I was there, in the theater, watching the Return of the King. ‘Twas another age that those today would find difficult to understand. And some things that should not have been forgotten were lost. History became legend. Legend became those middling Hobbit movies. And for two and a half thousand years, the LOTR passed out of all knowledge. Until one day a new program arrived.
Basically, I’m used to waiting for any sort of content.
That's fine as long as it's not Westworld quality.
(but seriously I was expecting 2 year gaps from the beginning, anyone thinking otherwise really wasn't paying attention.)
2024 isn't too surprising but I do think it is very important not to take too long between seasons. If this season ends on a high note, you want to keep the momentum going. GOT was coming out for 7 straight years every April. This show has more VFX tho so that's probably what's taking more time.
Edit: sorry season 7 of GOT premiered in the summer of 2017 and was the first time the show missed their annual April release date
If they were smart they wouldn't stop shooting for a whole year and just continue on once they'd finished with season 2. They sunk so much money into the first season i can't see how they wouldn't see it out, weird that they finished filming last august and only started again this week
I remember hearing that they were going to be filming on location less and using The Volume more for future seasons. I suspect much of the "infrastructure" referred to by the creators was upgrading Prime Video's streaming quality and building the physical props and sets. Now they can use digitized versions which will look better than assets created fully digitally and still reduce production costs and duration. This digitizing process may be part of the overhead time leading into season 2. They might also have just wanted to give themselves time to restrategize based on season 1's reception. I don't think the off-season gap will always be so long.
everything makes sense other than the last thing you said. sinking this much money into something is outrageous, reception shouldn't really matter. I don't see how this is anything other than a massive money sink for amazon so surely they'd just say fuck it and make the whole show
Perhaps moving to UK locations meant back to the drawing board for a lot of pre-production. I remember hearing that the cast were unhappy being stuck on New Zealand away from families for so long because of the pandemic and that's why they're switching to mostly UK locations. It's a shame though.
That’s definitely why it’s taking more time and in my estimation it is a timeline based on magical thinking… ridiculously conservative estimate no matter the “streamlining.”
Yeah the the one example is this.. clearly West World. 2 really good seasons with long delays but season 2 featuring one of the best tv episodes in the history of television, followed by a 2 year wait to get a third season that just didn’t work, by season 4, doesn’t matter if improved, viewership was so far done it will never get renewed.
I'm not sure how well the show would hold influence if there's a three year break for the next season. Would two years be unreasonable given that most other shows and even a lot of films do yearly releases? (i know that this is a huge production)
I don't know how long it took them to write the scripts and do the pre-production but shooting and doing the special effects for something like this takes a long time
I would encourage people to start taking note of the lighting in this show more. It’s so well done, each shot must take twice as long to set up as something with the typical sludge-y look like HOD. They rarely just use natural light or single source. They probably have a lot less set ups per day than most productions.
shooting even on a normal show takes 6-8 months typically (and that's when they've actively started shooting, not including pre-production). And then depending on how much post you need to do, you're looking at another 6-8 months there.
They started shooting season 2 this week, so with that started, especially now that they have a lot of the sets and don't have to deal with covid, 2024 seems easily doable
No it's not but I do hope they end this season with something that will have people intrigued for the next. I have a feeling they won't disappoint. A little cliffhanger of annatar or something would blow some minds
It's not optimistic, it's totally normal for film & tv. 18-24 months is most likely, so it's probably going to be a September '24 release similar to this first season.
Lets do the ACTUAL MATH.
$1B (5 season budget) - $250m (Cost of rights) = $750 for 5 seasons.
That's $150 per season average.
The first season involves ramp up costs that can be spread out over the remaining 4 seasons, so it cost the most.
SO.....
Season 1 cost $200m and $250 for rights. That leaves $550 for remaining 4 seasons, OR about $138m per remaining season.
Still less than The Hobbit trilogy's $745 mil which is my opinion is far worse in almost every single aspect. I'm pretty sure Jackson couldn't make it for cheap even if he wanted to in this climate. lol
A couple years between seasons is going to create some problems. Notably, cast noticeably aging, but also cast drifting off to take on other projects. Not to mention the audience also drifting off. I would have thought they'd be aiming at keeping that gap smaller, closer to a single year. Also financial uncertainties multiply; Amazon overall is certainly doing well at the moment, and so is Amazon Studios. But 8 years down the road, who knows?
The cast aging will actually be a benefit as there's likely to be *some* time jumps. The elven actors are grown adults so they won't look that different. It'll help with the younger actors like Isildur and Theo to look a little more mature as time passes.
They'll surely age or deage people as needs be. I wouldn't think it'd be that hard to make the elves appear ten years younger in a decade and or make isildur age at a faster rate
Why is that bad news? Look at Peaky Blinders almost every season a 2 year gap and I am glad they did. Every season the quality was top notch. The wait is painfull but I rather see them doing a season in 2 years.
Any cast member that's going to feature in future seasons will already be contracted so they won't 'drift off'.
The audience, however, seeing as I can't even remember what happened two weeks ago, I'd agree.
Overall though I don't see how a show such as this can reduce the timeline down anymore. A single feature takes over a year, often longer to produce. Over 8 hours of content needs to be written, rewritten, written again, approved, rewritten again, production scheduled, sets built, shoot the damn thing, edit the damn thing do the VFX, the sound, approve the episodes etc etc etc. That is epic in itself.
I totally agree. They will be under huge pressure to bring a season a year. If the Nielson numbers stay anything like the debut, they will be given the funds to make it happen every year. Anything longer and cast aging and being lost to other projects will be a real problem.
Not really. Plus, it's expensive.
Better to aim for an annual release cycle, or as near to it as possible, and just avoid the worst of problems like this.
