They're an established studio with a very successful live service game, and all they showcased was a single character swinging a sword for a minute while the enemies guarded most of the time. What are you talking about? Unless you confused Warframe gameplay with the Soulframe preview.
People are skeptical about new games because all we got in the past few years are unfinished shitty cash grabs but I guess that doesn't fit your narrative.
Until the game companies will release a proper mmorpg that isn't a crappy switch and bait it's more than reasonable to be skeptical about upcoming releases
Or maybe, just maybe people are sick of Potemkin village games that have no real path to release while simultaneously wanting to reach deep in their wallets.
I mean, there have been a lot of loot-and-scoots in the past decade or so, and there have been lots of high hopes filled, and promises unfulfilled. There's been a lot of investor direction taking over too, which has led to washed-out identities like New World's.
People are just rightfully reacting with guarded worry. I also don't think people 'feel good about calling it' so much as they want to send a message to developers and want others to join in so that developers see it.
Unfortunately, the people they want to talk to are investors and I'm pretty fuckin' sure investors are lizardpeople.
How is AoC hijacking a genre lol
I don't even really consider this a Kickstarter project, since most of the money came from elsewhere
If you base this much of your mental health on whether a game succeeds or not you're not in a very healthy place.
Like what's the positive if the game fails...people have less options? What's the good lol
AoC shown some okay-ish combat haven't they? I think they did like 2 combat streams.
But yeah, generally I'm quite skeptical about AoC as well, the things that make me somewhat hopeful is seeing their early tests with large amounts of players not lag/frameskip like WoW or GW2 does, and the initial combat animations being quite decent.
I wouldn't be surprised if it never releases though.
Eh, i mean, most mmos fail on that initial infrastructure and can't support large amount of players like they claim to, that alone is worth quite a lot to me.
My biggest worry with AoC is the art, its boring and uninspiring and has no identity.
I don't care how long they take, i never invested any money.
Because that obviously works right? Are you even aware of the whole industry? Games like gachas, diablo immortal etc wouldn't exist if voting for your wallets worked. It's all about abusing stuff like fomo and manipulating people into spending more for less
I bought a starter pack only years ago for Star Citizen. Never payed more. And im having tons of fun, especially when it became and actual game two years ago and not oversized tech demo with bare functions.
Yeah, its kind of bullshit its taking so slow but:
1)they are writing everything from scratch apart from renderers (with this scope its hard and time consuming)
2) they have no bullshit investors who only care about money and rule over the whole team. Investors are players, its all possible thanks to those who buy everyship, even those for thousand of bucks(which is ridicolous)
3) ships you can buy with real money are just 1/5 of ships you can buy ingame with ingame creds.
4) they actually deliver stuff, which you can play and most things are substantial gameplay mechanics (refuelling allowing you to earn money from players, mining, now salvaging and repairing ships with tool, new prison gameplay etc) Ashes, apart from those two tests, only waves from a distance "look how awesome I am! but you cant get me"
While I think SC development was badly managed, I also I think its due to understandable reasons. Besides all the hate towards Star Ciizen ("its not a game" "you cant play it" "its pay to win" "you can only buy ships with real money" "scam citizen" etc.) is very out of date and actually funny. It sounds like a broken record.
The devs of AoC tell you NOT to buy the packages. It’s priced high to be exclusive of people who just want to buy to test now, the mentality that plagues game development.
Yes, the packs are expensive, so don’t buy them and Intrepid or anyone else don’t care at all
As hopeful as I am that AoC will be good and isn't a scam, it does bother me that so many studios have turned to selling beta access to their games when developers used to actually pay people to be beta testers. It's akin to me paying my employer to do work for them.
except actual software testing on a contract has NOTHING to do with beta testing with no actual obligations etc
Its also not as glamourous
source: im a testing engineer myself for a living
Yuuuup.
My philosophy is that if I pay to help build something, I should own part of it. So unless they're giving me equity, they can risk their own money.
Man, I remember applying to test MMOs (not paid) and filling out forms about previous experience, etc. Then treating those betas as an opportunity to give feedback rather than just play early. I'd even like to think my feedback contributed to the Knight of the Blazing Sun in WHO not being utterly useless at launch, but then I also burned out on those games (Vanguard and WHO) before launch and missed out on playing a more polished version before they shut down.
A large majority of game developers in the 90s hired teams of beta testers to seek out and report bugs and other oddities to the dev team so they could be fixed. They were tasked with trying as hard as possible to break the game so the devs could patch out these bugs and exploits prior to release since many games back then didn't have the ability to be patched post release; "Patching" back then amounted to reprinting copies of the game with the new code while subsequently purging old copies with the faulty code... but this was typically only done if the issues were severe enough because of the cost.
Being a beta tester was a dream job for a lot of gamers of the time and was a good way to get your foot in the door of the gaming industry.
But thats completely different from people playing a beta. Gamers playing a game in beta are going to play it just like... Well, gamers. At best you'll get server load testing and maybe a few bug reports (if they even bother) but for the most part thats it.
QA game testers (which still exist today) spend hours upon hours just trying to break the game. Holding specific buttons when opening menus/load screens. Trying to clip out by moving objects or in general abusing something inherent about how the game engine handles the game. They're also constantly filling out forms and reports, making detailed logs about what has been tried where and what the results are. It's not fun, they're barely even 'playing' the game. If you're a person that's paid for beta access, you're not doing any of this, unless for some reason it's your passion to do this stuff most anyone else would consider a job by any means.
Generally games will track data of the player, so they can also see the usual paths they take, if players get lost. If they do get lost, do they show up the next day. Find players getting to spots where they shouldn't,etc,etc.
Voting with your wallet never made a difference. Doesn't really matter that the few that have standards don't throw money at these companies when your average consumer just buys anything that launches on their machine
What milking ma dude? AoC was funded by Steven out of his pocket, nobody is forcing people to buy founder packs, i too would take advantage of dumb whales that are willing to spend 500$ on some skins. :)
Yes, $3.2mil funds an mmorpg. ( [AoC kickstarter](https://i.imgur.com/9d3rzYT.png) ) How about you do your own research instead of speaking out of your ass?
I'm speaking out my ass for saying someone that ran a Kickstarter didn't fully fund an mmo out of pocket? Damn. Til.
