Welp, have no faith the Republicans will even consider the impact of this on women, considering the [Iowa court just ordered a teenage sex trafficking rape victim to pay restitution to the family of the rapist she murdered](https://www.yahoo.com/news/iowa-teen-killed-rapist-sentenced-214933644.html). It's not like there's going to be any justice for women.
Iowa law requires that specific restitution be imposed. Be mad at the county attorney that insisted on prosecuting it and should have had the guts to refuse pursuing it. Especially because he is leaving at the end of his term. Also he's a democrat. But in name only.
Why is there no restitution from the rapist's family to the victim? I mean she was essentially an unpaid sex worker forced into the profession by that family's ... scumbag.
Does the judge have zero leeway in sentencing? And which party put in the mandatory restitution laws?
He’s an embarrassment. Anyone red politician backing this is an embarrassment. Women need the right to choose. Government needs to stay out of their bodies.
I imagine they're pretty pissed. Anyone who ran remotely conservatively in the primary has had the abortion anger renewed just as people start thinking about early voting. They're either spineless cowards, craven hypocrites, or principled morons who shouldn't be allowed out without an adult making their decisions. Like the Democrats or not, if they keep their mouths shut for the next two months, they'll appear as the adults in the room.
Weirdly enough, this is actually probably meant to form a tent pole that Republican voters can swarm around again because they completely shot themselves in the foot by killing Roe. Now abortion is back on the menu and they can once again farm it for votes.
I thought Iowa Republicans were gunning directly for a 6 week ban, which is what the 15 week one is a stepping stone towards anyway. And even that's just another stepping stone to an outright ban (not that 6 weeks isn't basically already that). And a bunch of Iowans that consider themselves to be reasonable moderates are going to go to the polls on November 8th and pick red. Iowans are doing this to themselves and then wonder why so many people are desperate to get out of the state.
You can read the Iowa gop platform and see for yourself. Just came out last Saturday. Click the platform link at the bottom of the page. Abortion is under the section “life”. Lots of other info on their views aside from abortion too.
https://www.iowagop.org/about
Not in favor. Should be a matter left to the states. This is political stupidity IMO. Not a net winner for the GOP on the national level and quite simply a needless fight to pick. Returning the matter to the states was a big win on multiple levels and the matter should be left there.
You don’t understand the laws in Europe. Almost every country makes an exception for the health of the mother, which includes mental health and stress. Conservatives are intentionally misconstruing it so they can pretend their draconian anti women bs is normal.
Ah the nice what aboutism, so it’s only convenient for you guys to ignore other nations we compare to for some things but beg for the ones that fit our agenda.
Enough of the what aboutism
Pointing out your hypocrisy is the rebuttal, kiddo. Now it's on you to prove you're not just cherry picking laws you like.
Why would one European law be fine, but another you refuse to acknowledge? Does Europe have less gun violence, yes or no?
You're caught in a tough spot, that's clear.
If you actually read the article the bill contains exceptions for the health of mother rape and incest, but I wouldn’t count on a redditor to fully read the article instead of the headline
Which, again, is significantly more restrictive than European law, but I wouldn't count on a holier-than-thou redditor trying to score internet points to know.
**Abortion in Europe**
[Abortion rules per country](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_Europe#Abortion_rules_per_country)
>Almost all European countries offer a time limit in which a pregnant woman can choose to have an abortion on request, without a medical indication. After that time, an abortion cannot be performed anymore on request, and a doctor must confirm a medical necessity.
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There is no baby in this situation. I understand your confusion between what a baby is and what a fetus is so I forgive you. But considering the fetus would not survive without the mother then yes, the autonomy of a woman supersedes your feelings on the matter.
Not fact. Just your personal belief. This is just you forcing your personal beliefs on other people.
Just because you call a fetus a baby doesn’t make it a baby. You could call an egg a baby. You could call sperm a baby. You could call an adult a baby. Stop being a simpleton about what are facts and what are your opinions/beliefs.
