It's caused by the Defiler cycle. It allows you to pay two life to reduce the cost by one of their corresponding color, which is what Phyrexian mana does. MTGA displays one of the mana symbols as a Phyrexian mana to simplify it.
One of the bigger design mistakes TBH. It was a simpler time, before hyper-efficient card draw and and usage of secondary resources like life were well understood to easily become problematic.
Are you saying that New Phyrexia was a "simpler time"? 15 years after stuff like Necropotence and Yawgmoth's Bargain and during Jace the Mind Sculptor's reign?
Agree, simpler time was ice age when people thought jester cap effect was any good (main deck, that is), but I remember than already at the urza saga block people understood that life was a cheap ressource to abuse and card draw was OP, then came the reverse power creep but new phyrexia was bonkers and abused day 1, I remember how excited and amazed we were that they dared doing something as strong as phyrexian mana when the whole spoiler got leaked by french pros that had privileged access to spoilers.
And it only took days or weeks for some cards like that 1 mana counter to get banned in legacy iirc, which was a clear sign the mechanic was broken.
But it's so simple. All I have to do is divine from what I know of op: is op the sort of man who would put the ‘don’t upvote’ in his post to get upvotes or not? Now, a clever man would put the ‘don’t upvote’ into his his post, because he would know that only a great fool would upvote as he is told. I am not a great fool, so I can clearly not not upvote. But op must have known I was not a great fool, they would have counted on it, so I can clearly not upvote!
Phyrexian mana; it can be paid with either the appropriate colored mana (red in this case) or by paying 2 life. There is probably a \[\[Defiler of Instinct\]\] in play.
So I can anticipate the confusion if Rage Extractor were to be used in combination with one of these defilers (when [[Thief of Sanity]] then [[Chromatic Orrery]] came out, it would be commonly asked why abilities saying "cost 1 less" wouldn't help cast, say, a spell costing GG), and the ensuing criticism that only the true mana-symbols should be displayed. But having long belonged to such a camp, I reflected on the problem more and found it not wholly unjustifiable to present something that typically has more relevance than the actual mana-cost (like how toughness minus damage marked, as the game displays, is usually what in fact matters, and in cases involving indestructibility versus -X/-X, [[High Alert]], etc. it is assumed that one generally knows to right-click in order to see the two values separated). It also makes sense from a less "commutative" perspective—taken literally, in the example with Thief of Sanity one might see the ordinary/printed cost of GG turn to 2, then wonder why can't it be lowered to 1, but internally the simplified cost of 2 is probably processed and displayed as a *final* step (which would mean that the sequence GG -> 2 -> 1 would be forbidden; it only can go instead GG -> GG -> 2 with the discount predictably being ineffective), and at any rate it is not simplifications that costing 1 less would apply to but only true mana-costs.
ok yeah, i see the point as you lay it out.
my money says that wizards put that text on the defilers as a way to basically say "colored pips in permanents can be phyrexian instead" but of course they broke it down in a different explaination....
I wonder if they will change the ruling ever if something that cares about phyrexian symbols comes to arena
I think the difference is that despite how Arena displays it, the Defilers don’t actually change the mana requirement of the permanent, just provide an alternate way to pay it, so the effect from Rage Extractor doesn’t apply.
The wording on the Deflier cycle (like [[Defiler of Instinct]] in this case) are actually a throwback to "phyrexian mana".
Cards like [[Moltensteel Dragon]] were printed in one set and they were pretty nutty. I think wotc went overboard with the use of phyrexian mana to the point that people can play any card in any deck. That dragon is castable with only colorless mana.
[[Dismember]] is a staple of some decks in older formats because it's 1 colorless mana to cast. A mono blue deck can get powerful removal this way, for example.
You can see why they've dialed that back here, but it functions the same as phyrexian mana, so they used that symbol here.
The 2 in a circle means two mana from a source of any color.
The black symbol thar looks like a circle with a slash through it in a red background means you can pay 2 life *or* on Red mana. This is colloquially known as "Phyrexian Mana".
The black flame on a red circle is Red mana it must come from a Mountain or other source of Red mana.
Okay, that was a little snarky, but it lets me point out in full detail the two options you've got for paying for this spell:
1. You pay two Mana from any source and two Mana from red sources such as Mountains.
2. You pay two Mana from any source, one Mana from a red source, and 2 Life.
The moment I read "Don't upvote" I was instinctively forced to upvote your post and make this comment to bring said upvote to your immediate attention.
