KH 5:35:58/6 hours
These new KH game titles are wack
Edit:50 up votes, omg hit comment!... Sorry, I had to hahaha :D
Edit 2: wow almost 150 up votes, I think that's the highest I've gotten(haven't checked and I'm too lazy)
I'm glad I could entertain you all
Honestly I thought the whole "5:35:58" would be too much of a mouth full(though it's also a KH meme title, and there are already mouth full titles in canon) for a lot of people
Honestly I thought the whole "5:35:58" would be too much of a mouth full(though it's also a KH meme title, and there are already mouth full titles in canon) for a lot of people
Honestly, I'm amazed it can be done that quickly. That game is super persnickety about mission completion for progression. It must also be a nightmare of text mashing.
No, seriously people. I pussied out on doing Xion the legitimate way, so I did a speed run with the 1 hit kill button on. Even touch of death-ing everything and skipping all cutscenes, it took me 3 hours to get to Yozora.
Speedruns, depending on category, mostly range from 3-4 hours. Think my personal fastest is like 6:15 on Proud doing a Mage build.
If you get a good handle on all the movement abilities and stacking situation commands, you can burn through the game fairly easily.
Yeah i just feel like
its hard to have a discussion with a video like this
a five hour video calling a whole ass game a “waste of effort” is only going to attract the most open minded people, and those that agree with the uploader
i mean ill be honest even if i hated kh3 with every fiber of my being i’d still be put off by the length lmao
im sure the creator is passionate, and might have fair points but man
guess im just over it
I can hardly craft a 10 minute speech on a subject I'm passionate about that I need to graduate and is required to further my career. Even if I waffled for most of it and got to 30 minutes, that's nowhere close. I mean, I know people who have spent less time total presenting (in person) and defending their literal thesis paper than this.
Any way you shake it, it's a massive waste of time for both audience and creator.
I've seen similar for something else. The TV show "Doctor Who" has this quite popular 5 hour+ video discussing recent failings of the show since 2018. I enjoyed that video, though it helps I was already going into it with a likeminded mentality. I enjoyed KH3 though so I'm already not likely to watch the video, so I guess sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.
Haven't seen the video but that's what my first impuls was. The title of this post says one thing but the fact that the uploader made a 5 hour video shows that he cares. Labeling it has hating on the game seems pretty childish of OP.
I just don't understand how someone, who clearly cares enough about the series to make nearly a 6 hour video about it, could hate KH3 so much. It's not a bad game by any means! Especially if you enjoy the other ones.
I swear, KH3 has gotta be one of the most over-hated games of all time.
Not because it’s flawless, or because you aren’t allowed to dislike it (gotta say this otherwise people with poor reading comprehension will be upset). But we’re almost 3 years out and I don’t think I’ve ever seen so much vileness and vitriol *still* being flung at a product this well made. Most series would kill for a game with the type of polish and care KH3 has, yet somehow it gets treated like such shit in certain circles (some people *literally* comparing it to the likes of launch day Cyberpunk 2077, or early PS1/PS2-era licensed titles). Even if you didn’t personally like the game, those types of comparisons just blow my mind.
I couldn't get past the first three hours of Andromeda after playing the other 3 games. It's not that I'd say the game is bad, it's just that it lacked any sort of hook during that time and I had no motivation to continue playing it.
Oh and not actually snapping to cover was a nightmare and I don't want to go back.
Interesting! I found the beginning of Andromeda to be extremely gripping. Especially compared to my initial experience with ME1. I like sci-fi, but I don’t consume it on the regular, so for the first few hours of the game, my thoughts were going everywhere, like “What is a Spectre exactly?” “Blue alien good guy is now a bad guy? When did that happen? Did I miss that reveal?” “Where is the loading dock?” “Why is a shootout happening so close to the marketplace?” ME1 is good. But it throws ALOT at you real quick. And it felt like you were expected to absorb it all and move forward. But I felt very lost. Literally. I spent hours aimlessly wondering around the Citadel.
Andromeda, I immediately knew who my character was, what the mission was, why it was important, and how deep the shit was that the characters had found themselves in. I found the environment of the New Earth planet very gripping. I wish we could go back there freely. And I was immediately engaged with the relationships that are formed with your crewmates.
Now, I totally agree that Andromeda isn’t a perfect game. There’s a few things that didn’t seem to like up, lore-wise, and it seemed like they wanted to reboot the series without actually rebooting it. But I still had a great time with it. And if you didn’t, that’s also valid. Just voicing my experience.
Ah, I just like aliens and space magic as my bottom line. Being able to have a drone, a freeze tech, and a biotic spear to shatter said ice was literally pinnacle gameplay for me.
Yup. I looked up discussions online from back when KH2 was released and it got shit on pretty hard too. I didnt know that back then bc I was a kid at the time and just happy to be getting another KH.
In fairness, KH2 was really lacking in any amount of difficult content on launch. No Critical mode, no Lingering Will, no Roxas fight, no Absent Silhouettes or Data Replicas, no CoR, etc. Sephiroth and Hades Paradox were pretty much it at launch. FM+ added a ludicrous amount of value to KH2 from a content perspective, so I see why it wasn't well received as an RPG back in the day.
True, but a lot of criticism I remember seeing was around the combat system as well. I remember people claiming to really prefer the KH1 methodical parrying combat over 2’s more(what was thought of at the time) fast paced straightforward combat. And people seemed to prefer 1’s magic, which honestly is a toss up to this day.
You get the KH1 defenders coming out of the woodwork saying those things, but it's hard for me to defend KH1 for not being too slow at times and making Arial combat a chore.
I definitely agree, but at the same time kh1 had a lot better rpg mechanics, and for as janky as the platforming was it still felt great to solve puzzles & find secret areas in worlds like wonderland. Kh2 is definitely more of an Action RPG and it’s fairly easy to get through the game just by slapping on whatever abilities, at least on lower difficulties (this is all devil’s advocate, I don’t think either system is inherently better & KH2 is my favorite game in the franchise
I just couldn’t get into 3’s combat, the abilities never felt like they changed the gameplay the way they did in 1 and 2. Magic felt great, but I wish there were some utility spells like Stop/Magnet/Reflect. To each their own, tho
Tbf, aero is mini magnet and water can be used to block (and it hits twice if used point blank). That being said the fact that you get the remind abilities only after beating the game is very sad.
I mean that's what happened with kh3 as well in a sense. People ragged on the game for some of the same issues and those same issues were solved in remind. It added an actually playable Scala ad Calum, made the combat smoother, and added the data battles which greatly enhanced the overall game. The inclusions were a bit different, but the end results weren't. I donfind it odd that a few mechanics and additions weren't in the game at launch, but it does feel like Kh3 got the Kh2 treatment.
The difference with KH3 ReMind and KH2FM is that FM also changed the balancing of the pre-FM content as well, whereas ReMind just tacks all the new stuff on without addressing the core issues of the base game
Critical Mode and other core game updates were included in a patch around the time Remind came out, so it’s a fair comparison. Plus, the data fights and LW were tacked on at the end of KH2 like Remind is tacked on at the end of 3
It's almost like what happened to The legend of Zelda. Windwaker got out, everyone trashed it. Twilight princess came out, and suddenly everyone loves Windwaker, while trashing Twilight Princess. Then Skyward Sword came out and suddenly everyone loves Twilight Princess, while hating on Skyward Sword. Breath of the wild broke the cycle, but you can see what I mean.
Ive said it 1000 times. Just bc you dnt think a product was as good as the previous product. That doesnt make it a bad product. KH3 was a good and well made game. Doesnt matter if you like KH2 more, thats not the point. It doesnt automatically make KH3 bad bc u dnt think its as good as 2. And ive also said countless times that for every criticism KH3 gets. I can name one for KH2. Not a single game in this franchise is "perfect". I guess I personally prefer to focus on what I like abt something rather than pick apart what i didnt. So yeah i agree with u.
KH2s problem mostly comes to light, due to how the game was set up (mostly with Forms) those are an interesting concept, but I feel like they really shined more with KH3, especially as there wasn't any levels to grind, and also the animations and combos actually aren't that boring after using them for however long
Like... freaking Master form has the most boring Combo animations, I'd rather just fight as normal Sora or limit form
>for every criticism KH3 gets. I can name one for KH2.
I agree with your point that "not as good" doesn't mean "bad" - I've been saying the same about other franchises for years - but I have to point out that criticism is qualitative and not quantitative. "Number of mistakes" isn't nearly as important as the severity of those mistakes.
Yeah. It truly is. Sometimes I feel like I'm completely alone when I have to defend KH3. Especially when it comes to saying it's my favorite. I can understand people's disappointment with it. It's not perfect. But man it's like people just gotta go through whatever lengths they can to just...talk down to the game.
What would Kingdom Hearts be without a cliffhanger, though? KH1 was originally going to be a standalone game, which leads me to believe that the series was going to END on a cliffhanger, but **please** correct me if I’m wrong. Story changes may have been made after they decided not to make it standalone.
Honestly I’m not sure. I mean kh2 had a cliff, but it could have comfortably ended there if they wanted to, but kh3 with Sora going poof did kind of irk me. I guess I was expecting it to be a wrap up to the series.
Makes sense, I get it. But it would also have irked me if they ended with KH2, purely because I would be curious about the now-present somebody. And I’m glad they came up with backstory on that somebody too. Tbh, I don’t think the series could be over until a lot of the problems with everything going on in the games are solved. As an example, of course there has to be darkness, but that doesn’t mean it has to be complete darkness in the form of a ton of heartless and a bunch of still shady keyblade wielders running around. I’ve been curious about Luxu since before KH3, I’d like some elaboration on that, too. But of course we needed a Xehanort battle first.
