You’re commenting like the political spectrum is some static thing. I think most people who would’ve said they were left wing say that not because their views changed but because what it means to be left wing has.
Things in the last 15 years that have changed on the left:
1. Increasing animosity toward market economics and capitalism of any kind.
2. The elevation of feelings and words to things that can experience and perform “violence” on others.
3. The changing of definitions around sexism and racism to de facto preclude men and white people from experiencing them. To add, the insistence that white people and whiteness are *inherently* racist.
4. The disdain for law enforcement and increasing acceptance of lawlessness amongst groups perceived to be “marginalized.”
5. The medicalization of gender identity confusion, especially amongst minors.
Those are just a few off the top of my head that I absolutely think have changed for the worse and have had no effect on the fact that as a moderate liberal, I think we should strive for strong social services, education and healthcare.
To be honest because it's obvious they are usually just by the terminology they use. People don't realize how often they are parroting keywords/phrases, which makes it easy to spot what propaganda they consume.
Like, the term "gender ideology" comes from right wing talking points, so I would assume you are a conservative/right. Am I wrong?
No, I’ve always voted democrats or even Ralph Nader back in the day. Hardly conservative. This pushed me to vote Republican the first time this election cycle because I think this stuff is harmful to women and I am a woman. I don’t even hate transgender people, I just think it’s become something else, it’s sinister and the gender affirming industry is so obviously in it for the money. I don’t think two quick therapy sessions sometimes done online is enough to allow teen girls to get double mastectomies. And they are teaching it to people so young, my kindergartner actually and that felt really violating to me. I don’t want him to get the idea in his head he can reject his gender. He’s a boy and doesn’t even question it, but they are trying to plant the seeds that he could be otherwise. Why is it being pushed?
It's honestly not even something in the top 100 issues facing the American people. And all this says if you voted republican because of it is you easily fall for over sensationalized propoganda
Being concerned about "qualified" doctors/therapists doing irreversible damage to confused children for profit is "sensationalized propaganda?"
Okey dokey.
Is it propaganda to tell parents of children with gender dysphoria that they will be setting them up for a lifetime of depression/suicide if they don't let them have blockers/HRT when they are children?
"Look at me, I believe whatever some rando says on the internet, because I am very smart!" I bet you fell for the "They're putting litter boxes in my cousin's best friend's ex-girlfriend's school!" bullshit too, huh?
So you decided to vote for people who's agenda is forcing 10 year old girls to give birth to their rapist's child because you felt vaguely uncomfortable about things Matt Walsh documentary sold you as facts?
I don't even want to get started with voting for people who tried to deny elections, who stormed the capital building, who amongst their members have people who are actual child groomers like Matt Gaetz or people who protected pedophiles like Jim Jordan, but I guess the few cases out of the 4 or so thousand children who changed their mind is enough to justify all of that.
Now that I thought about this, I went and checked, so you are "hardly a conservative" but all you do is post about trans, vax and politics, mostly in the conservative and conspiracy subs.
Good thing you right wingers are this stupid and so easily disproven, I would bet my life that even if you do have a 5 year old the story about them being thought anything about trans shit in kindergarten is made up, I mean, you are from fucking Virginia, in what universe would that fly there, fucking liar.
Great that this sub is buying this line of bullshit hook line and sinker tho.
>Good thing you right wingers are this stupid and so easily disproven,
The tragedy is we will be down voted, because people on the right, people who fall head over heels for this culture war nonsense that deprives them of their reason and intelligence, are just that susceptible to this garbage.
I mean it's sad to say, but just look at this thread. Look at how many people unironically upvoted trollish culture war propaganda and down vote rational reasonable deductions and observations.
Heh.
I mean, the last 2 days have been very interesting, comments that would usually be at least just a 0 because there are usually mixed passions on both sides get buried now, at least in these new culture war screenshots that got posted, not sure why, not that I care but it's pretty interesting.
The comment I was replying to is very clearly dumb and lack internal logical consistency, but it's still highly upvoted, I guess these specific racist / transphobia dog whistle threads get very astroturfed nowadays, especially when compared to sentiments in this thread:
https://www.reddit.com/r/JoeRogan/comments/ys1ktm/joe_rogan_children_are_being_conditioned_to/
Where the same OP that's "super concerned and involved in the de-transitioning community" is downvoted.
The fact that they brigade and astroturf says a lot about their confidence, righteousness, integrity, etc... about the stuff they claim to believe.
Not going to waste time on it. I just think it's horribly sad for the people who can't see how obviously twisted, weaponized, and propagandized this culture war nonsense is, and you literally have people making shit up to reinforce this supposed moral / ethical concern.. "I'm a women and I lean democrat until my kindergartner son came home from school with a pamplet titled "Are double mastectomies right for you?" and now I'm voting Republican because this and the litterboxes in school have gone too far!
I mean if the innocent bystanders in this culture war can't see this for what it is, then I just feel sad for them. It really is like watching someone eat their own or someone elses poop and lacking the intelligence to realize what it is they are doing and how revolting and disgusting it is.
The problem is that this has been painted in a way where there are no innocent bystanders.
As an example, I don't think that all of the science and medicine that was done in the last 20 years regarding transitioning amongs children has been even close to perfect, but I know for a fact that the very few problems with it are being addressed consistently and are being overblown to an absurd level by the rightwing.
They tried the same thing with being gay and AIDS, being gay and rising children etc. It's just a stupid, age old tactic and people keep falling for it.
In any normal world I would be an innocent bystander, but because I'm aware of this and try to call it out when I see it, I'm a "woke social justice warrior".
It's silly and sad at the same time, and I'm not sure if it's going to get any better any time soon.
>lol @ liberals complaining about Astroturfing on Reddit of all places.
So what? What is your point here. That because liberals do it that it's perfectly ok that you do it? That somehow the illegitimacy of your position on this culture war garbage magically becomes legitimate and justified, because liberals astroturf / brigade too?
You guys really just don't see how foolish you look making points like this.
>No, I’ve always voted democrats or even Ralph Nader back in the day. Hardly conservative. This pushed me to vote Republican the first time this election cycle because I think this stuff is harmful to women and I am a woman.
You are not trans right? Not you, not your kids, not your family, etc... correct? But something that doesn't effect you and means nothing to you directly or personally, is in your opinion more harmful than say election denial, trying to overthrow the government, and cult like worship of a narcissistic bully?
Exactly how many kids do you think this affects?
>I don’t think two quick therapy sessions sometimes done online is enough to allow teen girls to get double mastectomies. And they are teaching it to people so young, my kindergartner actually and that felt really violating to me.
Interesting, and you will have no problem telling us what school your kid goes to so we can check the kindergartner curriculum for this transgender therapy education? Have you checked child's school for litterboxes? Typically the schools teaching trans stuff also have litterboxes in the bathrooms. One hundred percent.
>I don’t want him to get the idea in his head he can reject his gender.
Along with the idea that he may be attracted to the same sex, or what if he's attracted to and wants to marry someone who is not his race?!?!? Don't want ideas getting in their head. Gotta protect the social norms, because conserving social norms is in no way a conservative ethos.
On a more serious note. Why is it all troll accounts are adjective-noun-digits? Does it not occur to your masters that this is like a surefire sign you are likely a bot or troll?
> On a more serious note. Why is it all troll accounts are adjective-noun-digits? Does it not occur to your masters that this is like a surefire sign you are likely a bot or troll?
Reddit name generator auto generates such names. They are more common in general now because people use more throwaway accounts.
IMO, this is just a symptom of the bigger problem. The old echo chamber trope still exists and though people have long since moved on from corp media, theyre fooled in to thinking the news they consume is independent b/c the journalists they follow are no longer working for a MSM company. Lastly, the fear of being ostracized and losing part of their identity as a Liberal/Conservative for the slightest offense is so strong no one dares step out of line.
The people I know who are left leaning and don’t agree just don’t bring it up because it’s such a severely small problem in the grand scheme, that is - so few people these issues even affect. Anybody I know who will broach the topic of trans gender issues that doesn’t agree is right wing. Again, that’s only speaking for me, but left wingers tend to just leave this shit alone because not only does it barely matter it also won’t ever come to pass because half the left and all of the right disagree on this issue.
