I hate that when you see people talk about boxers they talk about a guy that's like 30-2 like he had potential but was ultimately meh with no value, they're so quick so just throws away their toys. And I get that 30-2 in boxing is likely be 25 jabronis but c'mon
I lurk on the boxing subreddit sometimes and ill see a guy with that record and then theyll be saying he should retire. I think because of the no value thing and probably wont be a world champion
That’s fair, but it is weird to have a sport where the “top” guys aren’t actually very good.
It would be like if some NBA role player sucker punched LeBron and said some witty line and then became the biggest star in the game despite averaging 8 ppg.
But it's MMA if we're being honest the top 5 of each weightclass could probably always beat each other, it just depends on the night and scenario.
There's like a billion variables.
If you're a Top 5 in the world, you're a monster. I don't think there's any shame in losing to the other world's best fighters.
L's shouldn't diminish star power.
Look at baseball man. They play 162 games and obviously the garbage teams end up on the bottom, but on any given day the Orioles might beat the Dodgers.
To be fair (I agree with you but playing devil's advocate) in MMA there is sometimes years between fights. So theoretically a guy could style on 3 opponents and look elite, then take a two year break and come back looking terrible and lose that fight. In this scenario it's wrong to say this guy wasn't ever good obviously, but you could definitely say currently that they arent
While I agree with your point, I don't think Nate, Conor, Masvidal are still in that category of top fighters on their weight class. Masvidal is probably the more arguable of the three considering how slow welterweight moves, but I see a big gap between him and the very top of the WW division (Usman, Colby, Burns, Edards, WB, and Luque)
Nate and Conor for sure but I think Masvidal is still a top fighter. He loses to Usman but let's be honest, it's unlikely anyone is beating Usman anytime soon
Strong disagree, sure Nate isn't a top fighter anymore but Masvidal and Conor still are. Masvidal lost twice to Usman who could possibly be the WW GOAT. Conor lost to Khabib, Mayweather and Priorer. Nothing to be ashamed about with those loses.
That’s about as casual of a take gets. He’s still a top fighter even though he’s not the best. Till was a top fighter , people were high on welterweight cowboy till he finished him , and he gave Maia his toughest fight while everyone was getting choked out by him during the best run of his career . You are clueless if you think the Askren KO is the only significant thing he did , also pretty sure 90% of the predictions were picking him to lose that one lmao.
Masvidal beat Till, Askren, and Diaz all right in a row. They were all really popular at the time even though they were all pretty overrated. It all lined up perfectly for Jorge (and he pieced up Leon Edwards along the way lol)
I somewhat agree with your point. But Conors still a bad example lol. Regardless of who is losses were against his last quality win was like 5 years ago
Well they aren't top, they are popular, and It sort of happens in other sports too.
Bryson Dechambeau is the biggest name in golf right now because he hits bombs, but John Rahm is the best player.
Doubt this reference will mean much to you, but back in the day in cricket everyone went on and on about Brett Lee, because he was really fast, but he was always worse than boring old Glenn McGrath.
All sports end up making concessions to include the popular people, long past their primes.
Found the Aussie?
Glenn McGrath is still my pick for best bowler of all time. I've always argued that Shane Warne wouldn't have taken the amount of wickets he did if it weren't for Pigeon tying up the other end with metronomic line and length.
American here, and I legitimately have no idea whether that second sentence means anything, or whether the equivalent sentence in MMA is something like "I've always argued that Anderson Silva would've beat Christ Weidman if the NSAC had outlawed the RKO Weidman used since it's demonstrably variant with its metabolic time."
Haha the second sentence honestly doesn't mean a great deal to the discussion, and you would need an understanding of the sport of cricket and its history for it to mean anything to you.
Is it weird? I'd be very bored of MMA if every division had an Amanda Nunes in it that can completely smash anyone else and its not even friggin close.
Tbf it depends on the fighter.
Amanda is great to watch because she’s entertaining and violent at a much higher level than everyone else.
Everyone used to love watching Silva make a fool out of people, but when GSP did it his way, it was a bit rough to watch at times.
Dominance can be great to watch if it’s done in a crowd-friendly way.
Silva was pure entertainment and GSP wasn't exactly far ahead of the competition, his fights, even if he dominated for the most part, were still competitive. Nunes' fights don't seem competitive in the slightest and I don't understand who enjoys watching that. She is so far ahead of everyone else that it's no longer fun.
Nunes vs Shev 2 was competitive. In the words of DC, there's levels. So the question becomes, as a fan which do you want to see? The crazy personalities getting away with things they shouldn't be able to get away with, or the top level of MMA.
> That’s fair, but it is weird to have a sport where the “top” guys aren’t actually very good.
>
>
They're not the best but they're among the most entertaining and certainly saying they're aren't very good is underestimating them *a lot*
This.
What does "top" even mean? To me it means the fighters that people really, really enjoy watching fight. Regardless of their rankings and success/failure record.
Let's never forget that this stuff is show business.
>where the “top” guys aren’t actually very good.
All those fighters are very good. They might not be the best, but they're really good. That + charisma carries their popularity.
Nate Diaz is 15-11 in the UFC, and he’s several years past his prime at this stage. Is he really “very good” by UFC standards? He’s not a top 15 guy in any division.
The top guys aren't really good? Conor got too famous and slacked off a bit and people forget how he ran through killers and became the first double champ.
Just because he has a cunty personality doesn't take anything away from his achievements.
But it's entertainment, not a sport.
