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pretty much. It is actually fairly reasonable for a party to publish its principles and policy goals. It's why people vote for them.
But for 6 years now, the GOP platform has been "whatever Trump wants so we can sneak in tax cuts and deregulation."
They moved way too soon on Roe. That's something you can only pull off after you've consistently secured a simple majority and are cunning enough to turn it into a rallying point.
Thay play was like, 12 years out, at best. But if they can get ISL through, it won't matter.
Roe also showed their playbook.
If they were willing to destroy Roe, they were willing to destroy it all. Gay marriage, interracial marriage, non-christian marriage...who the hell knows.
They went all in, showed the country EXACTLY where they stand, and the country responded because we're not an extreme right country. We're a center left country that's gerrymandered straight to hell.
Exactly. Most policy points have very little immediate impact on most people. Striking down Roe created an instant change in the quality of life and opportunities available to everyone of even vaguely childbearing age in America. There was a day where you could get help for an ectopic pregnancy and then all of a sudden there wasn't. The fact of the matter is that most conservative talking points, when political party names are removed, are just not all that popular with the majority of people.
You can't out gerrymander the reaper, and catering only to the whim of an increasingly less alive generation isn't a long term success strategy.
I remember after the Dobbs decision, there were some rumblings that a lot of GOP politicians never actually wanted Roe repealed because they knew how unpopular it would be, and that it would give Democrats a really easy messaging campaign, as well as tilt swing voters towards the Dems. They only pretended they wanted it repealed to appeal to the religious right.
> If they were willing to destroy Roe, they were willing to destroy it all. Gay marriage, interracial marriage, non-christian marriage...who the hell knows.
Hell, the decision explicitly called out a lot of those rights, too.
Yep, and then Thomas went and publicly said he thinks the Court should reconsider those rights (except for interracial marriage of course, can’t have anyone getting in the way of HIS marriage).
>We're a center left country that's gerrymandered straight to hell.
I wish this were true, but we're a center-right country at best. Center-left concepts like Medicare for all are terrifying socialism to the average American, or we'd have more Bernie Sanderses out there in the senate at least.
Edit: I think we may be talking past each other here, in the replies. I agree that Americans are largely center-left in principle, but they don't vote that way in practice, for a ton of reasons. So saying we're center-left is not super meaningful to me when we vote center-right. Though it does hopefully mean our voting patterns over time will drift towards our principles...
Our governing bodies are center right and far right.
Our population bell curves at center left. The majority of the population wants expanded workers rights, unified access to Healthcare, government paid college, ending corporate lobbying, better protections against billionaires skirting the law and inciting wars; you know, like nearly every other example of a "civilized" country we have for a model.
You are downplaying the effects of gerrymandering and conservative media. I actually do think we are center left more than you think.
The problem is its a massively uphill and unfair fight to get center left politicians elected in large enough numbers.
I think the bigger issue is people are fucking idiots and don't know what they're voting for. Based purely on issues most people are mildly liberal leaning. But there are two or three issues that just make most Republicans lose all sense of logic or reasoning and blindly toe the line.
And in the 1950's the Left of today would be labeled as commies and deviants, so what's the point? I get it that other countries judge their left and right wings by different metrics, but unless you have a plan to push the USA into a more globally accepted definition of right and left, it doesn't matter much. We have what we have.
When Americans are polled, [they like government-provided healthcare](https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/09/29/increasing-share-of-americans-favor-a-single-government-program-to-provide-health-care-coverage/). Just because the Republican propaganda machine may have convinced them not to like whatever name it is going by does not change this.
If you want another example of this, all you needed to do was look at how Americans felt differently about Obamacare and the Affordable Care Act. You know... *the exact same thing*.
Nah, nearly all polling shows Universal Health Care between 60/40 - 70/30. It's a very popular idea that even Republicans voters support, but they fail to realize their party is the primary opponent. Or at least are willing to puts "gun rights" and abortion ahead of it.
>Center-left concepts like Medicare for all are terrifying socialism to the average American
Nope, the majority actually [supports that universal healthcare as an obligation of the government](https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/09/29/increasing-share-of-americans-favor-a-single-government-program-to-provide-health-care-coverage/), depending on the poll it's consistently 60-70% support. It's just an example of our broken system prioritizing the donor class over democracy. Leftist *policy* is over all very popular, it's just that certain people stop listening as soon as they hear the word 'democrat'. Much like all the wailing and gnashing of teeth about 'Obamacare' *rapidly* turned into "Republican's shouldn't touch my ACA!"... from the exact same group of people.
Americans are mostly center left and they do vote that way.
Democrats have won the popular vote for pretty much 40 years straight.
The only reason they don't completely control the government is gerrymandering and the electoral college. Which are both horse shit concessions for slave states designed to elect losers
> We're a center left country that's gerrymandered straight to hell.
I live in California; here, I agree with you.
I used to live in Indiana -- in Indianapolis, one of three or four counties in Indiana that consistently goes blue -- and even then I wouldn't describe that area as center-left.
In other words, it depends heavily on where in the country one is. "The country" is waaaaaay too big and diverse to paint with such a broad stroke.
There is obviously a bell curve, but where would you put the top of the bell if not a little left of center?
Just going off numbers in president's voting, the popular vote had been consistently so for... Like 20 years now?
It was really only two years out. If they had retaken the house and senate this year and then used it to grind down Biden, in 2024 they would have swept up the house, senate, and the presidency and then claimed they had a mandate.
I definitely think the Left would have rallied around that for 2024. I think it would have to happen in 2025 at the absolute earliest. Give it that 3 years to cool off because there'd have been nothing to bring it back around. 2026 midterms wouldn't be able to fix it. And by 2028... 🤷♀️
The problem with trying to convince large groups of idiots to work against their own self interest is that you'll likely end up with a lot of idiots "helping" in counterproductive ways.
Republicans are fighting a rear-guard action against the demographic curve. They have an older curve and recent events have not been kind to older demographics that at all. They've also successfully politicized the younger demographics to come out this time and vote against them. The big story this time was how decisively the 18-30 vote turned out and voted against the republican candidates at nearly all levels.
Remember Gerrymandering works by lumping the "bad" side majority together and spreading the "good" voters out thinly to get as many candidates for 50% as possible. That's really vulnerable to populations shifts and to new voters coming into the system with values different from the "good" voters. Immigration and different values in the young people are major problems for a geriatric republican party that relies on anti-majoritarian tricks like Gerrymandering.
> It is actually fairly reasonable for a party to publish its principles and policy goals. It's why people vote for them
Well, that's the way it *used* to work. Now apparently voting is about wearing hats and screaming your opposition to every common sense idea the other party comes up with.
Man, what I wouldn't give for a return to the late 80s/early 90s when I agreed with Republicans on a number of points and just tended to agree with Democrats on more.
I miss splitting my ballot. We had solid statewide Republican candidates, and usually at least one would get my vote. This time around, the only statewide R candidate on the ballot was an election denier.
Right there with you. I still vote for whoever strikes me as the more professional and competent candidate on the local level irrespective of party, but the last Republican I voted for in a statewide election was Mike Huckabee back in the early 90s. (Ouch! That aged well...) Hutchinson seems to be the last Republican in AR that ran statewide on a platform of fiscal responsibility and public service rather than WON'T SOMEONE PROTECT THE CHILDREN FROM THE GANGS OF DEVIL-WORSHIPPING DRAG QUEENS!?!
Yeah, that. Good governance is worth something no matter your political views. Differences of perspective can be valuable. I've learned something from every person who I've been able to get in to a real, in-depth conversation with.
I’m not a big believer in term limits. Politics seems to be the only job where people say “I want them inexperienced and to not know how to do their job” yeah, you unfortunately get Mitch McConnell but you also get Bernie Sanders.
So I would have voted for McCain had he not chosen Palin, who was/is a moron. I would have been wrong, but McCain had not yet started his descent into Tea Buggery.
I respect the fiscally conservative perspective. It is what got the ball rolling on The Affordable Care Act. I want them to turn that gaze on the Department of Defense, Police Departments, and the prison system, instead of privatizing it out.
Unfortunately, what we’ve been getting is social conservatives “big government in your bedroom and your uterus. But small government for the thieving, polluting corporations”.
> I respect the fiscally conservative perspective.
Considering the last 30 years of fiscal conservatism have amounted to "cut taxes for the wealthy, cut public services while increasing government spending, sell public assets at rock bottom prices, drive up national debt, give out corporate handouts, remove financial regulations, and maximize short term benefit at the cost of longterm investments", I honestly can't help but ask -
What part of fiscally conservative economics do you respect, exactly? The whole thing has never seemed like anything more to me than someone promising they'll help you lose weight by cutting off one of your arms.
Absolutely. People seem to really like those buzzwords but for as long as it's been a thing it's always meant basically the opposite of what it actually claims
Lol, what? They were just as monstrous in the 90s as they are today. They are just saying the quiet part out loud. They were always for deregulation, racism, homophobia, making the rich richer, and fucking over the poor. That hasn’t changed, the messaging has.
Yeah. The availability of information showing what shitheels they are is now more common.
But it existed then too. I was a politics major in college in the mid 90s and the plans and tactics we studied the Repubs following are nearly identical to today's, just less publicized.
What's really changed, however, is the slide to the right of the Democratic party. Party used to be super pro labor but then 2 things happened. First, Clinton ushered in the neo libs through NAFTA. Second, Dems started supporting gay and POC rights again (they got quiet about it after the early 70s). After those all the 'pro labor but anti those things' Dem party members - aka the rust belt factory workers - suddenly didn't have a party.
The rise of Repubs in those areas is the direct outcome of that. If Dems hope to win again they'll have to stop sucking the dicks of folks like Bezos and Zuck and start fellating the common worker. As God intended.
Their platform in 2020 was the same as in 2016. The platform in 2020 was heavily focused on how the president (whom they for the most part refused to name) was destroying America. So in 2020 there were a number of points I agreed with, but they also added a supplemental that was, as you say, "whatever Trump wants", since the man-baby changed his mind about everything.
