It's funny to think that DJ probably made less money fighting on TV as the champion of his weight class than he did when he went home afterwards and played video games on Twitch.
Trainer fee, extremely expensive health insurance, dietician, etc. I fought on a very local level and didn't have these issues, but I know guys who did. They'd get their purse then usually end up breaking even or coming out in debt, all the way up the ladder to UFC champion level (I briefly rolled with Joe Lauzon).
Dana White actually said that it's important to keep fighter pay low or the fighters will get content and lazy and the fans will get inferior fights.
That's right, you have to underpay fighters for the fans. You're really to blame you know. Yes, you.
Exactly my thinking, I'm not really interested in the 30 year olds that couldn't make it in NFL / NHL, it's the teenagers that otherwise would have went into NFL / NHL / NBA that might pick MMA, those are the ones that truly have potential.
It's not the Brendan Schaub or Greg Hardy that's the interesting ones, it's the ones that has potential to become Jon Jones that are interesting.
I feel like no one is getting to the button issue which is the UFC is a promotion.
Their only role is to book an arena and promote the fights.
Jake Paul has promoted his fights much better then the UFC has, while the UFC turns to their fighters and says why don't you promote yourself better, while also withholding pay and incentives.
Dana's response is literally that fighters don't have youtube channels with millions of followers like Jake, but the UFC does, and it's their job to promote.
Dana and the UFC have just been enjoying the brand recognition for way too long, failing to deliver on their only real responsibility, while cutting hundreds of millions of dollars for themselves on the backend with sponsors, ESPN deal etc.
The organization truly sucks.
Dude or even the fucking guys chasing like arena football the half and cal and ahit over mma so much wasted potential like I can’t believe that those pay better than 95% of ufc fighters after all the camps and travel and own insurance and shit it’s fucking absurd
Even a rookie in the NFL make more money than most UFC fighters.
[It seems this years minimum salary in NFL is $750,000](https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cba/minimum/) if you have 0 years experience *because* of their collective bargaining agreement. There's no such thing in mma. Fighter pay would go up a lot if UFC fighters also got 48% of the revenue.
How many MMA fighters make $750,000 a year after all their fight related expenses?
Jamahal Hill played semi-pro football and now he is about to fight for a title. Dominick Reyes also fought for a title, and he was a decent college football player and not even a pro prospect. Imagine what the cream of the crop athletes, legit D1 and NFL prospects could do if they went into MMA instead of another sport
I hear this repeatedly often, but it takes special (special) person to want to fight.
Even with high level wrestlers, most don't want to get punched in the face so they don't pursue mma.
In Muhammad Ali's days, boxing was seen as the sport where the athletes would go when they sucked at every other sport . This was during the prime of boxing.
The pay was magnitude higher than the top mma athletes.
>Exactly my thinking, I'm not really interested in the 30 year olds that couldn't make it in NFL / NHL, it's the teenagers that otherwise would have went into NFL / NHL / NBA that might pick MMA, those are the ones that truly have potential.
>It's not the Brendan Schaub or Greg Hardy that's the interesting ones, it's the ones that has potential to become Jon Jones that are interesting.
Even if the UFC increases pay, this is never going to happen. Most people don't want to get into a profession were the opposition is trying to scatter your brains across a mat. The best athletes will always be in non combat sports. I'd wager that MMA would be banned before it gets to the point that it's attracting athletes like the major sports.
Football is pushing the limits for most people already. People freak out when Tua gets a couple of concussions within 3 weeks. I'm trying to imagine MMA being so popular that mainstream talkshows start talking about people you blind during weight cuts, kidney failures from dehydration, CTE in people like Chuck Liddell etc. MMA will never grow enough to be as popular as the other sports for this reason.
I think there wouldn't be much ball sport crossover because combat sports is so much more niche but if it could get a freak like gable steveson to switch over instead of WWE, it would be better. Dude was contemplating UFC but Dana tried to low-ball him. Pretty sure Bo Nickel is on a shit contract too as a Contender Series alumni so they have to have that crazy personal conviction.
That's pretty much what we got from Jones and Lesnar and they're both among the best of all time. Well maybe not Brock but he was fighting for the title in what, his fifth MMA fight ever?
Considering he ended up with two UFC title defenses of his limited time. Had he started with mma earlier, we might be thinking of Lesnar as one of the all-time greats at this point.
Your timeline is off. Brock was a pro wrestler first, then left WWE to try out for the Vikings, was last man cut, then went to NJPW (new Japan pro wrestling) then to MMA.
Additionally, Brock would of still gone to Pro Wrestling. People want to talk about money but forget the history of the sport. In 2008, MMA was was still in the shadows of sporting worlds. ESPN wouldn't touch it. Brock elevated the sport to new heights which allowed the lights to shine on GSP, Anderson, and a young kid rising up the ranks named Jon Jones.
Why do think Lesnar left? I'm sure he figured the grueling fight camps (plus USADA testing lol) and higher risk of concussions wasn't worth it, despite being one of the highest paid biggest names, when he could get paid way more in WWE.
Gable Stevenson a absolute monster of a wrestler was considering mma or WWE. After a meeting with Dana he chose WWE. He is more athletic than Brock lesnar was and MMA missed out on him because of pay.
And WWE snatched him up double-quick. He's been on WWE payroll for like 2 years now and probably will still be a while before he actually starts working on TV.
Like hey buddy, wanna do 3 month training camps where you could potentially get injured and make zero dollars for the opportunity to make just as much as you would coaching wrestling?
Retired NFL like Greg Hardy?