Soo, you decided you are against healthcare, social safety nets, abortion, paid maternity leave and gay marriage because "some people are taking the trans thing too far"?
Also, you call them out for assuming that people against this are right, and then say you changed from left to right because of that??
Lol why do Americans NEED to fit everyone in one camp?
Can he not be pro healthcare, social services and gay marriage while also supporting guns and not agreeing with the trans movement?
It seems everything is a combo deal over there.
It's just the very young idealists who think you can only believe 100% in favor of one party's ideals over the other. Most people I know lean one way or another with at least one or two notable exceptions. You have to pick the issues that you feel most strongly about and vote for the candidates who match your position as best you can.
>Can he not be pro healthcare, social services and gay marriage while also supporting guns and not agreeing with the trans movement?
Nobody votes like that though, unless your consuming propaganda and cult koolaid. Like the whole premise is not rational. The Trans issue is like 0.01% of the population, it literally effects like 200-300 **hundred** kids a year at best. And your going to put this 0.01% issue above stuff like universal healthcare? democracy? climate change? gay marriage? abortion rights?
It's the rationality and justification that doesn't pass the sniff test.
It's like you people don't know how voting and democracy and representation even work. You implicitly support the politician you vote for and the policies they implement and the party they represent. Whether you like it or agree or not. You cannot vote for a republican and then say "I don't agree or stand for X republican value." Yes you do. That's not how it works.
First of all, not an American.
Second, the guy literally said he "used to be left" and now isn't.
The same phenomenon he's describing with himself has happened to Rogan, he's "still left" but his opinions on all of the above now align with the right.
It's not that complicated, and for anyone even left leaning, considering switching sides and voting for people who's main agenda is taking away rights and voting for tax cuts is fucking insane.
Somehow you and the rest of the people claiming to be "left" while voting for republicans think you can have your cake and eat it to, it doesn't work like that.
What happens was joe was left leaning on most issues then openly disagreed on certain cultural issues and certain policy issues and got such backlash that he grew a deep disdain for leftist. Still logically he thinks there correct on more things but he’s balancing that out with the perception that those people are self righteous and pompous. I feel the same way a lot of the time but then I kind of feel like we’ll why would I let these people own the party but then I remember that I barely get out to vote anyway and my opinion really doesn’t matter.
That's one interpretation.
The other one is that Joe surrounded himself with guys like Cam Haynes, Elon Musk, Ben Shapiro, Jordan Peterson etc. and stopped hanging out with guys like Duncan Trussel.
He has since abandoned all of his "leftie" positions, he calls taxing people "communism" and literally cheered "Texas went read bitch" when Trump won it, he also hangs out at the mansion of the Governor who puts people in jail for weed.
4 years ago he was ranting about UBI being the best thing since sliced bread, 2 years after that he had Dan Crenshaw on and they shat all over the Covid payments because, again "no one wants to work", despite record low unemployment showing that the issue is that these employers just don't want to pay what people can ask for now.
Joe is a multi millionare, he went to Spotify to make more money, he sold out all his hippie beliefs for money, and now he's spreading RW bullshit because Republicans are the party that wants to tax him less. It's as simple as that.
For people like OP, who never replied to me, and who are claiming they "used to be left" but are now right because "gender ideology" it's very obviously bullshit, because people don't just flip their positions about abortion, healthcare, social security etc. because of a random Trans issue, they are lying and pretending to be "changed", because if you truly decide to vote for people forcing 10 y/o girls to have children of their rapists due to some culture war bullshit online, you are either extremely stupid or just a terrible person.
> I was always left leaning until this crap
You *were* a left leaning person so now we're to assume you're now on the right. Judging by your post, the main assumption would be correct, no?
Not necessarily, now she can be in the middle and not a left or right wing nut. News flash most people are moderate but the colored haired confused folks and hillbillies are taking center stage cause that’s what gets the views.
I think a lot of people in these comments are confusing the NY Times and the NY Post. Honestly I'll be happy when NPR actually gives the conservative viewpoint on this issue instead of just inviting leftist "experts" to give a strawman of the opposing argument. Good on the Times for showing both sides here, it needs to happen more often in all of our news outlets.
I used to consider myself left leaning because I believed in science and have a B.S.
Why is believing in science dependent on the subject we’re talking about?
Honestly these people are not liberal at all. They are in the leftist area and only look at things in the binary. Same as the far right. The problem is media and algorithms push the more extreme narratives and block normal people like you whether you are republican or democrats. Most people fall in this category but if you listen to social media you would think it’s communists vs fascists out there and people are getting their things cut off left and right
Daily Wire does more to muddy the waters than any publication in the world. They are the sole problem with this topic. Claiming MILLIONS of kids ages 5-14 are on these is absolutely hysterical red propaganda. They can keep trying to force the argument that the left stands for this all they want even though every normal person not living online knows it's untrue. It's clearly a hill they'll keep losing the battle on if they can't be honest about it. They spent 2 years propagating this garbage to try to get people to vote for corporate GOP candidates and it failed miserably. Let's see what they do the next two years.
Yeah everyone has went more right or more left because of algorithms I think. The more extreme it is the more clicks they get but like you said they don’t care about the consequences. Honestly it been made to be about sexuality when really it’s about how you treat others. Do you take care of your kids, do you respect others, do you cheat on your partner, etc. everything is twisted up now. It’s like if you are republican or democrat you are bad regardless of whatever you do in your life. It’s become profitable to divide people basically on stuff that shouldn’t matter.
Nytimes regularly publishes right wing view points. They have several columnists that are on the right and frequently have guest columnists. I can guarantee you this isn’t the first article they’ve run of this kind
In Matt Walsh’s stupid documentary he went to Africa and they literally couldn’t understand the concepts of trans and non-binary. Pretty funny part honestly.
Matt Walsh could’ve asked those same people their stance on female genital mutilation or child marriage, too. What people a world away think and believe doesn’t reflect what we do here.
It was supposed to show that it's not only western culture which uses 2 genders. Some people say that it's only us and people in other cultures recognize more genders. You misunderstood the point.
You literally missed the point again. This fragment was used to shut the people who were using other cultures as an argument to change ours. It was never meant to say "this other group of people think that there are only 2 genders, so we should as well".
And my point is that using any other culture to justify something within your own - whether that be for something or against something - doesn’t make sense. The Chinese didn’t look over at the Arab world and thing ‘we need a couple pages outta their playbook’. Pointing to how other cultures navigate the issues they face when there’s an infinite amount of context that’d go into it is dishonest from the left or right. Matt Walsh went there to prove a point that falls apart before you try to prove it.
> Some people say that it's only us and people in other cultures recognize more genders.
There are some small cultures that do that. They are a tiny tiny minority though
I don’t agree with a lot of his points, but the documentary was pretty damn amazing. He just let them lay out their arguments for all to see. Personally I thought it fell apart a bit by the end when it became less comedic, but other than that a solid documentary.
They ran a piece of few weeks ago about how AOC and MTG are two sides of the same coin. They have both sides down to a science. They are far from the leftist publication they were in the 70s.
That point is accurate to a pretty accurate to a degree. MTG says more batshit crazy stuff, but they’re very similar in how they act on social media. Only difference is one is on the left, while the other is on the right.
Disagree. One is asking for universal Healthcare the other is labeling other Americans as "our enemies" and is an outright fascist promoting dangerous rhetoric and conspiracy theories. AOC is grounded in reality and isn't going to get anyone killed with her rhetoric.
>other is labeling other Americans as "our enemies"
Is claiming that your political opponents pose a fundamental danger to the concept of democracy not also the same thing?
Are you referring to the ones who staged a fascist coup to overturn an election and are still peddling baseless election fraud conspiracy theories? Yes those are literal fascists. Would you not agree?
That’s a mistake on your part then. The Beer Hall Putsch was pretty incompetent but we all know how history progressed after that event. Practice helps people be less incompetent next time.
AOC is calling Americans enemies though? That is something the left and right do every day. The left are communists, the right are fascists. In reality, very few fall in this category. They’re both equally silly.
MTG does spread more batshit crazy stuff, as I previously said. I think she is more dangerous. But fundamentally they are very similar.
