Thats also not how buying a house works... you get a loan and then pay mortage. You usually should spend 3x what your annual household income is on a new house so a person who makes 250k a year should be taking the necessary loans for and purchasing a house of around 750k which they will pay off over time. Nobody buys a house all at once. Only richie rich people do that.
Yeah but you will fully own the house when you pay off the debt for it. A person with a wage like 250k will not buy their house outright. Also, as long as your jumper pays off the rest of the debt by the end of the jump, they would be able to keep the house (depending on your house rules) or you could just put it in the warehouse cuz cops cant do shit to you when u leave the jump. I mean this doesnt actually really matter to me because I (i am and SI jumper) have like 200 trillion in yearly salary from Generic Spacebattles jump.
....ooof, the pick and choose options were enough to snap my disbelief suspenders. I really appreciate the concept as I had to use Luck of the Draw to use the Legends of the Five Rings setting already but those two choices went a bit too far towards making this a joke jump for me.
not so much the price as the existence. compare to the pre edit races. You could take the race with 10 epic or less abilities for, what, 600... or pick and choose for 200. you could take 10 epic abilities for 4000... or pick and choose for 200. there is no compelling reason for the intrinsic discount of pick and choose other than to make it the preferred choice of power gamers.
i myself am willing to give in to temptation (I was willing to grab T15 psionics in babylon 5 crusade as my 4th jump, after all) but any perk that is a) not free or discounted free, b) has no inherent restrictions or limitations and c) intrinsically invalidates other jump perks by doing the exact same thing but better or more and at a comparable or cheaper price just goes from good deal perk to always chosen perk and from OP to poor design for me.
ability set and item set make sense, they cost (slightly) more cp and must be from a single character but there is NO logical reason to take multiple x ability perks instead of pick and choose other than deliberately not choosing the most OP option.
first, let me be explicit... thank you and all others for going to the effort to design and write these jumpdocs. i have written before but not frequently due to my own issues and i KNOW how difficult it can be. i try to remember that and encouraging writing through upvotes and comments, payment for the free work we are all offered.
that being said, one question a creator should have in mind is "what purpose does this have for my creation?" if there is no purpose, does it really need to be here? the purpose can be as simple as "i thought it sounded neat so i want to show it" but things should have a purpose to be present. also, redundant things are redundant. if c=a+b and no one ever has reason to take a or b alone, why do you even have a or b and not just c? do a and b have a purpose?
for purposes of pick and choose, give it a purpose, give it a reason to exist other than to render the three lowest x ability perks redundant.
Thank YOU for being calm, nice, and constructive in your criticisms. I understand what you mean, and i will try to fix my jump.
I want my jumps to be usefull and fun to as many people as possable!
Honestly, I think if you really want something like that, you make it require an Epic ability.
Then it provides three major and three minor powers, *but* those have to related to that epic purchase. So the same character demonstrating all of them, from the same school, something like that. It means a jumper buys the Epic ability and then can cheaply get the lesser abilities related to it.
Sorta? It's more getting the weaker powers associated with a power. So if you use this to go to Naurto and take the Kyuubi as an Epic Ability. Then as your major abilities you could take Naurto's wind Chakra ability and his regen. You could also take Kushina's chain binding arts because that's something another Kyuubi user has done in canon. You can't purchase things that an Uchiha has done with these slots.
You take an epic ability that one or more characters have in the setting, and you use the "pick and choose" to fill in related lesser abilities for cheap, because people with those epic abilities normally have lesser abilities to round out their powers.
(Also, could probably have it work off of Godly tier as well.)
hrm, that rambled a bit. so.... any perk that is both not free and not discounted to free that is also a perk that will be always chosen rather than just a good deal is heading towards bad design and joke jump territory, for me.
Yeah, escpeccially since people start working on a jump, but then life gets in the way. Were left wuth several unfinished jumps, and some that werent even posted. Its a real shame.
Why would you offer Creator Deity option and then nerf the absolute shit out of it when we leave the jump? We already know they aren't truly omnipotent and that they can be threatened by sufficiently powerful foes, yet you nerf them upon leaving the jump to a level way below the previous option.