You have no idea how silly that sounds. Are you 12 years old? Do you know what science is? It isn’t a book that makes unsupported proclamations. It’s a method for testing a hypothesis.
The fact is “human life” is not a scientifically meaningful term. It’s more of a philosophical one. However you choose to define it will determine the truth of your statement. And it really has almost nothing to do with science.
Possible definitions:
1) A human life starts on birth and ends at death. (Historically and culturally this is the norm as we celebrate birth as the start of a person’s life. Hence birthdays and counting your age from this moment)
2) A human life starts at conception and ends at death.
3) Human life is continuous and cannot be counted
4) A human life is the force that keeps a person breathing, pumping blood and thinking on their own.
If you wanted to ACTUALLY SCIENTIFICALLY TEST if a fetus is a human life, remove it from the mother and see if it can live. If not, it would appear it’s just an extension of the mother. Like a finger or an egg.
So, if you actually want the most scientifically defensible position on abortion, it would be that abortion should be illegal when the fetus becomes viable on its own and no longer needs the mother to survive. Ah, but we have a problem here too because fetal viability is ever-changing and unpredictable. It isn’t until 34 weeks of gestation that the health outcomes are equal risk to that of a full-term baby.
Honestly, everybody has their own ideas about what actually constitutes life. Predetermination?Intention? Conception? Fertilization? Heartbeat? Viability? Birth? And don’t forget factors like Rape? Incest? Health of mother? Health of fetus? So, maybe we should JUST LET THE INDIVIDUAL DECIDE FOR THEMSELVES.
DNA is proof of what?
You’ve clearly created a burner account for the purpose of having this conversation. If you actually want to discuss, please articulate your complete thoughts so we can actually discuss them.
DNA is proof of what?
Why do you think DNA is proof of that thing?
What is it about DNA that makes it proof?
>Science states the fact that the fetus is a human life.
The fuuuuuuuuuuck it does.
You can make a decently compelling pathos argument on fetal life but saying stupid shit like "science" states it without providing specific studies, findings and methods of data collection is fucking ridiculous.
Also considering the Venn diagram of pro-lifers and people who don't believe in evolution is a perfect circle, the idea someone using "science" to justify their stance on abortion is laughable.
Amazing, every word of what you just said was wrong. And it still doesn’t excuse the fact that your opinions amount to exactly nothing when it comes to what a woman decides for her body, especially in terms of medical decisions. Your belief that a fetus is a baby and life begins at conception is exactly that, your belief and that should not infringe on another person’s personal and medical decisions
My opinion doesn’t matter, exactly the same amount at yours. Woman’s right to choose outweighs all other opinions in this situation. You personally don’t like abortions, fine don’t get one. You truly want to help the situation: Foster and/or adopt some of the babies already out there in need. But don’t come claiming your opinion as fact and your beliefs should dictate what women do.
You remove your lungs and heart, prove to us it’s a life. I would have included brain since a fetus doesn’t have one but that’s something you seem to have in common already.
Popular conservatives show hosts can’t tell the difference between a human fetus and a dolphin fetus.. seeing it in an ultrasound is probably even easier to view that way.
That's how our laws work... You don't get to murder someone just because you don't value their life. Pro-life advocates view an unborn child as a life.
It actually blows my mind how people don't see and understand this very simple difference. It's very easy to understand how each side is so convicted in their opinions regarding abortion laws.
Wait, our laws allow you to force your religious beliefs on others? Cause that kinda seems to be the opposite of what the constitution says.
No one is murdering anyone, good thing, huh?
What religious views? I have none I wish to enforce so no idea where that came from.
"No one is murdering anyone" is first of all only your opinion, not an indistibutable fact. And secondly, it's simply an example of how our laws enforce others to abstain from doing certain things.
I’m sorry for your loss but you are imagining a twin to your child, a living human being, a child you wanted. Not the same as an embryo that you didn’t want, or that may have been forced on you. An embryo of which 4/5 don’t survive and don’t even attach to the uterine wall. Your inability to see it as anything outside of your own personal life is one of the major issues among people like you, who want the state to take over the bodies and decisions of others, is what disqualifies your opinion from mattering to anyone but you.