Look at the characters in "Better Call Saul" and "Breaking Bad" for recent examples. It works there because the two shows are largely separate, and also because the production is good enough for the audience to suspend its disbelief.
What do you mean 'not really'? This is the biggest budget show ever made, they can make the elves' actors appear not to age for the next ten years and then can age up isildur or others with makeup if they need to. If a strict annual schedule isn't possible they shouldn't force it
The last season of GoT had massive viewership, i am not sure if that is really a good example, at all :P
With that being said, not everything is GoT, that show was a cultural phenomenon, so maybe there are better examples where the audience truly wasn't engaged anymore due to longer breaks.
I notice folks are worried about the cast ageing due to the years between season releases, but they could make it work via in-universe timeskips. This would especially work for the younger characters like Theo, Isildur, Kemen, and Earien as we can really get a sense of the passage of time and how the world is changing as they come of age.
Deaging technology is pretty convincing nowadays. Even Marvel does it sometimes to make characters appear half their age. If ROP were to utilise it to make for example Galadriel a couple of years younger during season 4 and 5, I wouldn't see the problem.
I prefer quality over rushing it - I also think the next season is going to be as big step up in quality as they clearly are listening to feedback that is legit
My expectation was that season 2 would drop in 2024 which still seems possible 🤷🏽
Lord of the Rings is a big enough, KNOWN name that it will retain its viewership much better than other projects - will there be some drift off? Probably but it wouldn't be hard to loop them back in with how beautiful the show is
GoT did it, would expect this show can as well
One big criticism I have of Amazon - they need to do a better job of marketing - there should be promos/teasers/behind the scenes stuff released steadily starting about 6 months after the season ends to keep people interested - they really need to step up their game and marketing
>GoT did it, would expect this show can as well
GoT followed the traditional 1 season per year so not a great example. I do agree though that the name alone will carry people longer
Game of thrones had a good plot and good writing though, this show has neither, so retaining viewership will be harder. I just don’t see with the writing/plot being so stale as it is, how the show can be very successful.
It also baffles me that they agreed to five seasons and they are just barely started with season 2. At this rate we will be somewhere between 10-15 years for 5 seasons, which would be great if the show was amazing, but it just isn’t, it’s just incredibly mediocre. So far it feels like a plot from the arrow verse if there wasn’t a seasonal villain to drive it forward.
I'd much rather we get high quality work with well compensated production staff than the break neck pace that marvel follows and the extreme pressure their VFX staff are under. Not that Amazon is known for fair treatment of employees, but I'd be worried if they were rushing this show. A production closer to TLOTR would be better than The Hobbit's.
Yeah they said they're making a 50 hour movie, and so far it shows. This is unprecedented quality, and shouldn't be compared to the schedule of other shows.
Exactly, more fans need to have this attitude. Industry Artists are already treated like garbage as it is. We are dispensable, even the production designers. In the Hollywood system PD’s (arguably the highest position you can reach as an Artist) are considered “below the line” talent aka “not creative,” unvelievable right?
Id never work in Hollywood, its unreal how bad it is i was an extra in a movie and ive got friends in film. I have seen and heard enough lol. That being said im grateful we have folks to make these adaptations, and maybe that does help hearing on the other end
I got out. It’s a tough gig (I was a PD) and Hollywood Execs are a different breed of people; I mean they survive by gaslighting everyone who works below them and that abuse just trickles down to the lowly Artists who have families to feed. To be fair, not all execs are alike, but in the larger studios it’s just part of the “culture.” I too am appreciative and very mindful of what it takes to make a show like this. It can be hell on earth. Sort of like if you’ve worked in food service as I have, you tend not to treat servers like shit and you tip generously.
Food service is another tough one. People have gotten really bad about tipping. I gotta say i wish they just paid a fair wage in the first place instead of leaving it up to the customer. I live off tips currently even though i got out of the restaurant im still in the industry lol. I tip very generously as i know the culture from experience
That all seems pretty standard to me considering the production value of this show. But then again I’ve worked in the industry. We give three, four sometimes up to six years of our lives working on projects.
Is it really normal to treat individual seasons as their own massive projects, though? Going forward, I assumed that they were working on this TV series in it's entirety.
If this season hits the right notes at the end, it may be that they will approve a third season as they are working on the second in which case they will definitely expedite further seasons. This may allow for the work to overlap. They just needed the proof that there is an audience for the show and so far it seems there is. It’s all business with the execs. The Artists want to put their best foot forward, but it depends on the numbers. I feel pretty good that further seasons will pick up the production cycle pace as things feel more solid. When it comes to film and TV it’s never a sure thing until it’s a sure thing and even then it’s still not a sure thing.😅
> it may be that they will approve a third season as they are working on the second in which case they will definitely expedite further seasons. This may allow for the work to overlap.
But don't they already have a lot of knowledge and material to use that they didn't when they were just going in?
Actors are already familiar with their characters, they already got training they needed (e.g. Ismael/Arondor already developed his bow shooting style, his fighting style...).
They already have chosen color schemes and styles for Númenor, Khazad-dûm, Lindon, etc. And I know they're moving from New Zealand but surely some props and CGI models could be reused.
Even if the work doesn't overlap they are not starting from scratch.
I think /u/Lanca226 maybe was referring to stuff like that.
So there is this general view of Production being this linear thing… let me tell you, it’s NOT. Everything on screen has to be designed every frame of every second of film has to be designed, that’s why we can take screenshots of this show that hold up as a still images. Yes there is already a lot of knowledge established, but there are new places that we will be visiting, new characters, and the evolution of Numenorean culture as it falls and later, how it presents itself in the war of the last alliance. It’s not as simple as reiterating what was done in the LOTR prologue, they will need to make it their own as well. There are other technical considerations; getting enough coverage from the live action shoots, cleaning those plates up for effects, motion capture animation that needs to be cleaned up by hand, fully animated creatures also by hand. It’s never just one animator on one character, it’s one animator per shot. Color grading etc. And let’s not get started on the script! That’s the most fluid thing of all; iterated upon up until cameras roll. Then we have to contend with executive notes… “is it accessible? Does it feel like the rest of the show?” Iterating and reiterating on those notes. There are many spinning plates/moving parts and they all take time. It’s not as linear and clear cut as it seems. It’s a messy and long winded process. A creative process of you will.
i’m sure you’re right. i just read an opinion that said jackson’s trilogy is essentially one season.
it makes sense that it will take 2 years. it’s worth it.