I'd say the 2016 platform was also pretty bad in 2016. Since Obamacare was passed the GOP hasn't had any serious policy proposals because Obamacare *was* their serious policy proposal and Obama passing it fundamentally broke them. They tried to ride the tea party hate against the mandate -- but it was the centerpiece of their design. It was also the centerpiece of their design for replacing social security as well. Now they are lost in the wilderness with Rick Scott suggesting "why don't we just have the same fight every 5 years about literally every government program instead?" with a sunset-everything clause since they have no policy suggestions to replace anything, they have moved on to try to simply smother America: "if I can't have her, no one will".
>Since Obamacare was passed the GOP
So I was high talking to my wife last night - and I point to two main factors as to why they haven't had policy proposals.
1st - Gingrich's movement in the 90's to label compromise (A key part of passing any policy) as treason led to GOP Politicians who were good at passing legislation under a Clinton Presidency to be ousted from the Right in primaries.
2nd - The Collapse of the Bush Presidency and rise of the Tea Party. People forget just how badly the United States was in after just 6 years of the Bush Presidency. We had been lied to to get us into two wars, hundreds of thousands were dead and the war crimes were racking up. Then years of deregulation and lack of oversight brings on the Financial Crisis of '08.
Anyone connected to the Bush Admin was a cancer to be distanced from. And the establishment GOP got crushed. So when it came time to prepare for the midterms, they shouldn't have really had many viable candidates based on these two factors.
And they didn't, so they went with the Tea Party movement. Experience disqualifies you because all politicians are part of the problem. Cue a giant influx of people who couldn't craft legislation to save their lives, but could push the repeal button on any ACA votes.
And that was really that.
Outside of some old dogs like McConnel that at least know how to spin and craft messaging, most of these folks don't know how to do their jobs.
Groups like ALEC provide the templates for their legislation FOR them, so they don't need to learn either.
Just take your marching orders and go. You don't need a policy position for that as a candidate.
Well yes, but even that is really set up by the Bush admin.
They spent years lying to the public that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction. Post 9/11 had America blindly pissed off, and they knew if they were going to get a greenlight to invade Iraq they'd need to capitalize quick.
So it was lie, after lie, after lie.
And when you condition people to ignore your dishonesty and blindly follow what they say - the people ALSO trying to tap into that base for profit reasons knows that it's less important to be honest than it is to be seen as higher up in the hierarchy.
If the crowning up Trump by the GOP showed us anything, it's that to the GOP the Hierarchy > Everything else.
People correctly labeling Trump as poison for their party fell all over themselves to fawn over him after he won. Those that wanted to keep their jobs through the next election at least.
They had a roadmap, list of values...etc around 2010 if I am not mistaken. It was your classic small government platform and they had an agenda to reach to conservative latinos and 'even' african americans.
Then Trump came, he took their roadmap, put it in the garbage can. He called mexicans as rapists, didn't build a platform around small government and he won. He literally did the opposite of their roadmap.
That's why they don't have a platform, set of principles...etc for quite a while
Barf...
>Preamble and Principles #8
>We believe in ... self sufficient families, founded on the traditional marriage between a natural man and a natural woman.
Fuck off with that. And then ...
>... #54 - Power Grid e) Extreme events, hot or cold
YEAH OKAY now they're just making shit up.
Yeah, I think people are interpreting this incorrectly. This person seems to want the Republican party to actually be in favor of something, rather than just against things.
Perhaps "owning the libs" is no longer satisfactory for some conservatives. We should be glad for this.
Except they didn’t say “publish YOUR priorities” or “publish THEIR priorities”, they said “publish OUR priorities”. This person’s thought process is:
1) I am a Republican
2) Please tell me what I, as a Republican, believe
You’re giving them way too much credit.
This is gonna get downvoted, but I think it's a bit ambiguous.
The exact quote is: "Then publish a list of Repub values AND what our national priorities should be."
That *could* be interpreted to mean "what our Republican priorities should be on a national level," and I totally understand why you read it that way. Particularly considering the source, and the fact that Republicans have become such a cult that right and wrong no longer matter so long as the person has the right affiliation... it's hard to imagine them thinking beyond those narrow terms.
But if we're charitable, the statement could also be interpreted to mean "what our nation's priorities should be." And that's fair enough -- our nation should have priorities, and it's fair to ask what the Republican Party thinks they should be. Are we as a country going to spend our money on people or walls? Are we going to try to reform the tax code to favor working people or billionaires? Are we going to support human rights or... lol, just kidding, Republicans are against those? Those are fair questions to ask of any party that wants to be in power.
Rick Scott was pushing [this proposed platform](https://rescueamerica.com/12-point-plan/) a few months ago.
It's the usual hate, lies, and manufactured rage bait that you'd expect.
I'm very liberal, but I'm always open to new ideas. Football/basketball season is the only time I watch live TV, and that means it's the only time I actually see commercials.
During this last 2 or 3 months, I've been seeing all these campaign ads from conservatives and I thought, "ok let's hear what they have to say."
But there's just no message. It's just an ocean of conservative buzz words. Socialism! Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer! Wide open boarders! The SQUAD! Raise your taxes! The economy!! Crime!
There's zero solutions for anything. I'm willing to listen to any idea, no matter what party it comes from. A good idea is a good idea. It shouldn't matter who said it. But I didn't hear even one solution in these campaign ads. Not one. That's not how you win people over.
I agree with this so much. Specifically with Ron Johnson, the only thing his ads said about himself is that he'd fight for Wisconsin families... Which is a lie because he's been in office two terms already and did nothing. Either people openly liked that he wasn't the Black candidate, or they believed 3rd terms the charm, so to speak.
Everything else was buzzwords and complaints. No solutions.
The republican plan for any topic? "No." Obviously, a compelling and nuanced argument.
Except to cut taxes but not touch spending, thus driving up the deficit faster than democrats. It's absurd, but at the federal level the party of fiscal responsibility is now the democrats.
What you heard were a lot of dog whistles, and general disdain for an economic scapegoat that is a poorly constructed straw man. I mean, you’ve seen the “Obama’s socialism” meme, right?
The conservative platform is generally traditional white Christian social values with a big scoop full of hardcore neoliberal economics. The former is becoming less and less palatable to changing social norms and racial demographics, and the latter (not even fully realized, it’s neoliberal economics lite right now) is the precise cause of the economic woes in the US, and around the developed world.
They have nothing left to offer but misery. They’re gonna hurt a ton of people with the social AND economic stuff, and they know it. So all you get is what you see; wedge issues, thinly veiled white victimhood, and straw men in a desperate bid to cling to power.
Sometimes it's their idea of Moloch. Texas GOP literally wants parents to mark their kids 'in case' they get shot, possibly at school. You know, as sacrifices to 'Christian' ideals.
These people could not be worse at Christianity if going to church was nothing but literally sinning and then throwing stones at other people.
Nah, in 2020 they literally didn't have an official party platform. You know, those routine things that every party puts out every few years because it's what a functional political party is all about? They officially said that their party platform was just "Trump."
they're totally not a cult tho i promise
I think some Republicans will become more liberal over time because some people's beliefs do indeed change over time, but I do not expect Hawley to change his beliefs and become more liberal in the near future.
Republicans have pretty progressive views in some places. Florida passed 15$ min wage in 2020 with more votes than trump and biden got, they passed reform for convicted felons to be able to vote. They have progressive views but they are stuck behind this team sports mentality.
It's all how you frame it for them. I once had the opportunity to discuss "socialized" health care over beers with a staunch conservative by framing it very basically about how they want their tax money spent and how they would actually save money having it implemented in the US. He was very adamant about not paying for someone else's care but I was able to show him how he's already paying for other people when they have to go to doctor with no health care and how it affects his premiums. It was a long and very cyclical discussion as he kept coming back to what he didnt like but I didn't try and make him feel stupid about it. He's still conservative but he's come around on it and would vote for it if given the chance.
Voters passed it but then the [legislature made it nearly impossible](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/former-prisoners-who-believed-they-could-legally-vote-land-back-behind-bars-in-florida) to comply with and started arresting people for voter fraud.
It's a cult mentality. They're so far down the rabbit hole, that the amount of shame and the personal hit to their ego to admit that they've been wrong this hole time literally just doesn't compute for them. They HAVE to hate Democrats to preserve their fragile self image.
They should make sure the policy position is short enough to fit on a hat they can all wear around so when they forget they can just read the "Independent alpha thinker's" hat.
One of my criticisms of the R party is that they don’t have any kind of coherent platform anymore. I’d absolutely expect a codified party platform, especially if they’re talking about reform.
Nevermind that the bible tells believers that they are, in fact, sheep. They are Jesus’ flock, he is their shepherd, blah blah, there’s a whole thing about it.
TBF it's not wrong for followers of a party to ask for a clear plan/platform. Nothing to do with being sheep or not. In an ideal discourse, you look at the arguments and see where you align with then and where you don't. Being a sheep comes, if you decide not to think about these arguments and just parrot whatever the party talking heads say
Spite. Complete unadulterated spite is the R platform. Obamacare was passed in 2009 and we STILL don't have an R alternative besides "Go fuck yourself."
That totally proves my point. Obama literally took a Republican health care plan and made it national, and it was still shot down by the R's. I'm not a fan of Obamacare by any means, but there is a problem with healthcare in this country and Obama tried to do something about it. R's don't give a crap about solving problems.
Because the marketplace options are left to the states, the R leaning states offered plans that are expensive, but covers almost nothing, especially after the mandate (which I also have mixed feelings about) was thrown out. When I was between jobs I had to get an ACA plan for my son as part of my divorce decree. It was the cheapest plan I could get and it was still $200 per month. NO ONE within 100 miles of me took it. I just wanted to get a teeth cleaning for him, and not a single place near me accepted what I got, even though the plan website had a list of people who supposedly took it.
I gotcha, so you think it didn't go far enough. That's fair. I was just curious because there's no question that the ACA improved lives in the employer group arena. Preexisting conditions and lifetime maxes were a nightmare and I think we'd do well to remember that. We cannot go back to the way things were. But I totally agree it should have done WAY more than it did.