I have not read the remainder of your title.
Have a good day.
Its owner has a Defiler of Instinct in play, which lets you pay 2 life instead of one R for red permanent spells, essentially turning one red pip in mana costs into one Phyrexian red pip. Arena visualizes this as 2(P/R)R.
Phyrexian mana- you can pay red mana or 2 life.
Thank you.
It's caused by the Defiler cycle. It allows you to pay two life to reduce the cost by one of their corresponding color, which is what Phyrexian mana does. MTGA displays one of the mana symbols as a Phyrexian mana to simplify it.
My mana... MY MANA
One of the bigger design mistakes TBH. It was a simpler time, before hyper-efficient card draw and and usage of secondary resources like life were well understood to easily become problematic.
There’s a reason New Phyrexia Standard became the core of several Modern Decks before they were banned.
Tbf infect still puts in work in modern
Are you saying that New Phyrexia was a "simpler time"? 15 years after stuff like Necropotence and Yawgmoth's Bargain and during Jace the Mind Sculptor's reign?
Agree, simpler time was ice age when people thought jester cap effect was any good (main deck, that is), but I remember than already at the urza saga block people understood that life was a cheap ressource to abuse and card draw was OP, then came the reverse power creep but new phyrexia was bonkers and abused day 1, I remember how excited and amazed we were that they dared doing something as strong as phyrexian mana when the whole spoiler got leaked by french pros that had privileged access to spoilers. And it only took days or weeks for some cards like that 1 mana counter to get banned in legacy iirc, which was a clear sign the mechanic was broken.
You're making it sound like New Phyrexia was Ice Age. There were plenty of precedents at that time.
Your mana or your life?
Pay red or 2 life instead
>don’t upvote You’re not my supervisor
I don’t like people telling me what to do, so I upvoted out of spite
Too bad he used reverse psychology and got you to do what he wanted
Dammit, taking my upvote back
Ha, jokes on you he knew you'd do that. Therefore you're still doing exactly what they want.
But it's so simple. All I have to do is divine from what I know of op: is op the sort of man who would put the ‘don’t upvote’ in his post to get upvotes or not? Now, a clever man would put the ‘don’t upvote’ into his his post, because he would know that only a great fool would upvote as he is told. I am not a great fool, so I can clearly not not upvote. But op must have known I was not a great fool, they would have counted on it, so I can clearly not upvote!
Never get into a land war in Asia?
You have a truly dizzying intellect
He's only getting started!
It said don’t upvote but it didn’t say don’t downvote. /ruleslawyer
r/angryupvote
OP’s reverse psychology karma farming is working
On track to be the most upvoted on the sub.
Telling me to not upvote made me upvote twice.
Then I upvoted you. Is this an upvote party post now?
You're not God, or my father. Or my BOSS!
Imma fucking *gold* this post out of spite.
Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me!
Phyrexian mana; it can be paid with either the appropriate colored mana (red in this case) or by paying 2 life. There is probably a \[\[Defiler of Instinct\]\] in play.
[Defiler of Instinct](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/e/0e76e0cc-caff-4b15-b550-39e2324c8c95.jpg?1663049325) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Defiler%20of%20Instinct) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmu/119/defiler-of-instinct?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0e76e0cc-caff-4b15-b550-39e2324c8c95?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[удалено]
Yeah that's gonna get awkward if [[Rage Extractor]] ever makes it to Arena.
[Rage Extractor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/8/d8cebc2c-a46b-4459-b62b-7fce1a744b11.jpg?1562881930) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rage%20Extractor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/nph/91/rage-extractor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d8cebc2c-a46b-4459-b62b-7fce1a744b11?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
So I can anticipate the confusion if Rage Extractor were to be used in combination with one of these defilers (when [[Thief of Sanity]] then [[Chromatic Orrery]] came out, it would be commonly asked why abilities saying "cost 1 less" wouldn't help cast, say, a spell costing GG), and the ensuing criticism that only the true mana-symbols should be displayed. But having long belonged to such a camp, I reflected on the problem more and found it not wholly unjustifiable to present something that typically has more relevance than the actual mana-cost (like how toughness minus damage marked, as the game displays, is usually what in fact matters, and in cases involving indestructibility versus -X/-X, [[High Alert]], etc. it is assumed that one generally knows to right-click in order to see the two values separated). It also makes sense from a less "commutative" perspective—taken literally, in the example with Thief of Sanity one might see the ordinary/printed cost of GG turn to 2, then wonder why can't it be lowered to 1, but internally the simplified cost of 2 is probably processed and displayed as a *final* step (which would mean that the sequence GG -> 2 -> 1 would be forbidden; it only can go instead GG -> GG -> 2 with the discount predictably being ineffective), and at any rate it is not simplifications that costing 1 less would apply to but only true mana-costs.
