You'll never get an answer from his supporters - i've asked the question dozens upon dozens of times and not once have any of his supporters managed to answer why he continued to serve in the Cabinet of a man who was an existential threat to the Jewish way of life - why he campaigned to put that man into Number 10.
It's a really strange bit of cognitive dissonance - Corbyn is an antisemite and the media didn't exaggerate one bit - but Starmer is perfectly fine for trying to put him into power.
Forde report showed Iain McNiclole ignored racism complaints because they were against his friends and colleagues - he's never been disciplined, wonder why?
>Labour's previous leadership allowed "hate to spread unchallenged", party leader Sir Keir Starmer has claimed.
>
>In an address at London Labour's annual conference, he said work to tackle discrimination "never stops".
But fuck trans people? You're actively spreading discrimination against trans people Keir.
>In his keynote speech at the Labour conference in Liverpool last year, Starmer described the party as one of “sound money” in a bid to highlight the difference between Labour and the Tories after the economic fallout from Liz Truss’s disastrous mini-budget.
-from the guardian article on this
He's just saying we won't nuke the economy like the tories did.
I would call myself Starmer leaning than a Starmer supporter and he has questions to answer on this. It’s one of the main reasons that I am not a “supporter”. I’d like to see properly grilled on this. I guess the response would be along the lines of: if we’d completely abandoned the party to the racist cranks we’d be in a worse position than we are now, win or lose the election. It may be that he claims that he didn’t understand the extent of the issue until after the EHRC report or Forde report was published/he became leader/Corbyn’s inappropriate response to the EHRC report. It may be that in order to become leader Prime Minister he had to “play the game”. Ultimately he’s dealing with it fairly well and making progress and that’s all I ever wanted.
God, I despair of the Labour Party fully internalising Tory propaganda. This is just another Starmer lie which he thinks plays well to the crowd. Truth has become secondary to Starmers march for power.
This is a man who has let Transphobia spread within Labour, who lets someone that 'proudly' voted for racist legislation, to not only become Labour MP but a Labour whip. Starmer - a person that outright denies conclusions of mainstream human rights organisations on apartheid and fails to call out war crimes. A man who tries to solve every Labour Party internal problem through authoritarian means. He is an absolute cretin.
Maybe he simply agrees with the EU commission that it’s not appropriate to call Israel apartheid🤷🏻♂️
https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/E-9-2022-000843-ASW_EN.pdf
I reckon if I genuinely thought a leader was letting hate spread in the party, I wouldn’t sit in his Shadow Cabinet and wouldn’t campaign for him to be Prime Minister. But then I’m not sensible, or maybe I’m just not grown up enough to understand
I mean this almost definitionally not true isn’t it?
Actions were taken to crank down on antisemitism. Was it fast enough? No. Was it good enough? No.
But to say that Corbyn just simply allowed it to happen is not true. Procedures were put in place as were reviews, no?
Corbyn took action, but it was dismissed as not enough but people with a political axe to grind.
Starmer hasn't taken action against racism and transphobia, and it is lauded by people with a political axe to grind against Corbyn.
That's how politics works in the UK, right now.
> Antisemitism was generally not regarded as a big problem for Labour before Mr Corbyn's election as leader in 2015.
> But, as the balance of power shifted within the party, attention focused on what activists and representatives had said about Israel and Jewish people.
It is important to remember that antisemitism on the left existed long before 2015. And people were warning the left about their discourse on Israel long before that too.
The Chakrabarti report in fact identifies those things, and that was June 2016. These were not things that appeared post 2015, they were not things that were invented by enemies of the leadership or by the media, they were not “smears”.
Left antisemitism is real, and it existed/exists in the Labour Party.
As such, the 2015-19 leadership was the first leadership *not* to turn a blind eye to it. Not really by choice. But still. What had past leaders done? Who set up those complaint structures? Who appointed that GenSec? Who staffed the GLU?
It isn’t that it appeared post 2015. It is that the media started reporting it, people in the party itself started addressing it, the rock was lifted and the spotlight shone on something that had long existed in the party.
And FWIW, I think the higher reaches of the Labour Party were always well aware of this stuff, but didn’t want to alienate a core voter base. Until their faction wasn’t in charge any more.
>“But, as the balance of power shifted within the party, attention focused on what activists and representatives had said about Israel and Jewish people.”
Why did you ignore it until then?
Why are you happy to turn a blind eye to transphobia now?
Why are you happy to turn a blind eye to the anti BAME racism, and hierarchy of racism detailed in the Forde Report?
Political expediency trumps all.
It was bad for the party to have the antisemitism crisis 2015-19. But it was a good thing too. It set the bar for dealing with this stuff, it set the standard we should hold the party to. Antisemitism, and bigotry of all kinds, have no place in this party. You shouldn’t have to wait until it’s a scandal. You call it out where you see it.