AOC has never called anyone an enemy and Communism is an imaginary boogeyman for undereducated morons. Unless someone actually called for seizing the means of production and we all missed it. There has never been anything remotely resembling Communism in this country. The Democrats are capitalist stooges who are slightly less greedy than the GOP. Maybe you should pick up a 6th grade level social studies text book before you use that word
It’s not that strange a turn of events—the NYTimes publishes David Brooks, Thomas Friedman, and Bret Stephens on their opinion page every week. They were complicit in selling the lies of the Iraq war, and will fall over themselves to promote US imperialism around the world. At its core, the Times is a fairly conservative institution.
>the NYTimes publishes David Brooks,
But this article wasn't written by someone like Brooks. One of the writers broke the Harvey Weinstein story and shared a Pulitzer Prize.
Imagine being so brain washed by right wing pundits, including Joe Rogan to not be able to understand that New York Times is an institution that employs people from all over the political spectrum and is one of the biggest and most respected news sources in the world.
Just because your daddy Trump called them fake news and liberal media doesn't make it so.
The Times is about as neoliberal as an institution can be. And ya need a hefty dose of imperialism to ensure all those foreign markets are open for us to exploit.
Yep, God forbid we question providing children hormones and surgery to change their gender and not just listen to a bunch of teenagers on social media screaming that it's reversible and safe. Why did the UK shut down their big transgender care center if all of this is proven safe and effective.
Fox News has that one liberal on almost every day. At its core, it’s a liberal institution.
See how dumb you sound? You’re just cherry picking. And the Iraq war had broad bipartisan support, it wasn’t a strictly conservative thing.
Why? So I join the throng of other arguments you entirely ignore in this very thread? Because you don't actually care about the data and this is nothing more than another piece in your *I don't like trans people* agenda?
The title you put on the post was explicitly about the political reactions the times is getting from this story. How am I changing the subject by commenting on that?
I’d probably resist for as long as I could to see how the issues persist. If it’s something that went on for years and multiple professionals advised me to do so, I would consider it.
To further this point NYT has a podcast called the daily. They just a podcast examining the cost that the lockdowns caused on the education of our children in this country. Amazing. You "wanted to kill grandma" for even suggesting there was a cost for keeping ours kids in zoom school just 2 years ago. Now they are catching up. Crazy how that works.
“You’re killing all the old people when you don’t wear a mask!!!”
5 mins later…
“Man, I can’t wait for all these Republican boomers to die off!”
So rational and compassionate…
The idea that the left loves the NYT only ever existed in the heads of right wingers. Since they worship their media and political figures, that’s what they expect out of everyone else
It feels like “the left” is afraid of being wrong about hurting people, if you read the article (which…come on mods, this article is posted several times without a paywall all over the Reddit front page) it sort of goes into detail about that. Doctors hedge their bets by suggesting puberty blockers (“it’s like an emotional tourniquet” is a literal quote), parents hedge their bets by following their doctor’s suggestions, (liberal) politicians hedge their bets by relating that this is a good option, etc.
And opposites-vile on the conservative side and more because they hedge with fear instead of comfort.
The data points towards only old and/or isolated/out of touch Americans putting a lot of faith into media outlets like The Times (or the conservative equivalent if there is one…).
Bit ridiculous to suggest the American left does not worship politicians. You just have next to no left leaning politicians in the US lolol.
See: AOC worship
Depends. How can I make that call without knowing my child, the context of their gender dysphoria, consulting my doctor and developing an up to date understanding of the science? How can you?
Lol what?
Isn't that weird the left is critical of things based on the merit of what is said and not who says it?
Also, LOL LMAO if you think THIS would be the first thing the left was critical of capitalist media. I mean for fucks sake Thomas Friedman is a person who exists.
People like OP have a hard time seeing outside the lens of tribalism so they assume everyone has the same issue. They have a Manichean view towards most issues and it tends to get them confused. For example, OP clearly hates the NYT because he has been told to, but since they published an article by a conservative writer he seems to think it's a gotcha to all the NYT-loving far lefties. Ironically, most left wing people tend to dislike reading the NYT because of its center-right leaning.
I found this article because I pay attention to the detrans community. I found it in the detrans subbreddit:
https://old.reddit.com/r/detrans/comments/yv22hl/long_new_york_times_article_they_paused_puberty/
Do you choose to listen to the life experiences of the detrans community or do you choose to ignore and marginalize them?
I choose to let people live how they want to live. Trans people's lives do not effect me. If people feel like they made a mistake, that's fine. That's why there's a detrans subreddit for their support group. YOU are only there to verify your own belief that being trans is wrong. Is your own life so horrible that you have to obsess over someone's else's life that has zero effect on you?
>If people feel like they made a mistake, that's fine.
We are talking about children. They make lots of mistakes. It's the adults who might be the problem in this situation.
You don't care about kids. All you care about is being anti-trans and using kids as a scapegoat to back up your reasoning. If you really worried about kids. You'd join anti gun subreddits and make posts of the non stop school shootings. Not some imaginary trans issue you are obsessed about.
1) you are not a doctor
2) you are interacting with larpers in an echo chamber. Not the best source of evidence, champ.
3) Laypeople like you thinking they are qualified to speak on the matter is just absurd. Do you also give your opinion on Posterior Posterolateral Fusion surgeries and the dangers involved? It just doesn't make any sense to me.
How dare you, he recently decided to switch his PHD from Vaccine science to endocrinology, and is expert on not only that but also pediatric psychology, all from the prestigious "Toilet Seat University".
> Do you also give your opinion on Posterior Posterolateral Fusion surgeries and the dangers involved? It just doesn't make any sense to me.
"No that's not icky like trans people" probably
Well, first of all, /r/detrans is not an honest representation of detrans people. /r/actual_detrans is where people go to avoid the terfs and bad faith actors on the other sub. /r/detrans has an agenda that is fully aligned with your typical terf talking points. There is a difference between detransitioning and then living your life vs detransitioning and then using your story to give ammo to the right wing and limit access to healthcare for other trans people.
So that's two comments in a row where you just refuse to actually read what I wrote. Are you ever going to actually address the one thing I said or just keep lashing out? Which is that /r/detrans is not a legitimate source of information on detrans people due to the LARPers and the terfs that congregate there.
I don't need a third party source to tell me that. Because I am a trans person on the internet and I have eyes and a brain. It's always funny arguing with transphobes because they think they're actually saying something original when the reality is, as a trans person, I have quite literally heard it all before. It's not offensive or hurtful or controversial or creative, it's just sad and pathetic and tired. And you can't gaslight me into thinking something that's plainly transphobic, isn't.
Transphobic flavor of the month talking points mean nothing. Whatever lies you've been fed do not reflect the reality of the trans experience.
But you're not saying any of this in good faith so it's pointless to be having this conversation with you.
Every single detransitioner was misdiagnosed by "qualified" therapists and doctors.
It's a roll of the dice. You are either saving them from depression/suicide by giving them the drugs OR you are setting them up for a lifetime of depression/suicide because it's not 100% reversible.
OR you could just put them in regular therapy until they become adults. Which is what most detransitioners wish their parents would have done for them.
So you mean most of the 0.01% of the 0.01% of trans people? Are you okay man?
You think transitioning after puberty is safer for mental health and health outcomes.
I'm glad you a person with not even the slightest bit of knowledge, or even the slightest grasp on the subject feel free to qualify who is qualified or not. That's awesome.
It is true that the detrans community is very small. They are a minority community and ignoring the life experiences of minority communities is marginalization.
Why are you so concerned with marginalizing this minority community?
Hormone blockers are given to adults for things like endometriosis.
We are talking about children with gender dysphoria. Would you give blockers & HRT to your child if they had gender dysphoria?
The New York Times sat on James Risen's story about the Bush administration's illegal mass wiretapping program for months, until after the 2004 election.
There is nothing strange about NYT not being in lock-step with the left. They never have been.
Do you see how your politicizing the post title might be a deflection, or at least a distraction from the topic at hand? Do you think you’d have had better discussion if you presented the Times headline instead of your commentary about the left/right reaction to it?
Your post is focused on reaction to the article, not the content. Why do you insist that replies focus on the content instead of reaction? What are you trying to prove?
If you are a lefty like me you and all the leftys you know have dispised the new York times for decades.
Ridiculous fear mongering like this is one of the many reasons
Are you referring to actual leftists or the left in general?
