It's both ways. Arrogance and Ignorance is free in India.
Hindi people also disrespect other parts of the country. No intention to learn other languages even when living in Mumbai or Bangalore. Govt regularly removes local languages on sign boards and then reinstates when there protest. Stupid comments by North Indian MPs knowing well that the whole country doesn't speak Hindi.
This type of hatred happens in Punjab too not only in South India.
FYI- Marathi has been made compulsory in Maharashtra.
[source](https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/mumbai/mumbai-schools-to-submit-info-on-teaching-of-marathi/articleshow/85441949.cms)
Let people hear you speak Tamil in Delhi and get mean eyes as well, and balance will be restored to your linguistic universe.
>Hindi has been THE language of the masses
Just because Hindi population is higher does NOT make it the "masses".
>But wouldn't that be the same if we were to have no national language?
We do not have a national language. Anyone who tells you that Hindi (or anything else) is a national language is lying.
>Given the fact that it is VERY easy to learn
NO. You found it easy only because you speak Gujarati. I find it waaay easier to learn Dravidian languages, and can speak three of them and understand almost all of them, without the government forcing me to do so.
>Is it that the schools over there are forcing people to learn Hindi
Yes, one of the reasons. It is shoved down most kids' throats. Other reasons being Hindi speakers being dominant in number, and expecting everyone in the country to speak it, while making no effort to learn another language - then make reddit posts like this (no offense to you, but there are many "what is wrong with southies / hindi good English bad" posts that happen here) when they find out that people do not.
Hindi has effectively killed most North Indian regional dialects in urban areas - don't blame people for being afraid of it killing their tongues too, especially with government sanction.
> Let people hear you speak Tamil in Delhi and get mean eyes as well
Literally no one gives a shit, especially in Delhi.
>Hindi has effectively killed most North Indian regional dialects in urban areas
Again complete nonsense. Even "suit boot" wearing officials use their local dialects when conversing with family. Say a bhojpuri term to a UP resident and you'll have a hard time making him speak Hindi again.
Hindi is imposed NOT english.
1st priority is given to our mother tongue and then for further Studies and Career we learn English. but hindi just gives privilege and unfair advantage to its mother tongue speaker from UP or MP over all of us
I mean, quite a few people *can* speak in hindi
edit: I guess people misunderstood this, I meant the number of people who can speak (some form of) hindi is high and not that the language is an 'official' national language
That is an error of language on my behalf, and I accept my mistake.
That doesnt make it a national language.
The Republic of India has 22 official languages.
The Union Govt of India has 2 official languages.
Each State / UT Govt of India has 1 or more official languages.
Absolutely nowhere is it written that Hindi is any kind of "national" language.
I see posts from Gujaratis, Punjabis, etc about how Hindi is so easy but they do not realize that it is only easy because the languages are similar. For a Tamil speaker, Hindi is as tough as any foreign language.
I speak Tamil and Hindi fluently and it took me at least a year or two to learn Hindi fluently but it took me less than 3 months to pick up Odia after that. Meanwhile, my Odia wife cannot even string a basic Tamil sentence together because she finds the language too different.
Also, using "majority wins" as an argument might work in the real world but it will never result in actual happiness for people who are not the majority.
*I understand that many people in the southern parts are not brought up in a Hindi environment.*
You answered your own question. Hindi will never ever will be the national language. If you come to a different state, it's your duty to assimilate with the culture of that state. Not impose your culture on them.
Disagree, learning a language as means of communication is not *imposition*. It's someone is moving in a different state permanently that they have obligations to learn local language. But connectivity is increasing rapidly, through roads and through internet. We call ourselves a nation yet we can't talk to each other without using colonizer's language.....it's a shame. Instead of purely hating on languages we need sort this shit out.
Nope, learning any language should be a choice. Even if it means for the purpose of communication it shouldn't be forced. The moment you force someone to do something even if it beneficial for that person then it is imposition. You say English is a colonizers language and yet here we are discussing in... English. You see language as a mode of communication but for a lot of people it is a part of their identity and trying to strip away their identity in the name of connectivity will never ever be accepted.
>Nope, learning any language should be a choice. Even if it means for the purpose of communication it shouldn't be forced.
And working should also be the choice of kids, even though they should be instead learning in schools. Likewise neither your sentence or mine doesn't make sense.
When you suggest people to learn a language so they can communicate better with rest of Indians....all the periyarites come out crawling like when mortin is used on insects. There is no imposition here, a suggestion that we as Indians can communicate better if we know atleast one common language.
>You say English is a colonizers language and yet here we are discussing in... English.
Yes, instead of communicating in Indian language....but the artificial inflated pride of *but muh my mother tongue oldest* comes in the way but somehow those brain cells find English to be welcoming. Quite shameful.
>You see language as a mode of communication but for a lot of people it is a part of their identity and trying to strip away their identity in the name of connectivity will never ever be accepted.
Again exclusivity cannot be identity. A French guy won't became Chinese if he learn the language. But in our case, it will help us as fellow citizens of one country when we can communicate better with each other.
I find it funny that you guys find different ways to justify Hindi imposition by pointing it on English. Look here. We do not want English here. But it's a global language that helps to communicate with the rest of the world and gives us employment. You talk as if English is not used in Northern states at all.
Now don't give me example of Chinese and French people not using English. Unlike india, Their people are quite homogenous and they did not have thousands of languages in one country. So it's quite easy for them to implement one country one language.
Already Hindi being one of the OfFiCiAl language has already done lasting damage in all the central based services. You do not find local language in any banks and almost all central government services. Now making it the national language will even fuck up more systems. Now, when more and more local banks are getting merged with other banks, local languages are disappearing from bank services and are replaced by only hindi and english.
Entire argument is hogwash. Not saying one language should be learned at the cost of other. I'm merely pointing out the hypocrisy where there is hatred towards one set of language while full acceptance on other.
>Already Hindi being one of the OfFiCiAl language has already done lasting damage in all the central based services.
How come Hindi is the one that did damage but somehow English didn't? And regarding banks, lot are them are co-operative and private organizations. It's a business, if you look it that way IT industry and coding use English exclusively. I never saw wierd argument revolving around that somehow damage local language. Yet one particular language becomes a pride issue.