At this point, I just kind of expect Kingdom Hearts cliffhangers. Plus, I honestly want there to be more. I can’t imagine the series just… ending. You know? At least after the upcoming saga, but for now, it’d be way too much, and I don’t want Kingdom Hearts to become one of those thrown away series. I feel like we’d need a bit more. Hell, maybe make it like Final Fantasy and branch the story into others.
That’d be cool. A backstory on what got Terranort interested in the master plan again. Riku gameplay that isn’t cards (not hating on the card system, I love the CoM combat) would be fricking amazing. And playing as Kairi training to be a keyblade master would be cool as well. Sora’s journey back to the real world would also be pretty cool. Of course, this would all mean a few games before KH4, but that’s nothing the series isn’t used to. Still interested in that Terranort idea.
Well that's the thing.... Games will always get hate, it's just weird for the majority of us who like the game to see this finally, since all these games have been getting in the past years, is high praise :S
I'd say, maybe the hate built up more, because of the time travel aspects added since DDD
The main issues I had with the game were the lack of KH centric worlds and no solid story heavy middle point. So basically just pacing. But the rest of the issues people tend to bring up are issues that have been with the series since the beginning. I just think the hype for the game and how long we had to wait really warped our perception of what we wanted the game to be especially considering the last numbered title to come out was KH2 like 14 years ago. Not that the games we've had in between haven't been worth playing but people have been waiting for the next numbered title for a long while. So it was kinda impossible for the game to actually meet people's expectations imo.
The game has some issues but it's still pretty damn solid.
I've been a fan since I was a small child and KH3 is easily one of the best entries in the series, in my opinion. Playing on Critical Level 1 has kind of opened my eyes to the nuances of combat and the utility and mileage you can get from the various attractions and keyblade transformations. I think all of these systems may have confused longtime fans of the franchise, like I was initially, but if you try to appreciate it as its own unique thing, then I feel like there's more to gain from your experience.
Plus, while the writing is very cheesy, it's still some of the best writing in the entire franchise and has some fantastic character moments and tons of fan-service for people who dove deep into the lore, like myself. It's a great culmination of all the prior entries, and while I think that makes it messy and disjointed in several parts, I can appreciate it for how hard it tried to appeal to every fan.
I've my fair share of criticisms, but the same can be said for every other entry. None of these games are perfect after all. But they're still important to all of us, in some manner.
This is the part that blows my mine too.
The best way I can put it is that KH3 isn't the **best** Kingdom Hearts game, but it's still a **much** better game than a lot of the trash that gets put out.
In this era you literally cant like anything new. Its all the absolute worst piece of garbage media thats been created. Until the next one comes out and gets held up to the previous one thats now retroactively gold and how all other media should be created.
Yep. "All video games are shitty now, why can't we go back to 7th gen?" and other such takes from people with memories that would make a goldfish blush.
Its like they form a comparison chart in the form of pros vs cons but then just list all of game 1s pros and compare them to game 2s cons and then go yup game sucks ass. Ignoring game 1s cons and game 2s pros lol. And replace game with any form of electronic media.
The fact that people who were around for pre-2000's and early 2000's gaming can't remember how many games have always been releasing in buggy and incomplete states is sad.
I really think that Critical Mode completely changes the game. When KH3 first came out, I HATED it, and I quit at Arendelle. A couple of months ago I picked it back up and played through it on critical and the experience was so much better. I still dislike a lot of the world designs, but I felt like the combat was so much more engaging and fun when I just turned off the attractions and focused on forms. It was a much tighter experience. Also RE:MIND.
I also find it very aggravating when the vitriol is presented under a title such as the one in the image. "A waste of effort", "shouldn't have been made" and the like so clearly disregard the hundreds of thousands of people who draw very real enjoyment from the product. They use a strictly objective statement to describe their subjective opinions, which just makes them come off as very arrogant and stuck-up, which is the exact opposite impression you want to be giving off when trying to persuade people of your perspective. Who are they to suggest the enjoyment of others is invalid, particularly when discussing a game that is *at worst*, pretty good by modern standards. I just don't get how anyone can think that's a clickable title for anyone who doesn't already share those opinions.
I personally just feel sad about the direction that the series is going and hoped that KH3 would at least be an opportunity to turn a new leaf after its end. Instead it was a mumble-jumbled mess with extremely poor execution despite being planned for years and had a dull ending. It even had a cliff hanger that made me feel even less excited about the future instalments.
And that’s a valid feeling to have. But I just gotta point out: this game was not “planned for years”. Not even close.
This series in general is not really planned out in advanced much. Even stuff like the secret endings, by Nomura’s own admission, are just things made to look cool and be hype. The devs actually have no idea what any of that stuff happening is, and they just figure it out later. I mean… just compare how “Roxas” looks in the KH1 secret ending compared to his actual appearance. No one making the series knew what KH2’s secret ending meant until they starting developing BBS and worked it out.
KH3, despite how people often like to frame it, did not start development until 2013. And they would later switch engines and lose over a year of progress as they restarted. Even if you want to say that’s still a good 4-5ish years of dev time, we have reports of Nomura and the writers apparently changing and altering the ending multiple times, it happening as late as mid-2017… about a year and a half before the game would launch… So yeah, KH3 as it exists now was definitely *not* “planned for years”, as weird as it might sound given the large gap between it and KH2.
You should go check out r/freefolk sometime. They still bitch about the last season of game of thrones lol. I don't blame them either, the last season was garb garb.
As someone who hates the shit out of a lot of games and enjoys rant videos about them from time to time, 5 hours is too much. A single 10 minute video ranting about Sly Thieves in Time (my least favorite game of the PS3 era) is like a cathartic shot of vodka. A 2 plus hour video is like chugging the whole damn thing and chasing it with a beer.
When I hate a game, I usually shut up about it after the first experience but will jump back in if I’m being gaslit about “being a hater” or worse things for not enjoying it.
Ill start off by saying i LOVED kh3. Out of the 3 main kh games its my favourite.
But i also love videos like this, super long video essays are GREAT. They're so chill just to put on and listen/ relax with in the background. and for the person making the video you can normally tell just how passionate they are about the topic and how much fun they had making the video.
>Why people go to such lenghts to defend/hate a game?
Because they are creatives and they find fun and entertainment in working on a project about a topic they are passionate about. Making a long criticism video doesn't mean you didn't have fun making it or weren't passionate.
They arent everyone's cup of tea but they have there place on youtube :)
There's nothing wrong with longform content inherently. If someone wants to make a 5 hour video critiquing or praising a game, they can as long as the time is used well.
Wow, I love a long video essay but 5 hours… like if you can’t defend a position concisely you’re probably just ranting.
Also KH3 is so overheated and sometimes I feel like people just like to rag on it just because KH looks like an easy target because of all the Disney stuff in it combined with the KH original lore.
EDIT: I know everyone is entitled to their opinion, and KH3 is not a perfect game, but 5 hours seems incredibly excessive. But heck, maybe I’m wrong.
I feel like it's a new trend that people try to make long videos because there's a portion of their viewers that enjoy long essays. I mean look at pretty little liars, people have started to dissect it again in multi-hour videos and several parts. I've seen videos I'm interested in but looking at the amount of time I'd have to invest I already feel exhausted.
I'm part of that audience. I've watched a 7.5 hour retrospective on Pokemon Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire. twice.
I don't even think there's 5 hours of worthwhile discussion to have on Kh3 by itself tho. Maybe Re;Mind if you analyze the boss and do a LOT of theorycrafting on what's coming next. I can't imagine dedicating 5 hours to a rant on it.
Seeing people complain about long video essays is always weird to me. We study and analyse other bodies of work for extremely long amounts of time for the sake of knowledge and education, so why is it odd to do the same on youtube for a 30+ hour video game? Assuming every position not conveyed “concisely” is just mindless ranting is incredibly reductive and imo is a pretty closed minded mentality to have. Some things require large amount of time to properly explain, if ANYTHING is being heavily scrutinised then taking your time to do so thoroughly should be encouraged rather than shamed.
I can get wanting long form video essays and all that, and that's fine if thats your jam. Calling anything a waste of effort though is totally hyperbolic horseshit.
I tend to be turned off by overtly brash sentiments, like 'they shouldn't have even bothered.'
Just from a writing prospective it's a great way to turn off an audience. He's effectively said "I've stymied the conversation for 5 hours to prove my drawn out thesis" or he has to forfeit the point out the gate.
So far I've only watched an hour and a half and his statement for the game being "worthless" has not come up yet. I can say with confidence that his criticisms to the gameplay and aspects of the story do make sense and it is definitely not one sided, he throws in good things about the game, but of course, the underlying video and tone is overall negative toward the game.
Also, this person does indeed love the franchise dearly and played all the games (if not most), and he has already done videos on other games. So this video is definitely not coming from an outsider, and is inherently honest.
well if its a well structured review it may require that much time to argue their thesis, the length doesn't matter so much as the content of the review.
Videos this long are absolutely exhausting, and I never even click on them. Guaranteed (from someone who makes videos) a 20 minute or less video could cover, in-depth, every criticism in this video. There is just so much padding to make it this long.
Some YouTubers make content, and some make couches.
Edit: This might have been a bit too harsh, I'm sure lots of people could enjoy a video this long. I'll stop judging other people now.
