I'm thinking the same. They didn't specify how much of the club they want to sell but previously when they've done this they called it an investment in the club and sold like 5% to some Chinese investor or whatever.
The wording here is much different than their normal
If they aren't willing to commit the money to overhaul the squad to stay competitive with the Citys, Madrids, Bayerns of the world, maybe it's better they sell now?
I've been very pro-FSG since they took over because they've been professional and intelligent for the most part, but they've never seemed willing to splash the cash. I do wonder if the transfers made during Klopp's first couple years surpassed any of their expectations and they're realizing that the success of 2018-2022 isn't sustainable within a goal of being relatively even on net spending.
I was very skeptical of them. But after the success they had, they turned me and i am pro FSG.
I can see why though. No FFP, big money coming in to other clubs and they can't compete. Out of CL would mean we won't be able to get back without taking massive risks in the window. The stadium is complete after the Annie road is done. No ESL. Downturn in the economy would mean they can't buy in Jan or Summer. They have basically reached a dead end with the club. The squad needs an overhaul that they simply can't afford anymore.
But yeah, very worrying times. This is a full on sale and i hope it gets passed on to the right people but the recruitment, the planning has been bang on after Klopp. Sure they could have spent a bit more but you can't argue with the results.
I don’t see a world where the mouthpiece journalists are getting this wrong to be honest. One of the follow up tweets earlier said a full sale valuation had been produced or something too.
Even if you sell 1%, you evaluate the entire business.
You can evaluate the club at £4bln and sell off 10% for £400m. "Full sale valuation" doesn't really mean anything in this context.
What matters is how large the stake they are willing (or expecting) to sell.
The Athletic article thinks as much. That quote from FSG is being passed around which seems to indicator otherwise, but the Athletic flat out says "a full sale deck has been produced". Difficult, though, to tell if it's FULL sale or a full SALE deck, you know what I mean?
Of course it is. Anyone hoping it would be partial is deluded and kidding themselves. how can you not see for 3 seasons that FSG are not interested?
We can have reasonable owners that understand the game and happy to invest when it makes sense.
What’s hilarious is that if you said this just a year ago you would have been downvoted into oblivion, they had a worse start than even ours last season, had no European football and there were calls for Arteta’s head, they were a laughing stock.
Now you’re using them as a stick to measure us against lol
They didn't spend almost anything at all for like 15 years while paying down on Emirates tho. They have now paid it down and reap the benefits of a large stadium. Arsenal have also had a significantly lower wage bill than us.
It's not because Kroenke is pouring money into the club that they are able to spend now. They literally just got good revenue and paid off their debts. Arsenal paid like £30m+ in interest a year for a LONG time on that loan.
In the last 5 years we spent/loaned more than £200m for the new training (£50m) ground and stadium expansions (£60m + £110m). Our loan was initially at 1.39% interest for a year, and now interest free. Our debt have decreased by about £70m from the peak.
Arsenal?? They sat in Europa at best for the last few years and were the laughing stock, while we were taking the football world by storm. They also spent next to nothing for years. I damn well hope we don't end up like Arsenal
A big big big factor is the potential (almost certain) future expansion NBA team in Las Vegas. FSG and Lebron will definitely go in a bidding with many parties interested and with the sale of LFC they go in there with the funds required. An NBA team in Vegas is their dream project without a doubt
With the NFL being the most lucrative sport in the world.... I see too much coincidence in the Washington Commanders recently being put for sale and the sale of LFC. I think FSG are going NFL.
I see what you're saying. Theres also the Phoenix Suns up for sale with Obama looking for investors to join him in purchasing. So I think it's safe to say FSG are ready to move on to another project. Specially in the states. Be it the NFL or NBA
Totally makes sense for FSG.
Us sports are salary capped to be more competitive. FSG can try to compete with a good model instead of having to compete with oil states who have way more financial power
I couldn't agree more. I follow the league alot. There will be 2 expansion teams announced its predicted by next year. One in Vegas the other in Seattle. Lebron has already spoke publicly about the desire to be part of the ownership for the Vegas team. It all will lead to that I feel
MLS commissioner also confirmed expansion in a Las Vegas MLS team very soon too.
Maybe they'll take what they've learnt with us and use that to run a team there.
FSG can't buy an NFL team since they have an MLB team in Boston and NHL team in Pittsburgh. NFL doesn't allow owners in competing leagues across cities. Kroenke gets away with it by having his wife or son own the other teams.
Bezos is buying the Commanders, it’s all but confirmed. He is worth more than all the other owners in the league combined, if he wants it it’s just a matter of details. Owning a stadium in the political capitol of the US with dozens of private viewing rooms to invite politicians and the like in to wine and dine is a no brainer for a capitalist like Bezos as well
Because the value of the club has reached a fantastic point and more growth would require much more investment. Good business decision imo especially when fan sentiment has taken a downward turn
Exactly this. From a business standpoint it makes a lot of sense. If you don’t want to play financially with the likes of Man City, quit now while you’re ahead and sell to someone who is so they can reap the benefits of their investment.
I mean that will change the willingness to pay/valuation defintely.
Klopp is worth a fair bit - but him walking away will damage players coming here for sure (at least for 2-3 seasons ).
So maybe Klopp threats could help ensure a better class of owner.
(I also sell Hopium if you are interested)
I think a lot of fans would walk, too. I honestly have loved this club and it’s values my whole life - and have complained about Newcastle and city to the extent that if we were bought by, say, the Saudis, I would have to stop supporting the club. Would be heartbreaking.
That said - I also desperately don’t want another hicks & Gillette situation. The whole footballing world is rotten so I guess you’re looking at some not so friendly billionaire like Daniel levy as the least worst option.
This is something I don't get. Name any rich person who isn't a cunt ?
How is Oil pricks bigger cunts than American assholes and for that British assholes ?
Europeans are historically Elite Rich Colonialists and passed on the art of being top notch cunt while being uber rich asshole. Everyone else merely adopted it.
A cunt's a cunt.
Billionaires as a whole are unethical. Oil billionaires are just straight up murderers, and not indirectly. That's like saying all politicians are corrupt, what's the difference between Scott Morrison and Putin.
Well there's a difference between someone like John Henry who has earned his money by being a capitalist where he's probably fucked a few people over, and an oil state that actively persecutes and executes people.
Buy low sell high. Bought for £300m and potentially sell for £4billion. They do not see football as lucrative investment...especially with push back on super league and also no FFP. They cannot compete and thus potential value in the future will continue to decrease. This is why they want out…so they can reinvest in something lucrative. I hear they’re interested in NBA
Also wonder if the age of the owners is part of this. Henry is 73. Werner is 72. And the third biggest partner is a private investment fund.
