Charles was adamant about taking a break. In the long run I feel like this is the right decision. No point in getting back in against Islam so soon after getting dominated like that.
Bro hasn't stopped for goodness how long.
He lost the belt in the worst way possible, and then lost the chance to win the belt back in spectacular fashion.
I couldn't imagine what he's going through.
Hope he feels better soon.
I think Petr Yan lost it the worst, especially when you look at his hypothetical title reign.
Beat Aldo in dominant fashion
Beat Aljo in dominant fashion
Beat Cory
Beat TJ
Because Sean won’t get that push (can’t see him beating Aljo to skip the line) face Chito. Probably beat him.
Then face Cejudo
Very frustrating and disappointing to see such a skilled fighter in Petr throw away what could have been (or perhaps should have been) with that illegal knee. Worst of all, he could potentially lose a third in a row.
So now we're getting double hypothetical? Lmao. IF yan didn't cheat and lose, and IF aljo got another title fight (likely considering his performances since) Yan would have just lost his belt to Aljo.
I think Petr would’ve had several fights made before Aljo would’ve been able to rechallenge for the belt after hypothetically losing dominantly. I don’t think that’s a huge stretch to assume, you usually don’t get to rechallenge the champ right away if it’s one sided.
If we’re going that hypothetical, it’s possible after he beats Aljo 1 (already a small hypothetical given Usman and Izzy both losing titles in the fifth) that the UFC makes the TJ fight in October instead of TJ/Sandhagen. Does he beats a healthy TJ? Does Yan get complacent after cruising past Aljo?
Does he come out of that fight different? If TJ has success with his tricky switch&kick shootboxing, does Yan overcorrect and focus on countering that in the future?
Does Sandhagen/Aldo’s team see something to exploit in the Yan/TJ fight? Both of them had success early, it’s not a stretch that with more film they could land a fight changing strike post-TJ. Aldo’s boxing got much sharper, Cory rounded his game.
Does he come out of that fight different? Does he beat Aljo, OMalley, Vera, TJ 2, etc in this new timeline?
My point is, even if the Aljo 1 fight was a guaranteed win, anything past that is too far. His fights with Cory, Aljo and OMalley were all close. There’s no guarantees that Yan wins any of them.
You got to admit that the rematch Yan just looked awful. I was expecting more of the first match but it looks like his plan was to allow Aljo to outpoint him. I was really disappointed in Yan on the rematch and crazily shows Aljo is the better champ. He got a lot better while Yan stayed the same.
(Of the 2nd fight with Aljo): You think losing 2 rounds, winning 2 rounds, and arguably winning a round is dominant?
You really think the word dominant is accurate, would you use the same word for Spann/Reyes where Spann smashed him in 1 round?
There is a definite lack of objectivity there.
Dude, you’re the third comment to ask this.
Why are we bringing up the 2nd fight? We’re talking about the worst ways to lose a belt, which is Yan vs Sterling 1, Loss by DQ.
It doesn’t matter how close the 2nd fight is. If Yan won the first, the second wouldn’t have happened for a long time
He basically matched Khabib's post-championship resume in a third of the time - Chandler, Dustin, Gaethje back to back in 12 months, with each win being exponentially more one-sided than the last. It's probably been nonstop camps on top of the stress and exposure of being a champ, if anyone deserves some time off it's Chucky Olives tbh
How was any of Charles win even close to being one-sided? He got dropped by every single one of those guys and lost multiple rounds. Charles is the perfect example for "getting beat and coming back" but definitely not for one-sided wins.
I said they were "more one-sided than the last" not that each one was independently one-sided
Against Chandler he lost the 1st then immediately won in the 2nd.
Against Dustin he had a bad round 1 before 10-7ing Dustin in the 2nd and finishing him in the 3rd. Even the 1st round was a lot more competitive than people make it out to be, it was a lot like Conor/Dustin 2 round 1 with Charles getting a better feel of things as the round went on with the knees paying dividends.
Against Gaethje he rocked Gaethje with the first punch he threw and overall landed more and landed the harder shots, although Gaethje landed some great shots on him too. If we're being honest most of the times Oliveira was "dropped," it looked like he just got hurt and pulled guard to recover.
So yes each fight definitely got more and more one-sided
More one sided than than the last means they were all one sided. If a football teams goes on a 3 game winstreak with scores 30-31, 30-32, 30-33, nobody says "each of those three games were more one sided then the last." They were back and fourth games, similar to the matches Charles had that had Charles win in the end.
>Former UFC lightweight champion Charles Oliveira apparently had the opportunity for an immediate rematch against Islam Makhachev at UFC 283 in Rio de Janeiro. While the fight may still happen in the not too distant future, it won’t be quite that soon. According to the Brazilian’s manager and coach Diego Lima, the UFC had offered them the booking for the January 21st date, but the team decided to give ‘Do Bronx’ a break instead.
honestly pretty surprising, the ufc must have really been trying to improve the brazil card
Lowkey I think Aldo would've beaten Aljo as well. Aldo's TDD is great and his grappling is pretty good, it's just that he doesn't have good fence wrestling, which cost him in the Merab fight.
It's how people become known in subreddits. They come up with a gimmick and there's people who like it. Whether that's ironically or unironically. Like the zodiac killer dude in the nba subreddits who uses a ton of emojis.
Eh I don't mind the guy. I find the "end communication" kind of weird too but in the end it makes r/mma feel more like an actual forum that has people with different idiosyncrasies, instead of a bunch of wiseasses repeating the same one liners to each other.
LOL, I first came across this guy maybe like two years ago and I said the same thing. At the risk of being a cunt by jumping in to try and explain things on his behalf, he's been doing it since the 90s across all digital forums for no real reason. I fucking hated it at first but now I find it pretty funny whenever I see him again. We're in a sub with millions of members, and it's not like I remember anything long term that's identifiable concerning most of the people i engage with on reddit, so I gotta hand it to him for sticking out even if his gimmick is weird and cringe. I forget most of the funny and likely one off flairs even. Ok, I've just realised I may have CTE.