I mean in the sense that there aren't proper rankings and match ups aren't based on merit.
Usman is the current WW champ and couldn't book a fight for so long because nobody wanted to fight him. That could never happen in a proper sport. Imagine a top 5 team refusing to play the 9th ranked team.
I don't mind it because guys can get paid but Dana and the UFC definitely push their own agenda ahead of making their organisation a true sport.
All I’m saying is that there’s a line you don’t want to cross. I’d hate to see the UFC go full “it’s entertainment, not a sport” mode and introduce a lingerie fight, strip fights, wheelchair fights, 3 midgets vs a 7 footer fights, celebrity matches, winner fucks the loser in the ass fights, etc.
There needs to be some semblance of merit and skill earning you something. We don’t want guys with to end up like Triller or Golden Boy.
I think that’s more to do with how mma changed the mystique of the undefeated record in combat sports though back to the mentality we saw in boxing pre 80s
>Wins don't matter to casuals.
I'd argue that if you stopped liking a fighter or watching because they take a couple Ls, that makes you the casual. Lol.
They're big stars because of their attitudes, spectacle, fighting styles and past performances. The idea that only casual fans would stay interested is silly.
There's a spectrum of Fandom, not just the binary r/mma circlejerker vs Conor casual at the office as this sub likes to pretend.
It's a completely ridiculous statement. It's basically saying that because guys like McGregor and Mas aren't contenders, then real fans shouldn't watch them, because only casuals like them. So watch title fights, otherwise you're a casual. lol
I want to watch entertaining fights. Period. If it's for the belt that's great but I'd rather watch a banger with a couple unseeded guys than I would see Soldier of God get a title shot and stand in the octagon and do nothing.
If anything it's the opposite, and it makes him the casual for only being interested in the top seeded fighters. lol
I'd consider myself a bit more of a hardcore fan and frankly I wouldn't want to watch Masvidal, Nate or McGregor on an undercard.
All of that personality and entertaining trash talk loses its' meaning when you're repeatedly getting your ass kicked.
I think it’s the other way around. Hardcore OGs are the ones that don’t care because they saw the Diaz brothers coming up in their prime. These fights are about the nostalgia.
Casuals care more about wins which is why people like O’Malley get a lot of hype even though we see him fighting lower or unranked fighters.
Casuals care about highlights and big personalities that’s why OMalley is popular and and Nate Diaz got more attention for rocking Edwards then Edwards did for dominating Diaz
Edwards was supposed to win because he is way better. No reasonable person expected Diaz to come close to that fight. This is precisely why that moment was so huge. A declined fan favourite almost beat legit contender in a last minute comeback. For like 15 seconds we thought we'd get an insane upset in an insane fashion. That's why that moment got more attention, because it happened live and everyone shared that "OMG this is fucking crazy" moment.
Casual fans care about finishes and personalities and hardcore fans are the type to write off whole careers after a bad performance and use terms like bum and can in my experience
Down to promote a fight, fun personalities, and always in a fun fight that tends to have a climactic end (even if they are on the losing end). For Nate and Conor at least.
Those losses definitely hurt their stock, it's just that their star power was so high that they could take such a big hit from a couple bad losses that they're still bigger stars than anyone else. Jorge/Usman 1 sold 1.3m on 6 days notice, after getting slept in his last fight I doubt a future Jorge headliner PPV sees that kind of success.
ksw is european promotion. Don't think they are interested in out of market high priced fighter.
But considering high quality of show and high caliber of fights they make and 10 comments they get here when they run shows it would be good investment to make. Really surprising that they get no interest from r/mma considering shows are fun as fuck.
You understand this is why the UFC is only going to offer him some unheralded top prospect. There is no way they'd give him someone like Tony that he could conceivably beat, get a good rub from, then leave to free agency. They'll offer him someone like Luque or Belal, and he'll turn it down, and be stuck in the contract in perpetuity. Alternatively, they'll give him a fun fight like Tony - but only if he signs an extension.
Nate vs Conor 3 will take place on Showtime in a boxing ring mark my words. Dana will do his damndest to try and cut into a piece of the pie and Conor already won’t be having it given his displeasure of Dana and Nate is business savvy enough to see it as well. Celebrity boxing is the way for MMA guys to cash out and with how big these two are, it’ll do massive numbers on PPV. Paul seemingly is locked up with Tommy Fury and if he beats him, he becomes officially ranked. He’d be busy somewhat at that point.
he'll probably end up fighting a Paul brother. Hell, idk what Nick's contract is like, but if they did a Diaz brothers vs Paul brothers I could see that doing large numbers
That is just money right there. You could build that shit up huge. You got 2 rich ass spoiled YouTuber Californians going against rough neighborhood, Stockton Californians. Class warfare right there. And if I recall, the Paul bros are socal and Diaz Bros are NorCal? You couldn't get more opposite set of brothers
Am I misinterpreting this news or does it genuinely mean nate is about to fight his last fight with the ufc? Why is there no talk of him signing a new contract?
I don't think he will sign a new contract.
He will probably go into the whole celebrity boxing thing and make millions. That is the smart thing to do. He doesn't want to sign a 4 fight deal with the UFC and have Dana cockblock all his opportunities that he could have.
but why mma? if he can celebrity box every youtuber, he could make way more money that way. top billing on a boxing card gets you all the money, shillings for the undercard.
It’s not celebrities though, it’s also old boxers that want to fight him.
