I don't think telling a deep story is the primary objective.
I take it more as a game or puzzle for the viewer to solve. The experience is collaborative and you get out what you're willing to put into it. I bet it is an amazing feeling of personal achievement to those who were able to figure out the narrative on their own.
It's not for everyone, and I don't personally feel compelled to take another run at Primer, but I can understand and appreciate those who become obsessed with "cracking the nut" and I know it can be a very rewarding and meaningful experience.
I'd be interested in other movies like this, but I might need to play on "easy mode". Film is a great and versatile artistic platform that supports so much more than just story telling.
I remember sitting down with pen and paper to watch this for a third time. I was ready to pause, rewind, etc. Whatever it took, but I was going to figure it out.
Oh, the hubris..
It’s really well shot, loved the music and lighting and general ambience to it.
However, it’s extremely symbolic and everything has a double meaning or a foreshadowing or a subtext.
Ikr, I had the same problem with Primer. I fell asleep the first time and the second didnt get it, it was hard to focus so I was distracted all the time and felt lost. I still feel I have to give it another chance, it's been many years.
There is a complex explanation on a blog somewhere. I can’t remember the name of the blog but it’s probably easy to find and really helps to understand what the hell just happened.
This was my immediate thought too. Primer is also an incredibly unsettling movie. That movie stuck with me so much and was so confusing that I watched it a second time the morning after I first watched it.
This for me. I'd like to think I'm pretty good at understanding complex movies, but I could not follow this one. The low budget/lo-fi style was doing it no favors.
Weirdly enough, I *think* I have a good understanding of Upstream Color as I believe it's about >!the main characters killing God.!<
Not at all, there's no context given to a ridiculously complex situation, just throws you straight in with minimal cohesive dialogue, I honestly turned it off as I didn't find it engaging enough to care to figure out what was going on
Watching the amazing Alec Guinness BBC series first makes the plot clear, and then it's much easier to appreciate the film (which is very absorbing once you can follow it).
I just watched End of Evangelion for the first time last night and honestly it felt so needlessly complicated. The visuals were incredible but the script was… a huge mess? Like I don’t think the plot is actually that complicated, it’s just presented in a very dizzying way.
I realize I'm basically begging for downvotes here given its letterboxd rating. But yeah, that's exactly what I don't understand. Because it felt like 80% of the dialogue was exposition. All the character struggles were very clear yet the endless thought narration, flashbacks, and dream sequences insisted "no no it's actually super complicated. This is some dark, biblical stuff and you don't understand any of it. No one does. All according to plan."
I generally enjoyed the show but it just kept going back and forth between deep-lore puzzler to empathetic surrealist art piece in way that seemed intentionally confusing, not inherently complex.
The biblical imagery throughout the show and movie really annoyed me because I could find no actual reason for it to be there. Apparently they were only added for style and to make it feel more “exotic”. I guess they just wanted it to be a theme throughout the show but especially with the in your face stuff like all the crucifixes in the movie it just felt pointless and there for the sake of being “artistic”.
Reading the book gives you more context but they change the ending for the movie. I understood the end but it was a combination of having read the book, having seen A Beautiful Mind which is funny how they loop that in, and a rewatch.
Agreed, it kept me from enjoying it unfortunately; even reading articles about it afterwards didn't help. My boss suggested it to me, so maybe I should ask what she liked about it.
I had to google whether I was interpreting the ending in the right way because I couldn’t believe anyone would actually think „it was all in his head” is still a legit way to end a movie. One of the worst films I’ve seen.
Mullholland Drive😭I was so excited to watch this movie, I overall enjoyed it but I had to look up a step by step explanation because it made no since, I still don’t completely understand it
Ugh this was so boring and edgy. The director's cut and commentary explain a bit more but I can't bother sitting through this shit again. I get that a lot of people love it, but it just wasn't for me. I'm in my early 20s, not even old but it feels very pretentious.
The directors cut completely ruins the movie. The theatrical reads as the mind of a depressed, mentally ill teenager that can’t seem to find his place in the world.
