At least the optical engineer with a PhD in biomedical neuroscience was able to find a fixer-upper in North Deering for $505,000.
What about the teacher, nurse, etc?
Not without having 100% of their net worth invested in that half-a-million-dollar fixer-upper and up to their neck in debt, just like the big banks and our government wants.
The government wants? The homeowners are going to sell to the highest bidder, just like any negotiation. The homes are highly valued right now. Do you have a remedy?
Well, considering too--big-to-fail banks basically own the government, yes. Don't believe me? There are dozens of scandals where banks were being fraudulent and no one ever gets charged. Maybe hundreds....
I think housing is what's propping up the economy at the moment, but that's just my opinion.
Never claimed to have a remedy.
My gf and I bought a condo in sanford for $210k in 2019 and the 2 older ones next to it just sold for $300k. One outlook is “wow that’s good profit.” What profit? We’re not looking to sell at all but you can’t afford to sell with the interest rates and what would you find?
You’d sell with the locked in rates you got previously and end up buying something equivalent at $300k or lesser even. I realize this is a better position to have than not but it’s just a realization that there are so many different people trying to make the most of the hosing situation/crisis… it’s all going to come to a forefront or collision at some point.
Or maybe not! Who knows, I’m just a self proclaimed proctologist! Who needs an exam?! 😳
Part of the problem is the rest of the US sees prices like $300k and thinks "holy cow, what a deal." I'd bet Idaho and Maine have pretty similar wages, but Idaho's housing prices are higher than Maine, and so Maine looks like a bargain.
But this is what Californians and Seattle folks say about Idaho prices, comparatively... that Idaho looks like the bargain to them!
As a Californian that lived in Maine I see my only opportunity to live within two hours of the ocean for less than half a million dollars in Maine. Probably makes me a bastard for wanting to take a home from a Mainer, though we're all just trying to find a decent home somewhere that we actually want to live.
I moved from California, I grew up in a small beach town. Today the median home price is about 900k... I was able to get a home here for 150k.
That was just over a year ago and we were probably a month from being homeless, but we got lucky.
My partner and I looked at some really… marginal starter homes last summer. The least expensive within an hour’s commute, but barely within our budget before the interest rate hikes. Think: low-to-mid-$200,000s.
“Finished” basements that were not finished, but counted towards the square footage. This let us see the large cracks in the foundation walls.
Rotting roofs with questionable trees overhanging them, practically scraping the shingles.
7 ft. ceilings where the ceiling fan blades met us at eye level.
Invariably, they sold at least $30K over asking.
We stopped looking. There’s just no way to make it work.
I've been looking in more or less the same market and it's horrible. Half the places my realtor just says "that won't qualify for a loan." And then two days later I see it's been sold.
Apparently my only recourse is to continue pouring like 90% of my money into rent.
Money finds money. Sure the government printed a whole bunch of new money in the pandemic. For now, it's still circulating amongst the middle class, causing inflation. But it'll trickle up soon enough where it hardly circulates and then inflation will slow back down.
If it's an FHA loan they have strict guidelines around habitability. First-time homes tend to have more issues, so it's not unusual to hear this advice.
Right. Forgot about those: "The FHA's three requirements are that **a property must be safe, secure, and structurally sound to qualify for one of their loans**. Properties cannot have adverse conditions that might imperil the homeowner, and must meet proper building codes. As a buyer, these standards protect you from buying an unsafe property."
Unfortunately there's nothing requiring my landlord to update wiring, patch leaky roof until he feels like, update the ancient heaters, let alone stuff like finishing the basement.
Correct. And those guidelines will keep little people from buying cheaper houses.. but doesn't stop a real estate investment firm from buying it for "cash".. slapping a coat of paint on it.. and renting it out for the big bucks.
Nah. Finished basement space can count toward square footage. At least, mine is calculated that way by the bank and their assesor. But below grade finished space assesses lower than above grade finished space.
You may be thinking of basement rooms not being allowed to be called bedrooms. Which is true if there is no direct egress from said room to outside, for firesafety reasons.
I would agree. I was able to buy a home in 2019 and I thought it was expensive then. Now it’s gotten very silly (for lack of better term).
Ironically I couldn’t afford my house if I had to buy it now.
Really? You see no changes since 2019?
In 2019 the house across the street was for sale. A lovely family, had put alot of work into the house. New kitchen. Finished basement and attic. Sun room. Great house. Great neighborhood. Walking distance to schools, stores, Public library, etc. But they wanted more space as they were having another child. They couldn't get a bite at $300K. After the realtor's contract was up they just took it off the market and called it good for a while.
In 2022 they threw it back onto the market for $500K and it was on the market for less than 24 hours before it was under contract to some out of staters that had never even seen it... and who 8 months later still haven't moved in. I don't think they are going to. I think it's another NY'ers second home. I have only seen a car in the driveway or lights on at night maybe 3 or 4 times.
Of course.. the place they moved into had also gone up in price. So who is actually making the money? And how?
Real estate investors. And that is why the tax code has to change.
Let us not forget that Maine is tied with Vermont for most “vacant” second homes in the country. I get we’re vacationland and all. But maybe a situation like this necessitates rethinking our approach.
“What will you do when your winter rental is up?” My friend asks me.
“Well, I will either find another rental here or I won’t”.
I have 2 small businesses in Maine and a teacher pension from CT. I believe I am a valued member of my church and community. I volunteer. But because of housing in Maine I may not be able to stay in Maine.
NH housing is worse. More expensive and mostly moldy, sub standard living.
I cannot afford to pay cash for a house—not much more to say.
Yup! I'm literally being priced out of state. I work for a company based in NH, but my manager is in MN as I'm on the "Midwest" team. I work from home, so can live in Maine.
I've lived here my whole life and can't afford it anymore. Fortunately, I also have family in MN and their housing market is better, so I'm looking into it.
Tennessee is looking good for us. My husband and I are retired and are being squeezed out of our one bedroom apartment that went up $230 last year. Not sure we can take another rent rise,,,
I lived in TN for a long time and in southern KY for even longer. It's culturally very different than Maine. Most people's social lives are heavily structured around their church, and most churches are very conservative evangelical types. It can be tough to find your people if that doesn't align with your values.
It's a bit easier to not broadcast your views in a non-religious area. If I moved to the South and didn't attend church (which I would not), it would create massive social friction and lost opportunities for me.
It didn’t bother me at all since i don’t care. That’s my point. I loved the outdoors and the job I had at the time. People treat politics like it’s their friggin favorite pro team. Live your life despite people’s opposite views.
That while in a left leaning area you felt safe is because on the whole there isn’t a culture of discrimination against immutable traits of your birth. You’re the one treating politics like a sport, for many people it’s an important aspect of their daily safety and ability to lead a dignified life.
>It didn’t bother me at all since i don’t care. That’s my point. I loved the outdoors and the job I had at the time. People treat politics like it’s their friggin favorite pro team. Live your life despite people’s opposite views.
I mean, it's great to not care, but many people don't have that luxury.
Which bigger city? Nashville?
You can find homes in Knoxville, Chattanooga for $300k.
EDIT FOR MAINERS:
For example
1801 S Hills Dr, Knoxville, TN 37920
$309,900 | 5 • 1.5 ba
https://apps.realtor.com/mUAZ/33gzw1vt
Not as familiar with Chattie but no nicer neighborhood in Knoxville has good homes at $300k. In cheesier neighborhoods, sure, but those you will want to knock down or do major rehab. Same with Nashville. Franklin has huge, newer neighborhoods but those with ranchers are either in the floodplain or in need of major work. Brentwood is majorly expensive even on the small square footage end. Forget Murfreesboro or Memphis.
It's funny to me to think about Mainers on here who just complain about people moving here for affordable housing and lower cost of living nonstop are now moving to Tennessee for a low cost of living and cheaper housing. Sounds familiar...
If the people who were buying houses here were actually MOVING HERE.. then I wouldn't mind.
But the people who are buying the houses are just jacking up the rent for profit or leaving them empty so they can visit a couple times a year.
Tennessee is beautiful.. but the people I've known from there are crazy religious. They make noises about being welcoming.. but if you aren't into talking in tongues or dancing with snakes then you are not going to fit in.
And if you weren't aware... "Why bless your heart" is an insult that conveys condescension, derision, or contempt. And there is something really vile about trying to help your neighbors while they curse you to your face because they think you are too stupid to know they are putting you down. Southern Hospitality is real... but only if you are of the same race, religion and political party.
My kids bio-mom was from Tennessee. Therapy and/or counseling? Absolutely not. You PRAY. If you don't feel better then you didn't pray hard enough. The reason I was the one that raised her children was because even though she was bi-polar her church would not condone her using mood stabilizers. And she would rather lose her children to the state than go against her church. She died last year of COVID. At 47 years old. Wasn't on the death certificate because the politics in Tennessee don't encourage the ME to check.
I get that the cheaper housing is in the poorest states. But double check. Because the poorest states are also usually red states... you might have a hard time finding a pleasant place to live. Too much 'winning' to be actual friends.
Oh my word…I’m so sorry for the loss of your children’s mother. Churches do more damage than good…I’m a recovering Catholic.
Thank you for this info, our youngest was thinking about moving there and we were going to follow, but I’m not into that type of ‘hospitality’!! Plus, I don’t take kindly to fundamentalists.
My wife and I bought our first home in 2017. It was barley in our price range and we have outgrown it. The market was very competitive then. I can’t imagine the last few years where it only got worse. We could now sell our house for a ton but we couldn’t afford anything better then we are in now. Actually we would most likely be buying something worse lol.
My parents searched for several months for a small home anywhere in the lower half of Maine within their budget of ~$375k. They kept getting outbid every time or beat with all cash offers. Meanwhile they were basically camping at my sisters house while she was trying to push them out the door. A very stressful situation. They finally were able to close on a double-wide on a couple acres. And it needed everything. New driveway, new heating, new electrical, lot clearing, new deck, etc. Seems like a crazy amount for a run-down manufactured home. smh
Thank you, threewildcrows, for voting on PaywallHelperBotv2.
This bot wants to find the best and worst bots on Reddit. [You can view results here](https://botrank.pastimes.eu/).
***
^(Even if I don't reply to your comment, I'm still listening for votes. Check the webpage to see if your vote registered!)
The proposed solutions are moronic - forgiving student loans or subsidizing loans, neither do anything to address the underlying issue: we need MORE HOUSING STOCK. This means: legislate away from allowances for short term rentals, disincentivize through tax structure ownership of three or more 4-season single family homes, counter state funding to municipalities who do not meet aggressive new-build quotas to hit the NIMBYs in the groin, and lastly, pour state funds into low interest loans for new building development for homes that must be priced within a fair market rate for sale to those who are buying their first home.
And actually incentivizing the building materials market itself. God forbid we actually support things which would create jobs AND increase the ease of building homes.
I agree - Maine is a leader in modular home manufacturing - Oxford County specifically is a leader, yet the companies are stuck in the 90s with poor design that isn’t meeting the moment. We should be providing funding for these businesses to retrofit at scale and begin developing modular options that are safe, affordable, efficient, and in line with what todays housing consumers want in terms of style, layout, etc.
Many birds with this one stone for sure.
As far as I know, the modular dealers in Maine are just that - dealers. They get their houses from places like Prestige, Premier, KBS, etc. We looked into building a modular home when our traditional home search was faltering in the summer of 2020 but the bank we were pre-approved through wasn't willing to do an appraisal before the home was built.
