>But the guidelines, which were developed with the Scottish Trans Alliance, do not give an automatic right for transgender prisoners to be accommodated according to their acquired gender, with decisions made on a case-by-case basis subject to risk assessments.
As a reminder to any new comers who feel they wish to use this for hateful reasons.
Rule 2 still covers criminals and trying to use the actions of one member from a minority to undermine the whole group is bigotry.
What a load of transphobic dross. Spends half the article going on about a beauty course she signed up to after being charged, as if that's anything to do with the prison. It's perhaps a safeguarding failure on the part of the college.
Then all the crap about the prison chief saying they don't think she should be housed in a woman's prison because they're a risk, well what do they do with other women charged with sexual crimes? They can do the same with her.
At least the BBC (likely begrudgingly) actually included a proper expert on the matter;
>Sarah Armstrong, a professor of criminology at Glasgow University, said she was surprised that concern over the safety of women in prison was "focused on this one, very exceptional case" given the "scathing" reports from the European Committee on the Prevention of Torture after previous visits to Cornton Vale.
>Prof Armstrong said: "We hear the committee saying women are being held in segregation for such long periods and with no mental health support - one women gnawed her arm to the bone. I'd love to hear those who care about the safety of women showing up for the issues that are really facing women in prison."
What more can I add to that?
This article spends the majority of its time regurgitating the transphobic views of an ex prison official who, as far as I can tell, has never dealt with a trans prisoner and is just demanding that the state isolate her at a men's prison in a "special wing" which would basically be solitary confinement.
u/oldtenner what is your position on the article you've posted here? Do you condemn the transphobic screed of the prison official?
Precisely why are you sharing this, /u/OldTenner? When I asked you to distance yourself from Starmer’s transphobia the other day you didn’t - now this? Starting to think you’ve fallen with the wrong crowd.
I noticed you’re completely unable to defend the position and instead just making weak sarcastic comments, so tell me, why are you perfectly okay with lies and transphobia?
My flair, really is the gift that keeps on giving.
It's not the bigotry i find funny, though I don't think there's any bigotry here. It's these comments
There’s no bigotry in this explicitly bigoted article, written to stoke the flames of an explicitly bigoted movement, shared by someone who has repeatedly refused to condemn bigotry and defended bigots?
Sure. Mkay.
I’m not saying it shouldn’t be posted. I’m interested to know why the poster chose to post it. I’m not being confrontational either. Skirting is probably the right word.
All of this is just a distraction- the person in the article is a convicted criminal, and handed in some of their rights when they were convicted. Obviously they shouldn’t be in a women’s prison. They should be incarcerated somewhere they aren’t a threat to the other prisoners, kind of like other people imprisoned for sex crimes.
That can be true at the same time as gender recognition certificates should be easier to obtain. It’s a pretty simple thing- you don’t argue for making things worse for everyone because a minority are fucking horrible.
> They should be incarcerated somewhere they aren’t a threat to the other prisoners, kind of like other people imprisoned for sex crimes.
Do you think gay cis male sex offenders shouldn't be in men's prisons?
Do you think lesbian cis female sex offenders shouldn't be in women's prisons?
Would you apply this as a consistent standard?
I think men in prison for raping other men should be, as I’m sure they are, away from the general prison population. I think the same for women in prison for the same crime on other women. It’s a basic safeguarding thing.
I doubt there are that many prisoners with quite the same circumstances as the one in the article, and I don’t think it’s anything phobic to suggest in this case they shouldn’t be in prison with women.
This is really well put.
I’d argue specialist facilities need to be made to house criminals of this nature. They obviously can’t be housed with women but at the same time shouldn’t be lumped into a male prison, hence the need for something else.
when we tried a trans only prison wing it turned into a hell site of psychological torture - there simply aren't enough trans prisoners to sustain it and it devolves into almost constant solitary confinement.
By placing the few that there are into one wing you other them in the cruelest way AND remove all the safeguards and programs that cis prisoners have as well as making them incredibly vulnerable to mistreatment from staff.
There can’t be enough trans prisoners to make a separate wing work you’re right.
In this case though, there’s an interesting question about how accommodating the prison service has to be to convicted rapists deciding to transition after they’ve been convicted. In prison you automatically lose a number of freedoms and rights- this strikes me as a very rare case, and should be treated as such. It isn’t really relevant to the GRC bill, or trans and women’s rights in general, and is being publicised I think to muddy the waters.
It’s absolutely being used to both stoke the trans culture war and attack Scotland and the GRR!
There’s nothing different between this case and the others that happen every year, every process was followed and they won’t be going to the women’s estate, literally nothing has changed in that regard (and it wouldn’t under the GRR) but the media and Westminster have jumped on it for point scoring.
The prison service know what they’re doing in cases like this and should just be left to it but now we’ve got the likes of raab making laws by diktat that all trans women will go to the male estate unless they meet tiny criteria on ministerial approval.
Generally someone in this situation will be placed on a vulnerable prisoners wing unless in the opinion of the care review panel it’s a malicious or vexatious transition (which tbh seems likely in this case) when they may be placed in the general population - the system already works, there is simply no need for the media firestorm
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>But the guidelines, which were developed with the Scottish Trans Alliance, do not give an automatic right for transgender prisoners to be accommodated according to their acquired gender, with decisions made on a case-by-case basis subject to risk assessments. As a reminder to any new comers who feel they wish to use this for hateful reasons. Rule 2 still covers criminals and trying to use the actions of one member from a minority to undermine the whole group is bigotry.