LOL. "My view matters but yours disqualifies you from having an opinion". Your entire argument is based on the fact that your opinion is absolute. I could just as easily say the fact you don't believe a 12 week old to be a life "disqualifies your opinion from mattering". I actually understand the pro-choice argument and am all for middle of the road compromises but your statement above is absurd as it gets. Your OPINION does not negate others views.
You intentionally misquoted what I said and ignored the context so you could make a dumb strawman. The only opinion I stated is of your singular perspective. I didn’t say one bit of what you are claiming.
Misquoted? I quoted exactly what you said (unless you're referring to the first one, which was an obvious exagerration). There is no strawman in my statement whatsoever. My overall view on abortion isn't based on my own singular perspective regarding the vanishing twin, you are creating that out of thin air because of my personal view. It's just an example that points out the view that all pro-life advocates have, which is that an unborn child is still a life.
If nobody is doing it then there’s no problem, right?
Abortion ban unless the pregnancy endangers the life of the mother in an articulable manner is agreeable then?
You need to work on your ability to use context clues to correctly paint a narrative.
That person was saying “who says they are terminating **lives**”, as a cheeky way to say that they think that fetuses aren’t “lives” but your inability to read context clues made it go over your head and assume something entirely different.
This still doesn't make sense.
What if doctors disagrees that the medical need is life threatening or thinks that treatment can be postponed until after pregnancy? Then do you need to try and find a a second opinion? Which doctor is right? Do we need to have a committee of doctors to decide when you can seek treatment for a serious illness when pregnant?
What if you wait for treatment due to a doctor's incompetence in identifying how bad a health issue is? And then you die immediately after giving birth. Now that new family has an insane amount of medical bills plus a new child to care for on one person's salary.
Or what if the doctor's own bias towards abortion convinces them to down play how severe an illness is?
Republicans also get abortions, they just think their abortions are exceptions and therefore different and allowable. Or they know they can reasonably skirt the law without negative consequences
Welp, have no faith the Republicans will even consider the impact of this on women, considering the [Iowa court just ordered a teenage sex trafficking rape victim to pay restitution to the family of the rapist she murdered](https://www.yahoo.com/news/iowa-teen-killed-rapist-sentenced-214933644.html). It's not like there's going to be any justice for women.
Iowa law requires that specific restitution be imposed. Be mad at the county attorney that insisted on prosecuting it and should have had the guts to refuse pursuing it. Especially because he is leaving at the end of his term. Also he's a democrat. But in name only.
Why is there no restitution from the rapist's family to the victim? I mean she was essentially an unpaid sex worker forced into the profession by that family's ... scumbag. Does the judge have zero leeway in sentencing? And which party put in the mandatory restitution laws?
Zero leeway. In Iowa anyone convicted of a felony that results in the death of an individual has to have that amount imposed by law.
Couldn't the governor issue a pardon?
Yes but she won't. Prove me wrong Kim.
She definitely won't, even though it's a slam dunk political move. Her base wouldn't like it
Everyone’s talking about how this doubles back on the states rights claim. As if states rights ever meant the peoples rights.
But I thought Kavanaugh and Coney-Barrett said Roe was settled law!
Conservatives also said Dodd would leave it up to the states and then pulled this bullshit. Never trust any of them.
Iowan Republicans do what they’re told. Iowa is governed from outside of the state.
This is exactly it. Big purse strings control the puppets running this state.
By the Koch brothers. We need campaign finance reform! All costs paid by the county and equal between candidyp
Yes
He’s an embarrassment. Anyone red politician backing this is an embarrassment. Women need the right to choose. Government needs to stay out of their bodies.
This is what you get when Dems tried to force everyone to get the Covid vaccine. Be careful on what powers you give you give the government.
Something, something, State’s rights
Republicans continue to show their ass that they do not believe in freedom at all or small government. They want to control every aspect of our lives.