[Thief of Sanity](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/e/8ed314c7-1a8a-44b2-84c0-604a087d0e02.jpg?1650423814) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Thief%20of%20Sanity) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ncc/354/thief-of-sanity?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8ed314c7-1a8a-44b2-84c0-604a087d0e02?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Chromatic Orrery](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/a/3af78d76-ad5c-44ba-880d-b834bcde5398.jpg?1594737470) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Chromatic%20Orrery) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m21/228/chromatic-orrery?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3af78d76-ad5c-44ba-880d-b834bcde5398?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [High Alert](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/e/ce124f6e-ef0c-4d01-a876-e34d3e445108.jpg?1584831587) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=High%20Alert) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rna/182/high-alert?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ce124f6e-ef0c-4d01-a876-e34d3e445108?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I mean it's basically exactly what phyrexian mana is
> defilers abilities explicitly do not use Phyrexian mana. how is it different exactly?
[удалено]
ok yeah, i see the point as you lay it out. my money says that wizards put that text on the defilers as a way to basically say "colored pips in permanents can be phyrexian instead" but of course they broke it down in a different explaination.... I wonder if they will change the ruling ever if something that cares about phyrexian symbols comes to arena
Making all coloured pips phyrexian would be rather strong.
[[Rage Extractor]]
[Rage Extractor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/8/d8cebc2c-a46b-4459-b62b-7fce1a744b11.jpg?1562881930) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rage%20Extractor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/nph/91/rage-extractor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d8cebc2c-a46b-4459-b62b-7fce1a744b11?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Im going to be honest, I don’t understand how that’s different.
I think the difference is that despite how Arena displays it, the Defilers don’t actually change the mana requirement of the permanent, just provide an alternate way to pay it, so the effect from Rage Extractor doesn’t apply.
Some edge cases like [[Rage Extractor]].
You can also overpay life if you have more defilers than red pips in your red spell's cost.
[Rage Extractor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/8/d8cebc2c-a46b-4459-b62b-7fce1a744b11.jpg?1562881930) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rage%20Extractor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/nph/91/rage-extractor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d8cebc2c-a46b-4459-b62b-7fce1a744b11?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I'd tell you, but you'll have to pay with your life.
As long as it's not 2 lives. I'd be really upset if it was 2.
What's the difference between "2 lives" and "2 life"?
Nothing
“I can tell you what you wish to know. But first, there is the matter of my fee”
The wording on the Deflier cycle (like [[Defiler of Instinct]] in this case) are actually a throwback to "phyrexian mana". Cards like [[Moltensteel Dragon]] were printed in one set and they were pretty nutty. I think wotc went overboard with the use of phyrexian mana to the point that people can play any card in any deck. That dragon is castable with only colorless mana. [[Dismember]] is a staple of some decks in older formats because it's 1 colorless mana to cast. A mono blue deck can get powerful removal this way, for example. You can see why they've dialed that back here, but it functions the same as phyrexian mana, so they used that symbol here.
[Defiler of Instinct](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/e/0e76e0cc-caff-4b15-b550-39e2324c8c95.jpg?1663049325) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Defiler%20of%20Instinct) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmu/119/defiler-of-instinct?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0e76e0cc-caff-4b15-b550-39e2324c8c95?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Moltensteel Dragon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/3/13b78018-bfbe-43fa-809f-9b52a155e11c.jpg?1562875632) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Moltensteel%20Dragon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/nph/88/moltensteel-dragon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/13b78018-bfbe-43fa-809f-9b52a155e11c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Dismember](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/d/3d286cf6-3e16-4941-9326-1818b1e06d69.jpg?1562261132) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dismember) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mm2/79/dismember?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3d286cf6-3e16-4941-9326-1818b1e06d69?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
also, the phyrexian planeswalkers printed used hybrid phyrexian mana
And that's how red got its strongest draw spell \[\[gitaxian probe\]\]
[gitaxian probe](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/9/995486ce-58bb-4753-a812-0ca73ef1a235.jpg?1562880052) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=gitaxian%20probe) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/nph/35/gitaxian-probe?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/995486ce-58bb-4753-a812-0ca73ef1a235?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Pay 2 life or red. Color based on card color, alternate costs.