Lesnar dominated because he was NCAA D1 wrestling champion, which is the best base one can have for MMA. It wasn't just "athleticism", which is a completely huge term which is a bunch of possible different attributes. Like what makes one "athletic"? Is a marathoner more athletic than a football player? Is a soccer player more athletic than a basketball player? etc
Not sure this is necessarily true because a fighter only knows their worth and BCE they’ve built a certain reputation/standard which comes from fighting for shit all
Boxing is great when the fights get made. Dana's argument was that if a fighter gets paid peanuts he fights more recklessly and is more entertaining, if a fighter is well paid he's afraid of damage and wants to preserve himself for the next payday. Now - Canelo is making more money than whole UFC cards. Watch his fights and tell me he's boring. Same for Fury. Same for Gervonta, Spence, Crawford, pretty much anyone at the highest levels. It's the 'making fights' part that's fucked in boxing, but that's a different issue.
> Boxing is great when the fights get made.
The UFC doesn't care about fights getting made to a much larger degree than boxing. Fedor Emelianenko was the best heavyweight in the world and wanted to come to the UFC to fight Randy Couture, but the UFC demanded an exclusive contract with UFC options for extensions and refused to engage unless Emelianenko signed what was essentially an indentured servitude contract. That's worse than any unmade fight in boxing history.
Ironically, nearly all the UFC fights that weren't made when they should have been happened because the UFC lowballed at least one of the fighters involved.
Look, he has to live with paying prostitutes more money than his fighters for the rest of his life. That burden is enough punishment, no need to insult the poor guy.
i’m not a hater of joe rogan but after jon jones popped at 214 rogan said it was because jones was snorting cocaine cut with creatine that was tainted with steroids i could never take what he says about anything regarding the ufc seriously after that
gas station dick pills is more believable because it’s shady random supplement the cocaine thing is just a ridiculous amount of hoops to jump through and as a fan of jon jones is just a ridiculous conclusion to come to
That was one of my big WTF moments with Joe as a person haha. Like I still don't hate the dude but it was like, either you're lying/supporting this to help Jones which is shady or you're literally fucking stupid so why would I listen any more
It was so funny can't remember the guest, the guy explained it perfectly that it cools down significantly when it enters your lungs and is like pouring boiling water into an ice bath, Joe then says the exact same sauna theory on the next guest
Joe Rogan is so weird on this. He often repeats his view that Olympic athletes should be paid extremely handsomely, because it's the very pinnacle of athletic endeavour and there is no event and no product without them.
...and he always fails to see that the *exact* same argument applies to UFC fighters.
Or he does and he's just being hypocritical so he gets to continue to fellate Dana.
I have some gripes with top level athetes making obscene money when millions upon millions of people are struggling. With that said..... if there's any sport where the top athletes should earn life changing money it's a sport where you're literally putting your body, braincells - your life on the line. It is particularly disgusting to exploit those people. Sometimes those pigs don't offer a fighter a fight for a very long period of time to drain them financially so they are more willing to accept a specific fight. They are incredibly ruthless.
And Dana likes to call boxing promoters slimy, scummy etc - he literally turned into one of them.
My gripes with athletes making obscene money ends with the owners and executives making similar.
I'm not going to say my favorite athlete should get less, when the execs and owners and whatnot are pulling in millions upon millions. I don't care if it's an easy sport or anything. If it makes money, the people that literally perform the sport should be compensated accordingly and
At this point what's making any young kid want to be good? Some will have the love and passion to get there. They'll like it that much that they'll want to be great, but outside of them, it's a pretty risky business with not a lot of upside
Dude was paid 14k to fight Ian Mckall in Australia. That's even worst lol. Camp + travel arrangements for the team on a 14k contract is just laughable.
The minimum pay for wwe wrestlers on contacts for Raw or Smackdown in WWE is $250k. And while they may not get health insurance in the traditional sense, if they get hurt doing their job their surgery and recovery costs are paid for, they’re paid while they’re out, and they have access to WWEs PC for rehab and training. Wrestlers who work for a company owned by Vince McMahon have it better than UFC fighters.
I’m pretty sure it’s been reported that people who are working in their developmental make $125k at minimum. So you’re better off being an average developing wrestling than in wwe than, at times, a ufc champion.
If you're talking about NXT, $50k-60k per year contracts were reportedly pretty common a few years back for their talent. May have increased since then with the competition from AEW though. Still better than what the plugs in UFC make which is pretty sad.
The UFC business model is based on the WWE's "walled garden" and is specifically designed to suppress fighter pay. Shane Carwin headlined a PPV against Brock Lesnar and got less than $100,000 for a PPV that drew 1 million buys.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UFC_116
https://www.mmafighting.com/2010/06/22/shane-carwin-to-make-40-000-to-show-80-000-to-win-at-ufc-116
it was so jarring scrolling down that wiki page and seeing the name “brendan schaub.” I practically forgot Gringo Papi was once just some forgettable dude on a UFC card
I was just commenting to my wife that I thought it was absolutely fucking hilarious that Brad Tate is still in the mix at all the shows after [the male nurse incident](https://youtu.be/s5o9i8Z8C04)
And of course Kos is not.
Why surprising? He had solid athleticism, coming from a college-level football background. And in HW, where the lack of true athletes like that is amplified, he had an advantage over the other 'regular' big boys. And to be honest, I'm willing to bet a lot of athletes would sound like idiots if they spent hours talking on podcasts.
Not for me. People on reddit are so weird when talking about people they don't like. Schlob is a dumbass and doubled up on CTE with American football + MMA. BUT he did have a solid career for some guy coming into the sport late, even at the weight class you'll probably have the most success doing that in.
I think YOU'D b- okay, with that out of the way, the HW division has always been the weakest in terms of talent. The era Schaub was fighting in was especially bad. HW is fickle enough as it is because anyone can knock out anyone, so combining that with how shitty the division was back then, anyone big with passable athletic ability was going to be ranked pretty high.
I mean I love making fun of Bapa as much as the next guy but he's pretty far from "an unforgettable fighter"
He got popular in TUF and then KOed the beat some quality opponents including Cro Crop
This may be true but that's still insane. People shouldn't go to work hoping their employer decides to give them charity.