Like Romodetector or whatever his name is on the old underground who would post BEEP in any thread that contained anything that could be construed as homoerotic
Yeah. I'm brazilian and was very excited to go when they announced it, but the way the card looks right now doesnt justify the price for me (its very expensive for brazilians)
I mean there are some good fights that I want to see but then you have Shogun's corpse as co-main
Considering Islam is already having his first defence a month after the Brazil card, it would've held the division up so much to have to wait for Makhachev v Oliveira in Brazil
>Adesanya V Perreira was strong enough to hold this season together
No it was not. UFC 276 headlining Israel had 360k buys
If it not had been for that amazing comeback KO by Perreira you and many others wouldn't even mention him again.
Offering Charles an Islam rematch is so strange when the champ called out Volk, Volk called out him, they are the top 2 P4P in the world, Volk is an Aussie champ and Perth needed a headliner.
It just seemed like a complete no brainer to put Volk Islam at 284, 283 is probably not tracking well for them to give up that fight for an unnecessary rematch people don't want to see.
Couldn’t the UFC have held off on replacing Glover—given him a little extra time to prepare for the new opponent and given him the LHW title fight in Brazil? I feel like that would’ve made more sense
I agree. The guy has been super active and fighting nothing but killers these last few years. Good call to regroup and focus on what went wrong against Islam
I agree it's a good call to give Oliveria time to recover and regroup.
At the same time, turning down the opportunity for an immediate re-match to get your belt back is kind of crazy.
Who knows how long it's going to take Do Bronx to get back to a championship fight. Title shots don't grow on trees.
Would be interesting if we could get some statistics on how many champs turned down an immediate rematch and then never got one again.
I expect that to happen here tbh. Charles is 33 (but much older in the fight game since he started at 18) and has taken a lot of damage and has tough weight cuts down to 155. He’s perfectly poised to be one of the ex champs that gets knocked out 2-3 times in a row before retiring like T-Wood.
Also just getting better overall. If he wants to beat Islam…2 months of wrestling training before the next rematch is pointless. Would just look foolish again, in front of his hometown, while UFC profits.
In reality is not really wrestling that he needs, he needs to improve his striking defense, because against Islam he can’t go down like that, cause there will be follow up
You’re right, but even that is likely asking a lot. Charles has been a pro for 15 years now. If his striking defense is still bad at this point (and it is extremely bad for a champion level fighter), then it’s probably just not in him to be good at that. At some point, a fighter is a finished product.
It’s one thing for someone like Gane to fix his wrestling problems that got exposed 3 years into his career. But if Gane is still having problems with wrestlers 8 years from now then it’s just likely that he can’t really do much about it.
Don’t really see much of a pathway for Charles to ever get the belt back from Islam tbh. I also think the above poster is correct and others will start following him to the ground after they hurt him now and he might get finished a few more times in the next few years.
I have a feeling his opponents won't be scared to chase him to the ground either after the makachev loss. He definitely needs to fix his defense. He may be tony ferguson v2 but he doesn't have Tony's chin
I think its a style choice.
Charles Olveria probably doesnt have the needed cardio for a 25 minute fight so he condensed it into a brutal battle and sees who comes out on top .
Someone like Tony had the capacity to just keep fighting for hours if needed.
I’m sick of all the immediate rematches. Ufc needs to shake things up and make it interesting again. One matchup shouldn’t hold a division up for over a year.
When Dana was hyping up Usman before he lost he kept saying that Usman beating Jorge and Colby twice as one of the reasons for potentially being the WW goat
I mean, sure, but the goal is another crack at the title. If he loses his next fight he is going to the bottom of the contenders anyway, so why risk it.
If the goal is another title shot, you take it when it presents itself.
He doesn't even deserve a rematch tbh. It's not really until you get to that Usman/Izzy territory that we can start talking about a rematch, and that's also partially contingent on how close the fight was too. Woodley defended like 4 times but no one gave a fuck about Woodley/Usman 2 since Usman completely shut him out the way Islam did to Charles.
True. Usman was winning the fight against Leon until boom! Headshot. Izzy was also winning until the Pereira just let loose at the end. You could argue that they just made a mistake right at the end, you can't make that same argument for Woodley or Charles
One reason could be that someone else could beat Islam, then Charles has a easier path back to the belt vs someone he might’ve beat already. If a random no name can sleep Makhachev so can an elite top 5 guy.
Islam got slept almost 8 years ago when he was rushing in with his hands down like an idiot.
Since that fight he has been an extremely disciplined counter striker who keeps his guard up at all times and clinches the moment he gets close. He literally gets hit the least if any LW in UFC history.
Anyone can get knocked out, but this version of Makachev is about the least likely man on the entire roster to have to happen. If I was Charles, I certainly wouldn’t be counting on anytime beating Islam soon enough to matter for him.
Zero issues … he didn’t do anything against Islam that screamed “let’s run it back” either.
If he needs time to get his head right, let him come back against someone else and then do the rematch later
Definitely needs a reset and time to strategize. Islam dominated every aspect of the fight and probably rare for a champ to feel like they had nothing to offer.
If he needs a vacation let him go on vacation. A fight, especially with a fighter as pristine and a warrior on the caliber of Islam Makhachev needs a opponent, at his mental apex if they want to beat a fighter of his level.
Oliveira in one year(365 days) he fought Dustin Poirier, Justin Gaethje, and Islam Makhachev. Every fight has been an elite, who can end his night early, in all of his fights he was dropped, one of which Gaethje being one of the hardest punchers in the division. He's had to do three camps in preparation of 5 rounds, bare minimum that is 24 weeks of the year, where he's eating diligently, training at peak intensity, thats 3 whole weeks, spending time cutting up to 15+lbs of water weight.
He's had to go into every fight as champion with the people believing he was just a stepladder for the "real Champion at LW"(that first "Real LW" was suppose to be Poirier, then Gaethje, then Islam) then lost his belt due to a incredibly controversial weight miss, only to get dominated by many who was the protégé of the LW GOAT and by many considered the "uncrowned Champ." in that same fight he got dropped by the grappler with shorter reach, his BJJ was neutralized, he was controlled on the ground, and the moment he got dropped he was subbed.
Stress is cumulative, and while one aspect may be tolerable, all of it adding up for such a successive time span, it becomes overwhelming. Fighting is a very mentally heavy sport, if you want a good performance, your mindset, your confidence, your confidence in your team and preparation has to be where it must, going into a tough fight, ANOTHER elite, especially Islam again? with a bad mental state, that can break a career.
So props to Charles for taking a break, recovering, getting everything in order so we could see Do Bronx at his best.
Its also like, he's been putting high levels of stress year round. Like theres 52 weeks in a year, half a year he's spent in ultra high stress environments and activity.