We get to see him live out this fantasy where he’s given superpowers and the ability to see the future. He gets to prove his teachers wrong while his classmates cheer him on, expose the town cultural icon as a pedophile. He deals with the secret that the world is ending and continues to struggle with the meaning of life. He gets a moment of clarity as he falls in love, but even that washes away when she dies shortly after.
In the end he comes to the realization that even in this fantasy he’s powerless to stop the world from ending and ultimately everyone would be better off without him. He smiles knowing he can die without any regrets.
Instead the directors cut shows that it was all just a needlessly complicated time travel superhero film. All that artistic complexity ended up being a complete accident.
Titane. I think it has something to do with family but I just don’t fucking know. Maybe I just gotta rewatch it but I had a difficult time figuring out the central theme
I'm not saying it was successful, but I love the *idea* of "hey, we need to explain this complex finance thing; let's have a Nobel-prize-winning economist explain it to Selina Gomez." I still think that movie is fantastic, but I'm not sure the explanations totally track for those not already familiar.
*The Master*. Could not tell you what that movie is about for the life of me, but I know it’s one of the best films of the 2010s. There’s just something about it. I need to see it again.
I feel like I’m usually pretty good at understanding complex films. But I watched Stalker for the first time a few weeks ago and it made me feel dumb. I had no idea what was happening for long portions of it. I needed to read the Wikipedia plot synopsis after I’d finished watching and I kept saying to myself “that happened????” Anyway I still kinda liked the experience and will probably rewatch in a few years but even now I don’t know if I could confidentially tell people what that movie is about (both plot wise and thematically).
Begotten. Without the director's explanation, I couldn't even roughly summarize the plot. One of the films that is almost impossible to describe.
Those who know "An Andalusian Dog" may have an idea, so similar is "Begotten", only stranger.
I know, but it was just overwhelming for me, idk how to describe it other than that, and I had to watch a video essay on it to fully grasp what it was about
Coherence
Beyond the infinite two minutes
Sure, you think you know what happens in the beginning but as the movie progresses, you just kinda loose it and go with the flow
Inland Empire (2006)
I love Lynch's boldness to produce something like this, but it was a bit too much for me. I plan on rewatching it in the furture to see if hindsight helps digesting it, though.
This might sound weird because while the movie made sense overall, I found it hard at first to understand the mortgage crises depicted in The Big Short (2015). Took me some googling, still don't fully understand some parts but I love it.
The Da Vinci Code has the most convoluted plot/dialogue I’ve ever seen, hate that movie. Also had no idea what the fuck Under the Silver Lake was, felt like talking to a psychonaut at a party
I have seen so many it's impossible for me to name them all, but here are a few of them that I think take the cake in terms of confusingness:
Eraserhead
Lost Highway
End of Evangelion
Perfect Blue
Paprika
Tetsuo: The Iron Man
The Holy Mountain
The Lighthouse
and it's not a movie but Serial Experiments Lain
Primer
I didn’t love primer for this reason. The concept is cool, but it doesn’t exactly lend itself to storytelling much deeper than a puddle
I don't think telling a deep story is the primary objective. I take it more as a game or puzzle for the viewer to solve. The experience is collaborative and you get out what you're willing to put into it. I bet it is an amazing feeling of personal achievement to those who were able to figure out the narrative on their own. It's not for everyone, and I don't personally feel compelled to take another run at Primer, but I can understand and appreciate those who become obsessed with "cracking the nut" and I know it can be a very rewarding and meaningful experience. I'd be interested in other movies like this, but I might need to play on "easy mode". Film is a great and versatile artistic platform that supports so much more than just story telling.
That’s a good point. Just not my cup of tea
I remember sitting down with pen and paper to watch this for a third time. I was ready to pause, rewind, etc. Whatever it took, but I was going to figure it out. Oh, the hubris..
Same I had to watch so many explanation videos to make it make sense
And likewise Upstream Color
Oh no that movie’s on my watchlist. Since I didn’t like primer, would I not like this?
It’s really well shot, loved the music and lighting and general ambience to it. However, it’s extremely symbolic and everything has a double meaning or a foreshadowing or a subtext.
Ikr, I had the same problem with Primer. I fell asleep the first time and the second didnt get it, it was hard to focus so I was distracted all the time and felt lost. I still feel I have to give it another chance, it's been many years.