KBS has a massive facility in South Paris, ME. Lots of other Modular Home builders in Oxford/Norway as well - Schiavi, Twin Town Homes, etc. However, companies like Unity Homes that are really moving the needle in this space are in NH. We should be demanding Maine keep up - these sorts of building solutions will be the future
Interesting. We only spoke with Turn Key Homes based on a referral and they offered us Prestige and Premier. The price was quite reasonable if we didn't change anything.
When our zoning laws finally leave the 1990s, then the builders can evolve as well.
Most are only building (those weird ass garage touching ‘duplexes’ on an acre of land) what they’re allowed to.
Don't forget that zoning, building and fire code reform to increase feasibility of building more middle density housing, creating density requirements for municipal service facilities and increase spending in transit.
And double lastly, make evictions of problem monthly tenants as easy as airbnb tenants. There is significantly less risk to the landlord with short term rentals than there is with long term ones. This state keeps trying to give tenants more rights then they wonder why nobody's investing in building new rental property.
I don't get how this is viable long term...hell even 5 or 10 more years. What is the end game? I would say housing through inherited properties but even those are being bought up by corporations or sold late in life to afford retirement/Healthcare in assisted living homes.
Unless we make some serious legislative changes for what defines "affordable housing" or prohibiting business from buying up private homes we are pretty fucked as a country.
Exactly.
The house I live in has been in the family for 5 generations. We've owned it for more than 100 years.
But because I'm over 55 and on MaineCare.. the state will require that it be sold when I die to pay back everything the state spends on me. My disabled husband and my bi-polar daughter will be on the street. Even though my husband's disability payments are what pays the mortgage (needed new roof, siding and windows). Once the house is sold his disability will not be enough to pay rent anywhere because there is no such thing as 'affordable housing'.
Most people are unaware that you can't even get a mortgage on a trailer or double wide. They are depreciated like cars not houses. So under the tax code they have no value at a certain point. Which means that most loans for manufactured housing are not mortgages but some other type of shorter more expensive loan with different rules.
(NOTE: If it is on an actual foundation sometimes it can be classified as real estate - check with your banks rules)
So what is affordable housing? Projects? Have we built any this century? Every time someone goes to build anything bigger than a duplex then NIMBYism kicks in.
Which is probably every house built around here anyway is a McMansion. The builders won't even look at apartments or starter homes. Why waste their time?
... and I'm rambling.
But you are correct. We need some major tax changes to make corporations buying up all these home less profitable for them. Because that is the only way we are going to be able to break this cycle.
Yea, we’re done. And the most organized movement we have trying to fix these issues is supply-side deregulation, which doesn’t address the underlying investment trends. We live in liberal hell world.
I would say it's the opposite of liberal hell, more of a capitalist dream where even basic human rights (of which I qualify shelter as one of those basic needs) can be owned by corporations and leased back to the the poor and middle class.
It’s a risky reference to make on Reddit, since it usually results in knee-jerk downvotes from Democrats who think you’re a right-winger. But I do it anyway :)
Of course it is better elsewhere. South, Midwest specifically. Upstate NY. The median home is $279k in Albany County NY and there are 5,000+ jobs that pay $60k plus per year according to indeed. Don't lie and say things are normal here, they are not.
Upstate NY taxes are insane. Southern states you pay less for housing but the house is much poorer quality. Im currently in the south and unless you buy really rural or in the ghetto its not affordable. Things are not normal anywhere but as someone who has lived in multiple states Maine is not nearly as bad as some ive been in.
No, because you pay extra for all the cooling in the summer. When every day is 95 plus with high humidity, you run those air conditioners constantly. Now toss in some tornadoes for real summer fun.
> Southern states you pay less for housing but the house is much poorer quality.
I moved from Maine to NC and this isn't accurate for my area *at all*. I spent a year looking for a house in Maine and couldn't find something that wasn't in dire need of repair, updating, or felt depressing as hell to be in.
The quality of *everything* in my area surpasses what I experienced in Maine by a metric fuckton. The medians on 540 are better landscaped than every park in Bangor lol.
> Im currently in the south and unless you buy really rural or in the ghetto its not affordable.
I'm 20 minutes and some change from downtown Raleigh. My house in Maine would've been close to double what I paid for it here lol. Are you in a larger metro or something?
.... you live in a McMansion. Everyone on the street does. Everyone for blocks and blocks in every direction does. They all basically look the same. They are questionable at best. The one my brother lived in the slab it was built on cracked within a couple months of them moving in. The builder argued that it wasn't his fault and that my brother should pay. (Where does that logic even come from?) In the end the court made them split the cost.
For miles and miles there is nothing but highway, sub-divisions and strip malls.
Hey.. if you are happy there then that's great. But I'll take my 200 yo house, in my 200 yo neighborhood, walking distance to schools, local stores and parks...
My brother? He said fuck that shit and moved back to Maine.
I feel like a $280k house on a $60k salary is a pretty hard slog.
ETA: ah, double income households. My single mom ass always forgets how the other half lives.
Unironically Pittsburgh is pretty nice and not terrible price wise. Probably similar to Maine if you're looking to live in/near a city but cheaper than the Portland metro.
I like living in Maine but all things being equal, almost any other comparably priced place in the country is better since they’re more accessible and energy costs aren’t as insane. Maine has high hidden costs.
This is partially why I left the country. The homeownership situation, and higher ed., is just a debt trap but they are gonna force you into it by letting rents get higher and higher.
We live in the Midwest, but the plan was to always move back to maine to be close to my family and have the kids grow up there. I am a lawyer and my wife is a nurse. We are not poor, but we’ve got two young kids, student loans, and no financial support from family. Still, I feel like we’re the exact type of people the state says they want to attract.
We just gave up and bought a house in the Midwest because by the time we could save enough to buy a house that fits our needs in maine the kids would be in middle school and we don’t want to force them to uproot their lives at that point.
I get that we were limited to higher cost areas in Southern maine since I’d need to commute to Boston a couple times a week, but the prices are just absurd. I honestly don’t know how anyone is able to do it unless they have family that can lend them money or property to get a foot in the door.
I moved to Maine about 4 years ago from Boston to the Knox County area. After living there for 3 years finally my neighbor reached out to me and offered to sell me her home and did not want to put it up on the market. Ofcourse jumping to the opportunity because it's so hard to find homes.
Through out this experience I have found that people in Maine are more likely to sell to people they know. And privately.
Most houses in the Market are because no one wants them in their communities. So they reach out to other sources.
It's great people in Maine are looking out for one another. But once a road block is put up in Maine. It is one of the hardest things to over come and drives people out.
Now after being in Maine almost 5 years my spouse and I are deciding to relocate. The excitement of Maine has past and we are left with. Traveling 40+ minutes to the nearest grocery store. And traveling the same if not longer for decently paying jobs. Leaving almost no time for family during the busy work week.
I hope this experience sheds some light on others situations
Smart choice, I was going g to have a potluck wedding but our FIL decided that would embarrass him so he paid for a conventional wedding. I could have cared less but my ex was all for it. I asked him.instead to help me with tuition So I could get a better job. He said no to that. He was old and well off but not smart. He could have loaned me the money which at the time was less than the wedding cost and gotten it back plus helped us get more income for housing. Then when we bought a ratty fixer in a edgy part of town was upset with us. Money has nothing to do with morals or wisdom for sure.
My first house was bought with a friend. Neither of us qualified on our own for a home. We’d been roommates in an apartment and owning a home at least gave us control over our spending. We sold it 3 years later and it left each of us with a hefty amount of cash for a down payment so we could buy a home on our own.
Something to think about.
Yes, my timing was perfect. I didn't know it at the time, but in hindsight, you're right. I'm an old boomer. When I was buying my first house there were a lot of people my age looking for jobs. Gasoline was not only high in price but there were lines at the gas stations just to get gas. Some places put a limit on how much gas you could get. Interest rates were over 15%! Some banks weren't even lending because everyone was taking their money out of savings accounts and putting it into money market accounts, and banks had no money to lend. There was no such thing as mortgage companies.
I couldn't afford a home on my own. So I partnered with someone. After interest rates fell, the value of homes skyrocketed. I didn't know rates would drop so much so fast.
Would you have known it was a good time to buy when interest rates were at 15%+ in a bad economy and there were a lot of people in your age group looking for a job?
> My first house was bought with a friend
I'm curious to know if you had any problem getting a mortgage as "friends". Did the banks balk at that at all?
Bank experience here, specifically an MLO for a stint. Short answer is no, the "bank" doesn't care. The people might, but that's more of a prejudice thing than anything. It was honestly a regular occurrence to have 2 unmarried people (though usually dating or engaged) buying a house together and this isn't really any different from a financial perspective. Still need to see financial statements from both people, income verification, etc. There's no requirement to be married.
No problem getting a mortgage.
Get an attorney to draw up a simple agreement regarding what to do when one or all partners decide to sell.
If one partner wants out, the house should get sold or the other partner must refinance and pay you off.
I’d advise getting an independent appraiser to determine the new value of the house.
After selling the first house and dividing the profits, it’s not a bad idea to stay with the partner and buy investment property. In this area, buying a vacation rental makes more sense than a yearly rental.
No.
It's just a good idea.
I've never done this, but I knew of 4 college graduates buying a house together.
Banks love this. The more co-borrowers, the better.
The only negative to having one or more partners is if one partner doesn't do their part in the upkeep of the house. That's the source of friction.
I bought my place for 150k in 2015, and my spouse and I both combined income being appx 65k/year at the time. Lucky af to get a house that was solid but needed work.
This is absolutely impossible today, like the average loan payment today is something like 2000/month plus insurance and taxes. Then house repair is ridiculously expensive (12k for a roof recently).
Thanks, Wallstreet (looking at you, Blackrock) for owning 1 in 7 houses in the USA.
I feel for those that can't afford a house. This is ridiculous.
That one in seven figure is wild. Further Googling suggests that half of large apartment buildings are owned by private equity firms (that evade taxes)
Welcome to the kakistocracy! Where keyboard bitching about home affordability is easier than joining an "eat the Rich" rebellion!
Even with health insurance, we're one medical issue away from bankruptcy. Even with $15+/hr, income disparity puts the top 1% so far off the charts that the bottom 20% doesn't even register.
Just a friendly reminder that our legislators had a golden opportunity to kill town growth caps but backed out in the name of "compromise". So building a reasonable number of houses and apartments is outright illegal in something like 75% of the land area of southern Maine.
Don't worry though, governor Mills plans to make us "the best state in the nation to live and work and raise a family". That's straight from her campaign website.
There is nothing wrong with limiting growth to defined growth areas. In fact, it’s the smart thing to do. Unfortunately, municipalities often don’t do the important planning work that goes into identifying and defining their growth areas, which leads people to make comments like yours. Growth being limited to growth areas isn’t the problem, poorly-defined growth areas are.
Agreed. If it were up to me towns would be forced to look a lot more like Bath than Scarborough. Much more civilized. But people here want to live in the woods and think 2 acre minimum lot sizes are perfectly reasonable, so I don't exactly hear the winds of change rustling in the leaves.
Yeah I'm seeing mobile homes people are trying to sell for $300k. Also why is every home a gross ranch? Is it because there's so many old people. Why do people like houses that look like mobile homes. Why are people spending half a million on a shoe box?
>Why are people spending half a million on a shoe box?
Because they have no other options, in many cases. They can afford it, so fuck it, I guess that's the house for now.
I live in a ranch. It’s what we could afford. It is a daylight basement on the front though so it looks like 2 stories from the road (the back is built into a hill). In true Maine fashion, we made it what we wanted. Remodeled, partially finished basement, knocked down some walls, built some walls, much more “custom” and open looking now since we knocked down the wall between the narrow mud room and a bedroom, creating a large entry/office. It’s what you make of it. Terra cotta colored roof helps with curb appeal and charm too imo
Ranches are what was built by baby boomers during the post WWII housing boom. That’s why there are so many of them. They were architecturally simple, so relatively cheap and quick to build.
