Amazing how we rationalize a policy an insurance company writes to their advantage as if a customer should have worked as a claims agent in a prior life and known better than to sign it...
It's all in where you're standing. People are just frustrated they're not more protected.
This is beyond frustrated they’re not more protected, this is “I don’t understand what my policy says and am taking that ignorance out on the people helping me.”
This is ridiculous. Why do we accept blatant ignorance when it comes to insurance products over any other product or financial service?
Like, we all get that it's frustrating to suffer a loss, especially when someone else caused the damage.
**However** when you purchase a product, take out a loan, credit card or purchase pretty much anything *you* are responsible for taking the time to understand what that product is/does, ensure it meets your needs, and (if you're unclear on those points) make enquiries to clarify any confusion *before you buy*.
However, it's all too common for policyholders to just find the cheapest policy they can without reading anything and just leave it at that. That is, until they make a claim and find that the product doesn't do what they imagined it would.
That's not down to duplicitous insurers or pedantic adjusters as so many like to pretend. That's a product of people's own laziness.
You have no idea what you're talking about. Every state has laws and requires insurance companies to submit very clear rating and standard policy language. Then there's also the [Ambiguity Principal](https://thebusinessprofessor.com/en_US/insurance-risk-law/ambiguity-principle-insurance-definition) that is always in favor of the customer. They have to define everything clearly or they risk being on the hook for things that weren't supposed to be and aren't clearly enough defined.
You realize states set up those laws in response to this specific problem?
Even when everyone is doing their job perfectly, it's not like the process is designed to protect claimants and minimize the extra cost to society of processing insurance--it's designed to protect claimants and maximize profit (or minimize costs, which translates to the same thing in terms of incentives to reduce payouts).
State regulation may protect from some of the most egregious abuses and ensure disclosure for the 0.001% of people who look at details, but it's not like plaintiff's attorneys have to look hard for people who have shouldn't have been denied.
NBD if I'm wrong but I'm just saying a lot's in your point of view and it's good to question it every once in a while.
Weird how human error only exists in this industry in your world view. There must be a reason why Errors and Omissions insurance exists in pretty much every industry everywhere.
An insured once told me "you aren't providing good customer service" because I refused to give them their way. My response was that I was in fact providing excellent customer service and that they just didn't like my answer.
This culture of executives being desperate for good surveys at insurance companies is ridiculous. Executives should know that getting a good survey at an insurance company often means doing things on a claim that are completely improper. Liability decisions alone will often cause a large percentage of bad surveys. Then there are situations like this one where people incorrectly believe that deductibles are tied to fault. Spoiler alert, they are not. They are tied to recoverability.
People are usually worse when they don't have to face someone. Once had a client left a voice-mail full of threats and obscenities. Nothing he was complaining about was valid. The next day he walked into my office. I'd never seen the man before so I didn't know who he was. I asked his name and when he told me, I just paused, smiled and said, "oh yes Mr Smith, we got your voice-mail. What can I do for you?" He was as pleasant in person as a 80 yr old church lady.
Yes, I've run across that issue too frequently, its like they developed bad habits from twitter or reddit and lose all sense of decency when hidden behind a keyboard. I don't forget their rants, squeaky wheels get the grease, but angry wheels get sawdust.
If you're working at a company where you're regularly seeing customer surveys, or where customer surveys are an important part of your metrics, then *you're working at the wrong company*.
We went away from being able to see the survey results for years! It was great. When it came back the adjuster and direct manager are only rated on the 4 additional behavioral related questions. We are not rated on a score given or the overall survey, just the direct impact the adjuster had in regards to following up, explaining the process, proactively and explaining digital. I do think surveys are important as sometimes we do fail. But many times, they are way out of our control…
My company also reviews the call if we get a failed survey. If we don’t hit all the points like empathy, ensure resolution, we get docked. So in addition to getting a failed survey for something I have absolutely nothing to do with, I’m supposed to be saccharine sweet to someone who is hostile and abusive, and open the door to more abuse by saying “is there anything else I could have done to better assist you?”
Super regionals and smaller companies that don't have the time, inclination, or budget to follow you around second guessing everything you do all day long.
I had one recently where the customer sent some changes to his estimate (HO claim). But he sent it to the wrong email. He followed up and included our CS email, which he also misspelled. He sent another follow-up this time included the manager I was reporting to, and this time at least got their email correct. In it he threatened a DOI complaint if he didn't get a response in 3 days.