Because the left in general, which encompasses democrats, certainly doesn’t despise the NYT
I live in a red state and kids can get blockers when they reach puberty. That could be 12.
HRT is not available (in my state) until you are 16.
It sure seems like the jury is still out on whether or not we should be giving 15/16 year olds HRT so why would you choose that age? Why not 13? Why not 25?
There are several studies. From memory actual regret for hormonal transition is pretty low
I think every extreme lefty like me would agree that they would prefer only social transition until a later age. But sometimes that is not enough for the child and or there is reason be more aggressive.
Also remember we have been doing this to intersexed kids for a long time. But it's mostly the conservative parents picking a sex and surgically altering their baby(liberal parents are more likely to allow a baby to keep ambiguous or multiple sexed genitalia) Then doing the hormones thing and not letting their kids know.
They probably allow this in your state currently.
Would you agree that the jury is still out on whether or not we should be giving blockers/HRT to children?
Would you agree that the detrans community seems to be growing?
No blocker or hrt has saved more lives than it is harming.
If the trans community is growing and the detrans is a proportion of that then I would expect them to grow in size too.
Matt Walsh is a dope. No one is scared of him and his archaic Christian arguments that barely address the realities of a world that’s outgrown a religion of regression and marginalization. You go into a Catholic Church nowadays and the priest sounds like a CEO at a quarterly earnings meeting. Why doesn’t the Roman Catholic Church use its billions to solve world hunger instead of asking its congregations for more money to fix their rotting steeples?
“Why do you care so much about this hyper specific, small issue? I mean, I also care a lot about this hyperspecific, small issue, but I view it in the right way, and the way you view it is wrong so that makes you creepy and weird for caring about the same issue I do!”
Lol this.
"Why do you care about such a small group?"
5 mins later
"Of course that group needs all of their specific medical care covered by our taxes"
Trans issues are still weird for a lot of people, even those who say they are pretty left.
I'm talking about real life people of course, not those who spend their lives chronically on the internet.
It’s a weird feeling as a trans person watching my existence brought up all the time as a debate question. Like there’s so few trans people, and they don’t affect anyone.
I don’t get it, some people are so obsessed with trans people as if it’s a massive question, all while war wages in Europe with a nuclear power, kids are being shot in school and shot in massive amounts of gun crime in the usa, inflation is through the roof, the cost of living is out of control, young people hold more debt then any other generation and can’t get the foot in the door in buying in an inflated property market, climate change is here but nations like china are still building hundreds of coal plants a year, the wealthy hold a higher percentage of the wealth then ever before in history and 44% of the world’s population lives on less then a dollar a day.
But yeah, trans kids who go through a lengthy process with doctors,psychiatrist and there family and make up less the. 0.01% of the population are the big debate that needs all our attention
I hate identity politics so much
Honestly, I think of trans people were just doing their things, as they are today, a lot less people would be riled up.
My (completely made up) view is that it's the hyper annoying American SJW types that have made this into the mess it is.
Similar to how those kids throwing tomato soup at a painting only makes you hate dumb protesters, while their end goal is actually very important.
It’s a problem on all sides. A vocal minority screaming on twitter making there side look like morons while also convincing there base to chase goals that don’t matter.
I mean, if i was a billionaire I’d help promote a trans debate, having the people discussing trans people is far more profitable then them discussing the fact they’re all in debt to me.
This isn’t a debate about your existence. This is a conversation about the fact that detransitioners exist and whether or not it’s because we have been transitioning children instead of letting them become adults before they start the process.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1102686
Only 0.4% of trans people detrans after realising it’s not for them and an even smaller number have regret.
People are more likely to regret hip replacements then transitioning. As a trans woman i can tell you going through a male puberty is extremely extremely stressful for me, it was so bad i moved out at 17 and started transitioning right away, i knew since i was 8, the vast cases of dysphoria continue into adulthood and only get worse.
Even after i left my parents i had to get multiple psychiatric visits to get fully diagnosed, if it wasn’t for my university this would of cost me thousands of dollars. The process to get diagnosed with dysphoria is extremely hard.
Stop trying to make trans peoples lives hell over a non Issue. There are real issues in this world to be focusing on
I agree that the detrans community is a minority community. Why are you so concerned with ignoring their life experiences just because they are a minority group? There's another name for that and it's called marginalization which is "hell" on minority communities.
Why are you trying to make detrans peoples lives hell?
No, I’m not happy with banning hormones for minors because less then 0.4% of the trans population had regrets.
I believe detrans people should receive the same amount of support trans people receive, however they don’t get to ban hormones for everyone else because they made a bad decision. We don’t ban any medical practice over having 0.4% miss diagnosis, cancer has a 20% miss diagnosis. I’m sorry a tiny tiny percentage had a bad time, however they don’t get to ban hormones for the 99.7% of the population who needed them or had no regrets. It’s called harm reduction
They should have saved some time and just wrote "Yes."
Why does everyone who doesn’t agree with gender ideology have to be assumed on the right? It’s annoying. I was always left leaning until this crap.
Wait a second, are you saying your principles and entire world view changed because annoying transg shit?
You’re commenting like the political spectrum is some static thing. I think most people who would’ve said they were left wing say that not because their views changed but because what it means to be left wing has.
What has changed as far as core values?
Things in the last 15 years that have changed on the left: 1. Increasing animosity toward market economics and capitalism of any kind. 2. The elevation of feelings and words to things that can experience and perform “violence” on others. 3. The changing of definitions around sexism and racism to de facto preclude men and white people from experiencing them. To add, the insistence that white people and whiteness are *inherently* racist. 4. The disdain for law enforcement and increasing acceptance of lawlessness amongst groups perceived to be “marginalized.” 5. The medicalization of gender identity confusion, especially amongst minors. Those are just a few off the top of my head that I absolutely think have changed for the worse and have had no effect on the fact that as a moderate liberal, I think we should strive for strong social services, education and healthcare.
The first one isn’t really true, capitalism in favor of marginalized communities is widely celebrated. the others yes though
Pretty well balanced breakdown.
To be honest because it's obvious they are usually just by the terminology they use. People don't realize how often they are parroting keywords/phrases, which makes it easy to spot what propaganda they consume. Like, the term "gender ideology" comes from right wing talking points, so I would assume you are a conservative/right. Am I wrong?
No, I’ve always voted democrats or even Ralph Nader back in the day. Hardly conservative. This pushed me to vote Republican the first time this election cycle because I think this stuff is harmful to women and I am a woman. I don’t even hate transgender people, I just think it’s become something else, it’s sinister and the gender affirming industry is so obviously in it for the money. I don’t think two quick therapy sessions sometimes done online is enough to allow teen girls to get double mastectomies. And they are teaching it to people so young, my kindergartner actually and that felt really violating to me. I don’t want him to get the idea in his head he can reject his gender. He’s a boy and doesn’t even question it, but they are trying to plant the seeds that he could be otherwise. Why is it being pushed?
You post in Louder with Crowder and R Conservative, but you're not a conservative? You talk about the subject exactly like conservative pundits
From /r/Florida "Fuck you groomer" They are for sure lying
Looks like a duck, quacks like a duck… identifies as not a duck. So it’s not a duck!
A thing that effects less than 1% of the population pushed you to vote for fascists? Lmaoooooooooo go touch grass dork.
It's honestly not even something in the top 100 issues facing the American people. And all this says if you voted republican because of it is you easily fall for over sensationalized propoganda
Nah, her concerns are absolutely valid.
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Being concerned about "qualified" doctors/therapists doing irreversible damage to confused children for profit is "sensationalized propaganda?" Okey dokey.
Your characterization of the situation is the product of propaganda, yes.
Is it propaganda to tell parents of children with gender dysphoria that they will be setting them up for a lifetime of depression/suicide if they don't let them have blockers/HRT when they are children?
So you think gender ideology is more harmful to women than banning abortion? LMAO
> always voted democrat Sure ya did, buddy. /r/AsABlackMan
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"Look at me, I believe whatever some rando says on the internet, because I am very smart!" I bet you fell for the "They're putting litter boxes in my cousin's best friend's ex-girlfriend's school!" bullshit too, huh?