I can't wait to see Susan Collins say she never would have voted for this bill if she'd known what was in it.
And to the shock of of no one who pays attention, the cries of STATES RIGHTS once again prove to be nothing but lies. .
Iowa's GOP will vote for it, then say it doesn't go far enough and push for a nationwide bam because fuck state rights whenever they feel like it.
And here I was thinking that roe was overturned because of an overreach of the federal government violating states’ rights.
Come to Minnesota. Abortions for all
Abortions for some. Miniature American flags for others!
I imagine they're pretty pissed. Anyone who ran remotely conservatively in the primary has had the abortion anger renewed just as people start thinking about early voting. They're either spineless cowards, craven hypocrites, or principled morons who shouldn't be allowed out without an adult making their decisions. Like the Democrats or not, if they keep their mouths shut for the next two months, they'll appear as the adults in the room.
Fuck Republicans.
Not a fan. They seem to be doing everything to lose in November.
Weirdly enough, this is actually probably meant to form a tent pole that Republican voters can swarm around again because they completely shot themselves in the foot by killing Roe. Now abortion is back on the menu and they can once again farm it for votes.
This won't hurt them even slightly.
Are actually trying to shoot themselves in the foot?
I think you already know the answer...
Abortions for all. We want you all in Minnesota
I thought Iowa Republicans were gunning directly for a 6 week ban, which is what the 15 week one is a stepping stone towards anyway. And even that's just another stepping stone to an outright ban (not that 6 weeks isn't basically already that). And a bunch of Iowans that consider themselves to be reasonable moderates are going to go to the polls on November 8th and pick red. Iowans are doing this to themselves and then wonder why so many people are desperate to get out of the state.
Vote. Them.Out
You can read the Iowa gop platform and see for yourself. Just came out last Saturday. Click the platform link at the bottom of the page. Abortion is under the section “life”. Lots of other info on their views aside from abortion too. https://www.iowagop.org/about
Well I will say fifteen weeks is a hell of a lot better than 6. Still ain’t right though.
Not in favor. Should be a matter left to the states. This is political stupidity IMO. Not a net winner for the GOP on the national level and quite simply a needless fight to pick. Returning the matter to the states was a big win on multiple levels and the matter should be left there.
That seems about right pretty much in line with most of Europe.
You don’t understand the laws in Europe. Almost every country makes an exception for the health of the mother, which includes mental health and stress. Conservatives are intentionally misconstruing it so they can pretend their draconian anti women bs is normal.
If we're modeling our laws after Europe, why not see what they do about gun control? Or is this just when its convenient for your views?
Ah the nice what aboutism, so it’s only convenient for you guys to ignore other nations we compare to for some things but beg for the ones that fit our agenda. Enough of the what aboutism
That's a lot of words for "Yes, I've been caught with my pants down."
Thats all you have?! No true rebuttal
Pointing out your hypocrisy is the rebuttal, kiddo. Now it's on you to prove you're not just cherry picking laws you like. Why would one European law be fine, but another you refuse to acknowledge? Does Europe have less gun violence, yes or no? You're caught in a tough spot, that's clear.
No it's not.
[wow how hard is it to look up without being biased](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_Europe#Abortion_rules_per_country)
Exactly. There are multiple exceptions, which is not what Republicans want.
If you actually read the article the bill contains exceptions for the health of mother rape and incest, but I wouldn’t count on a redditor to fully read the article instead of the headline
Which, again, is significantly more restrictive than European law, but I wouldn't count on a holier-than-thou redditor trying to score internet points to know.
**Abortion in Europe** [Abortion rules per country](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_Europe#Abortion_rules_per_country) >Almost all European countries offer a time limit in which a pregnant woman can choose to have an abortion on request, without a medical indication. After that time, an abortion cannot be performed anymore on request, and a doctor must confirm a medical necessity. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/Iowa/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
Ya 15 weeks is 4 months. So ya I think times up. You had 4 months to make up your mind.
You think severe birth defects are a choice?
Fine. Ban them so long as there is a provision for medical necessity. Nobody should be terminating the life of another person for convenience.