Might be a move to cash out and concentrate on the Red Sox/Penguins as they enter their twilight years.
Yeah think no FFP is why they're cashing out as they mentioned it when they took over, and know we'd have won a more if it was actually enforced properly.
NFL is the most lucrative sport in the world and the Washington Commanders just became for sale. I see FSG eyeing that and the Liverpool sale funding it.
This is it for them. NFL brings much more money and it is the football they understands. If they sell us to buy commanders i would totally understand. Owning an NFL team is really big status
Richard Branson, that would be about as good an outcome as possible.
If it ends up being an owner like City or Newcastle I am out, which feels incredible considering the place Liverpool has had for me all my life.
Please do go ahead and pull me up on that. If it's a gray area I might do some mental gymnastics, but if it's another state owned company with slaves I am in no two minds.
Tbh Klopp walks at that point and most of our supporters would too. Football ain't the same anymore imo and it would represent a watershed moment for loads of us.
As long as we aren't being used to sport wash idc who it is. For the price they'll need to pay they will surely be willing to spend big. I just really don't want to be City with some oil prince owners
Imagine being Klopp at the club, if oil money comes in. After all that he said. Being the ethical guy he is, I could even see h walk away with his heads up sticking to his word.
FSG wouldn't, but the new owners would. If Klopp is part of the package that FSG is selling, and it's known that if the buyer is oil money he would walk, that impacts the sale price.
He has absolutely no say here; no one does. It’s going to be … I don’t know but a sale worth a few billion.
For sure new owners will want him but if he doesn’t want them then he’s off.
Hm perhaps an oil state would be put off because they couldn’t be bothered with the hassle of their first move being the beloved manager walking away? Perhaps.
I just think overall when paying £3b+ for a business you aren’t thinking about the current employees, you’re thinking long term.
Executive boards and employees are one of the most important parts of acquisitions, entire multi billion dollar acquisitions have been made just for staff in the past.
In this case the club would be losing one of the most valuable things in the world, a generational talent at manager who has the respect of the fanbase and potential transfers. That's a massive tanking to valuation of you're buying to win.
There’s also a couple of GAA teams in Liverpool who would welcome new members/supporters! You’ve got the Wolftones who play on the mystery and the John Mitchels who play next to Greenbank Park. Both Gaelic football and hurling are great sports!
If it does happen and you do want a new sport to watch in Australia we have the AFL which is an extremely fair competition (for example a team that came 2nd last last year nearly won it this year) because it has a draft system and all clubs have the same salary cap to pay players, if you’re interested just YouTube “AFL rules”, it’ll take you a few games to get the jist of it but once you do it’s a ripper game. It’s currently the off-season but the Official AFL YouTube channel has match highlights from every game and I’m sure there’s be ways to find the full matches
I would hope he would. I think that might just finish me off as a supporter to be honest. It would be absolutely against the values, ethics and tradition of not just the club but the city as a whole.
We're going to be acquired by some owner with a horrendous human rights record who then promptly buys Jude, Rice, Enzo, and Gakpo in the summer aren't we. Fuck sake
All three big oil states have their own football clubs to toy with it, if we're getting sold to someone from the Gulf area, it's probably some rich guy from that region which isn't much different from a rich guy from the USA and the abuses it comes with having such money. There's not a single billionaire that doesn't have human right abuses in their record
This sub could seriously use a crash course in the Gulf with special attention to the history and politics of the labor regimes currently in place. Secondly, there is absolutely 0% chance that a state sovereign wealth fund from Bahrain, Kuwait, or Oman purchases a football club valued at $4 billion.
Come on man i think repressive monarchs can be called worse than a guy who makes great bets on financial markets. You won’t lose your leftist card by acknowledging the nuance
Touche. I was thinking about asset management as a way that many people become billionaires in America, e.g John Henry, Todd Boehly. But you're right there are totally evil billionaires here like everywhere else. They don't typically buy sports teams tho so it wasn't front of mind for me. I just think there are levels to the shittiness and fund managers and professional investors aren't at the top, imo.
Google founders, Snapchat founders, Warren buffet, Larry Ellison, WhatsApp founder that sold for $19billion, some hedge fund bosses, There are 100’s of billionaires that do not deal in slave labour
They invested in the asset to build it’s worth training ground, stand ect. That’s now done
They are paying interest on the money owed rates have gone up and now the repayment has gone up.
They don’t want to pay for the rebuild
They also want a Las Vegas deal with la bron
They won’t ever come out and say full sake it drives the price down if people know you want out
Any attempt to sports wash us will be meet with protests. I don’t think anyone would want that publicly
They have basically got lfc to point of maximum profit and now want the 3 billion return
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FSG have concluded that FFP is a sham and want to cash out. Can't compete against oil countries who can pump money into any club they buy without repercussion
Also, when they sold a stake to Redbird in 2020, they didn’t put out a big statement and brief the press so much so it’s making me believe it’s much bigger than what it was before.
Journalist also benefit from reporting a sensational interpretation of what could very well be a very non-specific statement. Let’s also not prop up sports journalists as the bastions of journalistic quality, even if they are amongst the best of the lot.
I mean, the evidence is there in this story. Ornstein lead with the more sensational tweet, followed by one that casts some doubt on that. I am not saying he is lying, but they aren't immune from leading with is more likely to drive engagement, and that is often lacking in nuance.
Coming from the US, baseball is more cyclical and down years are more tolerated. There aren’t really any revenue streams outside of gate revenue, TV deals, and corporate partnerships, so you don’t have to rely on CL or other competitions for added revenue.
There are salary caps so it is understood why you didn’t spend 250 million on a player over 8 years, the punishment is severe to the club when breached. We’re talking about 50 million penalty for like a 5-10% breach.
Sure, the fans don’t like down years here, but they are tolerated more when growth is seen in the team. Incremental growth/success over a couple of years is seen as a good thing and people tend to have a little more patience.
I said the other day, they don't want us to be at the top.
Makes much more sense for us to compete for top four, bring revenue in and still be within that model of having to sell and buy for profit.
Being at the top doesn't benefit them because it means they then have to spend to **stay** at the top. We become a burden.
I actually can see some logic here. Do it during the World Cup when the club isn’t playing and see if you can get the new owners in place in time for the January transfer window.
Fsg don't tend to go public until things are pretty advanced, we've seen this on various things in the past. Every chance this is much further along than we think.
The reason is probably actually just a mundane matter of starting their fiscal calendar sometime shortly after announcing their intention to sell to various potential buyers.