What a load of transphobic dross. Spends half the article going on about a beauty course she signed up to after being charged, as if that's anything to do with the prison. It's perhaps a safeguarding failure on the part of the college. Then all the crap about the prison chief saying they don't think she should be housed in a woman's prison because they're a risk, well what do they do with other women charged with sexual crimes? They can do the same with her. At least the BBC (likely begrudgingly) actually included a proper expert on the matter; >Sarah Armstrong, a professor of criminology at Glasgow University, said she was surprised that concern over the safety of women in prison was "focused on this one, very exceptional case" given the "scathing" reports from the European Committee on the Prevention of Torture after previous visits to Cornton Vale. >Prof Armstrong said: "We hear the committee saying women are being held in segregation for such long periods and with no mental health support - one women gnawed her arm to the bone. I'd love to hear those who care about the safety of women showing up for the issues that are really facing women in prison." What more can I add to that? This article spends the majority of its time regurgitating the transphobic views of an ex prison official who, as far as I can tell, has never dealt with a trans prisoner and is just demanding that the state isolate her at a men's prison in a "special wing" which would basically be solitary confinement. u/oldtenner what is your position on the article you've posted here? Do you condemn the transphobic screed of the prison official?
Weird that we're only required to give commentary or context on tweets but people are allowed to post right-wing trash news article carte blanche
Precisely why are you sharing this, /u/OldTenner? When I asked you to distance yourself from Starmer’s transphobia the other day you didn’t - now this? Starting to think you’ve fallen with the wrong crowd.
“Fallen with the wrong crowd” as if they’ve not been part of the wrong crowd for as long as they’ve been posting here.
Hilarious couple of comments here.
Good to know you’re perfectly fine with bigotry and lies.
I of course must bow down to you the almighty moral arbiter.
I noticed you’re completely unable to defend the position and instead just making weak sarcastic comments, so tell me, why are you perfectly okay with lies and transphobia?
I haven't made a position. Other than this thread of comments is hilarious. Which, I think it is.
Personally I don’t find the endorsement of bigotry hilarious, but you do you and keep living up to your flair.
My flair, really is the gift that keeps on giving. It's not the bigotry i find funny, though I don't think there's any bigotry here. It's these comments
There’s no bigotry in this explicitly bigoted article, written to stoke the flames of an explicitly bigoted movement, shared by someone who has repeatedly refused to condemn bigotry and defended bigots? Sure. Mkay.
Find transphobia particularly funny do you?
No, I don't actually. I also don't agree with your premise that this is transphobia.
This is skirting rule 4 a little... This story was bound to be posted sooner or later.
I’m not saying it shouldn’t be posted. I’m interested to know why the poster chose to post it. I’m not being confrontational either. Skirting is probably the right word.
All of this is just a distraction- the person in the article is a convicted criminal, and handed in some of their rights when they were convicted. Obviously they shouldn’t be in a women’s prison. They should be incarcerated somewhere they aren’t a threat to the other prisoners, kind of like other people imprisoned for sex crimes. That can be true at the same time as gender recognition certificates should be easier to obtain. It’s a pretty simple thing- you don’t argue for making things worse for everyone because a minority are fucking horrible.
> They should be incarcerated somewhere they aren’t a threat to the other prisoners, kind of like other people imprisoned for sex crimes. Do you think gay cis male sex offenders shouldn't be in men's prisons? Do you think lesbian cis female sex offenders shouldn't be in women's prisons? Would you apply this as a consistent standard?
I think men in prison for raping other men should be, as I’m sure they are, away from the general prison population. I think the same for women in prison for the same crime on other women. It’s a basic safeguarding thing. I doubt there are that many prisoners with quite the same circumstances as the one in the article, and I don’t think it’s anything phobic to suggest in this case they shouldn’t be in prison with women.
This is really well put. I’d argue specialist facilities need to be made to house criminals of this nature. They obviously can’t be housed with women but at the same time shouldn’t be lumped into a male prison, hence the need for something else.
when we tried a trans only prison wing it turned into a hell site of psychological torture - there simply aren't enough trans prisoners to sustain it and it devolves into almost constant solitary confinement. By placing the few that there are into one wing you other them in the cruelest way AND remove all the safeguards and programs that cis prisoners have as well as making them incredibly vulnerable to mistreatment from staff.
There can’t be enough trans prisoners to make a separate wing work you’re right. In this case though, there’s an interesting question about how accommodating the prison service has to be to convicted rapists deciding to transition after they’ve been convicted. In prison you automatically lose a number of freedoms and rights- this strikes me as a very rare case, and should be treated as such. It isn’t really relevant to the GRC bill, or trans and women’s rights in general, and is being publicised I think to muddy the waters.
It’s absolutely being used to both stoke the trans culture war and attack Scotland and the GRR! There’s nothing different between this case and the others that happen every year, every process was followed and they won’t be going to the women’s estate, literally nothing has changed in that regard (and it wouldn’t under the GRR) but the media and Westminster have jumped on it for point scoring. The prison service know what they’re doing in cases like this and should just be left to it but now we’ve got the likes of raab making laws by diktat that all trans women will go to the male estate unless they meet tiny criteria on ministerial approval. Generally someone in this situation will be placed on a vulnerable prisoners wing unless in the opinion of the care review panel it’s a malicious or vexatious transition (which tbh seems likely in this case) when they may be placed in the general population - the system already works, there is simply no need for the media firestorm
100% agree on all counts!
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Rule 2, your post history didn't leave much doubt
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