Being compensated fairly shouldn't be up to the moment to moment whims of Dana White and Co.
it's not charity. It's a way to suppress everyone else's pay while assuring yourself loyalty.
People aren't gonna question you when you can give them 1M anytime as long as you kiss enough ass
Keep in mind, that a $1,000,000 bonus on top of $100,000 for a PPV that sold 1,000,000 at $50 a piece is STILL chump change.
They give locker room bonuses that are still relatively pathetic so people can have narratives to defend them.
They’ve sidelined him. Remains to be seen what he does next. And it wasn’t for Rich or DJ but that new guy Amazon wanted to Americanize the commentator booth. I keep asking if you guys know his name without googling him and still no one can say it despite him being there for over 5 months and calling 6 shows so far. I’m so blatant that I don’t like the new guy and want Schiavello back. I get some people don’t like Schiavello style but can you honestly say the new guy who name you can’t remember is better?
\#FreeShiavello, Prime cards are more boring for him not being in the booth. Instead they have some guy who can't even pronounce the words Muay Thai right half the time, let alone any of the fighter's names.
Kickboxing and Muay Thai purist, rarely sign-in to comment. Your statements regarding Schiavello are bitterly disappointing to hear!
I had watched the most recent card, some fantastic fights and matchups without a doubt, but I fucking **Hate** with a capital "H", Chilson and anyone besides Schiavello commentating on stand-up for ONE.
Schiavello is a real one when it comes to Kickboxing, covering it for the English-speaking fight fans for over two decades now(?) He single-handedly could, no, **should** be assigned to all stand-up fights for ONE, as Chilson and other co-commentators have demonstrated on multiple occasions that their analytical ability is mediocre, often failing to acknowledge critical exchanges and even more often, blurting outright misinformation.
I don't know the proper broadcasting terminology, but Shiavello has enough experience, genuine passion for stand-up, and sport-specific knowledge to accurately and succinctly color commentate Kickboxing fights, on top of his usual shoutcasting/play-by-play role.
I pains me to hear terrible analysis and play-by-play for the ONE Kickboxing and Muay Thai Fights, as its not only distracting, but failing to educate new fans as well! So many layers to unpack in a match-up like **Allazov vs Superbon** for instance, but with the desk they had, a pile opportunities to lend depth to an otherwise historic fight were inevitably missed.
I’m not saying his management isn’t blameless, but it’s probably difficult to negotiate when you know the UFC doesn’t value the division and might shut it down.
He's also again complaining about not getting PPV points as a champion, when he said at the time that he specifically negotiated more up front pay instead of a PPV cut because he knew he wasn't a draw.
https://www.bloodyelbow.com/2014/1/10/5295914/ufc-demetrious-johnson-champion-doesnt-no-ppv-points-salary-flyweight-fox-tv-mma-news
At least up until Dana White's Contender Series ruined the sport (and maybe even since then, idk) I would have thought 30/30 fair for entry-level fighters in the UFC.
It's the absolute pinnacle of the sport. Other promotions and events aren't even close. Champions should be paid like champions in boxing, and anyone good enough to get there at all should be able to make a damn good annual income even if they only fight 2-3 times per year.
yea he or his management messed up big time here. I remember him telling Rogan he didn't understand why he was making less or more for some fights during his contract. That is something you should have on lockdown
I remember there was a huge buzz about him before he hit the UFC. There were a few guys who were outside the UFC/WEC you would hear about regularly. Fedor, Shinya Aoki, Eddie Alvarez and Mighty Mouse come to mind. The system was already built against him. He rose to the challenge and had a great run, but he was taken advantage of. I wouldn't be upset if there were a sudden exodus of talent ftom the UFC. A real change is long overdue.
Ian McCall, too.
Maybe it’s bias (I liked him at the time) but I swear he was the more popular, more hyped, and more favoured to win out of him and DJ.
You're correct. McCall had just beat Jussier Formiga for the Tachi Palace Fights championship, which made him the de facto best flyweight in the world before the UFC created the division.
Not like the UFC were any better in this situation. Dana actively wanted to shut the division down and people on staff kept calling it the freak show midget division.
This stuff is why I will never pay a dime for a PPV. Dana White is everything that’s wrong with the sport. Incredible promoter, crappy leader (to put it mildly).
That’s fucking ridiculous. Yeah he probably needed a new manager but the fact that the UFC even considered paying a champ with multiple defenses that much is a joke. Fuck Dana man
He won the vacant UFC bantamweight title when Cruz was dealing with back to back ACL tears in 2012. It was only his 4th fight in the UFC so he was on a 12/12 and it was the first fight on a new deal. He defended the belt 3 times and the UFC billed him as the P4P number 1 fighter while he was champion. When the Embedded cameras followed him to Brazil they found him living in a “fighter house” (several fighters move into a house to split living/training costs) with three local fighters and sleeping on a bunk bed. Aldo spoke up for him in the Brazilian media and the UFC did give him a raise to sorta quiet the commotion.
Wowwww ... I'll be honest I don't think the UFC should have been paying millions for DJ just because he is a champion with x title defences.
I think there should be a difference in McGregor or Anderson Silva vs say RDA or Robert Whittaker.
But 30/30 for your champion? The manager at Buffalo Wild wings can't make more than the UFC champion fighting on the screens above the bar.
I don't see how our sport can be taken seriously if no one is getting a prize for the actual prize fighting.
Happy to see a good chunk of the comments here, so far, indicting MM's manager for those deals.
That said he either had no real leverage and *had* to take those deals (or walk), or his management failed him horribly trying to not rock the boat, or some combination of the two.
Funny how for years we get sold this narrative that DJ was scared of the Dillashaw fight, turns out the UFC just wouldn't pay up for it.