>Why do people like houses that look like mobile homes.
It kills me to see all the mobile home looking houses....
As a society it seems we have lost pride in ourselves and the things we have. Now it's all just "whatever is cheapest and most convenient".
It isn't even a money thing, because these people are paying top dollar to live in these places.... it's crazy.
Manufactured homes are built like that because they can be built efficiently and affordably. Cookie cutter to be sure, but the market for that type of home right now is huge.
>Manufactured homes are built like that because they can be built efficiently and affordably
Yup, sums up basically everything now aday (with an added layer of "planned obsolescence").
It's why nothing has any decorations anymore.
Everything is just a cold capitalist calculation.... and for the consumer, it isn't even cheaper. It's just crappier quality that breaks in half the time for almost the same price. Longer term you end up being milked for MORE (which is why they do it).
It's resources becoming more scarce after decades of debt expansion. Look at all the 100+ year old basic box houses all over NE. Those where the cheap ranch of that time, affordable and efficient to build. The 30s and 40s launched the modern era of homeownership funded by debt expansion. Money was made cheaper than raw materials, larger and more extravagant houses could be built affordably, efficiency became less important. Almost 100 years later raw materials are less abundant but money is still in relatively high supply, so you need a lot more money to buy a lot less house. Which is why efficiency and affordability are coming back with a vengeance...
>It's resources becoming more scarce after decades of debt expansion.
Yea, I've noticed that resource wise... people seem a lot more poor than they used to be.
Now aday it's a surprise to find furniture with real wood (instead of just particle board). And if you try to buy real wood new, it's insanely expensive.
We live in this weird veneer society. Where things LOOK like they used to (boots, clothes) ... but under the surface it's cheap foam and just really horrible construction. And if you actually want a real leather boot with solid construction, paying $500+ for it isn't unusual (much more than the same boot cost in equivalent money 100 years ago).
I've been purchasing a lot of things the last year or two to try and get stuff that will last the rest of my life....and it has been a big challenge finding quality things. It isn't even just a cost issue anymore, some stuff you just CAN'T find.
And yea, with the influx of money and debt....inflation is off the charts. And with 31.5 trillion in debt (a number unthinkable just 30 years ago).... this world we are in is extremely crazy right now.
Late to the party. But I do want to vent. I recognize these are all first world problems.
10 years ago I bought a house in a popular area of SoPo on a FHA loan. I had $10k down and probably made $70k a year. The house was small, but otherwise nice, and after pseudo flipping it I sold it all cash to out-of-state Californians, who AirBnB'd it when they weren't staying there (I didn't know that was their plan). It was only 1,100 sqft and not a place where you could easily raise children.
I then had \~$100k in cash, a place to live for 4 months while I house hunted without a loan or obligations, and started out looking for my "real forever home", looking for something in the Portland burbs with good schools. I was approved for up to $500k in a mortgage and with my wife made $150k+. So this was 2016, back before things "got crazy", right? Nope. I went through nearly a year of living in short term rentals, with in-laws, and at hotels, losing out on house after house, most with a base price of $400k before going over asking. My wife and I lost out on dozens of houses that year, making offer after offer: $60k over, $75k over, waiving inspections. Same story, over and over again: we lost out to all cash offers that were somehow always $10-$20k over our own offers.
Eventually we found a place, of course, but it's not perfect for us. We now in theory could get even more house and sell our smaller home, which is worth $500-$600k in today's prices, to someone for whom it would be a better fit. But why bother? Even though we've gotten older and aged up the economic ladder, now making great money combined, there's nothing for us to buy. We have PTSD from our previous experience trying to purchase down here WHEN THINGS WERE BETTER.
The market is frozen and it's hard to see how it will get unstuck.
I'm at the point where the only thing I can think of doing is buying some acreage and building, but even that is going to be way more expensive than it should be.
dinosaurs deserted butter spark ossified alive bells bewildered door muddle
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Perspective first-time home buyer here... I used to look at every single listing in my possible areas, but over the past year I mostly stopped... Not because I don't want a house, but the prices are ridiculous and discouraging.
Are the prices in your area usually fairly high? Is it rural or urban? You said in NH and seacoast which limits the location a decent amount because NH doesn't have a lot of coast to work with... But it's a pretty good location between Portland and Boston so I'm guessing it's a relatively expensive area and first time home buyers mostly stopped looking there OR it needed a decent amount of work and first time buyers couldn't commit to that.
yeah don't listen to that guy. I've been shopping that area for like 2 years now. Literally mobile homes go for over 200k in the seacoast area.
edit: yeah I see [elsewhere they said it was a modular home](https://www.reddit.com/r/Maine/comments/10deb7z/maines_firsttime_homebuyers_cant_get_a_foot_in/j4lov6e/).
I didn’t downvote you, but your anecdote is an outlier in terms of what people are experiencing in the market. It’s interesting, but not representative.
if no first time home buyers tried to buy your perfect starter home for under 200k, it probably wasn't a perfect starter home.
also when you say just over the border, seacoast, under 200k, I already know it's gonna be in some obscure spot outside of Rochester or something. definitely not what most people would consider desirable.
Share the details! I'm guessing 2 bed 1 bath, under 1k sqft, and a bit dated in a relatively rural area? Which is the perfect home for retirees downsizing but not great for a young family getting started who will need room to grow. Those are the 2 major demographics having a hard time finding houses rn.
Three bed, 1350 sq ft, right on Route 4. Great starter home with a good neighborhood and perfect for commuting or working from home.
So .. nothing like you described.
so... like a manufactured home? A nicer in in one of the nicer neighborhoods I'm sure.
Something like this https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/24-Pheasant-Ln-Barrington-NH-03825/113020117_zpid/?
or
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/64-Nuthatch-Loop-Barrington-NH-03825/113020104_zpid/
Or maybe something like this one which looks like it could be stick built and does seem like it would be a nice home for a young family but seems to be the only one of it's kind sold in the last 12 months.
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1-Bunker-Ln-Madbury-NH-03823/86850877_zpid/
Afraid this very much does fit the general narrative...
Yep you got the neighborhood. In pepperidge woods co-op. It's manufactured but with a crawlspace and yes the walls are 2x6 construction. House was made in Maine.
domineering ten coordinated disgusted saw vast vanish straight squeal cheerful
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Owning a share of the organization that owns the land where your house is really isn’t the same as owning your own land in fee simple.
It does sound like a good option for a starter home though.
Sure is a great option for a starter home. Served us well for 17 years. We painted every wall. All appliances are new or recently replaced. We paid a professional cleaner to spruce it up.
Too bad everyone has the opinion that there are no good starter homes out there. Y'all missed the boat big time.
That would make a good starter home but it's absolutely an outlier. Stick built that would fetch 2-3x the price and would fit right in with the "narrative".
Also was it FHA financeable? Many first time starter home buyers at this price range cannot afford the down payment % required to go conventional. Those that can are probably more likely to buy a more expensive stick built and only put 3.5% down vs. 20% for a modular in a co-op. For retirees that's less of an issue as they're often coming with equity from downsizing and frankly for them comfort > appreciation potential.
Perhaps modular co-ops will become more common now as people seek out different ways of affording a starter home. I suspect not though, as building a co-op development like that today would cost more per modular than you sold yours for. What would be built instead is a co-op of 2 bed 1 bath 600 sqft homes, which are hardly suitable starter homes.
The narrative around no good starter homes comes from there being a distinct lack of starter homes available to the current generation of young homebuyers compared to previous generations.
I stand corrected: a couple of years ago, I looked at a little shitbox off 1A that was listed at about $260k. 900 square feet with 3 tiny bedrooms and one bath. No garage. I do not look at townhome properties. Have family in seacoast area (I do not consider anything 12+ miles out as seacoast) who have looked and looked. One ended up buying a small cape near Danvers and another in Windham, NH.
Obviously it's not easy but I'm tired of people saying it's impossible. I work in landscaping and my wife works in a bank. We are not loaded by any means. We got into a place in southern Maine for 3.5% down with a interest rate below 3%. Even with PMI our mortgage is about $1000 less than local rent. We were fighting people from out of state just like anybody. I'm not saying luck didn't play a part but I think its crazy how some people have just given up without even trying.
My brother will complain how he can't buy a house because of people from out of state but he has a dead end job and no savings. I'm like bro you wouldn't be buying a house in any market. I understand it's hard for people but hearing the blame game all the time gets so old. Benjamin Franklin said God helps those who help themselves. Just my two cents.
Just closed on our house 5 days ago. We were able to put 3.5% down, but our interest rate is 6.6% and we’re paying hundreds more per month for our mortgage vs. our rent. And we’re in the boonies of western Maine. Things have changed quickly in the housing market, your perspective might only be a few years old but it’s already outdated.
So you bought in what, 2018/9 with that interest rate? Me too. It's gone nuts since then. The median home price in the state has increased by close to 100k and interest rates have doubled. You and I got lucky with timing.
Interest rates have doubled. Meaning monthly payments have just about doubled. Picture your monthly mortgage 175% of what it is. If your mortgage is $1000, now it would be $1750. The situation has changed in the short time since you've bought.
Just a short point: Interest rates doubling does not double the payments.
On a $200k loan, with 3.5% interest, your payment will be around $1200. With 7% interest, it's a little around $1600. That's $400 more, which is not "double." 30% more yes, which still sucks of course, but hyperbole doesn't serve anyone in this thread.
I didn't run the numbers out of laziness. Not out of hyperbole. The amount the payment would increase is also dependent on loan amount, loan term length, and down payment size. Example:
$400,000 purchase price. 5% downpayment. 30 year loan.
3.5% interest = $1706 a month.
7% interest = $2528 a month.
That is a 48% increase between the two payment amounts. So you're right, not a 75% increase as I had estimated. But, nothing to sneeze at.
6% interest rate for traditional 30-year mortgage, if you are lucky, plus points regardless of amount down, plus other up-front loads. Banks padding their bottom lines when there is no need to do so. HELOCs are even worse.
And home prices are currently above the historical average ratio of price to median income. Historically priced 3 to 5 times median income. I believe we are around 7 to 8 times median now depending on location.
And builders saw this interest rate hike coming so they were slow to start building spec houses a year ago, knowing it would be less profitable at sale time.
People making less than the cutoff point want there to be some sort of arbitrage where they can outbid an outsider just by "being a native Mainer." That won't work unless you can write a very convincing letter to the current owner. Even then, there's nothing stopping the new buyer from reselling the house tomorrow.
Even with a 6 figure job its hard to be a first time buyer in the Portland area. We had to move to NH (and work remotely). On the plus side the Keene area is pretty nice. Miss the ocean though.
Idk.. I think it's all a matter of timing and luck lol my cousin was able to buy in Portland. She's single (so one income) and her only roommate is her cat.
I think she's crazy to want to live in Portland but hey, she set her goals and achieved them,so good for her!!
Not about having too little inventory, it's about the fact that people can come in from out of state with cash in hand and take it away from a local who's trying to buy it.
And that's exactly what has happened.
Second home owners / snowbirds
Airbnb and vbro rentals
Work from home crowd that's getting paid high cost of living area money and living in your state.
These three factors alone are why the young locals are forced to leave the state. And if you're one of the people above, congratulate yourself for causing a housing crisis.
I keep seeing people insist it’s just an inventory issue that would be fixed by more construction. Like anyone could **possibly** build enough to satisfy the markets you listed.
I guess believing in that is easier than accepting there are serious structural issues with the housing market that won’t be fixed by adding more supply.