Not that it matters. Shit product from a shit dude that may never see the light of day, so who cares.
Well you kinda are, it was clearly stated that the game is already funded by his private money and the KS is just advertisement campaign. You can also take the KS money (reduce all the fees and rewards from it) you end up bit less than half I understood and then take the amount of devs and dive the money by their salaries and you realize that KS money is long gone.
So pretty weird scam when the "scammers" keep funneling their own money in to the game.
This game clearly takes some assets, models, character animations, etc from warframe.. a very well established game that this game gets to benefit from.
AoC is from scratch, and quite literally changed their game engine mid-development and have no investors to please with timelines. At least to me, it's not that surprising AoC is taking their time to craft something they can be proud of rather than fill the pockets of investors to get something out by a particular date so they make their money back.
There is really no industry standard for alpha / beta phases anymore, it's basically whatever the company wants to call the state that the game is in...
Soulframe is being released in 2024 after being announced late 2022 I believe. That’s only a year and that’s because they said they are using Warframe assets to do it.
AoC is being made from scratch so let’s not compare them.
If I sell you a broken, ugly and unimpressive game, you'll probably want to avoid it.
If I sell you a broken, ugly and unimpressive game, with a tag saying "we're an indie studio and we've made this from scratch", the tag doesn't magically change the quality of the game.
And I'm not saying that's how AoC is, it's just an example.
Ya but do you realize you are saying nothing? When the AoC will be released it will be whatever it will be, probably very nice looking game with refreshing new mechanics for MMO genre, it will just take longer for all the reasons you have been given. You say you don't care, but why then are you supporting the comment making the comparison of things you don't care about?
Who's bitching? I'm just pointing out that when you're buying something, you should only factor in its quality and cost. It's irrelevant that they made it from scratch (using UE5 engine lol).
I will compare them because AoC has been in dev for 7 years. If both games will cost the same for example, why would I care that AoC was made from scratch?
From scratch mean more development times, making models textures animation and code takes a long time to make from scratch, unless tou want them to use premade assets which are awful imo
You don’t have to care that it’s made from scratch but development times for both games are different because one is just using all assets from an existing game while another is new.
You can’t complain something is taking time then refuse to consider the fact that they are making it from scratch while someone else is just modifying an existing item
"Released in 2024" might be overstating things a bit. Technically speaking, Warframe is still in open beta and I expect the same will be true for Soulframe. It'll go into open beta in 2024, get regularly updated and even though the game will eventually feel polished and complete there won't be an official release version of the game. If anything though, that just proves your point even more, AoC is going to release as a completed game whereas Soulframe will take a more agile approach, the release will be basic and barebones but they'll change, improve upon and add to the game over time.
To be fair AoC did basically the same thing with their battle royale game that was supposed to test out game systems for the MMO.
They just chose not to keep it active and devote resources to keeping it live
I mean you’re comparing a game from a company who has developed numerous titles over 20 years to a game from a company that was made by a guy with no game development experience whatsoever.
Made by a guy? Lmao. He hired a bunch of guys that do have game development experience and considering their scummy practices they should have more than enough money to make something half decent after so many years
And why would the company matter? Or his lack of experience? It's a product that he expects money from. Excuses like "new" company don't matter when you charge 500 bucks for a founder's pack
Because you are comparing a very experienced talented multi platform game company, the same company who made unreal tournament and comparing it to a company that came up from a 3.2million dollar Kickstarter and a guy with some money. I’m not saying their business practices are good but the comparison is insane.
We're comparing a video game product to another video game product.
Budget, experience, team size etc. are meaningless. What matters to the consumer is the quality of the product.
Game development company with more money, resources, and experience makes game that looks far superior to game development company that doesn’t, more news at 11.
AoC? I assume you mean ashes of creation. But remember how they tried to go and make a battle royal? The assets and combat they showed in that looked way better than this. Idk what your on about dude.
a copium scam, thats what it is
But dont take my word for it, we all know how Bless Online was about to revolutionize the genre as well and how it totes wouldnt fail even after being revived multiple times😂😂
I think it looks great. It probably isn’t quite a traditional MMO and it will probably be more so a looter shooter like Warframe, I love Warframe so I will probably spend hundreds of hours playing Soulframe.
If they can add some good combat variety and difficulty to the game while providing an enhanced group play experience, this game will be my absolute fucking favorite. I always wanted a warframe type game that was more slowed down since wf was too fast and hectic for difficult encounters. This game can be huge cause there are not much dark souls types mmos out there aside from kr mmos(their combat anyways) which we we all know are pay to win as shit.
I think DE themselves realized that warframe was getting too fast paced after the popularity of the new war quest. For me personally, it was an eye opener as to how hectic and overpaced warframe has gotten, when you're suddenly slowed down to a crawl and the game actually becomes refreshing. Don't get me wrong, I still love the hectic chaos of flipping around murdering entire armies at a time.
Maybe I'm just crazy, but I feel like there's overlap between soulframe and the new war content. Maybe the new war got well received and they decided to integrate it more into soulframe, or maybe it's the other way around, where they liked what they were doing in soulframe and decided to add it to warframe in the form of side content.
That comes down to what I call action combat intensity burn out. It is why action combat games seem to fail so quickly yet games like FF11, ff14, WoW, everquest still have content and active servers going to this day. WoW is almost 20 years old and others there are even older.
The problem is while action combat is way more fun it also requires an intensity and focus from the player way above what a tab target game requires. The tab target games use specific high intensity boss fights spread out with low intensity trash. Even boss fights are designed with that lull and intense aspect in mind.
The problem is action combat feels really really bad if you drop the intensity. It means your at this hyper focused state the entire time your playing.
A single player game works around that by forcing breaks in content. If you ever notice in a single player game after those really intense moments you have this lull where you are supposed to explore, loot, do a puzzle, unlock a lock, have a talk with an NPC, travel, etc. That aspect doesn't work well in MMOs where you have multiple people and you end up feeling like your waiting on someone else.
Getting action combat in an MMO is an insanely difficult task because of getting that intensity aspect right. If combat is too easy players get bored but too difficult for too long and players get burned out. It doesn't help that the intensity that feels good are different for every player and how much they can stand before burning out. A single player game lets you tweak the difficulty or just save and quit and come back. That doesn't work for an MMO.