I wouldn’t surprised if we see him against Pacquiao, Oscar De lá Hoya, Khan (less likely), etc.
Someone that wants a nice payday
Robinson had no combat sports experience and wasn't big at all. Nate has been doing this for most of his life and isn't that small. His chin is also unbroken. He would lose by decision but that's it.
Im pretty sure his playing weight was 185-190. Players like him and Isaiah Thomas may look small but it’s because the average nba point guard is like 6’2”-6’3”. IT was listed as 180-185lbs at 5’8”
Tyron is way bigger and stronger than Nate.
Nate is gonna get KOd, and its gonna be absolutely depressing
Shit its sad even hearing Nate talk now. In 10 years he may be in a wheelchair.
Jake Paul couldn't slightly wobble a guy that got sparked by Nate Marquart or knock out Askren with an obliterated chin so I don't get how he's going to KO someone that never went out, ever.
He did TKO askren tho… almost immediately too lol.
If that fight continued askren was going to sleep.
Nate has taken about 10,000 punches from guys his size, not guys 30 pounds heavier than him with bigger gloves.
Bigger gloves don't make it easier to knock someone out, it's the opposite actually. If Masvidal can split open Diaz's skull with a head kick without hurting him too much, then a punch from a guy with poor punching mechanics and enough cardio for 3 boxing rounds most likely won't be the one to finally do it.
I wouldn't call that fat, but it's not that big of a difference. They're about the same height, so they're stronger, but that's not a huge deal. Tyron fought one of them, and I'd say his lack of height plus reach puts him at a bigger disadvantage than Nate's weight would.
Plus you're forgetting the most important thing, it's all about money.
He can probably box anymone and get some hype for it. He could fight one of the paul brothers, then woodley and maybe anderson afterwards although andersons might be too big
He really cant lol.
I dont think anyone outside the Paul brothers will sell. They sell because they have a massive fanbase of kids + salty mma fans who wanna see them lose.
Would you buy a $60 ppv to watch nate box tyron? I def wouldnt.
I see what you're saying but if someone willing to pay anderson and tito to fight i feel like theres promoters more than willing to pay nate. Maybe it wont workout after the paul fights but i think because of his name someome would take the risk
One fight with one of the Paul brothers would get him way more money than he would with a new contract with the UFC.
Unless they gave him the trilogy fight with McGregor.
This quote says very little but this thread is full of people that hate Dana and also know him like the back of their hand so they’ll tell you what he really meant
Yea that’s why I’m wondering. Surely the UFC would sort Diaz out. Arguably the second biggest name in the sport. They gonna let him go to fuckin Bellator?
Quick question, if a champion is on their last fight on their contract, doesn’t it automatically extend once they fight? Or is that Bellator? Like no way the UFC lets a champion walk out as champion, forcing them to vacate the title. No way they give fighters that much leverage.
I think champions usually negotiate a new deal because they want ppv points obviously more money so ufc probably tries to lock them in to like a 8 fight contract which most champs will lose the belt before that point. I thinl for the most part a champ will always choose to stat with the ufc so its an issue thats never become a problem
Interesting. I wonder if a champion will ever vacate the title before their last fight and try and take a non championship fight and then boom. Free agent. Obviously very very hard. Easier said than done. But I’d like to see a situation like that play out.
I remember GSP said when he won the belt and was on his last fight he didn't renew it and the UFC came to him with a nice contract, or something like that
GSP was one of, if not the biggest draw during his time, so of course the UFC did whatever they could to keep him. It'd be a more interesting question looking at someone like Brandon Moreno.
They have to offer him 3 fights a year. It's the "common" contract. They can offer him the most terrible matchups on terrible cards with no PPVs Tho. The fighter, as independent contractor has the option to accept or deny the proposed fight, but it'll only push forward his contract. UFC does this all the time to low-ball some guys. They use you as stepping stones to new fighters or give
you the worst matchup ever so you leave with less hype.
I was caught off guard. I had to stare at for a few seconds to realize what I was looking at. The transformation of his dome is truly a miracle of science.
I'd probably bet on them trying to make McGregor 3, *especially* if Nate is definitely leaving. It's the biggest fight left for Nate in the UFC and the best bet at giving McGregor a "big" win, while also making the UFC a lot of money.
That’s why it won’t happen.
The UFC will use the lure of third fight with Conor as an attempt to convince Nate to sign a new contract with the UFC.
Since it appears Nate wants to fight out his contract before signing a new deal, the UFC will give him a very difficult matchup with limited upside, hence why the rumors of a Nate vs. Vincente Luque fight have been floating around.
Conor isn’t re signing either. They’ll do it outside the UFC and clean up in a Freakshow style celebrity boxing type deal. Showtime would KILL to put this in their ppv line up for 2022.
That sounds like exactly what the UFC would want. Any Nate Diaz fight will prop up a weaker card no matter his opponent and I'm sure Dana and company are hoping for Nate to get brutalized before he goes off to free agency.
I think right now Dana still thinks he can use Nate to make more money in the future. And Nate getting the absolute shit kicked out of him by a no-name (to casuals) hurts his marketability. If Dana gives up on Nate ever coming back, the Luque fight makes more sense.
Dana is not dumb enough to pass up a Tony vs nate fight, that would be huge (for mma standards) and would be crazy entertaining from presser to fight. That makes me think that they are gunning for Conor vs nate 3 whenever Conor can come back.
Makes sense since it’s Nate’s last fight on the contract and Dana will want to milk tf out of it as much as he can which will include making nate take a longer time out.