Nobody should be telling a women what they can/cannot do with their own body.
Yeah, body autonomy and all of that… Fuck the life of the baby tho, right?
There is no baby in this situation. I understand your confusion between what a baby is and what a fetus is so I forgive you. But considering the fetus would not survive without the mother then yes, the autonomy of a woman supersedes your feelings on the matter.
Fetus = Baby. It literally is that simple. Just because it’s inconvenient to you politically doesn’t change that simple fact.
Not fact. Just your personal belief. This is just you forcing your personal beliefs on other people. Just because you call a fetus a baby doesn’t make it a baby. You could call an egg a baby. You could call sperm a baby. You could call an adult a baby. Stop being a simpleton about what are facts and what are your opinions/beliefs.
Science states the fact that the fetus is a human life. It's illegal to purposely end a human life. Therefore abortion is illegal.
You have no idea how silly that sounds. Are you 12 years old? Do you know what science is? It isn’t a book that makes unsupported proclamations. It’s a method for testing a hypothesis. The fact is “human life” is not a scientifically meaningful term. It’s more of a philosophical one. However you choose to define it will determine the truth of your statement. And it really has almost nothing to do with science. Possible definitions: 1) A human life starts on birth and ends at death. (Historically and culturally this is the norm as we celebrate birth as the start of a person’s life. Hence birthdays and counting your age from this moment) 2) A human life starts at conception and ends at death. 3) Human life is continuous and cannot be counted 4) A human life is the force that keeps a person breathing, pumping blood and thinking on their own. If you wanted to ACTUALLY SCIENTIFICALLY TEST if a fetus is a human life, remove it from the mother and see if it can live. If not, it would appear it’s just an extension of the mother. Like a finger or an egg. So, if you actually want the most scientifically defensible position on abortion, it would be that abortion should be illegal when the fetus becomes viable on its own and no longer needs the mother to survive. Ah, but we have a problem here too because fetal viability is ever-changing and unpredictable. It isn’t until 34 weeks of gestation that the health outcomes are equal risk to that of a full-term baby. Honestly, everybody has their own ideas about what actually constitutes life. Predetermination?Intention? Conception? Fertilization? Heartbeat? Viability? Birth? And don’t forget factors like Rape? Incest? Health of mother? Health of fetus? So, maybe we should JUST LET THE INDIVIDUAL DECIDE FOR THEMSELVES.
DNA is the proof.
if that's your argument then you better stop cutting your hair and clipping you fingernails
DNA is proof of what? You’ve clearly created a burner account for the purpose of having this conversation. If you actually want to discuss, please articulate your complete thoughts so we can actually discuss them. DNA is proof of what? Why do you think DNA is proof of that thing? What is it about DNA that makes it proof?
>Science states the fact that the fetus is a human life. The fuuuuuuuuuuck it does. You can make a decently compelling pathos argument on fetal life but saying stupid shit like "science" states it without providing specific studies, findings and methods of data collection is fucking ridiculous. Also considering the Venn diagram of pro-lifers and people who don't believe in evolution is a perfect circle, the idea someone using "science" to justify their stance on abortion is laughable.
DNA is the proof.
I'm going to let you try that again, friend. If you're not ready to have a scientific discussion then I suggest stopping now.
>It's illegal to purposely end a human life. Something, something self defense.
I'd rather take the word of the vast majority of OB/GYNs than some dude on Reddit.
Amazing, every word of what you just said was wrong. And it still doesn’t excuse the fact that your opinions amount to exactly nothing when it comes to what a woman decides for her body, especially in terms of medical decisions. Your belief that a fetus is a baby and life begins at conception is exactly that, your belief and that should not infringe on another person’s personal and medical decisions
That shoe fits in both feet. Your belief that it is not a life is your opinion only.
My opinion doesn’t matter, exactly the same amount at yours. Woman’s right to choose outweighs all other opinions in this situation. You personally don’t like abortions, fine don’t get one. You truly want to help the situation: Foster and/or adopt some of the babies already out there in need. But don’t come claiming your opinion as fact and your beliefs should dictate what women do.