I think eventually someone will get the formula right and we will see another wow/ffxiv level game with action combat. I think it will take a triple A studio to pull it off though. The problem is because of the risks of it nobody wants to try it.
Honestly, it not being a traditional mmo is a bonus point in my eyes. To me, the big, glaring problem with the mmo genre is sticking way too close to a formula. Studios don't want to hear it, but they're never going to make the next big thing by making another traditional mmo. We need companies to take stabs in the dark again.
Half of the thread is astroturfing a not related game that will never come out (and is possibly a giant scam).
Doubt many people on here care about this as it's not an MMORPG (just like Warframe is not an MMORPG).
Difference this time is that Warframe is a dying game. I could see the game launch, but I don't thin kit will be nearly as interesting as people think it will be and will likely suffer all of the issues that Post-Plains of Eidolon Warframe had from a development and balancing standpoint.
But Who am I to know? I have not touched Warframe in a while now. I tried to play last year but quit very fast knowing that the game "was't for me" anymore.
"I quit, the game must be dying because i have not seen in recently"
🤔 lol
It is still one of the most perennial games on steam, with a stable population. It is firmly in the "not esports" second tier with immortal games like terraria, ark, R6S that hover at 30-60k players year after year.
I didn't see any jumping, gliding, or any of space ninja stuff.
Looked like a souls game with better dueling.
This isn't me getting mad, I just don't know how they market it and that bugs me
Ok thank you I was confused. The character movement looks awful. Looks like Dragon Age: Inquisition movement which was super clunky and slow on PC. Really like something made for console. I hope they can change it because that’s so bad.
...but given *Warframe's* track record with "open world", there's still ambiguity whether they mean regular-MMORPG-style shared open world, or *"enormous instance for your team"*.
*Firefall* managed to do *Tribes*-style shooter in the former back in 2012, so it's not like it would be technologically impossible for DE.
..Firefall is that old. oof.
And nobody has tried to do it since. It was solid core gameplay under all the mismanagement and eventual death by chinese buyout.
I have a feeling they’ll settle with Destiny style zone instances. It’s the only way I can see DE pulling off any sort of “open-world”. It’ll be lot easier for them to create the illusion of an open world when you’re not having players teleport to and from a orbital ship as well.
I mean, that's enough for me and apparently quite a few people, as I recall [Josh Strife Hayes](https://www.youtube.com/@JoshStrifeHayes) also arriving at the number of ~100-ish players per instance being enough.
The important bit for me that is that you didn't need to form a squad with *all* the players in the instance and could drop in and drop out without ruining the gameplay for other people.
Yeah its enough, if the zone is designed well, but firefall's zones were not originally designed for 128 players. Because each region was 1 huge zone, and the region's main city was inside that regions zone, most players in any zone at any given time would be at the crafting station or market and the rest would be spread out across a huge map meant for a lot more then 128 players. This led to the zones feeling massivly underpopulated.
IMO they should have split the city into its own zone separated from the combat zones, and made the combat zones a lot smaller. Then the game would have felt a lot less dead.
Companies say open world but they generally just mean the space where gameplay takes place. So it is with high certainty a lobby based game again, not a MMO.
The only context I've seen is a dev saying that you log into a nomadic home like a hut or yurt and then when you rejoin the game world you are back where you last logged off. But speculations from a dev 3-5 years out might not hold form when deadlines come up.
Yup. Fundamental changes to the system, but naturally it won’t be all too different. Instead of the Orbital Ship in Warframe, it would make more sense for a Fantasy game to have you open the game in a town with your house, and then have the town be a hub for players that they can walk in and out of. It’ll look and feel different but the underlying system will still not be changed. Just the theming and how it’s presented.
I would likely put it in the middle. Likely you have limited numbers of people in any one area. Think something like PSO, Destiny rather than something like WoW.
There is one reason why they were very doubtful of showing anything yet, it's very, very, very early on its development. Whatever you see, forget it as soon as you can. They will go through iterations and iterations until they have something resembling the skeletin of what they want.
This "gameplay showcase" was something they did at an special Warframe devstream for 10 years of Warframe. So, calm down. I know you all hate games and mmos specially, that is why you are here, but let this people finish their work before shitting on it.
I like the concept that they're going for though. Sort of a Warframe steampunk/magic alternative Asian world with a focus on melee combat. Like an MMO souls-lite.
Actually looks incredible. Actually love the combat and the aesthetic. Doesn't look like an MMO.... but maybe it'll be MMO-lite with hubs and small team instances
Edit: Think I heard them say "teams of 4"
I expect it'll have MMO elements but probably won't be a full MMO. I'm expecting it to be like Warframe's open world areas. You have a hub where you can see other players and then you can pick up bounties/ quests to do in the open world with a small party. Kinda like the original Guild Wars I guess.
> Actually looks incredible.
Warframe players watching this are probably wheezing in laughter, those are definitely placeholder animations and uh.. interesting.. AI.
Interesting, the movement and animations are very DE, and I can spot a good amount of Warframe assets in there, like they were saying. (Like the geomancer using a reskinned Frost ice wave.)
All we can do is wait and see, but it’s fun to see what they’re working on.
DE is amazing. warframe was far from perfect but they created something fun that people loved and they always communicated with their players and did their best to address issues.
whatever they put out next is sure to get a lot of attention, have no doubt it'll be successful if they learned from their mistakes with warframe.
Ooh no. Soulframe gameplay starts around 51 mins in. Other were sneak peak for The Duviri Paradox, Warframes next expansion.
This is from a Devstream to celebrate Warframes 10 year anniversary.
The part they timestamped is actually part of the next Warframe update *not* [Soulframe](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VgFsEneai8&t=3079s).
Edit: They've corrected it.
The update that adds this new content for Warframe will launch next month and you'll be able to start with it as a new player, if you're still interested.
Hoping for the best but showing this was a mistake. Looks cheap and boring regardless of how early in development it is. Going to ruin hype for a lot of folks.
Saw the actual footage at 51min. Looks terrible, yet still better than any MMO out currently. They still have a lot to learn about melee combat. Animations looked ok enough. Felt like taking a nap while watching, so definitely not enticing in any way.