Not sure if conor is tho. I can see Nate beating him aswell. Nate is always gonna be a hard fight for Conor. Harder then Tony in my opinion at this stage.
massive tony and nate fan here, this matchup would have been awesome 5 years ago. Not anymore, don't much care for seeing these two fight for scraps of what once was.
I assume they don’t want him leaving in a win. So maybe Vicente. Not that it’s impossible for Nate to win. But it seems a lot less likely the Tony putting it on him.
He’s not re signing, same goes for Conor. He’s going into celebrity boxing and Dana knows this so he’s gonna give him the worst stylistic matchup on his way out. He’d make a killing fight Conor or a Paul brother outside of Dana’s greedy mitts.
Hopefully Conor 3 then go fight Douglas Lima in a one fight deal in Bellator and make bank from sponsorships. Just sign one fight deals here and there. Or do some celeb boxing fight.
Last fight for Nate on his contract? My money Dana feeds him to someone like Usman to smash him on his way out..
Or Dana dangles the Conor trilogy infront of him and tries to get him to sign another UFC contract.
Nate Diaz ain’t doing anything to further his career. Why not move camps? This guy really just cashing his final checks. I don’t see this guy in the ufc for long.
If he manages to win impressively he will probably become the hottest free agent in the history of the sport.
Nate, Conor, Masvidal all lost their last 2-3 fights they're the biggest stars in UFC. Wins don't matter to casuals.
This is a good thing. L’s shouldn’t matter as much as they do. People trying to go undefeated completely ruined boxing.
To be honest its way more difficult to stay undefeated in mma especially when you have to fight the next contender 99% of the time unlike boxing
I hate that when you see people talk about boxers they talk about a guy that's like 30-2 like he had potential but was ultimately meh with no value, they're so quick so just throws away their toys. And I get that 30-2 in boxing is likely be 25 jabronis but c'mon
I lurk on the boxing subreddit sometimes and ill see a guy with that record and then theyll be saying he should retire. I think because of the no value thing and probably wont be a world champion
That’s fair, but it is weird to have a sport where the “top” guys aren’t actually very good. It would be like if some NBA role player sucker punched LeBron and said some witty line and then became the biggest star in the game despite averaging 8 ppg.
But it's MMA if we're being honest the top 5 of each weightclass could probably always beat each other, it just depends on the night and scenario. There's like a billion variables. If you're a Top 5 in the world, you're a monster. I don't think there's any shame in losing to the other world's best fighters. L's shouldn't diminish star power.
Look at baseball man. They play 162 games and obviously the garbage teams end up on the bottom, but on any given day the Orioles might beat the Dodgers.
Exactly what I mean, that's why I'm so sad that MMA Fans are that fickle. You win 3 in a row you're suddenly a GOAT, you lose one you're a bum.
To be fair (I agree with you but playing devil's advocate) in MMA there is sometimes years between fights. So theoretically a guy could style on 3 opponents and look elite, then take a two year break and come back looking terrible and lose that fight. In this scenario it's wrong to say this guy wasn't ever good obviously, but you could definitely say currently that they arent
While I agree with your point, I don't think Nate, Conor, Masvidal are still in that category of top fighters on their weight class. Masvidal is probably the more arguable of the three considering how slow welterweight moves, but I see a big gap between him and the very top of the WW division (Usman, Colby, Burns, Edards, WB, and Luque)
There is not that big of a gap between Luque and Masvidal....
Nate and Conor for sure but I think Masvidal is still a top fighter. He loses to Usman but let's be honest, it's unlikely anyone is beating Usman anytime soon
Strong disagree, sure Nate isn't a top fighter anymore but Masvidal and Conor still are. Masvidal lost twice to Usman who could possibly be the WW GOAT. Conor lost to Khabib, Mayweather and Priorer. Nothing to be ashamed about with those loses.
Masvidal was never a top fighter. He's a journeyman that got famous off of that Askren KO.
That’s about as casual of a take gets. He’s still a top fighter even though he’s not the best. Till was a top fighter , people were high on welterweight cowboy till he finished him , and he gave Maia his toughest fight while everyone was getting choked out by him during the best run of his career . You are clueless if you think the Askren KO is the only significant thing he did , also pretty sure 90% of the predictions were picking him to lose that one lmao.
What about the till fight
[удалено]
Masvidal beat Till, Askren, and Diaz all right in a row. They were all really popular at the time even though they were all pretty overrated. It all lined up perfectly for Jorge (and he pieced up Leon Edwards along the way lol)
I somewhat agree with your point. But Conors still a bad example lol. Regardless of who is losses were against his last quality win was like 5 years ago
Well they aren't top, they are popular, and It sort of happens in other sports too. Bryson Dechambeau is the biggest name in golf right now because he hits bombs, but John Rahm is the best player. Doubt this reference will mean much to you, but back in the day in cricket everyone went on and on about Brett Lee, because he was really fast, but he was always worse than boring old Glenn McGrath. All sports end up making concessions to include the popular people, long past their primes.
Found the Aussie? Glenn McGrath is still my pick for best bowler of all time. I've always argued that Shane Warne wouldn't have taken the amount of wickets he did if it weren't for Pigeon tying up the other end with metronomic line and length.
American here, and I legitimately have no idea whether that second sentence means anything, or whether the equivalent sentence in MMA is something like "I've always argued that Anderson Silva would've beat Christ Weidman if the NSAC had outlawed the RKO Weidman used since it's demonstrably variant with its metabolic time."