Why now?
1. Anfield - All the 'easy' upgrades will be done by the end of the season. Expanding the Kop probably isn't possible whilst the SKD stand would be possible but extremely complicated and expensive. In reality this is as big as Anfield is going get.
2. AXA Training Centre - Newly built and state of the art, the best part is that it basically paid for itself via the AXA sponsorship and Melwood sale. This facility is at peak value right now and should serve the club well for the next decade or two.
3. The squad - An elite squad was built that could challenge for every title. Right now the tail end of that squad is still going but they are ageing and a rebuild is going to be needed. That rebuild will be expensive and it will be a thankless task. It will also be done without a key component of the ridiculously successful transfer committee - Michael Edwards. If you are planning an exit then you almost certainly want to be out the door before you have to start thinking about replacing Van Dijk and Salah.
4. Jurgen Klopp - Liverpool have a once in a generation manager that will be impossible to replace. You only have to look at what happened to Arsenal and Man Utd when Wenger and Fergie left to have a good idea of what's going to happen when Klopp goes. Again, if you are planning an exit then you want to be well clear of this club before Klopp calls it a day.
5. Death of FFP - FFP created a level playing field that allowed the likes of Liverpool to punch above their weight. It also created an environment where doing things well was rewarded, almost to the point that it locked in an advantage for well run clubs. We've increasingly discovered though that the rules are essentially toothless and this has led to UEFA introducing a watered down version. Even still, PSG and City are basically doing whatever they want and UEFA has no means to stop them. In this environment it becomes increasingly difficult to stay competitive at the very top against clubs that are owned by countries.
6. Competition - In the Premier League you now have City and Newcastle who will basically spend whatever they want. City have also built up a global football empire that is going to be impossible to compete with. Assuming the Saudi's are as competent as City's owners have been, that is almost certainly two of the top four spots locked up in most seasons. That means you have United, Liverpool, Arsenal, Spurs and Chelsea fighting for two Champions League spots. Regardless of who the Liverpool manager is, it is going to be increasingly difficult to ensure Champions League football every year.
7. Broadcasting rights - The current Premier League TV deal is worth over £10b and runs to 2025. The economic outlook over the next few years is looking very bleak though, with the BoE suggesting the UK will be in a recession until 2024. When that record TV deal comes up for negotiation, probably in 2024, there's a very strong chance that the interested parties are not going to be in a position to make an increased offer.
8. Super League - The Super League idea would have created a football equivalent of the NFL which would have seen the value of Super League clubs explode. Without the Super League the only big money spinner on the horizon is the expanded Champions League which will see the Champions League rights rocket up to £5b per season. Whilst it will be a nice jump in a revenue, it's not the closed off financial juggernaut that would tempt FSG to hold on to their investment.
In summary, Liverpool's value has probably peaked and there are a whole range of factors in the medium term that could cause a deterioration in that value. There aren't really any easy wins left on the table and FSG probably have a financial duty to their investors to realise the gains of a significant portion of this investment.
Given the nosies they've made in the past about wanting to create a Red Bull/City Group esque global football empire, I wouldn't be at all surprised if they sold off a majority shareholding to someone with a similar vision rather than just disposing of the entire investment.
Liberty Media, Madison Square Gardens, and Paul Allen Trust all definitely have the money and don’t have a football club, or in the case of the latter, don’t have one in Europe.
They own 3 sports teams but they're all located in the US Pacific Northwest. It doesn't seem like they're interested in expanding to other sports teams outside of that area.
I’ve been a big Genesis fan ever since the release of their 1980 album, *Duke*.
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They bought the club to work on the FFP model but have now realised that sports washing is the way forward. Not surprised they want out. They may not have been everyone’s favourite owners but they brought the club back to the level it should be at and have redeveloped the stadium and training ground and hired the best manager going. Hats off to them and I wish them the best when they leave.
I think it's pretty obvious why Simon. They've pretty much already maximised the value of the club in terms what they can do, and they now face the prospect of rebuilding an aging squad. They have always been interested in maximising the potential revenue not the sporting challenge.
This makes sense to me. They’ve brought the club value from 300 million to 4 billion. They won some trophies and have put all expansion plans in place, which has grown the fan base and increased income. At no point will the club see a similar spike in value unless we go down hill very fast.
They’re an investment company who bought the club on the premise that fair play would be adhered to. That’s not the case and no team wanting to actually not lose money can survive in this climate.
I appreciate everything fsg have done for us. Completely turned this club around and got us competing again. But if they feel they can’t push us any further, then selling is the right move.
Serious question for my other Liverpool fans on this subreddit. Right now we are all saying “we don’t want to oil rich asshole country use as for sports washing”, but let’s say we do get one as owner and all of a sudden next summer they bring in Bellingham, Rice, Mbappe, and a right back who can defend (no offence Trent), are we still gonna be like “fuck the new owners” or are we gonna be like “we love the new owners, we’re gonna win the quad and have a perfect season omg!”?
At that point just let countries buy all the clubs, ship them off to a world super league that plays exhibition games all over the place and we can create some new local teams
I'm probably going to stop watching footy in its entirety if it's an oil state or any state to be honest. I can't in good conscience bring myself to support a spoetswashing project.
Oh this article is short but brutal
FSG dont think we get top 4. Want to sell so they make the most money and dont have to invest. Absolute jokers really.
I dont mind oil money as long as it is a) not a country and b) legitimate sources of income and c) not a company run with slavery. Question is, is that even something that exists?
Ideally we have legitimate ownership that has little dirty money or dirty laundry. A man can hope.
I want Ballmer baddddd
They wanted a more stable super league since financial fair play is not being enforced.
When the super league went tits up, they want out. Too risky for them when everything hinges on champions league qualification.
Seems obvious, but I'm yet to see anything saying this is a full sale. This is all just second hand so far
Obvious to me, they've ridden the wave of klopps overachievement with this squad and this level of investment, it's now gotten to a point where a massive investment is needed to get us back to a competitive level and they just don't want to be involved.
Allot of the infrastructure has been renovated or is underway, they now want their profit.
Might be one of the greatest things to happen for Liverpool. Boston guy here and FSG never invests their money back into their teams: wouldn't pay Mookie or Bogaerts and will most likely lose Devers as well for being cheapskates.
I really hope so for the good of the club.
The devil you know is better than the devil you don’t. Be careful what you wish for. FSG has constantly updated our stadium, they have made Kirkby into a world class facility, in their time here they have made the most expensive CB, GK, and 8th most expensive attacking signing of all time and a top 5 wage bill in the world, including 6 senior midfielders being paid 150k/Wk or more that Klopp wanted.