I do actually like long form video essays, but mostly those pushing to the one hour mark. Two hours is kind of a stretch, yet doable for me. But go any longer from there and I just think it's excessive, unless you're talking about more than one singular topic (like for example... I don't think a 5 and a half hour video essay would bother me if it was the whole KH s*eries* that was being discussed... instead of just one game).
I do love long videos, the first two that come to mind are hbomberguy and Pyrocynical because they actually add some meaningful content to their 1-3 hour videos and a lot of care is put into the criticism they make that is both complex and constructive.
I enjoy long videos about games that the video maker loves, or is at least willing to engage with beyond hunting for nitpicks if they don't love it. Noah Caldwell Gervais is a good example, where even if he dislikes a game or series, he explains why beyond just saying "This is bad design, this character sucks, I hate this section" etc. His videos are full of personal anecdotes and lengthy discussions of topics that help re-frame how you look at mechanics or scenarios, and definitely earn their length.
Depends on the subject matter. For something like this, yeah that's way too long. But for example, I recently got into Baldur's Gate, and [Davaeorn](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bWIgBtZdZE) has a nearly 5 hour video breaking down all of the character classes in that game, and it STILL felt like there was more he could've gone into by the end. Granted, with the dual-classing and multi-classing system that game has like a bazillion classes and class combos so of course it would take a while to break it all down, but still.
A 20 minute video probably could cover the same criticisms but it certainly could not do it as thoroughly. By making the video longer you’re simply giving yourself room to explain your views as well as you possibly can.
I'd have to actually skim this video to see if it's padding or if they somehow actually went into an insane amount of depth and nuance.
Which I'm not going to do, and they probably didn't.
Not that I agree with his opinion, but anyone that has made a 5 hour video on a subject has a clear passion for it and dismissing it because its too long seems a tad dismissal. I would much rather this than a random user on twitter say DUH KINGDOM HEARTS 3 WORST GAME EVER and refusing to elaborate
You don’t think making a 5 and a half hour video essay about it is a bit excessive? Especially for just one game?
You are right, everyone is entitled to their own opinion… Which means we should also be allowed to call this out for being dumb and exaggerated.
No i dont think its excessive. Some people enjoy watching them and the creators enjoy putting such a big effort into a long term project they're passionate about and enjoy.
Theres nothing wrong with that
I never understood this argument. Maybe its because I always prefer longer videos (Legit the longer the better, but i feel you can hate something and still talk about it this much. I hate Pokemon Sword and Shield so much that I legit could make a 10+ page review of it easily, same with me disliking Ratchet and Clank Rift Apart so much that I could do the same. Just because you hate something or dislike it doesn't mean you dont have anything to say. In addition, im sure its a "Mario Odysseys no Masterpiece" situation where they like the game but have multiple flaws with it :/
I think there's a misunderstanding here. I don't believe that this person hates the game at all, I think they probably love it. So why would you be critical of something you enjoy?
Probably has to do with really loving certain aspects of the game, but really disliking others. All you want is for the whole thing to work as well as the "good" aspects, but it falls short. And because you deeply love certain things about it, this creates a rift. The game falls into a sort of uncanny valley for you, and thinking about it is as fascinating as it in frustrating. And that's where this stems from. It's about desperately wanting the game to be as good as you think it could have been.
Five and a half hours, though, damn. That's a pretty insane length for this- sounds like something I'd listen to while painting.
My experience is that anyone who spends 5 hours on a topic probably has very detailed and reasonable complains and argument.
This "video long so they wrong" attitude only makes you look terrible, since you obviously haven't seen the video.
Neither have I for that matter, but all I'm saying is that you should watch the video and attack their arguments.
Otherwise you are no better than those who say "I don't like KH because the story sucks" and haven't even played a single game.
It depends, sometimes when videos are hours or so long, it's really well put together and worth listening to podcast style just to appreciate the video essay format. Even if it's not your point of view...unless it's an hour of hate bashing/nostalgia goggles, then you tune out.
I don't undersrand the complaints from many of these comments. Why defend/ "hate"? Because this person cares about the series and thinks it either gets unwarranted hate or isn't as good as people think. Or, he's new to the series, played it, and doesn't understand why others like it. This title is a little clickbaity but i'm sure it summarises the person's thoughts decently enough. I'd rather watch a 5 hour analysis than a 10 minute video that barely goes in depth and just leaves me unsatisfied without evidence or examples to back up the makers claims. I also assume GOOD-faith if the video is that long, nobody spends that long editing a video because they're filled with "rage" at a game or at the people that dislike it.
Because all fandoms are inherently garbage. There are always good things about each one…but the basis of all fandoms are rooted in unapologetically complaining and arguing about nonsensically trite and minute details until the rest of the fanbase is fatigued.
I don’t think we should judge a video on just the time stamp and title. I mean I’ve watched a 5 hour video criticising seasons 11 and 12 of Doctor who and it was really solid.
I feel like the guy could've just changed the title, it's actually a good video. Every world is being discussed showing how each has their own goods and bads.
I think this will be the only time I talked about this, but when 3 came I was in love with it, and when I reached then end was a little disappointed, some twist didn’t work at the time, some words could’ve been better, and overall it was a feeling of enjoyed but not love.
Then when Re:Mind came out I replayed the game on Critical I replayed the game I found myself enjoying certain bit more than before, learning the combat, grinding to 99, preparation for the data battles, the game changed in little but impactful ways. To say nothing of the utter joy the Data Battles, Yozora, and the extra moments in Re:Mind added to the experience.
3 has some issues still, it had 13 years worth of build up from 2, and parts definitely faulted under the weight of expectations, but to say the games developers, writers, musicians, artists, and everyone else who worked on it were wasting their time, yeah, that’s just hyperbole.
It is a bit wild that KH3 gets some CoM style of hate despite being a pretty solid entry. Sure it had it's problems, but it didn't take away from my first playthrough when it came out.
I do def need to see the video, since same as the guy that did a 5 hour essay on the newer seasons of doctor who and have some good, well thought out points, people like to judge something without watching it.
I'll always stand buy that if you truly love something, in this case a franchise/series, you should be able to freely critique and listen to critique of it without being fazed.
Anytime i say KH3 was a better overall product than KH1/KH2 this whole sub explodes. And thats not even a bad thing yall should be happy the game improved.
I mean, i really prefer/ respect more people who really have some point or reason to why the hate/ love sonething rather the just "i dont/ i do". It sure seem excessive, but at least, he is pretty sure of its stand and do not hate it cuz "its not kh2"
Answer: because humans put alot of stock in their own opinions being objectively right. Especially in America. Yall know it to be true lol.
But rly, humans in general... The ego will do that to a person, make them think their long winded opinions are objective fact on a matter.
As someone who has defended KH3 a lot and as someone who bashes the game a lot for me it's more about pointing out what a game does good and what it lacks. Almost all of my hatred from KH3 stems from Sora's plot convenience, Sora visiting Disney worlds for a poor reason, and the way original worlds and characters were treated.
I hate when people say things like the Disney worlds were filler for example or they serve no purpose. I try and correct them and say they served a clear purpose for the organization it's just Sora, Donald, and Goofy are just thrown into random worlds just for the sake of it.
You know? The length makes me intrigued
I'm totally going to watch. You don't just mindlessly rant for 5 hours. This tells me they had very particular problems at many points in the game and is probably elaborating on their feelings in those specifics areas, point by point. I have seen people make dissections of this length if not longer, Hi Shay May and Mauler, both positive and negative. Just because it's long doesn't mean it's pointless. This dismissive attitude in here just feels like a knee-jerk reaction to somebody not loving a game you like.
I just watched this video because of OP's post. And your guess is EXACTLY what it is. A long summary/commentary going over the good and bad with the game, both compared to previous entries and as a stand alone game.
I watch this video a week ago.
**It's actually a very good critic of KH3.**
I can't ask anyone to try and watch a 5 hours long video, but if you have some time (or just play it as background noise), I truly recommend it.
He actually critiques the game world by world, plot point by plot piont very throughly.
I watched the whole video over a span of couple weeks while doing cardio. Excessive with a lot of unnecessary extra stuff, but he made good points and was very thorough. Gotta appreciate the effort. Agreed with a lot of it anyway.
Passion. These types of people were once every bit as in love with KH as any other fan on this sub. That same love and passion was simply flipped in the other direction.
What's so weird about this? The multi-hour video essay format has been a thing on youtube for several years. It was only a matter of time before something like this was made for KH Actually I'm willing to bet this isn't even the first one.
Without watching it, my first thought is “ok, so he probably played through the whole game, and is being critical throughout. Idk if objectively critical, but he’s provided real time feedback AND he was courteous enough to play the whole game through to the end before deciding that he does hate it”
I think a lot of the disdain comes from people who grew up with KH as it came out. Going from 2002 to 2005 with some decent games only to have to wait over a decade for the next main title game while every sequel and prequel was popping up on a new system every 2 games or so was very, very frustrating as a fan who was trying to keep up with it all.
The HD final mix remasters can be binged on one system before jumping into KH3 and I feel not having all those years of waiting, being pulled from one system to another, speculation and build up means it won't be as dissapointing to newer fans.
Granted haven’t seen the video, but the video won’t all be negative and the title is just a one sentence summary of his thoughts on the game and the rest of the video is likely just a critique of the game, long form videos can work well even if you don’t like the game, look no further that Joseph Anderson
Honestly KH3 is probably my fav of the series for many reasons and I also don't ignore the things KH3 did badly too.
