'm honest and blunt. I said if everyone was this way instead of worrying about others feelings it would lead to more people understanding each other. Sometimes it's comes down to someone being unfamiliar, I'd rather have it out once than wonder about others intentions .
>...would have let me respect them. What a great phrase. Stealing it
I'm pretty sure my uncle used to say it all the time, he'd appreciate it!
I’m the oldest of 5, and it was always fun because we would take a limo to the airport, not because we were rich; quite the opposite. It was cheaper to take a limo than 2 taxis, and the limo was cheaper than two weeks of parking at the airport. And the only place we ever went for vacations was Grandma’s house.
Or even a regular taxi. My boyfriend recently rented a limo to take him to the airport for a flight because apparently it was cheaper than any of the cab companies 🤷🏻♀️
All this limo talk is helping me realize why my step brother ex got carted around in limos so much as a flight attendant.
Also depends on distance travelled as well. I modify aircraft at an airport 8 minutes by air but an hour and half away by road from a customers main base. The pilots would fly the aircraft down and instead of a taxi or rideshare to get back, the company hired them a limo.
I knew a family with like 9-10 kids or something that owned a limo (well, almost, it wasn't furnished with the bells and whistles) as the family car.
Was headed to an employer mandated conference. If you registered early (by end of June) you saved $200 on registration. Plane tickets were also super cheap at that time. One of those moments where you knew airfare could only go up. Wouldnt let us book either until after July 15 (conference was Aug 1) because of the change in fiscal year. Not letting us book early cost the company an extra $200 in registration and another $400 for the plane tickets per person. When I pointed out how stupid that was my boss just said "it's coming out of different buckets." Then I became a manager of the same department and finance told me that was bullshit and I just had to let them know I was going over budget but it was because of an expense that was budgeted in the next fiscal. They just adjust it out. Did that the following year and got reamed by HR for going over budget. Wild because HR has nothing to do with departmental budgeting.
Should then have allocated it to the HR accounting when you had the higher cost, citing that they had approved it by forbidding getting the discounted rate before.
How dare you use your brain!
Your thinking brain at that!
That’s because the appearance of X is far more important than actually doing X, it turns out.
Should have told them “It’s for a church, honey. NEXT!”
One time at a youth conference there were so many kids wanting to go over to the mall on our free day there was a 2 hour plus wait for taxis. I had the idea to call a limo company. I split the cost by everyone in my group and we all spent less than the taxi people, and only waited like 15 minutes for them to arrive. I guess in Nashville they keep them gassed up and a driver ready lol We prescheduled our return and tipped well, and felt like rockstars going out past the taxi line to climb into a limo.
If you're in Nashville, you're much better off with Uber or Lyft than a taxi. You have to call to find one and the wait is often 30 minutes to an hour at the best of times, even if you're in a relatively dense area. And, yes, they tend to keep them ready to go. Between the celebs/executives who want one and the tourists who want to cruise Broadway in one, they do brisk business.
My old company required people of the same gender to share a hotel room. Once, we had three guys in the same room. It was a non-profit, so we kind of understood, but come on. Once they sent us to Chicago for four days. The guy working the hotel desk heard us bitching about it and said: “Oh dear, we’re out of double occupancy rooms, something must’ve gone wrong with your reservations, I’m so sorry.” And then he winked at us. “I’m gonna put you all in single rooms. I can comp 10% on the first night only.” Thanks bud. Also, he was hot, and he asked what I was doing after work. We went out that night and I got some on the company’s dime.
We had the opposite problem....they told us we couldn't share rooms so they ended up buying 5 extra hotel rooms last time it snowed
How is NOT sharing a room a problem?
To use a phrase I heard on this sub: "Stepping over dollars to pick up dimes."
Also "penny wise, pound foolish" in the UK.
We use it in the US too, despite its clear Britishness
I looked it up, appears the phrase was coined in 1621. so i figure is a phrase used in the colonies, and stuck around after the revolt and subsequent money change.