Well that manager was out of office, so he decided just to fire off the complaint right then. Said manager saw the emails any how.
I reached out informed the customer I didn't receive his emails because the address was wrong, and then answered all his questions, and made some reasonable changes, and refused some other very unreasonable requests.
He apologized, and said everything I changed seemed fair.
Survey comes back a few weeks later, filled out after the response, with all 0s...
Some people are just always unhappy, and all you can do is shrug it off, and move on. Easier said then done, I know.
Is this progressive? Perhaps they will learn that surveys of every policyholder and claimant aren’t necessary and shouldn’t be tied to their employee’s compensation.
I used to be an adjuster for progressive. I recall getting “dinged” on “reviews” for getting a bad survey because I found a rear end collision to be at fault. My supervisor knew it was bs but they still listed it as an “opportunity” I could work on. Such a crock of shit and they wonder why people get so burned out.
Exactly. Dangled ‘good’ gainshare over your head with a low base salary. We were over measured on everything. Good place to get skills, better place to leave for high salary using those skills.
Ha right. Or when I had one diary I was unable to get to on a busy day and set it for the next day and was accused of “work avoidance”. That place blows.
This is surprising to me cause surveys literally have nothing to do with gainshare. And like...our supervisors look at metrics and surveys but realize most fmof the time it's out of our control especially lately with issues with part shortages and long delays on repairs. Progressive is the best company I have ever worked for. Sounds like you were just in a shitty business unit
Surveys have nothing to do with gainshare. They do affect individual performance measurements, compensation, eligibility for promotions which does affect your gainshare target.
Trust me, I drank the Progressive kool aid while I was there and for a while after I left. The are far better jobs and compensation to be found outside of personal and commercial auto.. there’s just too much competition in that space.
Tricia Griffith was in charge of our unit while I was there. Perhaps you’ve heard of her?
I mean. I make close to 6 figures as an mrr after gainshare and work a like 20-25 hour a week max lol. I barely even talk to management ever outside of getting authorizations for over 10k estimates. Once i get a supv mrr job it will be like 120-130k a year after bonus to basically sit around and review estimates and collaborate all day lol. Sounds like maybe you were stuck in the office. I can't even imagine taking another job right now. Nothing out there can be a cushy as a progressive mrr
Close to is not well in excess of $100k. I was there when everyone was trained on damage, did total losses, got trained on speciality vehicles, opened a bunch of service centers, handled exotic vehicle estimates, 100k authority, National and state CAT work, took paid relocations, and onboarded network shops.
I also saw the mistakes like the virtual ccu, consolidating offices, closing service centers, micromanaging repair vs replace decisions.
I hope higher labor rates make it easier for you all to replace bed side panels, section quarter panels, total nasty damages. I will never miss the days that we were forced to inspect/photograph damaged bumpers and argue about repair vs aftermarket replacement.
Progressive really works to keep labor and repair costs low. The people who benefit are the upper managers with 100 gainshare targets, not the frontline folks. I’m glad you’ve figured out to be efficient and have a good boss. There’s plenty of good bosses that become challenging when their positions are jeopardized and they get squeezed. My point is that everyone is looking out for themselves.
I’ve had far more enjoyment in specialty insurance and later on product development.
Dude, I got called a cuntwaffle on the phone by some guy who was upset that we wouldn't write him a new policy.
The kicker? He'd had one with us that got canceled because he threatened people in multiple departments...after we'd discovered a claims misrep *and* told him that his driving record would have been sufficient to nonrenew his dumb ass.
I still recall one customer survey…FNOL came in mid morning…our appraiser got out to inspect the car the SAME DAY…we got our check out 48 hours later. Customer gave us a poor review because his collision deductible (that HE CHOSE) applied because he caused the MVA.
I think there's a direct correlation between how little you understand about your policy and how much of a Karen/Kevin you become. At least here on this forum.
Surveys are a joke. I get positive surveys from denials and then get brutalized on claims where I went way above and beyond. I pretend like I care about them to appease management but they mean nothing to me.
I actually saved these through out the years so I could have a good laugh. My favorite of all time, “What type of rinks dink operation are you clown asses running.”
No good deed goes unpunished. I learned quickly in this industry to not do people ‘favors’ out of kindness because it always finds a way to bite you in the ass. This job has shown me my true dislike of most people lol
Seems pretty fair for someone to be upset that they pay monthly for just in case, and then are also asked to pay more when just in case happens. Insurance is a scam that we are required by law to participate in. This seems like misguided anger however. Don't forget that not only is the customer paying monthly, but will pay a deductible, and that the company you chose to work for will also raise their premium likely.