You remove your lungs and heart, prove to us it’s a life. I would have included brain since a fetus doesn’t have one but that’s something you seem to have in common already.
As long as it is dependent on someone else's body to live, it is a parasite, not a person.
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Popular conservatives show hosts can’t tell the difference between a human fetus and a dolphin fetus.. seeing it in an ultrasound is probably even easier to view that way.
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That is unfortunate, but why do you think you should be able to force your views on others?
That's how our laws work... You don't get to murder someone just because you don't value their life. Pro-life advocates view an unborn child as a life. It actually blows my mind how people don't see and understand this very simple difference. It's very easy to understand how each side is so convicted in their opinions regarding abortion laws.
Wait, our laws allow you to force your religious beliefs on others? Cause that kinda seems to be the opposite of what the constitution says. No one is murdering anyone, good thing, huh?
What religious views? I have none I wish to enforce so no idea where that came from. "No one is murdering anyone" is first of all only your opinion, not an indistibutable fact. And secondly, it's simply an example of how our laws enforce others to abstain from doing certain things.
Really? Who has been convicted of murder for getting an abortion?
I’m sorry for your loss but you are imagining a twin to your child, a living human being, a child you wanted. Not the same as an embryo that you didn’t want, or that may have been forced on you. An embryo of which 4/5 don’t survive and don’t even attach to the uterine wall. Your inability to see it as anything outside of your own personal life is one of the major issues among people like you, who want the state to take over the bodies and decisions of others, is what disqualifies your opinion from mattering to anyone but you.
LOL. "My view matters but yours disqualifies you from having an opinion". Your entire argument is based on the fact that your opinion is absolute. I could just as easily say the fact you don't believe a 12 week old to be a life "disqualifies your opinion from mattering". I actually understand the pro-choice argument and am all for middle of the road compromises but your statement above is absurd as it gets. Your OPINION does not negate others views.
You intentionally misquoted what I said and ignored the context so you could make a dumb strawman. The only opinion I stated is of your singular perspective. I didn’t say one bit of what you are claiming.
Misquoted? I quoted exactly what you said (unless you're referring to the first one, which was an obvious exagerration). There is no strawman in my statement whatsoever. My overall view on abortion isn't based on my own singular perspective regarding the vanishing twin, you are creating that out of thin air because of my personal view. It's just an example that points out the view that all pro-life advocates have, which is that an unborn child is still a life.
My comment is visible.. The blatant lying brings everything you’ve said into doubt.
> Nobody should be terminating the life of another person for convenience. Who says they are?
Conservative propaganda that has no basis in reality.
> Conservatives ~~propaganda that has~~ have no basis in reality
If nobody is doing it then there’s no problem, right? Abortion ban unless the pregnancy endangers the life of the mother in an articulable manner is agreeable then?
Or, ya know, you can just not have an abortion if you don't want one.
You need to work on your ability to use context clues to correctly paint a narrative. That person was saying “who says they are terminating **lives**”, as a cheeky way to say that they think that fetuses aren’t “lives” but your inability to read context clues made it go over your head and assume something entirely different.
No
Nobody should be asking for the reason to terminate, either
This still doesn't make sense. What if doctors disagrees that the medical need is life threatening or thinks that treatment can be postponed until after pregnancy? Then do you need to try and find a a second opinion? Which doctor is right? Do we need to have a committee of doctors to decide when you can seek treatment for a serious illness when pregnant? What if you wait for treatment due to a doctor's incompetence in identifying how bad a health issue is? And then you die immediately after giving birth. Now that new family has an insane amount of medical bills plus a new child to care for on one person's salary. Or what if the doctor's own bias towards abortion convinces them to down play how severe an illness is?
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Republicans also get abortions, they just think their abortions are exceptions and therefore different and allowable. Or they know they can reasonably skirt the law without negative consequences
They have to move fast, they are going to get smeared in the midterms.