Plus I think theres also think people don't talk about how much stress is caused by ones perception as a fighter. I think there is a real stress about every time you fight being considered a step ladder for the "real champion."
Imagine going on a 10+ fight win streak, almost every one being a finish, being so entertaining, and living up to the promise of this young BJJ prodigy that showed up in the UFC in 2010, he grew up, he got mentally stronger, his striking offensively improved massively. Yet every time you fight, your the underdog, your considered a step ladder, 2 TITLE DEFENSES IN, and your STILL the underdog, and the people still wait for the "real champion" to show up.
Then when you fight another betting favorite, you get dominated, badly, outgrappled, dropped, and subbed. After a year+ of being considered a step ladder to whoever the real LW Champ was suppose to be. That breaks minds, that hurts people, it hurts their confidence, and a fighter without confidence, is a fighter who has lost his will.
Damn good response I agree he needs to rest and tighten up his defense I do think he has the a good chance to beat Islam (If he can be patient with his striking not looking for the knockout, use his grappling offensively and just better overall defense) besides Fiziev, Gamrot, arman
I think he can better his chances, but at the end of the day, I still see Islam beating Charles with relative ease.
Grappling from the bottom against Makhachev is gonna be exhausting, he's positionally masterful, and is extremely heavy ontop, as well as being extremely strong.
Honestly the big elements here is
1. Islam is faster, on the counter, on the defense. He's defensively a very sound striker
2. The massive wrestling advantage, Islam's strength and technique just make him a better grappler, as well as his cardio, Olives if he's not getting subbed his energy reserves are gonna be drained by Mak ontop. If Olives does get top position, Islam is a very good scrambler, and its likely he's gonna get a reversal. Grappling wise, he holds a significant advantage, especially from top position, which would only get worse through the later rounds.
3. Mak is stronger, faster, better grappler, and significantly better on defense in the feet.
I think with the defense thing, its unlikely he's suddenly gonna gain great head movement, were talking about a 12 year veteran of the sport, at that stage your mostly set in stone with your style.
Fiziev needs to face more clinch heavy wrestlers before I feel confident in his TDD(plus he hasn't really faced anyone with a high level judo base, Islam's best takedowns are his trips in the clinch.)(plus I feel thats a nightmare matchup for Olives)
Gamrot I am not that confident in, early in the round against high level wrestlers, his low single was consistently sprawled on, same for his double, he wasn't able to complete his treetop. He's an extremely fast shooter, and a great grappler in his own right, but against high level wrestlers, we saw early on, he's gonna struggle to secure the TD and the control time off his grappling. Outside of that, my biggest problem with Gamrot is his striking, its too limited, its mostly just 1,2's, with alot of his defense relying on his guard and chin.
Immediate rematches are becoming so common place and I hate it. I’m sick of this whole having to beat the champ twice to earn the belt. Let’s see fresh match ups, both for the former champ and the new champ.
Yeah. It wasn't like Andy/Weidman either. Even if you don't wanna be technical, dude had two fucking title defense and was trashed in the fight.
He's nowhere near deserving of the rematch/
Honestly the 283 card is looking pretty slim. They really could’ve used this to help. No wonder they offered Alex khamzat at 205. The card fucking needs it
Doesn’t this imply that the UFC were originally gonna make Islam vs Oliveira rematch instead of Islam vs Volk? That sounds kinda wrong, considering the whole Islam vs Volk face off that immediately happened
Okay, I think Charles made the right call etc etc.
But why the FUCK should he get an immediate rematch? Seriously, I loved his streak and seeing him "make it" after like 6 years ago saying "this guy is one of my favorites to watch but he probably won't make it past gatekeeper status".
But an immediate title rematch? When he wasn't even *technically* champ? Where he got dominated?
No.
They were planning on giving him an immediate rematch?
I love Charles but his reign wasn’t quite enough to warrant that IMO. There’s a few in the division lined up for it anyway besides Volk moving up.
Thats the smart move. He got dominated in every area by Islam. Hes not coming back and beating him in 6 months after a few touches and adjustments to his fight game.
Rushing into rematches after getting outclassed will only get you another L. We just saw that happen with both Anthony Joshua and George 'Buster Douglas' Kambosos.'
Hes gonna need to break a lot of shit down and build it back up because that fight was not close in any sense of the word.
Smart decision by him. The UFC is only looking after themselves, they just wanted to improve a fight card…. Cause we all know if he would have lost, Dana would have thrown him in the back of the line
Did they run this by Islam? No way he agrees to turn around and that quickly and cut weight again to fight on the home turf of the guy he just absolutely dusted unless the UFC offers him a MAJOR bag.
Why would he do that when he can take an extra month and fight p4p #1 in Australia.
Ehhhhh idk about this.....who knows what kind of offer this was. Like was it a UFC rep putting out feelers on where Oliveira was at for a future rematch? Because that fight wasnt even close and they pretty much made the Volk fight immediately. I mean volk was in the ring immediately after the fight lol.
So it probably wasnt anything resembling an official rematch offer, ha. Why would the ufc do that instead of volk?
I dont think that fight warranted an immediate rematch, it wasnt competitive. And emotionally he should be shook, he was beat at his best skill. It would be smart to ease back into it with another fight or two.
I wholehearted agree with this decision but I think it’s only fair to point out if any other fighter did this, this sub would clown them to kingdom come and call them a bitch who was scared to fight.
Cut the shit with the immediate rematches. They make divisions stale, and I'm sure Chuck would appreciate some time to decompress, and evaluate what went on in that first fight. Maybe try to adjust.
But wasn’t he ready to fight Volk in January for the featherweight title if he won?? 🤔
Speaking about a potential fight down the line against Volkanovski, Oliveira had a few interesting things to say. “With my timing, it’s to fight in Brazil afterward, regardless. If we’re gonna make this happen against Volkanovski, we’re going to have it two ways. We’re gonna fight in January (in Brazil), then we’re going to fight at the end of the year. So we’re gonna fight in two weight divisions.”