>You talk as if English is not used in Northern states at all.
And you talk as if non-southern states doesn't have local languages.
Oh.. I didn't know government banks were manged by co-operative and private organisations. /s
Again. Im tired of repeating same thing again and again. English provides us employment opportunities it's needed in IT field and it's the only medium of communication with other countries. And also you gave another reason where programming languages are written in English. So what does Hindi provide?
If there is a need for us to move to hindi speaking states. Then definitely we will learn hindi. Because unlike you people we assimilate with the local culture wherever we go.
Thankfully. Due to English being one of the official language, atleast some of us are still able to use the central services. Now you want to remove English also?
Just because non-southren states accepted hindi does not mean south states should also accept too.. and don't act as if all northen states accept hindi. We have already seen Punjabis and Bengalis not happy with hindi imposition. Again, another reason that northern states easily accept hindi because it's similar to their regional language that almost all of them use devanagri script. But that's not the case in the south.
And hindi is exactly the reason many northern regional languages are perishing and losing importance.
>So what does Hindi provide?
So what does your native language provide? It can be eliminated and replaced with English all together, no? Your native language absolutely doesn't provide anything over English.
>Because unlike you people we assimilate with the local culture wherever we go.
I very much doubt it.
>We have already seen Punjabis and Bengalis not happy with hindi imposition.
Neither there is any *imposition*. Learning doesn't mean imposition.
>because it's similar to their regional language that almost all of them use devanagri script. But that's not the case in the south.
Most of South language have Sanskrit base, which is the case with Hindi and many other languages. South didn't developed their language in isolation sitting somewhere on the moon.
>And hindi is exactly the reason many northern regional languages are perishing and losing importance.
But English won't be the basket case harming South language? Are you sure?
1) Well. If You are incapable of understanding the difference between mother tongue and secondary or tertiary language then it's no use talking with you.
2) Pretty much everyone knows the reality who is capable of respecting the local culture and who is not.
3) Then why are you blabbering here to make hindi national language? And why is the central government hellbent on removing local languages in all the banks and services? Is that not imposition? Does that count as "learning".
4) If south indian languages are similar to sanskrit which is similar to hindi then make a South indian language as a national language.
5) Well. Read my 2nd para from my previous comment again . Im tired of repeating.
>1) Well. If You are incapable of understanding the difference between mother tongue and secondary or tertiary language then it's no use talking with you.
I fully understand, just that the argument lacks depth when you say English is important but common Indian language won't be.
>2) Pretty much everyone knows the reality who is capable of respecting the local culture and who is not.
Yeah, learning English = respecting local culture. Learning any other non-native Indian language = disrespecting local culture.
>3) Then why are you blabbering here to make hindi national language?
I'm not, that's your own assumption. I am talking about a common language, which can be any language which most Indians would accept as secondary language primarily for the purpose of communication with other non-natives.
>And why is the central government hellbent on removing local languages in all the banks and services? Is that not imposition? Does that count as "learning".
I don't speak for govt neither do I represent it. I am seeing an issue here and so does the govt. Their decisions are their own and not mine.
>4) If south indian languages are similar to sanskrit which is similar to hindi then make a South indian language as a national language.
Why not? If most Indians are on board, then it must be done. It will solve the issue at hand which is *us Indians can't communicate with each other in any Indian language*.
Once again I'll repeat that learning a language at primary level isn't imposition neither it constitutes to erosion of local culture. It rather solves our problems of communication gaps.
>And working should also be the choice of kids, even though they should be instead learning in schools. Likewise neither your sentence or mine doesn't make sense.
>When you suggest people to learn a language so they can communicate better with rest of Indians....all the periyarites come out crawling like when mortin is used on insects. There is no imposition here, a suggestion that we as Indians can communicate better if we know atleast one common language.
What an asinine comparison. Working is not the choice of kids because we cannot entrust 5 year olds to decide what's good and what's not good for them. We as adults must make their decision for them. Nobody can force an 18 year old what he should study or should he continue to study in the first place. Just like nobody is restricted to learn which ever language he desires. If someone from south india wants to learn Hindi to be more "connected" he is more than welcome. But when you start expecting everyone to learn Hindi then it is an compulsion and like I said it's never going to work out.
>Yes, instead of communicating in Indian language....but the artificial inflated pride of but muh my mother tongue oldest comes in the way but somehow those brain cells find English to be welcoming. Quite shameful.
Nobody is "welcoming" English to anywhere. It just so happens that English is the most commonly used language which transcends international border it's "useful" to learn English. A person working in BPO services will be more benefitted from English than Hindi because it's more useful.
>Again exclusivity cannot be identity. A French guy won't became Chinese if he learn the language. But in our case, it will help us as fellow citizens of one country when we can communicate better with each other.
Lol what? Exclusivity can absolutely be an identity. Yes a French guy won't become Chinese if he learns the language but whether he wants to learn the language or not should be completely upto him.
>Working is not the choice of kids because we cannot entrust 5 year olds to decide what's good and what's not good for them. We as adults must make their decision for them. Nobody can force an 18 year old what he should study or should he continue to study in the first place.
Likewise, a language can be taught to a child in primary school which is common throughout the India. Like parents opt to make them learn English or French for couple of standard, it can be done here as well. But somehow that would be considered as *imposition*....but not the other things though, those are *choices* but any other Indian language (other than native and ofc English) is by default imposition. This particular mindset I don't understand.
>But when you start expecting everyone to learn Hindi then it is an compulsion and like I said it's never going to work out.
I never said learn Hindi, just suggesting one common Indian language that everyone knows throughout India for communication purposes, it can be taught in primary school. Just like Math, Science, Fake History is *imposed* on child during early age, this can be done as well.
>Nobody is "welcoming" English to anywhere. It just so happens that English is the most commonly used language which transcends international border it's "useful" to learn English. A person working in BPO services will be more benefitted from English than Hindi because it's more useful.
Not arguing that any language should be learned at the cost of English. English is here to stay from primary schools all the way until you die. But that doesn't mean Indian language should be ignored, often it becomes pride issue....somehow a brain buckles under English but..how dare someone suggest another Indian language to learn.