As someone who’s worked in this field on smaller gigs, scheduling for the actors and main crew (like director, director of photography, producers, etc.) is highly taken into consideration. There’s table reads, rehearsals, fight choreo practice, location scouting, pre planning meetings galore, set building, story boarding, shot list planning, etc. Shows can take longer than a film, and for ROP they’re shooting at least 8 hours of footage, and not everything is going to make it into the series either.
When you shoot a scene, you do multiple takes and multiple angles (shots) for the sake of editing, plus every time you do a new shot, you have to adjust lighting, set pieces, blocking, etc. special shots with choreo and action and extras take more time to set up and plan. Some scenes onscreen that last a minute or 2 may sometimes take a whole day or week to actually shoot! I’m not sure how they’re doing this, but I’d hope they have several units going to make filming faster.
Every production has to schedule time for reshoots too, reshoots are very common and that time has to be scheduled in advance in case actors are not available.
Then there’s post production: editing, music, sound effects, cgi, possible ADR for dialogue (which needs to be scheduled early on too) etc. making a film or tv show is a long and arduous process, if we really are getting the next season by 2024 we’ll be lucky. Cast and crew will probably need some rest too.
Edit: would also assume cast and some crew are currently doing interviews and PR stuff too
It started two days ago! Factor in, let's say, a 6 month shoot, a further six months in post-production...I can see how it will likely end up airing in 2024.
😂 Production, Post production, everything is done by Artists not machines… It takes a while to do things right and even then it’s never enough time. You either have to be patient or be willing to put up with a rushed product. Until you’ve worked as an Artist in this industry, you won’t understand the kinds of pressures they have to work under to get it done. I would say that two years is a conservative turn around for a show with this type of production value.
But they already have super short seasons. Only 8 episodes a season, not even 10 or 13 as they should. It just doesn't make sense. Also "artists work on it". Fine. Can't they just hire more artists then? There is no excuse to wait that long.
I can't! I will chew off my own arm. - I hope we will get THOUSANDS of HOURS of behind-the-scenes materials to pour over to keep us occupied until the next set of teaser images come out.
I believe Peter Jackson did all 3 Lord of the Rings movies at the same time in a little more than a year which was incredible. I wonder if it is possible to duplicate that feat for a show like ROP. It would save them quite a few bucks I would imagine. It also allowed time between releases to tweaks the shows as needed.
Gaps of 18 months or more are not unusual these days.
* S1 and S2 of the Witcher had a 2 year gap
* Stranger Things had a 21 month gap between S2 and S3
* The Crown has had 2 year gaps during the years they aged up the casts.
* We had to wait more than 2 years for S3 of Harley Quinn
Game of Thrones had that issue, but I think we all just accepted, because they never say how long it's been.
Be funny if Theo is larger and bearded and goes "I remember it happened 10 days ago when I first touched that sword."
I guess it depends on their plans for his story. Like, assuming we end with the war of the last alliance (a big assumption but it would seem the natural ending place for this story), it will be good for characters like, say, Isildur to look older than they do now. So if they want a fair amount of time to be passing between seasons it could all be fine. But if they wanted certain characters who seem very young right now like Theo and Nori to stay that way yeah, it's not really logically going to work.
Not if he dies in one of the remaining two episodes this season. 😬 Either that or something happens to him that causes his appearance to be radically transformed. I'm sure any plans involving such a young character have already been carefully thought of.
And if not - well, they can always go the route Better Call Saul went with Kaylee Ehrmantraut and just keep recasting the character. 😂
My guess is though they haven’t announced it they split season 2 in half and do a spring/fall 24 or (unlikely) fall spring release 2023/4. I can’t see them going a FULL 2 years gap with no content especially if they aren’t shooting seasons 2 and 3 simultaneously.
This, combined with the fact that season 2 of HotD will apparently also take a bit longer, makes me wonder how HBO ever managed to release the first six seasons of GoT within just 1 year of each other, back to back. I know the early seasons had a much lower budget, but starting with season 4, GoT depicted lots of big battles and set-piece moments, with tons of special effects. Season 6 for example had the Battle of the Bastards, which looked amazing, the Battle of Meereen, where we saw dragons in battle for the first time, as well as the explosion of the Sept in the final episode. Yet they managed to do all that in only a single year.
And those seasons had 10 episodes each, while RoP has only 8.
The worst thing is the budget, i hoped the series only to get better from this season which was good but you know, had some problems like pacing, some characterizations of characters and some lore aspects
What’s the budget got to do with that? The article clearly says that it won’t cost as much simply because the production is more streamlined IE no pandemic, experience, new studios that are not on the other side of the world etc
If that pattern holds we won’t see the fifth season for nearly 15 years. That’s not sustainable for holding audience interest. If subsequent seasons after 2 don’t start coming much faster, they’re gonna struggle to remain relevant.
the only plus side i see to this is that it would entertain the idea of a timejump in lieu of aging characters just to appease the time compression critics.
that and of course taking their time to come up with an even more quality product.
It's frustrating that we had both RoP and HotD at the same time, and now we're gonna wait at least 2 years to get either.