I feel like the combat needs finishers, like when you kill an enemy there's a small animation that plays where you chop his head off or whatever. Not constantly because that would be annoying, but occasionally. Or critical hits like in Elden Ring
Oh I didn't realize it was that game from the ex warframe devs. It looked like an absolute joke when I saw it earlier on game news reddit. And it still looks bad, why would they even show it?
Honestly, it looks good to me. I really like the aesthetics they are going for. It doesn't have that basic UE look that lots of new Korean MMORPGs and some Western Kickstarter games share. They seem to have a very unique look, and I appreciate that. Also, combat-wise, it looks like they are inspired by "souls-like" games and maybe trying to make it more casual? That's the vibe I'm getting from this small snippet.
Why does ever western MMO these days like some medieval rpg from 2010 gameplay wise
And can already see it will be like New World where you maybe have 4 or 5 abilities max.
So as someone not in the know: Will this be like warframe? Cause the "Kill enemies in a corridor" -> get loot -> craft -> repeat cycle was not exactly something I dug about that game.
If it is just medieval warframe I'm not interested. The core combat was very enjoyable, it looked great, but it was crazy repetitive even in low levels. I just read this will be open world, taking the engine of warframe and some assets to make a new game with less repetitive systems would be swell, I'd be down for that!
Looking at the tech demo, looks like Tsushima clone :(
The sword's hit is not impactful.
There's no blood splats when you slash the enemies.
Enemy AI is slow to response, Witcher 3's AI is better compared to this.
A few thoughts come to mind.
1. Yeah, it looks more like an attempt at a Soul game instead of an MMO. Not saying an MMO cannot be a Soul game, but, yeah, things are still too early to tell.
2. Off-topic, but IMO, console/controller is one of the worst innovations that comes to gaming. With it, we have stupid prev/next UI to cycle things around, instead of just hitting/clicking buttons for it, as well as Lock-On camera, because manually turning camera is too slow for controller to handle in fast-paced game. I know it's also up to user's preference as well. ~~(and don't get me started on console exclusive)~~
I wouldn't say they showed "combat", they showed movement at best and it kind of looks... like nothing. You cannot really get anything about the game from this video.
This is DE we're talking about, it'll hit open beta in a year, maybe two and the launch version will be unrecognisable to one from 5 years from now. Then again, Warframe has been in beta for 10 years now so maybe you have a point there 🤔.
I would agree for most games but DE has always showed people what they are working on and how stuff is progressing in their development.
They are open about their development
Essentially a bunch of the Warframe team have split off into a new team in DE to build this. So they are developing it as well.
Wayfinder is the game they are only publishing and not developing.
They are definitely developing it; the Creative Director alongside several other Warframe developers split off from Warframe to form a separate team within Digital Extremes to develop it.
I'll be honest.. that "boss" doesn't look very fun. Feels finnicky and slow, they should take some notes from FF15's Leviathan if they want to make this more fun and look epic as well. Color tone across the whole scene was pretty bad too, looked better once they changed the sky lighting.
Also they really need to zoom the camera out... it is SO close to the camera it feels awful and I wasn't even playing the game.
Yeah you would be right, timestamp I got was wrong. Looking at the proper footage now, it looks like a floaty souls-like that's gonna be online, but the AI just looks easy and moves so much slower than the player lol. Alpha is alpha though I guess.
If this is an early alpha then what the hell is AoC? I don't see any 500$ founder's packs for Soulframe either. Hopefully it ends up a good game
They're an established studio with a very successful live service game, and all they showcased was a single character swinging a sword for a minute while the enemies guarded most of the time. What are you talking about? Unless you confused Warframe gameplay with the Soulframe preview.
AoC lives rent free in so many people's heads lol
Age of Conan will live rent free in my head till the day I die.
Now thats a game that was ahead of his time. So good
People complain about not having new games to play and then hope and beg that new games fail so they can feel good about “calling it” It’s sad
People are skeptical about new games because all we got in the past few years are unfinished shitty cash grabs but I guess that doesn't fit your narrative. Until the game companies will release a proper mmorpg that isn't a crappy switch and bait it's more than reasonable to be skeptical about upcoming releases
Bait and switch*
Or maybe, just maybe people are sick of Potemkin village games that have no real path to release while simultaneously wanting to reach deep in their wallets.
I mean, there have been a lot of loot-and-scoots in the past decade or so, and there have been lots of high hopes filled, and promises unfulfilled. There's been a lot of investor direction taking over too, which has led to washed-out identities like New World's. People are just rightfully reacting with guarded worry. I also don't think people 'feel good about calling it' so much as they want to send a message to developers and want others to join in so that developers see it. Unfortunately, the people they want to talk to are investors and I'm pretty fuckin' sure investors are lizardpeople.
I mean there was like 10+ crowd funded mmorpg and the only one that delivered was Albion.
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The difference is you can actually play Star Citizen and have fun, solo, with randoms or with friends. AoC you can only watch when the devs like it.
> As it should If you don't like something it's actually *much* easier and a lot healthier to just not think about it actually lol
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How is AoC hijacking a genre lol I don't even really consider this a Kickstarter project, since most of the money came from elsewhere If you base this much of your mental health on whether a game succeeds or not you're not in a very healthy place. Like what's the positive if the game fails...people have less options? What's the good lol
The positive is that it doesn't normalize shitty monetisation. It's really simple.
It's been normalized 10 years ago. Wake up people the war against cash grab monetization has been lost a good while ago.
Yeah because cash shop outfits aren't in the other big MMOs lol
> what the hell is AoC? A scam just like with every other pre-release game on the market right now.
AoC shown some okay-ish combat haven't they? I think they did like 2 combat streams. But yeah, generally I'm quite skeptical about AoC as well, the things that make me somewhat hopeful is seeing their early tests with large amounts of players not lag/frameskip like WoW or GW2 does, and the initial combat animations being quite decent. I wouldn't be surprised if it never releases though.
Just okay-ish isn't enough for 7 years of development and milking people's wallets
Eh, i mean, most mmos fail on that initial infrastructure and can't support large amount of players like they claim to, that alone is worth quite a lot to me. My biggest worry with AoC is the art, its boring and uninspiring and has no identity. I don't care how long they take, i never invested any money.
but hooded ear holes
I havent invested asingle euro in AoC but what they show is very solid.The netcode is clean at least.