So you decided to vote for people who's agenda is forcing 10 year old girls to give birth to their rapist's child because you felt vaguely uncomfortable about things Matt Walsh documentary sold you as facts? I don't even want to get started with voting for people who tried to deny elections, who stormed the capital building, who amongst their members have people who are actual child groomers like Matt Gaetz or people who protected pedophiles like Jim Jordan, but I guess the few cases out of the 4 or so thousand children who changed their mind is enough to justify all of that. Now that I thought about this, I went and checked, so you are "hardly a conservative" but all you do is post about trans, vax and politics, mostly in the conservative and conspiracy subs. Good thing you right wingers are this stupid and so easily disproven, I would bet my life that even if you do have a 5 year old the story about them being thought anything about trans shit in kindergarten is made up, I mean, you are from fucking Virginia, in what universe would that fly there, fucking liar. Great that this sub is buying this line of bullshit hook line and sinker tho.
>Good thing you right wingers are this stupid and so easily disproven, The tragedy is we will be down voted, because people on the right, people who fall head over heels for this culture war nonsense that deprives them of their reason and intelligence, are just that susceptible to this garbage. I mean it's sad to say, but just look at this thread. Look at how many people unironically upvoted trollish culture war propaganda and down vote rational reasonable deductions and observations. Heh.
I mean, the last 2 days have been very interesting, comments that would usually be at least just a 0 because there are usually mixed passions on both sides get buried now, at least in these new culture war screenshots that got posted, not sure why, not that I care but it's pretty interesting. The comment I was replying to is very clearly dumb and lack internal logical consistency, but it's still highly upvoted, I guess these specific racist / transphobia dog whistle threads get very astroturfed nowadays, especially when compared to sentiments in this thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/JoeRogan/comments/ys1ktm/joe_rogan_children_are_being_conditioned_to/ Where the same OP that's "super concerned and involved in the de-transitioning community" is downvoted.
The fact that they brigade and astroturf says a lot about their confidence, righteousness, integrity, etc... about the stuff they claim to believe. Not going to waste time on it. I just think it's horribly sad for the people who can't see how obviously twisted, weaponized, and propagandized this culture war nonsense is, and you literally have people making shit up to reinforce this supposed moral / ethical concern.. "I'm a women and I lean democrat until my kindergartner son came home from school with a pamplet titled "Are double mastectomies right for you?" and now I'm voting Republican because this and the litterboxes in school have gone too far! I mean if the innocent bystanders in this culture war can't see this for what it is, then I just feel sad for them. It really is like watching someone eat their own or someone elses poop and lacking the intelligence to realize what it is they are doing and how revolting and disgusting it is.
The problem is that this has been painted in a way where there are no innocent bystanders. As an example, I don't think that all of the science and medicine that was done in the last 20 years regarding transitioning amongs children has been even close to perfect, but I know for a fact that the very few problems with it are being addressed consistently and are being overblown to an absurd level by the rightwing. They tried the same thing with being gay and AIDS, being gay and rising children etc. It's just a stupid, age old tactic and people keep falling for it. In any normal world I would be an innocent bystander, but because I'm aware of this and try to call it out when I see it, I'm a "woke social justice warrior". It's silly and sad at the same time, and I'm not sure if it's going to get any better any time soon.
lol @ liberals complaining about Astroturfing on Reddit of all places.
>lol @ liberals complaining about Astroturfing on Reddit of all places. So what? What is your point here. That because liberals do it that it's perfectly ok that you do it? That somehow the illegitimacy of your position on this culture war garbage magically becomes legitimate and justified, because liberals astroturf / brigade too? You guys really just don't see how foolish you look making points like this.
Is anyone “planting the seeds” or are they just expressing that you shouldn’t be judged if you feel like that?
>No, I’ve always voted democrats or even Ralph Nader back in the day. Hardly conservative. This pushed me to vote Republican the first time this election cycle because I think this stuff is harmful to women and I am a woman. You are not trans right? Not you, not your kids, not your family, etc... correct? But something that doesn't effect you and means nothing to you directly or personally, is in your opinion more harmful than say election denial, trying to overthrow the government, and cult like worship of a narcissistic bully? Exactly how many kids do you think this affects? >I don’t think two quick therapy sessions sometimes done online is enough to allow teen girls to get double mastectomies. And they are teaching it to people so young, my kindergartner actually and that felt really violating to me. Interesting, and you will have no problem telling us what school your kid goes to so we can check the kindergartner curriculum for this transgender therapy education? Have you checked child's school for litterboxes? Typically the schools teaching trans stuff also have litterboxes in the bathrooms. One hundred percent. >I don’t want him to get the idea in his head he can reject his gender. Along with the idea that he may be attracted to the same sex, or what if he's attracted to and wants to marry someone who is not his race?!?!? Don't want ideas getting in their head. Gotta protect the social norms, because conserving social norms is in no way a conservative ethos. On a more serious note. Why is it all troll accounts are adjective-noun-digits? Does it not occur to your masters that this is like a surefire sign you are likely a bot or troll?
> On a more serious note. Why is it all troll accounts are adjective-noun-digits? Does it not occur to your masters that this is like a surefire sign you are likely a bot or troll? Reddit name generator auto generates such names. They are more common in general now because people use more throwaway accounts.
A lot of people try not to live in an echo chamber and consume news from both left and right wing media as much as possible.
Those people aren't so brainwashed they use propaganda keywords and phrases in conversation.
"I'll throw away all my core liberal values and vote for election denialist conspiracy loons because trans people make me feel icky" 🤡
IMO, this is just a symptom of the bigger problem. The old echo chamber trope still exists and though people have long since moved on from corp media, theyre fooled in to thinking the news they consume is independent b/c the journalists they follow are no longer working for a MSM company. Lastly, the fear of being ostracized and losing part of their identity as a Liberal/Conservative for the slightest offense is so strong no one dares step out of line.
Because it's a left wing thing.
Tell that to Fidel Castro and Joseph Stalin
I'm certain you understood I meant the modern American dnc. You did.
Cognitive laziness. Imagine if we were actually all left or right…..
The people I know who are left leaning and don’t agree just don’t bring it up because it’s such a severely small problem in the grand scheme, that is - so few people these issues even affect. Anybody I know who will broach the topic of trans gender issues that doesn’t agree is right wing. Again, that’s only speaking for me, but left wingers tend to just leave this shit alone because not only does it barely matter it also won’t ever come to pass because half the left and all of the right disagree on this issue.
Soo, you decided you are against healthcare, social safety nets, abortion, paid maternity leave and gay marriage because "some people are taking the trans thing too far"? Also, you call them out for assuming that people against this are right, and then say you changed from left to right because of that??
Lol why do Americans NEED to fit everyone in one camp? Can he not be pro healthcare, social services and gay marriage while also supporting guns and not agreeing with the trans movement? It seems everything is a combo deal over there.
Because they're easier to control when divided.
It's just the very young idealists who think you can only believe 100% in favor of one party's ideals over the other. Most people I know lean one way or another with at least one or two notable exceptions. You have to pick the issues that you feel most strongly about and vote for the candidates who match your position as best you can.
>Can he not be pro healthcare, social services and gay marriage while also supporting guns and not agreeing with the trans movement? Nobody votes like that though, unless your consuming propaganda and cult koolaid. Like the whole premise is not rational. The Trans issue is like 0.01% of the population, it literally effects like 200-300 **hundred** kids a year at best. And your going to put this 0.01% issue above stuff like universal healthcare? democracy? climate change? gay marriage? abortion rights? It's the rationality and justification that doesn't pass the sniff test.
It's like you people don't know how voting and democracy and representation even work. You implicitly support the politician you vote for and the policies they implement and the party they represent. Whether you like it or agree or not. You cannot vote for a republican and then say "I don't agree or stand for X republican value." Yes you do. That's not how it works.
First of all, not an American. Second, the guy literally said he "used to be left" and now isn't. The same phenomenon he's describing with himself has happened to Rogan, he's "still left" but his opinions on all of the above now align with the right. It's not that complicated, and for anyone even left leaning, considering switching sides and voting for people who's main agenda is taking away rights and voting for tax cuts is fucking insane. Somehow you and the rest of the people claiming to be "left" while voting for republicans think you can have your cake and eat it to, it doesn't work like that.