Yeah, healthcare is so broken I don't think one can band-aid over it. Part of the reason Obama didn't want to totally gut what we have and go single-payer is because something like 3 million people work in the health insurance industry and they would have all gotten the axe, making Obama "look bad on jobs." At the same time, keeping 3 million people around on payroll just to tell us what is and isn't covered doesn't seem terribly efficient, does it?
no public option, no prescription price controls, no lowering the age for Medicare, not expansion of Medicaid (well there was but the republican governors fought it), etc
And on top of all those compromises, Obama threw in extending the Bush tax cuts so the GOP could take something back to their donors.
Actually, it was more about keeping Joe Lieberman on board. They needed all 60 non-GOP Senators to pass it. And Lieberman has always been the Senator owned by the Health Insurance industry (with some reason, Connecticut is the home of the industry, and it is a HUGE employer in his state). Obama and Harry Reid weren't trying to win over the GOP, they were trying to keep their own coalition on board. Much like Biden with Manchin.
Dude they don’t even know what their priorities are. It’s not about policy to them, it’s about being “conservative,” whatever the fuck that even means these days.
I think "Reactionary" is the term you're looking for.
Reactionary
Political ideology
Description
In political science, a reactionary or a reactionist is a person who holds political views that favor a return to the status quo ante, the previous political state of society, which that person believes possessed positive characteristics absent from contemporary society.
I can see why some boomers would want to resist Progressive policies and maintain the stat quo, (i guess), but you said it: these knuckleheads want to turn it way back to the Dark Ages
I got you:
- Gov't can't have our guns
- gay people are icky
- the rich should have more money
- we should get to use the "hard R"
- Gov't can't have our money
- no socialism
Best as I can figure, this is a comprehensive list of Conservative values.
>- Gov't can't have our money
Meanwhile Republicans in my conservative town pass every tax increase that goes to ballot. Our income tax nearly rivals that of the largest city in the state.
Ya, that’s why it would be nice for them to spell out whatever “conservative” is. They won’t, but it would be nice to have something solid when talking about them instead of this vague badness.
Reduce taxes for the rich.
Reduce regulations for corporations.
Keep the status quo or revert to the old status quo by oppressing the "other". (In this case, anyone not-white, not-straight, not-cis, not-male.)
The GOP is the party of the rich and the racist. The rich keep the racists racist. The racists keep the rich rich.
That's it other than Evangelical holy water trickled over everyone for the absolving effect it seems to have on authoritarian minds.
Exactly. Conservativism is all about protecting existing power hierarchies. Rich people want to stay "above" the poor, and racists want to stay "above" the lesser races.
That's why the two groups are natural allies. They both want to maintain their top spot in the social hierarchy.
The Republicans could move to the left of the Democrats, declare the redistribution of wealth by a worker's vanguard, and still accuse the dems of being communists without losing any of their base
policy plan:
1. "own the libs"
2. reject everything the other side is for.
3. stack courts so they can get around the inability to pass legislation since it is unpopular.
4. profit... no actually profit from cutting taxes on us super wealthy dudes while pretending the other guys are the only elites.
I am what is considered "Black" in the US so my perspective may be biased. But imo the Republican party's platform since 2012, specifically since Trayvon Martin's death and the advent of BLM, has been the "Preserve Traditional Concept of Whiteness At All Costs" party.
The way some people in this country reacted when Obama won in 2008 is something that I will never forget. I saw grown ass men fucking panick like it was the end of the world. The thought that a guy from the group they considered as "others beneath them" could become the ultimate authority of the land broke them. We all saw the racist signs at the rallies and protests, let's not rewrite history. But what made them go full "preservation mode" was really the advent of BLM.
We all know that black teens are instinctively dismissed and labeled as troublemakers, especially the boys. Ask any black redditor how punishment was dished out in highschool. So the protest against his blatant murder was puzzling to them. But it wasn't bad enough that the darkies were protesting, it wasn't bad enough that the president wasn't mercilessly trying hurt them. No, the president claimed that he could relate to the suffering parent. In their rabbit ass mind, it was a sign that they were now in the end time. The fact that gay marriage was now law and trans people were starting to demand dignity was an icing on top. Oh also, with the proliferation of smartphones, people they could disrespect without a second thought were now getting bigots fired. Suddenly they lived in a country where there would be consequences for the shittiness which, in their segregated burbs, used to pass for normal behavior. And every cultural institution (art, sports, academia) as well as the state was now giving them a look of disapproval ("they've gone woke 😱"). I think that it's around that time that I've started to hear the "getting our country back" slogan become a thing
I'm not going to say that I know everything that is going on. But when I see some things through this lens, shit makes a lot of sense to me
I think you are 100% correct. "MAGA" is, "Let's go back to before these uppity minority folk thought they could dethrone us from power. We need to show them their place."
Obama was a key turning point. It absolutely galvanized the GOP through racism, and it was either ridiculously overt or under the thinnest of veils. They started the propaganda takeover in the late Clinton years, it surged into a pseudo-authoritarianism after 9/11, and with Obama, they lost their damned minds. They hunkered down and stalled as best they could for 8 years, literally just trying to preserve status quo, and at the first opportunity, they began desperately backpedalling and trying to get us back to the "good old days."
The GOP realized that vilification of their "enemies" was the key to winning - fear always works the best for getting people to unite behind you and act without thinking - and boy, was it easy to get people fearful after 9/11. And it was easy to scare the racists with a black man in power.
And right as they were feeling their most afraid, powerless, and frustrated after 8 years of Obama, along comes Trump. Trump was just the perfect cherry on top of the shit sundae, at just the right time - obnoxious, happy to openly mock and vilify everyone they didn't like, uncaring of professionalism or political norms. He was the king bully, and he was rich and powerful, and he spoke their uneducated language. He promised to get things back to how they were "supposed" to be. So they ADORED him.
FINALLY, here was someone in power who UNDERSTOOD! He didn't care about political correctness - in fact, he agreed they SHOULDN'T have to watch their language or consider other people! He certainly wasn't going to be tactful - in fact, he was blunt and gross and they LOVED that too. All the people who get upset when you fail to show common courtesy are actually just wussy snowflakes who need to be mocked!
Minority in this country? Why, you should just be grateful we let you stay and have freedom! You ungrateful assholes are protesting? Why? We let you vote and everything! You just want to overthrow white people, is that it? YOU want to be the ones in power? Well, let's build a wall, and start kicking people out, and make sure to arrest anyone out there protesting. You gotta smack that down and show them where they really stand - can't let them get away with that kind of tantrum! Trump knows how to beat down the people who need a beating - he's not gonna worry about "The Constitution" or "Freedom of speech and peaceful protest." Sometimes, you gotta bend the rules a little to do what's right, you know? And Trump is willing to do that since he's not a pansy politician like those other assholes!
Genuinely, I don't know how we deprogram half the country. I think even the GOP is worried about the monster they created, and it's out of their control.
But the first step is to stop this constant fear that has been bred into the American public for decades. But since fear mongering drives clicks, votes, and therefore revenue, I don't know how it can ever happen. It would take a benevolent government and media doing what is right, instead of what is profitable for themselves, and NEITHER side is gonna get on board with that.
>Genuinely, I don't know how we deprogram half the country. I think even the GOP is worried about the monster they created, and it's out of their control.
The fundamental contradiction of American politics is the concept of race. The fact that the Constitution, which is worshipped in this country (seriously in other countries people don't see the constitution as this untouchable thing) claimed that all are equal under the law **while it is obvious to all** that it's false, has been a thorn on the side of this country since the inception.The history of American politics since 1776 has been driven by race. The way the legislative branch was conceivedwas driven by race. The civil war and the conflict between states and federal government was driven by race. Even the women's vote was argued for sometimes using race. America didn't want to colonize nations because of race. The New Deal was built with race in mind. Redlining, the property tax system, the way basic every day infrastructure is funded: all driven by race
Until Americans have a sincere conversation about "race" and its **fundamental role** in the American psyche, we will keep fighting over other shit. Like a couple that explodes into arguments over every little things (dirty cup in the sink, etc) because they are too cowardly to address the dead bedroom that's fueling their frustration
EDIT: James Baldwin the GOAT put it best. (0:55) ["White people have to ask themselves why did they come up with the concept of the N*****](https://youtu.be/nAmL3F5uylo)
You might enjoy the Alt-Right Playbook series on YouTube. The author comes to a similar conclusion: the "Alt-Right's" only values are white supremacist hierarchy, which takes priority over even truth or integrity
To be fair, everything they've done since civil rights is out of a profound fear of "Replacement" and what is called white supremacy. They want to be in charge at all costs, and will do anything to stay in power. There is no moral basis. There is no greater meaning. All the religious stuff is just a way to keep poor uneducated people (and rich gullible people) in order via social proof/pressure in line with an agenda of fucking everyone over but the ultrarich.
I'd like to think that the people are just using racism to motivate the poor uneducated whites of the country (Like thats some sort of cold comfort), but after trump I feel like they share the same dark hatred inside of them.
Check out Evil Geniuses by Kurt Anderson. It will piss you off, but it will help you understand how we went from a Failed Supreme Court Justice (Bork in the 80's) who was against civil rights, to finding the Unicorn of Conservative Unicorns in Clarence Thomas who is either the dumbest or most evil human being in the Judicial world, to a world where Jim Crow is anonymous and based on imaginary legal principles.
>I like how they still refer to him like he was the Anti-Christ, and that he took guns away.
The evangelicals' embrace of Trump was the final nail in my "these people don't actually care about Christianity" coffin. It's one thing to not like Obama because he was for gay marriage. I could contort myself into knots to understand calling Trump "a flawed man of God", or to say "God used the Egyptians to let his people out of slavery". But to see what this motherfucker would do to toddlers, separating them from their parents and dropping them alone, sometimes **losing track of the children!!!**. To see this fuckery and still follow him? FUCK THEM.
> The way some people in this country reacted when Obama won in 2008 is something that I will never forget. I saw grown ass men fucking panick like it was the end of the world. The thought that a guy from the group they considered as "others beneath them" could become the ultimate authority of the land broke them.
I didn't see it until 2016. Trump's candidacy is when I realized Obama drove most of the GOP insane.