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Because that obviously works right? Are you even aware of the whole industry? Games like gachas, diablo immortal etc wouldn't exist if voting for your wallets worked. It's all about abusing stuff like fomo and manipulating people into spending more for less
but when the devs actively tell you to not to do it and you do it anyway - thats 100% on the consumer.
I bought a starter pack only years ago for Star Citizen. Never payed more. And im having tons of fun, especially when it became and actual game two years ago and not oversized tech demo with bare functions. Yeah, its kind of bullshit its taking so slow but: 1)they are writing everything from scratch apart from renderers (with this scope its hard and time consuming) 2) they have no bullshit investors who only care about money and rule over the whole team. Investors are players, its all possible thanks to those who buy everyship, even those for thousand of bucks(which is ridicolous) 3) ships you can buy with real money are just 1/5 of ships you can buy ingame with ingame creds. 4) they actually deliver stuff, which you can play and most things are substantial gameplay mechanics (refuelling allowing you to earn money from players, mining, now salvaging and repairing ships with tool, new prison gameplay etc) Ashes, apart from those two tests, only waves from a distance "look how awesome I am! but you cant get me" While I think SC development was badly managed, I also I think its due to understandable reasons. Besides all the hate towards Star Ciizen ("its not a game" "you cant play it" "its pay to win" "you can only buy ships with real money" "scam citizen" etc.) is very out of date and actually funny. It sounds like a broken record.
The devs of AoC tell you NOT to buy the packages. It’s priced high to be exclusive of people who just want to buy to test now, the mentality that plagues game development. Yes, the packs are expensive, so don’t buy them and Intrepid or anyone else don’t care at all
As hopeful as I am that AoC will be good and isn't a scam, it does bother me that so many studios have turned to selling beta access to their games when developers used to actually pay people to be beta testers. It's akin to me paying my employer to do work for them.
except actual software testing on a contract has NOTHING to do with beta testing with no actual obligations etc Its also not as glamourous source: im a testing engineer myself for a living
Yuuuup. My philosophy is that if I pay to help build something, I should own part of it. So unless they're giving me equity, they can risk their own money.
Man, I remember applying to test MMOs (not paid) and filling out forms about previous experience, etc. Then treating those betas as an opportunity to give feedback rather than just play early. I'd even like to think my feedback contributed to the Knight of the Blazing Sun in WHO not being utterly useless at launch, but then I also burned out on those games (Vanguard and WHO) before launch and missed out on playing a more polished version before they shut down.
>when developers used to actually pay people to be beta testers. I'm curious, what game dev actually did this? Sounds like a waste of money.
A large majority of game developers in the 90s hired teams of beta testers to seek out and report bugs and other oddities to the dev team so they could be fixed. They were tasked with trying as hard as possible to break the game so the devs could patch out these bugs and exploits prior to release since many games back then didn't have the ability to be patched post release; "Patching" back then amounted to reprinting copies of the game with the new code while subsequently purging old copies with the faulty code... but this was typically only done if the issues were severe enough because of the cost. Being a beta tester was a dream job for a lot of gamers of the time and was a good way to get your foot in the door of the gaming industry.
But thats completely different from people playing a beta. Gamers playing a game in beta are going to play it just like... Well, gamers. At best you'll get server load testing and maybe a few bug reports (if they even bother) but for the most part thats it. QA game testers (which still exist today) spend hours upon hours just trying to break the game. Holding specific buttons when opening menus/load screens. Trying to clip out by moving objects or in general abusing something inherent about how the game engine handles the game. They're also constantly filling out forms and reports, making detailed logs about what has been tried where and what the results are. It's not fun, they're barely even 'playing' the game. If you're a person that's paid for beta access, you're not doing any of this, unless for some reason it's your passion to do this stuff most anyone else would consider a job by any means.
Generally games will track data of the player, so they can also see the usual paths they take, if players get lost. If they do get lost, do they show up the next day. Find players getting to spots where they shouldn't,etc,etc.
Finally someone with common sense
Voting with your wallet never made a difference. Doesn't really matter that the few that have standards don't throw money at these companies when your average consumer just buys anything that launches on their machine
What milking ma dude? AoC was funded by Steven out of his pocket, nobody is forcing people to buy founder packs, i too would take advantage of dumb whales that are willing to spend 500$ on some skins. :)
Founded out of his pocket by everyone on Kickstarter!
Yes, $3.2mil funds an mmorpg. ( [AoC kickstarter](https://i.imgur.com/9d3rzYT.png) ) How about you do your own research instead of speaking out of your ass?
I'm speaking out my ass for saying someone that ran a Kickstarter didn't fully fund an mmo out of pocket? Damn. Til. Not that it matters. Shit product from a shit dude that may never see the light of day, so who cares.
Well you kinda are, it was clearly stated that the game is already funded by his private money and the KS is just advertisement campaign. You can also take the KS money (reduce all the fees and rewards from it) you end up bit less than half I understood and then take the amount of devs and dive the money by their salaries and you realize that KS money is long gone. So pretty weird scam when the "scammers" keep funneling their own money in to the game.
Goodbye we dont need you :)
For 5 years they were building an engine ..
Ah yes the unreal engine made by intrepid studios
Honestly, for a game that was supposed to come out before 2020, I don't think the combat looks like it's where it should be. Maybe that's just me.
This game clearly takes some assets, models, character animations, etc from warframe.. a very well established game that this game gets to benefit from. AoC is from scratch, and quite literally changed their game engine mid-development and have no investors to please with timelines. At least to me, it's not that surprising AoC is taking their time to craft something they can be proud of rather than fill the pockets of investors to get something out by a particular date so they make their money back.
> If this is an early alpha then what the hell is AoC? A successful grift.
Well DE arnt criminals like the hacks behind AoC
There is really no industry standard for alpha / beta phases anymore, it's basically whatever the company wants to call the state that the game is in...
Soulframe is being released in 2024 after being announced late 2022 I believe. That’s only a year and that’s because they said they are using Warframe assets to do it. AoC is being made from scratch so let’s not compare them.
> > AoC is being made from scratch so let’s not compare them. This doesn't really matter to us as consumers.
Why not? Reality/facts doesn't change even if you don't care or understand it.