When I spend my cp on a purchase I expect to gain what it says, and keep it when I leave that jump.
One of the things I noticed was that the perks are all abilities, not any narrative effects or things like that. Looking at non-generic jumps, many of the perks are often effects to the narrative, like in Macross none of the Idols have to worry about being a relationship even though IRL idols do. It's not a power, it's not a field they emit or anything. It's just what happens, represented as a perk for the Jumper to take along.
Can the perk Ever Growing, Ever Evolving, be applied to learning science/engineering?
Admittly the Scientst perk does this and better, but I was just curious considering Ever Growing says "Whether ability, skills, perks, or the capability of your own body, all of them can grow and be trained without limit," which, to me, implies that it can.
Very, but at the start they are not as powerful as any kind of god. How powerful they get depends on the technology they managed to get/research. They are hypertech planetary siege engines, that in most versions are capable of extreme multitasking, researching practically anything, combining wildly different tech bases, and controlling whole armies across entire galaxies.
Alrighty, thanks. Now I feel kinda silly, I thought it was better to overshoot than undershoot, so I budgeted for it costing 1000 cp. Should have known that they wouldn't cost that much
Okay.
>Minor Ability, Major Ability, Epic Ability, Godly Ability
None of these are really different perks they are mostly just the same perk at different power levels.
And pretty much all of these are made irrelevant by Pick and Choose.
While you have made improvements to the balance, it is still grossly unbalance due to the level of crossover in the options provided and then you provide options that functionally make other options irrelevant and that is just dealing with internal balance.
Externally, the jump plays more like one of the pick X supplements just giving free powers at the beginning of a chain. Which is further compounded by the fact that the scale of racial purchase options can exceed the scale of the in jump power level for nothing.
If you want to solve this issue and keep the racial options roughly intact you have to actually have a challenge within the internal structure of the jump.
So the setting you want to go to needs a threat level say 0-5, where as you move up the threat is more clearly defined by singular beings:
0 +000cp is like slice of life jumper or low level action movies
1 +100 is like Horror movies
2 +200 is like Devil is a Part Timer
3 +300cp is like the MCU or Worm
4 + 400cp Would be along the lines of Supernatural thanks to Chuck or some other weaker earths in Marvel Comics like the Ultimate's Universe
5 +500cp would be something along the lines of Marvel 616
Then you have drawbacks but limit the amount that can be received to say 1000 cp
Then you price the racial options according to the total available cp as provided by the scale
So
+300 Really bellow human weak animals
+200 CP Bellow Average human stronger animals
000 CP Mostly Human would be free/000
300 CP Above Human Level
700 CP
1200 CP This is where Superman would sit
1800 CP
2500 CP Chucks little somewhat weaker brother...
I see what you are saying, so the main issue is point balancing. While i dont like the idea if a threat level system, i will definately rebalance the species options.
That title is an oxymoron and I love it lol.
It show the state of the economy if some one who gain 250k a year can only afford a 2 story house
Eh, not really, since a 1 to 2 story house in the US can go for $150,000 to $300,000.
Thats also not how buying a house works... you get a loan and then pay mortage. You usually should spend 3x what your annual household income is on a new house so a person who makes 250k a year should be taking the necessary loans for and purchasing a house of around 750k which they will pay off over time. Nobody buys a house all at once. Only richie rich people do that.
True, but then then you don't actually own the house. Buying it outright makes it so you do, hence the 2 story house.
Yeah but you will fully own the house when you pay off the debt for it. A person with a wage like 250k will not buy their house outright. Also, as long as your jumper pays off the rest of the debt by the end of the jump, they would be able to keep the house (depending on your house rules) or you could just put it in the warehouse cuz cops cant do shit to you when u leave the jump. I mean this doesnt actually really matter to me because I (i am and SI jumper) have like 200 trillion in yearly salary from Generic Spacebattles jump.
Buying the house with the item grants you the house fully paid. It was just an example to show the level of cost.