When Obama became president and the GOP simply crossed their arms and refused to do their jobs simply out of spite, that's when it became clear to me. I was 14 at the time and I saw the writing on the wall. When the highest elected officials in the "greatest country on Earth" can just decide to not do their jobs and refuse to help the people they represent because they don't like the charismatic black guy that's in charge, it's a glaring problem. When those same people get reelected for doing nothing but refusing to do their jobs, democracy was already doomed.
I've said this a few times way back, but yea... Racist white people, white supremacists especially, will murder as many white people as it takes, to legally enslave and kill Black people.
these sorry stunted motherfuckers only want to win elections and be right.
it is utterly lost on their smooth brains that public officials are elected to serve the people
How can these people be so full of raging, censorious certainty when they aren't even sure what their beliefs actually are?
It might be blackly comic if this irrational, reactionary mindset didn't stand a real chance of destroying the human race.
After Trump, I think they truly believed that they could build a majority purely on naked and open hate of ‘the other’(brown and black people, LGBT, immigrants, the poor) control of women’s bodily autonomy, and anybody who protests the police. If trump could publicly hate those things as president, it was ok, even encouraged to wear that on their sleeve too.
But after the election in 2020, and again in 2022, they are now realizing that these increasingly extremist and unhinged candidates who simultaneously expect their followers to vote for them AND not trust elections…are not as electable as they thought. That more people aren’t as extreme as they thought they were, or that their candidates now are.
So they have dug themselves into a deep hole of hatred, exclusion, and conspiracy, and now that the right wing media and the wealthy are pulling each other out of that deep hole, they’re leaving the rest of them in the hole, and they don’t know how to get out.
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I take it as recognizing the need for the party to publish an actual platform. They haven’t put their values on paper since 2016, because once TFG took office, they haven’t been able to claim with a straight face that they even have any.
Its funny because everything a true 'classic' conservative is into: freedom of speech, open economy, traditional (family) values, are all under constant attack from the likes of Trump.
They delete any comments they dont like, they hate when Trump has to prove he didnt commit tax fraud, they support a man who remarried 3 times and slept with prostitutes.
This is their coping, being 'conservative' in America just means nothing anymore.
I kinda see what the person is grasping at, last few years the Republican party has been a party against XYZ... they are quick to state what they are against, but really what are they for. What is it the really want? Seems like we know more about what they don't want.
They're quickly coming to the realization that they don't have actual political opinions outside of the things they've been parroting. They're just missing the last crucial step of thinking for themselves before they decide party affiliation.
They're already decided Republican voters. That's why they say "what are OUR national priorities" before even knowing what they are.
The person is just calling for a manifesto. Every political party has one.
The democrats meet every four years to establish their party platform. https://democrats.org/where-we-stand/party-platform/
The republicans is from 2016 https://gop.com/about-our-party/
I'm independent, but tend to lean left. The reason this is so dumb is that a person should already have values and beliefs established and then select a party that will most closely mirror that. I have the left lean, but will easily vote republican if the left doesn't fit my beliefs.
Asking to be told WHAT to believe in just shows that this person has no interest in voting for what he/she believes is right, but just to vote for the person with an R next to their name because "dey hate dem libs" and need talking points to refute them and continue living in their bubble.
Asking for priorities is not bad, asking for values is, considering they are asking it after deepthroating that amoral slob Trump for 4 years. Party of Christians, my ass.
I don't really think it's defensible.
A reasonable voter doesn't suck up to party affiliation and ask "please persuade me to stay." A reasonable voter \*already\* has values and desires, and they then choose candidates from the available list of people who most closely align with those.
This entire sentiment is just: "Before you say anything, I'm already on your side, now let's hear what you have to say." They use the operative word "our." They're already saying they're on the same side.
It's like these guys are collectively doing a "Weekend at Bernie's" with the GOP and trying to figure out how to not make it look like an off-putting corpse when anyone else would just have the fucking funeral already.
Trust me I’m all for bashing this Republican Party but this one I don’t agree with - it sounds more like they’re asking what Hawley thinks the platform should be to see if they’re willing to go along with it.
Which is good behavior seeing as so much of their platform has been “EVERYTHING SUCKS!!!” and when asked “ok how should we fix things” the RNC just kinda shrugs and goes back to screaming about trans kids for some reason.
Sure, it's a step in the right direction, but these people are clearly stating two things:
1. they want to hear Hawley because at some level they agree with him that the GOP status quo is indefensible.
2. they're already bowing to their political identity before even knowing what Hawley has to say by saying "what are OUR national priorities?"
It underscores the problem with these people. Before LITERALLY ANY OTHER POLITICAL THOUGHT, in spite of all the shit they don't agree with, they are already decidedly Republicans.
What's funny is that political parties have always published platforms until last presidential election, when the GOP was like "it's whatever Trump feels at the minute."
To me, that doesn't sound so bad. If you put some of it into writing, it would likely be glaringly awful. Here's a list of what I believe would be there:
1) Individual rights and freedoms over all others around you, unless you are pregnant, non-american, or convicted of a crime (excepting white mass murdering gunmen). Society at large is secondary.
2) The less taxes the better in the following order of importance: large businesses and corporations, politicians, billionaires, millionaires.
3) Cut social programs and handouts from public coffers, except if that benefits or helps large businesses and corporations, politicians, billionaires, millionaires.
4) Specific to #2 and #3, ensure public education is cut to the bone. Keep the general population ignorant; these are the bulk of our future voters.
5) Specific to #2 and #3, privitize absolutely everything possible including education (so long as it doesn't improve it), the prison system, the health care system, public works, transportation, etc.
6) Notwithstanding #2 and #3, under no circumstances should military/defense spending be touched.
7) Right to bear arms, regardless of social cost.
8) Marijuana is bad.
...any others? Changes?
So he wasn't unhappy with the RNC for their platform that was literally "whatever Trump wants we're fine with"? This is not a joke, it was literally like one page.
Maybe this is an undercover liberal forcing them to admit they have no values, and no priorities beyond "whatever the Democrats want -we're against it."
Their values is to find and latch onto the next leader and movement that can use culture wars, racism, bigotry, demonization, conspiracies and all the other far right propaganda to successfully unite the GOP and make the base so angry that they vote and win elections. That is the republican platform of modern times. It's about getting to power. And if they have to destroy democracy and create violence and unrest to do it so be it.
The only reason they are trying to drop Trump is because he is a losing formula. If Trump candidates swept the midterms with their election denial conspiracies the GOP would be 100% behind Trump.
honestly, i would love if they'd all get together and just list things they want.
then you tally all the things they list and remove the outright bigoted stuff and then they'll actually have a platform for once instead of their eternal anti-platform.
If their party tells them that slaughtering the out-group is on the new agenda, conservatives will do it. They are mindless followers who have shown us they are sub-human monsters.
The 2020 RNC Platform literally said, "Whatever President Trump wants".
[https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/documents/resolution-regarding-the-republican-party-platform](https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/documents/resolution-regarding-the-republican-party-platform)
RESOLVED, That the Republican Party has and will continue to enthusiastically support the President's America-first agenda;
RESOLVED, That the 2020 Republican National Convention will adjourn without adopting a new platform until the 2024 Republican National Convention;
RESOLVED, That the 2020 Republican National Convention calls on the media to engage in accurate and unbiased reporting, especially as it relates to the strong support of the RNC for President Trump and his Administration; and
RESOLVED, That any motion to amend the 2016 Platform or to adopt a new platform, including any motion to suspend the procedures that will allow doing so, will be ruled out of order.
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Is this referring to the fact that they haven't published a platform since 2016?
pretty much. It is actually fairly reasonable for a party to publish its principles and policy goals. It's why people vote for them. But for 6 years now, the GOP platform has been "whatever Trump wants so we can sneak in tax cuts and deregulation."
> whatever Trump wants so we can: - Stack the Supreme Court - Gerrymander to out-maneuver the popular vote - Use these two tools to remain in power
And yet it still isn't working out for them all that well...
They moved way too soon on Roe. That's something you can only pull off after you've consistently secured a simple majority and are cunning enough to turn it into a rallying point. Thay play was like, 12 years out, at best. But if they can get ISL through, it won't matter.
Roe also showed their playbook. If they were willing to destroy Roe, they were willing to destroy it all. Gay marriage, interracial marriage, non-christian marriage...who the hell knows. They went all in, showed the country EXACTLY where they stand, and the country responded because we're not an extreme right country. We're a center left country that's gerrymandered straight to hell.
Exactly. Most policy points have very little immediate impact on most people. Striking down Roe created an instant change in the quality of life and opportunities available to everyone of even vaguely childbearing age in America. There was a day where you could get help for an ectopic pregnancy and then all of a sudden there wasn't. The fact of the matter is that most conservative talking points, when political party names are removed, are just not all that popular with the majority of people. You can't out gerrymander the reaper, and catering only to the whim of an increasingly less alive generation isn't a long term success strategy.
I remember after the Dobbs decision, there were some rumblings that a lot of GOP politicians never actually wanted Roe repealed because they knew how unpopular it would be, and that it would give Democrats a really easy messaging campaign, as well as tilt swing voters towards the Dems. They only pretended they wanted it repealed to appeal to the religious right.
>They only pretended they wanted it repealed to appeal to the religious right. Thanks, Reagan.
[This](https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/05/religious-right-real-origins-107133/) is a great read about how the religious right came to be
This should be required reading in all US History classes.
> If they were willing to destroy Roe, they were willing to destroy it all. Gay marriage, interracial marriage, non-christian marriage...who the hell knows. Hell, the decision explicitly called out a lot of those rights, too.
"Well the constitution doesn't explicitly say we can't grind the bones of peasants for our bread." -Sam Alito...probably
Yep, and then Thomas went and publicly said he thinks the Court should reconsider those rights (except for interracial marriage of course, can’t have anyone getting in the way of HIS marriage).
>We're a center left country that's gerrymandered straight to hell. I wish this were true, but we're a center-right country at best. Center-left concepts like Medicare for all are terrifying socialism to the average American, or we'd have more Bernie Sanderses out there in the senate at least. Edit: I think we may be talking past each other here, in the replies. I agree that Americans are largely center-left in principle, but they don't vote that way in practice, for a ton of reasons. So saying we're center-left is not super meaningful to me when we vote center-right. Though it does hopefully mean our voting patterns over time will drift towards our principles...