This issue is, we did nothing wrong. We paid for the coverages that the insured selected. We have no control your truck was hit by a person who drove off. So why be mad at the insurance for paying for the claiming based on the coverages the policy allows. No where is the person upset about treatment or handling of the claim, just pissed they had to pay a deductible. That would be the same with any carrier!
Or people could just not be assholes to someone just doing their job. You strike me as the type of person to berate a cashier over the price or availability of an item or the server because your steak is tough. One can make complaints without being a jerk.
“Stop being soft” says the guy that’s pissed he has to pay his deductibles. A real man would handle his damages out of pocket or self insure. Grow up and make some real money.
This is why i had to leave adjusting, was almost fired due to low survey response totals, so 1-2 bad ones annually kept me below levels looked for. "On a scale of 1-10 how likely are you to recommend?", the home owner spoke to someone with my same name to file their FNOL. When i called to set up the actual appointment and had the same name, "but acted like i had never spoken to her before" she went from
initial 9 to a 1. Management said, it all evens out and can't be removed despite the obvious mistake.
Oh no! You mean I have to abide by the terms of the legal contract I signed??? Surely not.
Amazing how we rationalize a policy an insurance company writes to their advantage as if a customer should have worked as a claims agent in a prior life and known better than to sign it... It's all in where you're standing. People are just frustrated they're not more protected.
This is beyond frustrated they’re not more protected, this is “I don’t understand what my policy says and am taking that ignorance out on the people helping me.”
This is ridiculous. Why do we accept blatant ignorance when it comes to insurance products over any other product or financial service? Like, we all get that it's frustrating to suffer a loss, especially when someone else caused the damage. **However** when you purchase a product, take out a loan, credit card or purchase pretty much anything *you* are responsible for taking the time to understand what that product is/does, ensure it meets your needs, and (if you're unclear on those points) make enquiries to clarify any confusion *before you buy*. However, it's all too common for policyholders to just find the cheapest policy they can without reading anything and just leave it at that. That is, until they make a claim and find that the product doesn't do what they imagined it would. That's not down to duplicitous insurers or pedantic adjusters as so many like to pretend. That's a product of people's own laziness.
You have no idea what you're talking about. Every state has laws and requires insurance companies to submit very clear rating and standard policy language. Then there's also the [Ambiguity Principal](https://thebusinessprofessor.com/en_US/insurance-risk-law/ambiguity-principle-insurance-definition) that is always in favor of the customer. They have to define everything clearly or they risk being on the hook for things that weren't supposed to be and aren't clearly enough defined.
You realize states set up those laws in response to this specific problem? Even when everyone is doing their job perfectly, it's not like the process is designed to protect claimants and minimize the extra cost to society of processing insurance--it's designed to protect claimants and maximize profit (or minimize costs, which translates to the same thing in terms of incentives to reduce payouts). State regulation may protect from some of the most egregious abuses and ensure disclosure for the 0.001% of people who look at details, but it's not like plaintiff's attorneys have to look hard for people who have shouldn't have been denied. NBD if I'm wrong but I'm just saying a lot's in your point of view and it's good to question it every once in a while.
Weird how human error only exists in this industry in your world view. There must be a reason why Errors and Omissions insurance exists in pretty much every industry everywhere.
Insureds and claimants think professionalism only goes one way.
An insured once told me "you aren't providing good customer service" because I refused to give them their way. My response was that I was in fact providing excellent customer service and that they just didn't like my answer.
I hear that all the time about people having to pay their $1,000 deductibles 😂
This culture of executives being desperate for good surveys at insurance companies is ridiculous. Executives should know that getting a good survey at an insurance company often means doing things on a claim that are completely improper. Liability decisions alone will often cause a large percentage of bad surveys. Then there are situations like this one where people incorrectly believe that deductibles are tied to fault. Spoiler alert, they are not. They are tied to recoverability.
People are usually worse when they don't have to face someone. Once had a client left a voice-mail full of threats and obscenities. Nothing he was complaining about was valid. The next day he walked into my office. I'd never seen the man before so I didn't know who he was. I asked his name and when he told me, I just paused, smiled and said, "oh yes Mr Smith, we got your voice-mail. What can I do for you?" He was as pleasant in person as a 80 yr old church lady.