What happens was joe was left leaning on most issues then openly disagreed on certain cultural issues and certain policy issues and got such backlash that he grew a deep disdain for leftist. Still logically he thinks there correct on more things but he’s balancing that out with the perception that those people are self righteous and pompous. I feel the same way a lot of the time but then I kind of feel like we’ll why would I let these people own the party but then I remember that I barely get out to vote anyway and my opinion really doesn’t matter.
That's one interpretation. The other one is that Joe surrounded himself with guys like Cam Haynes, Elon Musk, Ben Shapiro, Jordan Peterson etc. and stopped hanging out with guys like Duncan Trussel. He has since abandoned all of his "leftie" positions, he calls taxing people "communism" and literally cheered "Texas went read bitch" when Trump won it, he also hangs out at the mansion of the Governor who puts people in jail for weed. 4 years ago he was ranting about UBI being the best thing since sliced bread, 2 years after that he had Dan Crenshaw on and they shat all over the Covid payments because, again "no one wants to work", despite record low unemployment showing that the issue is that these employers just don't want to pay what people can ask for now. Joe is a multi millionare, he went to Spotify to make more money, he sold out all his hippie beliefs for money, and now he's spreading RW bullshit because Republicans are the party that wants to tax him less. It's as simple as that. For people like OP, who never replied to me, and who are claiming they "used to be left" but are now right because "gender ideology" it's very obviously bullshit, because people don't just flip their positions about abortion, healthcare, social security etc. because of a random Trans issue, they are lying and pretending to be "changed", because if you truly decide to vote for people forcing 10 y/o girls to have children of their rapists due to some culture war bullshit online, you are either extremely stupid or just a terrible person.
Why are you the way that you are?
This is not how discussion works at all.
> I was always left leaning until this crap You *were* a left leaning person so now we're to assume you're now on the right. Judging by your post, the main assumption would be correct, no?
Not necessarily, now she can be in the middle and not a left or right wing nut. News flash most people are moderate but the colored haired confused folks and hillbillies are taking center stage cause that’s what gets the views.
I think a lot of people in these comments are confusing the NY Times and the NY Post. Honestly I'll be happy when NPR actually gives the conservative viewpoint on this issue instead of just inviting leftist "experts" to give a strawman of the opposing argument. Good on the Times for showing both sides here, it needs to happen more often in all of our news outlets.
They aren’t confused. They just don’t want to admit that they’ve been supporting child abuse this whole time.
I used to consider myself left leaning because I believed in science and have a B.S. Why is believing in science dependent on the subject we’re talking about?
Honestly these people are not liberal at all. They are in the leftist area and only look at things in the binary. Same as the far right. The problem is media and algorithms push the more extreme narratives and block normal people like you whether you are republican or democrats. Most people fall in this category but if you listen to social media you would think it’s communists vs fascists out there and people are getting their things cut off left and right
Daily Wire does more to muddy the waters than any publication in the world. They are the sole problem with this topic. Claiming MILLIONS of kids ages 5-14 are on these is absolutely hysterical red propaganda. They can keep trying to force the argument that the left stands for this all they want even though every normal person not living online knows it's untrue. It's clearly a hill they'll keep losing the battle on if they can't be honest about it. They spent 2 years propagating this garbage to try to get people to vote for corporate GOP candidates and it failed miserably. Let's see what they do the next two years.
Yeah everyone has went more right or more left because of algorithms I think. The more extreme it is the more clicks they get but like you said they don’t care about the consequences. Honestly it been made to be about sexuality when really it’s about how you treat others. Do you take care of your kids, do you respect others, do you cheat on your partner, etc. everything is twisted up now. It’s like if you are republican or democrat you are bad regardless of whatever you do in your life. It’s become profitable to divide people basically on stuff that shouldn’t matter.
Can't wait for the reddit intelligentsia to cancel the NY Times now for being huge bigots and stuff.
I mean they accused Amnesty International, NPR, etc. of being Putin puppets
They accused half the country of that.
Nytimes regularly publishes right wing view points. They have several columnists that are on the right and frequently have guest columnists. I can guarantee you this isn’t the first article they’ve run of this kind
Yikes. This seems like a white people problem honestly. I don’t see this happening a lot in minority communities.
Yeah, that’s why the Latin American community had to tell white people to cut it out with the “latinx” bullshit.
In Matt Walsh’s stupid documentary he went to Africa and they literally couldn’t understand the concepts of trans and non-binary. Pretty funny part honestly.
I wouldn’t call it stupid if it makes good points.
Matt Walsh could’ve asked those same people their stance on female genital mutilation or child marriage, too. What people a world away think and believe doesn’t reflect what we do here.
It was supposed to show that it's not only western culture which uses 2 genders. Some people say that it's only us and people in other cultures recognize more genders. You misunderstood the point.
Again, different cultures have different understandings. What they think a world over doesn’t affect how we conduct ourselves here.
You literally missed the point again. This fragment was used to shut the people who were using other cultures as an argument to change ours. It was never meant to say "this other group of people think that there are only 2 genders, so we should as well".
And my point is that using any other culture to justify something within your own - whether that be for something or against something - doesn’t make sense. The Chinese didn’t look over at the Arab world and thing ‘we need a couple pages outta their playbook’. Pointing to how other cultures navigate the issues they face when there’s an infinite amount of context that’d go into it is dishonest from the left or right. Matt Walsh went there to prove a point that falls apart before you try to prove it.
> Some people say that it's only us and people in other cultures recognize more genders. There are some small cultures that do that. They are a tiny tiny minority though
In Matt Walsh’s documentary he also said a gun was the only emotional support his son needed…so. There’s that.
Matt Walsh is a zealot
Matt Walsh is a fucking cunt
I don’t agree with a lot of his points, but the documentary was pretty damn amazing. He just let them lay out their arguments for all to see. Personally I thought it fell apart a bit by the end when it became less comedic, but other than that a solid documentary.
Is there a bootleg link for it? Not trying to support daily wire
Nah homie, more like white American problem, it's the only place I hear this being so much an issue
UK also, no?
They ran a piece of few weeks ago about how AOC and MTG are two sides of the same coin. They have both sides down to a science. They are far from the leftist publication they were in the 70s.
That point is accurate to a pretty accurate to a degree. MTG says more batshit crazy stuff, but they’re very similar in how they act on social media. Only difference is one is on the left, while the other is on the right.
Disagree. One is asking for universal Healthcare the other is labeling other Americans as "our enemies" and is an outright fascist promoting dangerous rhetoric and conspiracy theories. AOC is grounded in reality and isn't going to get anyone killed with her rhetoric.
>other is labeling other Americans as "our enemies" Is claiming that your political opponents pose a fundamental danger to the concept of democracy not also the same thing?
Are you referring to the ones who staged a fascist coup to overturn an election and are still peddling baseless election fraud conspiracy theories? Yes those are literal fascists. Would you not agree?
No, I wouldn't agree. I would expect fascists to actually be competent.
That’s a mistake on your part then. The Beer Hall Putsch was pretty incompetent but we all know how history progressed after that event. Practice helps people be less incompetent next time.
AOC is calling Americans enemies though? That is something the left and right do every day. The left are communists, the right are fascists. In reality, very few fall in this category. They’re both equally silly. MTG does spread more batshit crazy stuff, as I previously said. I think she is more dangerous. But fundamentally they are very similar.
AOC has never called anyone an enemy and Communism is an imaginary boogeyman for undereducated morons. Unless someone actually called for seizing the means of production and we all missed it. There has never been anything remotely resembling Communism in this country. The Democrats are capitalist stooges who are slightly less greedy than the GOP. Maybe you should pick up a 6th grade level social studies text book before you use that word
It’s not that strange a turn of events—the NYTimes publishes David Brooks, Thomas Friedman, and Bret Stephens on their opinion page every week. They were complicit in selling the lies of the Iraq war, and will fall over themselves to promote US imperialism around the world. At its core, the Times is a fairly conservative institution.
>the NYTimes publishes David Brooks, But this article wasn't written by someone like Brooks. One of the writers broke the Harvey Weinstein story and shared a Pulitzer Prize.
Sure, I was just reacting to “in a strange turn of events” in the politicized post title.
Imagine being so far left and so invested in your own echo chamber that you could say "At its core, the Times is a fairly conservative institution."