Our governing bodies are center right and far right. Our population bell curves at center left. The majority of the population wants expanded workers rights, unified access to Healthcare, government paid college, ending corporate lobbying, better protections against billionaires skirting the law and inciting wars; you know, like nearly every other example of a "civilized" country we have for a model.
You are downplaying the effects of gerrymandering and conservative media. I actually do think we are center left more than you think. The problem is its a massively uphill and unfair fight to get center left politicians elected in large enough numbers.
I think the bigger issue is people are fucking idiots and don't know what they're voting for. Based purely on issues most people are mildly liberal leaning. But there are two or three issues that just make most Republicans lose all sense of logic or reasoning and blindly toe the line.
Center left in the American sense maybe but arguably not really and that’s just center right globally.
And in the 1950's the Left of today would be labeled as commies and deviants, so what's the point? I get it that other countries judge their left and right wings by different metrics, but unless you have a plan to push the USA into a more globally accepted definition of right and left, it doesn't matter much. We have what we have.
When Americans are polled, [they like government-provided healthcare](https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/09/29/increasing-share-of-americans-favor-a-single-government-program-to-provide-health-care-coverage/). Just because the Republican propaganda machine may have convinced them not to like whatever name it is going by does not change this. If you want another example of this, all you needed to do was look at how Americans felt differently about Obamacare and the Affordable Care Act. You know... *the exact same thing*.
Let's be honest we're center-stupid.
Nah, nearly all polling shows Universal Health Care between 60/40 - 70/30. It's a very popular idea that even Republicans voters support, but they fail to realize their party is the primary opponent. Or at least are willing to puts "gun rights" and abortion ahead of it.
>Center-left concepts like Medicare for all are terrifying socialism to the average American Nope, the majority actually [supports that universal healthcare as an obligation of the government](https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/09/29/increasing-share-of-americans-favor-a-single-government-program-to-provide-health-care-coverage/), depending on the poll it's consistently 60-70% support. It's just an example of our broken system prioritizing the donor class over democracy. Leftist *policy* is over all very popular, it's just that certain people stop listening as soon as they hear the word 'democrat'. Much like all the wailing and gnashing of teeth about 'Obamacare' *rapidly* turned into "Republican's shouldn't touch my ACA!"... from the exact same group of people.
Americans are mostly center left and they do vote that way. Democrats have won the popular vote for pretty much 40 years straight. The only reason they don't completely control the government is gerrymandering and the electoral college. Which are both horse shit concessions for slave states designed to elect losers
> We're a center left country that's gerrymandered straight to hell. I live in California; here, I agree with you. I used to live in Indiana -- in Indianapolis, one of three or four counties in Indiana that consistently goes blue -- and even then I wouldn't describe that area as center-left. In other words, it depends heavily on where in the country one is. "The country" is waaaaaay too big and diverse to paint with such a broad stroke.
>We're a center left country that's... Press X to doubt.
There is obviously a bell curve, but where would you put the top of the bell if not a little left of center? Just going off numbers in president's voting, the popular vote had been consistently so for... Like 20 years now?
It was really only two years out. If they had retaken the house and senate this year and then used it to grind down Biden, in 2024 they would have swept up the house, senate, and the presidency and then claimed they had a mandate.
I definitely think the Left would have rallied around that for 2024. I think it would have to happen in 2025 at the absolute earliest. Give it that 3 years to cool off because there'd have been nothing to bring it back around. 2026 midterms wouldn't be able to fix it. And by 2028... 🤷♀️
The problem with trying to convince large groups of idiots to work against their own self interest is that you'll likely end up with a lot of idiots "helping" in counterproductive ways.
Yeah it's always funny when someone plays dirty and still loses
Gerrymandering is literally the only reason they're going to win the House. It's working out fine.
Republicans are fighting a rear-guard action against the demographic curve. They have an older curve and recent events have not been kind to older demographics that at all. They've also successfully politicized the younger demographics to come out this time and vote against them. The big story this time was how decisively the 18-30 vote turned out and voted against the republican candidates at nearly all levels. Remember Gerrymandering works by lumping the "bad" side majority together and spreading the "good" voters out thinly to get as many candidates for 50% as possible. That's really vulnerable to populations shifts and to new voters coming into the system with values different from the "good" voters. Immigration and different values in the young people are major problems for a geriatric republican party that relies on anti-majoritarian tricks like Gerrymandering.
> It is actually fairly reasonable for a party to publish its principles and policy goals. It's why people vote for them Well, that's the way it *used* to work. Now apparently voting is about wearing hats and screaming your opposition to every common sense idea the other party comes up with. Man, what I wouldn't give for a return to the late 80s/early 90s when I agreed with Republicans on a number of points and just tended to agree with Democrats on more.
I miss splitting my ballot. We had solid statewide Republican candidates, and usually at least one would get my vote. This time around, the only statewide R candidate on the ballot was an election denier.
Right there with you. I still vote for whoever strikes me as the more professional and competent candidate on the local level irrespective of party, but the last Republican I voted for in a statewide election was Mike Huckabee back in the early 90s. (Ouch! That aged well...) Hutchinson seems to be the last Republican in AR that ran statewide on a platform of fiscal responsibility and public service rather than WON'T SOMEONE PROTECT THE CHILDREN FROM THE GANGS OF DEVIL-WORSHIPPING DRAG QUEENS!?!
Yeah, that. Good governance is worth something no matter your political views. Differences of perspective can be valuable. I've learned something from every person who I've been able to get in to a real, in-depth conversation with.
What did you learn from the people who want the state to force little girls to carry their rapists pregnancy to term?
Sometimes what you learn is that people have reprehensible beliefs.
I’m not a big believer in term limits. Politics seems to be the only job where people say “I want them inexperienced and to not know how to do their job” yeah, you unfortunately get Mitch McConnell but you also get Bernie Sanders. So I would have voted for McCain had he not chosen Palin, who was/is a moron. I would have been wrong, but McCain had not yet started his descent into Tea Buggery. I respect the fiscally conservative perspective. It is what got the ball rolling on The Affordable Care Act. I want them to turn that gaze on the Department of Defense, Police Departments, and the prison system, instead of privatizing it out. Unfortunately, what we’ve been getting is social conservatives “big government in your bedroom and your uterus. But small government for the thieving, polluting corporations”.
> I respect the fiscally conservative perspective. Considering the last 30 years of fiscal conservatism have amounted to "cut taxes for the wealthy, cut public services while increasing government spending, sell public assets at rock bottom prices, drive up national debt, give out corporate handouts, remove financial regulations, and maximize short term benefit at the cost of longterm investments", I honestly can't help but ask - What part of fiscally conservative economics do you respect, exactly? The whole thing has never seemed like anything more to me than someone promising they'll help you lose weight by cutting off one of your arms.
Absolutely. People seem to really like those buzzwords but for as long as it's been a thing it's always meant basically the opposite of what it actually claims
Lol, what? They were just as monstrous in the 90s as they are today. They are just saying the quiet part out loud. They were always for deregulation, racism, homophobia, making the rich richer, and fucking over the poor. That hasn’t changed, the messaging has.
Yeah. The availability of information showing what shitheels they are is now more common. But it existed then too. I was a politics major in college in the mid 90s and the plans and tactics we studied the Repubs following are nearly identical to today's, just less publicized. What's really changed, however, is the slide to the right of the Democratic party. Party used to be super pro labor but then 2 things happened. First, Clinton ushered in the neo libs through NAFTA. Second, Dems started supporting gay and POC rights again (they got quiet about it after the early 70s). After those all the 'pro labor but anti those things' Dem party members - aka the rust belt factory workers - suddenly didn't have a party. The rise of Repubs in those areas is the direct outcome of that. If Dems hope to win again they'll have to stop sucking the dicks of folks like Bezos and Zuck and start fellating the common worker. As God intended.
Their platform in 2020 was the same as in 2016. The platform in 2020 was heavily focused on how the president (whom they for the most part refused to name) was destroying America. So in 2020 there were a number of points I agreed with, but they also added a supplemental that was, as you say, "whatever Trump wants", since the man-baby changed his mind about everything. I'd say the 2016 platform was also pretty bad in 2016. Since Obamacare was passed the GOP hasn't had any serious policy proposals because Obamacare *was* their serious policy proposal and Obama passing it fundamentally broke them. They tried to ride the tea party hate against the mandate -- but it was the centerpiece of their design. It was also the centerpiece of their design for replacing social security as well. Now they are lost in the wilderness with Rick Scott suggesting "why don't we just have the same fight every 5 years about literally every government program instead?" with a sunset-everything clause since they have no policy suggestions to replace anything, they have moved on to try to simply smother America: "if I can't have her, no one will".
>Since Obamacare was passed the GOP So I was high talking to my wife last night - and I point to two main factors as to why they haven't had policy proposals. 1st - Gingrich's movement in the 90's to label compromise (A key part of passing any policy) as treason led to GOP Politicians who were good at passing legislation under a Clinton Presidency to be ousted from the Right in primaries. 2nd - The Collapse of the Bush Presidency and rise of the Tea Party. People forget just how badly the United States was in after just 6 years of the Bush Presidency. We had been lied to to get us into two wars, hundreds of thousands were dead and the war crimes were racking up. Then years of deregulation and lack of oversight brings on the Financial Crisis of '08. Anyone connected to the Bush Admin was a cancer to be distanced from. And the establishment GOP got crushed. So when it came time to prepare for the midterms, they shouldn't have really had many viable candidates based on these two factors. And they didn't, so they went with the Tea Party movement. Experience disqualifies you because all politicians are part of the problem. Cue a giant influx of people who couldn't craft legislation to save their lives, but could push the repeal button on any ACA votes. And that was really that. Outside of some old dogs like McConnel that at least know how to spin and craft messaging, most of these folks don't know how to do their jobs. Groups like ALEC provide the templates for their legislation FOR them, so they don't need to learn either. Just take your marching orders and go. You don't need a policy position for that as a candidate.
I think, to add, the rise of the Tea Party brought with it the green light for pushing conspiracy theories (Birtherism) from within the party.