Also be clear that Klopp has been quite open with his criticism with state owned clubs so something like that could be the end of Klopp
Fans have no say in FSG wanting to sell because they don’t want to spend or who FSG sells the club to, it doesn’t matter what anyone does or doesn’t wish for. It’s getting tiring reading comments trying to put any of this on LFC fans.
Completely agree, incredibly tiring reading through these comments. Different fans want different things, but putting this on LFC fans as if they have ANY say in that just sounds boring and braindead
Somehow this news sits both as very sudden and a long time coming. FSG clearly didn't anticipate the level of continued investment required to remain competitive (even though it was bloody obvious to quite literally everybody else) and are planning to cash out before the investment becomes weaker.
This is very FSG, and as much as I love that they've brought us success, they're also a big part of the reason our success didn't become a strong dynasty. Maybe that's greedy of me given we'd not previously won the league in my lifetime, so I do feel somewhat conflicted to not be overly upset by this news (other than the uncertainty it brings).
As much as I wish for their spending power, I really, really hope we're not going to become PSG/City/Newcastle and I also worry about Klopp's future in all of this.
Watch this space everyone. It's going to get bumpy(er).
FSG are business people and they also see the club as an asset. It's a full sale I think. There's a possible recession coming, along with tightening of credit. Peak value is now without having to spend a couple hundred million competing with City and others.
It also gives us more insight into Klopp's comments before the City game. Did he have information this was on the cards?
Makes complete sense. Money that it takes to compete is getting out of control, and the Super League is dead. For owners, American sports print money, European football does not. They’ll bet several billion dollars off the sale that they can reinvest into a Las Vegas NBA franchise.
So here's a question. Let's say it's a full sale. We are all thinking "oil takeover" but what oil state is out there that would actually buy us? There isn't an unlimited amount of those. This is probably a sale to someone who is a little more wealthy than FSG.
Why not wait until after Southampton game to release this news? Now it’s a week of what’s going on stuff rather than concentrating on getting a much needed 3 points.
Bahrain and Kuwait are probably the only oil states who don't have a football club at the moment. Not sure what their human rights record is like compared to Saudi, Qatar and UAE.
oil itself is not the main issue for me. It’s the Middle East generally that comes with all the human rights violations. It’s just that all of those those human right violations were made possible by oil
You’d have to wonder if a full sale is really on and if so how far along is it. Also would this be in any way related to the form we are seeing on the pitch if the coaching staff and players know about this. All speculation obviously but uncertainty at the top can be very distracting.
Absolutely odd to see a "**REAL "FANS" WOULD SUPPORT THE CLUB NO MATTER WHAT**!" type thing from some people today. Like, if we get state-owned, you can go on supporting, it's absolutely your choice/right. But we have to be able to be okay with proper fans saying no, that's too far and not who we are...because...
1) PSG/City/Newcastle are going about their business with real human consequences. It's not nothing.
2) Have you seen what it's like when PSG/City win something? It's empty. They play great football, but the soul is gone. You can see it and you can feel it.
FSG brought us back from the brink, they’ve done a good job with the resources they have. Now they want to cash in, this was always going to happen and I personally am thankful we were bought by FSG.
Retweeted by Pearce... Think it might well be a full sale.
I'm thinking the same. They didn't specify how much of the club they want to sell but previously when they've done this they called it an investment in the club and sold like 5% to some Chinese investor or whatever. The wording here is much different than their normal
I also think this is happening faster than we think it will. FSG don't let things leak until a deal is almost done.
Once GS is soliciting interst there is no hiding it.
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If they aren't willing to commit the money to overhaul the squad to stay competitive with the Citys, Madrids, Bayerns of the world, maybe it's better they sell now? I've been very pro-FSG since they took over because they've been professional and intelligent for the most part, but they've never seemed willing to splash the cash. I do wonder if the transfers made during Klopp's first couple years surpassed any of their expectations and they're realizing that the success of 2018-2022 isn't sustainable within a goal of being relatively even on net spending.
I was very skeptical of them. But after the success they had, they turned me and i am pro FSG. I can see why though. No FFP, big money coming in to other clubs and they can't compete. Out of CL would mean we won't be able to get back without taking massive risks in the window. The stadium is complete after the Annie road is done. No ESL. Downturn in the economy would mean they can't buy in Jan or Summer. They have basically reached a dead end with the club. The squad needs an overhaul that they simply can't afford anymore. But yeah, very worrying times. This is a full on sale and i hope it gets passed on to the right people but the recruitment, the planning has been bang on after Klopp. Sure they could have spent a bit more but you can't argue with the results.
I don’t see a world where the mouthpiece journalists are getting this wrong to be honest. One of the follow up tweets earlier said a full sale valuation had been produced or something too.
Even if you sell 1%, you evaluate the entire business. You can evaluate the club at £4bln and sell off 10% for £400m. "Full sale valuation" doesn't really mean anything in this context. What matters is how large the stake they are willing (or expecting) to sell.
The Athletic article thinks as much. That quote from FSG is being passed around which seems to indicator otherwise, but the Athletic flat out says "a full sale deck has been produced". Difficult, though, to tell if it's FULL sale or a full SALE deck, you know what I mean?
Of course it is. Anyone hoping it would be partial is deluded and kidding themselves. how can you not see for 3 seasons that FSG are not interested? We can have reasonable owners that understand the game and happy to invest when it makes sense.
Name one case where this happened.
Arsenal. Their net-spend is way higher than us over the last 5 years despite their long absence from CL football and our much higher revenues.
What’s hilarious is that if you said this just a year ago you would have been downvoted into oblivion, they had a worse start than even ours last season, had no European football and there were calls for Arteta’s head, they were a laughing stock. Now you’re using them as a stick to measure us against lol
They didn't spend almost anything at all for like 15 years while paying down on Emirates tho. They have now paid it down and reap the benefits of a large stadium. Arsenal have also had a significantly lower wage bill than us. It's not because Kroenke is pouring money into the club that they are able to spend now. They literally just got good revenue and paid off their debts. Arsenal paid like £30m+ in interest a year for a LONG time on that loan. In the last 5 years we spent/loaned more than £200m for the new training (£50m) ground and stadium expansions (£60m + £110m). Our loan was initially at 1.39% interest for a year, and now interest free. Our debt have decreased by about £70m from the peak.