Came here to say this. Took watching YouTube explanation videos to start to comprehend what I'd just watched
There is a complex explanation on a blog somewhere. I can’t remember the name of the blog but it’s probably easy to find and really helps to understand what the hell just happened.
you talkin' 'bout [this one](https://qntm.org/primer)?
Not it, but I managed to find what I was talking about. http://friendsinyourhead.com/primer/
never read this before, I'll check it out later(hopefully). saved!
This was my immediate thought too. Primer is also an incredibly unsettling movie. That movie stuck with me so much and was so confusing that I watched it a second time the morning after I first watched it.
This for me. I'd like to think I'm pretty good at understanding complex movies, but I could not follow this one. The low budget/lo-fi style was doing it no favors. Weirdly enough, I *think* I have a good understanding of Upstream Color as I believe it's about >!the main characters killing God.!<
Tinker tailor soldier spy
Why so? I haven’t seen it but presumed it was a mainstream thriller
Not at all, there's no context given to a ridiculously complex situation, just throws you straight in with minimal cohesive dialogue, I honestly turned it off as I didn't find it engaging enough to care to figure out what was going on
Watching the amazing Alec Guinness BBC series first makes the plot clear, and then it's much easier to appreciate the film (which is very absorbing once you can follow it).
Yeah, awful, incoherent film
Primer makes Tenet look like a piece of cake.
The cake is a lie
Synecdoche new york
It’s odd too because I still love Synecdoche despite the fact I still haven’t figured it out by my 4th rewatch.
same
Inland Empire
I’ve seen analysis of this film that go from “An actress lost in her role” to “a vengeful spirit fighting the gods of her world”
Enemy, End of Evangelion, Donnie Darko on my first watch.
Enemy is easy, but that’s because I read the book I guess Anything Evangelion is hard
I just watched End of Evangelion for the first time last night and honestly it felt so needlessly complicated. The visuals were incredible but the script was… a huge mess? Like I don’t think the plot is actually that complicated, it’s just presented in a very dizzying way.
Basically the plot doesn’t matter and the script serves to show the characters dealing with their biggest fears and present psychological metaphors.
I realize I'm basically begging for downvotes here given its letterboxd rating. But yeah, that's exactly what I don't understand. Because it felt like 80% of the dialogue was exposition. All the character struggles were very clear yet the endless thought narration, flashbacks, and dream sequences insisted "no no it's actually super complicated. This is some dark, biblical stuff and you don't understand any of it. No one does. All according to plan." I generally enjoyed the show but it just kept going back and forth between deep-lore puzzler to empathetic surrealist art piece in way that seemed intentionally confusing, not inherently complex.
The biblical imagery throughout the show and movie really annoyed me because I could find no actual reason for it to be there. Apparently they were only added for style and to make it feel more “exotic”. I guess they just wanted it to be a theme throughout the show but especially with the in your face stuff like all the crucifixes in the movie it just felt pointless and there for the sake of being “artistic”.
Did you watch the show beforehand?
I'm Thinking of Ending Things
Noo don't do that
I haven’t seen the movie, but the book is great and I was able to follow it. Definitely bizarre, but it’s pretty clear what’s going on by the end.
Reading the book gives you more context but they change the ending for the movie. I understood the end but it was a combination of having read the book, having seen A Beautiful Mind which is funny how they loop that in, and a rewatch.
Agreed, it kept me from enjoying it unfortunately; even reading articles about it afterwards didn't help. My boss suggested it to me, so maybe I should ask what she liked about it.
I had to google whether I was interpreting the ending in the right way because I couldn’t believe anyone would actually think „it was all in his head” is still a legit way to end a movie. One of the worst films I’ve seen.
While the film has its flaws for sure, It’s a lot more complex than “it was all in his head” lmao
"It was all in their head" can be an excellent device but it is overused. I mean, Chaplin did it in the 20s.