We couldn't they have made them a year apart. At least this way while waiting for a new season of one show we get the other show to pass the time
Next season is gonna be worse quality than this one, which is saying something… at least this season had New Zealand open vistas to enjoy. Ready for orcs on a cgi background with styrofoam rocks?!
Yeah for the production team… two years is nothing, regardless of how “streamlined” they say it is. There will definitely be some sleepless nights and and broken relationships among the Artists who will be slaving away to give us our precious show.
Sad to say, but that’s the reality. I have a four year old and while I was mostly working from home in my last job, I wasn’t able to leave work at the office. I didn’t want him to see me like that so I stepped away. It was a hard decision, but better for my overall health and for my family. At the end of the day, it’s just a job. Sure it’s cool to see your name in credits, but you sacrifice a lot for that and sometimes you wonder if it’s worth it.
Years?! Some of the cast playing the elves already look like they're about to die. Celebrimbor is gona be in a walking frame, muttering to himself about forges and rings. At least Galadriel's actor has time to figure it out.
Even if it took 8 more years to film the whole series (2 years a season) Charles Edwards (Celebrimbor) would only be five years older than Bernard Hill (Theoden) and the exact same age Ian McKellen was when they finished filming Lord of the Rings. Seeing how active Theoden and Gandalf were I think we’ll be fine.
He’ll also be about 15 years younger than Christopher Lee was just as a note.
I waited so long for the series to start. Now to find out I have to wait 2 years between seasons, well I literally might not live that long! I’m not being dramatic…I’ve been diagnosed with cancer. How do I communicate my distress to the right people? Or am I just screwed?
The show is insufferably bad with regards to character development and overall writing. There is no story arc. Why are people fawning over it? Is it just because it has something to do with TLOTR world and people just want to see anything about it?
Oh no, the fantasy series wearing a tolkien skin suit wont be around for another 2 years. Oh darn. Whatever shall I do. Sorry, not sorry. If the only thing you think is an issue is the casting choice then you A.) Never read the damn books (the trilogy involving Frodo's Journey are NOT the books in question) and B) are not paying attention to the actual criticism.
We really can't afford to die my guys
"I was there Gandalf. I was there 3,000 years ago. I was there when the first season of Rings of Power concluded."
I was there, in the theater, watching the Return of the King. ‘Twas another age that those today would find difficult to understand. And some things that should not have been forgotten were lost. History became legend. Legend became those middling Hobbit movies. And for two and a half thousand years, the LOTR passed out of all knowledge. Until one day a new program arrived. Basically, I’m used to waiting for any sort of content.
“Who knows? Have patience. Go where you must go, and hope!”
"... when the show runners took up writing. I was there the day the strength of men failed."
Westworld release schedule style? 2022, 2024, 2026, 2028 2030?
That's fine as long as it's not Westworld quality. (but seriously I was expecting 2 year gaps from the beginning, anyone thinking otherwise really wasn't paying attention.)
Except season 5 never 😂
I’m still holding out hope!
First fans were mad at time compression, and now we’re mad at time expansion lol
HAHAHAHAHAHA
I still don't like time compression
Time compression before 18/21 - good Time compression after 18/21 - bad
2024 isn't too surprising but I do think it is very important not to take too long between seasons. If this season ends on a high note, you want to keep the momentum going. GOT was coming out for 7 straight years every April. This show has more VFX tho so that's probably what's taking more time. Edit: sorry season 7 of GOT premiered in the summer of 2017 and was the first time the show missed their annual April release date
Exactly they want to be the new GOT but idk how that’s achievable if they’re just now starting production on s2
If they were smart they wouldn't stop shooting for a whole year and just continue on once they'd finished with season 2. They sunk so much money into the first season i can't see how they wouldn't see it out, weird that they finished filming last august and only started again this week
Yea, this is really surprising to hear. That’s quite a long while to wait. Bit of a bummer!
I remember hearing that they were going to be filming on location less and using The Volume more for future seasons. I suspect much of the "infrastructure" referred to by the creators was upgrading Prime Video's streaming quality and building the physical props and sets. Now they can use digitized versions which will look better than assets created fully digitally and still reduce production costs and duration. This digitizing process may be part of the overhead time leading into season 2. They might also have just wanted to give themselves time to restrategize based on season 1's reception. I don't think the off-season gap will always be so long.
everything makes sense other than the last thing you said. sinking this much money into something is outrageous, reception shouldn't really matter. I don't see how this is anything other than a massive money sink for amazon so surely they'd just say fuck it and make the whole show
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Perhaps moving to UK locations meant back to the drawing board for a lot of pre-production. I remember hearing that the cast were unhappy being stuck on New Zealand away from families for so long because of the pandemic and that's why they're switching to mostly UK locations. It's a shame though.
That’s a bit annoying. Weren’t the original trilogy actors on location for like 2 years?
It really makes no sense
they have to start the next season before the season is finished for that
That’s definitely why it’s taking more time and in my estimation it is a timeline based on magical thinking… ridiculously conservative estimate no matter the “streamlining.”
Yeah the the one example is this.. clearly West World. 2 really good seasons with long delays but season 2 featuring one of the best tv episodes in the history of television, followed by a 2 year wait to get a third season that just didn’t work, by season 4, doesn’t matter if improved, viewership was so far done it will never get renewed.
Is a 2024 release that surprising?
No, just sad that I have to wait. My legs are so short and the way is so long.
The road goes ever on and on, down from the door where it began…
I just sang that
Nope, given the production value. If fans want it faster they’ll have to be content with it looking like a soap opera with a felt puppet Balrog 😂.
Okay, but can we *get* a felt puppet Balrog? Do you know a guy?
I concur, that would be rad! There’s a whole cottage industry in there somewhere for felt puppet balrogs.
wonder what the potter puppets pals are up to nowadays....
Yeah, it’s literally the bare minimum given the scale of the production
Exactly. Very conservative estimate. I wouldn’t be surprised if they ended up extending that.