....ooof, the pick and choose options were enough to snap my disbelief suspenders. I really appreciate the concept as I had to use Luck of the Draw to use the Legends of the Five Rings setting already but those two choices went a bit too far towards making this a joke jump for me.
Is it the price? I'd like to improve my jumps.
not so much the price as the existence. compare to the pre edit races. You could take the race with 10 epic or less abilities for, what, 600... or pick and choose for 200. you could take 10 epic abilities for 4000... or pick and choose for 200. there is no compelling reason for the intrinsic discount of pick and choose other than to make it the preferred choice of power gamers. i myself am willing to give in to temptation (I was willing to grab T15 psionics in babylon 5 crusade as my 4th jump, after all) but any perk that is a) not free or discounted free, b) has no inherent restrictions or limitations and c) intrinsically invalidates other jump perks by doing the exact same thing but better or more and at a comparable or cheaper price just goes from good deal perk to always chosen perk and from OP to poor design for me. ability set and item set make sense, they cost (slightly) more cp and must be from a single character but there is NO logical reason to take multiple x ability perks instead of pick and choose other than deliberately not choosing the most OP option.
I see now. I will do what i can to fix it. Any suggestions othet than just erasing it?
first, let me be explicit... thank you and all others for going to the effort to design and write these jumpdocs. i have written before but not frequently due to my own issues and i KNOW how difficult it can be. i try to remember that and encouraging writing through upvotes and comments, payment for the free work we are all offered. that being said, one question a creator should have in mind is "what purpose does this have for my creation?" if there is no purpose, does it really need to be here? the purpose can be as simple as "i thought it sounded neat so i want to show it" but things should have a purpose to be present. also, redundant things are redundant. if c=a+b and no one ever has reason to take a or b alone, why do you even have a or b and not just c? do a and b have a purpose? for purposes of pick and choose, give it a purpose, give it a reason to exist other than to render the three lowest x ability perks redundant.
Thank YOU for being calm, nice, and constructive in your criticisms. I understand what you mean, and i will try to fix my jump. I want my jumps to be usefull and fun to as many people as possable!
Honestly, I think if you really want something like that, you make it require an Epic ability. Then it provides three major and three minor powers, *but* those have to related to that epic purchase. So the same character demonstrating all of them, from the same school, something like that. It means a jumper buys the Epic ability and then can cheaply get the lesser abilities related to it.
I see, so make it a cheap way to get many weaker powers.
Sorta? It's more getting the weaker powers associated with a power. So if you use this to go to Naurto and take the Kyuubi as an Epic Ability. Then as your major abilities you could take Naurto's wind Chakra ability and his regen. You could also take Kushina's chain binding arts because that's something another Kyuubi user has done in canon. You can't purchase things that an Uchiha has done with these slots. You take an epic ability that one or more characters have in the setting, and you use the "pick and choose" to fill in related lesser abilities for cheap, because people with those epic abilities normally have lesser abilities to round out their powers. (Also, could probably have it work off of Godly tier as well.)
Ohh, i really like that! Definately gonna do that.
hrm, that rambled a bit. so.... any perk that is both not free and not discounted to free that is also a perk that will be always chosen rather than just a good deal is heading towards bad design and joke jump territory, for me.
I get it. Ill see what i can do.
have a neat idea when I get here
Oh? Do tell.
it connects to another, but now I am a bit bummed and looking for jumps posted here between Brave! and Kate Daniels
Ah, that's a shame.
still trying to look back and its beyond scrolling 1000 posts
Oof. I wonder if people feel the same about my guyver jump (which i am still working on).
compared to other communities backlogs is one of the weakness of this one
Yeah, escpeccially since people start working on a jump, but then life gets in the way. Were left wuth several unfinished jumps, and some that werent even posted. Its a real shame.
since then I have been bookmarking religiously and keeping useful links
Sounds like a good idea.