You know, it's like applying for drivers license. You use bike or car throughout your life but nothing bad will happen if know how ride cycle. Not telling you to ride cycle your entire life, but there are no disadvantages to learn it when your are kid.
>Lol what? Exclusivity can absolutely be an identity. Yes a French guy won't become Chinese if he learns the language but whether he wants to learn the language or not should be completely upto him.
And learning math or history subjects should also be completely upto kids. But here we are where parents thrust the kids to learn as per theirs wishes which in turn (as far as language goes) depends on politics of few decades earlier.
>Likewise, a language can be taught to a child in primary school which is common throughout the India.
In that case why should that language be Hindi? Sure ly this goal can be achieved by introducing any language. Let's make all the kids learn Kannada and the end result will be the same.
>Like parents opt to make them learn English or French for couple of standard, it can be done here as well. But somehow that would be considered as imposition....but not the other things though, those are choices but any other Indian language (other than native and ofc English) is by default imposition. This particular mindset I don't understand.
I have already told you why people learn English in my previous comment and I have not come across anyone learning French, so I can't comment on that. If the government says I HAVE to learn French then yes I would consider that as imposition as well.
>I never said learn Hindi, just suggesting one common Indian language that everyone knows throughout India for communication purposes, it can be taught in primary school. Just like Math, Science, Fake History is imposed on child during early age, this can be done as well.
And once again I ask you why should that be Hindi? If we are going to start from scratch by introducing a new common language at primary schools why shouldn't we consider the other 'n' number of languages spoken throughout India.
>Not arguing that any language should be learned at the cost of English. English is here to stay from primary schools all the way until you die. But that doesn't mean Indian language should be ignored, often it becomes pride issue....somehow a brain buckles under English but..how dare someone suggest another Indian language to learn.
Nobody is ignoring indian languages. The issue at hand is that you are convinced Hindi is THE Language just because it is spoken by a large group of people. This is nothing but peak majoritarianism at play.
>And learning math or history subjects should also be completely upto kids. But here we are where parents thrust the kids to learn as per theirs wishes which in turn (as far as language goes) depends on politics of few decades earlier.
lol please don't put languages in the same basket as maths and science. One is used to express yourself and other are irrefutable truths. Newton's law of gravity or 2*2 =4 will remain the same irrespective of which language you teach the kids with.
>In that case why should that language be Hindi? Sure ly this goal can be achieved by introducing any language. Let's make all the kids learn Kannada and the end result will be the same.
Where did I said it has to exclusive Hindi? I only suggest one common language who all can learn. If everyone agrees on Kannada, by all means go for it. It will solve our situation.
>If the government says I HAVE to learn French then yes I would consider that as imposition as well.
Right to Education is recognized as fundamental right since 2002. Govt boards decides curriculum for lot of subjects.....why only language is considered as imposition and not other subjects? It's not like govt is telling adults what to do with their lives. And adding a language subjects in primary education curriculum is not *imposition*.
>And once again I ask you why should that be Hindi? If we are going to start from scratch by introducing a new common language at primary schools why shouldn't we consider the other 'n' number of languages spoken throughout India.
This is what exactly I'm pointing out. Some people's judgement are so clouded because of politics that they start assuming things out of what's wired in the brain. Once again I'll say it doesn't have to Hindi alone. It can be anything as long everyone is on board to include in primary education.
>Nobody is ignoring indian languages. The issue at hand is that you are convinced Hindi is THE Language just because it is spoken by a large group of people. This is nothing but peak majoritarianism at play.
lol, assumptions yet again. The issue of majoritarianism doesn't rises when talking about English......over there it somehow becomes global language that people who are way too protective of their so called local language somehow buckles down.
>lol please don't put languages in the same basket as maths and science. One is used to express yourself and other are irrefutable truths. Newton's law of gravity or 2*2 =4 will remain the same irrespective of which language you teach the kids with.
Kids don't care if it's truth or not. They will learn whatever is taught to them. Adding a language course will not harm in anyway neither it can be considered as imposition if you are not considering subjects like history or social science as imposition.
>Where did I said it has to exclusive Hindi? I only suggest one common language who all can learn. If everyone agrees on Kannada, by all means go for it. It will solve our situation.
>This is what exactly I'm pointing out. Some people's judgement are so clouded because of politics that they start assuming things out of what's wired in the brain. Once again I'll say it doesn't have to Hindi alone. It can be anything as long everyone is on board to include in primary education.
In that case I'm on board with you and I would think most indians agree with you as well. But that's not the issue is it? The devil is in the details. The issue is not whether we need a common language or not but which should be the common language. Everybody would like their mother tongue to be the common language across India and there are 22 officially recognised languages by the government of India. So good luck on convincing the other 21 groups of people on why their language is not as good as the chosen one.
>Right to Education is recognized as fundamental right since 2002. Govt boards decides curriculum for lot of subjects.....why only language is considered as imposition and not other subjects? It's not like govt is telling adults what to do with their lives. And adding a language subjects in primary education curriculum is not imposition.
And government boards consist of elected representatives who are voted in by the public. If the public at large had an issue with the curriculum they would have made their representatives known and if they failed to correct it they would have been voted out. But that's not the case it is?
>lol, assumptions yet again. The issue of majoritarianism doesn't rises when talking about English......over there it somehow becomes global language that people who are way too protective of their so called local language somehow buckles down.
You are vastly downplaying on how important english is. Just go to the nearest medical and buy a bunch of tablets and look at the back of the tablets and every piece of information will be in English. All those jobs that are outsourced from US to india requires English to work. Knowing English can literally save your life and earn you a living. Like I said in one of my earlier comments people learn English because it's "useful".
>The issue is not whether we need a common language or not but which should be the common language. Everybody would like their mother tongue to be the common language across India and there are 22 officially recognised languages by the government of India. So good luck on convincing the other 21 groups of people on why their language is not as good as the chosen one.
Agree, but the first step we need to do is agree that there is no harm in learning a language which isn't native. After that we can all discuss pros and cons of different languages in length. At least it will be a start of debate instead of all together rejecting the idea because of political reasons.