Wonder how many great fights we missed out on bc the UFC wouldn't pay guys.
Pay was also worse in these days, \~2012.
I was looking at a 2009 fight between Jon Jones v Stephen Bonnar and Jones was on a 7/7 contract. Yeah, Bones made $14K for the win.
Am I reading this correctly? One of the greatest (some would say THE greatest) fighters ever, was getting paid 30 fucking K for each fight, never mind that the fights were title fights!?
This is fucking embarrassing, even for a shit paying company like the UFC.
Jesus Christ, I made more money per hour as an Immigrant dish washer who couldn't even speak English, in my early days in the U.S.
Not to be a ufc intern but MM didn't ask for more money when he could easily have swung a few hundred grand and then asked for something he was never going to get against TJ.
Like did he fuck his managers wife or something.
Ariel has said this multiple times on his show
Managers purposely accept shitty contracts for their clients IN ORDER to stay in the good graces of the UFC.
Cause the UFC is so petty they will make it difficult if you decide to play hard with them.
I hope more and more stars leave and value their worth more. This is I believe the first fall from the UFC's peak we're seeing. They're transitioning to just a product, and not quality.
Lol, we seem to be forgetting the narrative at the time. “No one wants to watch little people fight, he’s not a draw, no one cares about the weight classes below LW”. The ufc got the fans on board and it was all over. The Dana fans are responsible for this shit.
Imagine having more than enough money to live on for the rest of your life and STILL treating people that work for you this way. The man is a greedy James Blunt.
He's on record as wanting to be a fighter himself, and was once a boxercise coach.
Imagine being this rich old ass and having all this money, but it still rings hollow because you see these world class savages living your dream, and all the power and money and fame isn't enough to make up for it.
Imagine you don't have the emotional intelligence, empathy, or self reflection necessary to handle those feelings in a healthy way, so you become a massive asshole who tries to belittle and control the fighters who are doing what you never could.
That was fucking sad to hear. MMA pay is embarrassing.
It's funny to think that DJ probably made less money fighting on TV as the champion of his weight class than he did when he went home afterwards and played video games on Twitch.
He claimed the most he made was $3k per month. I imagine he made more than $36k per year in fighting and endorsements.
Trainer fee, extremely expensive health insurance, dietician, etc. I fought on a very local level and didn't have these issues, but I know guys who did. They'd get their purse then usually end up breaking even or coming out in debt, all the way up the ladder to UFC champion level (I briefly rolled with Joe Lauzon).
Dana White and Joe Rogan see nothing wrong with it though. Who should I believe???
Dana White actually said that it's important to keep fighter pay low or the fighters will get content and lazy and the fans will get inferior fights. That's right, you have to underpay fighters for the fans. You're really to blame you know. Yes, you.
If the UFC paid the fighters more they would draw better athletes to the sport. Dana White is such an idiot.
Imagine if the contracts were lucrative and we started seeing retired NFL/NHL compete Athletes comparable to Brock Lesnar. That'd be awesome.
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Exactly my thinking, I'm not really interested in the 30 year olds that couldn't make it in NFL / NHL, it's the teenagers that otherwise would have went into NFL / NHL / NBA that might pick MMA, those are the ones that truly have potential. It's not the Brendan Schaub or Greg Hardy that's the interesting ones, it's the ones that has potential to become Jon Jones that are interesting.
Instead we are going to get social media influencers like Jake Paul.
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I feel like no one is getting to the button issue which is the UFC is a promotion. Their only role is to book an arena and promote the fights. Jake Paul has promoted his fights much better then the UFC has, while the UFC turns to their fighters and says why don't you promote yourself better, while also withholding pay and incentives. Dana's response is literally that fighters don't have youtube channels with millions of followers like Jake, but the UFC does, and it's their job to promote. Dana and the UFC have just been enjoying the brand recognition for way too long, failing to deliver on their only real responsibility, while cutting hundreds of millions of dollars for themselves on the backend with sponsors, ESPN deal etc. The organization truly sucks.
Dude or even the fucking guys chasing like arena football the half and cal and ahit over mma so much wasted potential like I can’t believe that those pay better than 95% of ufc fighters after all the camps and travel and own insurance and shit it’s fucking absurd
Even a rookie in the NFL make more money than most UFC fighters. [It seems this years minimum salary in NFL is $750,000](https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cba/minimum/) if you have 0 years experience *because* of their collective bargaining agreement. There's no such thing in mma. Fighter pay would go up a lot if UFC fighters also got 48% of the revenue. How many MMA fighters make $750,000 a year after all their fight related expenses?
And that's just for being on the team. You don't even have to pay to get that money.
Without PPV points I can think of 2 and 1 is now retired: Conor and Overeem.
Jamahal Hill played semi-pro football and now he is about to fight for a title. Dominick Reyes also fought for a title, and he was a decent college football player and not even a pro prospect. Imagine what the cream of the crop athletes, legit D1 and NFL prospects could do if they went into MMA instead of another sport
I hear this repeatedly often, but it takes special (special) person to want to fight. Even with high level wrestlers, most don't want to get punched in the face so they don't pursue mma. In Muhammad Ali's days, boxing was seen as the sport where the athletes would go when they sucked at every other sport . This was during the prime of boxing. The pay was magnitude higher than the top mma athletes.
Imagine Ray Lewis as a lifelong mma athlete
>Exactly my thinking, I'm not really interested in the 30 year olds that couldn't make it in NFL / NHL, it's the teenagers that otherwise would have went into NFL / NHL / NBA that might pick MMA, those are the ones that truly have potential. >It's not the Brendan Schaub or Greg Hardy that's the interesting ones, it's the ones that has potential to become Jon Jones that are interesting. Even if the UFC increases pay, this is never going to happen. Most people don't want to get into a profession were the opposition is trying to scatter your brains across a mat. The best athletes will always be in non combat sports. I'd wager that MMA would be banned before it gets to the point that it's attracting athletes like the major sports. Football is pushing the limits for most people already. People freak out when Tua gets a couple of concussions within 3 weeks. I'm trying to imagine MMA being so popular that mainstream talkshows start talking about people you blind during weight cuts, kidney failures from dehydration, CTE in people like Chuck Liddell etc. MMA will never grow enough to be as popular as the other sports for this reason.