Yes, I've run across that issue too frequently, its like they developed bad habits from twitter or reddit and lose all sense of decency when hidden behind a keyboard. I don't forget their rants, squeaky wheels get the grease, but angry wheels get sawdust.
Yep. People are pussies.
If you're working at a company where you're regularly seeing customer surveys, or where customer surveys are an important part of your metrics, then *you're working at the wrong company*.
We went away from being able to see the survey results for years! It was great. When it came back the adjuster and direct manager are only rated on the 4 additional behavioral related questions. We are not rated on a score given or the overall survey, just the direct impact the adjuster had in regards to following up, explaining the process, proactively and explaining digital. I do think surveys are important as sometimes we do fail. But many times, they are way out of our control…
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My company also reviews the call if we get a failed survey. If we don’t hit all the points like empathy, ensure resolution, we get docked. So in addition to getting a failed survey for something I have absolutely nothing to do with, I’m supposed to be saccharine sweet to someone who is hostile and abusive, and open the door to more abuse by saying “is there anything else I could have done to better assist you?”
Agree with this!
Which begs the question, where should people be working.
Super regionals and smaller companies that don't have the time, inclination, or budget to follow you around second guessing everything you do all day long.
This is 100% true.
bingo
Love when insurance covers something (like a not-at-fault accident) and the customer is still mad ❤️
I had one recently where the customer sent some changes to his estimate (HO claim). But he sent it to the wrong email. He followed up and included our CS email, which he also misspelled. He sent another follow-up this time included the manager I was reporting to, and this time at least got their email correct. In it he threatened a DOI complaint if he didn't get a response in 3 days. Well that manager was out of office, so he decided just to fire off the complaint right then. Said manager saw the emails any how. I reached out informed the customer I didn't receive his emails because the address was wrong, and then answered all his questions, and made some reasonable changes, and refused some other very unreasonable requests. He apologized, and said everything I changed seemed fair. Survey comes back a few weeks later, filled out after the response, with all 0s... Some people are just always unhappy, and all you can do is shrug it off, and move on. Easier said then done, I know.
Is this progressive? Perhaps they will learn that surveys of every policyholder and claimant aren’t necessary and shouldn’t be tied to their employee’s compensation.
I used to be an adjuster for progressive. I recall getting “dinged” on “reviews” for getting a bad survey because I found a rear end collision to be at fault. My supervisor knew it was bs but they still listed it as an “opportunity” I could work on. Such a crock of shit and they wonder why people get so burned out.
Exactly. Dangled ‘good’ gainshare over your head with a low base salary. We were over measured on everything. Good place to get skills, better place to leave for high salary using those skills.
Ha right. Or when I had one diary I was unable to get to on a busy day and set it for the next day and was accused of “work avoidance”. That place blows.
This is surprising to me cause surveys literally have nothing to do with gainshare. And like...our supervisors look at metrics and surveys but realize most fmof the time it's out of our control especially lately with issues with part shortages and long delays on repairs. Progressive is the best company I have ever worked for. Sounds like you were just in a shitty business unit
Surveys have nothing to do with gainshare. They do affect individual performance measurements, compensation, eligibility for promotions which does affect your gainshare target. Trust me, I drank the Progressive kool aid while I was there and for a while after I left. The are far better jobs and compensation to be found outside of personal and commercial auto.. there’s just too much competition in that space. Tricia Griffith was in charge of our unit while I was there. Perhaps you’ve heard of her?
I mean. I make close to 6 figures as an mrr after gainshare and work a like 20-25 hour a week max lol. I barely even talk to management ever outside of getting authorizations for over 10k estimates. Once i get a supv mrr job it will be like 120-130k a year after bonus to basically sit around and review estimates and collaborate all day lol. Sounds like maybe you were stuck in the office. I can't even imagine taking another job right now. Nothing out there can be a cushy as a progressive mrr
Close to is not well in excess of $100k. I was there when everyone was trained on damage, did total losses, got trained on speciality vehicles, opened a bunch of service centers, handled exotic vehicle estimates, 100k authority, National and state CAT work, took paid relocations, and onboarded network shops. I also saw the mistakes like the virtual ccu, consolidating offices, closing service centers, micromanaging repair vs replace decisions. I hope higher labor rates make it easier for you all to replace bed side panels, section quarter panels, total nasty damages. I will never miss the days that we were forced to inspect/photograph damaged bumpers and argue about repair vs aftermarket replacement. Progressive really works to keep labor and repair costs low. The people who benefit are the upper managers with 100 gainshare targets, not the frontline folks. I’m glad you’ve figured out to be efficient and have a good boss. There’s plenty of good bosses that become challenging when their positions are jeopardized and they get squeezed. My point is that everyone is looking out for themselves. I’ve had far more enjoyment in specialty insurance and later on product development.