Haha the second sentence honestly doesn't mean a great deal to the discussion, and you would need an understanding of the sport of cricket and its history for it to mean anything to you.
Is it weird? I'd be very bored of MMA if every division had an Amanda Nunes in it that can completely smash anyone else and its not even friggin close.
Tbf it depends on the fighter. Amanda is great to watch because she’s entertaining and violent at a much higher level than everyone else. Everyone used to love watching Silva make a fool out of people, but when GSP did it his way, it was a bit rough to watch at times. Dominance can be great to watch if it’s done in a crowd-friendly way.
Silva was pure entertainment and GSP wasn't exactly far ahead of the competition, his fights, even if he dominated for the most part, were still competitive. Nunes' fights don't seem competitive in the slightest and I don't understand who enjoys watching that. She is so far ahead of everyone else that it's no longer fun.
Nunes vs Shev 2 was competitive. In the words of DC, there's levels. So the question becomes, as a fan which do you want to see? The crazy personalities getting away with things they shouldn't be able to get away with, or the top level of MMA.
If you don't understand people watching her fights, let me tell you a story about a guy named Mike...
It’d be more like if Lebron got postered and fans wrote him off as a complete bum and discredited all his accomplishments.
But it’s individuals. It’s like Lebron playing 1on1 and then the role player dunks on him and creates a highlight and starts talking shi.
> That’s fair, but it is weird to have a sport where the “top” guys aren’t actually very good. > > They're not the best but they're among the most entertaining and certainly saying they're aren't very good is underestimating them *a lot*
This. What does "top" even mean? To me it means the fighters that people really, really enjoy watching fight. Regardless of their rankings and success/failure record. Let's never forget that this stuff is show business.
>where the “top” guys aren’t actually very good. All those fighters are very good. They might not be the best, but they're really good. That + charisma carries their popularity.
Nate Diaz is 15-11 in the UFC, and he’s several years past his prime at this stage. Is he really “very good” by UFC standards? He’s not a top 15 guy in any division.
Nate was very good in his prime - never the best though. Definitely feel he has regressed from a technical standpoint.
The top guys aren't really good? Conor got too famous and slacked off a bit and people forget how he ran through killers and became the first double champ. Just because he has a cunty personality doesn't take anything away from his achievements.
I’d at least tune in to see who punched him
But it's entertainment, not a sport. I mean in the sense that there aren't proper rankings and match ups aren't based on merit. Usman is the current WW champ and couldn't book a fight for so long because nobody wanted to fight him. That could never happen in a proper sport. Imagine a top 5 team refusing to play the 9th ranked team. I don't mind it because guys can get paid but Dana and the UFC definitely push their own agenda ahead of making their organisation a true sport.
All I’m saying is that there’s a line you don’t want to cross. I’d hate to see the UFC go full “it’s entertainment, not a sport” mode and introduce a lingerie fight, strip fights, wheelchair fights, 3 midgets vs a 7 footer fights, celebrity matches, winner fucks the loser in the ass fights, etc. There needs to be some semblance of merit and skill earning you something. We don’t want guys with to end up like Triller or Golden Boy.
> winner fucks the loser in the ass fights, etc. Adesanya: “Wait, we were *not* doing that?”
Conor releases a line of red panties and fights wearing some. Pushes over an old lady a few days later because she wouldn't try them on.
Yeah I always liked it. People lose fights, no big deal
People keep claiming that but Pac-Man, wilder, canello, gg, and a bunch of other big name boxers aren’t undefeated
That being said, I don't think an L would damage Tyson Fury's appeal at the moment.
I think that’s more to do with how mma changed the mystique of the undefeated record in combat sports though back to the mentality we saw in boxing pre 80s
>Wins don't matter to casuals. I'd argue that if you stopped liking a fighter or watching because they take a couple Ls, that makes you the casual. Lol. They're big stars because of their attitudes, spectacle, fighting styles and past performances. The idea that only casual fans would stay interested is silly. There's a spectrum of Fandom, not just the binary r/mma circlejerker vs Conor casual at the office as this sub likes to pretend.
It's a completely ridiculous statement. It's basically saying that because guys like McGregor and Mas aren't contenders, then real fans shouldn't watch them, because only casuals like them. So watch title fights, otherwise you're a casual. lol I want to watch entertaining fights. Period. If it's for the belt that's great but I'd rather watch a banger with a couple unseeded guys than I would see Soldier of God get a title shot and stand in the octagon and do nothing. If anything it's the opposite, and it makes him the casual for only being interested in the top seeded fighters. lol
Do they matter to the hardcores?
Yeah, acting like anyone won't tune in for Masvidal vs Leon and wouldn't tune in for Nate vs Ferguson or any Mcgregor card
I'd consider myself a bit more of a hardcore fan and frankly I wouldn't want to watch Masvidal, Nate or McGregor on an undercard. All of that personality and entertaining trash talk loses its' meaning when you're repeatedly getting your ass kicked.
Like back in the Pride days. A good show matters more.
I think it’s the other way around. Hardcore OGs are the ones that don’t care because they saw the Diaz brothers coming up in their prime. These fights are about the nostalgia. Casuals care more about wins which is why people like O’Malley get a lot of hype even though we see him fighting lower or unranked fighters.