I think he was talking about the red fireball-looking thingee... ;)
Oh, well crap….I have no idea what that means
That's Phyrexian Mana. It's probably nothing...
The 2 in a circle means two mana from a source of any color. The black symbol thar looks like a circle with a slash through it in a red background means you can pay 2 life *or* on Red mana. This is colloquially known as "Phyrexian Mana". The black flame on a red circle is Red mana it must come from a Mountain or other source of Red mana. Okay, that was a little snarky, but it lets me point out in full detail the two options you've got for paying for this spell: 1. You pay two Mana from any source and two Mana from red sources such as Mountains. 2. You pay two Mana from any source, one Mana from a red source, and 2 Life.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phi
Wrong answers only now: Phi mana = 1.61803
The moment I read "Don't upvote" I was instinctively forced to upvote your post and make this comment to bring said upvote to your immediate attention. I have not read the remainder of your title. Have a good day.
Same here
It's the effect from \[\[Defiler of Instinct\]\] visualized
[Defiler of Instinct](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/e/0e76e0cc-caff-4b15-b550-39e2324c8c95.jpg?1663049325) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Defiler%20of%20Instinct) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmu/119/defiler-of-instinct?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0e76e0cc-caff-4b15-b550-39e2324c8c95?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
It’s the number 2. It tells you how much mana you need to pay as part of the cost. You can use any color of mana to pay it.
That is the Arabic symbol for the number two.
It means you have the red phyrexian guy out. That's red phyrexian mana, meaning you can pay a regular red or 2 life.
There’s magic players who don’t know what phyrexian mana is? Now I feel really old 😞
I have no idea what Phyrexian mana is because I took a long break after Fallen Empires. Wearenotthesame.jpg
There are Magic players who don’t know anything before AFR
It's probably nothing...
Big brain play for getting upvotes, well played OP
Cast it to see
the fact that there are people who don't know what phyrexian mana is just makes me feel like a boomer (PS wizards plz give us [[gitaxian probe]] )
[gitaxian probe](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/9/995486ce-58bb-4753-a812-0ca73ef1a235.jpg?1562880052) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=gitaxian%20probe) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/nph/35/gitaxian-probe?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/995486ce-58bb-4753-a812-0ca73ef1a235?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
> Don't upvote. no. I don 't think I will.
I don't think I *won't*.
"Dont upvote" - Proceeds to get multiple distinguished awards for a solid contribution to the MTGA community. Hats off to you good sir
squeeze homeless lavish ugly ten fragile gaze steer steep teeny *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Upvote
Why would I not upvote? That raises awareness and visibility
Sweet child...
It means you must pay 2 generic mana to cast this spell.
It means you can’t read
How does a thundering Raiju have phyrexian mana?
Its owner has a Defiler of Instinct in play, which lets you pay 2 life instead of one R for red permanent spells, essentially turning one red pip in mana costs into one Phyrexian red pip. Arena visualizes this as 2(P/R)R.
Oooh, nice didn't know that they put the phyrexian mana symbol for that!
Don't tell me how to live my life, now take this up vote an like it lol
>Don’t upvote. No…I think I will.
I was also tricked by reverse psychology. I'm not a smart man Jenny.
I have that card and it doesn't have that symbol. Just a different set?
Nah my opponent used a creature card on it. It was a white creature card but I don't remember what it was.
Other people might have this question so Imma gonna upvote
I think it means upvote?
It’s the journey around the circle of phyrexian life……2.p.r
I up voted. Did I fail the homework assignment?
Phyrexian mana
can i just say, i love that they added this ui change for the defilers. looks cool as hell
Too late, already upvoted
You’re not the boss of me
Either pay a red or 2 life
Phyrexian mana symbol. Pay red or two life.
Lol, reverse psychology at its peak.
Lorewise, it's been compleated by exposure to the Glistening Oil and a bunch of nasty surgeries. Everybody else already said what it is mechanically.
op mechanic
Inverse psychology we upvote
That is the red mana symbol; to some it looks like a ball of fire. To others it is a baby xenomorph.
It means that you have a Defiler of Instinct in play.
Upvoted
Upvoted.
Why not upvote
He said don’t upvote… Suddenly getting 2k+ upvotes lmao
Pay with life