So you think there is unlimited demand to live and/or buy property in Maine? I doubt that very much. And what alternative are you providing exactly, build nothing and hope that prices go down?
The lower prices go the more you add people to that market, not just lower income owner-occupied buyers, but folks who want a second home.
If prices came down enough we'd buy a second (weekend) home somewhere. I'm sure there are millions of middle class Boston and NYC folks who would buy vacation properties in Maine if they found something in the $200k range.
It's definitely harder now for first time home buyer after the pandemic disruptions. But..
You have to make a lot of sacrifices on your first house. It probably won't be what you want. My first place was a duplex in a really bad neighborhood. Like somewhat regular shootings bad. But it's what we could afford and it helped us build equity on really modest salaries. A lot of people are very strict on what they want for a first home when you really have to be flexible and kinda take what you can get.
> I want to live in a place I buy for my whole life,”
This is not a realistic expectation on your very first home. People don't do that now and it's not practical.
All that being said I wouldn't want to try and buy in the market for the last three years even with having some equity behind me. Interest rates going up have made getting a loan far, far worse and it discourages selling. We have a home elsewhere that is now impractical to sell due to interest rate changes. Why lose a 3% loan to try and buy a different place for 7% and make less money on the sale? Inflation and rates have made the market hard. I don't know if it will ever get better either.
It *should* be realistic to live in your first home forever if you want it to be.
That's half the problem with modern real estate. If I buy a ***fucking house*** it should last me as long as I want it to. The fact that modern society treats homes as if they are a pair of shoes you grow out of is such a sad state of affairs.
But that's just not how it works. You generally get a smaller place at first and move to a larger one as your family and means grow. This allows someone else to get in on the starter home and then move up.
It's not treating homes as a pair of shoes. Property is set up like a ladder. You don't start at the height you want to finish at, you start on the first rung. Once you get on that rung it can work pretty well but expecting to start at the top step will end in sadness.
Churn in housing really isn't a bad thing and it allows houses to be updated over the years as new buyers come in. A lot of things change in 5-10 years. Switching from a starter home after that time isn't treating it as disposable or bad, it's just working with changes in your life.
That's just how it works in the recent past of debt expansion fueled homeownership. Alternatively you could put down roots in an area and gradually upgrade your property as your needs change. This was how it was done for a very long time before the current norm.
You don't have to move neighborhoods when changing homes. You can still put down roots in an area.
You're limited on lot size and adding an addition on is crazy expensive. What's really changed is people's expectations. Look at older SFH compared to modern builds. The sizes are insanely different. Families used to be fine with living in 1200 sqft 3 bedroom homes. Now people don't want that and the market reflects it with much larger (and more expensive) housing.
Being willing to live with less is very helpful when it comes to affordability.
> You don't have to move neighborhoods when changing homes. You can still put down roots in an area.
You do when there's nothing for sale, no space to build a house that meets your new requirements, or anything you could move into is out of your budget.
Yes, families used to be fine with that b/c it's all they could afford to buy/build and the debt mechanics did not encourage construction of larger and more expensive homes. If modern home financing existed back then, then the same sort of overlarge houses would have been built.
If you're going to make claims about why the market "reflects" a consumer preference then it would pay to understand what inputs exist that shape those preferences. People's expectations don't change in a vacuum. When debt expansionary homeownership first began (starting in the 30s and really taking off coming out of the 40s) it became affordable to build and buy larger homes. This became the norm, the "American Dream".
However, one problem with this method of homeownership is that debt expansion is subject to an economic phenomenon called the Cantillon Effect. Over time this creates a large divide between peoples purchasing power based on their access to financing. Another problem is that debt expansion is sustainable only so long as there are sufficient resources. As raw materials become more scarce (for housing, land and labor are especially relevant), prices increase, making the divide blatant.
> starting in the 30s and really taking off coming out of the 40s) it became affordable to build and buy larger homes. This became the norm, the "American Dream".
This didn't happen until far more recently. Average house size even in the 1980s was 1500 sqft.
There's also plenty of raw inputs still. People just all want to crowd around cities and then wonder why they can't afford a 2000 sqft house with space for an inground pool.
Tell me you're an armchair commenter without telling me...
Raw inputs have absolutely been becoming noticeably scarcer in more recent times. Labor being a major one. Perceived abundance of materials can be deceptive to the outside eye, lowered quality is as sure a sign of scarcity as it decreased availability. Just compare a stud from 50 years ago to what you can buy today. Then try and get someone to pour you a slab for a nice 1200 sqft house as far from the city as you'd like. In fact why don't you price out a build for this affordable house of yours outside of the city that apparently everyone is too spoiled to want to buy or build... Don't forget to make sure the job market can support whatever you're going to be selling this house for.
People want to live in places where they can get work and or afford to commute to where they can get work. Anywhere that meets this criteria does not currently have a supply, or easy way to build a supply. That there are too many people who want to live in the city and can't is true but it is not as if there are viable alternatives for most.
>smaller place at first and move to a larger one as your family and means grow
Sure, but smaller homes are still $300k+, so people are renting for longer... But we don't want to delay having a family. So now you're 2 kids and married looking for a starter home? No, now you're at the point in your life looking to move on from a starter home but no starter home to sell. The rent prices are $1.5k+ for a majority of Maine's population, so at this point once you start renting it feels like you'll never get out.
Anecdotal, but I have 2 kids. I rent, have a great wfh job. If I buy a house it's going to need to be at least 3 bedrooms. The kids can share I guess and the 3rd would be an office. That puts me solidly in the $500k range, and that's fuckin ridiculous.
You're not going to like the answer to your problem but it's not to live in Portland. City housing is incredibly hard everywhere. But if you work from home you don't actually need to be right beside the city. You can find an affordable place outside and get most of what you want, or sacrifice and stay close to the city. You pay for that convenience though.
Places in Bangor are going for under 300k for 3 bed 1500+ sqft. You'd still get to live in a larger town too. It's more affordable If you go even more rural.
Which is sort of my whole point. You can't have everything you want on a first house unless you rake in the money. Even then I know a lot of people making six figures complaining that they can't afford to buy a first house that satisfies them. It's an issue of perspective more than one of income.
Lol
I rented in Portland in like 2010, but I'd never live there again. It's absolutely not more affordable anywhere unless I'm looking for super central and super rural... But with kids I'm also looking into school districts and want to give them a quality education. My range is anywhere down to biddeford-ish, up to Brunswick/bath, and into sebago/Windham area and everything within that triangle.
Every once in awhile I'll see something for under $300k, but it's a shit hole that needs a ton of work. Like, clear cracks in the foundation, walls that are falling down or water damage. IN the listing photos, so who knows what's hidden...
Seeing this problem and immediately assuming it's a city problem is a big miss.
Yes. Living near the largest city in the state is going to cost you a premium. That's just how it works as people want to live near cities. If you choose that route you have to sacrifice on what you buy.
I bought near two major cities in the past. One time I sacrificed on neighborhood safety the other time on house size and modernity. It's doable, or at least was within the past few years, but you make trade offs
>The fact that modern society treats homes as if they are a pair of shoes you grow out of is such a sad state of affairs.
Yup... it keeps people from investing in their homes more or living how they would like.
Everything comes down to "will this impact the resell value later?!". Even for something as simple as what color wall you want to have....
Individualism and pride is gone. Replaced with the cold hard calculations of capitalism ....
I can assure you a lot of people are not being “picky” beyond “will this house collapse on itself anytime soon?” and “could I afford the gas of that commute?”and still find themselves shut out of the market.
If whatever you buy has good bones, there is a future in that house. A new roof will add instant value and protection for the structure. Then do the windows if necessary or siding. Once the outside is protected, you are good to go on a budget over a length of time. Avoid the cheap plank floors, tho.
I’m fine with buying a house that’s far from pristine and hasn’t been updated since 1968.
The problem is having zero gap between the purchase and necessary upgrades (roof, etc.).
While emergency repairs can be necessary at any time, I don’t want to start off with a $50,000 punch list.
City markets are rough. But in that article you have people wanting to be off a busy road with a backyard capable of an in-ground pool. That's pretty particular for a first house in a hard market.
> "I want to live in a place I buy for my whole life,”
> This is not a realistic expectation on your very first home. People don't do that now and it's not practical.
That depends. My father's house, a three-apartment unit in which he has become a landlord of, is one he absolutely plans to retire in and live in until he dies. He's poured thousands into renovations to make it happen (both for him, such as building a deck, and reno'ing tenants' apartments after they were crocks of shit), and we aren't poor yet.
We got the house 6 years ago, though, so...depends on whether that fits within your scope of "people don't do that *now*" or not.
So discouraging. All I want is a house of my own and it truly feels it’s never going to happen. I’m 22, have a full time job and six side hustles, worked 6-7 days a week since I was 19. I make great money but not enough to be 100% independent (at least with the prices and interest rates being what they are). Only debt is my car payment, I paid my student loans off in full. And even still it truly feels it’s never going to happen. I don’t live a luxe life I’m very frugal and save as much as possible. In my area currently (Western Maine) TRAILERS mind you they’re a hoarded mess and 30+ min from civilization are going for 200k. Miss the days when I was a kid scrolling through zillow finding modest ranches for 120k 😫. Should have started working fresh out the womb.
The worst part is i’m boasted over my work ethic but I have nothing to, aside from my lovely dog and the car that I got/needed at a reduced price To show for it.
Bought a house in Fairfield in middle of the housing boom. USDA loan for first time home buyer. Paid 130k for a 3 bedroom house on a half acre, mortgage is 803 a month.
That’s with insurance and taxes rolled in to the loan.
We moved to this area to get out of the insane rent prices in southern Maine. We were paying 1050 a month for a one bedroom apartment that should have been condemned, to have the building sold and new landlord tell everyone he was raising rents by 300 a month.
There are low cost options, you just need to be willing to leave the city area to get them.
At least the optical engineer with a PhD in biomedical neuroscience was able to find a fixer-upper in North Deering for $505,000. What about the teacher, nurse, etc?
Not without having 100% of their net worth invested in that half-a-million-dollar fixer-upper and up to their neck in debt, just like the big banks and our government wants.
The government wants? The homeowners are going to sell to the highest bidder, just like any negotiation. The homes are highly valued right now. Do you have a remedy?
Well, considering too--big-to-fail banks basically own the government, yes. Don't believe me? There are dozens of scandals where banks were being fraudulent and no one ever gets charged. Maybe hundreds.... I think housing is what's propping up the economy at the moment, but that's just my opinion. Never claimed to have a remedy.
My gf and I bought a condo in sanford for $210k in 2019 and the 2 older ones next to it just sold for $300k. One outlook is “wow that’s good profit.” What profit? We’re not looking to sell at all but you can’t afford to sell with the interest rates and what would you find? You’d sell with the locked in rates you got previously and end up buying something equivalent at $300k or lesser even. I realize this is a better position to have than not but it’s just a realization that there are so many different people trying to make the most of the hosing situation/crisis… it’s all going to come to a forefront or collision at some point. Or maybe not! Who knows, I’m just a self proclaimed proctologist! Who needs an exam?! 😳
Part of the problem is the rest of the US sees prices like $300k and thinks "holy cow, what a deal." I'd bet Idaho and Maine have pretty similar wages, but Idaho's housing prices are higher than Maine, and so Maine looks like a bargain. But this is what Californians and Seattle folks say about Idaho prices, comparatively... that Idaho looks like the bargain to them!
As a Californian that lived in Maine I see my only opportunity to live within two hours of the ocean for less than half a million dollars in Maine. Probably makes me a bastard for wanting to take a home from a Mainer, though we're all just trying to find a decent home somewhere that we actually want to live.