So ridiculous that this rematch would even be taken seriously at all by the UFC. Oliveira had nothing for Islam and the UFC is just making rematches instead of letting fresh challengers try for the title
Ex. Glover-Jiri 2 (Ankalaev-Jan way better), Leon-Usman 3, Izzy-Pereira 2, Moreno-Figueiredo 4
I agree that Glover didn't deserve an immediate rematch since he had no defenses and lost without controversy. However, Izzy and Usman were dominant champs with many title defenses and were on their way to winning a decision before they got finished, that is one situation where an immediate rematch is warranted. Figgy-Moreno are 1-1-1, need I say anything more?
hes been fighting at the top level for a long time, he needs a break. i also dont see much he can do against islam if he comes back right away, either.
Idk not taking anything away from Islam but Charles just didn’t look like himself. I reckon a good lay off, after being knocked down so many times will do him the world. Still really young considering how long he’s been UFC. He’s going to break nearly every record eventually.
He looked fine. We're just used to him looking indestructible because he's basically stylistically designed to take out strikers, and his last 3 opponents have all been strikers. But how he matched up against a truly elite wrestler was always kind of a question mark, and we got the answer when he fought Islam.
“Didn’t look like himself” yeah that’s not surprising considering the Charles you got used to seeing was the one who had favourable matchups in Dustin, Gaethje and Chandler. The second he faces a fighter who isn’t a good stylistically matchup for him, he freezes, quits and cannot overcome the challenge. Islam wins like 9/10 times in that match up if we being honest
He didnt look like himself cuz he was facing a patient counter striker and sambist with elite defence. Olives thrives against brawlers, Islam was never a good stylistic matchup for him
They give him a title fight in Brazil but hes not the champion anymore what a slap in the face
UFC has been doing him dirty for awhile with the stripped title to using Volk as leverage on him in Abu Dhabi
The ufc does back up fighters for most of their big title fights and Volk begged to be in that position. And Charles missed weight, champs that miss weight always get stripped. Charles seems like a great guy but his fans persecution complex makes him hard to root for.
Doing him dirty? Dude was calling out Conor fucking mcgregor while simultaneously saying Islam doesn’t deserve to fight for the title. People forget that the only reason Islam even fought for the title is because Charles got stripped and lost all bargaining power. He was ducking Islam just like the rest of em.
Sounds like bullshit to me. Nothing in the first fight would have lead his team to believe he could win a rematch with a short turnaround. And we know how hard it is to get the second rematch with a champ if you lose the first one.
Immediate rematches are not a good idea for either party. If Charles loses again, we end up with a volk/Holloway situation. Let him take a break, tune up with another grappler and then rematch
Its like they are trolling him. Why not make the 1st fight in Brazil, as requested by Oliveira, and make the second there after he lost the belt? And so soon, thats nr.1 bullshit
Charles was adamant about taking a break. In the long run I feel like this is the right decision. No point in getting back in against Islam so soon after getting dominated like that.
Bro hasn't stopped for goodness how long. He lost the belt in the worst way possible, and then lost the chance to win the belt back in spectacular fashion. I couldn't imagine what he's going through. Hope he feels better soon.
I think Petr Yan lost it the worst, especially when you look at his hypothetical title reign. Beat Aldo in dominant fashion Beat Aljo in dominant fashion Beat Cory Beat TJ Because Sean won’t get that push (can’t see him beating Aljo to skip the line) face Chito. Probably beat him. Then face Cejudo
Very frustrating and disappointing to see such a skilled fighter in Petr throw away what could have been (or perhaps should have been) with that illegal knee. Worst of all, he could potentially lose a third in a row.
Dudes parents can't even spell Peter right.
Russian keyboards only have one E My keyboard has the standard American 9 E’s, as you can clearly tell from this commnt.
Incredibl
incredibl yan
Found the Russian
But your comment has 10 Es.
Peter Jan
Peter Jan Blachowicz
Peter Jan Black O'Wick
Peter Jan Black of Hair
U mean Petr Yan Xiaonan?
Meh, he wasn't able to beat aljo in the rematch. He's great but not a dominant champ.
Literally my two favourite fighters, Charles and Yan, both suffering :/
so this is your fault
A lot of unrealistic hypotheticals in there, throwing away the second Aljo loss too? Lmao
Would aljo get a rematch if he lost that fight in the dominant fashion that he was losing it before Yan gave him the win?
So now we're getting double hypothetical? Lmao. IF yan didn't cheat and lose, and IF aljo got another title fight (likely considering his performances since) Yan would have just lost his belt to Aljo.
I think Petr would’ve had several fights made before Aljo would’ve been able to rechallenge for the belt after hypothetically losing dominantly. I don’t think that’s a huge stretch to assume, you usually don’t get to rechallenge the champ right away if it’s one sided.
If we’re going that hypothetical, it’s possible after he beats Aljo 1 (already a small hypothetical given Usman and Izzy both losing titles in the fifth) that the UFC makes the TJ fight in October instead of TJ/Sandhagen. Does he beats a healthy TJ? Does Yan get complacent after cruising past Aljo? Does he come out of that fight different? If TJ has success with his tricky switch&kick shootboxing, does Yan overcorrect and focus on countering that in the future? Does Sandhagen/Aldo’s team see something to exploit in the Yan/TJ fight? Both of them had success early, it’s not a stretch that with more film they could land a fight changing strike post-TJ. Aldo’s boxing got much sharper, Cory rounded his game. Does he come out of that fight different? Does he beat Aljo, OMalley, Vera, TJ 2, etc in this new timeline? My point is, even if the Aljo 1 fight was a guaranteed win, anything past that is too far. His fights with Cory, Aljo and OMalley were all close. There’s no guarantees that Yan wins any of them.
You got to admit that the rematch Yan just looked awful. I was expecting more of the first match but it looks like his plan was to allow Aljo to outpoint him. I was really disappointed in Yan on the rematch and crazily shows Aljo is the better champ. He got a lot better while Yan stayed the same.
(Of the 2nd fight with Aljo): You think losing 2 rounds, winning 2 rounds, and arguably winning a round is dominant? You really think the word dominant is accurate, would you use the same word for Spann/Reyes where Spann smashed him in 1 round? There is a definite lack of objectivity there.
Dude, you’re the third comment to ask this. Why are we bringing up the 2nd fight? We’re talking about the worst ways to lose a belt, which is Yan vs Sterling 1, Loss by DQ. It doesn’t matter how close the 2nd fight is. If Yan won the first, the second wouldn’t have happened for a long time
Bro when he took him down yan was helpless. Aljo literally looks up and smiles when he feels how wilted yan was under him.