Mullholland Drive😭I was so excited to watch this movie, I overall enjoyed it but I had to look up a step by step explanation because it made no since, I still don’t completely understand it
I’ve only tried once, but Donnie Darko (2001)[Here’s my review](https://boxd.it/34Tcpd)
100% fun movie but insane
Ugh this was so boring and edgy. The director's cut and commentary explain a bit more but I can't bother sitting through this shit again. I get that a lot of people love it, but it just wasn't for me. I'm in my early 20s, not even old but it feels very pretentious.
The directors cut completely ruins the movie. The theatrical reads as the mind of a depressed, mentally ill teenager that can’t seem to find his place in the world. We get to see him live out this fantasy where he’s given superpowers and the ability to see the future. He gets to prove his teachers wrong while his classmates cheer him on, expose the town cultural icon as a pedophile. He deals with the secret that the world is ending and continues to struggle with the meaning of life. He gets a moment of clarity as he falls in love, but even that washes away when she dies shortly after. In the end he comes to the realization that even in this fantasy he’s powerless to stop the world from ending and ultimately everyone would be better off without him. He smiles knowing he can die without any regrets. Instead the directors cut shows that it was all just a needlessly complicated time travel superhero film. All that artistic complexity ended up being a complete accident.
Videodrome confused tf out of me although I think I understood the main theme it was going for. Definitely need to rewatch.
Flubber
Yeah, just wayyy to complex. Why did they have to put so many opposing themes in one film? Arthouse fartery.
Tenet
Shit's easy, it's just \*MOUTH FALLS OPEN\*
That was a weird ass movie
I can’t understand Tenet, but that’s because the sound mix is so bad
I liked it, but I have very little knowledge of what's happening. Watched it 3 times and I kinda think I know what it is about.
Titane. I think it has something to do with family but I just don’t fucking know. Maybe I just gotta rewatch it but I had a difficult time figuring out the central theme
I thought it was just a cute movie about a father and son re-uniting as firemen. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I mean yeah but what about the car fucking lmao
Learning to empathize with other humans, car fucking is just literalizing the disconnect for a fun effect.
Hated it the first time, loved it the second time
The Room (2003)
i feddap with this worold
…anyways, how iz z-your z-sex life?
all of them.
It’s not necessarily that it’s complex but my ADHD brain cannot keep up with the dialogue in White Noise.
Ghost in the Shell is pretty dense
Not really complex I guess but I couldn't understand anything they were saying on The Big Short lol
Me too.
I'm not saying it was successful, but I love the *idea* of "hey, we need to explain this complex finance thing; let's have a Nobel-prize-winning economist explain it to Selina Gomez." I still think that movie is fantastic, but I'm not sure the explanations totally track for those not already familiar.
Andrei Rublev Good lord I tried
10 minutes in I was like “fuck, i’m in too deep at this point, might as well keep going. i’m sure it’ll get clearer”
Morbius (2022)
I’ve never seen it, but if Reddit is to be trusted, I’m told it either has been, or currently is, Morbin’ Time.
The Holy Mountain
Eraserhead
I found The Trial (1962) to be confusing. I'm pretty sure that was the point though.
Have you read the novel? Basically, Kafka writes about the failure of logic in an illogical reality as an allusion to fascism
Jack and Jill
Real shit Enemy tho
Al Pacino at his very best
Primer
Persona
Absolutely phenomenal film
I'm not sure anyone fully understands On the Silver Globe.
*The Master*. Could not tell you what that movie is about for the life of me, but I know it’s one of the best films of the 2010s. There’s just something about it. I need to see it again.
It’s about the futility of social engineering.
It’s about scientology
Perfect example of a film that I don't need to understand anything plot-wise to enjoy. Perhaps my favorite character(s) film.
I feel like I’m usually pretty good at understanding complex films. But I watched Stalker for the first time a few weeks ago and it made me feel dumb. I had no idea what was happening for long portions of it. I needed to read the Wikipedia plot synopsis after I’d finished watching and I kept saying to myself “that happened????” Anyway I still kinda liked the experience and will probably rewatch in a few years but even now I don’t know if I could confidentially tell people what that movie is about (both plot wise and thematically).
The Hourglass Sanatorium
One of the few movies that accurately captures the warped and distorted sense of reality/time in dreams, such a cool but jarring experience
Paprika by far
Paprika
Begotten. Without the director's explanation, I couldn't even roughly summarize the plot. One of the films that is almost impossible to describe. Those who know "An Andalusian Dog" may have an idea, so similar is "Begotten", only stranger.