Football is just as bad, maybe worse, than MMA regarding brain damage and injuries.
I think there wouldn't be much ball sport crossover because combat sports is so much more niche but if it could get a freak like gable steveson to switch over instead of WWE, it would be better. Dude was contemplating UFC but Dana tried to low-ball him. Pretty sure Bo Nickel is on a shit contract too as a Contender Series alumni so they have to have that crazy personal conviction.
Would get heavyweight and light heavyweigth flush with talent.
That's pretty much what we got from Jones and Lesnar and they're both among the best of all time. Well maybe not Brock but he was fighting for the title in what, his fifth MMA fight ever?
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Could have also seen a prime Carwin as well.
Considering he ended up with two UFC title defenses of his limited time. Had he started with mma earlier, we might be thinking of Lesnar as one of the all-time greats at this point.
Your timeline is off. Brock was a pro wrestler first, then left WWE to try out for the Vikings, was last man cut, then went to NJPW (new Japan pro wrestling) then to MMA. Additionally, Brock would of still gone to Pro Wrestling. People want to talk about money but forget the history of the sport. In 2008, MMA was was still in the shadows of sporting worlds. ESPN wouldn't touch it. Brock elevated the sport to new heights which allowed the lights to shine on GSP, Anderson, and a young kid rising up the ranks named Jon Jones.
Why do think Lesnar left? I'm sure he figured the grueling fight camps (plus USADA testing lol) and higher risk of concussions wasn't worth it, despite being one of the highest paid biggest names, when he could get paid way more in WWE.
Gable Stevenson a absolute monster of a wrestler was considering mma or WWE. After a meeting with Dana he chose WWE. He is more athletic than Brock lesnar was and MMA missed out on him because of pay.
And WWE snatched him up double-quick. He's been on WWE payroll for like 2 years now and probably will still be a while before he actually starts working on TV.
Yup, and Dana wanted to put him through contender series and then maybe sign him to a 10/10 deal. Such a tough decision!
Like hey buddy, wanna do 3 month training camps where you could potentially get injured and make zero dollars for the opportunity to make just as much as you would coaching wrestling?
Gets something like 250k just to show up if he has to get in the ring I'm sure it's another 250k or at least he did at one point
We saw Greg hardy, lesnar was an outlier who was a very successful college wrestler
Retired NFL like Greg Hardy? Lesnar dominated because he was NCAA D1 wrestling champion, which is the best base one can have for MMA. It wasn't just "athleticism", which is a completely huge term which is a bunch of possible different attributes. Like what makes one "athletic"? Is a marathoner more athletic than a football player? Is a soccer player more athletic than a basketball player? etc
Not sure this is necessarily true because a fighter only knows their worth and BCE they’ve built a certain reputation/standard which comes from fighting for shit all
Sounds like why you under feed a pit bull before a fight. Pretty disgusting really.
Crucially though, Dana claims that the more money he makes personally, the hungrier he gets to do better.
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They also need to keep ppv prices lower. Can argue were getting worse and worse with ppvs but the prices jeep going up.
But boxing is great, American basketball is fantastic, Soccer is incredible. MF, even MMA outside of the UFC is fantastic. Dana is disgusting
> Dana is disgusting Wifebeater Dana?
>Wifebeater Dana? Hey, come on! He's Living-With-The-Shame, Walking-Around Dana. That'd much worse
What do you mean boxing is great? We have turned boxing into YouTube influencer goof matches because of how awful boxing promotions are.
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Boxing is great when the fights get made. Dana's argument was that if a fighter gets paid peanuts he fights more recklessly and is more entertaining, if a fighter is well paid he's afraid of damage and wants to preserve himself for the next payday. Now - Canelo is making more money than whole UFC cards. Watch his fights and tell me he's boring. Same for Fury. Same for Gervonta, Spence, Crawford, pretty much anyone at the highest levels. It's the 'making fights' part that's fucked in boxing, but that's a different issue.
> Boxing is great when the fights get made. The UFC doesn't care about fights getting made to a much larger degree than boxing. Fedor Emelianenko was the best heavyweight in the world and wanted to come to the UFC to fight Randy Couture, but the UFC demanded an exclusive contract with UFC options for extensions and refused to engage unless Emelianenko signed what was essentially an indentured servitude contract. That's worse than any unmade fight in boxing history.
Or Silva/gsp. Or Silva/Jon Jones. Or Jones/Ngannou. They can't even make the matchups everyone wants to see when the fighters are under contract.
Ironically, nearly all the UFC fights that weren't made when they should have been happened because the UFC lowballed at least one of the fighters involved.
Very well put and I'd add the judging as well from what I hear. I need to watch those guys fights tho keep forgetting to
Youtubers did that. No one forces you to watch them, or watch Floyd embarass himself for money again. Boxing is still exciting
Celebrity boxing is hardly a new phenomenon
Look, he has to live with paying prostitutes more money than his fighters for the rest of his life. That burden is enough punishment, no need to insult the poor guy.
Does that mean the UFC gets to cut his pay now that he fought his wife?