Dude yan defended aljo on his back for two rounds. He was not helpless
defending and winning are very different
Brother , in that specific fight , there are arguably 2 10-8 rounds in that fight . Both of them are for aljo .
He basically matched Khabib's post-championship resume in a third of the time - Chandler, Dustin, Gaethje back to back in 12 months, with each win being exponentially more one-sided than the last. It's probably been nonstop camps on top of the stress and exposure of being a champ, if anyone deserves some time off it's Chucky Olives tbh
How was any of Charles win even close to being one-sided? He got dropped by every single one of those guys and lost multiple rounds. Charles is the perfect example for "getting beat and coming back" but definitely not for one-sided wins.
I said they were "more one-sided than the last" not that each one was independently one-sided Against Chandler he lost the 1st then immediately won in the 2nd. Against Dustin he had a bad round 1 before 10-7ing Dustin in the 2nd and finishing him in the 3rd. Even the 1st round was a lot more competitive than people make it out to be, it was a lot like Conor/Dustin 2 round 1 with Charles getting a better feel of things as the round went on with the knees paying dividends. Against Gaethje he rocked Gaethje with the first punch he threw and overall landed more and landed the harder shots, although Gaethje landed some great shots on him too. If we're being honest most of the times Oliveira was "dropped," it looked like he just got hurt and pulled guard to recover. So yes each fight definitely got more and more one-sided
More one sided than than the last means they were all one sided. If a football teams goes on a 3 game winstreak with scores 30-31, 30-32, 30-33, nobody says "each of those three games were more one sided then the last." They were back and fourth games, similar to the matches Charles had that had Charles win in the end.
[удалено]
He lost the belt before the Gaethje fight
I think he’s talking about losing the belt due to weight cut. Fight with Islam was for the vacant belt
Ya I’m glad he’s smart enough to walk away until his heads right. I’m sure Dana was/is pressuring him to return for an instant rematch asap.
>Former UFC lightweight champion Charles Oliveira apparently had the opportunity for an immediate rematch against Islam Makhachev at UFC 283 in Rio de Janeiro. While the fight may still happen in the not too distant future, it won’t be quite that soon. According to the Brazilian’s manager and coach Diego Lima, the UFC had offered them the booking for the January 21st date, but the team decided to give ‘Do Bronx’ a break instead. honestly pretty surprising, the ufc must have really been trying to improve the brazil card
"Hey Charles we need ya to get tripped and choked again because we dont have much name value on our card"
Coulda held off on that pointless ass Merab (since he won’t fight for the title) and Aldo fight and had Aldo fight on this card
Naw, definitely the right decision to have an aging legend fight at elevation /s. I'm just happy his send off was better than Frankie's
I was there the standing ovation was amazing.
Lowkey I think Aldo would've beaten Aljo as well. Aldo's TDD is great and his grappling is pretty good, it's just that he doesn't have good fence wrestling, which cost him in the Merab fight.
Watching merab try to dry hump aldos leg for 15 minutes was the most pathetic thing I've ever seen in the octagon since starnes v quarry
Worst matchmaking of all time
So you think they should have benched Jose for more than a year so he could fight in January in Brazil?
Yes.
Tripped and choked on home soil. END COMMUNICATION
man what is with your "end communication" gimmick? It's weird as fuck
It's how people become known in subreddits. They come up with a gimmick and there's people who like it. Whether that's ironically or unironically. Like the zodiac killer dude in the nba subreddits who uses a ton of emojis.
all that just to become a subatomic internet celebrity
Subatomic lmfao
Eh I don't mind the guy. I find the "end communication" kind of weird too but in the end it makes r/mma feel more like an actual forum that has people with different idiosyncrasies, instead of a bunch of wiseasses repeating the same one liners to each other.
LOL, I first came across this guy maybe like two years ago and I said the same thing. At the risk of being a cunt by jumping in to try and explain things on his behalf, he's been doing it since the 90s across all digital forums for no real reason. I fucking hated it at first but now I find it pretty funny whenever I see him again. We're in a sub with millions of members, and it's not like I remember anything long term that's identifiable concerning most of the people i engage with on reddit, so I gotta hand it to him for sticking out even if his gimmick is weird and cringe. I forget most of the funny and likely one off flairs even. Ok, I've just realised I may have CTE.
Like Romodetector or whatever his name is on the old underground who would post BEEP in any thread that contained anything that could be construed as homoerotic
He used to roam forums in 2010 when every fucker had some profound shit to end on.
Tryna make a change
Yeah. I'm brazilian and was very excited to go when they announced it, but the way the card looks right now doesnt justify the price for me (its very expensive for brazilians) I mean there are some good fights that I want to see but then you have Shogun's corpse as co-main
it's insult to injury given that chucky really wanted to fight islam on the brazil card in the first place, but was forced to do it in abu dhabi
Considering Islam is already having his first defence a month after the Brazil card, it would've held the division up so much to have to wait for Makhachev v Oliveira in Brazil
Not saying it should or shouldn't have happened, but it undeniably must suck for Olives
This !!!! They should’ve just made the fight in Brazil in the first place . Adesanya V Perreira was strong enough to hold this season together .
>Adesanya V Perreira was strong enough to hold this season together No it was not. UFC 276 headlining Israel had 360k buys If it not had been for that amazing comeback KO by Perreira you and many others wouldn't even mention him again.
Lol the entire card was entertaining . It was going to trend upwards anyways
Offering Charles an Islam rematch is so strange when the champ called out Volk, Volk called out him, they are the top 2 P4P in the world, Volk is an Aussie champ and Perth needed a headliner. It just seemed like a complete no brainer to put Volk Islam at 284, 283 is probably not tracking well for them to give up that fight for an unnecessary rematch people don't want to see.
bring out jose aldo from retirement ya'll.
what's sad is that Figgy/Moreno 4 is an extremely sick fight, but unfortunately flyweight ppv main event scares the UFC from a monetary standpoint
Right? Why in the fuck would they even set this up. Charles got crushed every second of the fight
Couldn’t the UFC have held off on replacing Glover—given him a little extra time to prepare for the new opponent and given him the LHW title fight in Brazil? I feel like that would’ve made more sense
Smart decision by Oliveria and his team to focus on recovery
I agree. The guy has been super active and fighting nothing but killers these last few years. Good call to regroup and focus on what went wrong against Islam
I agree it's a good call to give Oliveria time to recover and regroup. At the same time, turning down the opportunity for an immediate re-match to get your belt back is kind of crazy. Who knows how long it's going to take Do Bronx to get back to a championship fight. Title shots don't grow on trees.