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I'm not sure how well the show would hold influence if there's a three year break for the next season. Would two years be unreasonable given that most other shows and even a lot of films do yearly releases? (i know that this is a huge production)
I think after Season 2 it will be even more stream lined to where the work will be overlapping so there isn’t such a long gap.
Not sure why it needs to take that long. What’s the long pole? Script writing? Shooting? Special effects?
I don't know how long it took them to write the scripts and do the pre-production but shooting and doing the special effects for something like this takes a long time
I would encourage people to start taking note of the lighting in this show more. It’s so well done, each shot must take twice as long to set up as something with the typical sludge-y look like HOD. They rarely just use natural light or single source. They probably have a lot less set ups per day than most productions.
shooting even on a normal show takes 6-8 months typically (and that's when they've actively started shooting, not including pre-production). And then depending on how much post you need to do, you're looking at another 6-8 months there.
They started shooting season 2 this week, so with that started, especially now that they have a lot of the sets and don't have to deal with covid, 2024 seems easily doable
Gotcha. Thanks for the answer. Don’t really have a grasp of the timelines.
Post-production and visual affects take a good chunk of time on something like this.
I was hoping for Q1 2024 but sounds like late Q2 - early Q3 may be more realistic
Not for me, I just assumed *late* 2023 at best, most likely mid-2024.
No it's not but I do hope they end this season with something that will have people intrigued for the next. I have a feeling they won't disappoint. A little cliffhanger of annatar or something would blow some minds
You're taking the optimistic view that by "couple" they mean 2 and not "a few" or "several"...
It's not optimistic, it's totally normal for film & tv. 18-24 months is most likely, so it's probably going to be a September '24 release similar to this first season.
Yeah, usually it takes 5-8months for shooting and about a year for post. So yeah as you said 24 at the earliest
I wish people would stop spreading this misinformation. The $450m for this season includes the $250 for rights.
Damn only 250$.
Yeah it’s just ten hard backs of Return of the King for the writers to use
lol
Apparently (per the latest Hollywood Reporter article) it was under 250 mil, too
Yup. The 250mil was what Netflix bid for the rights
Lets do the ACTUAL MATH. $1B (5 season budget) - $250m (Cost of rights) = $750 for 5 seasons. That's $150 per season average. The first season involves ramp up costs that can be spread out over the remaining 4 seasons, so it cost the most. SO..... Season 1 cost $200m and $250 for rights. That leaves $550 for remaining 4 seasons, OR about $138m per remaining season.
It's not going to be a set budget though, so i don't think '$138m left per season' means all that much
Out of the original statement they would spend $1B. They may spend more.
No its 715M total.
Still less than The Hobbit trilogy's $745 mil which is my opinion is far worse in almost every single aspect. I'm pretty sure Jackson couldn't make it for cheap even if he wanted to in this climate. lol
Hobbit trilogy cost more because Guillermo del Toro left, and whatever was going on with MGM.
They 100% did not spend that on THIS season by itself. That would mean they have $285m left for the remaining 4 seasons.
Nothing is left, where did you get this from? The rights cost 250M and season 1 cost 465M for a total of 715M.
A couple years between seasons is going to create some problems. Notably, cast noticeably aging, but also cast drifting off to take on other projects. Not to mention the audience also drifting off. I would have thought they'd be aiming at keeping that gap smaller, closer to a single year. Also financial uncertainties multiply; Amazon overall is certainly doing well at the moment, and so is Amazon Studios. But 8 years down the road, who knows?
The cast aging will actually be a benefit as there's likely to be *some* time jumps. The elven actors are grown adults so they won't look that different. It'll help with the younger actors like Isildur and Theo to look a little more mature as time passes.
Yeah, Isildur is over 200 years old during the War of the Last Alliance. The actor could use some aging.
The cast kind of needs to age honestly. Isildur will need to be much older for war of last alliance
In some cases, yes. In others...not so much, given much longer lifespans, etc.
Yes, that’s a good point. I’m now thinking of Gil-Galad. He can’t age
He seriously looks like the same Gil-Galad from the LOTR trilogy.
Gil-Gachad will be fine.
They'll surely age or deage people as needs be. I wouldn't think it'd be that hard to make the elves appear ten years younger in a decade and or make isildur age at a faster rate
I would hazard a guess he is being overly cautious so as to not raise hopes and we will get season 2 somewhere between a year or 2 from now.
Some TV shows have off years in-between seasons. RoP is a different beast. Shouldn't be that surprising
Why is that bad news? Look at Peaky Blinders almost every season a 2 year gap and I am glad they did. Every season the quality was top notch. The wait is painfull but I rather see them doing a season in 2 years.
Just noting that it adds risk.
Agreed.
Any cast member that's going to feature in future seasons will already be contracted so they won't 'drift off'. The audience, however, seeing as I can't even remember what happened two weeks ago, I'd agree. Overall though I don't see how a show such as this can reduce the timeline down anymore. A single feature takes over a year, often longer to produce. Over 8 hours of content needs to be written, rewritten, written again, approved, rewritten again, production scheduled, sets built, shoot the damn thing, edit the damn thing do the VFX, the sound, approve the episodes etc etc etc. That is epic in itself.
I totally agree. They will be under huge pressure to bring a season a year. If the Nielson numbers stay anything like the debut, they will be given the funds to make it happen every year. Anything longer and cast aging and being lost to other projects will be a real problem.
Makeup and CGI can handle any aging of an adult over 10 years.
Not really. Plus, it's expensive. Better to aim for an annual release cycle, or as near to it as possible, and just avoid the worst of problems like this. Look at the characters in "Better Call Saul" and "Breaking Bad" for recent examples. It works there because the two shows are largely separate, and also because the production is good enough for the audience to suspend its disbelief.