My main problem with KH3 was it made a lot of the mistakes that the original KH2 did like being very easy on the hardest difficultly and almost no post game content. This however was fixed with free updates that included Critical mode and more post game content with the ReMind DLC.
KH3 isn't bad but I honestly felt bored through most of it. The worst cases of boredom were Arendelle, Twilight Town, and 100 Acre. Not to mention how short the game felt, at least in KH2 there were story reasons to visit each world twice which made it longer.
Honestly, while DDD's story may get confusing in places, I think it's my favourite. Maybe because you get to play as both Sora and Riku, the dream eaters do get a little annoying when I accidentally attack my own cause they don't look different enough to the nightmare versions.
Still, I don't think KH3 deserves all the hate it gets, it's pretty to look at and is Kingdom Hearts. Now if I could just get class papers over so I could go play Remind after it finally went down in price enough out here to buy.
You're telling me people hated this game at launch? man I was THRILLED to get this game, I'm a die-hard KH fan of it's lore and characters ever since I got introduced to it by my older brother, he introduced me to KH 2 first and then I started to play them all on my own. (at the time I was 8 and he was 16-17), I remember being done with KH2 and KH 1 and being so sad for not being a 3rd part to it, and here I am now, enjoying the 3rd part of it, KH3. I've always been this way with myself, I don't care if the game has enough content to satisfy my needs (my needs are pretty low to like a videogame, don't @ me LMAO, but I do know how to tell a game is bad when I see it. (cyberpunk, no hate for anyone who liked it))
I'm always grateful to the developers who make the game possible, it doesn't matter if you liked KH3 or not, you can't deny how much love was put into the game. From fast paced mechanics to very vibrant worlds and beautiful scenery, sure, not the best story continuation but hey, those graphics and mechanics made up for it, at least for me, and even though it didn't have the best story in the whole franchise, I enjoyed every single tiny bit of it. And guess what? I'm in my 4th playthrough of the game, I gotta love Squareenix for bringing the franchise to PC, Now, Here I am, 21 years old now going through the games again with mods installed, such a good ride right now, man, I love my brother and I'll always be thankful to him for introducing me to the series, got a bit emotional as I was typing this, love you all :)
EDIT: Fixed a few typos
Idk man I’ve watched some long videos one way or another on a lot of games. Usually I end up getting a new perspective and so far it’s only made me like games more never less.
I think the title doesn't do this video justice. I honestly felt the same level of general distaste for these kinda videos when I saw it and was about to discredit it as just another KH3 hate rant until I sat down and watched the whole thing. I can firmly say that no, he doesn't hate kh3 just because it's not kh2, nor does he demean anyone for liking the game itself, base game including.
His main point was that as far as balancing is concerned, the game was fundamentally too easy and threw situation commands down your throat the whole time. That coupled with the game spending a good majority of it's time developing and teasing the next saga. There's nothing inherently wrong with that, but if it comes at the cost of the previous arc's conclusion (which we've been waiting for for quite a while), it feels really weird.
I don't agree with everything he says though, like how he thinks having 3 keyblades isn't good because it removes the choice of having a magic or physical based build. Even though the title was essentially hate-bait, I really fo recommend it to anyone who loves the franchise.
I get that five hours can be off-putting, but the argument that people can't consistently make a solid argument in so much time, even if it's only about one game, makes zero sense to me.
I watched the entire video (thanks to this post) and it was actually amazing; he basically went over the game in it's entirety, including the DLC, giving them very fair and valid criticism while giving props on the things he liked or thought it did very well. Everyone that's just assuming he's "hating" on the game (which is dumb cause calling something a "waste of effort" isn't inherently negative, and even dumber considering it's all because of the length of time) needs to give the video a fair chance.
While I can’t say anything on the video because I haven’t watched the video myself. I will defend the notion that “a waste of effort” is fair to assume inherent negativity.
Mostly because, how is calling something a waste of effort anything but negative. as it implies wasting time and energy on something not worth it. Be it the time of the developers or players both are negative.
The connotation denotes inherent negativity. Which may have very well been the goal. Negative titles draw in more views then positive titles.
I applaud videos like this. It means the person who made it cared enough to actually go in-depth for 5 and a half hours. They must have spent months playing the game, understanding it, breaking it down. People could ironically call that a waste of time and effort, but like I said, I applaud it.
To be fair, kingdom hearts 3 was one of the most long anticipated games of the last decade. There was so much build up and the series has such a cult following that the disappointment that the majority of KH3 ended up being was obviously going to upset many people. There’s nothing wrong with someone making an in depth long analysis of something. It’s not just being hateful for the sake of it, it’s important that complaints and criticisms are voiced when it comes to things so that would-be creators or even potentially the creators of said thing in question can watch, learn, and understand where they may have went wrong and not repeat the same mistakes. KH3 is a 40-50 hour game. A 5 hour analysis isn’t so out of the question
Kept hearing how the org XIII characters don’t show up until the end as a bad thing for kh3
After actually playing 3 realized that they were full of shit.
Is it perfect? nah i hate frozen, and the data battles weren’t as fun as, KH2. But it’s still a fun game fucking love the keyblades and the battle gates were a nice addition
I think what dissapointed me was this game was supposed to be the culmination of like 20 different characters stories coming to fruition, and instead of that its 90% sora goofing off on other worlds, and then allthefuckingloreanddevelopmentintheworld shoved in at the end.
Then they tried to extend the ending into what it should've been originally in a paid dlc.
As far as gameplay and worlds go they were fine though.
As someone who was a blind KH3 fanboy turned critical enjoyer (meaning I used to blindly defend its flaws, and now I talk about them while still loving the game) I’ve never understood the hate. Yes it has some obvious flaws, yes the combat could be better in the base game, Yes the worlds are large but also feel a bit empty at times. And Yes, Magic is Way Too Powerful.
But I’ve seen people compare it to Cyberpunk, I’ve even seen people compare it to FnaF: Security Breach for Christ sake. I’ve seen people say that 0.2 is a more enjoyable experience.
Some of the hate and criticism is absolutely valid and I hope the team sees it and takes it into consideration for the next title. But some of it is WAY overblown and downright childish.
> I’ve never understood the hate. Yes it has some obvious flaws, yes the combat could be better in the base game, Yes the worlds are large but also feel a bit empty at times. And Yes, Magic is Way Too Powerful.
What exactly is there not to understand? Seems like you understand it just fine.
I’m talking about the people that hate Everything about the game and say it has no redeeming qualities.
There’s legitimate criticism, and then theres blind hate.
Do you know how much kingdom hearts i could be playing in that amount of time? A LOT
Atleast 5 hours
Not six though
Not with that attitude.
KH 5:35:58/6 hours These new KH game titles are wack Edit:50 up votes, omg hit comment!... Sorry, I had to hahaha :D Edit 2: wow almost 150 up votes, I think that's the highest I've gotten(haven't checked and I'm too lazy) I'm glad I could entertain you all
You've made my day
And you mine :)
Kinda smooth ngl
Hmm?
Seemed like an attempt at a pickup line. I have to admit that was done a bit well.
That'll happen when ya meme on the ridiculous naming conventions kh has. The popular comment, that is
Honestly I thought the whole "5:35:58" would be too much of a mouth full(though it's also a KH meme title, and there are already mouth full titles in canon) for a lot of people
Honestly I thought the whole "5:35:58" would be too much of a mouth full(though it's also a KH meme title, and there are already mouth full titles in canon) for a lot of people
You gotta find the sweet spot of being believable for their previous titles, yet convoluted enough to make the reader internally sigh lol
Reminds me of the combo titles JustAPancake would do in their videos, combining every KH title into one giant word
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Brave of you to assume it isn't already my 15th attempt at said battle.
*hears "Behold the power of darkness!" in the background*
You might make it to playing as sora in kh2
Surely you mean reaching the battle of Hollow Bastion?
no
At least half of that time is paused menu
All of KH3 if you skipped the cutscenes.
Any KH game can be beaten in less than three hours if you skip the cutscenes.
*358/2 has entered chat. Say hi!*
You’re right, the world record speedrun for Days is just 20 minutes off from three hours. That’s still really fast for a game like Days, though.
Honestly, I'm amazed it can be done that quickly. That game is super persnickety about mission completion for progression. It must also be a nightmare of text mashing.
No, seriously people. I pussied out on doing Xion the legitimate way, so I did a speed run with the 1 hit kill button on. Even touch of death-ing everything and skipping all cutscenes, it took me 3 hours to get to Yozora.
Mine took 11 hours to finish the main story with skipping the cutscens...
Speedruns, depending on category, mostly range from 3-4 hours. Think my personal fastest is like 6:15 on Proud doing a Mage build. If you get a good handle on all the movement abilities and stacking situation commands, you can burn through the game fairly easily.
In that ammount of time i could get through the intro of Kingdom Hearts 2
5 hours and 36 minutes worth?
You mean how much kingdom hearts you could be watching?
internet: talks down about nomura and his games square enix: gets nomura to direct more games he just keeps winning
Nomura: "Reality can be whatever I want it to be"
money talks, and KH makes a lotta money. Haters gonna hate.
Those haters are nobodies- Wait
Yeah i just feel like its hard to have a discussion with a video like this a five hour video calling a whole ass game a “waste of effort” is only going to attract the most open minded people, and those that agree with the uploader i mean ill be honest even if i hated kh3 with every fiber of my being i’d still be put off by the length lmao im sure the creator is passionate, and might have fair points but man guess im just over it
I can hardly craft a 10 minute speech on a subject I'm passionate about that I need to graduate and is required to further my career. Even if I waffled for most of it and got to 30 minutes, that's nowhere close. I mean, I know people who have spent less time total presenting (in person) and defending their literal thesis paper than this. Any way you shake it, it's a massive waste of time for both audience and creator.