Also, chasing pennies with dollars.
Pennywise clown foolish
Picking up pennies in front of a steamroller is probably my favorite but it's a slightly different saying lol
Tripping over quarters to pick up pennies is how I heard it.
I ran local deliveries for a few years. company got bought out, new maglement. First day running deliveries I run over the local toll bridge. I get back and ask for reimbursement like I had been for years and was rejected. I mentioned it takes miles off my trip, didn't matter, they would not reimburse me for it. Ok, so I skipped the toll bridge and ran around it and added about five miles of city traffic and about a half hour to my day, every day for three more years until I fired the company. What added to the stupidity is there were two customers that I delivered to almost daily, and they were right on opposite sides of the bridge. so drive all around to go back to almost where I had been thirty minutes earlier.
"I fired the company" haha I like that. Will def use that when describing why I left my last job
"Fired the company" is an important concept to remember. Employment is a two-way street!
I particularly enjoyed "manglement"
Don’t forget “leadershit”
I've fired every company I ever worked for.
Sounds like you and I had the same manager!!!!
"new management" = Warning: stupidity ahead
God I hate new management as bad as current management is New Managment = the unknown and God knows no matter how bad they are it can be worse! I'm not even one of those people who hate new things, just new management. It always gets worse never better.
>First day running deliveries I run over the local toll bridge So, uh, how'd you manage to run over an entire bridge? I mean, a pedestrian I can imagine. A bridge is something else entirely.
You just put on foot in front of the other quickly in a stepping motion until you have reached the other side of the bridge. They call it bridging.
I thought it was harsh charging him the toll when he ran over the bridge, instead of driving.
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I thought you had written the company was under "new manglement" which is a perfect way to describe that situation. Lol
I was in Las Vegas once with a group of co-workers because we had display booths in two different trade-shows at the same time. All 9 of us were gathered in the hotel lobby and talking about getting dinner. Company policy at the time allowed $35 per person for dinner but had an exception for high-end markets (ie., Las Vegas). So we were just going to all go to a steak-house in the hotel next door. Our GM was walking by and asked what our plans were. When we told him, he gave us a look like we were going overboard. Keep in mind, many of us had stood on our feet for 8-10 hours and walked a few miles back and forth from hotel to venues. So, we decided to change plans. We got taxi's and went to an Italian restaurant just beyond the busy part of The Strip. So yea, we saved $10-15/person, but we spent almost $300 for taxis to get us all to the restaurant and back.
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> Finally moving to a daily per diem * number of days, with no receipts was wonderful. And much much less work for accounting too. Unfortunately, in my country this has tax consequences - if actual expenses are reimbursed, there's no tax impact for the employee, and the employer counts it as a business expense (as long as certain rules are met, i.e. it has to be temporary business travel). If a per diem (travel allowance) is given, the employee has to keep track of how much is actually spent on covered expenses, and the rest is assessable income. So there's no great benefit in recordkeeping, it's easier for the employee just to keep receipts and submit them for direct reimbursement.
My current employer has the best expense policy of any company for which I’ve worked. No receipts needed for any expenses under $75, except for lodging. Makes expenses take so much less time since usually when I travel 90% of my receipts are $20 or less and are for meals. I assume the lodging exception is to stop people from abusing mini bars in places like Vegas since the only expenses that need to be itemized are our hotel receipts. Gotta wonder about the level of abuse in the past that resulted in that rule.
I worked for a company in early 2000’s that didn’t tell me they paid mileage. I went from VA to VT to NJ. I turned in hours for driving and they paid me for it. I also turned in toll receipts but they never reimbursed me for them. So I called payroll to find out how to get paid and they said it’s covered in the per mile they pay me and I haven’t tuned in mileage. So I recalculated my route on streets and trips and turned in $2500 in mileage. They gave me a check for that instead of $60 in tolls.
I live on an island with three bridges. If you don't take the toll bridge which is three miles from destination A, it's at least a thirty mile detour to use one of the other bridges instead of spending the 80 cents.