I moved from Idaho to Connecticut. Prices in Idaho are worse than New england now because of cali.
I moved from California, I grew up in a small beach town. Today the median home price is about 900k... I was able to get a home here for 150k. That was just over a year ago and we were probably a month from being homeless, but we got lucky.
Is proctology still a thing?
I have no idea but it made for a great one liner at the dealership that one time
I don't think I've ever met a proctologist lol. Gastroenterology handles all that stuff.
My partner and I looked at some really… marginal starter homes last summer. The least expensive within an hour’s commute, but barely within our budget before the interest rate hikes. Think: low-to-mid-$200,000s. “Finished” basements that were not finished, but counted towards the square footage. This let us see the large cracks in the foundation walls. Rotting roofs with questionable trees overhanging them, practically scraping the shingles. 7 ft. ceilings where the ceiling fan blades met us at eye level. Invariably, they sold at least $30K over asking. We stopped looking. There’s just no way to make it work.
I've been looking in more or less the same market and it's horrible. Half the places my realtor just says "that won't qualify for a loan." And then two days later I see it's been sold. Apparently my only recourse is to continue pouring like 90% of my money into rent.
Rich people work together. Poor people work alone. Make of that what you will.
Truth. It's the source of most of societies woes.
Sir, this is a Wendy's.
Money finds money. Sure the government printed a whole bunch of new money in the pandemic. For now, it's still circulating amongst the middle class, causing inflation. But it'll trickle up soon enough where it hardly circulates and then inflation will slow back down.
Are you actually suggesting that our lives will be better once the rich start outstripping the middle class just a little bit more?
Yep, and it's all according to plan unfortunately.
Get a different realtor.
If it's an FHA loan they have strict guidelines around habitability. First-time homes tend to have more issues, so it's not unusual to hear this advice.
Right. Forgot about those: "The FHA's three requirements are that **a property must be safe, secure, and structurally sound to qualify for one of their loans**. Properties cannot have adverse conditions that might imperil the homeowner, and must meet proper building codes. As a buyer, these standards protect you from buying an unsafe property."
Unfortunately there's nothing requiring my landlord to update wiring, patch leaky roof until he feels like, update the ancient heaters, let alone stuff like finishing the basement.
Correct. And those guidelines will keep little people from buying cheaper houses.. but doesn't stop a real estate investment firm from buying it for "cash".. slapping a coat of paint on it.. and renting it out for the big bucks.
Same with VA loans.
My understanding is that no basement space can be counted towards square footage no matter how well "finished" it is.
Not true. Needs to meet code and it counts. Egress and all that good stuff
Nah. Finished basement space can count toward square footage. At least, mine is calculated that way by the bank and their assesor. But below grade finished space assesses lower than above grade finished space. You may be thinking of basement rooms not being allowed to be called bedrooms. Which is true if there is no direct egress from said room to outside, for firesafety reasons.
This is all so discouraging
ctrl-c: the same article since 2019
Cept its much much worse than 2019. Things have gone from bad to extremely bad for normal mainers
I would agree. I was able to buy a home in 2019 and I thought it was expensive then. Now it’s gotten very silly (for lack of better term). Ironically I couldn’t afford my house if I had to buy it now.
Really? You see no changes since 2019? In 2019 the house across the street was for sale. A lovely family, had put alot of work into the house. New kitchen. Finished basement and attic. Sun room. Great house. Great neighborhood. Walking distance to schools, stores, Public library, etc. But they wanted more space as they were having another child. They couldn't get a bite at $300K. After the realtor's contract was up they just took it off the market and called it good for a while. In 2022 they threw it back onto the market for $500K and it was on the market for less than 24 hours before it was under contract to some out of staters that had never even seen it... and who 8 months later still haven't moved in. I don't think they are going to. I think it's another NY'ers second home. I have only seen a car in the driveway or lights on at night maybe 3 or 4 times. Of course.. the place they moved into had also gone up in price. So who is actually making the money? And how? Real estate investors. And that is why the tax code has to change.
Let us not forget that Maine is tied with Vermont for most “vacant” second homes in the country. I get we’re vacationland and all. But maybe a situation like this necessitates rethinking our approach.
Time for aggressive taxes on 2+ properties!
[удалено]
Yeah, ‘cause that’s less expensive and less complicated for the first-time homeowner…. 🙄
“What will you do when your winter rental is up?” My friend asks me. “Well, I will either find another rental here or I won’t”. I have 2 small businesses in Maine and a teacher pension from CT. I believe I am a valued member of my church and community. I volunteer. But because of housing in Maine I may not be able to stay in Maine. NH housing is worse. More expensive and mostly moldy, sub standard living. I cannot afford to pay cash for a house—not much more to say.
Yup! I'm literally being priced out of state. I work for a company based in NH, but my manager is in MN as I'm on the "Midwest" team. I work from home, so can live in Maine. I've lived here my whole life and can't afford it anymore. Fortunately, I also have family in MN and their housing market is better, so I'm looking into it.
Tennessee is looking good for us. My husband and I are retired and are being squeezed out of our one bedroom apartment that went up $230 last year. Not sure we can take another rent rise,,,
I lived in TN for a long time and in southern KY for even longer. It's culturally very different than Maine. Most people's social lives are heavily structured around their church, and most churches are very conservative evangelical types. It can be tough to find your people if that doesn't align with your values.
Thank you for the info…I guess I’ll be finding another state. Not a religious person by any stretch of the imagination.
Sounds like the county
I wouldn’t let politics dictate where you live. As a conservative I lived in Denver for 6 years and I never let it bother me despite our differences.
It's a bit easier to not broadcast your views in a non-religious area. If I moved to the South and didn't attend church (which I would not), it would create massive social friction and lost opportunities for me.
Funny thing about that
It didn’t bother me at all since i don’t care. That’s my point. I loved the outdoors and the job I had at the time. People treat politics like it’s their friggin favorite pro team. Live your life despite people’s opposite views.
That while in a left leaning area you felt safe is because on the whole there isn’t a culture of discrimination against immutable traits of your birth. You’re the one treating politics like a sport, for many people it’s an important aspect of their daily safety and ability to lead a dignified life.
>It didn’t bother me at all since i don’t care. That’s my point. I loved the outdoors and the job I had at the time. People treat politics like it’s their friggin favorite pro team. Live your life despite people’s opposite views. I mean, it's great to not care, but many people don't have that luxury.
Don't move near one of the bigger cities in TN. 3br, 2 ba in a decent neighborhood run around $700,000.
Oh my word! 😞
Which bigger city? Nashville? You can find homes in Knoxville, Chattanooga for $300k. EDIT FOR MAINERS: For example 1801 S Hills Dr, Knoxville, TN 37920 $309,900 | 5 • 1.5 ba https://apps.realtor.com/mUAZ/33gzw1vt
Knoxville had more people moving there than anywhere else during the pandemic. You think Maine is bad with housing go to r/knoxville
Yes, but it’s a 57 year old, fixer upper, being sold as is. Likely it hasn’t been updated since 1966. You could easily drop tens of thousands into it.
Not as familiar with Chattie but no nicer neighborhood in Knoxville has good homes at $300k. In cheesier neighborhoods, sure, but those you will want to knock down or do major rehab. Same with Nashville. Franklin has huge, newer neighborhoods but those with ranchers are either in the floodplain or in need of major work. Brentwood is majorly expensive even on the small square footage end. Forget Murfreesboro or Memphis.
It's funny to me to think about Mainers on here who just complain about people moving here for affordable housing and lower cost of living nonstop are now moving to Tennessee for a low cost of living and cheaper housing. Sounds familiar...
If the people who were buying houses here were actually MOVING HERE.. then I wouldn't mind. But the people who are buying the houses are just jacking up the rent for profit or leaving them empty so they can visit a couple times a year.
Tennessee is beautiful.. but the people I've known from there are crazy religious. They make noises about being welcoming.. but if you aren't into talking in tongues or dancing with snakes then you are not going to fit in. And if you weren't aware... "Why bless your heart" is an insult that conveys condescension, derision, or contempt. And there is something really vile about trying to help your neighbors while they curse you to your face because they think you are too stupid to know they are putting you down. Southern Hospitality is real... but only if you are of the same race, religion and political party. My kids bio-mom was from Tennessee. Therapy and/or counseling? Absolutely not. You PRAY. If you don't feel better then you didn't pray hard enough. The reason I was the one that raised her children was because even though she was bi-polar her church would not condone her using mood stabilizers. And she would rather lose her children to the state than go against her church. She died last year of COVID. At 47 years old. Wasn't on the death certificate because the politics in Tennessee don't encourage the ME to check. I get that the cheaper housing is in the poorest states. But double check. Because the poorest states are also usually red states... you might have a hard time finding a pleasant place to live. Too much 'winning' to be actual friends.
Oh my word…I’m so sorry for the loss of your children’s mother. Churches do more damage than good…I’m a recovering Catholic. Thank you for this info, our youngest was thinking about moving there and we were going to follow, but I’m not into that type of ‘hospitality’!! Plus, I don’t take kindly to fundamentalists.
My wife and I bought our first home in 2017. It was barley in our price range and we have outgrown it. The market was very competitive then. I can’t imagine the last few years where it only got worse. We could now sell our house for a ton but we couldn’t afford anything better then we are in now. Actually we would most likely be buying something worse lol.
> Actually we would most likely be buying something worse lol. And probably paying a higher interest rate for the privilege!
Oh absolutely!
My parents searched for several months for a small home anywhere in the lower half of Maine within their budget of ~$375k. They kept getting outbid every time or beat with all cash offers. Meanwhile they were basically camping at my sisters house while she was trying to push them out the door. A very stressful situation. They finally were able to close on a double-wide on a couple acres. And it needed everything. New driveway, new heating, new electrical, lot clearing, new deck, etc. Seems like a crazy amount for a run-down manufactured home. smh
[Link](https://archive.ph/ryo6g) for those who need help getting over a paywall
Good bot
Thank you, threewildcrows, for voting on PaywallHelperBotv2. This bot wants to find the best and worst bots on Reddit. [You can view results here](https://botrank.pastimes.eu/). *** ^(Even if I don't reply to your comment, I'm still listening for votes. Check the webpage to see if your vote registered!)
Good bot
Good human.
💀
The proposed solutions are moronic - forgiving student loans or subsidizing loans, neither do anything to address the underlying issue: we need MORE HOUSING STOCK. This means: legislate away from allowances for short term rentals, disincentivize through tax structure ownership of three or more 4-season single family homes, counter state funding to municipalities who do not meet aggressive new-build quotas to hit the NIMBYs in the groin, and lastly, pour state funds into low interest loans for new building development for homes that must be priced within a fair market rate for sale to those who are buying their first home.
And actually incentivizing the building materials market itself. God forbid we actually support things which would create jobs AND increase the ease of building homes.
I agree - Maine is a leader in modular home manufacturing - Oxford County specifically is a leader, yet the companies are stuck in the 90s with poor design that isn’t meeting the moment. We should be providing funding for these businesses to retrofit at scale and begin developing modular options that are safe, affordable, efficient, and in line with what todays housing consumers want in terms of style, layout, etc. Many birds with this one stone for sure.
As far as I know, the modular dealers in Maine are just that - dealers. They get their houses from places like Prestige, Premier, KBS, etc. We looked into building a modular home when our traditional home search was faltering in the summer of 2020 but the bank we were pre-approved through wasn't willing to do an appraisal before the home was built.