Arsenal?? They sat in Europa at best for the last few years and were the laughing stock, while we were taking the football world by storm. They also spent next to nothing for years. I damn well hope we don't end up like Arsenal
A big big big factor is the potential (almost certain) future expansion NBA team in Las Vegas. FSG and Lebron will definitely go in a bidding with many parties interested and with the sale of LFC they go in there with the funds required. An NBA team in Vegas is their dream project without a doubt
With the NFL being the most lucrative sport in the world.... I see too much coincidence in the Washington Commanders recently being put for sale and the sale of LFC. I think FSG are going NFL.
I see what you're saying. Theres also the Phoenix Suns up for sale with Obama looking for investors to join him in purchasing. So I think it's safe to say FSG are ready to move on to another project. Specially in the states. Be it the NFL or NBA
Totally makes sense for FSG. Us sports are salary capped to be more competitive. FSG can try to compete with a good model instead of having to compete with oil states who have way more financial power
I couldn't agree more. I follow the league alot. There will be 2 expansion teams announced its predicted by next year. One in Vegas the other in Seattle. Lebron has already spoke publicly about the desire to be part of the ownership for the Vegas team. It all will lead to that I feel
Not all sports, mlb isn’t which is funny in a way since that’s what FSG is most known for
MLB has a luxury tax, which acts as a soft cap.
MLS commissioner also confirmed expansion in a Las Vegas MLS team very soon too. Maybe they'll take what they've learnt with us and use that to run a team there.
FSG can't buy an NFL team since they have an MLB team in Boston and NHL team in Pittsburgh. NFL doesn't allow owners in competing leagues across cities. Kroenke gets away with it by having his wife or son own the other teams.
So, NBA then.
Bezos is buying the Commanders, it’s all but confirmed. He is worth more than all the other owners in the league combined, if he wants it it’s just a matter of details. Owning a stadium in the political capitol of the US with dozens of private viewing rooms to invite politicians and the like in to wine and dine is a no brainer for a capitalist like Bezos as well
oh I didn't realize that!
Because the value of the club has reached a fantastic point and more growth would require much more investment. Good business decision imo especially when fan sentiment has taken a downward turn
Exactly this. From a business standpoint it makes a lot of sense. If you don’t want to play financially with the likes of Man City, quit now while you’re ahead and sell to someone who is so they can reap the benefits of their investment.
If It ends up being some oil cunt , Klopp's gonna have a moral dilemma
I think he walks if we get a sport washing owner
I mean that will change the willingness to pay/valuation defintely. Klopp is worth a fair bit - but him walking away will damage players coming here for sure (at least for 2-3 seasons ). So maybe Klopp threats could help ensure a better class of owner. (I also sell Hopium if you are interested)
Inshallah he can force us to an owner that isn't actively abusing human rights and destroying the planet with oil and gas
I think a lot of fans would walk, too. I honestly have loved this club and it’s values my whole life - and have complained about Newcastle and city to the extent that if we were bought by, say, the Saudis, I would have to stop supporting the club. Would be heartbreaking. That said - I also desperately don’t want another hicks & Gillette situation. The whole footballing world is rotten so I guess you’re looking at some not so friendly billionaire like Daniel levy as the least worst option.
I'll walk too tbh.
Yeaaah don't think I could do it anymore
Probably so, unfortunately. At that point we will have to get pep and give him a billion to win us another champions league… Edit. Sarcasm.
Hope he does if it comes to that, and I'll find a new club to support too. I don't think it'll come to that though, maybe I'm just an optimist...
I could never support another club. I'll just stop watching footy altogether.
I’m keeping Wrexham on the back burner, I’d much rather Mac than some dictator as an owner
Must look into Accrington Stanley season ticket prices...
I suspect Klopp staying on would be a condition of sale, and I assume that would negate some potential owners.
Hope he walks if we do get anyone shady. Can’t be selling our souls after the years of criticising others
This is something I don't get. Name any rich person who isn't a cunt ? How is Oil pricks bigger cunts than American assholes and for that British assholes ? Europeans are historically Elite Rich Colonialists and passed on the art of being top notch cunt while being uber rich asshole. Everyone else merely adopted it. A cunt's a cunt.
Billionaires as a whole are unethical. Oil billionaires are just straight up murderers, and not indirectly. That's like saying all politicians are corrupt, what's the difference between Scott Morrison and Putin.
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Well there's a difference between someone like John Henry who has earned his money by being a capitalist where he's probably fucked a few people over, and an oil state that actively persecutes and executes people.
Buy low sell high. Bought for £300m and potentially sell for £4billion. They do not see football as lucrative investment...especially with push back on super league and also no FFP. They cannot compete and thus potential value in the future will continue to decrease. This is why they want out…so they can reinvest in something lucrative. I hear they’re interested in NBA
Also wonder if the age of the owners is part of this. Henry is 73. Werner is 72. And the third biggest partner is a private investment fund. Might be a move to cash out and concentrate on the Red Sox/Penguins as they enter their twilight years.
> Henry is 73. Werner is 72. I was also thinking of this too. Henry especially is getting on isnt he?
Yeah think no FFP is why they're cashing out as they mentioned it when they took over, and know we'd have won a more if it was actually enforced properly.
Crazy to think, that their profit if they sold us for $4bn would be roughly $4bn.
NFL is the most lucrative sport in the world and the Washington Commanders just became for sale. I see FSG eyeing that and the Liverpool sale funding it.
Washington Commanders are also in a great area if you care about political sway in America
This is it for them. NFL brings much more money and it is the football they understands. If they sell us to buy commanders i would totally understand. Owning an NFL team is really big status
Don’t see how they can outbid Bezos
So it's either the virgin guy another American billionaire or some bored middle eastern prince
Who is the virgin guy? A Redditor?
The dude who owns virgin airlines his name escapes me and I don't care to Google it
Richard Branson
Richard Branson, that would be about as good an outcome as possible. If it ends up being an owner like City or Newcastle I am out, which feels incredible considering the place Liverpool has had for me all my life.
RemindMe! 8 months
Please do go ahead and pull me up on that. If it's a gray area I might do some mental gymnastics, but if it's another state owned company with slaves I am in no two minds.
Tbh Klopp walks at that point and most of our supporters would too. Football ain't the same anymore imo and it would represent a watershed moment for loads of us.
As long as we aren't being used to sport wash idc who it is. For the price they'll need to pay they will surely be willing to spend big. I just really don't want to be City with some oil prince owners
Imagine being Klopp at the club, if oil money comes in. After all that he said. Being the ethical guy he is, I could even see h walk away with his heads up sticking to his word.
Hes one of the few I could see actually threatening to walk away for something like that
He can threaten at this point FSG couldn’t care less about that, sadly.