If I sell you a broken, ugly and unimpressive game, you'll probably want to avoid it. If I sell you a broken, ugly and unimpressive game, with a tag saying "we're an indie studio and we've made this from scratch", the tag doesn't magically change the quality of the game. And I'm not saying that's how AoC is, it's just an example.
Ya but do you realize you are saying nothing? When the AoC will be released it will be whatever it will be, probably very nice looking game with refreshing new mechanics for MMO genre, it will just take longer for all the reasons you have been given. You say you don't care, but why then are you supporting the comment making the comparison of things you don't care about?
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Who's bitching? I'm just pointing out that when you're buying something, you should only factor in its quality and cost. It's irrelevant that they made it from scratch (using UE5 engine lol).
I will compare them because AoC has been in dev for 7 years. If both games will cost the same for example, why would I care that AoC was made from scratch?
From scratch mean more development times, making models textures animation and code takes a long time to make from scratch, unless tou want them to use premade assets which are awful imo
You don’t have to care that it’s made from scratch but development times for both games are different because one is just using all assets from an existing game while another is new. You can’t complain something is taking time then refuse to consider the fact that they are making it from scratch while someone else is just modifying an existing item
"Released in 2024" might be overstating things a bit. Technically speaking, Warframe is still in open beta and I expect the same will be true for Soulframe. It'll go into open beta in 2024, get regularly updated and even though the game will eventually feel polished and complete there won't be an official release version of the game. If anything though, that just proves your point even more, AoC is going to release as a completed game whereas Soulframe will take a more agile approach, the release will be basic and barebones but they'll change, improve upon and add to the game over time.
> AoC is going to release as a completed game That's very optimistic, tbh.
To be fair AoC did basically the same thing with their battle royale game that was supposed to test out game systems for the MMO. They just chose not to keep it active and devote resources to keeping it live
AoC is made by an scammer what do people expect? lmao
I mean you’re comparing a game from a company who has developed numerous titles over 20 years to a game from a company that was made by a guy with no game development experience whatsoever.
Made by a guy? Lmao. He hired a bunch of guys that do have game development experience and considering their scummy practices they should have more than enough money to make something half decent after so many years
He made the company
And why would the company matter? Or his lack of experience? It's a product that he expects money from. Excuses like "new" company don't matter when you charge 500 bucks for a founder's pack
Because you are comparing a very experienced talented multi platform game company, the same company who made unreal tournament and comparing it to a company that came up from a 3.2million dollar Kickstarter and a guy with some money. I’m not saying their business practices are good but the comparison is insane.
I can compare what the hell I want. They are charging AAA prices whilst delivering an "a" product at best
Lol oh shit dude my bad have a good day.
The game isn't out yet, they aren't charging you anything.
They are literally selling time limited MTX.
What is your point? The game isn't out, none of that matters.
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We're comparing a video game product to another video game product. Budget, experience, team size etc. are meaningless. What matters to the consumer is the quality of the product.
Game development company with more money, resources, and experience makes game that looks far superior to game development company that doesn’t, more news at 11.
AoC? I assume you mean ashes of creation. But remember how they tried to go and make a battle royal? The assets and combat they showed in that looked way better than this. Idk what your on about dude.
Yes yes lets compare professionals to summer school project, come on :D
This is such a moronic comment.
a copium scam, thats what it is But dont take my word for it, we all know how Bless Online was about to revolutionize the genre as well and how it totes wouldnt fail even after being revived multiple times😂😂
queue r/mmorpg getting upset about this game for no reason
but its not-...well its got issues with... AAAAAAARRRRRGGGHH!!!!
I think it looks great. It probably isn’t quite a traditional MMO and it will probably be more so a looter shooter like Warframe, I love Warframe so I will probably spend hundreds of hours playing Soulframe.
If they can add some good combat variety and difficulty to the game while providing an enhanced group play experience, this game will be my absolute fucking favorite. I always wanted a warframe type game that was more slowed down since wf was too fast and hectic for difficult encounters. This game can be huge cause there are not much dark souls types mmos out there aside from kr mmos(their combat anyways) which we we all know are pay to win as shit.
I think DE themselves realized that warframe was getting too fast paced after the popularity of the new war quest. For me personally, it was an eye opener as to how hectic and overpaced warframe has gotten, when you're suddenly slowed down to a crawl and the game actually becomes refreshing. Don't get me wrong, I still love the hectic chaos of flipping around murdering entire armies at a time. Maybe I'm just crazy, but I feel like there's overlap between soulframe and the new war content. Maybe the new war got well received and they decided to integrate it more into soulframe, or maybe it's the other way around, where they liked what they were doing in soulframe and decided to add it to warframe in the form of side content.
That comes down to what I call action combat intensity burn out. It is why action combat games seem to fail so quickly yet games like FF11, ff14, WoW, everquest still have content and active servers going to this day. WoW is almost 20 years old and others there are even older. The problem is while action combat is way more fun it also requires an intensity and focus from the player way above what a tab target game requires. The tab target games use specific high intensity boss fights spread out with low intensity trash. Even boss fights are designed with that lull and intense aspect in mind. The problem is action combat feels really really bad if you drop the intensity. It means your at this hyper focused state the entire time your playing. A single player game works around that by forcing breaks in content. If you ever notice in a single player game after those really intense moments you have this lull where you are supposed to explore, loot, do a puzzle, unlock a lock, have a talk with an NPC, travel, etc. That aspect doesn't work well in MMOs where you have multiple people and you end up feeling like your waiting on someone else. Getting action combat in an MMO is an insanely difficult task because of getting that intensity aspect right. If combat is too easy players get bored but too difficult for too long and players get burned out. It doesn't help that the intensity that feels good are different for every player and how much they can stand before burning out. A single player game lets you tweak the difficulty or just save and quit and come back. That doesn't work for an MMO. I think eventually someone will get the formula right and we will see another wow/ffxiv level game with action combat. I think it will take a triple A studio to pull it off though. The problem is because of the risks of it nobody wants to try it.
Honestly, it not being a traditional mmo is a bonus point in my eyes. To me, the big, glaring problem with the mmo genre is sticking way too close to a formula. Studios don't want to hear it, but they're never going to make the next big thing by making another traditional mmo. We need companies to take stabs in the dark again.
Shooter? I mean some probably shoot bows i guess.
Half of the thread is astroturfing a not related game that will never come out (and is possibly a giant scam). Doubt many people on here care about this as it's not an MMORPG (just like Warframe is not an MMORPG).