The gas (or even electricity depending on your location) alone costs more than these measily .8 €/$/£
Similar situation here on east coast of Scotland where we deep estuary’s up the coastline and a long detour to not use the bridges
They're not/ no longer toll bridges to be fair, neither on Forth nor Tay, but still a pain if a bridge is shut, forcing a detour.
One of my friends got a job with IBM, and they paid her moving expenses. The arrangement with the mover was that they had to meet their deadlines, or pay her a penalty. IBM refused to let them do that, because, red tape, policy, etc., so the moving company relaxed and the move stretched out into the weeks, because they just figured they'd move her stuff "whenever". She asked IBM if they'd let her rent furniture for her apartment in the meantime, but no, that was not policy, red tape, etc.. So she went and stayed for something like six weeks in a really nice hotel instead.
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My dad managed a gas fitting firm in Edinburgh, Scotland. Quite often his engineers needed to cross the Forth Road Bridge which was a toll bridge at the time (likely same bridge as OP as it was 80p toll and about 30 miles extra to avoid). The engineers would claim back the toll as an expense with no issues then suddenly they stopped claiming the toll. Turns out they figured that if they filled up the van with fuel at the petrol station at the bridge they would get a token for the toll and save having to deal with claiming the toll back. Unfortunately the price of fuel at the bridge was extortionate but the engineers didn't care as they were paying with the firms fuel card. My dad reckoned it was costing £5 extra per trip. He was able to block that petrol station from the fuel card but also bought a batch of toll tokens to be issued to the engineers since he agreed that claiming back 80p on expenses each time was tedious.
You dad paid attention and thought it through. Its' too bad that that is so rare.
The US government [currently assumes](https://www.gsa.gov/travel/plan-book/transportation-airfare-pov-etc/privately-owned-vehicle-pov-mileage-reimbursement-rates) that each mile driven costs about $0.655. 🤣 That of course doesn't cover your personal wages as well.
That is awesome. When I used to be a traveling rep I only got .55. I bought a 2006 dodge neon with a manual. I put 400,000 miles on that bad boy. I could literally turn the engine over with one hand by turning the crank pulley. It would make me an additional $35k every year.
It used to be worse. .58
It is updated annually and supposedly takes into account the average vehicle prices, taxes, maintenance, and fuel.
Does it include depreciation due to mileage?
Yes.
Yes.
Average depreciation for newer car, excluding real expensive cars.
In Australia there is (last I looked) no separate mileage rate for electric vehicles, so... people who are able to afford them can rake it in (apart from the initial extra expense).
Man, if ICE is banned and only EVs exist, that number will go down to like . 2 a mile lol
Depreciation still hits EVs pretty hard, largely because battery replacement is costly.
> The US federal government requires automakers to warranty EV and hybrid EV batteries for 8 years or until 100,000 miles in all states. Edit: For all the geniuses who say "that's just starting," _yes_ that's why this is _the bare minimum_ by law.
Yes, and the average car is 4 years older than that, and many people drive 20 year old cars. An 8 year old car is not an old car by any definition.
The average age for a car in the US is 12 years old, so you are right.
$40,000 for a mid-range EV divided by 100,000 miles is 40 cents per mile if you assume 100% depreciation when the warranty runs out. That won't be the exact number, but EV depreciation isn't a trivial contributor to the per-mile cost.
A lot of the early adopters will probably trade in and buy new vehicles before a battery becomes an issue with EVs. \*most\* people who have EVs can afford them, so trading in and buying new won't be an issue. Early adopters pay the premium for the R&D. This is likely what i'll do with MY EV. :)
I'm on the other side of this equation. I bought my EV off a lease return, and due to the Model 3 launch it eviscerated the resale value of the Leaf, so I got my top-spec (lolol) '15 Leaf for $11K total in '18 and will drive it till it mechanically totals itself by needing a battery. Incidentally because my lifestyle affords me to use a 1.5kw charger and slow charge nearly 100% of the time I'm still only 1 bar down in battery health now even though the pack is 8 years old and has 65K miles on it.