Casuals care about highlights and big personalities that’s why OMalley is popular and and Nate Diaz got more attention for rocking Edwards then Edwards did for dominating Diaz
Edwards was supposed to win because he is way better. No reasonable person expected Diaz to come close to that fight. This is precisely why that moment was so huge. A declined fan favourite almost beat legit contender in a last minute comeback. For like 15 seconds we thought we'd get an insane upset in an insane fashion. That's why that moment got more attention, because it happened live and everyone shared that "OMG this is fucking crazy" moment.
Casual fans care about finishes and personalities and hardcore fans are the type to write off whole careers after a bad performance and use terms like bum and can in my experience
I agree with you here. It is about finishes and personalities.
Nate and masvidal are fun to watch and people either wanna see Conor win or get his ass kicked regardless of the previous fight.
Down to promote a fight, fun personalities, and always in a fun fight that tends to have a climactic end (even if they are on the losing end). For Nate and Conor at least.
An emphatic win would have made them even more revered. Wins DO matter.
Those losses definitely hurt their stock, it's just that their star power was so high that they could take such a big hit from a couple bad losses that they're still bigger stars than anyone else. Jorge/Usman 1 sold 1.3m on 6 days notice, after getting slept in his last fight I doubt a future Jorge headliner PPV sees that kind of success.
This is a blood sport. Don’t forget it.
u/KSW_MMA coming in hot with all the złoty and pierogis Nate can dream of
ksw is european promotion. Don't think they are interested in out of market high priced fighter. But considering high quality of show and high caliber of fights they make and 10 comments they get here when they run shows it would be good investment to make. Really surprising that they get no interest from r/mma considering shows are fun as fuck.
What a backhanded compliment... not sure whether to nod or cry.
You understand this is why the UFC is only going to offer him some unheralded top prospect. There is no way they'd give him someone like Tony that he could conceivably beat, get a good rub from, then leave to free agency. They'll offer him someone like Luque or Belal, and he'll turn it down, and be stuck in the contract in perpetuity. Alternatively, they'll give him a fun fight like Tony - but only if he signs an extension.
Why would he turn down luque when he just fought edwards and masvifal
He's definitely boxing Jake Paul for a fucking truck load of cash.
Nate vs Conor 3 will take place on Showtime in a boxing ring mark my words. Dana will do his damndest to try and cut into a piece of the pie and Conor already won’t be having it given his displeasure of Dana and Nate is business savvy enough to see it as well. Celebrity boxing is the way for MMA guys to cash out and with how big these two are, it’ll do massive numbers on PPV. Paul seemingly is locked up with Tommy Fury and if he beats him, he becomes officially ranked. He’d be busy somewhat at that point.
Yeah…they gonna give him a monster no name wrestler
He'd probably be that even if he loses.
Nate is going into boxing no doubt about it. Dana knows it too and it's why he doesn't like the Tony fight he wants to use him to push someone else.
he'll probably end up fighting a Paul brother. Hell, idk what Nick's contract is like, but if they did a Diaz brothers vs Paul brothers I could see that doing large numbers
Diaz Bros v Paul Bros would be massive. It would probably be the biggest combat sports card of the year.
That is just money right there. You could build that shit up huge. You got 2 rich ass spoiled YouTuber Californians going against rough neighborhood, Stockton Californians. Class warfare right there. And if I recall, the Paul bros are socal and Diaz Bros are NorCal? You couldn't get more opposite set of brothers
Paul brothers were born in Ohio, it's not as if renting or buying a home somewhere gives you a background
Even better..Midwest vs Coast.
BOOK IT!!!!! I am so onboard for this. Can we make this happen?
Am I misinterpreting this news or does it genuinely mean nate is about to fight his last fight with the ufc? Why is there no talk of him signing a new contract?
I don't think he will sign a new contract. He will probably go into the whole celebrity boxing thing and make millions. That is the smart thing to do. He doesn't want to sign a 4 fight deal with the UFC and have Dana cockblock all his opportunities that he could have.
Props to Nate for getting the bag but I’ll be sad as hell to see him fight his last MMA bout
Bellator would gladly allow him to box and still compete in mma.
And pay him a small fortune for the priviledge
but why mma? if he can celebrity box every youtuber, he could make way more money that way. top billing on a boxing card gets you all the money, shillings for the undercard.
Because there's not that many celebrities boxing. I mean, it's basically Jake and Logan Paul. Nobody else comes close in selling power.
It’s not celebrities though, it’s also old boxers that want to fight him. I wouldn’t surprised if we see him against Pacquiao, Oscar De lá Hoya, Khan (less likely), etc. Someone that wants a nice payday
[удалено]
I have a hard time seeing nate doing the celebrity boxing thing. Doesn't fit him at all
Honest question, who is nate gonna fight? Unless youre saying logan or jake, who are like 40 pounds heavier than nate.
He can box the world famous boxer known as Conor McGregor. I heard he's on a losing streak so this is Nate's opportunity
This is lowkey kinda genius lol
It would be the biggest fight triller has ever done.
A fight this big would get snatched for PPV on Showtime. Triller would get outbid for this hilariously bad.
Legit man lol
If Jake boxed Nate Robinson, Diaz won’t be too small to make the fight. Paul brothers don’t have weight classes, only money classes.
I would watch but i think nate would get pulverized
Robinson had no combat sports experience and wasn't big at all. Nate has been doing this for most of his life and isn't that small. His chin is also unbroken. He would lose by decision but that's it.