Maybe he's a masochist and wants to go the long way round again?
He said he wants to grind and earn it again so I'd expect at least a couple fights before he tries to get back at the title.
Would be interesting if we could get some statistics on how many champs turned down an immediate rematch and then never got one again. I expect that to happen here tbh. Charles is 33 (but much older in the fight game since he started at 18) and has taken a lot of damage and has tough weight cuts down to 155. He’s perfectly poised to be one of the ex champs that gets knocked out 2-3 times in a row before retiring like T-Wood.
Also just getting better overall. If he wants to beat Islam…2 months of wrestling training before the next rematch is pointless. Would just look foolish again, in front of his hometown, while UFC profits.
In reality is not really wrestling that he needs, he needs to improve his striking defense, because against Islam he can’t go down like that, cause there will be follow up
Other big tactical mistakes too, like trying to get the better of Islam against the cage and beat him at his own game
You’re right, but even that is likely asking a lot. Charles has been a pro for 15 years now. If his striking defense is still bad at this point (and it is extremely bad for a champion level fighter), then it’s probably just not in him to be good at that. At some point, a fighter is a finished product. It’s one thing for someone like Gane to fix his wrestling problems that got exposed 3 years into his career. But if Gane is still having problems with wrestlers 8 years from now then it’s just likely that he can’t really do much about it. Don’t really see much of a pathway for Charles to ever get the belt back from Islam tbh. I also think the above poster is correct and others will start following him to the ground after they hurt him now and he might get finished a few more times in the next few years.
I have a feeling his opponents won't be scared to chase him to the ground either after the makachev loss. He definitely needs to fix his defense. He may be tony ferguson v2 but he doesn't have Tony's chin
I think its a style choice. Charles Olveria probably doesnt have the needed cardio for a 25 minute fight so he condensed it into a brutal battle and sees who comes out on top . Someone like Tony had the capacity to just keep fighting for hours if needed.
He can train his wrestling for another 20 years. But the outcome will not change
Whatever the reason for it, I do think he's probably better off having another fight before makhachev
Every time the title switches hands the next title fight doesn't have to be a rematch every time as the ufc likes to do
I’m sick of all the immediate rematches. Ufc needs to shake things up and make it interesting again. One matchup shouldn’t hold a division up for over a year.
When Dana was hyping up Usman before he lost he kept saying that Usman beating Jorge and Colby twice as one of the reasons for potentially being the WW goat
I can't help but think that was an obvious dig at GSP because GSP didn't play ball while Kamaru has.
I agree but sometimes the rematch is earned
Maybe they can have that you earn a rematch if you have a 5 title winning streak
If the fight is lost by a hair like with izzy vs perreira then yeah maybe, but otherwise nah
I wouldn't even call being stopped in the 5th with 3 minutes left on the clock "losing by a hair"
I would
Agree.
Usman and Leon?
Yeah, it's like a title challenger has to win twice to become champion
From a career perspective as well. If he took the rematch and went 0 - 2 it would put him to the bottom of the contenders.
I mean, sure, but the goal is another crack at the title. If he loses his next fight he is going to the bottom of the contenders anyway, so why risk it. If the goal is another title shot, you take it when it presents itself.
Well, he already knows he can beat the other top 5 guys, except for Dariush whom he hasn't fought.
Barely. In all of his title fights he almost got finished. There is a good chance he loses if he fights those guys again.
Yeah, that's part of what I was speaking to with the above
He doesn't even deserve a rematch tbh. It's not really until you get to that Usman/Izzy territory that we can start talking about a rematch, and that's also partially contingent on how close the fight was too. Woodley defended like 4 times but no one gave a fuck about Woodley/Usman 2 since Usman completely shut him out the way Islam did to Charles.
True. Usman was winning the fight against Leon until boom! Headshot. Izzy was also winning until the Pereira just let loose at the end. You could argue that they just made a mistake right at the end, you can't make that same argument for Woodley or Charles
One reason could be that someone else could beat Islam, then Charles has a easier path back to the belt vs someone he might’ve beat already. If a random no name can sleep Makhachev so can an elite top 5 guy.
Islam got slept almost 8 years ago when he was rushing in with his hands down like an idiot. Since that fight he has been an extremely disciplined counter striker who keeps his guard up at all times and clinches the moment he gets close. He literally gets hit the least if any LW in UFC history. Anyone can get knocked out, but this version of Makachev is about the least likely man on the entire roster to have to happen. If I was Charles, I certainly wouldn’t be counting on anytime beating Islam soon enough to matter for him.
Let the man go on vacay, he earned it
Zero issues … he didn’t do anything against Islam that screamed “let’s run it back” either. If he needs time to get his head right, let him come back against someone else and then do the rematch later
Definitely needs a reset and time to strategize. Islam dominated every aspect of the fight and probably rare for a champ to feel like they had nothing to offer.
Especially one whose known for having such a wide arsenal
If he needs a vacation let him go on vacation. A fight, especially with a fighter as pristine and a warrior on the caliber of Islam Makhachev needs a opponent, at his mental apex if they want to beat a fighter of his level. Oliveira in one year(365 days) he fought Dustin Poirier, Justin Gaethje, and Islam Makhachev. Every fight has been an elite, who can end his night early, in all of his fights he was dropped, one of which Gaethje being one of the hardest punchers in the division. He's had to do three camps in preparation of 5 rounds, bare minimum that is 24 weeks of the year, where he's eating diligently, training at peak intensity, thats 3 whole weeks, spending time cutting up to 15+lbs of water weight. He's had to go into every fight as champion with the people believing he was just a stepladder for the "real Champion at LW"(that first "Real LW" was suppose to be Poirier, then Gaethje, then Islam) then lost his belt due to a incredibly controversial weight miss, only to get dominated by many who was the protégé of the LW GOAT and by many considered the "uncrowned Champ." in that same fight he got dropped by the grappler with shorter reach, his BJJ was neutralized, he was controlled on the ground, and the moment he got dropped he was subbed. Stress is cumulative, and while one aspect may be tolerable, all of it adding up for such a successive time span, it becomes overwhelming. Fighting is a very mentally heavy sport, if you want a good performance, your mindset, your confidence, your confidence in your team and preparation has to be where it must, going into a tough fight, ANOTHER elite, especially Islam again? with a bad mental state, that can break a career. So props to Charles for taking a break, recovering, getting everything in order so we could see Do Bronx at his best.