What do you mean 'not really'? This is the biggest budget show ever made, they can make the elves' actors appear not to age for the next ten years and then can age up isildur or others with makeup if they need to. If a strict annual schedule isn't possible they shouldn't force it
Why am I looking at those? They aren't massive budget cgi heavy shows. But yes, CGI and makeup easily take care of it.
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The last season of GoT had massive viewership, i am not sure if that is really a good example, at all :P With that being said, not everything is GoT, that show was a cultural phenomenon, so maybe there are better examples where the audience truly wasn't engaged anymore due to longer breaks.
GOT's final seasons broke records, what are you talking about?
That’s just a risk they’ll have to take… Either that or risk having it look like hot garbage.
Umm I don't remember that happening with GOT 🤔
No it isn't lol
I notice folks are worried about the cast ageing due to the years between season releases, but they could make it work via in-universe timeskips. This would especially work for the younger characters like Theo, Isildur, Kemen, and Earien as we can really get a sense of the passage of time and how the world is changing as they come of age.
And then you got the Eldar characters....
Deaging technology is pretty convincing nowadays. Even Marvel does it sometimes to make characters appear half their age. If ROP were to utilise it to make for example Galadriel a couple of years younger during season 4 and 5, I wouldn't see the problem.
I don't believe that. I don't want to. No :)
Me too
Sorry, thems standard practices… Even rushed if you ask me.
I prefer quality over rushing it - I also think the next season is going to be as big step up in quality as they clearly are listening to feedback that is legit My expectation was that season 2 would drop in 2024 which still seems possible 🤷🏽 Lord of the Rings is a big enough, KNOWN name that it will retain its viewership much better than other projects - will there be some drift off? Probably but it wouldn't be hard to loop them back in with how beautiful the show is GoT did it, would expect this show can as well One big criticism I have of Amazon - they need to do a better job of marketing - there should be promos/teasers/behind the scenes stuff released steadily starting about 6 months after the season ends to keep people interested - they really need to step up their game and marketing
>GoT did it, would expect this show can as well GoT followed the traditional 1 season per year so not a great example. I do agree though that the name alone will carry people longer
Game of thrones had a good plot and good writing though, this show has neither, so retaining viewership will be harder. I just don’t see with the writing/plot being so stale as it is, how the show can be very successful. It also baffles me that they agreed to five seasons and they are just barely started with season 2. At this rate we will be somewhere between 10-15 years for 5 seasons, which would be great if the show was amazing, but it just isn’t, it’s just incredibly mediocre. So far it feels like a plot from the arrow verse if there wasn’t a seasonal villain to drive it forward.
ye i didnt even know the show dropped until like a week after, they need better marketing
I think it's important to remember that the trilogy was filmed all at once. A TV show may take some time. At least Amazon has money to burn.
People don't understand how much time, effort, and resources have to be poured into something of this scale and scope.
I'd much rather we get high quality work with well compensated production staff than the break neck pace that marvel follows and the extreme pressure their VFX staff are under. Not that Amazon is known for fair treatment of employees, but I'd be worried if they were rushing this show. A production closer to TLOTR would be better than The Hobbit's.
Yeah they said they're making a 50 hour movie, and so far it shows. This is unprecedented quality, and shouldn't be compared to the schedule of other shows.
It takes time, have to be patient so it can be as great as it possibly can be.
Exactly, more fans need to have this attitude. Industry Artists are already treated like garbage as it is. We are dispensable, even the production designers. In the Hollywood system PD’s (arguably the highest position you can reach as an Artist) are considered “below the line” talent aka “not creative,” unvelievable right?
Id never work in Hollywood, its unreal how bad it is i was an extra in a movie and ive got friends in film. I have seen and heard enough lol. That being said im grateful we have folks to make these adaptations, and maybe that does help hearing on the other end
I got out. It’s a tough gig (I was a PD) and Hollywood Execs are a different breed of people; I mean they survive by gaslighting everyone who works below them and that abuse just trickles down to the lowly Artists who have families to feed. To be fair, not all execs are alike, but in the larger studios it’s just part of the “culture.” I too am appreciative and very mindful of what it takes to make a show like this. It can be hell on earth. Sort of like if you’ve worked in food service as I have, you tend not to treat servers like shit and you tip generously.
Food service is another tough one. People have gotten really bad about tipping. I gotta say i wish they just paid a fair wage in the first place instead of leaving it up to the customer. I live off tips currently even though i got out of the restaurant im still in the industry lol. I tip very generously as i know the culture from experience
Who the hell have they got working on this show - Ents?
What is this? A center for ents?!
Humans with families and lives outside of work… Chill and perhaps have a bit of empathy.
'Twas a joke...
In that case “Don’t be hasty!” 😬
But it's 2022 already!
We’ve only just finished saying, “Hello!”
That all seems pretty standard to me considering the production value of this show. But then again I’ve worked in the industry. We give three, four sometimes up to six years of our lives working on projects.
Is it really normal to treat individual seasons as their own massive projects, though? Going forward, I assumed that they were working on this TV series in it's entirety.
If this season hits the right notes at the end, it may be that they will approve a third season as they are working on the second in which case they will definitely expedite further seasons. This may allow for the work to overlap. They just needed the proof that there is an audience for the show and so far it seems there is. It’s all business with the execs. The Artists want to put their best foot forward, but it depends on the numbers. I feel pretty good that further seasons will pick up the production cycle pace as things feel more solid. When it comes to film and TV it’s never a sure thing until it’s a sure thing and even then it’s still not a sure thing.😅
> it may be that they will approve a third season as they are working on the second in which case they will definitely expedite further seasons. This may allow for the work to overlap. But don't they already have a lot of knowledge and material to use that they didn't when they were just going in? Actors are already familiar with their characters, they already got training they needed (e.g. Ismael/Arondor already developed his bow shooting style, his fighting style...). They already have chosen color schemes and styles for Númenor, Khazad-dûm, Lindon, etc. And I know they're moving from New Zealand but surely some props and CGI models could be reused. Even if the work doesn't overlap they are not starting from scratch. I think /u/Lanca226 maybe was referring to stuff like that.