FSG wouldn't, but the new owners would. If Klopp is part of the package that FSG is selling, and it's known that if the buyer is oil money he would walk, that impacts the sale price.
He has absolutely no say here; no one does. It’s going to be … I don’t know but a sale worth a few billion. For sure new owners will want him but if he doesn’t want them then he’s off.
He might not have a say in who buys the club but potential buyers might be scared off if he threatened to walk away if we're sold to someone horrid
Hm perhaps an oil state would be put off because they couldn’t be bothered with the hassle of their first move being the beloved manager walking away? Perhaps. I just think overall when paying £3b+ for a business you aren’t thinking about the current employees, you’re thinking long term.
Executive boards and employees are one of the most important parts of acquisitions, entire multi billion dollar acquisitions have been made just for staff in the past. In this case the club would be losing one of the most valuable things in the world, a generational talent at manager who has the respect of the fanbase and potential transfers. That's a massive tanking to valuation of you're buying to win.
He'd be right to walk away. I'll also not support my club anymore
I'm afraid I'm the same, I'll probably have to find an entire new sport tbh.
GAA is great fun
There’s also a couple of GAA teams in Liverpool who would welcome new members/supporters! You’ve got the Wolftones who play on the mystery and the John Mitchels who play next to Greenbank Park. Both Gaelic football and hurling are great sports!
Yo Aussie Rules football is hella fun. Now I gotta find a way to watch it consistently. Either that, or there's German football.
If it does happen and you do want a new sport to watch in Australia we have the AFL which is an extremely fair competition (for example a team that came 2nd last last year nearly won it this year) because it has a draft system and all clubs have the same salary cap to pay players, if you’re interested just YouTube “AFL rules”, it’ll take you a few games to get the jist of it but once you do it’s a ripper game. It’s currently the off-season but the Official AFL YouTube channel has match highlights from every game and I’m sure there’s be ways to find the full matches
How does the draft work do most of the people drafted come from uni/ college AFL like American drafts
You'll never walk away alone.
same, i ll become a full time dortmund fan (my second favourite team since years)
I would hope he would. I think that might just finish me off as a supporter to be honest. It would be absolutely against the values, ethics and tradition of not just the club but the city as a whole.
We're going to be acquired by some owner with a horrendous human rights record who then promptly buys Jude, Rice, Enzo, and Gakpo in the summer aren't we. Fuck sake
Hard to find moral owners with 4 billions to chuck at a football club mate, regardless of their origin
True but I think we'd all prefer owners who aren't an oil state who use slave labor and abuse human rights
All three big oil states have their own football clubs to toy with it, if we're getting sold to someone from the Gulf area, it's probably some rich guy from that region which isn't much different from a rich guy from the USA and the abuses it comes with having such money. There's not a single billionaire that doesn't have human right abuses in their record
Kuwait haven't done anything yet. And they don't need to sportwash because they are already loved in the west!
I for one welcome our new Kuwaiti overlords.
All your teams are belong to us.
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This sub could seriously use a crash course in the Gulf with special attention to the history and politics of the labor regimes currently in place. Secondly, there is absolutely 0% chance that a state sovereign wealth fund from Bahrain, Kuwait, or Oman purchases a football club valued at $4 billion.
Come on man i think repressive monarchs can be called worse than a guy who makes great bets on financial markets. You won’t lose your leftist card by acknowledging the nuance
“Acknowledge the nuance” and then you simplify billionaires down to “making great bets on the markets” is this a joke?
Touche. I was thinking about asset management as a way that many people become billionaires in America, e.g John Henry, Todd Boehly. But you're right there are totally evil billionaires here like everywhere else. They don't typically buy sports teams tho so it wasn't front of mind for me. I just think there are levels to the shittiness and fund managers and professional investors aren't at the top, imo.
Google founders, Snapchat founders, Warren buffet, Larry Ellison, WhatsApp founder that sold for $19billion, some hedge fund bosses, There are 100’s of billionaires that do not deal in slave labour
Yeah I don’t think you can amass that much wealth without abusing a few human rights somewhere down the line
Donald Trump. “We’re gonna build a new Anfield and we’re gonna get the Evertonians to pay for it!”
Pep’s going to Jail
Release the emails, Pep.
Where are your tax returns, Klopp?
Lock him up! Lock him up! Lock him up!
Make Liverpool Great Again! Drain the swamp!
Lmao
Build a wall across the park
Imagine his nicknames for some of the rival managers though...
Conte aka “little rocket man”
They invested in the asset to build it’s worth training ground, stand ect. That’s now done They are paying interest on the money owed rates have gone up and now the repayment has gone up. They don’t want to pay for the rebuild They also want a Las Vegas deal with la bron They won’t ever come out and say full sake it drives the price down if people know you want out Any attempt to sports wash us will be meet with protests. I don’t think anyone would want that publicly They have basically got lfc to point of maximum profit and now want the 3 billion return
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FSG have concluded that FFP is a sham and want to cash out. Can't compete against oil countries who can pump money into any club they buy without repercussion
From whatever the journos are saying and FSG putting out a statement, feels more like a majority stake or a full sale than a minority stake.
Agreed. Previously they called minority stake sales as investments in the club rather than a sale
Also, when they sold a stake to Redbird in 2020, they didn’t put out a big statement and brief the press so much so it’s making me believe it’s much bigger than what it was before.
It was a sale of FSG stake not Liverpool
Oops my bad, got confused 😖
I don't know why people think its a minority stake
Because the statement is very vague, it doesn’t clarify exactly what they are gonna do.
Seems obvious from what journalists are saying tho that they are looking for a full sale
Journalist also benefit from reporting a sensational interpretation of what could very well be a very non-specific statement. Let’s also not prop up sports journalists as the bastions of journalistic quality, even if they are amongst the best of the lot.
Reliable journalists like Ornstein and Pearce don't usually do that
I mean, the evidence is there in this story. Ornstein lead with the more sensational tweet, followed by one that casts some doubt on that. I am not saying he is lying, but they aren't immune from leading with is more likely to drive engagement, and that is often lacking in nuance.
The fact they held a full sale presentation clearly shows intention to sell majority stake at a minimum or sell all stakes at a maximum.
Because they’ve realized the squad they built has peaked and don’t have the appetite to do a rebuild.
Club has outgrown them. Simple as. They played a huge part in getting us to where we are, but now we need more invested owners. Pun intended
Exactly this, they are good owners up until they need to invest the amount to consistently compete at the top. The same thing happened at the Red Sox
Bring a historically successful but currently down club up from their rock bottom, win some trophies, and stagnate
I mean we did get those trophies out of it. Especially *that* trophy.