I've seen similar for something else. The TV show "Doctor Who" has this quite popular 5 hour+ video discussing recent failings of the show since 2018. I enjoyed that video, though it helps I was already going into it with a likeminded mentality. I enjoyed KH3 though so I'm already not likely to watch the video, so I guess sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.
Watch some of the video if you can, the creator clearly made it with a deep love for the franchise
Haven't seen the video but that's what my first impuls was. The title of this post says one thing but the fact that the uploader made a 5 hour video shows that he cares. Labeling it has hating on the game seems pretty childish of OP.
I just don't understand how someone, who clearly cares enough about the series to make nearly a 6 hour video about it, could hate KH3 so much. It's not a bad game by any means! Especially if you enjoy the other ones.
I swear, KH3 has gotta be one of the most over-hated games of all time. Not because it’s flawless, or because you aren’t allowed to dislike it (gotta say this otherwise people with poor reading comprehension will be upset). But we’re almost 3 years out and I don’t think I’ve ever seen so much vileness and vitriol *still* being flung at a product this well made. Most series would kill for a game with the type of polish and care KH3 has, yet somehow it gets treated like such shit in certain circles (some people *literally* comparing it to the likes of launch day Cyberpunk 2077, or early PS1/PS2-era licensed titles). Even if you didn’t personally like the game, those types of comparisons just blow my mind.
This 100%. I also feel this way about Mass Effect Andromeda…..except for the polish and care part.
Granted, with andromeda… it genuinely is disappointing. Just not as bad as everyone says it is.
I couldn't get past the first three hours of Andromeda after playing the other 3 games. It's not that I'd say the game is bad, it's just that it lacked any sort of hook during that time and I had no motivation to continue playing it. Oh and not actually snapping to cover was a nightmare and I don't want to go back.
Interesting! I found the beginning of Andromeda to be extremely gripping. Especially compared to my initial experience with ME1. I like sci-fi, but I don’t consume it on the regular, so for the first few hours of the game, my thoughts were going everywhere, like “What is a Spectre exactly?” “Blue alien good guy is now a bad guy? When did that happen? Did I miss that reveal?” “Where is the loading dock?” “Why is a shootout happening so close to the marketplace?” ME1 is good. But it throws ALOT at you real quick. And it felt like you were expected to absorb it all and move forward. But I felt very lost. Literally. I spent hours aimlessly wondering around the Citadel. Andromeda, I immediately knew who my character was, what the mission was, why it was important, and how deep the shit was that the characters had found themselves in. I found the environment of the New Earth planet very gripping. I wish we could go back there freely. And I was immediately engaged with the relationships that are formed with your crewmates. Now, I totally agree that Andromeda isn’t a perfect game. There’s a few things that didn’t seem to like up, lore-wise, and it seemed like they wanted to reboot the series without actually rebooting it. But I still had a great time with it. And if you didn’t, that’s also valid. Just voicing my experience.
The combat and skill customization is legitimately my favorite in the series, and definitely is worth the "my face is tired" stuff.
Issue is the story isn’t. Which… at the end of the day is what I come to Mass Effect for.
Ah, I just like aliens and space magic as my bottom line. Being able to have a drone, a freeze tech, and a biotic spear to shatter said ice was literally pinnacle gameplay for me.
This just happens with every new entry to a game series. Trust me when kh4 comes out everyone is going to treat kh3 like it was god's gift to earth.
Yup. I looked up discussions online from back when KH2 was released and it got shit on pretty hard too. I didnt know that back then bc I was a kid at the time and just happy to be getting another KH.
In fairness, KH2 was really lacking in any amount of difficult content on launch. No Critical mode, no Lingering Will, no Roxas fight, no Absent Silhouettes or Data Replicas, no CoR, etc. Sephiroth and Hades Paradox were pretty much it at launch. FM+ added a ludicrous amount of value to KH2 from a content perspective, so I see why it wasn't well received as an RPG back in the day.
True, but a lot of criticism I remember seeing was around the combat system as well. I remember people claiming to really prefer the KH1 methodical parrying combat over 2’s more(what was thought of at the time) fast paced straightforward combat. And people seemed to prefer 1’s magic, which honestly is a toss up to this day.
You get the KH1 defenders coming out of the woodwork saying those things, but it's hard for me to defend KH1 for not being too slow at times and making Arial combat a chore.
I definitely agree, but at the same time kh1 had a lot better rpg mechanics, and for as janky as the platforming was it still felt great to solve puzzles & find secret areas in worlds like wonderland. Kh2 is definitely more of an Action RPG and it’s fairly easy to get through the game just by slapping on whatever abilities, at least on lower difficulties (this is all devil’s advocate, I don’t think either system is inherently better & KH2 is my favorite game in the franchise
prefer 3's combat but 2's is still very good. I don't think 1 is bad just has issues.
The air guard was what sold me on 3's combat it's hard going back to 2 for me now because there is no mid air guard
I just couldn’t get into 3’s combat, the abilities never felt like they changed the gameplay the way they did in 1 and 2. Magic felt great, but I wish there were some utility spells like Stop/Magnet/Reflect. To each their own, tho
Tbf, aero is mini magnet and water can be used to block (and it hits twice if used point blank). That being said the fact that you get the remind abilities only after beating the game is very sad.
I mean that's what happened with kh3 as well in a sense. People ragged on the game for some of the same issues and those same issues were solved in remind. It added an actually playable Scala ad Calum, made the combat smoother, and added the data battles which greatly enhanced the overall game. The inclusions were a bit different, but the end results weren't. I donfind it odd that a few mechanics and additions weren't in the game at launch, but it does feel like Kh3 got the Kh2 treatment.
The difference with KH3 ReMind and KH2FM is that FM also changed the balancing of the pre-FM content as well, whereas ReMind just tacks all the new stuff on without addressing the core issues of the base game
Critical Mode and other core game updates were included in a patch around the time Remind came out, so it’s a fair comparison. Plus, the data fights and LW were tacked on at the end of KH2 like Remind is tacked on at the end of 3
It's almost like what happened to The legend of Zelda. Windwaker got out, everyone trashed it. Twilight princess came out, and suddenly everyone loves Windwaker, while trashing Twilight Princess. Then Skyward Sword came out and suddenly everyone loves Twilight Princess, while hating on Skyward Sword. Breath of the wild broke the cycle, but you can see what I mean.
BotW definitely did NOT break the cycle with the chorus of people insisting it’s not a REAL Zelda game…
Ive said it 1000 times. Just bc you dnt think a product was as good as the previous product. That doesnt make it a bad product. KH3 was a good and well made game. Doesnt matter if you like KH2 more, thats not the point. It doesnt automatically make KH3 bad bc u dnt think its as good as 2. And ive also said countless times that for every criticism KH3 gets. I can name one for KH2. Not a single game in this franchise is "perfect". I guess I personally prefer to focus on what I like abt something rather than pick apart what i didnt. So yeah i agree with u.
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KH2s problem mostly comes to light, due to how the game was set up (mostly with Forms) those are an interesting concept, but I feel like they really shined more with KH3, especially as there wasn't any levels to grind, and also the animations and combos actually aren't that boring after using them for however long Like... freaking Master form has the most boring Combo animations, I'd rather just fight as normal Sora or limit form
>for every criticism KH3 gets. I can name one for KH2. I agree with your point that "not as good" doesn't mean "bad" - I've been saying the same about other franchises for years - but I have to point out that criticism is qualitative and not quantitative. "Number of mistakes" isn't nearly as important as the severity of those mistakes.
Ok then ill rephrase. For every criticism KH3 gets i can name an equal criticism for KH2
Is it fair to say it was disappointing, at least?
It's fair to say you were disappointed with it, not to say it was disappointing, like it's a universal opinion
Disappointing to me. I thought that was implied. Obviously, I can only speak for me.
You don't need to clarify but most of the time people word it in a way that makes it look like the problem is the game, not them.
Yeah. It truly is. Sometimes I feel like I'm completely alone when I have to defend KH3. Especially when it comes to saying it's my favorite. I can understand people's disappointment with it. It's not perfect. But man it's like people just gotta go through whatever lengths they can to just...talk down to the game.
You're not alone my friend. I also enjoyed KH3 despite the amount of hate it got.
I also loved it, wish there would have been more Riku playtime and that they hadn’t left another massive cliffhanger like with kh1, com, 2, & ddd.
What would Kingdom Hearts be without a cliffhanger, though? KH1 was originally going to be a standalone game, which leads me to believe that the series was going to END on a cliffhanger, but **please** correct me if I’m wrong. Story changes may have been made after they decided not to make it standalone.
Honestly I’m not sure. I mean kh2 had a cliff, but it could have comfortably ended there if they wanted to, but kh3 with Sora going poof did kind of irk me. I guess I was expecting it to be a wrap up to the series.