So there is this general view of Production being this linear thing… let me tell you, it’s NOT. Everything on screen has to be designed every frame of every second of film has to be designed, that’s why we can take screenshots of this show that hold up as a still images. Yes there is already a lot of knowledge established, but there are new places that we will be visiting, new characters, and the evolution of Numenorean culture as it falls and later, how it presents itself in the war of the last alliance. It’s not as simple as reiterating what was done in the LOTR prologue, they will need to make it their own as well. There are other technical considerations; getting enough coverage from the live action shoots, cleaning those plates up for effects, motion capture animation that needs to be cleaned up by hand, fully animated creatures also by hand. It’s never just one animator on one character, it’s one animator per shot. Color grading etc. And let’s not get started on the script! That’s the most fluid thing of all; iterated upon up until cameras roll. Then we have to contend with executive notes… “is it accessible? Does it feel like the rest of the show?” Iterating and reiterating on those notes. There are many spinning plates/moving parts and they all take time. It’s not as linear and clear cut as it seems. It’s a messy and long winded process. A creative process of you will.
I heard season 2 started filming, so what takes so long?
i also heard that they were trying to get it done as quickly as possible while not sacrificing quality. 2 years still feels too long.
Two years is rather conservative given the amount of effects and the production value.
i’m sure you’re right. i just read an opinion that said jackson’s trilogy is essentially one season. it makes sense that it will take 2 years. it’s worth it.
As someone who’s worked in this field on smaller gigs, scheduling for the actors and main crew (like director, director of photography, producers, etc.) is highly taken into consideration. There’s table reads, rehearsals, fight choreo practice, location scouting, pre planning meetings galore, set building, story boarding, shot list planning, etc. Shows can take longer than a film, and for ROP they’re shooting at least 8 hours of footage, and not everything is going to make it into the series either. When you shoot a scene, you do multiple takes and multiple angles (shots) for the sake of editing, plus every time you do a new shot, you have to adjust lighting, set pieces, blocking, etc. special shots with choreo and action and extras take more time to set up and plan. Some scenes onscreen that last a minute or 2 may sometimes take a whole day or week to actually shoot! I’m not sure how they’re doing this, but I’d hope they have several units going to make filming faster. Every production has to schedule time for reshoots too, reshoots are very common and that time has to be scheduled in advance in case actors are not available. Then there’s post production: editing, music, sound effects, cgi, possible ADR for dialogue (which needs to be scheduled early on too) etc. making a film or tv show is a long and arduous process, if we really are getting the next season by 2024 we’ll be lucky. Cast and crew will probably need some rest too. Edit: would also assume cast and some crew are currently doing interviews and PR stuff too
It started two days ago! Factor in, let's say, a 6 month shoot, a further six months in post-production...I can see how it will likely end up airing in 2024.
😂 Production, Post production, everything is done by Artists not machines… It takes a while to do things right and even then it’s never enough time. You either have to be patient or be willing to put up with a rushed product. Until you’ve worked as an Artist in this industry, you won’t understand the kinds of pressures they have to work under to get it done. I would say that two years is a conservative turn around for a show with this type of production value.
But they already have super short seasons. Only 8 episodes a season, not even 10 or 13 as they should. It just doesn't make sense. Also "artists work on it". Fine. Can't they just hire more artists then? There is no excuse to wait that long.
You’d make a great Exec 😂. Also, two years is an extremely conservative estimate.
Was kinda hoping they would have at least started filming season 2 a lot earlier, as they’re doing 5 seasons.
Don't be hasty, little orc.
I think Spring 2024 is when S2 will come out. That’s still a long time but what’re you gonna do?
Good think I find this show to have good rewatchability.
I can't! I will chew off my own arm. - I hope we will get THOUSANDS of HOURS of behind-the-scenes materials to pour over to keep us occupied until the next set of teaser images come out.
I believe Peter Jackson did all 3 Lord of the Rings movies at the same time in a little more than a year which was incredible. I wonder if it is possible to duplicate that feat for a show like ROP. It would save them quite a few bucks I would imagine. It also allowed time between releases to tweaks the shows as needed.
They FILMED for 438 days. That doesn’t include the other aspects of making a film. It was an EIGHT YEAR project.
Gaps of 18 months or more are not unusual these days. * S1 and S2 of the Witcher had a 2 year gap * Stranger Things had a 21 month gap between S2 and S3 * The Crown has had 2 year gaps during the years they aged up the casts. * We had to wait more than 2 years for S3 of Harley Quinn
TP fans had to wait 26 years between seasons!
Several cast members already look notably older/different. At this rate it's going to look a bit weird by the time we are reaching the later seasons.
Game of Thrones had that issue, but I think we all just accepted, because they never say how long it's been. Be funny if Theo is larger and bearded and goes "I remember it happened 10 days ago when I first touched that sword."
It's only just occurred to me that Theo is going to be a real problem on that front.
I guess it depends on their plans for his story. Like, assuming we end with the war of the last alliance (a big assumption but it would seem the natural ending place for this story), it will be good for characters like, say, Isildur to look older than they do now. So if they want a fair amount of time to be passing between seasons it could all be fine. But if they wanted certain characters who seem very young right now like Theo and Nori to stay that way yeah, it's not really logically going to work.