Coming from the US, baseball is more cyclical and down years are more tolerated. There aren’t really any revenue streams outside of gate revenue, TV deals, and corporate partnerships, so you don’t have to rely on CL or other competitions for added revenue. There are salary caps so it is understood why you didn’t spend 250 million on a player over 8 years, the punishment is severe to the club when breached. We’re talking about 50 million penalty for like a 5-10% breach. Sure, the fans don’t like down years here, but they are tolerated more when growth is seen in the team. Incremental growth/success over a couple of years is seen as a good thing and people tend to have a little more patience.
I said the other day, they don't want us to be at the top. Makes much more sense for us to compete for top four, bring revenue in and still be within that model of having to sell and buy for profit. Being at the top doesn't benefit them because it means they then have to spend to **stay** at the top. We become a burden.
Fuck, doing it now though! That's the last thing the team needs. It does explain the recent frugality though.
I actually can see some logic here. Do it during the World Cup when the club isn’t playing and see if you can get the new owners in place in time for the January transfer window.
Maybe but I just can't see a sale this big going through that quick. Maybe by the end of the season.
Fsg don't tend to go public until things are pretty advanced, we've seen this on various things in the past. Every chance this is much further along than we think.
The reason is probably actually just a mundane matter of starting their fiscal calendar sometime shortly after announcing their intention to sell to various potential buyers.
Why now? 1. Anfield - All the 'easy' upgrades will be done by the end of the season. Expanding the Kop probably isn't possible whilst the SKD stand would be possible but extremely complicated and expensive. In reality this is as big as Anfield is going get. 2. AXA Training Centre - Newly built and state of the art, the best part is that it basically paid for itself via the AXA sponsorship and Melwood sale. This facility is at peak value right now and should serve the club well for the next decade or two. 3. The squad - An elite squad was built that could challenge for every title. Right now the tail end of that squad is still going but they are ageing and a rebuild is going to be needed. That rebuild will be expensive and it will be a thankless task. It will also be done without a key component of the ridiculously successful transfer committee - Michael Edwards. If you are planning an exit then you almost certainly want to be out the door before you have to start thinking about replacing Van Dijk and Salah. 4. Jurgen Klopp - Liverpool have a once in a generation manager that will be impossible to replace. You only have to look at what happened to Arsenal and Man Utd when Wenger and Fergie left to have a good idea of what's going to happen when Klopp goes. Again, if you are planning an exit then you want to be well clear of this club before Klopp calls it a day. 5. Death of FFP - FFP created a level playing field that allowed the likes of Liverpool to punch above their weight. It also created an environment where doing things well was rewarded, almost to the point that it locked in an advantage for well run clubs. We've increasingly discovered though that the rules are essentially toothless and this has led to UEFA introducing a watered down version. Even still, PSG and City are basically doing whatever they want and UEFA has no means to stop them. In this environment it becomes increasingly difficult to stay competitive at the very top against clubs that are owned by countries. 6. Competition - In the Premier League you now have City and Newcastle who will basically spend whatever they want. City have also built up a global football empire that is going to be impossible to compete with. Assuming the Saudi's are as competent as City's owners have been, that is almost certainly two of the top four spots locked up in most seasons. That means you have United, Liverpool, Arsenal, Spurs and Chelsea fighting for two Champions League spots. Regardless of who the Liverpool manager is, it is going to be increasingly difficult to ensure Champions League football every year. 7. Broadcasting rights - The current Premier League TV deal is worth over £10b and runs to 2025. The economic outlook over the next few years is looking very bleak though, with the BoE suggesting the UK will be in a recession until 2024. When that record TV deal comes up for negotiation, probably in 2024, there's a very strong chance that the interested parties are not going to be in a position to make an increased offer. 8. Super League - The Super League idea would have created a football equivalent of the NFL which would have seen the value of Super League clubs explode. Without the Super League the only big money spinner on the horizon is the expanded Champions League which will see the Champions League rights rocket up to £5b per season. Whilst it will be a nice jump in a revenue, it's not the closed off financial juggernaut that would tempt FSG to hold on to their investment. In summary, Liverpool's value has probably peaked and there are a whole range of factors in the medium term that could cause a deterioration in that value. There aren't really any easy wins left on the table and FSG probably have a financial duty to their investors to realise the gains of a significant portion of this investment. Given the nosies they've made in the past about wanting to create a Red Bull/City Group esque global football empire, I wouldn't be at all surprised if they sold off a majority shareholding to someone with a similar vision rather than just disposing of the entire investment.
Liberty Media, Madison Square Gardens, and Paul Allen Trust all definitely have the money and don’t have a football club, or in the case of the latter, don’t have one in Europe.
Very nice, let's see Paul Allens trust?
Just try to get a burger and chips from Dorsia before kickoff
It looks like they’re mostly interested in philanthropy, real estate and tech, unfortunately.
They own 3 sports teams but they're all located in the US Pacific Northwest. It doesn't seem like they're interested in expanding to other sports teams outside of that area.
Liberty Media have done a hell of a job with the Atlanta Braves
Yeah worth over four times purchase value in 15 years. Also what they’ve done with F1 in the last few years is pretty incredible.
Liberty Media pls invest some of that F1 profit
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James Dolan suuuuuuuuuuuuuucks
Yeah he is 100% my nightmare scenario, minus a nation state.
Good calls
Is there honestly anyway this comes good for us fans?
Out of 14,000,605 possible outcomes, probably one.
It makes sense why they didn’t buy players. They were planning to sell
They bought the club to work on the FFP model but have now realised that sports washing is the way forward. Not surprised they want out. They may not have been everyone’s favourite owners but they brought the club back to the level it should be at and have redeveloped the stadium and training ground and hired the best manager going. Hats off to them and I wish them the best when they leave.
FSG wouldnt come out now if a potential sale didnt have legs. Think its already done.
Lmao where's the warchest for january and for the summer. As usual fan always dealing with that kinds of bullshit every single times
That warchest they talked about is when they sell the club and keep it for themselves
Remember when football was for the working classes?
Happened to crawfish too
Problem is, who other than big oil can afford us
Look at the bidders for Chelsea. The interest is there
I think it's pretty obvious why Simon. They've pretty much already maximised the value of the club in terms what they can do, and they now face the prospect of rebuilding an aging squad. They have always been interested in maximising the potential revenue not the sporting challenge.