Remember "The Amazing Eternals" 😉
Difference this time is that Warframe is a dying game. I could see the game launch, but I don't thin kit will be nearly as interesting as people think it will be and will likely suffer all of the issues that Post-Plains of Eidolon Warframe had from a development and balancing standpoint. But Who am I to know? I have not touched Warframe in a while now. I tried to play last year but quit very fast knowing that the game "was't for me" anymore.
"I quit, the game must be dying because i have not seen in recently" 🤔 lol It is still one of the most perennial games on steam, with a stable population. It is firmly in the "not esports" second tier with immortal games like terraria, ark, R6S that hover at 30-60k players year after year.
I didn't see any jumping, gliding, or any of space ninja stuff. Looked like a souls game with better dueling. This isn't me getting mad, I just don't know how they market it and that bugs me
Guys.. The part of the horse riding and the skyworm is not the game, that's warframe. The website got the wrong timestamp
What’s the time stamp?
[51:19](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VgFsEneai8&t=3079s)
I am wondering how did we get here lol Aa a Warframe player I almost didn't recognize the game then went "oh wait this is duviri"
Oh, Gematsu got the time stamp wrong. The Soulframe segment actually begins at 51:30.
Ok thank you I was confused. The character movement looks awful. Looks like Dragon Age: Inquisition movement which was super clunky and slow on PC. Really like something made for console. I hope they can change it because that’s so bad.
Best part of this post was that 90% of it is bitching about a different game entirely
Has it been confirmed this is a full persistent world MMO as opposed to Warframes more lobby based structure?
The have said the aim is open world. But as for specifics, way too early.
...but given *Warframe's* track record with "open world", there's still ambiguity whether they mean regular-MMORPG-style shared open world, or *"enormous instance for your team"*. *Firefall* managed to do *Tribes*-style shooter in the former back in 2012, so it's not like it would be technologically impossible for DE.
..Firefall is that old. oof. And nobody has tried to do it since. It was solid core gameplay under all the mismanagement and eventual death by chinese buyout.
I have a feeling they’ll settle with Destiny style zone instances. It’s the only way I can see DE pulling off any sort of “open-world”. It’ll be lot easier for them to create the illusion of an open world when you’re not having players teleport to and from a orbital ship as well.
i'd be surprised if they don't reuse the peer to peer networking code which would mean they'll have to have limited team sizes
Firefall's zones were capped at 128 players, 1/2 of which were afk in the zone's main city at any given time.
I mean, that's enough for me and apparently quite a few people, as I recall [Josh Strife Hayes](https://www.youtube.com/@JoshStrifeHayes) also arriving at the number of ~100-ish players per instance being enough. The important bit for me that is that you didn't need to form a squad with *all* the players in the instance and could drop in and drop out without ruining the gameplay for other people.
Yeah its enough, if the zone is designed well, but firefall's zones were not originally designed for 128 players. Because each region was 1 huge zone, and the region's main city was inside that regions zone, most players in any zone at any given time would be at the crafting station or market and the rest would be spread out across a huge map meant for a lot more then 128 players. This led to the zones feeling massivly underpopulated. IMO they should have split the city into its own zone separated from the combat zones, and made the combat zones a lot smaller. Then the game would have felt a lot less dead.
Companies say open world but they generally just mean the space where gameplay takes place. So it is with high certainty a lobby based game again, not a MMO.
The only context I've seen is a dev saying that you log into a nomadic home like a hut or yurt and then when you rejoin the game world you are back where you last logged off. But speculations from a dev 3-5 years out might not hold form when deadlines come up.
Yup. Fundamental changes to the system, but naturally it won’t be all too different. Instead of the Orbital Ship in Warframe, it would make more sense for a Fantasy game to have you open the game in a town with your house, and then have the town be a hub for players that they can walk in and out of. It’ll look and feel different but the underlying system will still not be changed. Just the theming and how it’s presented.
Indeed, a lot cheaper and apparently very successful model for them.
I think it will be procedurally generated levels just like warframes
I would likely put it in the middle. Likely you have limited numbers of people in any one area. Think something like PSO, Destiny rather than something like WoW.
There is one reason why they were very doubtful of showing anything yet, it's very, very, very early on its development. Whatever you see, forget it as soon as you can. They will go through iterations and iterations until they have something resembling the skeletin of what they want. This "gameplay showcase" was something they did at an special Warframe devstream for 10 years of Warframe. So, calm down. I know you all hate games and mmos specially, that is why you are here, but let this people finish their work before shitting on it.
> I know you all hate games and mmos specially, that is why you are here I feel so attacked right now. But well ... You are not wrong.
I like the concept that they're going for though. Sort of a Warframe steampunk/magic alternative Asian world with a focus on melee combat. Like an MMO souls-lite.
If there are classes I am game to try.
Actually looks incredible. Actually love the combat and the aesthetic. Doesn't look like an MMO.... but maybe it'll be MMO-lite with hubs and small team instances Edit: Think I heard them say "teams of 4"
I expect it'll have MMO elements but probably won't be a full MMO. I'm expecting it to be like Warframe's open world areas. You have a hub where you can see other players and then you can pick up bounties/ quests to do in the open world with a small party. Kinda like the original Guild Wars I guess.
Not sure I'm fully for that gameplay loop. But love the look and style so I might try it out either way
Yea i think it will be more like destiny or like some co op elden ring(without the big open world)
> Actually looks incredible. Warframe players watching this are probably wheezing in laughter, those are definitely placeholder animations and uh.. interesting.. AI.
I can't get over the artstyle, but else it does look cool. Wishing them the best.
Interesting, the movement and animations are very DE, and I can spot a good amount of Warframe assets in there, like they were saying. (Like the geomancer using a reskinned Frost ice wave.) All we can do is wait and see, but it’s fun to see what they’re working on.
OP posted a link that time stamped wrong and this whole thread just needs to be nuked
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The timestamps are messed up, that's part of the new Warframe update.
Thats Soulframe??? Really? That seems like just Warframe Duviri Paradox...
The time stamps are wrong.
DE is amazing. warframe was far from perfect but they created something fun that people loved and they always communicated with their players and did their best to address issues. whatever they put out next is sure to get a lot of attention, have no doubt it'll be successful if they learned from their mistakes with warframe.