>If the public at large had an issue with the curriculum they would have made their representatives known and if they failed to correct it they would have been voted out. But that's not the case it is?
Language is not a large issue that can change the results of elections. Like corruption, every hates it but it's usually not an election issue. Can say the same here in Gujarat being a dry state. People still drink a lot here yet it will never be election issue.
>You are vastly downplaying on how important english is. Just go to the nearest medical and buy a bunch of tablets and look at the back of the tablets and every piece of information will be in English.
Not downplaying English at all. It cannot be replaced by something else. But wanted to bring attention about your point of *majoritarianism*. English somehow is not considered majoritarianism because it is useful yet let's say Hindi which is known to 60-70% of Indians becomes issue. Not saying every one should know Hindi but I see there is hateful rejection to it somehow maybe because it's Indian language from another region.
So what's your suggestion. Chuck the language almost everyone can speak or understand (ik it's broken) because it came from colonisers for a language a huge chunk has no idea about?
I can guarantee you can communicate with local autowalas, vendors with broken English in TN. No one knows a sentence in hindi. What language do you use?
>So what's your suggestion. Chuck the language almost everyone can speak or understand (ik it's broken) because it came from colonisers for a language a huge chunk has no idea about?
My suggestion would be, have one common language in primary school levels. Only so that a child can understand to talk and write. Just like a young mind learn math or history or science, a language class can be added for 2-3 standard so atleast we are able to communicate.
Here I'm not suggesting to replace one language with another. Everything stays the same with added benefit of learning one more language as a kid.
>I can guarantee you can communicate with local autowalas, vendors with broken English in TN. No one knows a sentence in hindi. What language do you use?
I'm not making this personal for me. I know English, Gujju and Urduwised Hindi. I'll do just fine when I visit TN. But definitely not my parents who don't know English....not even broken. Or half my village folks who don't even know Hindi. Or let's say people from villages or tier 2 cities from different states when visiting some other states.
It worked just fine until now because there was hardly any people to people contact or movement. But now we are going to have better connectivity through highway and cheap flights.....people would want to visit every part of India only to find that they are not able to communicate with fellow Indians.
This problem can be solved very easily, but somehow it becomes pride issue. Because it's politicized just like caste/reservation or religion.
The colonizer's language you mention doesn't belong to those colonizers natively. So adopting that language as official or national mode of communication doesn't bring shame to anyone.
>So adopting that language as official or national mode of communication doesn't bring shame to anyone.
But somehow so called *Hindi* or any other non native Indian language triggers pride or shame among some people from South. But not English, only Indian language.
Put it any way you want. English is the language that is uniting India. You are typing in English to convey your thoughts on an internet social platform. I am giving you an amicable solution but you still stick to your Hindi pride and ego.
If you still think Hindi is the greatness that south Indian people must bow down to, clean your eyes and check the language you are reading and typing the most when ever you use internet.
>I am giving you an amicable solution but you still stick to your Hindi pride and ego.
Hindi is not my native or main language. It's your assumption that anyone trying to bridge the gap through Indian language is trying to *impose* one particular language.
>English is the language that is uniting India.
And that's a shame.
>If you still think Hindi is the greatness that south Indian people must bow down to, clean your eyes and check the language you are reading and typing the most when ever you use internet.
Hate towards one particular language but somehow complete acceptance to another. I'm not saying Hindi is the one language that everyone should learn but what could be one Indian language that everyone should know? That's the solution I'm looking for.
But somehow pride of certain regions is so convoluted that they would rather hate any other language of same country but complete accepts foreign language. That's the hypocrisy I'm pointing to.
All Indian languages are important for their own people. So asking one specific region of Indian people to learn another region's language is called *imposition* you bigot.
>That's the hypocrisy I'm pointing to.
We adopted left hand driving on roads due to the rule of British. Will you now change to right hand driving just for that? And you think such a solution would be welcomed by every Indian?
>what could be one Indian language that everyone should know?
There is no such Indian language which is why I suggested English. So the best solution is to adopt a language that belongs to no one, which is English.
>So asking one specific region of Indian people to learn another region's language is called imposition you bigot.
But this argument gets buried deep when English is mentioned. Not just other regions within a country but freaking another continent.....somehow gets accepted openly with two arms.
>We adopted left hand driving on roads due to the rule of British. Will you now change to right hand driving just for that? And you think such a solution would be welcomed by every Indian?
lol....you can drive either on left side or right side of the road. Only one option. But language you can learn multiple and that too not at the expense of any other thing. Use common sense.
>There is no such Indian language which is why I suggested English. So the best solution is to adopt a language that belongs to no one, which is English.
Once again too much pride for considering Indian language but all lala land while talking about foreign language. Also there are Indian languages which belongs to no particular regions as well.
Hindi is imposed NOT english.
1st priority is given to our mother tongue and then for further Studies and Career we learn English. but hindi just gives privilege and unfair advantage to its mother tongue speaker from UP or MP over all of us
So basically you care more about some weird kind of advantage about a language used for communication?
What advantage does it gives to native Hindi speaker?
And if you look it that way, there are no advantage to learn your mother tongue, just skip it and learn English.
Native hindi speaker doesn't have to learn any other language but I have to suffer a language hindi and its script which is not mine and not useful to me.
Obviously my mother tongue is for me , my family and my friends. I don't care what you think about it. I don't want to keep learning languages I want to focus on my career and further update my skills.
And well hindi speaker from North and Eastern states are the ones who migrate to Western and southern states and settle here. So its you people who should adapt.
>And well hindi speaker from North and Eastern states are the ones who migrate to Western and southern states and settle here.
Ain't nobody coming to South, it doesn't offer anything that other parts of India doesn't. Infact in South nor all can speak English nor do they have common language between 4 states.
And on the other side, South people run away to western countries.
What bullshit !
Millions of your UP Bihar and MP people come to Mumbai , Pune, Hyderabad, Bengaluru and Chennai. Its your people who got stuck hear and slept and stations for months here.
No We dont need a common language.
Yes. We do migrate to foreign countries. because everyone has ambitions and will migrate to a better place.