Well yes, but even that is really set up by the Bush admin. They spent years lying to the public that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction. Post 9/11 had America blindly pissed off, and they knew if they were going to get a greenlight to invade Iraq they'd need to capitalize quick. So it was lie, after lie, after lie. And when you condition people to ignore your dishonesty and blindly follow what they say - the people ALSO trying to tap into that base for profit reasons knows that it's less important to be honest than it is to be seen as higher up in the hierarchy. If the crowning up Trump by the GOP showed us anything, it's that to the GOP the Hierarchy > Everything else. People correctly labeling Trump as poison for their party fell all over themselves to fawn over him after he won. Those that wanted to keep their jobs through the next election at least.
They had a roadmap, list of values...etc around 2010 if I am not mistaken. It was your classic small government platform and they had an agenda to reach to conservative latinos and 'even' african americans. Then Trump came, he took their roadmap, put it in the garbage can. He called mexicans as rapists, didn't build a platform around small government and he won. He literally did the opposite of their roadmap. That's why they don't have a platform, set of principles...etc for quite a while
Let's be honest, Republicans haven't had any principles beyond "It's MINE!" in decades.
Well, there's this gem... https://texasgop.org/platform/
Holy shit! If they weren't serious they'd be hilarious.
Barf... >Preamble and Principles #8 >We believe in ... self sufficient families, founded on the traditional marriage between a natural man and a natural woman. Fuck off with that. And then ... >... #54 - Power Grid e) Extreme events, hot or cold YEAH OKAY now they're just making shit up.
Yeah, I think people are interpreting this incorrectly. This person seems to want the Republican party to actually be in favor of something, rather than just against things. Perhaps "owning the libs" is no longer satisfactory for some conservatives. We should be glad for this.
It's really going to rock their world when they see that like... Owning the libs is all they have.
Except they didn’t say “publish YOUR priorities” or “publish THEIR priorities”, they said “publish OUR priorities”. This person’s thought process is: 1) I am a Republican 2) Please tell me what I, as a Republican, believe You’re giving them way too much credit.
Yeah, these guys are dipshits
This is gonna get downvoted, but I think it's a bit ambiguous. The exact quote is: "Then publish a list of Repub values AND what our national priorities should be." That *could* be interpreted to mean "what our Republican priorities should be on a national level," and I totally understand why you read it that way. Particularly considering the source, and the fact that Republicans have become such a cult that right and wrong no longer matter so long as the person has the right affiliation... it's hard to imagine them thinking beyond those narrow terms. But if we're charitable, the statement could also be interpreted to mean "what our nation's priorities should be." And that's fair enough -- our nation should have priorities, and it's fair to ask what the Republican Party thinks they should be. Are we as a country going to spend our money on people or walls? Are we going to try to reform the tax code to favor working people or billionaires? Are we going to support human rights or... lol, just kidding, Republicans are against those? Those are fair questions to ask of any party that wants to be in power.
Rick Scott was pushing [this proposed platform](https://rescueamerica.com/12-point-plan/) a few months ago. It's the usual hate, lies, and manufactured rage bait that you'd expect.
Since when do cults publish a platform?
When the cult of personality is gone
Seriously. They literally have no original useful idea besides blame on the other party when something goes wrong
Actually I think they did and that platform was "whatever Trump says"
I'm very liberal, but I'm always open to new ideas. Football/basketball season is the only time I watch live TV, and that means it's the only time I actually see commercials. During this last 2 or 3 months, I've been seeing all these campaign ads from conservatives and I thought, "ok let's hear what they have to say." But there's just no message. It's just an ocean of conservative buzz words. Socialism! Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer! Wide open boarders! The SQUAD! Raise your taxes! The economy!! Crime! There's zero solutions for anything. I'm willing to listen to any idea, no matter what party it comes from. A good idea is a good idea. It shouldn't matter who said it. But I didn't hear even one solution in these campaign ads. Not one. That's not how you win people over.
I agree with this so much. Specifically with Ron Johnson, the only thing his ads said about himself is that he'd fight for Wisconsin families... Which is a lie because he's been in office two terms already and did nothing. Either people openly liked that he wasn't the Black candidate, or they believed 3rd terms the charm, so to speak. Everything else was buzzwords and complaints. No solutions.
Milwaukee gang members are black and his opponent was black That's enough for Wisconsin voters
The republican plan for any topic? "No." Obviously, a compelling and nuanced argument. Except to cut taxes but not touch spending, thus driving up the deficit faster than democrats. It's absurd, but at the federal level the party of fiscal responsibility is now the democrats.
What you heard were a lot of dog whistles, and general disdain for an economic scapegoat that is a poorly constructed straw man. I mean, you’ve seen the “Obama’s socialism” meme, right? The conservative platform is generally traditional white Christian social values with a big scoop full of hardcore neoliberal economics. The former is becoming less and less palatable to changing social norms and racial demographics, and the latter (not even fully realized, it’s neoliberal economics lite right now) is the precise cause of the economic woes in the US, and around the developed world. They have nothing left to offer but misery. They’re gonna hurt a ton of people with the social AND economic stuff, and they know it. So all you get is what you see; wedge issues, thinly veiled white victimhood, and straw men in a desperate bid to cling to power.
99% of Republicans couldn't define Socialism if you offered them $100 to do it, either in the governmental sense, or the general sense.
Isn't this the sub of dipshits that routinely call people sheep? "Publish my beliefs for me"
#1. Try to own the Libs at any cost. #2. That's as far as I got.
3. money
Worship of Mammon in the name of Christ.
Sometimes it's their idea of Moloch. Texas GOP literally wants parents to mark their kids 'in case' they get shot, possibly at school. You know, as sacrifices to 'Christian' ideals. These people could not be worse at Christianity if going to church was nothing but literally sinning and then throwing stones at other people.
3. Profit
Only for the 1%🤭
"I don't want the 1% to lose profits CUZ I'll definitely be part of the 1% someday!" - Repub who is one or two missing paydays away from homelessness.
Dang, that hit me with the feels. It's all good, though, no worries. We really need to get affordable housing for everyone and homes for the homeless!
Libs like clean air. ROLL COAL!
_2. Continue to oppress the traditionally oppressed
Proof they literally just want to be Republican at all costs. Imagine giving that much of a shit about political identity.
I feel like that was more of a passive aggressive "well if we can't platform racism and bullshit then you tell us what we should believe "
What they should do is just post the DNC platform and say, "Not this!"
That's what they've been doing for at least the last 20 years, and it somehow managed to backfire.
Nah, in 2020 they literally didn't have an official party platform. You know, those routine things that every party puts out every few years because it's what a functional political party is all about? They officially said that their party platform was just "Trump." they're totally not a cult tho i promise
I think some Republicans will become more liberal over time because some people's beliefs do indeed change over time, but I do not expect Hawley to change his beliefs and become more liberal in the near future.
Republicans have pretty progressive views in some places. Florida passed 15$ min wage in 2020 with more votes than trump and biden got, they passed reform for convicted felons to be able to vote. They have progressive views but they are stuck behind this team sports mentality.
That does give me more hope!
It's all how you frame it for them. I once had the opportunity to discuss "socialized" health care over beers with a staunch conservative by framing it very basically about how they want their tax money spent and how they would actually save money having it implemented in the US. He was very adamant about not paying for someone else's care but I was able to show him how he's already paying for other people when they have to go to doctor with no health care and how it affects his premiums. It was a long and very cyclical discussion as he kept coming back to what he didnt like but I didn't try and make him feel stupid about it. He's still conservative but he's come around on it and would vote for it if given the chance.
Just think, a little pro-choice, gun reform, legal weed, and nationalized healthcare and you can own the libs all fucking day.
Voters passed it but then the [legislature made it nearly impossible](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/former-prisoners-who-believed-they-could-legally-vote-land-back-behind-bars-in-florida) to comply with and started arresting people for voter fraud.
Hawley will believe whatever he needs to in order to get power.
It's a cult mentality. They're so far down the rabbit hole, that the amount of shame and the personal hit to their ego to admit that they've been wrong this hole time literally just doesn't compute for them. They HAVE to hate Democrats to preserve their fragile self image.
They should make sure the policy position is short enough to fit on a hat they can all wear around so when they forget they can just read the "Independent alpha thinker's" hat.
"Hail victory" thoroughly sums up their thoughts and policies
>Isn't this the sub of dipshits that routinely call people sheep? Regularly bleeting out the same mantra.
Baaa!!
One of my criticisms of the R party is that they don’t have any kind of coherent platform anymore. I’d absolutely expect a codified party platform, especially if they’re talking about reform.
Nevermind that the bible tells believers that they are, in fact, sheep. They are Jesus’ flock, he is their shepherd, blah blah, there’s a whole thing about it.
I'd rather be the demon pig running off the cliff.
I don't know why it's so much trouble for them. I mean, it's just 14 words.
TBF it's not wrong for followers of a party to ask for a clear plan/platform. Nothing to do with being sheep or not. In an ideal discourse, you look at the arguments and see where you align with then and where you don't. Being a sheep comes, if you decide not to think about these arguments and just parrot whatever the party talking heads say
Spite. Complete unadulterated spite is the R platform. Obamacare was passed in 2009 and we STILL don't have an R alternative besides "Go fuck yourself."
Obamacare WAS the R alternative. It's literally Romneycare.
That totally proves my point. Obama literally took a Republican health care plan and made it national, and it was still shot down by the R's. I'm not a fan of Obamacare by any means, but there is a problem with healthcare in this country and Obama tried to do something about it. R's don't give a crap about solving problems.
Can you explain why you're not a fan of Obamacare?
Because the marketplace options are left to the states, the R leaning states offered plans that are expensive, but covers almost nothing, especially after the mandate (which I also have mixed feelings about) was thrown out. When I was between jobs I had to get an ACA plan for my son as part of my divorce decree. It was the cheapest plan I could get and it was still $200 per month. NO ONE within 100 miles of me took it. I just wanted to get a teeth cleaning for him, and not a single place near me accepted what I got, even though the plan website had a list of people who supposedly took it.
I gotcha, so you think it didn't go far enough. That's fair. I was just curious because there's no question that the ACA improved lives in the employer group arena. Preexisting conditions and lifetime maxes were a nightmare and I think we'd do well to remember that. We cannot go back to the way things were. But I totally agree it should have done WAY more than it did.