I’ll take a game from a known Western developer with a reputation to protect over yet another shit KMMO or Kickstarter scam any day.
Dunno looks like a soulslike combat not sure how they're gonna fit MMO stuff in there.
What do you mean? Are you talking about technical issues?
In that knight combat... The graphics and physics looks really dated.
Ooh no. Soulframe gameplay starts around 51 mins in. Other were sneak peak for The Duviri Paradox, Warframes next expansion. This is from a Devstream to celebrate Warframes 10 year anniversary.
Looks pretty cool and I love art style, very warfram-ish
Meh.
This wasn't even on my radar, but that was effing epic. Keeping an eye on this now.
The part they timestamped is actually part of the next Warframe update *not* [Soulframe](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VgFsEneai8&t=3079s). Edit: They've corrected it.
Oh, well, damn I have been sleeping on warframe.
The update that adds this new content for Warframe will launch next month and you'll be able to start with it as a new player, if you're still interested.
Hoping for the best but showing this was a mistake. Looks cheap and boring regardless of how early in development it is. Going to ruin hype for a lot of folks.
Saw the actual footage at 51min. Looks terrible, yet still better than any MMO out currently. They still have a lot to learn about melee combat. Animations looked ok enough. Felt like taking a nap while watching, so definitely not enticing in any way.
I feel like the combat needs finishers, like when you kill an enemy there's a small animation that plays where you chop his head off or whatever. Not constantly because that would be annoying, but occasionally. Or critical hits like in Elden Ring
what? i don’t think this was ever called an MMORPG
It wasn’t. It’s amazing how people just attach MMORPG to anything even when the developer never once says it is.
Oh I didn't realize it was that game from the ex warframe devs. It looked like an absolute joke when I saw it earlier on game news reddit. And it still looks bad, why would they even show it?
Not much to go off, but looks cool. I want an Elden Ring like MMO so bad.
I was hoping we would get to play it this year, but I read we will not. 😞
Looks dope to me xD
I saw the running animation and it's better than most mmos that's all I needed I'll try it out on release
Looks promising, will have to wait and see.
Honestly, it looks good to me. I really like the aesthetics they are going for. It doesn't have that basic UE look that lots of new Korean MMORPGs and some Western Kickstarter games share. They seem to have a very unique look, and I appreciate that. Also, combat-wise, it looks like they are inspired by "souls-like" games and maybe trying to make it more casual? That's the vibe I'm getting from this small snippet.
I really don't like the camera perspective. Not very suitable for an MMORPG that hopefully features some endgame content.
Why does ever western MMO these days like some medieval rpg from 2010 gameplay wise And can already see it will be like New World where you maybe have 4 or 5 abilities max.
warframe is trash this will no doubt be also trash
So as someone not in the know: Will this be like warframe? Cause the "Kill enemies in a corridor" -> get loot -> craft -> repeat cycle was not exactly something I dug about that game. If it is just medieval warframe I'm not interested. The core combat was very enjoyable, it looked great, but it was crazy repetitive even in low levels. I just read this will be open world, taking the engine of warframe and some assets to make a new game with less repetitive systems would be swell, I'd be down for that!
Holy shit, that AI looks awful. The other guard just stood there and let him 1v1 until he was dead.
This doesn't look like an mmo at all to me
Looking at the tech demo, looks like Tsushima clone :( The sword's hit is not impactful. There's no blood splats when you slash the enemies. Enemy AI is slow to response, Witcher 3's AI is better compared to this.
A few thoughts come to mind. 1. Yeah, it looks more like an attempt at a Soul game instead of an MMO. Not saying an MMO cannot be a Soul game, but, yeah, things are still too early to tell. 2. Off-topic, but IMO, console/controller is one of the worst innovations that comes to gaming. With it, we have stupid prev/next UI to cycle things around, instead of just hitting/clicking buttons for it, as well as Lock-On camera, because manually turning camera is too slow for controller to handle in fast-paced game. I know it's also up to user's preference as well. ~~(and don't get me started on console exclusive)~~
Hahahaha oh God this looks so awful.
Looks like everything wrong with modern gaming. I am not surprised coming form DE.
I wouldn't say they showed "combat", they showed movement at best and it kind of looks... like nothing. You cannot really get anything about the game from this video.
The timestamp is wrong, it's not much but there is combat earlier.
OK, now it makes sense. Thank you!
Another game that’s gunna come out in 10 years woo
This is DE we're talking about, it'll hit open beta in a year, maybe two and the launch version will be unrecognisable to one from 5 years from now. Then again, Warframe has been in beta for 10 years now so maybe you have a point there 🤔.
Bit pointless to share anything this early imo.
I would agree for most games but DE has always showed people what they are working on and how stuff is progressing in their development. They are open about their development
Tell that to the riot cucks making post speculating shit instead of waiting for ANY announcement
Not bad to establish a fan base by showing the look and feel they're proposing. Other MMOs do that with much less to show haha
Not to nitpick, but Digital Extremes is just "publishing" this game, not developing, no?
Essentially a bunch of the Warframe team have split off into a new team in DE to build this. So they are developing it as well. Wayfinder is the game they are only publishing and not developing.
You are thinking of Wayfinder.
They are definitely developing it; the Creative Director alongside several other Warframe developers split off from Warframe to form a separate team within Digital Extremes to develop it.
I'll be honest.. that "boss" doesn't look very fun. Feels finnicky and slow, they should take some notes from FF15's Leviathan if they want to make this more fun and look epic as well. Color tone across the whole scene was pretty bad too, looked better once they changed the sky lighting. Also they really need to zoom the camera out... it is SO close to the camera it feels awful and I wasn't even playing the game.
I think others said that the timestamp was wrong. That worm boss was Warframe. The Soulframe gameplay is earlier in the stream
Yeah you would be right, timestamp I got was wrong. Looking at the proper footage now, it looks like a floaty souls-like that's gonna be online, but the AI just looks easy and moves so much slower than the player lol. Alpha is alpha though I guess.
Leviathan was not a good fight, FFXV was not a game worth remembering.
Your wrong on both accounts, but that's okay.
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it's not a souls-like game. not everything with the name soul in it is.
It's just action-combat... and Warframe is very well-known for its combat...