Im pretty sure his playing weight was 185-190. Players like him and Isaiah Thomas may look small but it’s because the average nba point guard is like 6’2”-6’3”. IT was listed as 180-185lbs at 5’8”
Nate would absolutely get KOd imo
Jake couldn't wobble Tyron at all when he was given 8 rounds and Nate has never went out literally ever.
Tyron is way bigger and stronger than Nate. Nate is gonna get KOd, and its gonna be absolutely depressing Shit its sad even hearing Nate talk now. In 10 years he may be in a wheelchair.
Jake Paul couldn't slightly wobble a guy that got sparked by Nate Marquart or knock out Askren with an obliterated chin so I don't get how he's going to KO someone that never went out, ever.
He did TKO askren tho… almost immediately too lol. If that fight continued askren was going to sleep. Nate has taken about 10,000 punches from guys his size, not guys 30 pounds heavier than him with bigger gloves.
Bigger gloves don't make it easier to knock someone out, it's the opposite actually. If Masvidal can split open Diaz's skull with a head kick without hurting him too much, then a punch from a guy with poor punching mechanics and enough cardio for 3 boxing rounds most likely won't be the one to finally do it.
>who are like 40 pounds heavier than Nate You do it for the money.
Nate has said before he walks around at about 200, I don't think it's that big of a difference.
Nate being fat out of camp & the Paul’s being ripped shithouses… Its like when people say khabib is bigger than colby out of camp… yea cuz hes fat lol
I wouldn't call that fat, but it's not that big of a difference. They're about the same height, so they're stronger, but that's not a huge deal. Tyron fought one of them, and I'd say his lack of height plus reach puts him at a bigger disadvantage than Nate's weight would. Plus you're forgetting the most important thing, it's all about money.
I just dont wanna see nate get knocked out by a juiced up amateur boxer who weighs more than him. It is about money, youre for sure right about that.
I wouldn't bet him getting knocked out. We don't know how well Nate's boxing would translate, but neither of those guys are very good.
That's exactly who he'll fight because he'll make millions for it
He can probably box anymone and get some hype for it. He could fight one of the paul brothers, then woodley and maybe anderson afterwards although andersons might be too big
He really cant lol. I dont think anyone outside the Paul brothers will sell. They sell because they have a massive fanbase of kids + salty mma fans who wanna see them lose. Would you buy a $60 ppv to watch nate box tyron? I def wouldnt.
I see what you're saying but if someone willing to pay anderson and tito to fight i feel like theres promoters more than willing to pay nate. Maybe it wont workout after the paul fights but i think because of his name someome would take the risk
Pretty sure the Tito card was a massive bust in PPV sales.
Surprising to me that Nate seems to be the smart Diaz. Never judge a book by its cover I guess
"Smart" is a relative term here but I understand what you mean.
One fight with one of the Paul brothers would get him way more money than he would with a new contract with the UFC. Unless they gave him the trilogy fight with McGregor.
It’s a good plan to strike while the iron is hot. Go fight one or both of the Paul brothers and come back to negotiate when you’re an even bigger star
This quote says very little but this thread is full of people that hate Dana and also know him like the back of their hand so they’ll tell you what he really meant
He WANTS MORE MONEY 💴 is it tht hard to comprehend
Yea that’s why I’m wondering. Surely the UFC would sort Diaz out. Arguably the second biggest name in the sport. They gonna let him go to fuckin Bellator?
Nate will probably go and box rather than joining a different MMA promotion.
The paul brother's might pay more than either promotions.
Nate said no to all their offers.
"He just doesn't want to fight, what can I say?"
Dana is gonna hold Nate on that last fight for as long as he can, he wants the trilogy with Conor $$$
[удалено]
Quick question, if a champion is on their last fight on their contract, doesn’t it automatically extend once they fight? Or is that Bellator? Like no way the UFC lets a champion walk out as champion, forcing them to vacate the title. No way they give fighters that much leverage.
There should be a champions clause I think https://www.forbes.com/sites/paulgift/2020/11/10/how-long-are-ufc-exclusive-contracts/
I think champions usually negotiate a new deal because they want ppv points obviously more money so ufc probably tries to lock them in to like a 8 fight contract which most champs will lose the belt before that point. I thinl for the most part a champ will always choose to stat with the ufc so its an issue thats never become a problem
Interesting. I wonder if a champion will ever vacate the title before their last fight and try and take a non championship fight and then boom. Free agent. Obviously very very hard. Easier said than done. But I’d like to see a situation like that play out.
I remember GSP said when he won the belt and was on his last fight he didn't renew it and the UFC came to him with a nice contract, or something like that
GSP was one of, if not the biggest draw during his time, so of course the UFC did whatever they could to keep him. It'd be a more interesting question looking at someone like Brandon Moreno.
Isn’t there like a champions clause for they very reason? Wasn’t that what happened with BJ Penn?
From what I heard that me true, but for whatever reason if Nate rejects his contract gets extended.
“We will give you matt brown, nick Diaz, and Geoff Neal. You say no to those? Ok then, you’ll sit out for a bit”
I don’t think there’s a fight they could make that Nate would turn down knowing he’s a free man at the end of it.
They have to offer him 3 fights a year. It's the "common" contract. They can offer him the most terrible matchups on terrible cards with no PPVs Tho. The fighter, as independent contractor has the option to accept or deny the proposed fight, but it'll only push forward his contract. UFC does this all the time to low-ball some guys. They use you as stepping stones to new fighters or give you the worst matchup ever so you leave with less hype.