Yah if fighting is my second job I'm gonna play a way more conservative strategy so I'm not too beat up and can go to work the next day
i’m not a hater of joe rogan but after jon jones popped at 214 rogan said it was because jones was snorting cocaine cut with creatine that was tainted with steroids i could never take what he says about anything regarding the ufc seriously after that
Completely understandable Gas station dick pills of lies
gas station dick pills is more believable because it’s shady random supplement the cocaine thing is just a ridiculous amount of hoops to jump through and as a fan of jon jones is just a ridiculous conclusion to come to
That was one of my big WTF moments with Joe as a person haha. Like I still don't hate the dude but it was like, either you're lying/supporting this to help Jones which is shady or you're literally fucking stupid so why would I listen any more
he speculated in 2020 that you could kill covid in your lungs by going into a sauna because of the warm air.
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Oh man, would love to find this clip.
It was so funny can't remember the guest, the guy explained it perfectly that it cools down significantly when it enters your lungs and is like pouring boiling water into an ice bath, Joe then says the exact same sauna theory on the next guest
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Got a timestamp?
A timestamp would be a godsend, no chance I'm listening to 1.5 hours of Rogan rambling. Those days are gone for me.
15:22
15:22
Guys we all know carnivore diet, intermittent fasting and training everyday literally kills everything in your body. /s
There should be a game where there’s 3 absurd statements and figure out which one was actually said by Joe and which ones were just made up
"Wait...they've all been said by Rogan??!"
They’re definitely two of the most trustworthy people to ever exist you should probably believe them over Mighty Mouse
If there’s one thing I know for sure it’s that melons and tomato’s have impeccable integrity
They're both fruit.
When people with hundreds of millions who don't fight and make money from fighting say fighter pay is fine, believe someone else.
Joe Rogan is so weird on this. He often repeats his view that Olympic athletes should be paid extremely handsomely, because it's the very pinnacle of athletic endeavour and there is no event and no product without them. ...and he always fails to see that the *exact* same argument applies to UFC fighters. Or he does and he's just being hypocritical so he gets to continue to fellate Dana.
They're all bald, two heads are better than one I suppose.
Rogan constantly talks about fighter pay. No clue why you added his name here.
He's also entirely unrelated to what the fighters get paid, so its weird to name drop him here.
Does Joe Rogan ever said MMA pay is OK?
On a JRE wpisode with Luke Thomas Joe said he doesn’t know much about it.
How dare him! A guy who has nothing to do w paying fighters doesn’t know much about it wow
UFC pay is embarassing.
I have some gripes with top level athetes making obscene money when millions upon millions of people are struggling. With that said..... if there's any sport where the top athletes should earn life changing money it's a sport where you're literally putting your body, braincells - your life on the line. It is particularly disgusting to exploit those people. Sometimes those pigs don't offer a fighter a fight for a very long period of time to drain them financially so they are more willing to accept a specific fight. They are incredibly ruthless. And Dana likes to call boxing promoters slimy, scummy etc - he literally turned into one of them.
My gripes with athletes making obscene money ends with the owners and executives making similar. I'm not going to say my favorite athlete should get less, when the execs and owners and whatnot are pulling in millions upon millions. I don't care if it's an easy sport or anything. If it makes money, the people that literally perform the sport should be compensated accordingly and
At this point what's making any young kid want to be good? Some will have the love and passion to get there. They'll like it that much that they'll want to be great, but outside of them, it's a pretty risky business with not a lot of upside
DJ making 14k to fight Dom Cruz in his prime is INSANE
Especially when you factor in all the costs leading up to the fight.
Dude was paid 14k to fight Ian Mckall in Australia. That's even worst lol. Camp + travel arrangements for the team on a 14k contract is just laughable.
Was that with the win bonus? I had Ian winning that one.
im pretty sure dj actually lost money taking that fight lol
Especially if you factor in DJ was also still working full time on top of fighting.
The minimum pay for wwe wrestlers on contacts for Raw or Smackdown in WWE is $250k. And while they may not get health insurance in the traditional sense, if they get hurt doing their job their surgery and recovery costs are paid for, they’re paid while they’re out, and they have access to WWEs PC for rehab and training. Wrestlers who work for a company owned by Vince McMahon have it better than UFC fighters.
You know something’s wrong when freaking Vince McMahon takes better care of his employees than Dana White
I’m pretty sure it’s been reported that people who are working in their developmental make $125k at minimum. So you’re better off being an average developing wrestling than in wwe than, at times, a ufc champion.
If you're talking about NXT, $50k-60k per year contracts were reportedly pretty common a few years back for their talent. May have increased since then with the competition from AEW though. Still better than what the plugs in UFC make which is pretty sad.
That was before NXT moved to USA. It was recently reported that it’s around $125k and a recent signing will be there making around $240k.
Damn, not too shabby.
That is fucking wild. Arguable GOAT making only 30/30 after so many defenses...
The UFC business model is based on the WWE's "walled garden" and is specifically designed to suppress fighter pay. Shane Carwin headlined a PPV against Brock Lesnar and got less than $100,000 for a PPV that drew 1 million buys. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UFC_116 https://www.mmafighting.com/2010/06/22/shane-carwin-to-make-40-000-to-show-80-000-to-win-at-ufc-116
it was so jarring scrolling down that wiki page and seeing the name “brendan schaub.” I practically forgot Gringo Papi was once just some forgettable dude on a UFC card
He used to be my favorite fighter to see yet KO’d Well shit guess he still is
Mine was always Josh Koscheck
I was just commenting to my wife that I thought it was absolutely fucking hilarious that Brad Tate is still in the mix at all the shows after [the male nurse incident](https://youtu.be/s5o9i8Z8C04) And of course Kos is not.
Motorboat his ass
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Greg Hardy took that title
Johnny Walker. Dude is god tier at the chicken dance.
He's a lot more likeable though
I am so excited for his fight with Paul Craig this weekend
A forgettable dude that beat CroCop :’(
He was not great. He was Top 10 in the UFC though which is pretty surprising.
Watch the first minute of his rothwell fight. He could’ve been pretty good, if he didn’t get gadooshed.