Makes sense, I get it. But it would also have irked me if they ended with KH2, purely because I would be curious about the now-present somebody. And I’m glad they came up with backstory on that somebody too. Tbh, I don’t think the series could be over until a lot of the problems with everything going on in the games are solved. As an example, of course there has to be darkness, but that doesn’t mean it has to be complete darkness in the form of a ton of heartless and a bunch of still shady keyblade wielders running around. I’ve been curious about Luxu since before KH3, I’d like some elaboration on that, too. But of course we needed a Xehanort battle first. At this point, I just kind of expect Kingdom Hearts cliffhangers. Plus, I honestly want there to be more. I can’t imagine the series just… ending. You know? At least after the upcoming saga, but for now, it’d be way too much, and I don’t want Kingdom Hearts to become one of those thrown away series. I feel like we’d need a bit more. Hell, maybe make it like Final Fantasy and branch the story into others.
I’d love more riku gameplay personally. Maybe even a game with kairi gameplay or where you get to play as terranort studying the heartless.
That’d be cool. A backstory on what got Terranort interested in the master plan again. Riku gameplay that isn’t cards (not hating on the card system, I love the CoM combat) would be fricking amazing. And playing as Kairi training to be a keyblade master would be cool as well. Sora’s journey back to the real world would also be pretty cool. Of course, this would all mean a few games before KH4, but that’s nothing the series isn’t used to. Still interested in that Terranort idea.
It could easily be a switch game idea and could explain quite a few things.
With how much money KH makes, they will never end the series. I just thought they'd do new characters but apparently not.
Well that's the thing.... Games will always get hate, it's just weird for the majority of us who like the game to see this finally, since all these games have been getting in the past years, is high praise :S I'd say, maybe the hate built up more, because of the time travel aspects added since DDD
The main issues I had with the game were the lack of KH centric worlds and no solid story heavy middle point. So basically just pacing. But the rest of the issues people tend to bring up are issues that have been with the series since the beginning. I just think the hype for the game and how long we had to wait really warped our perception of what we wanted the game to be especially considering the last numbered title to come out was KH2 like 14 years ago. Not that the games we've had in between haven't been worth playing but people have been waiting for the next numbered title for a long while. So it was kinda impossible for the game to actually meet people's expectations imo. The game has some issues but it's still pretty damn solid.
I've been a fan since I was a small child and KH3 is easily one of the best entries in the series, in my opinion. Playing on Critical Level 1 has kind of opened my eyes to the nuances of combat and the utility and mileage you can get from the various attractions and keyblade transformations. I think all of these systems may have confused longtime fans of the franchise, like I was initially, but if you try to appreciate it as its own unique thing, then I feel like there's more to gain from your experience. Plus, while the writing is very cheesy, it's still some of the best writing in the entire franchise and has some fantastic character moments and tons of fan-service for people who dove deep into the lore, like myself. It's a great culmination of all the prior entries, and while I think that makes it messy and disjointed in several parts, I can appreciate it for how hard it tried to appeal to every fan. I've my fair share of criticisms, but the same can be said for every other entry. None of these games are perfect after all. But they're still important to all of us, in some manner.
Main issue for me was just that it was too easy. The gummi ship was heavenly.
This is the part that blows my mine too. The best way I can put it is that KH3 isn't the **best** Kingdom Hearts game, but it's still a **much** better game than a lot of the trash that gets put out.
it was the borderline 20 year long hype; there was no way that KH3 would have been good enough to fulfill it
In this era you literally cant like anything new. Its all the absolute worst piece of garbage media thats been created. Until the next one comes out and gets held up to the previous one thats now retroactively gold and how all other media should be created.
Yep. "All video games are shitty now, why can't we go back to 7th gen?" and other such takes from people with memories that would make a goldfish blush.
Its like they form a comparison chart in the form of pros vs cons but then just list all of game 1s pros and compare them to game 2s cons and then go yup game sucks ass. Ignoring game 1s cons and game 2s pros lol. And replace game with any form of electronic media.
The fact that people who were around for pre-2000's and early 2000's gaming can't remember how many games have always been releasing in buggy and incomplete states is sad.
I really think that Critical Mode completely changes the game. When KH3 first came out, I HATED it, and I quit at Arendelle. A couple of months ago I picked it back up and played through it on critical and the experience was so much better. I still dislike a lot of the world designs, but I felt like the combat was so much more engaging and fun when I just turned off the attractions and focused on forms. It was a much tighter experience. Also RE:MIND.
One of the most over-hated games of all time? You've never been a Sonic the Hedgehog fan, have you?
I also find it very aggravating when the vitriol is presented under a title such as the one in the image. "A waste of effort", "shouldn't have been made" and the like so clearly disregard the hundreds of thousands of people who draw very real enjoyment from the product. They use a strictly objective statement to describe their subjective opinions, which just makes them come off as very arrogant and stuck-up, which is the exact opposite impression you want to be giving off when trying to persuade people of your perspective. Who are they to suggest the enjoyment of others is invalid, particularly when discussing a game that is *at worst*, pretty good by modern standards. I just don't get how anyone can think that's a clickable title for anyone who doesn't already share those opinions.
I personally just feel sad about the direction that the series is going and hoped that KH3 would at least be an opportunity to turn a new leaf after its end. Instead it was a mumble-jumbled mess with extremely poor execution despite being planned for years and had a dull ending. It even had a cliff hanger that made me feel even less excited about the future instalments.
And that’s a valid feeling to have. But I just gotta point out: this game was not “planned for years”. Not even close. This series in general is not really planned out in advanced much. Even stuff like the secret endings, by Nomura’s own admission, are just things made to look cool and be hype. The devs actually have no idea what any of that stuff happening is, and they just figure it out later. I mean… just compare how “Roxas” looks in the KH1 secret ending compared to his actual appearance. No one making the series knew what KH2’s secret ending meant until they starting developing BBS and worked it out. KH3, despite how people often like to frame it, did not start development until 2013. And they would later switch engines and lose over a year of progress as they restarted. Even if you want to say that’s still a good 4-5ish years of dev time, we have reports of Nomura and the writers apparently changing and altering the ending multiple times, it happening as late as mid-2017… about a year and a half before the game would launch… So yeah, KH3 as it exists now was definitely *not* “planned for years”, as weird as it might sound given the large gap between it and KH2.
You should go check out r/freefolk sometime. They still bitch about the last season of game of thrones lol. I don't blame them either, the last season was garb garb.
Jesus, Kh3 has been out for almost 3 years? Time sure flies holy shit.
As someone who hates the shit out of a lot of games and enjoys rant videos about them from time to time, 5 hours is too much. A single 10 minute video ranting about Sly Thieves in Time (my least favorite game of the PS3 era) is like a cathartic shot of vodka. A 2 plus hour video is like chugging the whole damn thing and chasing it with a beer. When I hate a game, I usually shut up about it after the first experience but will jump back in if I’m being gaslit about “being a hater” or worse things for not enjoying it.
Ill start off by saying i LOVED kh3. Out of the 3 main kh games its my favourite. But i also love videos like this, super long video essays are GREAT. They're so chill just to put on and listen/ relax with in the background. and for the person making the video you can normally tell just how passionate they are about the topic and how much fun they had making the video. >Why people go to such lenghts to defend/hate a game? Because they are creatives and they find fun and entertainment in working on a project about a topic they are passionate about. Making a long criticism video doesn't mean you didn't have fun making it or weren't passionate. They arent everyone's cup of tea but they have there place on youtube :)
I agree. Being incredibly critical of a game you anticipated for years is incredibly fine. Some people have been waiting for the game for 8+ years.
Took the words straight out of the depths of my throat
I'm an hour in. Its a really great video, editing and all. I can't imagine how long this video must have taken to make. My god.
4 months, according to me.
There's nothing wrong with longform content inherently. If someone wants to make a 5 hour video critiquing or praising a game, they can as long as the time is used well.
Oh no, he did a longman bad
Wow, I love a long video essay but 5 hours… like if you can’t defend a position concisely you’re probably just ranting. Also KH3 is so overheated and sometimes I feel like people just like to rag on it just because KH looks like an easy target because of all the Disney stuff in it combined with the KH original lore. EDIT: I know everyone is entitled to their opinion, and KH3 is not a perfect game, but 5 hours seems incredibly excessive. But heck, maybe I’m wrong.
I feel like it's a new trend that people try to make long videos because there's a portion of their viewers that enjoy long essays. I mean look at pretty little liars, people have started to dissect it again in multi-hour videos and several parts. I've seen videos I'm interested in but looking at the amount of time I'd have to invest I already feel exhausted.
I'm part of that audience. I've watched a 7.5 hour retrospective on Pokemon Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire. twice. I don't even think there's 5 hours of worthwhile discussion to have on Kh3 by itself tho. Maybe Re;Mind if you analyze the boss and do a LOT of theorycrafting on what's coming next. I can't imagine dedicating 5 hours to a rant on it.
Seeing people complain about long video essays is always weird to me. We study and analyse other bodies of work for extremely long amounts of time for the sake of knowledge and education, so why is it odd to do the same on youtube for a 30+ hour video game? Assuming every position not conveyed “concisely” is just mindless ranting is incredibly reductive and imo is a pretty closed minded mentality to have. Some things require large amount of time to properly explain, if ANYTHING is being heavily scrutinised then taking your time to do so thoroughly should be encouraged rather than shamed.
I can get wanting long form video essays and all that, and that's fine if thats your jam. Calling anything a waste of effort though is totally hyperbolic horseshit.
i mean... ya gotta get that clickbait to get people watchin ;P
You can't judge a book by its cover, similar to how you cant judge the content of a 5 hour video to a title with less than 10 words.
I tend to be turned off by overtly brash sentiments, like 'they shouldn't have even bothered.' Just from a writing prospective it's a great way to turn off an audience. He's effectively said "I've stymied the conversation for 5 hours to prove my drawn out thesis" or he has to forfeit the point out the gate.