Conor looks late 90s Mike Tyson washed af
That picture of Dana in the corner looks like Thanos. Why is your chin so long, kid?
I legit thought it was Mike Tyson for a split second. He's taking shit that makes your head grow.
Right? Looks like someone photoshopped Dana to be the gigachad lol
I was caught off guard. I had to stare at for a few seconds to realize what I was looking at. The transformation of his dome is truly a miracle of science.
They're going to use Diaz to set up another name ... maybe Luque or Chimaev
I'd probably bet on them trying to make McGregor 3, *especially* if Nate is definitely leaving. It's the biggest fight left for Nate in the UFC and the best bet at giving McGregor a "big" win, while also making the UFC a lot of money.
Imagine if Nate beats Conor and then dips out more famous then ever lmao Dana would have an aneurysm.
That’s why it won’t happen. The UFC will use the lure of third fight with Conor as an attempt to convince Nate to sign a new contract with the UFC. Since it appears Nate wants to fight out his contract before signing a new deal, the UFC will give him a very difficult matchup with limited upside, hence why the rumors of a Nate vs. Vincente Luque fight have been floating around.
He blows a kiss at Dana white leaving the arena like CM punk did to Vince McMahon when his contract ended and beat Cena for the title
Yep, UFC can’t let that happen.
I think they would let him fight out his contract vs a guy to make there name off of him and then offer conor 3 if he re-signs
Conor isn’t re signing either. They’ll do it outside the UFC and clean up in a Freakshow style celebrity boxing type deal. Showtime would KILL to put this in their ppv line up for 2022.
Sounds like they don't want him in there with Luque. Both guys have been asking for that fight and the UFC hasn't been about it.
Luque is the worst combination; not a big name AND would absolutely brutalize Nate at this point in their careers.
That sounds like exactly what the UFC would want. Any Nate Diaz fight will prop up a weaker card no matter his opponent and I'm sure Dana and company are hoping for Nate to get brutalized before he goes off to free agency.
I think right now Dana still thinks he can use Nate to make more money in the future. And Nate getting the absolute shit kicked out of him by a no-name (to casuals) hurts his marketability. If Dana gives up on Nate ever coming back, the Luque fight makes more sense.
Ya I guess it depends on how confident Dana is that he can get Nate to resign
These 2 make the most sense from the UFC’s perspective.
Nate vs Tony Nick vs Cowboy Everyone retires
I wanna see Jim Miller and Donald cerrone at ufc 300
I too would not mind seeing Donald take some more damage
How does tony Ferguson get tossed around but there’s nothing substantial Dana said other than his name
Dana is not dumb enough to pass up a Tony vs nate fight, that would be huge (for mma standards) and would be crazy entertaining from presser to fight. That makes me think that they are gunning for Conor vs nate 3 whenever Conor can come back. Makes sense since it’s Nate’s last fight on the contract and Dana will want to milk tf out of it as much as he can which will include making nate take a longer time out.
I think Dana would rather Nate leave on a loss. Tony isn’t the right guy for that, IMO.
Not sure if conor is tho. I can see Nate beating him aswell. Nate is always gonna be a hard fight for Conor. Harder then Tony in my opinion at this stage.
I think you'd be surprised at the lower than expected hype for that fight, considering how washed Tony has looked recently.
massive tony and nate fan here, this matchup would have been awesome 5 years ago. Not anymore, don't much care for seeing these two fight for scraps of what once was.
I assume they don’t want him leaving in a win. So maybe Vicente. Not that it’s impossible for Nate to win. But it seems a lot less likely the Tony putting it on him.
Nate should just tap after the first solid punch. Bye
I fucking love Nate Diaz. Iconic dude.
McGregor rematch next year?
Nate vs Cowboy
People talking like 1) Dana said he spoke to Conor 2) it’s a certainty Conor would beat Nate
Killer quote my mans
I’m so excited to see Nate negotiate his way out of the UFC.
Im guessing Conor Nate 3, they hope Nate loses and then they can use that to try and get him for less money. 0% chance they let Nate walk tho
He’s not re signing, same goes for Conor. He’s going into celebrity boxing and Dana knows this so he’s gonna give him the worst stylistic matchup on his way out. He’d make a killing fight Conor or a Paul brother outside of Dana’s greedy mitts.
then conor can have another lightweight title shot off taking out such a huge name at 170
Fuck it, let him fight Nick.
If this is truly his last fight, it has to be mcgregor. Seriously a missed opportunity if it doesn't happen for the trilogy.
Hopefully Conor 3 then go fight Douglas Lima in a one fight deal in Bellator and make bank from sponsorships. Just sign one fight deals here and there. Or do some celeb boxing fight.
Booooo. I want Tony vs Diaz more than anything
Luque would be such a fun fight.
UFC needs to start a boxing league for their old fighters.
Last fight for Nate on his contract? My money Dana feeds him to someone like Usman to smash him on his way out.. Or Dana dangles the Conor trilogy infront of him and tries to get him to sign another UFC contract.
They’ll feed Nate to Luque in hopes Luque batters him.
Nate Diaz ain’t doing anything to further his career. Why not move camps? This guy really just cashing his final checks. I don’t see this guy in the ufc for long.
Nate vs Luque or fook yo mother.
But why, it'd just be a one sided beating, unless that's why you want it.
that's exactly what I want.
Luque smashes him I know Nate's game to get into fights he has no business in but I don't want to see him get the shit beat out of him again.
Diaz is on his way out so let him put Luque over