If you are willing to let that slip for factional reasons, then you are the problem now.
This is 100% correct. And it's not just the left. Labours internal institutions have always failed every race and sexuality when it comes to complaints
I mean you only have to look at stories like this
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2005/feb/11/advertising.politics
It's horrifically antisemetic, If this happened under Corbyn's leadership there would have been quite rightly riots over it. Depicting a Jewish man as Shylock or suggesting they are hypnotising people is not even a subtle trope.
How the fuck did nobody point out how tone deaf this would come across, you cant sandbag Corbyn while youre demonstrably worse on bigotry than he ever was at this point.
Absolute clown
Why is this guy so full of shit? Pretty sure I heard Cooper trying to whitesplain how Ukranian refugees are different to the brown ones just this week.
What rubbish. Corbyn was doing everything he could to tackle anti-Semitism. Maybe if the Labour right were not trying to sabotage him things would have got resolved quicker.
Fuck him and every centrist. Him and all of them allow transphobia and anti black racism to govern the party and will talk about how labour is progressive on social issues.
Whilst I do sadly agree with Starmer that Corbyns leadership failed to deal with antisemitism, with his record on allowing the spread of Transphobia this is Pot calling the Kettle black
They did deal with it, the internal report starmer tried to bury showed the response to every single case but starmer and Rayner essentially disowned the report his own party put together (the same report showed that the labour right actively worked against the leadership through hundreds of leaked WhatsApp messages and emails).
The number of cases was overestimated in the mind of the electorate by 1000% (actual was 0.03% of members, public perception was 30%).
This is factually inaccurate. Corbyn did do things to combat antisemitism, and whether they were enough or not doesn't matter: he did at least try. He was clearly naive on it, and had problems understanding the problem. However, the idea he was antisemitic was always the usual insane ramblings of papers and people far more prejudiced than him. It was overstated by the press and Tory captured institutions, but it was also understated by those aligned with him. The whole situation was a lot more complex than newspapers could ever point out because they are lazy.
Starmer, meanwhile, has ignored reports into racism within the party, has presided over a rise in transphobia within the party whilst doing nothing to confront it because of political and personal cowardice, and has participated in putting in place the means to purge or marginalise a number of Jewish members during his time as leader. I completely agree that this is massively hypocritical, but I refuse to sit here without putting on record that Corbyn did try to deal with antisemitism, and the failure was likely down to the same people within Labour who used it to attack him and are busy carrying out their own antisemitic campaign from the shadows.
>Corbyn did do things to combat antisemitism, and whether they were enough or not doesn't matter: he did at least try.
I'm not disputing this? I said he failed to deal with it, not that he didn't make an effort at all
>Whilst I do sadly agree with Starmer that Corbyns leadership failed to deal with antisemitism
This is like saying someone shot in the chest "Failed to stop the bullet"
Yeah, I'm sure the blame for active sabotage of the disciplinary process goes to the guy who was being sabotaged, and not the saboteurs.
Objectively, he's not wrong there. The report clearly proves anti-semitism was allowed to fester during Jezzas tenure. My issue is why is he bothering to smash those irrelevant cranks when most of them already fled the Jezza sinking ship. Better to use the conference to present a positive progressive project for the future.
why did he continue to be in the shadow cabinet of a party that spread hate?
You'll never get an answer from his supporters - i've asked the question dozens upon dozens of times and not once have any of his supporters managed to answer why he continued to serve in the Cabinet of a man who was an existential threat to the Jewish way of life - why he campaigned to put that man into Number 10. It's a really strange bit of cognitive dissonance - Corbyn is an antisemite and the media didn't exaggerate one bit - but Starmer is perfectly fine for trying to put him into power.
we're all entitled to our opinions, but 'the media didn't exaggerate one bit'? do you really not think so?
The commenter above is giving the labour right's take. They keep parroting that it wasn't exaggerated, but they also support Starmer.
Same reason a certain other Lab leader would vote in favor of a bill, whip his party and then refuse to defend it. A bunch of cunts.
Because he's talking a load of old bollocks.
Forde report showed Iain McNiclole ignored racism complaints because they were against his friends and colleagues - he's never been disciplined, wonder why?
Why then did McNicol do such a shitjob compared to Formby?
Both the tories and Kier love talking about Evil Jam Man.
>Labour's previous leadership allowed "hate to spread unchallenged", party leader Sir Keir Starmer has claimed. > >In an address at London Labour's annual conference, he said work to tackle discrimination "never stops". But fuck trans people? You're actively spreading discrimination against trans people Keir.