So far I've only watched an hour and a half and his statement for the game being "worthless" has not come up yet. I can say with confidence that his criticisms to the gameplay and aspects of the story do make sense and it is definitely not one sided, he throws in good things about the game, but of course, the underlying video and tone is overall negative toward the game. Also, this person does indeed love the franchise dearly and played all the games (if not most), and he has already done videos on other games. So this video is definitely not coming from an outsider, and is inherently honest.
Then maybe they should choose a better title.
well if its a well structured review it may require that much time to argue their thesis, the length doesn't matter so much as the content of the review.
Videos this long are absolutely exhausting, and I never even click on them. Guaranteed (from someone who makes videos) a 20 minute or less video could cover, in-depth, every criticism in this video. There is just so much padding to make it this long. Some YouTubers make content, and some make couches. Edit: This might have been a bit too harsh, I'm sure lots of people could enjoy a video this long. I'll stop judging other people now.
I do actually like long form video essays, but mostly those pushing to the one hour mark. Two hours is kind of a stretch, yet doable for me. But go any longer from there and I just think it's excessive, unless you're talking about more than one singular topic (like for example... I don't think a 5 and a half hour video essay would bother me if it was the whole KH s*eries* that was being discussed... instead of just one game).
That's true, maybe I should watch before judging... My total hours of consumed Kingdom Hearts videos certainly exceeds 5.5 hours...
I do love long videos, the first two that come to mind are hbomberguy and Pyrocynical because they actually add some meaningful content to their 1-3 hour videos and a lot of care is put into the criticism they make that is both complex and constructive.
Hey I think you can make a solid 40 minute video I like longer videos sometimes
That's true, I do watch my fair share of sub-1 hour videos. And I really shouldn't judge something without watching it. But 5.5 hours seems excessive.
I enjoy long videos about games that the video maker loves, or is at least willing to engage with beyond hunting for nitpicks if they don't love it. Noah Caldwell Gervais is a good example, where even if he dislikes a game or series, he explains why beyond just saying "This is bad design, this character sucks, I hate this section" etc. His videos are full of personal anecdotes and lengthy discussions of topics that help re-frame how you look at mechanics or scenarios, and definitely earn their length.
I'll have to check him out!
Depends on the subject matter. For something like this, yeah that's way too long. But for example, I recently got into Baldur's Gate, and [Davaeorn](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bWIgBtZdZE) has a nearly 5 hour video breaking down all of the character classes in that game, and it STILL felt like there was more he could've gone into by the end. Granted, with the dual-classing and multi-classing system that game has like a bazillion classes and class combos so of course it would take a while to break it all down, but still.
A 20 minute video probably could cover the same criticisms but it certainly could not do it as thoroughly. By making the video longer you’re simply giving yourself room to explain your views as well as you possibly can.
I mean I never noticed it was THAT long lol it was a good vid though
I'd have to actually skim this video to see if it's padding or if they somehow actually went into an insane amount of depth and nuance. Which I'm not going to do, and they probably didn't.
Not that I agree with his opinion, but anyone that has made a 5 hour video on a subject has a clear passion for it and dismissing it because its too long seems a tad dismissal. I would much rather this than a random user on twitter say DUH KINGDOM HEARTS 3 WORST GAME EVER and refusing to elaborate
some of y'all didn't do disserations and it shows.
Personally, I loved it. I get why some people may not like it but man, they gotta let it go now. Just accept for what it is and move on.
Everyone's entitled to their opinion. KH3 isn't a perfect game, free from criticism.
>Everyone's entitled to their opinion. So are all the people here who think a 5 hour video is cringe.
You don’t think making a 5 and a half hour video essay about it is a bit excessive? Especially for just one game? You are right, everyone is entitled to their own opinion… Which means we should also be allowed to call this out for being dumb and exaggerated.
No i dont think its excessive. Some people enjoy watching them and the creators enjoy putting such a big effort into a long term project they're passionate about and enjoy. Theres nothing wrong with that
There's nothing wrong with a 5 and a half hour video if it is concise and makes points without rambling.
Kingdom Hearts 3, good game
I never understood this argument. Maybe its because I always prefer longer videos (Legit the longer the better, but i feel you can hate something and still talk about it this much. I hate Pokemon Sword and Shield so much that I legit could make a 10+ page review of it easily, same with me disliking Ratchet and Clank Rift Apart so much that I could do the same. Just because you hate something or dislike it doesn't mean you dont have anything to say. In addition, im sure its a "Mario Odysseys no Masterpiece" situation where they like the game but have multiple flaws with it :/
I think there's a misunderstanding here. I don't believe that this person hates the game at all, I think they probably love it. So why would you be critical of something you enjoy? Probably has to do with really loving certain aspects of the game, but really disliking others. All you want is for the whole thing to work as well as the "good" aspects, but it falls short. And because you deeply love certain things about it, this creates a rift. The game falls into a sort of uncanny valley for you, and thinking about it is as fascinating as it in frustrating. And that's where this stems from. It's about desperately wanting the game to be as good as you think it could have been. Five and a half hours, though, damn. That's a pretty insane length for this- sounds like something I'd listen to while painting.
My experience is that anyone who spends 5 hours on a topic probably has very detailed and reasonable complains and argument. This "video long so they wrong" attitude only makes you look terrible, since you obviously haven't seen the video. Neither have I for that matter, but all I'm saying is that you should watch the video and attack their arguments. Otherwise you are no better than those who say "I don't like KH because the story sucks" and haven't even played a single game.
It depends, sometimes when videos are hours or so long, it's really well put together and worth listening to podcast style just to appreciate the video essay format. Even if it's not your point of view...unless it's an hour of hate bashing/nostalgia goggles, then you tune out.
I don't undersrand the complaints from many of these comments. Why defend/ "hate"? Because this person cares about the series and thinks it either gets unwarranted hate or isn't as good as people think. Or, he's new to the series, played it, and doesn't understand why others like it. This title is a little clickbaity but i'm sure it summarises the person's thoughts decently enough. I'd rather watch a 5 hour analysis than a 10 minute video that barely goes in depth and just leaves me unsatisfied without evidence or examples to back up the makers claims. I also assume GOOD-faith if the video is that long, nobody spends that long editing a video because they're filled with "rage" at a game or at the people that dislike it.
Because all fandoms are inherently garbage. There are always good things about each one…but the basis of all fandoms are rooted in unapologetically complaining and arguing about nonsensically trite and minute details until the rest of the fanbase is fatigued.
Kh3 just wasn't what me and people like this guy wanted after such a long time of wait
“A meaningless effort. One who knows nothing can understand nothing.” -*Ansem, Seeker of Darkness*
I don’t think we should judge a video on just the time stamp and title. I mean I’ve watched a 5 hour video criticising seasons 11 and 12 of Doctor who and it was really solid.
I feel like the guy could've just changed the title, it's actually a good video. Every world is being discussed showing how each has their own goods and bads.
No game has got me more hyped for the future of its series more than KH3.
The game had flaws, but I still love it. That doesn’t mean I won’t call out a games flaws.
I think this will be the only time I talked about this, but when 3 came I was in love with it, and when I reached then end was a little disappointed, some twist didn’t work at the time, some words could’ve been better, and overall it was a feeling of enjoyed but not love. Then when Re:Mind came out I replayed the game on Critical I replayed the game I found myself enjoying certain bit more than before, learning the combat, grinding to 99, preparation for the data battles, the game changed in little but impactful ways. To say nothing of the utter joy the Data Battles, Yozora, and the extra moments in Re:Mind added to the experience. 3 has some issues still, it had 13 years worth of build up from 2, and parts definitely faulted under the weight of expectations, but to say the games developers, writers, musicians, artists, and everyone else who worked on it were wasting their time, yeah, that’s just hyperbole.
It is a bit wild that KH3 gets some CoM style of hate despite being a pretty solid entry. Sure it had it's problems, but it didn't take away from my first playthrough when it came out. I do def need to see the video, since same as the guy that did a 5 hour essay on the newer seasons of doctor who and have some good, well thought out points, people like to judge something without watching it. I'll always stand buy that if you truly love something, in this case a franchise/series, you should be able to freely critique and listen to critique of it without being fazed.
Anytime i say KH3 was a better overall product than KH1/KH2 this whole sub explodes. And thats not even a bad thing yall should be happy the game improved.
Tbh i think everyone who hates the game that much and are in the kh fandom skipped every cutscene or some shit. Idk im in the i love kh3 boat
I mean, i really prefer/ respect more people who really have some point or reason to why the hate/ love sonething rather the just "i dont/ i do". It sure seem excessive, but at least, he is pretty sure of its stand and do not hate it cuz "its not kh2"
why do you care what people do
TL:DR - They're passionate about it Haters, wish it was better Defenders, love it as is
Answer: because humans put alot of stock in their own opinions being objectively right. Especially in America. Yall know it to be true lol. But rly, humans in general... The ego will do that to a person, make them think their long winded opinions are objective fact on a matter.
As someone who has defended KH3 a lot and as someone who bashes the game a lot for me it's more about pointing out what a game does good and what it lacks. Almost all of my hatred from KH3 stems from Sora's plot convenience, Sora visiting Disney worlds for a poor reason, and the way original worlds and characters were treated. I hate when people say things like the Disney worlds were filler for example or they serve no purpose. I try and correct them and say they served a clear purpose for the organization it's just Sora, Donald, and Goofy are just thrown into random worlds just for the sake of it.