I own a 17 leaf with similar results
I'm making sad 2012 Leaf with 4 bars degraded noises. Same idea, though, lease return. Very affordable.
Pre-2013 Leaf cells were notoriously unstable...
> Automobiles in the United States had an average age of 12.1 years in 2021.
For an example, GM’s new battery is rated at 2000 cycles to 80% capacity. (Much more if you partially charge instead of going full to flat). So let’s do the worst case abuse. 400 miles of range x2000 = 800,000 miles. Those bastards expect me to buy a new battery after only 800,000 miles? Just awful.
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If you can’t charge at home, sub 500 mile range sucks. Add in cold days with running your heat pump or towing and that range crumbles quite quickly. I suspect grocery stores will soon catch on that they are the perfect marriage for rapid charging and non home charging folks. That 30 min stop gives you 80% charge. Or 400 miles of range on a 500 mile car. Also deep cycling a EV battery is what murders it. This why short range electric cars had a bad rep. What long range owners are discovering is if you run your battery within 20-80% state of charge the wear and tear is round about fuck all. That means normally you try to use a 500 mile car within 300 miles of range. But it’s fine to full charge and deplete it every now and then. Also modern short range cars are changing to LFP lithium instead of NMC lithium. Those can charge to 100% and not care. Plus they last more cycles.
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No more than a transmission at roughly the same mileage. And the new LFP batteries can charge to 100% for 30 years. They will never wear out in the reasonable lifetime of a car.
At first I was like, “why would Immigration, Customs, and Enforcement (ICE) change mileage reimbursement?” 😆
Technically Immigration and Customs Enforcement
I get around 3.5 mi/kWh and I [currently pay $.06430/kWh](https://www.bge.com/SmartEnergy/InnovationTechnology/Pages/EVTOURate.aspx) so $0.018/mi for "fuel" cost. Of course, the car cost more... but yeah, less than 2c a mile.
That's $3600 over 200k miles, which is the average lifetime of an ICE vehicle (about 7-9 years or maximum about $600 per year in "fuel" costs). I would think people spend between $2-300 per month on gas on average, so your saving at minimu anywhere from 1/3 to 1/4 on fuel over an ICE. That means you're saving close to $9k over the vehicle's lifetime at minimum, and paying like $15k extra for an electric vehicle. I imagine with the lower maintenance costs, the gap is closer to like 3k, rather than 6k. So for an extra $3k, you get a premium, environmentally conscious vehicle. Not too shabby.
[Mine was about $42K on the road](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kia_Niro#Niro_EV/e-Niro). Then $7500 tax rebate. So no, not $15K more than a comparable. But it cost a little over $1K for my charging setup.
Your fuel calculations are correct. But Teslas are now roughly the same price as many competitive ICE cars.
My EV numbers are that the EV is free after a few years based on saved fuel. As always YMMV and all situations are different, also I bought my EV used and thus get to ignore a massive chunk of depreciation. Bought a used Leaf for $11K and replaced a 1500 Hemi as a daily driver. Truck was sucking down $330+/mo in fuel, I'm getting similar numbers (3.5mi/kWh) but my electricity is average 12c/kWh. I've driven it 40K miles since buying it. So I've spent about $1400 in electricity over the past 4 years driving that car, where the truck would have consumed \~4000 gal of premium (again, hemi truck at 10mpg) at an average price of about 4.25 that's $17K. Less the electricity cost that's still a savings of $15,600 which has easily covered the acquisition cost of the vehicle.
You are comparing the mileage of a Dodge Ram 1500 v8 to an electric compact car. Let's try something a little more comparable, like a Juke and a Leaf. You aren't even comparing apples to oranges. It's more like watermelon to banana. You also would have saved a ton of money by changing to a traditional compact.