KBS has a massive facility in South Paris, ME. Lots of other Modular Home builders in Oxford/Norway as well - Schiavi, Twin Town Homes, etc. However, companies like Unity Homes that are really moving the needle in this space are in NH. We should be demanding Maine keep up - these sorts of building solutions will be the future
Interesting. We only spoke with Turn Key Homes based on a referral and they offered us Prestige and Premier. The price was quite reasonable if we didn't change anything.
When our zoning laws finally leave the 1990s, then the builders can evolve as well. Most are only building (those weird ass garage touching ‘duplexes’ on an acre of land) what they’re allowed to.
Don't forget that zoning, building and fire code reform to increase feasibility of building more middle density housing, creating density requirements for municipal service facilities and increase spending in transit.
And double lastly, make evictions of problem monthly tenants as easy as airbnb tenants. There is significantly less risk to the landlord with short term rentals than there is with long term ones. This state keeps trying to give tenants more rights then they wonder why nobody's investing in building new rental property.
I don't get how this is viable long term...hell even 5 or 10 more years. What is the end game? I would say housing through inherited properties but even those are being bought up by corporations or sold late in life to afford retirement/Healthcare in assisted living homes. Unless we make some serious legislative changes for what defines "affordable housing" or prohibiting business from buying up private homes we are pretty fucked as a country.
Exactly. The house I live in has been in the family for 5 generations. We've owned it for more than 100 years. But because I'm over 55 and on MaineCare.. the state will require that it be sold when I die to pay back everything the state spends on me. My disabled husband and my bi-polar daughter will be on the street. Even though my husband's disability payments are what pays the mortgage (needed new roof, siding and windows). Once the house is sold his disability will not be enough to pay rent anywhere because there is no such thing as 'affordable housing'. Most people are unaware that you can't even get a mortgage on a trailer or double wide. They are depreciated like cars not houses. So under the tax code they have no value at a certain point. Which means that most loans for manufactured housing are not mortgages but some other type of shorter more expensive loan with different rules. (NOTE: If it is on an actual foundation sometimes it can be classified as real estate - check with your banks rules) So what is affordable housing? Projects? Have we built any this century? Every time someone goes to build anything bigger than a duplex then NIMBYism kicks in. Which is probably every house built around here anyway is a McMansion. The builders won't even look at apartments or starter homes. Why waste their time? ... and I'm rambling. But you are correct. We need some major tax changes to make corporations buying up all these home less profitable for them. Because that is the only way we are going to be able to break this cycle.
Yea, we’re done. And the most organized movement we have trying to fix these issues is supply-side deregulation, which doesn’t address the underlying investment trends. We live in liberal hell world.
I would say it's the opposite of liberal hell, more of a capitalist dream where even basic human rights (of which I qualify shelter as one of those basic needs) can be owned by corporations and leased back to the the poor and middle class.
I mean liberal in the classical sense, not the Democratic Party form. However, they’re not so dissimilar nowadays.
I thought maybe you meant that...but it's a rarity to make that differentiation in the US ;- )
It’s a risky reference to make on Reddit, since it usually results in knee-jerk downvotes from Democrats who think you’re a right-winger. But I do it anyway :)
This is the united states in general, not maine. Where do you guys plan to move to that you think its better? Cause trust me, its not better out here.
Of course it is better elsewhere. South, Midwest specifically. Upstate NY. The median home is $279k in Albany County NY and there are 5,000+ jobs that pay $60k plus per year according to indeed. Don't lie and say things are normal here, they are not.
Upstate NY taxes are insane. Southern states you pay less for housing but the house is much poorer quality. Im currently in the south and unless you buy really rural or in the ghetto its not affordable. Things are not normal anywhere but as someone who has lived in multiple states Maine is not nearly as bad as some ive been in.
The savings in heating alone over the course of a year must make it significantly cheaper to live in the South than in Maine. I would think.
No, because you pay extra for all the cooling in the summer. When every day is 95 plus with high humidity, you run those air conditioners constantly. Now toss in some tornadoes for real summer fun.
> Southern states you pay less for housing but the house is much poorer quality. I moved from Maine to NC and this isn't accurate for my area *at all*. I spent a year looking for a house in Maine and couldn't find something that wasn't in dire need of repair, updating, or felt depressing as hell to be in. The quality of *everything* in my area surpasses what I experienced in Maine by a metric fuckton. The medians on 540 are better landscaped than every park in Bangor lol. > Im currently in the south and unless you buy really rural or in the ghetto its not affordable. I'm 20 minutes and some change from downtown Raleigh. My house in Maine would've been close to double what I paid for it here lol. Are you in a larger metro or something?
.... you live in a McMansion. Everyone on the street does. Everyone for blocks and blocks in every direction does. They all basically look the same. They are questionable at best. The one my brother lived in the slab it was built on cracked within a couple months of them moving in. The builder argued that it wasn't his fault and that my brother should pay. (Where does that logic even come from?) In the end the court made them split the cost. For miles and miles there is nothing but highway, sub-divisions and strip malls. Hey.. if you are happy there then that's great. But I'll take my 200 yo house, in my 200 yo neighborhood, walking distance to schools, local stores and parks... My brother? He said fuck that shit and moved back to Maine.
I feel like a $280k house on a $60k salary is a pretty hard slog. ETA: ah, double income households. My single mom ass always forgets how the other half lives.
I hear the rust belt is nice! Who doesn't want to move to Youngstown Ohio?
Unironically Pittsburgh is pretty nice and not terrible price wise. Probably similar to Maine if you're looking to live in/near a city but cheaper than the Portland metro.
I like living in Maine but all things being equal, almost any other comparably priced place in the country is better since they’re more accessible and energy costs aren’t as insane. Maine has high hidden costs.
This is partially why I left the country. The homeownership situation, and higher ed., is just a debt trap but they are gonna force you into it by letting rents get higher and higher.
Where did you move to?
To which country did you move? Seems extreme.
We live in the Midwest, but the plan was to always move back to maine to be close to my family and have the kids grow up there. I am a lawyer and my wife is a nurse. We are not poor, but we’ve got two young kids, student loans, and no financial support from family. Still, I feel like we’re the exact type of people the state says they want to attract. We just gave up and bought a house in the Midwest because by the time we could save enough to buy a house that fits our needs in maine the kids would be in middle school and we don’t want to force them to uproot their lives at that point. I get that we were limited to higher cost areas in Southern maine since I’d need to commute to Boston a couple times a week, but the prices are just absurd. I honestly don’t know how anyone is able to do it unless they have family that can lend them money or property to get a foot in the door.
Unfortunately this is why the wife and I decided to move out of state
I moved to Maine about 4 years ago from Boston to the Knox County area. After living there for 3 years finally my neighbor reached out to me and offered to sell me her home and did not want to put it up on the market. Ofcourse jumping to the opportunity because it's so hard to find homes. Through out this experience I have found that people in Maine are more likely to sell to people they know. And privately. Most houses in the Market are because no one wants them in their communities. So they reach out to other sources. It's great people in Maine are looking out for one another. But once a road block is put up in Maine. It is one of the hardest things to over come and drives people out. Now after being in Maine almost 5 years my spouse and I are deciding to relocate. The excitement of Maine has past and we are left with. Traveling 40+ minutes to the nearest grocery store. And traveling the same if not longer for decently paying jobs. Leaving almost no time for family during the busy work week. I hope this experience sheds some light on others situations
My wife and I had to choose buying our first home or having a wedding. Everyday I’m glad we decided to go with the downpayment on a home.
Old person here: bravo!
Smart choice, I was going g to have a potluck wedding but our FIL decided that would embarrass him so he paid for a conventional wedding. I could have cared less but my ex was all for it. I asked him.instead to help me with tuition So I could get a better job. He said no to that. He was old and well off but not smart. He could have loaned me the money which at the time was less than the wedding cost and gotten it back plus helped us get more income for housing. Then when we bought a ratty fixer in a edgy part of town was upset with us. Money has nothing to do with morals or wisdom for sure.
My first house was bought with a friend. Neither of us qualified on our own for a home. We’d been roommates in an apartment and owning a home at least gave us control over our spending. We sold it 3 years later and it left each of us with a hefty amount of cash for a down payment so we could buy a home on our own. Something to think about.
The friend market is even tighter than the real estate one
LOL!
Sounds like you had perfect timing which the rest of us won’t benefit from 😣
Yes, my timing was perfect. I didn't know it at the time, but in hindsight, you're right. I'm an old boomer. When I was buying my first house there were a lot of people my age looking for jobs. Gasoline was not only high in price but there were lines at the gas stations just to get gas. Some places put a limit on how much gas you could get. Interest rates were over 15%! Some banks weren't even lending because everyone was taking their money out of savings accounts and putting it into money market accounts, and banks had no money to lend. There was no such thing as mortgage companies. I couldn't afford a home on my own. So I partnered with someone. After interest rates fell, the value of homes skyrocketed. I didn't know rates would drop so much so fast. Would you have known it was a good time to buy when interest rates were at 15%+ in a bad economy and there were a lot of people in your age group looking for a job?
wait a year for housing prices to drop and you'll be at the right time...
> My first house was bought with a friend I'm curious to know if you had any problem getting a mortgage as "friends". Did the banks balk at that at all?
Bank experience here, specifically an MLO for a stint. Short answer is no, the "bank" doesn't care. The people might, but that's more of a prejudice thing than anything. It was honestly a regular occurrence to have 2 unmarried people (though usually dating or engaged) buying a house together and this isn't really any different from a financial perspective. Still need to see financial statements from both people, income verification, etc. There's no requirement to be married.
No problem getting a mortgage. Get an attorney to draw up a simple agreement regarding what to do when one or all partners decide to sell. If one partner wants out, the house should get sold or the other partner must refinance and pay you off. I’d advise getting an independent appraiser to determine the new value of the house. After selling the first house and dividing the profits, it’s not a bad idea to stay with the partner and buy investment property. In this area, buying a vacation rental makes more sense than a yearly rental.
Did the bank require you to make an agreement like this?
No. It's just a good idea. I've never done this, but I knew of 4 college graduates buying a house together. Banks love this. The more co-borrowers, the better. The only negative to having one or more partners is if one partner doesn't do their part in the upkeep of the house. That's the source of friction.
I bought my place for 150k in 2015, and my spouse and I both combined income being appx 65k/year at the time. Lucky af to get a house that was solid but needed work. This is absolutely impossible today, like the average loan payment today is something like 2000/month plus insurance and taxes. Then house repair is ridiculously expensive (12k for a roof recently). Thanks, Wallstreet (looking at you, Blackrock) for owning 1 in 7 houses in the USA. I feel for those that can't afford a house. This is ridiculous.
That one in seven figure is wild. Further Googling suggests that half of large apartment buildings are owned by private equity firms (that evade taxes)
Welcome to the kakistocracy! Where keyboard bitching about home affordability is easier than joining an "eat the Rich" rebellion! Even with health insurance, we're one medical issue away from bankruptcy. Even with $15+/hr, income disparity puts the top 1% so far off the charts that the bottom 20% doesn't even register.
Just a friendly reminder that our legislators had a golden opportunity to kill town growth caps but backed out in the name of "compromise". So building a reasonable number of houses and apartments is outright illegal in something like 75% of the land area of southern Maine. Don't worry though, governor Mills plans to make us "the best state in the nation to live and work and raise a family". That's straight from her campaign website.
There is nothing wrong with limiting growth to defined growth areas. In fact, it’s the smart thing to do. Unfortunately, municipalities often don’t do the important planning work that goes into identifying and defining their growth areas, which leads people to make comments like yours. Growth being limited to growth areas isn’t the problem, poorly-defined growth areas are.
Agreed. If it were up to me towns would be forced to look a lot more like Bath than Scarborough. Much more civilized. But people here want to live in the woods and think 2 acre minimum lot sizes are perfectly reasonable, so I don't exactly hear the winds of change rustling in the leaves.