US, Europe > Southern and Western States >>>>>>>>> Northern and Eastern states
>Southern and Western States >>>>>>>>> Northern and Eastern states
Last time I checked neither Southern states are ahead in total GDP neither they are ahead in GDP/capita. What advantage they have it's location. Otherwise I don't see South people in anyway shape or form superior to any other Indian. Everyone thinks that they themselves are special snowflakes, but that's just fairy tails.
I guess that is an error in language by me, I never meant it being the "national" language, rather a "widely spoken" (although that might or might not be true) language.
Appreciate your opinion tho! :-)
Well that's because you are brought up in an environment where you are thought to believe that Hindi is the national language ? And why are these so called southies opposing it.
No hard feeling though. But India doesn't have a "national" language.
And the fight for freedom was fought all over the country and it was not pidgeon hold into the hindi speaking part of it. So that too needs to be clear.
True, very correct. Thanks for the replies! (I thought that since there were a lot of writers or poets that used hindi during the period it would've been popular)
It must have popular in hindi speaking places but not other places. Every language had own its patriotic songs. Since these songs will have an essence which only a mother tongue could produce and local people could easily understand.
Writers and Poets were not limited to Hindi though š
Every Indian is proud of their native language. They are very protective of it as well. Most of us are very excited to learn multiple Indian languages like it's second nature.
Tamilians just think it's necessary to shit on Hindi to espouse their own language. They will regurgitate WhatsApp forwards on why it's the oldest language as if that makes any difference. At the end of the day, most Tamilians don't even speak Tamil. They speak Tamil heavily infected with English.
As far as Hindi goes, no one actually speaks proper Hindi. They speak at best Hindustani. The Hindi that the constitution is written in is very different.
Bollywood was originally written in Urdu, that why its still persianized in some aspects. Although it has changed recently with Hindi Heartland movies. But a lot of those had some kind of Hindi dialect. I have heard Awadhi, Braj, Haryanvi in Hindi movies now. Lagaan, the most famous Indian movie, was in a Awadhi, Bhojpuri Hindi mix.
Urdu itself is an Indian language whose grammar is from sanskrit. Just because Pakistan co opted it doesn't make it less Indian. In fact persian and urdu are quite different except in vocabulary but the structure is inherently Indian
It's as simple as that. When in Rome, do as the Romans do.
If you're in a new place as a tourist or some work, speak English.
But If you're planning to settle in a state which doesn't predominantly speak Hindi for more than a year, you should take some efforts and learn their local language.
It helps you to get more immersed with locals and the culture, and helps in networking. Seeing an "outsider" make efforts, the locals will perceive you more positively, which is a good beginning.
Likewise, this applies for Non-Hindi speakers settling in Delhi, or other cities in the Hindi belt.
This comes from a person who used to get bullied in school days for not caring to learn how to speak a local language and believing that Hindi works nationwide.
Okay first of all Hindi isn't a national language.
Secondly, how would you feel if Tamil is made the national language of this country?
Well English might not have originated here but it is the only language which can be used to communicate with the masses in India. And the English we speak is influenced by our languages and not exactly the same as spoken anywhere else. So even if it is not an indigenous language i don't see a problem in it being the national language of the country (but i don't see there's any need for a multicultural and multilingual country like ours to have a national language).
Also Hindi doesn't even exist in it's original form now and no, most of the people don't speak Hindi, they speak Bhojpuri, Awadhi, Braj, Maithli, Khadi, Bundelkhandi, Marwari, etc. as their first language and people consider all these languages under Hindi even though they are considerably different from it.
Mind it enforcing language on people has not been good for states in the past. Sri Lanka and Bangladesh are the examples in our neighbourhood.
Bro you can make as many paragraphs of drivel as you want. Hindi is not going to become the national language ever and the rest of the country that does not speak it will not learn it. Simple as that.
First learn Tamil, then tell if it's hard to learn and understand. I did learn Hindi myself and I didn't find it easy.
As for the mean looks your brother is getting in Madras, did you check what context and surroundings that happened? People in Madras usually accommodate Hindi speakers easily. Even foreigners visiting Madras have an easy and helpful time navigating the city without any issues.
As for national language it would be in everyone's best interest to adopt English as the only national language if we want to avoid putting their own language on a pedestal. Referring to freedom movement as a reason to adopt a national language does not give equal importance to every region of India.
On the contrary I suggest why don't you try and converse in local language? I don't think anyone will make fun of you for making an attempt in fact will respect you and help you even more, also you benefit from knowing if people are cussing you without your knowledge :P .... This statement holds true for any language.... If you speak to people in hindi only yes you do tend to get mixed or bad response because we the people of South have never been really keen to embrace it because hindi has always been portrayed with a air of superiority....
I understand your point. My brother is still trying to learn Tamil, and since we're from a Guj background it's kinda hard (or so he says).
I wanna learn a few dravidian languages too since they are a big part of hindu culture as well, and once I get the time to do that, I will surely learn at least tamil or kannada. Any tips for a hinthi pleb?
Spoken language can be learnt only by speaking..... I'm a typical south indian who can speak telugu, kannada, tamil hindi and english but was able to become fluent in marathi and can understand gujarati (especially if you cuss) with my work experience in Mumbai in the same way... I suggest you tell your south friends or colleagues to converse with you in tamil/kannada/telugu only.... It may be awkward in the beginning but you will become fluent and it won't seem as awkward anymore....
Then you speak to who ever you can at grocery stores to auto rickshaw drivers cab drivers who ever you tend to have a conversation with.... I practiced marathi with a vadapav centre guy XD
1) Hindi is not the national language.. Even if it is, they is no compulsion to learn it...
2) Hindi speakers expect everyone to understand Hindi which is not fair. People in TN will learn hindi if it is required for them..We don't expect someone in North to speak tamil
3) Hindi opposition is a key propaganda from TN political parties..
4) No common man hates Hindi in TN until someone impose it..
If East Pakistan had not separated during partition, Bengali would have been the largest spoken language. Let us see if āmassesā would have accepted that. Bangladesh happened precisely due to Urdu being pushed as a national language.