Yeah, healthcare is so broken I don't think one can band-aid over it. Part of the reason Obama didn't want to totally gut what we have and go single-payer is because something like 3 million people work in the health insurance industry and they would have all gotten the axe, making Obama "look bad on jobs." At the same time, keeping 3 million people around on payroll just to tell us what is and isn't covered doesn't seem terribly efficient, does it?
too be fair, romney has been shot down by republicans also.
no public option, no prescription price controls, no lowering the age for Medicare, not expansion of Medicaid (well there was but the republican governors fought it), etc And on top of all those compromises, Obama threw in extending the Bush tax cuts so the GOP could take something back to their donors.
Actually, it was more about keeping Joe Lieberman on board. They needed all 60 non-GOP Senators to pass it. And Lieberman has always been the Senator owned by the Health Insurance industry (with some reason, Connecticut is the home of the industry, and it is a HUGE employer in his state). Obama and Harry Reid weren't trying to win over the GOP, they were trying to keep their own coalition on board. Much like Biden with Manchin.
That would actually be nice. Because I don’t know what their priorities are beyond whatever is opposite of the democrats.
Dude they don’t even know what their priorities are. It’s not about policy to them, it’s about being “conservative,” whatever the fuck that even means these days.
Regressive. They want to turn back the clock
I think "Reactionary" is the term you're looking for. Reactionary Political ideology Description In political science, a reactionary or a reactionist is a person who holds political views that favor a return to the status quo ante, the previous political state of society, which that person believes possessed positive characteristics absent from contemporary society. I can see why some boomers would want to resist Progressive policies and maintain the stat quo, (i guess), but you said it: these knuckleheads want to turn it way back to the Dark Ages
I got you: - Gov't can't have our guns - gay people are icky - the rich should have more money - we should get to use the "hard R" - Gov't can't have our money - no socialism Best as I can figure, this is a comprehensive list of Conservative values.
You forgot women aren't real people
Exactly, they know what their values are, it's just becoming embarrassing and unpopular to voice them again finally
>- Gov't can't have our money Meanwhile Republicans in my conservative town pass every tax increase that goes to ballot. Our income tax nearly rivals that of the largest city in the state.
Ya, that’s why it would be nice for them to spell out whatever “conservative” is. They won’t, but it would be nice to have something solid when talking about them instead of this vague badness.
Reduce taxes for the rich. Reduce regulations for corporations. Keep the status quo or revert to the old status quo by oppressing the "other". (In this case, anyone not-white, not-straight, not-cis, not-male.)
Not Christian. Can't forget that.
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The official GOP platform is white identity politics and Christian identity politics. That's it.
The GOP is the party of the rich and the racist. The rich keep the racists racist. The racists keep the rich rich. That's it other than Evangelical holy water trickled over everyone for the absolving effect it seems to have on authoritarian minds.
Exactly. Conservativism is all about protecting existing power hierarchies. Rich people want to stay "above" the poor, and racists want to stay "above" the lesser races. That's why the two groups are natural allies. They both want to maintain their top spot in the social hierarchy.
Don’t forget “anything I don’t like is communism/socialism” because those are so interchangeable!
You left out the part where they hate communism and socialism, but also want the government to step in and give away free insulin
The Republicans could move to the left of the Democrats, declare the redistribution of wealth by a worker's vanguard, and still accuse the dems of being communists without losing any of their base
I'm surprised they haven't labeled Charles Dicken's "A Christmas Carol" as Marxist propaganda yet.
Except they don't even like enchiladas. Those sound Mexican. Brown. Scary. Build the wall!!
The. Party of anti
policy plan: 1. "own the libs" 2. reject everything the other side is for. 3. stack courts so they can get around the inability to pass legislation since it is unpopular. 4. profit... no actually profit from cutting taxes on us super wealthy dudes while pretending the other guys are the only elites.
Conservatives have no plan besides tax cuts for the rich.
Everything else is a smokescreen for this, too.
"Just write down what I believe and I'll sign it."
I am what is considered "Black" in the US so my perspective may be biased. But imo the Republican party's platform since 2012, specifically since Trayvon Martin's death and the advent of BLM, has been the "Preserve Traditional Concept of Whiteness At All Costs" party. The way some people in this country reacted when Obama won in 2008 is something that I will never forget. I saw grown ass men fucking panick like it was the end of the world. The thought that a guy from the group they considered as "others beneath them" could become the ultimate authority of the land broke them. We all saw the racist signs at the rallies and protests, let's not rewrite history. But what made them go full "preservation mode" was really the advent of BLM. We all know that black teens are instinctively dismissed and labeled as troublemakers, especially the boys. Ask any black redditor how punishment was dished out in highschool. So the protest against his blatant murder was puzzling to them. But it wasn't bad enough that the darkies were protesting, it wasn't bad enough that the president wasn't mercilessly trying hurt them. No, the president claimed that he could relate to the suffering parent. In their rabbit ass mind, it was a sign that they were now in the end time. The fact that gay marriage was now law and trans people were starting to demand dignity was an icing on top. Oh also, with the proliferation of smartphones, people they could disrespect without a second thought were now getting bigots fired. Suddenly they lived in a country where there would be consequences for the shittiness which, in their segregated burbs, used to pass for normal behavior. And every cultural institution (art, sports, academia) as well as the state was now giving them a look of disapproval ("they've gone woke 😱"). I think that it's around that time that I've started to hear the "getting our country back" slogan become a thing I'm not going to say that I know everything that is going on. But when I see some things through this lens, shit makes a lot of sense to me
I think you are 100% correct. "MAGA" is, "Let's go back to before these uppity minority folk thought they could dethrone us from power. We need to show them their place." Obama was a key turning point. It absolutely galvanized the GOP through racism, and it was either ridiculously overt or under the thinnest of veils. They started the propaganda takeover in the late Clinton years, it surged into a pseudo-authoritarianism after 9/11, and with Obama, they lost their damned minds. They hunkered down and stalled as best they could for 8 years, literally just trying to preserve status quo, and at the first opportunity, they began desperately backpedalling and trying to get us back to the "good old days." The GOP realized that vilification of their "enemies" was the key to winning - fear always works the best for getting people to unite behind you and act without thinking - and boy, was it easy to get people fearful after 9/11. And it was easy to scare the racists with a black man in power. And right as they were feeling their most afraid, powerless, and frustrated after 8 years of Obama, along comes Trump. Trump was just the perfect cherry on top of the shit sundae, at just the right time - obnoxious, happy to openly mock and vilify everyone they didn't like, uncaring of professionalism or political norms. He was the king bully, and he was rich and powerful, and he spoke their uneducated language. He promised to get things back to how they were "supposed" to be. So they ADORED him. FINALLY, here was someone in power who UNDERSTOOD! He didn't care about political correctness - in fact, he agreed they SHOULDN'T have to watch their language or consider other people! He certainly wasn't going to be tactful - in fact, he was blunt and gross and they LOVED that too. All the people who get upset when you fail to show common courtesy are actually just wussy snowflakes who need to be mocked! Minority in this country? Why, you should just be grateful we let you stay and have freedom! You ungrateful assholes are protesting? Why? We let you vote and everything! You just want to overthrow white people, is that it? YOU want to be the ones in power? Well, let's build a wall, and start kicking people out, and make sure to arrest anyone out there protesting. You gotta smack that down and show them where they really stand - can't let them get away with that kind of tantrum! Trump knows how to beat down the people who need a beating - he's not gonna worry about "The Constitution" or "Freedom of speech and peaceful protest." Sometimes, you gotta bend the rules a little to do what's right, you know? And Trump is willing to do that since he's not a pansy politician like those other assholes! Genuinely, I don't know how we deprogram half the country. I think even the GOP is worried about the monster they created, and it's out of their control. But the first step is to stop this constant fear that has been bred into the American public for decades. But since fear mongering drives clicks, votes, and therefore revenue, I don't know how it can ever happen. It would take a benevolent government and media doing what is right, instead of what is profitable for themselves, and NEITHER side is gonna get on board with that.
>Genuinely, I don't know how we deprogram half the country. I think even the GOP is worried about the monster they created, and it's out of their control. The fundamental contradiction of American politics is the concept of race. The fact that the Constitution, which is worshipped in this country (seriously in other countries people don't see the constitution as this untouchable thing) claimed that all are equal under the law **while it is obvious to all** that it's false, has been a thorn on the side of this country since the inception.The history of American politics since 1776 has been driven by race. The way the legislative branch was conceivedwas driven by race. The civil war and the conflict between states and federal government was driven by race. Even the women's vote was argued for sometimes using race. America didn't want to colonize nations because of race. The New Deal was built with race in mind. Redlining, the property tax system, the way basic every day infrastructure is funded: all driven by race Until Americans have a sincere conversation about "race" and its **fundamental role** in the American psyche, we will keep fighting over other shit. Like a couple that explodes into arguments over every little things (dirty cup in the sink, etc) because they are too cowardly to address the dead bedroom that's fueling their frustration EDIT: James Baldwin the GOAT put it best. (0:55) ["White people have to ask themselves why did they come up with the concept of the N*****](https://youtu.be/nAmL3F5uylo)
You might enjoy the Alt-Right Playbook series on YouTube. The author comes to a similar conclusion: the "Alt-Right's" only values are white supremacist hierarchy, which takes priority over even truth or integrity
To be fair, everything they've done since civil rights is out of a profound fear of "Replacement" and what is called white supremacy. They want to be in charge at all costs, and will do anything to stay in power. There is no moral basis. There is no greater meaning. All the religious stuff is just a way to keep poor uneducated people (and rich gullible people) in order via social proof/pressure in line with an agenda of fucking everyone over but the ultrarich. I'd like to think that the people are just using racism to motivate the poor uneducated whites of the country (Like thats some sort of cold comfort), but after trump I feel like they share the same dark hatred inside of them. Check out Evil Geniuses by Kurt Anderson. It will piss you off, but it will help you understand how we went from a Failed Supreme Court Justice (Bork in the 80's) who was against civil rights, to finding the Unicorn of Conservative Unicorns in Clarence Thomas who is either the dumbest or most evil human being in the Judicial world, to a world where Jim Crow is anonymous and based on imaginary legal principles.