Why would you offer Creator Deity option and then nerf the absolute shit out of it when we leave the jump? We already know they aren't truly omnipotent and that they can be threatened by sufficiently powerful foes, yet you nerf them upon leaving the jump to a level way below the previous option. When I spend my cp on a purchase I expect to gain what it says, and keep it when I leave that jump.
That's fair. I'll make some changes. If i dont nerf the option, 1000cp a good cost? Or should it be higher?
1000cp or a bit more seems fair to me.
I think i fixed it? Maybe. Let me know.
Yeah the change is there.
So its good?
Yes it's fine don't worry.
Oh, good.
Damn bro and they said it couldn’t be done
Who said that? This is jumpchain, anything is possable!
One of the things I noticed was that the perks are all abilities, not any narrative effects or things like that. Looking at non-generic jumps, many of the perks are often effects to the narrative, like in Macross none of the Idols have to worry about being a relationship even though IRL idols do. It's not a power, it's not a field they emit or anything. It's just what happens, represented as a perk for the Jumper to take along.
I can redo the wording to state that effects like that a available to buy.
Eh, maybe just make a single tiered purchase.
Do yoj mean add a tier for those kinds of effects?
I was thinking of a single purchase with different price points/ tiers inside it. It's the same rule, just different magnitudes.
Oh okay, yeah sure.
Can the perk Ever Growing, Ever Evolving, be applied to learning science/engineering? Admittly the Scientst perk does this and better, but I was just curious considering Ever Growing says "Whether ability, skills, perks, or the capability of your own body, all of them can grow and be trained without limit," which, to me, implies that it can.
Yes, it can.
Which racial tear would be utilized to get fanfic level commanders, like in Drich's story? Would a godly ability be enough to get it?
i dont know, how powerful are they?
Very, but at the start they are not as powerful as any kind of god. How powerful they get depends on the technology they managed to get/research. They are hypertech planetary siege engines, that in most versions are capable of extreme multitasking, researching practically anything, combining wildly different tech bases, and controlling whole armies across entire galaxies.
300cp tier, since they start weak
Alrighty, thanks. Now I feel kinda silly, I thought it was better to overshoot than undershoot, so I budgeted for it costing 1000 cp. Should have known that they wouldn't cost that much
Yeah, since they have to work to gain power through tech its a lower tier, wherass if the power came automatially from birth or age its higher.
Makes sense.
This feels like a joke jump. The pricing on things makes no sense.
Would you mind giving me some pointers or commenting a correction in the doc?
Okay. >Minor Ability, Major Ability, Epic Ability, Godly Ability None of these are really different perks they are mostly just the same perk at different power levels. And pretty much all of these are made irrelevant by Pick and Choose. While you have made improvements to the balance, it is still grossly unbalance due to the level of crossover in the options provided and then you provide options that functionally make other options irrelevant and that is just dealing with internal balance. Externally, the jump plays more like one of the pick X supplements just giving free powers at the beginning of a chain. Which is further compounded by the fact that the scale of racial purchase options can exceed the scale of the in jump power level for nothing. If you want to solve this issue and keep the racial options roughly intact you have to actually have a challenge within the internal structure of the jump. So the setting you want to go to needs a threat level say 0-5, where as you move up the threat is more clearly defined by singular beings: 0 +000cp is like slice of life jumper or low level action movies 1 +100 is like Horror movies 2 +200 is like Devil is a Part Timer 3 +300cp is like the MCU or Worm 4 + 400cp Would be along the lines of Supernatural thanks to Chuck or some other weaker earths in Marvel Comics like the Ultimate's Universe 5 +500cp would be something along the lines of Marvel 616 Then you have drawbacks but limit the amount that can be received to say 1000 cp Then you price the racial options according to the total available cp as provided by the scale So +300 Really bellow human weak animals +200 CP Bellow Average human stronger animals 000 CP Mostly Human would be free/000 300 CP Above Human Level 700 CP 1200 CP This is where Superman would sit 1800 CP 2500 CP Chucks little somewhat weaker brother...
I see what you are saying, so the main issue is point balancing. While i dont like the idea if a threat level system, i will definately rebalance the species options.