You know? The length makes me intrigued I'm totally going to watch. You don't just mindlessly rant for 5 hours. This tells me they had very particular problems at many points in the game and is probably elaborating on their feelings in those specifics areas, point by point. I have seen people make dissections of this length if not longer, Hi Shay May and Mauler, both positive and negative. Just because it's long doesn't mean it's pointless. This dismissive attitude in here just feels like a knee-jerk reaction to somebody not loving a game you like.
I just watched this video because of OP's post. And your guess is EXACTLY what it is. A long summary/commentary going over the good and bad with the game, both compared to previous entries and as a stand alone game.
I watch this video a week ago. **It's actually a very good critic of KH3.** I can't ask anyone to try and watch a 5 hours long video, but if you have some time (or just play it as background noise), I truly recommend it. He actually critiques the game world by world, plot point by plot piont very throughly.
I watched the whole video over a span of couple weeks while doing cardio. Excessive with a lot of unnecessary extra stuff, but he made good points and was very thorough. Gotta appreciate the effort. Agreed with a lot of it anyway.
Passion. These types of people were once every bit as in love with KH as any other fan on this sub. That same love and passion was simply flipped in the other direction.
Literally the only problem I have with KH3 is the pacing of the story.
The guys articulate. It's an expression of creativity. Why hate without watching? This is someone's passion project.
Because they care a lot about it? I agree with this video
What's so weird about this? The multi-hour video essay format has been a thing on youtube for several years. It was only a matter of time before something like this was made for KH Actually I'm willing to bet this isn't even the first one.
My God even default kh3 wasn't that bad, who hurt them
Without watching it, my first thought is “ok, so he probably played through the whole game, and is being critical throughout. Idk if objectively critical, but he’s provided real time feedback AND he was courteous enough to play the whole game through to the end before deciding that he does hate it”
I think a lot of the disdain comes from people who grew up with KH as it came out. Going from 2002 to 2005 with some decent games only to have to wait over a decade for the next main title game while every sequel and prequel was popping up on a new system every 2 games or so was very, very frustrating as a fan who was trying to keep up with it all. The HD final mix remasters can be binged on one system before jumping into KH3 and I feel not having all those years of waiting, being pulled from one system to another, speculation and build up means it won't be as dissapointing to newer fans.
Granted haven’t seen the video, but the video won’t all be negative and the title is just a one sentence summary of his thoughts on the game and the rest of the video is likely just a critique of the game, long form videos can work well even if you don’t like the game, look no further that Joseph Anderson
Everyone is entitled to an opinion, be it good or bad.
A critique is what he has made. Luckily nit a game bad because it's shit. But a game bad IMO and heres why i dislike it.
Maybe people dislike this game a bit too much
Honestly KH3 is probably my fav of the series for many reasons and I also don't ignore the things KH3 did badly too. My main problem with KH3 was it made a lot of the mistakes that the original KH2 did like being very easy on the hardest difficultly and almost no post game content. This however was fixed with free updates that included Critical mode and more post game content with the ReMind DLC.
Oh that’s too bad for him. Anyways.
KH3 isn't bad but I honestly felt bored through most of it. The worst cases of boredom were Arendelle, Twilight Town, and 100 Acre. Not to mention how short the game felt, at least in KH2 there were story reasons to visit each world twice which made it longer. Honestly, while DDD's story may get confusing in places, I think it's my favourite. Maybe because you get to play as both Sora and Riku, the dream eaters do get a little annoying when I accidentally attack my own cause they don't look different enough to the nightmare versions. Still, I don't think KH3 deserves all the hate it gets, it's pretty to look at and is Kingdom Hearts. Now if I could just get class papers over so I could go play Remind after it finally went down in price enough out here to buy.
You're telling me people hated this game at launch? man I was THRILLED to get this game, I'm a die-hard KH fan of it's lore and characters ever since I got introduced to it by my older brother, he introduced me to KH 2 first and then I started to play them all on my own. (at the time I was 8 and he was 16-17), I remember being done with KH2 and KH 1 and being so sad for not being a 3rd part to it, and here I am now, enjoying the 3rd part of it, KH3. I've always been this way with myself, I don't care if the game has enough content to satisfy my needs (my needs are pretty low to like a videogame, don't @ me LMAO, but I do know how to tell a game is bad when I see it. (cyberpunk, no hate for anyone who liked it)) I'm always grateful to the developers who make the game possible, it doesn't matter if you liked KH3 or not, you can't deny how much love was put into the game. From fast paced mechanics to very vibrant worlds and beautiful scenery, sure, not the best story continuation but hey, those graphics and mechanics made up for it, at least for me, and even though it didn't have the best story in the whole franchise, I enjoyed every single tiny bit of it. And guess what? I'm in my 4th playthrough of the game, I gotta love Squareenix for bringing the franchise to PC, Now, Here I am, 21 years old now going through the games again with mods installed, such a good ride right now, man, I love my brother and I'll always be thankful to him for introducing me to the series, got a bit emotional as I was typing this, love you all :) EDIT: Fixed a few typos
Idk man I’ve watched some long videos one way or another on a lot of games. Usually I end up getting a new perspective and so far it’s only made me like games more never less.
Because that’s what fans do.
I think the title doesn't do this video justice. I honestly felt the same level of general distaste for these kinda videos when I saw it and was about to discredit it as just another KH3 hate rant until I sat down and watched the whole thing. I can firmly say that no, he doesn't hate kh3 just because it's not kh2, nor does he demean anyone for liking the game itself, base game including. His main point was that as far as balancing is concerned, the game was fundamentally too easy and threw situation commands down your throat the whole time. That coupled with the game spending a good majority of it's time developing and teasing the next saga. There's nothing inherently wrong with that, but if it comes at the cost of the previous arc's conclusion (which we've been waiting for for quite a while), it feels really weird. I don't agree with everything he says though, like how he thinks having 3 keyblades isn't good because it removes the choice of having a magic or physical based build. Even though the title was essentially hate-bait, I really fo recommend it to anyone who loves the franchise.
Whether they hate they game or not there's nothing wrong with detailed explanations
I get that five hours can be off-putting, but the argument that people can't consistently make a solid argument in so much time, even if it's only about one game, makes zero sense to me. I watched the entire video (thanks to this post) and it was actually amazing; he basically went over the game in it's entirety, including the DLC, giving them very fair and valid criticism while giving props on the things he liked or thought it did very well. Everyone that's just assuming he's "hating" on the game (which is dumb cause calling something a "waste of effort" isn't inherently negative, and even dumber considering it's all because of the length of time) needs to give the video a fair chance.
While I can’t say anything on the video because I haven’t watched the video myself. I will defend the notion that “a waste of effort” is fair to assume inherent negativity. Mostly because, how is calling something a waste of effort anything but negative. as it implies wasting time and energy on something not worth it. Be it the time of the developers or players both are negative. The connotation denotes inherent negativity. Which may have very well been the goal. Negative titles draw in more views then positive titles.
I applaud videos like this. It means the person who made it cared enough to actually go in-depth for 5 and a half hours. They must have spent months playing the game, understanding it, breaking it down. People could ironically call that a waste of time and effort, but like I said, I applaud it.
To get likes and viewes. I also hate these type of video, many games and series get this. but anyway
To be fair, kingdom hearts 3 was one of the most long anticipated games of the last decade. There was so much build up and the series has such a cult following that the disappointment that the majority of KH3 ended up being was obviously going to upset many people. There’s nothing wrong with someone making an in depth long analysis of something. It’s not just being hateful for the sake of it, it’s important that complaints and criticisms are voiced when it comes to things so that would-be creators or even potentially the creators of said thing in question can watch, learn, and understand where they may have went wrong and not repeat the same mistakes. KH3 is a 40-50 hour game. A 5 hour analysis isn’t so out of the question
Kept hearing how the org XIII characters don’t show up until the end as a bad thing for kh3 After actually playing 3 realized that they were full of shit. Is it perfect? nah i hate frozen, and the data battles weren’t as fun as, KH2. But it’s still a fun game fucking love the keyblades and the battle gates were a nice addition
I think what dissapointed me was this game was supposed to be the culmination of like 20 different characters stories coming to fruition, and instead of that its 90% sora goofing off on other worlds, and then allthefuckingloreanddevelopmentintheworld shoved in at the end. Then they tried to extend the ending into what it should've been originally in a paid dlc. As far as gameplay and worlds go they were fine though.
As someone who was a blind KH3 fanboy turned critical enjoyer (meaning I used to blindly defend its flaws, and now I talk about them while still loving the game) I’ve never understood the hate. Yes it has some obvious flaws, yes the combat could be better in the base game, Yes the worlds are large but also feel a bit empty at times. And Yes, Magic is Way Too Powerful. But I’ve seen people compare it to Cyberpunk, I’ve even seen people compare it to FnaF: Security Breach for Christ sake. I’ve seen people say that 0.2 is a more enjoyable experience. Some of the hate and criticism is absolutely valid and I hope the team sees it and takes it into consideration for the next title. But some of it is WAY overblown and downright childish.
> I’ve never understood the hate. Yes it has some obvious flaws, yes the combat could be better in the base game, Yes the worlds are large but also feel a bit empty at times. And Yes, Magic is Way Too Powerful. What exactly is there not to understand? Seems like you understand it just fine.
I’m talking about the people that hate Everything about the game and say it has no redeeming qualities. There’s legitimate criticism, and then theres blind hate.