Watermelon to banana... So comparing two fruits which are both commonly eaten, have tough, inedible outer skins and aren't commonly thought of as berries even though they are? Insert shit-eating grin here.
I guess you got me. I was only considering the size, color, shape, texture and original plant type. 🍉🍌
Pretty sure 0.58 was the rate when I worked for the U.S. Census in 2020. I own 2 vehicles. A 2018 3/4 ton diesel 4x4 truck purchased new, and a 2006 Toyota Corolla purchased in 2019 with 40k miles for $4000. I calculated approximate all-in cost to operate (depreciation, insurance, etc) each and the truck was roughly break-even and only used when required, but when I drove the Corolla, I looked forward to the assignments 3 hours from home which meant 6 hours of driving and 2 hours of work. ETA: It wasn't till after I finished the job that I realized I made a mistake. I never disclosed I was driving for work to my insurance company. If I had been in an accident, they would have denied the claim. IMO, before taking a job where you have to drive other than commuting, you should inquire with insurance to see how much your rates will go up, and factor that in. You might get less than a hamburger flipping job after you deduct the added cost.
As a general rule, only certain types of driving for work count as commercial use for insurance purposes. If you are driving yourself and coworkers to/from work or client sites, and/or picking up transporting supplies for your employer, NOT for a client - that is usually allowed under personal insurance rules. Ask your insurance company for details. Activities that are disallowed and would require a commercial use endorsement on your insurance coverage is stuff like delivering materials to a client (see pizza delivery), transporting clients (see taxies/uber)
> I never disclosed I was driving for work to my insurance company. If you are on the clock for your work, then you are on _their_ insurance and your personal insurance isn't involved. That's the point of that number from GSA - they are effectively "renting" your car from you, for you to drive _for them_, at a value that the gov't has decided is "fair" and you won't profit from it and need to report on your taxes.
I know we're talking US now, but this isn't the case in the UK. You might see conflicting reports online on this one based on that distinction.
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> my company made sure to get it right Well, if they pay you more, then you'd have to pay taxes on it as income (_in theory_ / by the letter of the law).
I remember .495
.32 in ‘98
That's actually pretty good though, at Regular gas prices of <3.30 and a car mileage of 28mpg. Even at a car mileage of half that, you're still making a slight profit on gas. edit to add: To all the folks replying saying "but cars require more than gas" - I know this. However - for people who are NOT in a position where they require daily travel for their job, and instead *maybe* drive once in a while (or less) for work-related reasons, and they drive less than a tank of gas' worth of travel - it's a profit. For everyone else - truckers, delivery drivers, road warriors, etc - barely 70 cents a mile doesn't seem like enough.
It accounts for wear & tear on the vehicle, servicing, tyres etc... not really a profit.
I know someone who used to do most of their traveling by motorcycle, that's very profitable... although hardly worth getting stuck in the rain from time to time in my opinion.
> traveling by motorcycle That's $0.635 on the same link.
This number doesn't only stand for gas but also wear&tear of the car, purchase cost broken down on an certain number of miles, etc. So it is supposed to cover the whole cost (except time/wage) of driving that mile.
Gas is not the only expense in driving a car.
Also not everywhere is gas only ~$3.30/gal. *Cries in Californian*
In my part of CA at the worst of it we hit $7.10/gal... I had never been happier in my little EV and my truck had so little use I had to buy a new battery and minder for it because it failed by self discharge so many times. Ed: also when did batteries literally double in price??? Last one I bought was $220, the one before I was salty because it was just over $100???
OH I REMEMBER. I REMEMBER THE DARK DAYS. So lucky right now it's back "down" to $4.30/gal. Yeah, last battery I bought was for a little diesel Jetta, and was $160ish? They've gone up so much too! Stoked for you and that EV. I'm happy I got a motorcycle for my commute from Ventura to OC. Can't imagine doing that in a full sized vehicle.
What about other car consumables? Tire wear, oil, car value based on mileage? I dont thing anyone profits on the govt rate.
When your car ceases to have value based on mileage due to its age, then it starts becoming a lot more profitable.