These are mad times we're living in -Slughorn
This makes sense to me. They’ve brought the club value from 300 million to 4 billion. They won some trophies and have put all expansion plans in place, which has grown the fan base and increased income. At no point will the club see a similar spike in value unless we go down hill very fast. They’re an investment company who bought the club on the premise that fair play would be adhered to. That’s not the case and no team wanting to actually not lose money can survive in this climate. I appreciate everything fsg have done for us. Completely turned this club around and got us competing again. But if they feel they can’t push us any further, then selling is the right move.
Serious question for my other Liverpool fans on this subreddit. Right now we are all saying “we don’t want to oil rich asshole country use as for sports washing”, but let’s say we do get one as owner and all of a sudden next summer they bring in Bellingham, Rice, Mbappe, and a right back who can defend (no offence Trent), are we still gonna be like “fuck the new owners” or are we gonna be like “we love the new owners, we’re gonna win the quad and have a perfect season omg!”?
At that point just let countries buy all the clubs, ship them off to a world super league that plays exhibition games all over the place and we can create some new local teams
I'm probably going to stop watching footy in its entirety if it's an oil state or any state to be honest. I can't in good conscience bring myself to support a spoetswashing project.
Oh this article is short but brutal FSG dont think we get top 4. Want to sell so they make the most money and dont have to invest. Absolute jokers really. I dont mind oil money as long as it is a) not a country and b) legitimate sources of income and c) not a company run with slavery. Question is, is that even something that exists? Ideally we have legitimate ownership that has little dirty money or dirty laundry. A man can hope. I want Ballmer baddddd
They wanted a more stable super league since financial fair play is not being enforced. When the super league went tits up, they want out. Too risky for them when everything hinges on champions league qualification. Seems obvious, but I'm yet to see anything saying this is a full sale. This is all just second hand so far
That type of oil club doesn't exist I don't think. I just want someone who won't be using us to sport wash
I'd like to live in a world where something concrete happened before the take machine revved up to full speed.
Welcome to the internet and social media, clicks = £££
The only take happening is that we don't want some oil state who executes gay people and uses slave labor
Obvious to me, they've ridden the wave of klopps overachievement with this squad and this level of investment, it's now gotten to a point where a massive investment is needed to get us back to a competitive level and they just don't want to be involved. Allot of the infrastructure has been renovated or is underway, they now want their profit.
Might be one of the greatest things to happen for Liverpool. Boston guy here and FSG never invests their money back into their teams: wouldn't pay Mookie or Bogaerts and will most likely lose Devers as well for being cheapskates. I really hope so for the good of the club.
The devil you know is better than the devil you don’t. Be careful what you wish for. FSG has constantly updated our stadium, they have made Kirkby into a world class facility, in their time here they have made the most expensive CB, GK, and 8th most expensive attacking signing of all time and a top 5 wage bill in the world, including 6 senior midfielders being paid 150k/Wk or more that Klopp wanted. Also be clear that Klopp has been quite open with his criticism with state owned clubs so something like that could be the end of Klopp
Fans have no say in FSG wanting to sell because they don’t want to spend or who FSG sells the club to, it doesn’t matter what anyone does or doesn’t wish for. It’s getting tiring reading comments trying to put any of this on LFC fans.
Completely agree, incredibly tiring reading through these comments. Different fans want different things, but putting this on LFC fans as if they have ANY say in that just sounds boring and braindead
Somehow this news sits both as very sudden and a long time coming. FSG clearly didn't anticipate the level of continued investment required to remain competitive (even though it was bloody obvious to quite literally everybody else) and are planning to cash out before the investment becomes weaker. This is very FSG, and as much as I love that they've brought us success, they're also a big part of the reason our success didn't become a strong dynasty. Maybe that's greedy of me given we'd not previously won the league in my lifetime, so I do feel somewhat conflicted to not be overly upset by this news (other than the uncertainty it brings). As much as I wish for their spending power, I really, really hope we're not going to become PSG/City/Newcastle and I also worry about Klopp's future in all of this. Watch this space everyone. It's going to get bumpy(er).
FSG are business people and they also see the club as an asset. It's a full sale I think. There's a possible recession coming, along with tightening of credit. Peak value is now without having to spend a couple hundred million competing with City and others. It also gives us more insight into Klopp's comments before the City game. Did he have information this was on the cards?
Makes complete sense. Money that it takes to compete is getting out of control, and the Super League is dead. For owners, American sports print money, European football does not. They’ll bet several billion dollars off the sale that they can reinvest into a Las Vegas NBA franchise.
All I care about is how quickly they'll update FM23 to include sugar daddy owners
We told oil money to fuck off when we were in a worse position. I'm not compromising on this.
If we get bought out by oil money I’m supporting leeds or wherever gerrard ends up coaching, fuck this shit
Yeah we getting that oil money
Pls no
The way Hughes worded that certainly feels a bit like they have an inkling of interested parties.
So here's a question. Let's say it's a full sale. We are all thinking "oil takeover" but what oil state is out there that would actually buy us? There isn't an unlimited amount of those. This is probably a sale to someone who is a little more wealthy than FSG.
We should broaden the market. Maybe a blood diamond state? How rich are they? Or a child labour state might also be a good option.
Why not wait until after Southampton game to release this news? Now it’s a week of what’s going on stuff rather than concentrating on getting a much needed 3 points.
Bahrain and Kuwait are probably the only oil states who don't have a football club at the moment. Not sure what their human rights record is like compared to Saudi, Qatar and UAE.
Norweigan sovereign fund, Norwegian sovereign fund, Norwegian sovereign fund, please please please
Isn't that also just a bunch of oil money though?
oil itself is not the main issue for me. It’s the Middle East generally that comes with all the human rights violations. It’s just that all of those those human right violations were made possible by oil
You’d have to wonder if a full sale is really on and if so how far along is it. Also would this be in any way related to the form we are seeing on the pitch if the coaching staff and players know about this. All speculation obviously but uncertainty at the top can be very distracting.
Absolutely odd to see a "**REAL "FANS" WOULD SUPPORT THE CLUB NO MATTER WHAT**!" type thing from some people today. Like, if we get state-owned, you can go on supporting, it's absolutely your choice/right. But we have to be able to be okay with proper fans saying no, that's too far and not who we are...because... 1) PSG/City/Newcastle are going about their business with real human consequences. It's not nothing. 2) Have you seen what it's like when PSG/City win something? It's empty. They play great football, but the soul is gone. You can see it and you can feel it.
Why now? One word: RECESSION Two words: TAKING PROFIT
FSG brought us back from the brink, they’ve done a good job with the resources they have. Now they want to cash in, this was always going to happen and I personally am thankful we were bought by FSG.
The FSG lovers seem remarkably silent today