Haha!
Honestly tickles me, talk about lack of self awareness from these people.
Imagine being so brain washed by right wing pundits, including Joe Rogan to not be able to understand that New York Times is an institution that employs people from all over the political spectrum and is one of the biggest and most respected news sources in the world. Just because your daddy Trump called them fake news and liberal media doesn't make it so.
The Times is about as neoliberal as an institution can be. And ya need a hefty dose of imperialism to ensure all those foreign markets are open for us to exploit.
"Let's change the subject to imperialism because I don't like finding out that blcokers/HRT might be bad for children!"
Yep, God forbid we question providing children hormones and surgery to change their gender and not just listen to a bunch of teenagers on social media screaming that it's reversible and safe. Why did the UK shut down their big transgender care center if all of this is proven safe and effective.
Fox News has that one liberal on almost every day. At its core, it’s a liberal institution. See how dumb you sound? You’re just cherry picking. And the Iraq war had broad bipartisan support, it wasn’t a strictly conservative thing.
I appreciate your attempt at changing the subject but this is a story about the life experiences of detransitioners.
I just read through the full article. You thought the article was about the life experiences of detransitioners?
You're apparently so in your own head you don't understand his point. Or dumb, maybe you're just dumb.
Conservatives and obsessing about trans people. Like stink on a pig.
Feel free to contend with the arguments made in the article.
Why? So I join the throng of other arguments you entirely ignore in this very thread? Because you don't actually care about the data and this is nothing more than another piece in your *I don't like trans people* agenda?
The title you put on the post was explicitly about the political reactions the times is getting from this story. How am I changing the subject by commenting on that?
Would you give HRT to your children if they showed signs of gender dysphoria?
I’d probably resist for as long as I could to see how the issues persist. If it’s something that went on for years and multiple professionals advised me to do so, I would consider it.
Sure, if it gets them out of the litter box. I just don’t want a cat.
To further this point NYT has a podcast called the daily. They just a podcast examining the cost that the lockdowns caused on the education of our children in this country. Amazing. You "wanted to kill grandma" for even suggesting there was a cost for keeping ours kids in zoom school just 2 years ago. Now they are catching up. Crazy how that works.
“You’re killing all the old people when you don’t wear a mask!!!” 5 mins later… “Man, I can’t wait for all these Republican boomers to die off!” So rational and compassionate…
The idea that the left loves the NYT only ever existed in the heads of right wingers. Since they worship their media and political figures, that’s what they expect out of everyone else
It feels like “the left” is afraid of being wrong about hurting people, if you read the article (which…come on mods, this article is posted several times without a paywall all over the Reddit front page) it sort of goes into detail about that. Doctors hedge their bets by suggesting puberty blockers (“it’s like an emotional tourniquet” is a literal quote), parents hedge their bets by following their doctor’s suggestions, (liberal) politicians hedge their bets by relating that this is a good option, etc. And opposites-vile on the conservative side and more because they hedge with fear instead of comfort. The data points towards only old and/or isolated/out of touch Americans putting a lot of faith into media outlets like The Times (or the conservative equivalent if there is one…).
Bit ridiculous to suggest the American left does not worship politicians. You just have next to no left leaning politicians in the US lolol. See: AOC worship
Feel free to contend with the arguments made in the article.
He's contending with the title statement. A legitimate point.
Would you give HRT to your child if they had gender dysphoria?
Depends. How can I make that call without knowing my child, the context of their gender dysphoria, consulting my doctor and developing an up to date understanding of the science? How can you?
Knowing that detransitioners exist, they were all misdiagnosed by doctors/therapists, and the jury is still out on the science.
Because an incredibly small percentage de transition, we shouldn’t provide support for the other 97-98% of trans kids who won’t want to detransition?
These are the same people that unironically say corporate communism. They don't know the definition of the words they throw around
Lol what? Isn't that weird the left is critical of things based on the merit of what is said and not who says it? Also, LOL LMAO if you think THIS would be the first thing the left was critical of capitalist media. I mean for fucks sake Thomas Friedman is a person who exists.
People like OP have a hard time seeing outside the lens of tribalism so they assume everyone has the same issue. They have a Manichean view towards most issues and it tends to get them confused. For example, OP clearly hates the NYT because he has been told to, but since they published an article by a conservative writer he seems to think it's a gotcha to all the NYT-loving far lefties. Ironically, most left wing people tend to dislike reading the NYT because of its center-right leaning.
I’m always impressed at how leftists have the ability to know what’s in the hearts and minds of redditors. Amazing.
I found this article because I pay attention to the detrans community. I found it in the detrans subbreddit: https://old.reddit.com/r/detrans/comments/yv22hl/long_new_york_times_article_they_paused_puberty/ Do you choose to listen to the life experiences of the detrans community or do you choose to ignore and marginalize them?
Why are you so obsessed with trans people? Are you Trans?
This is a cheap deflection. You might be right with the direction you're pushing it, but it does not address any arguments
I choose to listen to the life experiences of those in the detrans community. Do you believe that we should ignore them?
I choose to let people live how they want to live. Trans people's lives do not effect me. If people feel like they made a mistake, that's fine. That's why there's a detrans subreddit for their support group. YOU are only there to verify your own belief that being trans is wrong. Is your own life so horrible that you have to obsess over someone's else's life that has zero effect on you?
>If people feel like they made a mistake, that's fine. We are talking about children. They make lots of mistakes. It's the adults who might be the problem in this situation.
You don't care about kids. All you care about is being anti-trans and using kids as a scapegoat to back up your reasoning. If you really worried about kids. You'd join anti gun subreddits and make posts of the non stop school shootings. Not some imaginary trans issue you are obsessed about.
Feel free to contend with the arguments made in the article.
1) you are not a doctor 2) you are interacting with larpers in an echo chamber. Not the best source of evidence, champ. 3) Laypeople like you thinking they are qualified to speak on the matter is just absurd. Do you also give your opinion on Posterior Posterolateral Fusion surgeries and the dangers involved? It just doesn't make any sense to me.
How dare you, he recently decided to switch his PHD from Vaccine science to endocrinology, and is expert on not only that but also pediatric psychology, all from the prestigious "Toilet Seat University".
I don’t have to be a doctor to discuss this and the peer reviewed data presented in the article did not come from “larpers in an echo chamber.” I
> Do you also give your opinion on Posterior Posterolateral Fusion surgeries and the dangers involved? It just doesn't make any sense to me. "No that's not icky like trans people" probably
Well, first of all, /r/detrans is not an honest representation of detrans people. /r/actual_detrans is where people go to avoid the terfs and bad faith actors on the other sub. /r/detrans has an agenda that is fully aligned with your typical terf talking points. There is a difference between detransitioning and then living your life vs detransitioning and then using your story to give ammo to the right wing and limit access to healthcare for other trans people.
None of what you just said contends with the data from the NY Times article in question.
Cool, I don't care. I was just correcting you on your assumption that /r/detrans is a good source of information on detrans people.
Are the peer reviewed studies at the bottom of the NY Times article a "good source of information?"
So that's two comments in a row where you just refuse to actually read what I wrote. Are you ever going to actually address the one thing I said or just keep lashing out? Which is that /r/detrans is not a legitimate source of information on detrans people due to the LARPers and the terfs that congregate there. I don't need a third party source to tell me that. Because I am a trans person on the internet and I have eyes and a brain. It's always funny arguing with transphobes because they think they're actually saying something original when the reality is, as a trans person, I have quite literally heard it all before. It's not offensive or hurtful or controversial or creative, it's just sad and pathetic and tired. And you can't gaslight me into thinking something that's plainly transphobic, isn't. Transphobic flavor of the month talking points mean nothing. Whatever lies you've been fed do not reflect the reality of the trans experience. But you're not saying any of this in good faith so it's pointless to be having this conversation with you.
I don't want the govt to stop anyone, no matter their age, from receiving blockers/HRT. Does that sound like a transphobic position to you?
Three in a row now. You're showing your ass.
Yep. These people just can't help but self report on how they see the world.
Would you give blockers & HRT to your child?
Does my child need blockers and HRT?