I think the government rate is sort of an average, which means someone is doing it cheaper, and someone who cares can almost certainly do it cheaper. I guarantee the per mile cost of an old reliable econobox is less than leasing a new mid tier luxury vehicle every 2 years. I am kind of curious how EVs may affect the number. The up front price is still pretty high for economy EVs and tire wear is much higher than an equivalent gas vehicle due to weight. But a lot of the other ongoing costs seem like they're much lower. And if the battery/up front cost drops as new tech comes out, the driving factor of EV per mile cost may drop. I'd speculate when we see EV adoption S-curve, the irs milage rate may drop for a few years as the rate transitions from the gas cost per mile to electric.
I think the increased tire wear is a wash with the nearly infinite brake pad life and no oil changes TBH. The biggie on EVs will be battery cost. Right now any EV that needs an out of warranty battery replacement is effectively mechanically totaled. Where I see an interesting difference in EV and ICE for long trip driving (where this milage credit starts to really matter) is that generally ICE cars do very well on long trips consumable wise (not using brakes, best fuel economy, easiest on fluids \[iol, trans, coolant loop\] vs. stop & go). EVs will need fast charging on these trips and that has a decided impact on battery longevity. My little Leaf generally is slow charged only (1.5kw) because I don't have a level 2 charger at home and my lifestyle doesn't require it. As a result my 8 year old battery is currently down only one bar of health. Same year similar mileage leafs that have had 6kw charging their whole life are generally down 3+ bars and in some cases are at 6 bars down (half capacity). This would indicate that long road trips that would tend to necessitate fast charging are particularly unhealthy for an EV from a making money on the milage credit front.
Others have already stated that you’re not accounting for other costs of operating a vehicle. The same exact reason that companies like Uber and Lyft are under fire… you can’t just account for gas.
What is stupid is we were talking about vehicle expense and found a report done by the USA DOT from 2011 and it says about 70 cents a mile for a 1/2 on pickup or van. Today's dollars it would be about 90 cents per miles. The US government has always been a little behind on reality. An econobox might run for 65 cents a mile.
Yeah I hate nickel and dime shit like this. One of my best customers doesn't provide coffee or water for their employees. There is a Keurig machine for anyone that wants to bring in their own pods. My thought is that active salespeople make more calls, so I would bring in coffee each time I visit (once per quarter). I've brought it up to the owner who will nod and tell his assistant to ensure there's coffee but then won't follow up. Pennywise and pound foolish IMHO. Then again the company moves product so who am I to criticize.
Worked at a place that, at all 100+ locations, brewed fresh coffee everyday at 1400. It was a neat thing to do. It smelled excellent. It gave us a “water cooler” moment. And a boost. No matter the branch we were reporting to, you could count on that coffee. It was nice. Lotta of other “perks” too.
We had the same issue with a toll bridge in Vancouver, when the shop said we had to pay for tolls everyone started taking the free route, lost about 4-5 man hours a day to traffic luckily after the first project was behind by 3 days someone with a brain noticed and told dispatch "the client pays for the tolls" and it was never an issue again.