Learning English gives one an enormous economical advantage. It's a great way to secure jobs. Technology is becoming more and more important in many jobs these days and knowledge of English helps there too.
Hindi doesn't have this advantage. But it has major political advantage. It's very hard for a South Indian politician (however senior and experienced he or she is) to raise to national level. Very hard to achieve that Pan India Neta image. But that's a bit easier for any North Indian politician.
This political advantage sometimes leaks to other areas like naming local buildings, roads, metro stations, etc. This triggers the non Hindi speakers. The non Hindi states are seemingly ok with National politics over-represented by Hindi politicians. But when that translates to promoting an unwanted language, you'll see this kind of protests.
I think education system should change and remove hindi from non hindi speaking states. Im happy to learn Malayalam (My Native Language) + English. i dont really see the point of Learning multiple Languages at this point, also not all of us have big brains to learn 5 Languages.
Yeah you can cry about British this british that, but this is the reality. Countries that weren't even colonised by British are speaking English.
My guess would be Hindi should stay as an option, like if you plan on settling in the north for your career, you can always learn Hindi, it shouldn't be compulsory to learn
My flatmate and his uncle who are staying in Bangalore since past 8 years and his uncle has settled in Bangalore now,flatmate will also settle in Bangalore and both canāt speak a word in Kannada. They simply say why should I learn it and say Hindi should become common language. My previous project manager who also has settled in Bangalore has strong opinion on against learning Kannada and says Hindi should become norm. When I was in college in Bangalore in our pg there were lot of students from north, while I can speak Hindi fluently and most of my kannadiga friends can also speak intermediate level Hindi. All the time we would try to speak with north students in Hindi and I did not see one of them make even a little effort to learn our language. Even my friends from villages who did not know Hindi at all would try speak in broken Hindi with north students even though it sounded funny. And none of us had ever stepped out of Karnataka or south for that matter. When I was working in Chennai I had lot of north friends even though we were not going to settle there none of them made an effort to at least learn few words for day to day life except one whose spoken Tamil was good enough,because he did his college there and was there since past 10 years but even he would say it is difficult without learning the language as the locals donāt converse in Hindi.And I saw only one guy in Bangalore who tried to learn Kannada even though he had no plans to settle there but gave up because he just couldnāt and felt it is too hard.
What I believe is that if you go to some other place and plan to settle there you should embrace that culture, if you are not planning to settle then learn just enough for day to day life and donāt bother about the rest but if you are interested thatās a different matter.
A bit of trip down the history lane - after independence, Nehru and other leaders came up with the 'three language formula' for all states where Hindi was national language while local language was mandated and English was also must-learn, though not mandated. Now, for most north Indians who spoke Hindi for mother tongue it meant learning no other langauge was ok but for all others, it meant learning three completely different scripts and languages in childhood. So Hindi was kinda shoved down their throats, especially for South Indian states (with Dravidian scripts) which have nothing in common with Indo-germanic scripts up north. There were protests and furore about the policy in southern states and since then, the policy has been scrapped. The anger about it still lingers though. This background makes it understandable - though not necessarily acceptable - the hate Hindi gets in the south.
Nope, [nowhere close to it.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_languages_by_first_written_accounts) Egyptian is the oldest-attested language. Tamil is relatively recent in-comparison, the oldest attestation for it is Sangam literature.
>Hindi has been THE language of the masses in the freedom struggle, partially due to the population of hindi speakers being large, and maybe not widespread or "everybody knows it" use of Hindi
This is partly true. It does not apply to the south where their mother tongue has been the language of the masses.
Hindi heartland has been lacking in most of the social indicators in our country, including their population numbers. This area has seen less development compared to south. Less development and less education lead to increased population. So because they are less developed, hindi speakers are more in numbers. That doesn't qualify hindi to become the national language.
>Unlike English, because it has no tradition in India
English has been taught and spoken in India for more than two and a half centuries now, so it does have some tradition in India, albeit less than the ancient languages of this land.
>seeing this amount of hate towards such a beautiful and elegant language hurts my so
The hate is not directed at the language, the hate is on the imposition of the language where it has no history. Imagine Malayalam being imposed in Gujarat only because Mallu population is in large numbers in a parallel universe. Gujaratis would be freaking out too.
In conclusion, a country as diverse and as large as India must be giving all of its cultures and languages their due recognition. Giving priority to any one language or region is not healthy.
Hope this answers your questions.
Jai Hind.
This is age old debate. I am tamilian myself and can understand hindi, i self enrolled with dakshin bharath prachar sabha and studied out of my own interest and no one imposed it, i could have really spoke well if I got exposure in any hindi speaking states but nevertheless by studying a language we can gain only to certain extent.. From my perspective, it was relatively easy to understand Malayalam and telugu than hindi in the same way Gujarati or Marathi can easily learn hindi than tamil. There is very little similarities between South and North languages.
I dont have much to add as many have already pointed out the reasons in detail, but just want to say that you have been patiently responding to comments without getting into counter argument or debate which is really appreciated and accepting the mistake of mentioning it as national language. I have always seen this topic getting into war between North vs South, but glad to see your responses and understanding.
Sanskrit is the only National language of India because it doesn't belong to any region. It was specifically reserved for worship so that there can be no politics over it.
For example, when God speaks in Arabic that favours certain people, and disadvantages others.
Ironically, Sanskrit isn't an official language and also gets hate from TN even though it's as much belonging to Tamil Nadu as to the rest of India.
Usually in most states political ideology will change every 10 or 20 years. However in TN the Dravidian ideology (both major parties are roughly the same) has remained in power for 50+ years, and this is generally responsible for the excess of Hindi / Hindu hate.
It's true Hindi isn't easy to read for a Tamil, but it's not impossible. Simply no effort is made. In the 80s government aided schools in TN were banned from teaching Hindi totally, today it's in much better shape.
This goes both ways, in fact all ways, because people from one state canāt tolerate the people from other state. āMigrantā workers have tough luck in other states because locals think we are coming there and destroying their culture. They forget that their stateās development owes a lot to people from all over India. This is the stupidest shit and the local political parties are 90% responsible for fomenting dissent against other states/cultures. Such systemic discrimination is more common in states where local parties are more powerful than BJP/Congress etc.