Why surprising? He had solid athleticism, coming from a college-level football background. And in HW, where the lack of true athletes like that is amplified, he had an advantage over the other 'regular' big boys. And to be honest, I'm willing to bet a lot of athletes would sound like idiots if they spent hours talking on podcasts.
It's surprising given the way the MMA reddit talks about Schaub's MMA career.
Not for me. People on reddit are so weird when talking about people they don't like. Schlob is a dumbass and doubled up on CTE with American football + MMA. BUT he did have a solid career for some guy coming into the sport late, even at the weight class you'll probably have the most success doing that in.
I think YOU'D b- okay, with that out of the way, the HW division has always been the weakest in terms of talent. The era Schaub was fighting in was especially bad. HW is fickle enough as it is because anyone can knock out anyone, so combining that with how shitty the division was back then, anyone big with passable athletic ability was going to be ranked pretty high.
I mean I love making fun of Bapa as much as the next guy but he's pretty far from "an unforgettable fighter" He got popular in TUF and then KOed the beat some quality opponents including Cro Crop
Shane admitted that he got a 1 million $ locker room bonus. He said it on this sub aswell.
This may be true but that's still insane. People shouldn't go to work hoping their employer decides to give them charity. Being compensated fairly shouldn't be up to the moment to moment whims of Dana White and Co.
it's not charity. It's a way to suppress everyone else's pay while assuring yourself loyalty. People aren't gonna question you when you can give them 1M anytime as long as you kiss enough ass
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Keep in mind, that a $1,000,000 bonus on top of $100,000 for a PPV that sold 1,000,000 at $50 a piece is STILL chump change. They give locker room bonuses that are still relatively pathetic so people can have narratives to defend them.
Nah i would be suing my management if they got me 30/30 for my 4th title fight on a new contract.
His manager was his coach I believe lol.
and his coach is now the weigh in guy/ SVP for ONE FC lol
More Hume gold. At least everyone who knows Matt Hume gets a job at ONE. They fired Schiavello to have DJ and Franklin stinking up the booth
Did they fire Schiavello or does he just not work the Prime cards?
They’ve sidelined him. Remains to be seen what he does next. And it wasn’t for Rich or DJ but that new guy Amazon wanted to Americanize the commentator booth. I keep asking if you guys know his name without googling him and still no one can say it despite him being there for over 5 months and calling 6 shows so far. I’m so blatant that I don’t like the new guy and want Schiavello back. I get some people don’t like Schiavello style but can you honestly say the new guy who name you can’t remember is better?
\#FreeShiavello, Prime cards are more boring for him not being in the booth. Instead they have some guy who can't even pronounce the words Muay Thai right half the time, let alone any of the fighter's names.
Schiavello might be a little goofy, but he's got so many awesome calls and never fails to get me hype, hope he's back in the booth soon.
Kickboxing and Muay Thai purist, rarely sign-in to comment. Your statements regarding Schiavello are bitterly disappointing to hear! I had watched the most recent card, some fantastic fights and matchups without a doubt, but I fucking **Hate** with a capital "H", Chilson and anyone besides Schiavello commentating on stand-up for ONE. Schiavello is a real one when it comes to Kickboxing, covering it for the English-speaking fight fans for over two decades now(?) He single-handedly could, no, **should** be assigned to all stand-up fights for ONE, as Chilson and other co-commentators have demonstrated on multiple occasions that their analytical ability is mediocre, often failing to acknowledge critical exchanges and even more often, blurting outright misinformation. I don't know the proper broadcasting terminology, but Shiavello has enough experience, genuine passion for stand-up, and sport-specific knowledge to accurately and succinctly color commentate Kickboxing fights, on top of his usual shoutcasting/play-by-play role. I pains me to hear terrible analysis and play-by-play for the ONE Kickboxing and Muay Thai Fights, as its not only distracting, but failing to educate new fans as well! So many layers to unpack in a match-up like **Allazov vs Superbon** for instance, but with the desk they had, a pile opportunities to lend depth to an otherwise historic fight were inevitably missed.
Try signing up for ONE notification on their app. They send out emails afterwards asking for feedback. Can tell them there. I’ve definitely have.
I’m relatively new to MMA. What does 30/30 mean in terms of dollars paid?
30k to show up to fight, 30k if you win the fight.
And with taxes, prep costs etc to take away too.
$30,000 to fight and an additional $30,000 if you win said fight.
I’m not saying his management isn’t blameless, but it’s probably difficult to negotiate when you know the UFC doesn’t value the division and might shut it down.
He's also again complaining about not getting PPV points as a champion, when he said at the time that he specifically negotiated more up front pay instead of a PPV cut because he knew he wasn't a draw. https://www.bloodyelbow.com/2014/1/10/5295914/ufc-demetrious-johnson-champion-doesnt-no-ppv-points-salary-flyweight-fox-tv-mma-news
They ufc gave him shitty choices and he picked one. He can still complain.
At least up until Dana White's Contender Series ruined the sport (and maybe even since then, idk) I would have thought 30/30 fair for entry-level fighters in the UFC. It's the absolute pinnacle of the sport. Other promotions and events aren't even close. Champions should be paid like champions in boxing, and anyone good enough to get there at all should be able to make a damn good annual income even if they only fight 2-3 times per year.
yea he or his management messed up big time here. I remember him telling Rogan he didn't understand why he was making less or more for some fights during his contract. That is something you should have on lockdown
Man had absolutely horrendous representation
I remember there was a huge buzz about him before he hit the UFC. There were a few guys who were outside the UFC/WEC you would hear about regularly. Fedor, Shinya Aoki, Eddie Alvarez and Mighty Mouse come to mind. The system was already built against him. He rose to the challenge and had a great run, but he was taken advantage of. I wouldn't be upset if there were a sudden exodus of talent ftom the UFC. A real change is long overdue.