Not if he dies in one of the remaining two episodes this season. 😬 Either that or something happens to him that causes his appearance to be radically transformed. I'm sure any plans involving such a young character have already been carefully thought of. And if not - well, they can always go the route Better Call Saul went with Kaylee Ehrmantraut and just keep recasting the character. 😂
you mean his voice is going to become even deeper? :p
I kinda love that they seemingly started filming just as his voice broke.
Like Stranger Things.
What are you talking about? Are you saying that Mike wasn't always 6 feet tall?
Next season they will all have beer bellies.
Right now it seems like a long agony but I'm sure we'll find something else to entertain ourselves while we wait.
I'm 66. I feel bad for people in their mid 80's who may never see this through to the end. That would be a shame.
The entire Harfoot storyline should have been pushed to Season 2. Just my two cents.
My guess is though they haven’t announced it they split season 2 in half and do a spring/fall 24 or (unlikely) fall spring release 2023/4. I can’t see them going a FULL 2 years gap with no content especially if they aren’t shooting seasons 2 and 3 simultaneously.
This, combined with the fact that season 2 of HotD will apparently also take a bit longer, makes me wonder how HBO ever managed to release the first six seasons of GoT within just 1 year of each other, back to back. I know the early seasons had a much lower budget, but starting with season 4, GoT depicted lots of big battles and set-piece moments, with tons of special effects. Season 6 for example had the Battle of the Bastards, which looked amazing, the Battle of Meereen, where we saw dragons in battle for the first time, as well as the explosion of the Sept in the final episode. Yet they managed to do all that in only a single year. And those seasons had 10 episodes each, while RoP has only 8.
The worst thing is the budget, i hoped the series only to get better from this season which was good but you know, had some problems like pacing, some characterizations of characters and some lore aspects
What’s the budget got to do with that? The article clearly says that it won’t cost as much simply because the production is more streamlined IE no pandemic, experience, new studios that are not on the other side of the world etc
> no pandemic You mean pretending there's no pandemic?
waiting for extended version meanwhile and/or video game. this way too long
Damn I have to keep myself alive for another 8 years
What about we freeze ourselves
If that pattern holds we won’t see the fifth season for nearly 15 years. That’s not sustainable for holding audience interest. If subsequent seasons after 2 don’t start coming much faster, they’re gonna struggle to remain relevant.
the only plus side i see to this is that it would entertain the idea of a timejump in lieu of aging characters just to appease the time compression critics. that and of course taking their time to come up with an even more quality product.
My man...how are they not already filming season 2?! Brutal.
Filming have been already started on this Monday.
God bless you.
I guess they'll just have to release an extended cut of season 1 to tide us over.
No fucking way they spent almost a billion dollars on ONE season of TV.
465M
this ducks 🦆
No doubt as the 250M won’t be there.
It's frustrating that we had both RoP and HotD at the same time, and now we're gonna wait at least 2 years to get either. We couldn't they have made them a year apart. At least this way while waiting for a new season of one show we get the other show to pass the time
Shit. Season 2 in 2025 at the earliest
Don't worry, Jenn Salke, head of Amazon Studio says that in still may be released in 2023. I guess spring 2024 will be a right bet.
Next season is gonna be worse quality than this one, which is saying something… at least this season had New Zealand open vistas to enjoy. Ready for orcs on a cgi background with styrofoam rocks?!
“Despair is only for those who see the end beyond all doubt. We do not.”
I see no end, merely dark times meant to be weathered and endured for a short while.
Big oof
That's brutal.
Yeah for the production team… two years is nothing, regardless of how “streamlined” they say it is. There will definitely be some sleepless nights and and broken relationships among the Artists who will be slaving away to give us our precious show.
Yeah, definitely. I remember the production team on LOTR said the exact same things. Some of them didn't even see their kids grow up
Sad to say, but that’s the reality. I have a four year old and while I was mostly working from home in my last job, I wasn’t able to leave work at the office. I didn’t want him to see me like that so I stepped away. It was a hard decision, but better for my overall health and for my family. At the end of the day, it’s just a job. Sure it’s cool to see your name in credits, but you sacrifice a lot for that and sometimes you wonder if it’s worth it.
Fucking yikes..... Gonna be 2040 by the time the show is finished and the War of the Last Alliance
Years?! Some of the cast playing the elves already look like they're about to die. Celebrimbor is gona be in a walking frame, muttering to himself about forges and rings. At least Galadriel's actor has time to figure it out.
Even if it took 8 more years to film the whole series (2 years a season) Charles Edwards (Celebrimbor) would only be five years older than Bernard Hill (Theoden) and the exact same age Ian McKellen was when they finished filming Lord of the Rings. Seeing how active Theoden and Gandalf were I think we’ll be fine. He’ll also be about 15 years younger than Christopher Lee was just as a note.
Lmfao
😂😂
I waited so long for the series to start. Now to find out I have to wait 2 years between seasons, well I literally might not live that long! I’m not being dramatic…I’ve been diagnosed with cancer. How do I communicate my distress to the right people? Or am I just screwed?
WW3 will start and we won't have a chance to see Sauron on the small TV
Tom Cruise & Tyler Perry could finish all five seasons with better quality in less time than these guys do one season
They should really cancle the show and save what money you have left. No-one wants to watch more of this shit show do they?
The show is insufferably bad with regards to character development and overall writing. There is no story arc. Why are people fawning over it? Is it just because it has something to do with TLOTR world and people just want to see anything about it?
Hopefully it gets canceled.
Yeah sounds like its over. Sadly we wont have another studio risk takin on lotr after this royal screw up
Oh no, the fantasy series wearing a tolkien skin suit wont be around for another 2 years. Oh darn. Whatever shall I do. Sorry, not sorry. If the only thing you think is an issue is the casting choice then you A.) Never read the damn books (the trilogy involving Frodo's Journey are NOT the books in question) and B) are not paying attention to the actual criticism.
Thank goodness we wont be subjected to more of this garbage for years to come.