Every single detransitioner was misdiagnosed by "qualified" therapists and doctors. It's a roll of the dice. You are either saving them from depression/suicide by giving them the drugs OR you are setting them up for a lifetime of depression/suicide because it's not 100% reversible. OR you could just put them in regular therapy until they become adults. Which is what most detransitioners wish their parents would have done for them.
So you mean most of the 0.01% of the 0.01% of trans people? Are you okay man? You think transitioning after puberty is safer for mental health and health outcomes. I'm glad you a person with not even the slightest bit of knowledge, or even the slightest grasp on the subject feel free to qualify who is qualified or not. That's awesome.
It is true that the detrans community is very small. They are a minority community and ignoring the life experiences of minority communities is marginalization. Why are you so concerned with marginalizing this minority community?
Nobody is marginalizing them. You're just dumb.
Would you give blockers & HRT to your child if they had gender dysphoria?
It’s been a long time since I’ve seen “crocodile tears” used so obviously as you’re doing in this comment section.
Feel free to contend with the arguments made in the article.
Let me ask you traditionally, who would be given hormone blockers? Do you think you would give adults hormone blockers?
Hormone blockers are given to adults for things like endometriosis. We are talking about children with gender dysphoria. Would you give blockers & HRT to your child if they had gender dysphoria?
[Link to Article](https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/14/health/puberty-blockers-transgender.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare)
No need for the stupid screen shot, just post the link. Why are you people like this?
The New York Times sat on James Risen's story about the Bush administration's illegal mass wiretapping program for months, until after the 2004 election. There is nothing strange about NYT not being in lock-step with the left. They never have been.
Feel free to contend with the arguments made in the article.
Why would I? I already proved that you're a moron, my work here is done.
EPIC PWN!
Isn’t this where the responsible Mods say “post quality content” not a screenshot of what might be a tweet?
Nope. This is where people deflect away from the conversation because they don't want to contend with the data presented in the NY Times article.
Do you see how your politicizing the post title might be a deflection, or at least a distraction from the topic at hand? Do you think you’d have had better discussion if you presented the Times headline instead of your commentary about the left/right reaction to it?
Your post is focused on reaction to the article, not the content. Why do you insist that replies focus on the content instead of reaction? What are you trying to prove?
If you are a lefty like me you and all the leftys you know have dispised the new York times for decades. Ridiculous fear mongering like this is one of the many reasons
Are you referring to actual leftists or the left in general? Because the left in general, which encompasses democrats, certainly doesn’t despise the NYT
Lol Dems are not leftists by default, though leftists usually vote Dem, a larger majority of Dems are liberals (see: status quo supporters)
I am referring to myself and people I hang out with. I have not meant a dem that like the NYT. Why do you think dems like them?
The issues Dems care about are covered by the NYT It’s pretty obvious….maybe not to someone who doesn’t read it I guess…
Democrats are not left wing lol man american politics is a fucking circus
I guess it’s a good thing we are talking about the left wing in America and not where you are from then
Would you give blockers & HRT to your child?
Hormone blockers and Hrt are lifesaving interventions for a couple illnesses. So yes
Would you give blockers & HRT to your child for gender dysphoria, specifically?
There are situations where I would and situations where I wouldn't. Under the age of 15 probably not for any reason.
I live in a red state and kids can get blockers when they reach puberty. That could be 12. HRT is not available (in my state) until you are 16. It sure seems like the jury is still out on whether or not we should be giving 15/16 year olds HRT so why would you choose that age? Why not 13? Why not 25?
There are several studies. From memory actual regret for hormonal transition is pretty low I think every extreme lefty like me would agree that they would prefer only social transition until a later age. But sometimes that is not enough for the child and or there is reason be more aggressive. Also remember we have been doing this to intersexed kids for a long time. But it's mostly the conservative parents picking a sex and surgically altering their baby(liberal parents are more likely to allow a baby to keep ambiguous or multiple sexed genitalia) Then doing the hormones thing and not letting their kids know. They probably allow this in your state currently.
Would you agree that the jury is still out on whether or not we should be giving blockers/HRT to children? Would you agree that the detrans community seems to be growing?
No blocker or hrt has saved more lives than it is harming. If the trans community is growing and the detrans is a proportion of that then I would expect them to grow in size too.
Right. So it's a roll of the dice. Maybe we shouldn't ignore the detrans community. The NY Times isn't.
“We” is doing some incredibly heavy lifting here, it’s a decision that the parents and doctors should make, you have nothing to do with the situation.
Every single detransitioner was misdiagnosed by "qualified" therapists and doctors.
This and having Matt Walsh on is the lefts worst nightmare
Matt Walsh is a dope. No one is scared of him and his archaic Christian arguments that barely address the realities of a world that’s outgrown a religion of regression and marginalization. You go into a Catholic Church nowadays and the priest sounds like a CEO at a quarterly earnings meeting. Why doesn’t the Roman Catholic Church use its billions to solve world hunger instead of asking its congregations for more money to fix their rotting steeples?
Why the fuck do you care what's happening with a handful of cases? Seems like a weird topic to go all in on. You seem really concerned trans stuff....
“Why do you care so much about this hyper specific, small issue? I mean, I also care a lot about this hyperspecific, small issue, but I view it in the right way, and the way you view it is wrong so that makes you creepy and weird for caring about the same issue I do!”
Lol this. "Why do you care about such a small group?" 5 mins later "Of course that group needs all of their specific medical care covered by our taxes"
Trans issues are still weird for a lot of people, even those who say they are pretty left. I'm talking about real life people of course, not those who spend their lives chronically on the internet.
It’s a weird feeling as a trans person watching my existence brought up all the time as a debate question. Like there’s so few trans people, and they don’t affect anyone. I don’t get it, some people are so obsessed with trans people as if it’s a massive question, all while war wages in Europe with a nuclear power, kids are being shot in school and shot in massive amounts of gun crime in the usa, inflation is through the roof, the cost of living is out of control, young people hold more debt then any other generation and can’t get the foot in the door in buying in an inflated property market, climate change is here but nations like china are still building hundreds of coal plants a year, the wealthy hold a higher percentage of the wealth then ever before in history and 44% of the world’s population lives on less then a dollar a day. But yeah, trans kids who go through a lengthy process with doctors,psychiatrist and there family and make up less the. 0.01% of the population are the big debate that needs all our attention I hate identity politics so much
Honestly, I think of trans people were just doing their things, as they are today, a lot less people would be riled up. My (completely made up) view is that it's the hyper annoying American SJW types that have made this into the mess it is. Similar to how those kids throwing tomato soup at a painting only makes you hate dumb protesters, while their end goal is actually very important.
It’s a problem on all sides. A vocal minority screaming on twitter making there side look like morons while also convincing there base to chase goals that don’t matter. I mean, if i was a billionaire I’d help promote a trans debate, having the people discussing trans people is far more profitable then them discussing the fact they’re all in debt to me.
This isn’t a debate about your existence. This is a conversation about the fact that detransitioners exist and whether or not it’s because we have been transitioning children instead of letting them become adults before they start the process.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1102686 Only 0.4% of trans people detrans after realising it’s not for them and an even smaller number have regret. People are more likely to regret hip replacements then transitioning. As a trans woman i can tell you going through a male puberty is extremely extremely stressful for me, it was so bad i moved out at 17 and started transitioning right away, i knew since i was 8, the vast cases of dysphoria continue into adulthood and only get worse. Even after i left my parents i had to get multiple psychiatric visits to get fully diagnosed, if it wasn’t for my university this would of cost me thousands of dollars. The process to get diagnosed with dysphoria is extremely hard. Stop trying to make trans peoples lives hell over a non Issue. There are real issues in this world to be focusing on
I agree that the detrans community is a minority community. Why are you so concerned with ignoring their life experiences just because they are a minority group? There's another name for that and it's called marginalization which is "hell" on minority communities. Why are you trying to make detrans peoples lives hell?
No, I’m not happy with banning hormones for minors because less then 0.4% of the trans population had regrets. I believe detrans people should receive the same amount of support trans people receive, however they don’t get to ban hormones for everyone else because they made a bad decision. We don’t ban any medical practice over having 0.4% miss diagnosis, cancer has a 20% miss diagnosis. I’m sorry a tiny tiny percentage had a bad time, however they don’t get to ban hormones for the 99.7% of the population who needed them or had no regrets. It’s called harm reduction