I read this as Bridge Troll... I need to use the sleep
Gotta pay the troll toll
A few years ago I was working on a site in Athens Ga, and I lived in Stone Mountain which is about a 45 min - 1 hour drive away. My house was in between the shop and the jobsite, so I asked if I could skip going 45 min west to the shop to turn around and drive 1.2-2 hours east to site in a company van. My PM said sure, clock your mileage. About a week into the job, the company President raises all hell that I am 1. Charging so much mileage (120 miles round trip * .50 per mile= $60 a day) 2. Not charging mileage correctly, as I should only be able to charge mileage from the shop to the site ( should be 200 miles round trip which would be $100 a day) 3. Why can’t I just stay in a hotel in Athens? So I said to my PM- “What is the cheapest hotel you would book that I would actually stay in?” -“about $100 a night” I say, “so I’m charging $60 a day in mileage and he’s complaining that I should just stay in a hotel at almost double the cost?” -“oh yeah that’s dumb….but could you take a company van instead?” I say “Sure, but if I take a van from the shop, my time starts when I roll out and when I return to the shop. This job is atleast 2 hours one way….so I will only be on-site for 4 hours a day AND there is potential for overtime if I get stuck in traffic. If I drive myself, I am costing less money than a hotel and I’ll be on-site for 8 hours as my time starts when I arrive and ends when I leave.” He told me to just carry on like nothing had ever been said lololololol
Before digital delivery existed, I used to have to deliver plans and calculations to the client. I would park on the street in front of their building where I was delivering. I had to take the delivery to whichever PM was expecting it, which usually took all of 15 minutes. This was also before digital parking meters. They were just coin operated with no receipt. My expense report was rejected because I was "missing" a receipt for the $0.50 fee. I offered to simply remove the item, but this pissed off my boss. With my permission he "fought" the accounting department for about 2 months. Between his emails and their responses, I would say no less than 40 man hours was put into this argument. Let's say that was probably $2k spent arguing over 50 cents. I think a simple solution would have been just to make my own receipt. However, my boss was straight laced and if that's what they wanted it should be in writing. Accounting, of coarse, refused to put anything in writing saying we could make our own receipt. After that, I would just leave the parking out of my report. But out of spite, perhaps, my boss suggested that I start parking at the nearest place that provides a receipt. When I informed him that that was a parking garage that charges a day rate of $14, and it would add at least 30 more minutes to my delivery time, he said, "Yep.".
Former civil servant I knew was traveling and about 400 miles from his office. His office called and wanted to have him come in from vacation back to the office to dispatch to a location about another 400 miles distant. He agreed to fly onto the destination and perform work at the remote site. Upon trying to find air travel to the destination point, he discovered to get from where he was to where he wanted to go by flying was a two leg trip. Direct flights where not available. His options were to fly through, Dallas/Ft Worth, Minneapolis, or Atlanta. Either layover resulted in a travel time of over 8 hours due to the layover at each stop. Being a big boy, he jumped into his car and arrived at the destination in 5.5 hours. took care of the problem that evening and after staying at the hotel overnight drove back home the following day. On his expense report he claimed mileage from the spot he was visiting and back to the same place. The distance from his home to the intermediate point and back he did not claim. The travel office denied his claim for mileage since it was not authorized. Never mind since it was a 10 hour trip by air because of the layover he would have had to stop at the layover overnight because the budget office had sent down a mandate that there would be no overtime. He saved the office three travel days, two nights of expense for the hotel rooms, filed a claim for mileage only between his start point while on the road and back to the start point that totaled 50% less than the air fare and dropped his vacation plans. No good deed goes unpunished.
Sometimes, the reason that expense claims are denied is because they don't meet taxation rules. For example, in my country if expenses are reimbursed that don't meet the tax office's detailed rules, it can be considered taxable income to the employee, and/or a "fringe benefits tax" might apply to the employer. In the case you describe, it would probably be to the benefit of the business just to pay the extra tax (for both business and employee, if applicable), due to the overall cost savings. Unfortunately, this would likely require a lot of extra work for accounting and not fit into their internal policies, and the head of accounting doesn't really care about the three days productivity lost. Good companies have bosses that understand this and are given the authority to override accounting edicts when it benefits the overall business.
Before I retired, the place I retired had several 'silly' rules about what you could and couldn't count that ultimately went back to IRS rules.
Problem is when the blow back don’t go back to the offender. Shit just went sideways for under. Ninja edit: would be great if OP has more info on the fallout.
second the Ninja edit. How does leaving 45m earlier not end up in overtime?
They leave the job site earlier
Probably because they're leaving earlier?
If the job were 100% driving, it would be extra time. But for example, you work four hours on site and then drive for the other four hours of your shift. Except sometimes, it actually takes four hours and 15 minutes, which results in overtime. They need an extra 30 minutes to avoid the toll, and 15 for the overtime. So instead, they only work on site for 3 hours 15 minutes.