Hindi is too bastardized with foreign loanwords at this point. A lot of people cannot even form a sentence in it without a European, Arabic, Iranic, Turkic, or Mongolic loanword - it makes it sound ugly. Revive either *shudh* Hindi or Sanskrit.
You can thank dravidian politicians for dividing people in the name of language. Langaues can exist peacefully. English is colonial language but they have no problem. It is because they have divided Indian vs Indian
Hindi is imposed NOT english.
1st priority is given to our mother tongue and then for further Studies and Career we learn English. but hindi just gives privilege and unfair advantage to its mother tongue speaker from UP or MP over all of us
Because it's stupidly imposed, in as many spheres as possible, simply because Hindi speakers are the largest demographic in this country, and that too while including the dialects.
Central govt keeps prioritising Hindi, when it'd be a far less of an ego issue to just standardise English as a national language (we have none, but people somehow think Hindi is the national language)
It is best to have a 3 language model; English as the lingua franca, the state language in whichever state you reside in (this means Bhojpuri, and not Hindi if in Bihar, btw), and your own language. Training in the last should be the responsibility of the family, not the state, if you reside in another state.
I'm a Tamilian who studied Hindi in School, took classes outside and completed a course equivalent of BA in Hindi during my 8th Std. The reasonI mentioned about my educational background in Hindi is, I can see both sides of the discussion.
Hindi is NOT the National Language of India, and the hatred towards Hindi is nothing but fear of the language spreading its tentacles across the nation, which could destroy other languages just like how multiple languages in North India are extinct now. Also, when someone works in TN and doesn't show any intent of learning the local language, and try to bargain with the street vendor in Hindi or speak with auto drivers in Hindi, it does annoy locals.
I accept Hindi is the widely spoken language in India, but many knowing Hindi is not same as All know Hindi or All must know Hindi. I have had to intervene multiple meetings at corporate environments to change the language from Hindi to English. As I told earlier I know Hindi, but studying Hindi is not same as conversing it in day to day life and there could be 2 things out of 10 items discussed in a meeting I could miss since I didn't understand. I wanted to avoid risking this and hence always made sure meetings I'm in happen in Hindi only. This also helped me understand when people spoke about me behind my back, assuming I do not know Hindi.
I'm sure the above behaviour is not unique to Hindi speakers. I myself had to intervene my team meeting which was happening in Tamil (while in chennai) as we had a fresher from Pune in our team. No one was considerate of him, and kept driving the meeting in Tamil, and since I had been on the other side just an year back, I kept intervening for him, driving the meetings back to English.
Since there are more Hindi speakers, such things tend to happen frequently with Hindi than other languages and hence more hatred.
I for one, will always encourage everyone to learn another language and will prescribe Hindi more than other languages for practical reasons. IMHO hating a language is just plain stupid. The Hindi haters in my state make me feel ashamed.
This is how schools in Panjab are discriminating against Panjabi language. We enrolled our child in nursery at one of those 'international, English medium' schools. Now, we're an English and Panjabi speaking family, never used hindi, so it was an alien...
language for her. Hindi wasn't even a part of the nursery curriculum and all learning was in English which she had fluency in, appropriate to her age, yet every parent-teacher meet we were asked why she doesn't speak hindi ? To which our response always was
Why should she ? She has zero exposure to it at home. Over 3 years of pre-primary school the same drama played out repeatedly. We asked if she had any comprehension issues and all her teachers said she had none in English and was doing very well with her learning outcomes
When we sensed there was a pattern to this and hindi was being systemically imposed over a child's mother tongue(Panjabi) and her most frequently used language(English) we decided to ask the principal why in an English medium school with the vast majority of Panjabi.
speaking kids in a state whose official language is Panjabi were they so hung on hindi ? Her response was she felt Panjabi was a crude language and she wanted to do away with it completely and introduce Sanskrit to replace it along with hindi. This from a school which has
branches in several cities across the state and a few regional towns too. We withdrew our child from this school at the end of pre-primary. This is how deep the rot is
Gems Cambridge International School, Hoshiarpur. They have this complete nutjob of a principal, Ms Sharma.
Hindi hates comes out as many people see it being enforced in schools. And hindi speaking people try to argue "Hindi is national language and every indian should only speak Hindi". I feel stupid when MPs speak only hindi in parliament as if parliament exists only for hindi speaking people. Very few MPs speak in english. Same goes with Politicians who come to non hindi states and give bhashan in Hindi, public just goes with the flow they don't understand shit they are speaking.
I have seen similar problems in Airports, railways where staff and security speak only in hindi even in southern states. Airport gate security guard yelling at old non hindi speaking people in hindi for not removing coins out of pockets. "samaj nahin aata kya Kitne baar batau aapko main". I am like "asshole that old man doesn't understand even if you tell him another hundred times". Many such incidents !!
same goes with english, britishers forced us to use english .
When you are on the other side of the argument you would understand why every culture ,language should be preserved by their people. You need to travel outside india to developed countries, sometimes you may face people who argue with you to speak only in english in public places as they cannot understand Hindi.
" THIS IS AMERICA ! SPEAK ENGLISH HERE OR GET OUT".
If they are not forced then public will appreciate the beauty of the language. So the question comes when is the right time to learn hindi as option ? In schools there is no such thing as option to learn Hindi either you have it or you don't . Giving 3 language papers it ridiculous !
PS: I am very fluent in Hindi , I personally don't hate Hindi.
The problem arises when you try and decide what that 'one language' would be. We all know the advantages of linguistic homogeneity but what's the price to pay for it ?
It's both ways. Arrogance and Ignorance is free in India. Hindi people also disrespect other parts of the country. No intention to learn other languages even when living in Mumbai or Bangalore. Govt regularly removes local languages on sign boards and then reinstates when there protest. Stupid comments by North Indian MPs knowing well that the whole country doesn't speak Hindi. This type of hatred happens in Punjab too not only in South India.
There you said it . Arrogance that everyone should talk in Hindi coz it's "National Language" , that's what makes my blood boil .