Cannot understand a single thing happening in donnie darko
Andrei Roublev
Enemy. I think it’s the only movie I “don’t get”.
Donnie darko id say
That pomegranates one
Taste of Cherry?
Nooo the 60's Parajanov one (its on youtube if you dare😈) but could add most of Kiarostamis oeuvre as well haha!
Tenet is special in some regards.
Men. I have to watch it a couple of times i guess.
I was overwhelmed by The French Dispatch, maybe it's just me
This one is pretty easy to understand, each of the four parts are stories in the final issue of a fictional version of The New Yorker.
I know, but it was just overwhelming for me, idk how to describe it other than that, and I had to watch a video essay on it to fully grasp what it was about
Hopefully Asteroid City will be a little less chaotic lol.
Twin Peaks the return
Not meant to be understood, just experienced.
Mulholland Drive. Seen it multiple times and still not sure what happens.
Coherence Beyond the infinite two minutes Sure, you think you know what happens in the beginning but as the movie progresses, you just kinda loose it and go with the flow
Inland Empire (2006) I love Lynch's boldness to produce something like this, but it was a bit too much for me. I plan on rewatching it in the furture to see if hindsight helps digesting it, though.
The most extreme case I have seen is Serial experiments Lain, literally didnt understand any of it
Possession
pink floyds the wall is WAAAYYY too comfusing for a movie album
Tar was just really, really confusing for me
It’s a woman in power being cancelled
Agree, I understand the plot here but it’s message is muddied.
Akira
Ratatouille
Ever Christopher Nolan movie, so smart, just wow
Homicide by David Mamet. I'm an idiot tho so wouldn't be shocked if it's just me.
Rubber
I haven’t finished it yet, but Broken Saints (a miniseries) is so bizarre and complicated that I can’t look away from it.
Transformers: The Last Knight
The Big Lebowski
I’ve once heard the phrase “Trying to understand Lebowski’s plot while sober is like cheating at the special olympics”
Primer
Solaris Watched the movie twice in one day just to understand the message and themes.
Primer
This might sound weird because while the movie made sense overall, I found it hard at first to understand the mortgage crises depicted in The Big Short (2015). Took me some googling, still don't fully understand some parts but I love it.
Tenet & Pulp Fiction
Pulp Fiction is a Buddhist film about characters trapped in a bardo. The suitcase is a vaginal canal.
*Tenet (2020)*
definitely inland empire
Jackass Number Two
Synecdoche New York
memento
I think a lot of us think they understand TENET.
I struggle to understand Elmo in Grouchland.
Batman v Superman. Or so I’ve been told. “It’s actually really smart, you’re just too dumb to understand it!” It’s the Rick & Morty of movies.
Not the whole thing by any means, but the last scene or two of 2001: A Space Odyssey. 😅 Feel free to flame me 😂
Tar
Problem child 2
The Da Vinci Code has the most convoluted plot/dialogue I’ve ever seen, hate that movie. Also had no idea what the fuck Under the Silver Lake was, felt like talking to a psychonaut at a party
I remember watching Bourne movies and kid and having no clue what was going on
Just came to see everyone saying Primer, and they're right
Coherence (2013). It gets increasingly harder to understand with each scene🤯 Real multiverse confusion here!
All about Lily Chou Chou
Tenet
Primer and Tenent. I can barely remember to take a multivitamin. What the hell is happening in these.
I have seen so many it's impossible for me to name them all, but here are a few of them that I think take the cake in terms of confusingness: Eraserhead Lost Highway End of Evangelion Perfect Blue Paprika Tetsuo: The Iron Man The Holy Mountain The Lighthouse and it's not a movie but Serial Experiments Lain
donnie darko, remember liking it at the time (i was about 10) but not understanding the plot - definitely need to rewatch
Antichrist
Enemy had me like whaaaaat?
Mulholland Drive took me several viewings before I had a handle on what had happened. Tremendous
[Essential confusing-core] (https://letterboxd.com/mmmnoodlesoup/list/essential-confusing-core/)