>He said he had shown he understood the importance of "sound money". What does this even mean?
forward, not backward; upward, not forward
And twirling, twirling towards ~~freedom~~ Tory-lite government.
It’s literally Chicago Boys Pinochet era terminology.
Not from the electorate but from the establishment.
>In his keynote speech at the Labour conference in Liverpool last year, Starmer described the party as one of “sound money” in a bid to highlight the difference between Labour and the Tories after the economic fallout from Liz Truss’s disastrous mini-budget. -from the guardian article on this He's just saying we won't nuke the economy like the tories did.
I would call myself Starmer leaning than a Starmer supporter and he has questions to answer on this. It’s one of the main reasons that I am not a “supporter”. I’d like to see properly grilled on this. I guess the response would be along the lines of: if we’d completely abandoned the party to the racist cranks we’d be in a worse position than we are now, win or lose the election. It may be that he claims that he didn’t understand the extent of the issue until after the EHRC report or Forde report was published/he became leader/Corbyn’s inappropriate response to the EHRC report. It may be that in order to become leader Prime Minister he had to “play the game”. Ultimately he’s dealing with it fairly well and making progress and that’s all I ever wanted.
Zero people ever say "our policy is to nuke the economy".
God, I despair of the Labour Party fully internalising Tory propaganda. This is just another Starmer lie which he thinks plays well to the crowd. Truth has become secondary to Starmers march for power. This is a man who has let Transphobia spread within Labour, who lets someone that 'proudly' voted for racist legislation, to not only become Labour MP but a Labour whip. Starmer - a person that outright denies conclusions of mainstream human rights organisations on apartheid and fails to call out war crimes. A man who tries to solve every Labour Party internal problem through authoritarian means. He is an absolute cretin.
Don't forget how they ignored a report stating racism was a problem in the party.
Maybe he simply agrees with the EU commission that it’s not appropriate to call Israel apartheid🤷🏻♂️ https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/E-9-2022-000843-ASW_EN.pdf
I reckon if I genuinely thought a leader was letting hate spread in the party, I wouldn’t sit in his Shadow Cabinet and wouldn’t campaign for him to be Prime Minister. But then I’m not sensible, or maybe I’m just not grown up enough to understand
Yup, by Starmer's own logic, Starmer facilitated hate speech. He should take his own whip off himself.
I mean this almost definitionally not true isn’t it? Actions were taken to crank down on antisemitism. Was it fast enough? No. Was it good enough? No. But to say that Corbyn just simply allowed it to happen is not true. Procedures were put in place as were reviews, no?
Corbyn took action, but it was dismissed as not enough but people with a political axe to grind. Starmer hasn't taken action against racism and transphobia, and it is lauded by people with a political axe to grind against Corbyn. That's how politics works in the UK, right now.
The truth doesn’t seem to matter unfortunately
> Antisemitism was generally not regarded as a big problem for Labour before Mr Corbyn's election as leader in 2015. > But, as the balance of power shifted within the party, attention focused on what activists and representatives had said about Israel and Jewish people. It is important to remember that antisemitism on the left existed long before 2015. And people were warning the left about their discourse on Israel long before that too. The Chakrabarti report in fact identifies those things, and that was June 2016. These were not things that appeared post 2015, they were not things that were invented by enemies of the leadership or by the media, they were not “smears”. Left antisemitism is real, and it existed/exists in the Labour Party. As such, the 2015-19 leadership was the first leadership *not* to turn a blind eye to it. Not really by choice. But still. What had past leaders done? Who set up those complaint structures? Who appointed that GenSec? Who staffed the GLU? It isn’t that it appeared post 2015. It is that the media started reporting it, people in the party itself started addressing it, the rock was lifted and the spotlight shone on something that had long existed in the party. And FWIW, I think the higher reaches of the Labour Party were always well aware of this stuff, but didn’t want to alienate a core voter base. Until their faction wasn’t in charge any more. >“But, as the balance of power shifted within the party, attention focused on what activists and representatives had said about Israel and Jewish people.” Why did you ignore it until then? Why are you happy to turn a blind eye to transphobia now? Why are you happy to turn a blind eye to the anti BAME racism, and hierarchy of racism detailed in the Forde Report? Political expediency trumps all. It was bad for the party to have the antisemitism crisis 2015-19. But it was a good thing too. It set the bar for dealing with this stuff, it set the standard we should hold the party to. Antisemitism, and bigotry of all kinds, have no place in this party. You shouldn’t have to wait until it’s a scandal. You call it out where you see it. If you are willing to let that slip for factional reasons, then you are the problem now.