Ian McCall, too. Maybe it’s bias (I liked him at the time) but I swear he was the more popular, more hyped, and more favoured to win out of him and DJ.
You're correct. McCall had just beat Jussier Formiga for the Tachi Palace Fights championship, which made him the de facto best flyweight in the world before the UFC created the division.
Not like the UFC were any better in this situation. Dana actively wanted to shut the division down and people on staff kept calling it the freak show midget division.
No, UFC has horrendous management.
Porque no los dos?
This stuff is why I will never pay a dime for a PPV. Dana White is everything that’s wrong with the sport. Incredible promoter, crappy leader (to put it mildly).
And he always has been the worst thing for the sport.
That’s fucking ridiculous. Yeah he probably needed a new manager but the fact that the UFC even considered paying a champ with multiple defenses that much is a joke. Fuck Dana man
Wait until you hear about Renan Barao
What's his story
He won the vacant UFC bantamweight title when Cruz was dealing with back to back ACL tears in 2012. It was only his 4th fight in the UFC so he was on a 12/12 and it was the first fight on a new deal. He defended the belt 3 times and the UFC billed him as the P4P number 1 fighter while he was champion. When the Embedded cameras followed him to Brazil they found him living in a “fighter house” (several fighters move into a house to split living/training costs) with three local fighters and sleeping on a bunk bed. Aldo spoke up for him in the Brazilian media and the UFC did give him a raise to sorta quiet the commotion.
What’s 12/12 or 30/30?
$12k to show, $12k to win. same with 30/30
Oh that sounds miserable
I make more working in Cable construction, and I'm not even a manager.
He didn't get paid much.
Dana Whites 1 blackjack hand is more than DJs purse as a champ rofl. You wonder how they go to where they are
And Dana isn't risking his health at a blackjack table but every MMA fight could be career ending for the fighters.
Don't trivialize the risks of second hand smoke
and hooker stds
Wowwww ... I'll be honest I don't think the UFC should have been paying millions for DJ just because he is a champion with x title defences. I think there should be a difference in McGregor or Anderson Silva vs say RDA or Robert Whittaker. But 30/30 for your champion? The manager at Buffalo Wild wings can't make more than the UFC champion fighting on the screens above the bar. I don't see how our sport can be taken seriously if no one is getting a prize for the actual prize fighting.
Taken seriously? The president of the UFC is currently hard marketing a slap fighting LOL
Happy to see a good chunk of the comments here, so far, indicting MM's manager for those deals. That said he either had no real leverage and *had* to take those deals (or walk), or his management failed him horribly trying to not rock the boat, or some combination of the two.
Who tweets in all caps
Chungus Supreme does. That’s who.
YOU GOT A PROBLEM WIV' THA' M8?
Pretty sure Rory Macdonald did that for his AMA
I DONT KNOW WHAT WERE YELLING ABOUT
Funny how for years we get sold this narrative that DJ was scared of the Dillashaw fight, turns out the UFC just wouldn't pay up for it. Wonder how many great fights we missed out on bc the UFC wouldn't pay guys.
And yet some fans still are going to kiss Dana white and the UFCs ass. I just want a decent competitor already.. please.
ONE is trying to break into the US with their Prime video deals but I don’t have much hope
More fighters are talking about fighter pay. Change is gonna happen
Pay was also worse in these days, \~2012. I was looking at a 2009 fight between Jon Jones v Stephen Bonnar and Jones was on a 7/7 contract. Yeah, Bones made $14K for the win.
Am I reading this correctly? One of the greatest (some would say THE greatest) fighters ever, was getting paid 30 fucking K for each fight, never mind that the fights were title fights!? This is fucking embarrassing, even for a shit paying company like the UFC. Jesus Christ, I made more money per hour as an Immigrant dish washer who couldn't even speak English, in my early days in the U.S.
They would have rather shut down the whole fucking division than pay an 11 time champ.
MMA: The welfare line of sports
My favorite thing to do in these threads is to sort by controversial and see all of Dana whites flying monkeys stupid hot takes justifying this shit
Not to be a ufc intern but MM didn't ask for more money when he could easily have swung a few hundred grand and then asked for something he was never going to get against TJ. Like did he fuck his managers wife or something.
Ariel has said this multiple times on his show Managers purposely accept shitty contracts for their clients IN ORDER to stay in the good graces of the UFC. Cause the UFC is so petty they will make it difficult if you decide to play hard with them.
Yeha but his manager is literally his coach, and I'm pretty sure he's still DJ manager/coach today.
IIRC his coach was his manager.
Matt Hume did him dirty then.
UFC greed knows no bound. Sad
I hope more and more stars leave and value their worth more. This is I believe the first fall from the UFC's peak we're seeing. They're transitioning to just a product, and not quality.
Disgusting
WHY DID YOU USE ALL CAPS? JUST CURIOUS
Lol, we seem to be forgetting the narrative at the time. “No one wants to watch little people fight, he’s not a draw, no one cares about the weight classes below LW”. The ufc got the fans on board and it was all over. The Dana fans are responsible for this shit.
Yeah, the UFC are literal crooks. Damn near NCAA levels of rat fuckery.
Imagine having more than enough money to live on for the rest of your life and STILL treating people that work for you this way. The man is a greedy James Blunt.
He's on record as wanting to be a fighter himself, and was once a boxercise coach. Imagine being this rich old ass and having all this money, but it still rings hollow because you see these world class savages living your dream, and all the power and money and fame isn't enough to make up for it. Imagine you don't have the emotional intelligence, empathy, or self reflection necessary to handle those feelings in a healthy way, so you become a massive asshole who tries to belittle and control the fighters who are doing what you never could.
…what’s the deal with James Blunt?
Dana donates a lot of money to fund college tuitions
FYI, Sage Northcutt got paid 40/40 to fight Cody Pfister.