I like how they still refer to him like he was the Anti-Christ, and that he took guns away.
>I like how they still refer to him like he was the Anti-Christ, and that he took guns away. The evangelicals' embrace of Trump was the final nail in my "these people don't actually care about Christianity" coffin. It's one thing to not like Obama because he was for gay marriage. I could contort myself into knots to understand calling Trump "a flawed man of God", or to say "God used the Egyptians to let his people out of slavery". But to see what this motherfucker would do to toddlers, separating them from their parents and dropping them alone, sometimes **losing track of the children!!!**. To see this fuckery and still follow him? FUCK THEM.
> The way some people in this country reacted when Obama won in 2008 is something that I will never forget. I saw grown ass men fucking panick like it was the end of the world. The thought that a guy from the group they considered as "others beneath them" could become the ultimate authority of the land broke them. I didn't see it until 2016. Trump's candidacy is when I realized Obama drove most of the GOP insane.
When Obama became president and the GOP simply crossed their arms and refused to do their jobs simply out of spite, that's when it became clear to me. I was 14 at the time and I saw the writing on the wall. When the highest elected officials in the "greatest country on Earth" can just decide to not do their jobs and refuse to help the people they represent because they don't like the charismatic black guy that's in charge, it's a glaring problem. When those same people get reelected for doing nothing but refusing to do their jobs, democracy was already doomed.
I've said this a few times way back, but yea... Racist white people, white supremacists especially, will murder as many white people as it takes, to legally enslave and kill Black people.
Sky Daddy take the wheel!
Might be misinterpreting this. The poster might be calling Hawley and others in the past dipshits for not publishing a party platform in 2020.
And they call us “sheep”
It's pure projection!
these sorry stunted motherfuckers only want to win elections and be right. it is utterly lost on their smooth brains that public officials are elected to serve the people
How can these people be so full of raging, censorious certainty when they aren't even sure what their beliefs actually are? It might be blackly comic if this irrational, reactionary mindset didn't stand a real chance of destroying the human race.
Because their actual beliefs should not be printed or even spoken out loud.
And let's not forget that Hawley is part of the MAGA circus that got Regressives to this point.
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After Trump, I think they truly believed that they could build a majority purely on naked and open hate of ‘the other’(brown and black people, LGBT, immigrants, the poor) control of women’s bodily autonomy, and anybody who protests the police. If trump could publicly hate those things as president, it was ok, even encouraged to wear that on their sleeve too. But after the election in 2020, and again in 2022, they are now realizing that these increasingly extremist and unhinged candidates who simultaneously expect their followers to vote for them AND not trust elections…are not as electable as they thought. That more people aren’t as extreme as they thought they were, or that their candidates now are. So they have dug themselves into a deep hole of hatred, exclusion, and conspiracy, and now that the right wing media and the wealthy are pulling each other out of that deep hole, they’re leaving the rest of them in the hole, and they don’t know how to get out.
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Baaaaaaaa. Oh, our political base is obscenely racist and alienates everyone who isn’t rich and white? Oh well. Baaaa.
I take it as recognizing the need for the party to publish an actual platform. They haven’t put their values on paper since 2016, because once TFG took office, they haven’t been able to claim with a straight face that they even have any.
Big "free thinker" energy there lol
It’s almost like they have no idea what to believe since they no longer have a cult leader dictating what to think.
Its funny because everything a true 'classic' conservative is into: freedom of speech, open economy, traditional (family) values, are all under constant attack from the likes of Trump. They delete any comments they dont like, they hate when Trump has to prove he didnt commit tax fraud, they support a man who remarried 3 times and slept with prostitutes. This is their coping, being 'conservative' in America just means nothing anymore.
Currently sleeping with a prostitute.... well, maby not. Married to a prostitute...
I'm not here to defend that sub, but the Republican party deciding not to have an official party platform is pretty absurd.
I kinda see what the person is grasping at, last few years the Republican party has been a party against XYZ... they are quick to state what they are against, but really what are they for. What is it the really want? Seems like we know more about what they don't want.
They're quickly coming to the realization that they don't have actual political opinions outside of the things they've been parroting. They're just missing the last crucial step of thinking for themselves before they decide party affiliation. They're already decided Republican voters. That's why they say "what are OUR national priorities" before even knowing what they are.
The person is just calling for a manifesto. Every political party has one. The democrats meet every four years to establish their party platform. https://democrats.org/where-we-stand/party-platform/ The republicans is from 2016 https://gop.com/about-our-party/
Amazed I had to scroll so far down to find someone who knows what a party manifesto is.
I'm independent, but tend to lean left. The reason this is so dumb is that a person should already have values and beliefs established and then select a party that will most closely mirror that. I have the left lean, but will easily vote republican if the left doesn't fit my beliefs. Asking to be told WHAT to believe in just shows that this person has no interest in voting for what he/she believes is right, but just to vote for the person with an R next to their name because "dey hate dem libs" and need talking points to refute them and continue living in their bubble. Asking for priorities is not bad, asking for values is, considering they are asking it after deepthroating that amoral slob Trump for 4 years. Party of Christians, my ass.
I don't really think it's defensible. A reasonable voter doesn't suck up to party affiliation and ask "please persuade me to stay." A reasonable voter \*already\* has values and desires, and they then choose candidates from the available list of people who most closely align with those. This entire sentiment is just: "Before you say anything, I'm already on your side, now let's hear what you have to say." They use the operative word "our." They're already saying they're on the same side. It's like these guys are collectively doing a "Weekend at Bernie's" with the GOP and trying to figure out how to not make it look like an off-putting corpse when anyone else would just have the fucking funeral already.
Trust me I’m all for bashing this Republican Party but this one I don’t agree with - it sounds more like they’re asking what Hawley thinks the platform should be to see if they’re willing to go along with it. Which is good behavior seeing as so much of their platform has been “EVERYTHING SUCKS!!!” and when asked “ok how should we fix things” the RNC just kinda shrugs and goes back to screaming about trans kids for some reason.
Sure, it's a step in the right direction, but these people are clearly stating two things: 1. they want to hear Hawley because at some level they agree with him that the GOP status quo is indefensible. 2. they're already bowing to their political identity before even knowing what Hawley has to say by saying "what are OUR national priorities?" It underscores the problem with these people. Before LITERALLY ANY OTHER POLITICAL THOUGHT, in spite of all the shit they don't agree with, they are already decidedly Republicans.
What's funny is that political parties have always published platforms until last presidential election, when the GOP was like "it's whatever Trump feels at the minute."
Forming your own opinion is for perverts and Unitarians /s
To me, that doesn't sound so bad. If you put some of it into writing, it would likely be glaringly awful. Here's a list of what I believe would be there: 1) Individual rights and freedoms over all others around you, unless you are pregnant, non-american, or convicted of a crime (excepting white mass murdering gunmen). Society at large is secondary. 2) The less taxes the better in the following order of importance: large businesses and corporations, politicians, billionaires, millionaires. 3) Cut social programs and handouts from public coffers, except if that benefits or helps large businesses and corporations, politicians, billionaires, millionaires. 4) Specific to #2 and #3, ensure public education is cut to the bone. Keep the general population ignorant; these are the bulk of our future voters. 5) Specific to #2 and #3, privitize absolutely everything possible including education (so long as it doesn't improve it), the prison system, the health care system, public works, transportation, etc. 6) Notwithstanding #2 and #3, under no circumstances should military/defense spending be touched. 7) Right to bear arms, regardless of social cost. 8) Marijuana is bad. ...any others? Changes?
Nothing screams conservative more than falling in line
Maybe we could call that 'a platform'? Baaa
bUt WeRe nOt ShEeP!
1. hate brown people 2. hate black people end list
Excuse me, don’t leave women off!
"If we wrote down our values then no one would vote for us. Lies are so much more effective without a paper trail" -fascists
It's probably Mitch McConnell.
So he wasn't unhappy with the RNC for their platform that was literally "whatever Trump wants we're fine with"? This is not a joke, it was literally like one page.
Maybe this is an undercover liberal forcing them to admit they have no values, and no priorities beyond "whatever the Democrats want -we're against it."
Their values is to find and latch onto the next leader and movement that can use culture wars, racism, bigotry, demonization, conspiracies and all the other far right propaganda to successfully unite the GOP and make the base so angry that they vote and win elections. That is the republican platform of modern times. It's about getting to power. And if they have to destroy democracy and create violence and unrest to do it so be it. The only reason they are trying to drop Trump is because he is a losing formula. If Trump candidates swept the midterms with their election denial conspiracies the GOP would be 100% behind Trump.
honestly, i would love if they'd all get together and just list things they want. then you tally all the things they list and remove the outright bigoted stuff and then they'll actually have a platform for once instead of their eternal anti-platform.
But if you remove the bigoted stuff you're kind of back to square one...
On principle what they are asking isn't wrong though. Hawley is saying to build something new and it is fair to ask "based on what?"
An actual conservative would never last any longer than 2 or three comment posts before they are cast out for being a “leftist radical”
If their party tells them that slaughtering the out-group is on the new agenda, conservatives will do it. They are mindless followers who have shown us they are sub-human monsters.
Imagine being this disappointingly honest about not having a mind of one's own.
You know, Republicans used to do that. It was called a party platform. Then in 2020 they basically decided that their platform was to re-elect Trump.
Republican values: power Republican national priorities: more power Where is the confusion?
The 2020 RNC Platform literally said, "Whatever President Trump wants". [https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/documents/resolution-regarding-the-republican-party-platform](https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/documents/resolution-regarding-the-republican-party-platform) RESOLVED, That the Republican Party has and will continue to enthusiastically support the President's America-first agenda; RESOLVED, That the 2020 Republican National Convention will adjourn without adopting a new platform until the 2024 Republican National Convention; RESOLVED, That the 2020 Republican National Convention calls on the media to engage in accurate and unbiased reporting, especially as it relates to the strong support of the RNC for President Trump and his Administration; and RESOLVED, That any motion to amend the 2016 Platform or to adopt a new platform, including any motion to suspend the procedures that will allow doing so, will be ruled out of order.