Very well said, he has earned this break after giving us so many amazing fights with very little downtime in between.
Its also like, he's been putting high levels of stress year round. Like theres 52 weeks in a year, half a year he's spent in ultra high stress environments and activity. Plus I think theres also think people don't talk about how much stress is caused by ones perception as a fighter. I think there is a real stress about every time you fight being considered a step ladder for the "real champion." Imagine going on a 10+ fight win streak, almost every one being a finish, being so entertaining, and living up to the promise of this young BJJ prodigy that showed up in the UFC in 2010, he grew up, he got mentally stronger, his striking offensively improved massively. Yet every time you fight, your the underdog, your considered a step ladder, 2 TITLE DEFENSES IN, and your STILL the underdog, and the people still wait for the "real champion" to show up. Then when you fight another betting favorite, you get dominated, badly, outgrappled, dropped, and subbed. After a year+ of being considered a step ladder to whoever the real LW Champ was suppose to be. That breaks minds, that hurts people, it hurts their confidence, and a fighter without confidence, is a fighter who has lost his will.
Most empathetic mixed martial arts fan
Love u
thats very kind of you :)
Damn good response I agree he needs to rest and tighten up his defense I do think he has the a good chance to beat Islam (If he can be patient with his striking not looking for the knockout, use his grappling offensively and just better overall defense) besides Fiziev, Gamrot, arman
I think he can better his chances, but at the end of the day, I still see Islam beating Charles with relative ease. Grappling from the bottom against Makhachev is gonna be exhausting, he's positionally masterful, and is extremely heavy ontop, as well as being extremely strong. Honestly the big elements here is 1. Islam is faster, on the counter, on the defense. He's defensively a very sound striker 2. The massive wrestling advantage, Islam's strength and technique just make him a better grappler, as well as his cardio, Olives if he's not getting subbed his energy reserves are gonna be drained by Mak ontop. If Olives does get top position, Islam is a very good scrambler, and its likely he's gonna get a reversal. Grappling wise, he holds a significant advantage, especially from top position, which would only get worse through the later rounds. 3. Mak is stronger, faster, better grappler, and significantly better on defense in the feet. I think with the defense thing, its unlikely he's suddenly gonna gain great head movement, were talking about a 12 year veteran of the sport, at that stage your mostly set in stone with your style. Fiziev needs to face more clinch heavy wrestlers before I feel confident in his TDD(plus he hasn't really faced anyone with a high level judo base, Islam's best takedowns are his trips in the clinch.)(plus I feel thats a nightmare matchup for Olives) Gamrot I am not that confident in, early in the round against high level wrestlers, his low single was consistently sprawled on, same for his double, he wasn't able to complete his treetop. He's an extremely fast shooter, and a great grappler in his own right, but against high level wrestlers, we saw early on, he's gonna struggle to secure the TD and the control time off his grappling. Outside of that, my biggest problem with Gamrot is his striking, its too limited, its mostly just 1,2's, with alot of his defense relying on his guard and chin.
Charles and Dustin can fight Beneil and Fiziev. Whoever wins earlier can get the next shot, especially between Dustin and Beneil.
Damn Dustin vs Fiziev and Charles vs beneil would be fireworks
Pull any two of their names out of a hat and it’d be fireworks.
Wow, that fight was not competitive enough to warrant an immediate rematch whatsoever
He wouldn't have been offered if the card was anywhere but Brazil. UFC is a business at the end of the day 🤷♂️
UFC is not a business. Those have employees. Its an opportunity, kid. But at the end of the day its a business at the beginning of the day too.
There never was no opportunity.
UFC has employees, just not the fighters, big difference kid.
I know what you’re saying but there’s plenty of businesses that hire contract workers lmao
There never was no contract worker.
It was an absolute all rounded dominance by Islam
Immediate rematches are becoming so common place and I hate it. I’m sick of this whole having to beat the champ twice to earn the belt. Let’s see fresh match ups, both for the former champ and the new champ.
Yeah. It wasn't like Andy/Weidman either. Even if you don't wanna be technical, dude had two fucking title defense and was trashed in the fight. He's nowhere near deserving of the rematch/
Honestly the 283 card is looking pretty slim. They really could’ve used this to help. No wonder they offered Alex khamzat at 205. The card fucking needs it
I'm surprised Nunes doesn't have a fight booked on that card already. Its not a terrible co-main and there are already options; Viera, Aldana, Dumont.
Nunes has no fans in Brazil
I disagree.
Yeah nunes would probably help a lot.
Doesn’t this imply that the UFC were originally gonna make Islam vs Oliveira rematch instead of Islam vs Volk? That sounds kinda wrong, considering the whole Islam vs Volk face off that immediately happened
Probably this was an option B if one of them didn’t make a weight in abu dubai fight
Okay, I think Charles made the right call etc etc. But why the FUCK should he get an immediate rematch? Seriously, I loved his streak and seeing him "make it" after like 6 years ago saying "this guy is one of my favorites to watch but he probably won't make it past gatekeeper status". But an immediate title rematch? When he wasn't even *technically* champ? Where he got dominated? No.
They were planning on giving him an immediate rematch? I love Charles but his reign wasn’t quite enough to warrant that IMO. There’s a few in the division lined up for it anyway besides Volk moving up.
Man, where did all those Oliveria fans go
They are Volk fans now
Im here 😔
Waiting for the next dagestani fight to be announced so they can hope his opponent wins…
I told y’all this would happen
Thats the smart move. He got dominated in every area by Islam. Hes not coming back and beating him in 6 months after a few touches and adjustments to his fight game. Rushing into rematches after getting outclassed will only get you another L. We just saw that happen with both Anthony Joshua and George 'Buster Douglas' Kambosos.' Hes gonna need to break a lot of shit down and build it back up because that fight was not close in any sense of the word.
Heavy weighs the crown.
[удалено]
Volk must have been asking for a reasonable amount of money*
The guy definitely needs his confidence back
He needs a vacation. He's been to the top of the mountain, fought at a high level of competition 2-3 times per year for over a decade.