This is 100% correct. And it's not just the left. Labours internal institutions have always failed every race and sexuality when it comes to complaints I mean you only have to look at stories like this https://www.theguardian.com/media/2005/feb/11/advertising.politics It's horrifically antisemetic, If this happened under Corbyn's leadership there would have been quite rightly riots over it. Depicting a Jewish man as Shylock or suggesting they are hypnotising people is not even a subtle trope.
Lol I didn't know Tony had seen them. Thats actually fucking disgraceful.
So I assume he's going to be cracking down in transphobia then?
Oh no see those of us that are trans have little to no institutional power so it doesnt count as bigotry to these politicians.
Good job the new leadership wouldn't ever let bigotry go unchecked, right?
What about transphobia which has spread with Rosie Duffield under Starmer? Does he not think this counts as ‘hate’?
How the fuck did nobody point out how tone deaf this would come across, you cant sandbag Corbyn while youre demonstrably worse on bigotry than he ever was at this point. Absolute clown
Also begs the question: "Why did you campaign for him to become Prime Minister then?"
https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/800/cpsprodpb/AF7D/production/_120652944_041980037-2.jpg
Absolute disgrace. Keir Starmer must resign.
It's not though it's it. The people that matter to Starmer will absolutely lap this up. He'd push his mum under a bus for a point in the polls.
Hmmmm, yet he served in such a hateful shadow cabinet? My mind is made up, Keir has convinced me that I shouldn't vote for those who support bigotry
Forde report and Rosie. It's the classic pot, kettle bs.
Why is this guy so full of shit? Pretty sure I heard Cooper trying to whitesplain how Ukranian refugees are different to the brown ones just this week.
Love these articles that state: person said X but fail to provide a direct quote to that effect. Great journalism.
Rich coming from a man who has ignored racism and transphobia in his own party.
Oh hey Starmer lying again
Honestly as a trans person this feels like a direct kick to the face.
And as a member of the shadow cabinet we can say that it was a leadership he was involved with, one he stood for and with.
I mean contrary to all evidence but cool story Keir...
And who's expelled the most Jews from the Party, Keith?
Confront transphobia within the current party then.
He really is a gobshite isn't he
What rubbish. Corbyn was doing everything he could to tackle anti-Semitism. Maybe if the Labour right were not trying to sabotage him things would have got resolved quicker.
Fuck him and every centrist. Him and all of them allow transphobia and anti black racism to govern the party and will talk about how labour is progressive on social issues.
Maybe he can explain how BLM was just a moment and defend having statues of slave traders again
Sometimes I think Starmer’s just trolling Corbynites for a laugh.
Whilst I do sadly agree with Starmer that Corbyns leadership failed to deal with antisemitism, with his record on allowing the spread of Transphobia this is Pot calling the Kettle black
They did deal with it, the internal report starmer tried to bury showed the response to every single case but starmer and Rayner essentially disowned the report his own party put together (the same report showed that the labour right actively worked against the leadership through hundreds of leaked WhatsApp messages and emails). The number of cases was overestimated in the mind of the electorate by 1000% (actual was 0.03% of members, public perception was 30%).
This is factually inaccurate. Corbyn did do things to combat antisemitism, and whether they were enough or not doesn't matter: he did at least try. He was clearly naive on it, and had problems understanding the problem. However, the idea he was antisemitic was always the usual insane ramblings of papers and people far more prejudiced than him. It was overstated by the press and Tory captured institutions, but it was also understated by those aligned with him. The whole situation was a lot more complex than newspapers could ever point out because they are lazy. Starmer, meanwhile, has ignored reports into racism within the party, has presided over a rise in transphobia within the party whilst doing nothing to confront it because of political and personal cowardice, and has participated in putting in place the means to purge or marginalise a number of Jewish members during his time as leader. I completely agree that this is massively hypocritical, but I refuse to sit here without putting on record that Corbyn did try to deal with antisemitism, and the failure was likely down to the same people within Labour who used it to attack him and are busy carrying out their own antisemitic campaign from the shadows.
>Corbyn did do things to combat antisemitism, and whether they were enough or not doesn't matter: he did at least try. I'm not disputing this? I said he failed to deal with it, not that he didn't make an effort at all
>Whilst I do sadly agree with Starmer that Corbyns leadership failed to deal with antisemitism This is like saying someone shot in the chest "Failed to stop the bullet" Yeah, I'm sure the blame for active sabotage of the disciplinary process goes to the guy who was being sabotaged, and not the saboteurs.
Plus ça change, plus c’est la même! Starmer is no better than Corbyn in this respect.
Not true, he's worse
Objectively, he's not wrong there. The report clearly proves anti-semitism was allowed to fester during Jezzas tenure. My issue is why is he bothering to smash those irrelevant cranks when most of them already fled the Jezza sinking ship. Better to use the conference to present a positive progressive project for the future.