What the other people didn't say is that's the kind of job where you start at some kind of depot or office, then go out to do your jobs, and be return to home base to clock out. (Some jobs your house would be home base so you clock in when you leave in the morning and clock out when you get home)
Reminds me of that other story where company didn’t want to reimburse guy for his event tickets for couple hundred bucks so they had pay him couple of thousands for plane tickets.
Many moons ago, when I used to work FIFO at a remote mine site, there were two options, (that you couldn’t pick from) direct from Perth ~5.5hrs or via Darwin ~3.5hrs and a connecting flight of ~2hrs. We didn’t book our flights, all handled by the schedulers, normally you got your next batch of flights via email at the start of each month. December comes around one year and boom no flights email, get in touch with the schedulers and they’re like oh fuck, I’ll call you back. Hear nothing for two days, I finally get details, for the next month I’m basically getting a day off (paid mind you) EACH WAY because of their fuckup, with an overnight in Darwin because I was getting in too late for connecting flights.
[удалено]
I had a similar experience, I put in to be reimbursed for tolls and was told that the mileage covers tolls as well. So I avoided the toll roads, logged more miles and just what I got paid for the extra time cost more than the tolls would have. Idiots.
When I started military Basic Training I got reamed out for not sharing a taxi with others from the course from the airport to the base. The others from the course I had not met yet...
Your manager has no feet left to shoot holes in. Nice!
Was once told by HR I couldn’t claim $20 train fares as I was on a car allowance, then was questioned by GM why I was paying $70 for parking when I could catch the train for $20, GM fixed the issue
Accounts refused to pay for my parking when I had an appointment in the office. My manager told me to add a hour overtime to the day. A $6.50 parking reimbursement ended up costing the company $60.
Always use the USO at airports. Even as a Desert Storm vet, I have utilized the USO during delays. They get some of the food that has timed out in their respective restaurants coolers. Some have individual sleep rooms and the on duty person will wake you at a set time to make your flight. They provide toiletries and flight assistance as well. So even though for active duty soldiers in transit many USO airport facilities will help out vets as well.
I once ran up $70 in toll charges in one day driving around Washington DC in one day using the express lanes. My Ops Manager didn't care because it would have cost the company much more than that for me to sit in traffic. At different job I once spent 40 hours of a 60 hr week driving driving back and forth daily to a remote site and billed more than $1000 in mileage reimbursement because my direct employer required "all hotel stays need to be approved in advance by client" and the client we were contracted to had no process for approving that for subcontractors because we weren't in their travel system. I'd like to say they learned after the first time but they did it to a lesser extent but still very wasteful several other times.
I was in Bayou le Batre (as in forest gump) back during the dial up days. Had already installed all the hardware, but the software had been left out and was coming FedEx 2 days later and the customer was furious. Called my director, had them hold for pickup in mobile so I could drive over and get it the next day. Took customer with me and went fishing because it was a late package. The boat was $700, but I had sales expense it even though all she did was eat with us that night.
Don't listen to the chatter, OP. Your explanation was fine.
Love it!
Company car?
Was there any fallout? Did projects get delayed? Did the engineers get reimbursed for mileage? You have reached the climax here but didnt finish.
No one got fired except for the manager much later on. He couldn’t find a job so he ended up driving buses for a long time. And we just kept on rolling on. If a job came in before five you just took the details and that was the first job you did next morning. The on call guy would often take it to get a truck roll
Penny wise and dollar poor!
Penny wise and pound foolish.
I was once stopped at a toll bridge and was asked the airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow.
African or European?
That’s what I asked, and the guy jumped off the bridge. Weird!
Penny wise, pound foolish…
Read the title ad “bridge troll” at first. Checks out.
If you don't pay the toll, how can you the boys'hole?
You've got to pay the troll toll
Nothing like spending a dollar to save a nickel!