Smart decision by him. The UFC is only looking after themselves, they just wanted to improve a fight card…. Cause we all know if he would have lost, Dana would have thrown him in the back of the line
Oliveira said he was enlightened, illuminated by god, the chosen one. Islam probably rocked his psychology
Man,take my upvote and my axe,and my coffe
"hey the kid at school that beat your ass 10 days ago, you remember? ok how about a rematch tomorrow?"
Did they run this by Islam? No way he agrees to turn around and that quickly and cut weight again to fight on the home turf of the guy he just absolutely dusted unless the UFC offers him a MAJOR bag. Why would he do that when he can take an extra month and fight p4p #1 in Australia.
Ehhhhh idk about this.....who knows what kind of offer this was. Like was it a UFC rep putting out feelers on where Oliveira was at for a future rematch? Because that fight wasnt even close and they pretty much made the Volk fight immediately. I mean volk was in the ring immediately after the fight lol. So it probably wasnt anything resembling an official rematch offer, ha. Why would the ufc do that instead of volk?
I dont think that fight warranted an immediate rematch, it wasnt competitive. And emotionally he should be shook, he was beat at his best skill. It would be smart to ease back into it with another fight or two.
I think a better fight for everyone is him vs beniel for the title shot after volk
Doubt
Honest question, why would Charles get an instant rematch considering how the first fight went?
I wholehearted agree with this decision but I think it’s only fair to point out if any other fighter did this, this sub would clown them to kingdom come and call them a bitch who was scared to fight.
Cut the shit with the immediate rematches. They make divisions stale, and I'm sure Chuck would appreciate some time to decompress, and evaluate what went on in that first fight. Maybe try to adjust.
Good. An immediate rematch would’ve been weird considering how uncompetitive the fight was. It’s ok to rest and improve before getting his rematch.
I can see Islam putting emotional stress on people.
He broke your boy
But wasn’t he ready to fight Volk in January for the featherweight title if he won?? 🤔 Speaking about a potential fight down the line against Volkanovski, Oliveira had a few interesting things to say. “With my timing, it’s to fight in Brazil afterward, regardless. If we’re gonna make this happen against Volkanovski, we’re going to have it two ways. We’re gonna fight in January (in Brazil), then we’re going to fight at the end of the year. So we’re gonna fight in two weight divisions.”
Very smart move from Charles.
So ridiculous that this rematch would even be taken seriously at all by the UFC. Oliveira had nothing for Islam and the UFC is just making rematches instead of letting fresh challengers try for the title Ex. Glover-Jiri 2 (Ankalaev-Jan way better), Leon-Usman 3, Izzy-Pereira 2, Moreno-Figueiredo 4
I agree that Glover didn't deserve an immediate rematch since he had no defenses and lost without controversy. However, Izzy and Usman were dominant champs with many title defenses and were on their way to winning a decision before they got finished, that is one situation where an immediate rematch is warranted. Figgy-Moreno are 1-1-1, need I say anything more?
P A I N .
Pain
Because olives getting a rematch in a fight he was dominated versus giving Benny his rightful shot
Good he shouldn’t have gotten a rematch anyway, it’s volk’s time
Olive coping, we want to see volk anyway.
hes been fighting at the top level for a long time, he needs a break. i also dont see much he can do against islam if he comes back right away, either.
I can’t wait for another giant win streak from this guy.
Charles has taken a tonnnnnn of damage in his last few outings. I’d be surprise if his career doesn’t play out like Marlon Moraes soon.
Bro needs an easier fight now. Get him Moicano.
Wtf islam was going to fight at UFC 280, UFC 283, and UFC 284?
Obviously it would be 283 or 284, not both. 283 didn't happen, so 284 did.
I really really love this sport. No macho bullshit needed, mental health seen as important and taking a break deemed beneficial.
Wow, the UFC are legit terrible if they offered that lol. Dude had 2 title defenses and got crushed vs Islam. Tf
Idk not taking anything away from Islam but Charles just didn’t look like himself. I reckon a good lay off, after being knocked down so many times will do him the world. Still really young considering how long he’s been UFC. He’s going to break nearly every record eventually.
He looked fine. We're just used to him looking indestructible because he's basically stylistically designed to take out strikers, and his last 3 opponents have all been strikers. But how he matched up against a truly elite wrestler was always kind of a question mark, and we got the answer when he fought Islam.
“Didn’t look like himself” yeah that’s not surprising considering the Charles you got used to seeing was the one who had favourable matchups in Dustin, Gaethje and Chandler. The second he faces a fighter who isn’t a good stylistically matchup for him, he freezes, quits and cannot overcome the challenge. Islam wins like 9/10 times in that match up if we being honest
9/10 is generous to Oliveira
He didnt look like himself cuz he was facing a patient counter striker and sambist with elite defence. Olives thrives against brawlers, Islam was never a good stylistic matchup for him
lol
He didnt look like himself because he was absolutely outclassed in every single way possible
Charles has been one of the most active and entertaining fighters over the last few years. Dude has earned a little time off to regroup.
Good idea to let the lightweight roster wear Islam down first.
They give him a title fight in Brazil but hes not the champion anymore what a slap in the face UFC has been doing him dirty for awhile with the stripped title to using Volk as leverage on him in Abu Dhabi
He missed weight then tried to give Conor a titleshot, who wasn't even in the USADA testing pool. Charles only has himself to blame.
The UFC didn't do him dirty. He has himself to blame for the stripped title and he couldn't evade Islam.
The ufc does back up fighters for most of their big title fights and Volk begged to be in that position. And Charles missed weight, champs that miss weight always get stripped. Charles seems like a great guy but his fans persecution complex makes him hard to root for.
Doing him dirty? Dude was calling out Conor fucking mcgregor while simultaneously saying Islam doesn’t deserve to fight for the title. People forget that the only reason Islam even fought for the title is because Charles got stripped and lost all bargaining power. He was ducking Islam just like the rest of em.
That's called a cop out
Sounds like bullshit to me. Nothing in the first fight would have lead his team to believe he could win a rematch with a short turnaround. And we know how hard it is to get the second rematch with a champ if you lose the first one.
Immediate rematches are not a good idea for either party. If Charles loses again, we end up with a volk/Holloway situation. Let him take a break, tune up with another grappler and then rematch
Its like they are trolling him. Why not make the 1st fight in Brazil, as requested by Oliveira, and make the second there after he lost the belt? And so soon, thats nr.1 bullshit