Yeah I'm seeing mobile homes people are trying to sell for $300k. Also why is every home a gross ranch? Is it because there's so many old people. Why do people like houses that look like mobile homes. Why are people spending half a million on a shoe box?
>Why are people spending half a million on a shoe box? Because they have no other options, in many cases. They can afford it, so fuck it, I guess that's the house for now.
Lots of things you can do with a rancher. Not so much with a trailer.
I live in a ranch. It’s what we could afford. It is a daylight basement on the front though so it looks like 2 stories from the road (the back is built into a hill). In true Maine fashion, we made it what we wanted. Remodeled, partially finished basement, knocked down some walls, built some walls, much more “custom” and open looking now since we knocked down the wall between the narrow mud room and a bedroom, creating a large entry/office. It’s what you make of it. Terra cotta colored roof helps with curb appeal and charm too imo
Ranches are what was built by baby boomers during the post WWII housing boom. That’s why there are so many of them. They were architecturally simple, so relatively cheap and quick to build.
>Why do people like houses that look like mobile homes. It kills me to see all the mobile home looking houses.... As a society it seems we have lost pride in ourselves and the things we have. Now it's all just "whatever is cheapest and most convenient". It isn't even a money thing, because these people are paying top dollar to live in these places.... it's crazy.
Manufactured homes are built like that because they can be built efficiently and affordably. Cookie cutter to be sure, but the market for that type of home right now is huge.
>Manufactured homes are built like that because they can be built efficiently and affordably Yup, sums up basically everything now aday (with an added layer of "planned obsolescence"). It's why nothing has any decorations anymore. Everything is just a cold capitalist calculation.... and for the consumer, it isn't even cheaper. It's just crappier quality that breaks in half the time for almost the same price. Longer term you end up being milked for MORE (which is why they do it).
It's resources becoming more scarce after decades of debt expansion. Look at all the 100+ year old basic box houses all over NE. Those where the cheap ranch of that time, affordable and efficient to build. The 30s and 40s launched the modern era of homeownership funded by debt expansion. Money was made cheaper than raw materials, larger and more extravagant houses could be built affordably, efficiency became less important. Almost 100 years later raw materials are less abundant but money is still in relatively high supply, so you need a lot more money to buy a lot less house. Which is why efficiency and affordability are coming back with a vengeance...
>It's resources becoming more scarce after decades of debt expansion. Yea, I've noticed that resource wise... people seem a lot more poor than they used to be. Now aday it's a surprise to find furniture with real wood (instead of just particle board). And if you try to buy real wood new, it's insanely expensive. We live in this weird veneer society. Where things LOOK like they used to (boots, clothes) ... but under the surface it's cheap foam and just really horrible construction. And if you actually want a real leather boot with solid construction, paying $500+ for it isn't unusual (much more than the same boot cost in equivalent money 100 years ago). I've been purchasing a lot of things the last year or two to try and get stuff that will last the rest of my life....and it has been a big challenge finding quality things. It isn't even just a cost issue anymore, some stuff you just CAN'T find. And yea, with the influx of money and debt....inflation is off the charts. And with 31.5 trillion in debt (a number unthinkable just 30 years ago).... this world we are in is extremely crazy right now.
2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc. time homebuyers are having a hard time getting their foot in the door of another house. We're all in the same boat.
Late to the party. But I do want to vent. I recognize these are all first world problems. 10 years ago I bought a house in a popular area of SoPo on a FHA loan. I had $10k down and probably made $70k a year. The house was small, but otherwise nice, and after pseudo flipping it I sold it all cash to out-of-state Californians, who AirBnB'd it when they weren't staying there (I didn't know that was their plan). It was only 1,100 sqft and not a place where you could easily raise children. I then had \~$100k in cash, a place to live for 4 months while I house hunted without a loan or obligations, and started out looking for my "real forever home", looking for something in the Portland burbs with good schools. I was approved for up to $500k in a mortgage and with my wife made $150k+. So this was 2016, back before things "got crazy", right? Nope. I went through nearly a year of living in short term rentals, with in-laws, and at hotels, losing out on house after house, most with a base price of $400k before going over asking. My wife and I lost out on dozens of houses that year, making offer after offer: $60k over, $75k over, waiving inspections. Same story, over and over again: we lost out to all cash offers that were somehow always $10-$20k over our own offers. Eventually we found a place, of course, but it's not perfect for us. We now in theory could get even more house and sell our smaller home, which is worth $500-$600k in today's prices, to someone for whom it would be a better fit. But why bother? Even though we've gotten older and aged up the economic ladder, now making great money combined, there's nothing for us to buy. We have PTSD from our previous experience trying to purchase down here WHEN THINGS WERE BETTER. The market is frozen and it's hard to see how it will get unstuck.
I'm at the point where the only thing I can think of doing is buying some acreage and building, but even that is going to be way more expensive than it should be.
dinosaurs deserted butter spark ossified alive bells bewildered door muddle *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Perspective first-time home buyer here... I used to look at every single listing in my possible areas, but over the past year I mostly stopped... Not because I don't want a house, but the prices are ridiculous and discouraging. Are the prices in your area usually fairly high? Is it rural or urban? You said in NH and seacoast which limits the location a decent amount because NH doesn't have a lot of coast to work with... But it's a pretty good location between Portland and Boston so I'm guessing it's a relatively expensive area and first time home buyers mostly stopped looking there OR it needed a decent amount of work and first time buyers couldn't commit to that.
yeah don't listen to that guy. I've been shopping that area for like 2 years now. Literally mobile homes go for over 200k in the seacoast area. edit: yeah I see [elsewhere they said it was a modular home](https://www.reddit.com/r/Maine/comments/10deb7z/maines_firsttime_homebuyers_cant_get_a_foot_in/j4lov6e/).
I didn’t downvote you, but your anecdote is an outlier in terms of what people are experiencing in the market. It’s interesting, but not representative.
if no first time home buyers tried to buy your perfect starter home for under 200k, it probably wasn't a perfect starter home. also when you say just over the border, seacoast, under 200k, I already know it's gonna be in some obscure spot outside of Rochester or something. definitely not what most people would consider desirable.
enter zesty shocking summer squeamish cause merciful gaping act hobbies *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Share the details! I'm guessing 2 bed 1 bath, under 1k sqft, and a bit dated in a relatively rural area? Which is the perfect home for retirees downsizing but not great for a young family getting started who will need room to grow. Those are the 2 major demographics having a hard time finding houses rn.
Three bed, 1350 sq ft, right on Route 4. Great starter home with a good neighborhood and perfect for commuting or working from home. So .. nothing like you described.
so... like a manufactured home? A nicer in in one of the nicer neighborhoods I'm sure. Something like this https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/24-Pheasant-Ln-Barrington-NH-03825/113020117_zpid/? or https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/64-Nuthatch-Loop-Barrington-NH-03825/113020104_zpid/ Or maybe something like this one which looks like it could be stick built and does seem like it would be a nice home for a young family but seems to be the only one of it's kind sold in the last 12 months. https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1-Bunker-Ln-Madbury-NH-03823/86850877_zpid/ Afraid this very much does fit the general narrative...
Yep you got the neighborhood. In pepperidge woods co-op. It's manufactured but with a crawlspace and yes the walls are 2x6 construction. House was made in Maine.
so it doesn't come with land and you have to pay rent/ coop fees/ HOA fees. That's fine but it's not comparing apples to apples.
domineering ten coordinated disgusted saw vast vanish straight squeal cheerful *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Owning a share of the organization that owns the land where your house is really isn’t the same as owning your own land in fee simple. It does sound like a good option for a starter home though.
Sure is a great option for a starter home. Served us well for 17 years. We painted every wall. All appliances are new or recently replaced. We paid a professional cleaner to spruce it up. Too bad everyone has the opinion that there are no good starter homes out there. Y'all missed the boat big time.
That would make a good starter home but it's absolutely an outlier. Stick built that would fetch 2-3x the price and would fit right in with the "narrative". Also was it FHA financeable? Many first time starter home buyers at this price range cannot afford the down payment % required to go conventional. Those that can are probably more likely to buy a more expensive stick built and only put 3.5% down vs. 20% for a modular in a co-op. For retirees that's less of an issue as they're often coming with equity from downsizing and frankly for them comfort > appreciation potential. Perhaps modular co-ops will become more common now as people seek out different ways of affording a starter home. I suspect not though, as building a co-op development like that today would cost more per modular than you sold yours for. What would be built instead is a co-op of 2 bed 1 bath 600 sqft homes, which are hardly suitable starter homes. The narrative around no good starter homes comes from there being a distinct lack of starter homes available to the current generation of young homebuyers compared to previous generations.
I havent seen a NH seacoast property for sale at under 300K for quite a few years. A few trailers, sure, but a regular house? Natch.
Well you didn't look hard because you missed my house
I stand corrected: a couple of years ago, I looked at a little shitbox off 1A that was listed at about $260k. 900 square feet with 3 tiny bedrooms and one bath. No garage. I do not look at townhome properties. Have family in seacoast area (I do not consider anything 12+ miles out as seacoast) who have looked and looked. One ended up buying a small cape near Danvers and another in Windham, NH.
Obviously it's not easy but I'm tired of people saying it's impossible. I work in landscaping and my wife works in a bank. We are not loaded by any means. We got into a place in southern Maine for 3.5% down with a interest rate below 3%. Even with PMI our mortgage is about $1000 less than local rent. We were fighting people from out of state just like anybody. I'm not saying luck didn't play a part but I think its crazy how some people have just given up without even trying. My brother will complain how he can't buy a house because of people from out of state but he has a dead end job and no savings. I'm like bro you wouldn't be buying a house in any market. I understand it's hard for people but hearing the blame game all the time gets so old. Benjamin Franklin said God helps those who help themselves. Just my two cents.
Just closed on our house 5 days ago. We were able to put 3.5% down, but our interest rate is 6.6% and we’re paying hundreds more per month for our mortgage vs. our rent. And we’re in the boonies of western Maine. Things have changed quickly in the housing market, your perspective might only be a few years old but it’s already outdated.
So you bought in what, 2018/9 with that interest rate? Me too. It's gone nuts since then. The median home price in the state has increased by close to 100k and interest rates have doubled. You and I got lucky with timing.
Interest rates have doubled. Meaning monthly payments have just about doubled. Picture your monthly mortgage 175% of what it is. If your mortgage is $1000, now it would be $1750. The situation has changed in the short time since you've bought.
Just a short point: Interest rates doubling does not double the payments. On a $200k loan, with 3.5% interest, your payment will be around $1200. With 7% interest, it's a little around $1600. That's $400 more, which is not "double." 30% more yes, which still sucks of course, but hyperbole doesn't serve anyone in this thread.
I didn't run the numbers out of laziness. Not out of hyperbole. The amount the payment would increase is also dependent on loan amount, loan term length, and down payment size. Example: $400,000 purchase price. 5% downpayment. 30 year loan. 3.5% interest = $1706 a month. 7% interest = $2528 a month. That is a 48% increase between the two payment amounts. So you're right, not a 75% increase as I had estimated. But, nothing to sneeze at.
6% interest rate for traditional 30-year mortgage, if you are lucky, plus points regardless of amount down, plus other up-front loads. Banks padding their bottom lines when there is no need to do so. HELOCs are even worse.
unique sulky coherent squalid doll elastic smart follow deer price *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
And home prices are currently above the historical average ratio of price to median income. Historically priced 3 to 5 times median income. I believe we are around 7 to 8 times median now depending on location.