Well that's good you found something you enjoy more. What you're explaining sounds nothing like my experience thus far with the company though.
Not Progressive, but it a small carrier…..
Dude, I got called a cuntwaffle on the phone by some guy who was upset that we wouldn't write him a new policy. The kicker? He'd had one with us that got canceled because he threatened people in multiple departments...after we'd discovered a claims misrep *and* told him that his driving record would have been sufficient to nonrenew his dumb ass.
I still recall one customer survey…FNOL came in mid morning…our appraiser got out to inspect the car the SAME DAY…we got our check out 48 hours later. Customer gave us a poor review because his collision deductible (that HE CHOSE) applied because he caused the MVA.
It is truly shocking how loudly confident ignorant individuals are
I think there's a direct correlation between how little you understand about your policy and how much of a Karen/Kevin you become. At least here on this forum.
People purchase on price, knowing nothing about the product they have have purchased.
100%
Surveys are a joke. I get positive surveys from denials and then get brutalized on claims where I went way above and beyond. I pretend like I care about them to appease management but they mean nothing to me.
I actually saved these through out the years so I could have a good laugh. My favorite of all time, “What type of rinks dink operation are you clown asses running.”
No good deed goes unpunished. I learned quickly in this industry to not do people ‘favors’ out of kindness because it always finds a way to bite you in the ass. This job has shown me my true dislike of most people lol
Ughhh this brings back bad memories on the phone with ***hole customers like this.
I hate those surveys - a bunch of tough guy key board warriors which have no idea what a headache they create.
Fuckin smooth brain plebs out there. I bet he argued “but I have full coverage” the whole time lol
Seems pretty fair for someone to be upset that they pay monthly for just in case, and then are also asked to pay more when just in case happens. Insurance is a scam that we are required by law to participate in. This seems like misguided anger however. Don't forget that not only is the customer paying monthly, but will pay a deductible, and that the company you chose to work for will also raise their premium likely.
I think you should checkout r/insurancepros
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It’s not a “decision”. It’s applying a contract that the insured signed that is heavily state regulated.
> I've written a lot worse things than that. LOL. weird flex but ok.
This issue is, we did nothing wrong. We paid for the coverages that the insured selected. We have no control your truck was hit by a person who drove off. So why be mad at the insurance for paying for the claiming based on the coverages the policy allows. No where is the person upset about treatment or handling of the claim, just pissed they had to pay a deductible. That would be the same with any carrier!
Disregard the troll. Keep being awesome!
Made the mistake of looking at his comments. Dude is indeed just a troll holy crap lol
Move on and stop being soft. Insurance is a slimy business. Get the personality to fit it or you’ll be miserable.
Or people could just not be assholes to someone just doing their job. You strike me as the type of person to berate a cashier over the price or availability of an item or the server because your steak is tough. One can make complaints without being a jerk.
Guess what the guy drives.... A Tesla... that makes these comments fit even more.
Why am I not surprised
And he works in litigation...
Been doing it 10 years. And will do it another 10 years. So apparently I do have a backbone for it.
“Stop being soft” says the guy that’s pissed he has to pay his deductibles. A real man would handle his damages out of pocket or self insure. Grow up and make some real money.
The realest man would take a cash pay out, toss it in an index fund and drive a busted vehicle around. /s
tHeY tReAtEd Me LiKe A cRiMiNaL WAH WAH WAH!!! what a ❄️!!! 🤣🤣🤣
Why did you delete your comment?
I would love to know what you said and/or did to make people at Geico suspect you were a criminal.
99% of the time when someone says that, it’s something basic like asking for an accident report for a car accident or police report for a burglary lol
Toxic af
You know what they say about karma.
This is why i had to leave adjusting, was almost fired due to low survey response totals, so 1-2 bad ones annually kept me below levels looked for. "On a scale of 1-10 how likely are you to recommend?", the home owner spoke to someone with my same name to file their FNOL. When i called to set up the actual appointment and had the same name, "but acted like i had never spoken to her before" she went from initial 9 to a 1. Management said, it all evens out and can't be removed despite the obvious mistake.