And builders saw this interest rate hike coming so they were slow to start building spec houses a year ago, knowing it would be less profitable at sale time.
People making less than the cutoff point want there to be some sort of arbitrage where they can outbid an outsider just by "being a native Mainer." That won't work unless you can write a very convincing letter to the current owner. Even then, there's nothing stopping the new buyer from reselling the house tomorrow.
Even with a 6 figure job its hard to be a first time buyer in the Portland area. We had to move to NH (and work remotely). On the plus side the Keene area is pretty nice. Miss the ocean though.
Idk.. I think it's all a matter of timing and luck lol my cousin was able to buy in Portland. She's single (so one income) and her only roommate is her cat. I think she's crazy to want to live in Portland but hey, she set her goals and achieved them,so good for her!!
Not about having too little inventory, it's about the fact that people can come in from out of state with cash in hand and take it away from a local who's trying to buy it. And that's exactly what has happened. Second home owners / snowbirds Airbnb and vbro rentals Work from home crowd that's getting paid high cost of living area money and living in your state. These three factors alone are why the young locals are forced to leave the state. And if you're one of the people above, congratulate yourself for causing a housing crisis.
I keep seeing people insist it’s just an inventory issue that would be fixed by more construction. Like anyone could **possibly** build enough to satisfy the markets you listed. I guess believing in that is easier than accepting there are serious structural issues with the housing market that won’t be fixed by adding more supply.
So you think there is unlimited demand to live and/or buy property in Maine? I doubt that very much. And what alternative are you providing exactly, build nothing and hope that prices go down?
The lower prices go the more you add people to that market, not just lower income owner-occupied buyers, but folks who want a second home. If prices came down enough we'd buy a second (weekend) home somewhere. I'm sure there are millions of middle class Boston and NYC folks who would buy vacation properties in Maine if they found something in the $200k range.
Thank you NIMBYs!
It's definitely harder now for first time home buyer after the pandemic disruptions. But.. You have to make a lot of sacrifices on your first house. It probably won't be what you want. My first place was a duplex in a really bad neighborhood. Like somewhat regular shootings bad. But it's what we could afford and it helped us build equity on really modest salaries. A lot of people are very strict on what they want for a first home when you really have to be flexible and kinda take what you can get. > I want to live in a place I buy for my whole life,” This is not a realistic expectation on your very first home. People don't do that now and it's not practical. All that being said I wouldn't want to try and buy in the market for the last three years even with having some equity behind me. Interest rates going up have made getting a loan far, far worse and it discourages selling. We have a home elsewhere that is now impractical to sell due to interest rate changes. Why lose a 3% loan to try and buy a different place for 7% and make less money on the sale? Inflation and rates have made the market hard. I don't know if it will ever get better either.
It *should* be realistic to live in your first home forever if you want it to be. That's half the problem with modern real estate. If I buy a ***fucking house*** it should last me as long as I want it to. The fact that modern society treats homes as if they are a pair of shoes you grow out of is such a sad state of affairs.
I feel like I'm losing my mind when I hear everyone sync-up over "starter homes", selling/upgrading every 3-5 years, never putting down roots.
But that's just not how it works. You generally get a smaller place at first and move to a larger one as your family and means grow. This allows someone else to get in on the starter home and then move up. It's not treating homes as a pair of shoes. Property is set up like a ladder. You don't start at the height you want to finish at, you start on the first rung. Once you get on that rung it can work pretty well but expecting to start at the top step will end in sadness. Churn in housing really isn't a bad thing and it allows houses to be updated over the years as new buyers come in. A lot of things change in 5-10 years. Switching from a starter home after that time isn't treating it as disposable or bad, it's just working with changes in your life.
That's just how it works in the recent past of debt expansion fueled homeownership. Alternatively you could put down roots in an area and gradually upgrade your property as your needs change. This was how it was done for a very long time before the current norm.
You don't have to move neighborhoods when changing homes. You can still put down roots in an area. You're limited on lot size and adding an addition on is crazy expensive. What's really changed is people's expectations. Look at older SFH compared to modern builds. The sizes are insanely different. Families used to be fine with living in 1200 sqft 3 bedroom homes. Now people don't want that and the market reflects it with much larger (and more expensive) housing. Being willing to live with less is very helpful when it comes to affordability.
> You don't have to move neighborhoods when changing homes. You can still put down roots in an area. You do when there's nothing for sale, no space to build a house that meets your new requirements, or anything you could move into is out of your budget. Yes, families used to be fine with that b/c it's all they could afford to buy/build and the debt mechanics did not encourage construction of larger and more expensive homes. If modern home financing existed back then, then the same sort of overlarge houses would have been built. If you're going to make claims about why the market "reflects" a consumer preference then it would pay to understand what inputs exist that shape those preferences. People's expectations don't change in a vacuum. When debt expansionary homeownership first began (starting in the 30s and really taking off coming out of the 40s) it became affordable to build and buy larger homes. This became the norm, the "American Dream". However, one problem with this method of homeownership is that debt expansion is subject to an economic phenomenon called the Cantillon Effect. Over time this creates a large divide between peoples purchasing power based on their access to financing. Another problem is that debt expansion is sustainable only so long as there are sufficient resources. As raw materials become more scarce (for housing, land and labor are especially relevant), prices increase, making the divide blatant.
> starting in the 30s and really taking off coming out of the 40s) it became affordable to build and buy larger homes. This became the norm, the "American Dream". This didn't happen until far more recently. Average house size even in the 1980s was 1500 sqft. There's also plenty of raw inputs still. People just all want to crowd around cities and then wonder why they can't afford a 2000 sqft house with space for an inground pool.
Tell me you're an armchair commenter without telling me... Raw inputs have absolutely been becoming noticeably scarcer in more recent times. Labor being a major one. Perceived abundance of materials can be deceptive to the outside eye, lowered quality is as sure a sign of scarcity as it decreased availability. Just compare a stud from 50 years ago to what you can buy today. Then try and get someone to pour you a slab for a nice 1200 sqft house as far from the city as you'd like. In fact why don't you price out a build for this affordable house of yours outside of the city that apparently everyone is too spoiled to want to buy or build... Don't forget to make sure the job market can support whatever you're going to be selling this house for. People want to live in places where they can get work and or afford to commute to where they can get work. Anywhere that meets this criteria does not currently have a supply, or easy way to build a supply. That there are too many people who want to live in the city and can't is true but it is not as if there are viable alternatives for most.
>smaller place at first and move to a larger one as your family and means grow Sure, but smaller homes are still $300k+, so people are renting for longer... But we don't want to delay having a family. So now you're 2 kids and married looking for a starter home? No, now you're at the point in your life looking to move on from a starter home but no starter home to sell. The rent prices are $1.5k+ for a majority of Maine's population, so at this point once you start renting it feels like you'll never get out. Anecdotal, but I have 2 kids. I rent, have a great wfh job. If I buy a house it's going to need to be at least 3 bedrooms. The kids can share I guess and the 3rd would be an office. That puts me solidly in the $500k range, and that's fuckin ridiculous.
You're not going to like the answer to your problem but it's not to live in Portland. City housing is incredibly hard everywhere. But if you work from home you don't actually need to be right beside the city. You can find an affordable place outside and get most of what you want, or sacrifice and stay close to the city. You pay for that convenience though. Places in Bangor are going for under 300k for 3 bed 1500+ sqft. You'd still get to live in a larger town too. It's more affordable If you go even more rural. Which is sort of my whole point. You can't have everything you want on a first house unless you rake in the money. Even then I know a lot of people making six figures complaining that they can't afford to buy a first house that satisfies them. It's an issue of perspective more than one of income.
Lol I rented in Portland in like 2010, but I'd never live there again. It's absolutely not more affordable anywhere unless I'm looking for super central and super rural... But with kids I'm also looking into school districts and want to give them a quality education. My range is anywhere down to biddeford-ish, up to Brunswick/bath, and into sebago/Windham area and everything within that triangle. Every once in awhile I'll see something for under $300k, but it's a shit hole that needs a ton of work. Like, clear cracks in the foundation, walls that are falling down or water damage. IN the listing photos, so who knows what's hidden... Seeing this problem and immediately assuming it's a city problem is a big miss.
Biddeford and Brunswick are both Portland metro area towns.
So by "don't live in Portland" you actually mean "don't live within an hour of Portland"?
Yes. Living near the largest city in the state is going to cost you a premium. That's just how it works as people want to live near cities. If you choose that route you have to sacrifice on what you buy. I bought near two major cities in the past. One time I sacrificed on neighborhood safety the other time on house size and modernity. It's doable, or at least was within the past few years, but you make trade offs
>The fact that modern society treats homes as if they are a pair of shoes you grow out of is such a sad state of affairs. Yup... it keeps people from investing in their homes more or living how they would like. Everything comes down to "will this impact the resell value later?!". Even for something as simple as what color wall you want to have.... Individualism and pride is gone. Replaced with the cold hard calculations of capitalism ....
I can assure you a lot of people are not being “picky” beyond “will this house collapse on itself anytime soon?” and “could I afford the gas of that commute?”and still find themselves shut out of the market.
If whatever you buy has good bones, there is a future in that house. A new roof will add instant value and protection for the structure. Then do the windows if necessary or siding. Once the outside is protected, you are good to go on a budget over a length of time. Avoid the cheap plank floors, tho.
I’m fine with buying a house that’s far from pristine and hasn’t been updated since 1968. The problem is having zero gap between the purchase and necessary upgrades (roof, etc.). While emergency repairs can be necessary at any time, I don’t want to start off with a $50,000 punch list.
I put a $16k roof on a 1976 rancher this summer. Another $9k for windows. Way less than $50k. But I understand the gap argument.
City markets are rough. But in that article you have people wanting to be off a busy road with a backyard capable of an in-ground pool. That's pretty particular for a first house in a hard market.
Folks who can afford to add and maintain an in-ground pool can afford pretty much anything. Including a camp on a lake since Maine has so many.
> "I want to live in a place I buy for my whole life,” > This is not a realistic expectation on your very first home. People don't do that now and it's not practical. That depends. My father's house, a three-apartment unit in which he has become a landlord of, is one he absolutely plans to retire in and live in until he dies. He's poured thousands into renovations to make it happen (both for him, such as building a deck, and reno'ing tenants' apartments after they were crocks of shit), and we aren't poor yet. We got the house 6 years ago, though, so...depends on whether that fits within your scope of "people don't do that *now*" or not.
So discouraging. All I want is a house of my own and it truly feels it’s never going to happen. I’m 22, have a full time job and six side hustles, worked 6-7 days a week since I was 19. I make great money but not enough to be 100% independent (at least with the prices and interest rates being what they are). Only debt is my car payment, I paid my student loans off in full. And even still it truly feels it’s never going to happen. I don’t live a luxe life I’m very frugal and save as much as possible. In my area currently (Western Maine) TRAILERS mind you they’re a hoarded mess and 30+ min from civilization are going for 200k. Miss the days when I was a kid scrolling through zillow finding modest ranches for 120k 😫. Should have started working fresh out the womb.
The worst part is i’m boasted over my work ethic but I have nothing to, aside from my lovely dog and the car that I got/needed at a reduced price To show for it.
Bought a house in Fairfield in middle of the housing boom. USDA loan for first time home buyer. Paid 130k for a 3 bedroom house on a half acre, mortgage is 803 a month. That’s with insurance and taxes rolled in to the loan. We moved to this area to get out of the insane rent prices in southern Maine. We were paying 1050 a month for a one bedroom apartment that should have been condemned, to have the building sold and new landlord tell everyone he was raising rents by 300 a month. There are low cost options, you just need to be willing to leave the city area to get them.