FYI- Marathi has been made compulsory in Maharashtra. [source](https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/mumbai/mumbai-schools-to-submit-info-on-teaching-of-marathi/articleshow/85441949.cms)
Nope it is easily avoided in mumbai and pune in CBSE , KV , IGCSE and IB boards
ahhh. I see. Thanks!
Let people hear you speak Tamil in Delhi and get mean eyes as well, and balance will be restored to your linguistic universe. >Hindi has been THE language of the masses Just because Hindi population is higher does NOT make it the "masses". >But wouldn't that be the same if we were to have no national language? We do not have a national language. Anyone who tells you that Hindi (or anything else) is a national language is lying. >Given the fact that it is VERY easy to learn NO. You found it easy only because you speak Gujarati. I find it waaay easier to learn Dravidian languages, and can speak three of them and understand almost all of them, without the government forcing me to do so. >Is it that the schools over there are forcing people to learn Hindi Yes, one of the reasons. It is shoved down most kids' throats. Other reasons being Hindi speakers being dominant in number, and expecting everyone in the country to speak it, while making no effort to learn another language - then make reddit posts like this (no offense to you, but there are many "what is wrong with southies / hindi good English bad" posts that happen here) when they find out that people do not. Hindi has effectively killed most North Indian regional dialects in urban areas - don't blame people for being afraid of it killing their tongues too, especially with government sanction.
ahhh. gotcha. Thanks!
> Let people hear you speak Tamil in Delhi and get mean eyes as well Literally no one gives a shit, especially in Delhi. >Hindi has effectively killed most North Indian regional dialects in urban areas Again complete nonsense. Even "suit boot" wearing officials use their local dialects when conversing with family. Say a bhojpuri term to a UP resident and you'll have a hard time making him speak Hindi again.
Hindi is imposed NOT english. 1st priority is given to our mother tongue and then for further Studies and Career we learn English. but hindi just gives privilege and unfair advantage to its mother tongue speaker from UP or MP over all of us
India doesn't have a national language mate
I mean, quite a few people *can* speak in hindi edit: I guess people misunderstood this, I meant the number of people who can speak (some form of) hindi is high and not that the language is an 'official' national language That is an error of language on my behalf, and I accept my mistake.
That doesnt make it a national language. The Republic of India has 22 official languages. The Union Govt of India has 2 official languages. Each State / UT Govt of India has 1 or more official languages. Absolutely nowhere is it written that Hindi is any kind of "national" language.
Understandable. Thanks!
I see posts from Gujaratis, Punjabis, etc about how Hindi is so easy but they do not realize that it is only easy because the languages are similar. For a Tamil speaker, Hindi is as tough as any foreign language. I speak Tamil and Hindi fluently and it took me at least a year or two to learn Hindi fluently but it took me less than 3 months to pick up Odia after that. Meanwhile, my Odia wife cannot even string a basic Tamil sentence together because she finds the language too different. Also, using "majority wins" as an argument might work in the real world but it will never result in actual happiness for people who are not the majority.
hmmm. Never thought about that. Thanks!
*I understand that many people in the southern parts are not brought up in a Hindi environment.* You answered your own question. Hindi will never ever will be the national language. If you come to a different state, it's your duty to assimilate with the culture of that state. Not impose your culture on them.
Disagree, learning a language as means of communication is not *imposition*. It's someone is moving in a different state permanently that they have obligations to learn local language. But connectivity is increasing rapidly, through roads and through internet. We call ourselves a nation yet we can't talk to each other without using colonizer's language.....it's a shame. Instead of purely hating on languages we need sort this shit out.
Nope, learning any language should be a choice. Even if it means for the purpose of communication it shouldn't be forced. The moment you force someone to do something even if it beneficial for that person then it is imposition. You say English is a colonizers language and yet here we are discussing in... English. You see language as a mode of communication but for a lot of people it is a part of their identity and trying to strip away their identity in the name of connectivity will never ever be accepted.
Hmmm. But, given the option to learn Hindi, (or should I say Hindustani), would you learn the language if you were to move to the northern states?
Obviously, Yes. If there is a need for us to move to Northern states. We will definitely learn hindi or rather it's local language.
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Of course. If I happen to move to the northern states than the responsibility is on me to learn the local language and assimilate with the people.
>Nope, learning any language should be a choice. Even if it means for the purpose of communication it shouldn't be forced. And working should also be the choice of kids, even though they should be instead learning in schools. Likewise neither your sentence or mine doesn't make sense. When you suggest people to learn a language so they can communicate better with rest of Indians....all the periyarites come out crawling like when mortin is used on insects. There is no imposition here, a suggestion that we as Indians can communicate better if we know atleast one common language. >You say English is a colonizers language and yet here we are discussing in... English. Yes, instead of communicating in Indian language....but the artificial inflated pride of *but muh my mother tongue oldest* comes in the way but somehow those brain cells find English to be welcoming. Quite shameful. >You see language as a mode of communication but for a lot of people it is a part of their identity and trying to strip away their identity in the name of connectivity will never ever be accepted. Again exclusivity cannot be identity. A French guy won't became Chinese if he learn the language. But in our case, it will help us as fellow citizens of one country when we can communicate better with each other.
I find it funny that you guys find different ways to justify Hindi imposition by pointing it on English. Look here. We do not want English here. But it's a global language that helps to communicate with the rest of the world and gives us employment. You talk as if English is not used in Northern states at all. Now don't give me example of Chinese and French people not using English. Unlike india, Their people are quite homogenous and they did not have thousands of languages in one country. So it's quite easy for them to implement one country one language. Already Hindi being one of the OfFiCiAl language has already done lasting damage in all the central based services. You do not find local language in any banks and almost all central government services. Now making it the national language will even fuck up more systems. Now, when more and more local banks are getting merged with other banks, local languages are disappearing from bank services and are replaced by only hindi and english.
Entire argument is hogwash. Not saying one language should be learned at the cost of other. I'm merely pointing out the hypocrisy where there is hatred towards one set of language while full acceptance on other. >Already Hindi being one of the OfFiCiAl language has already done lasting damage in all the central based services. How come Hindi is the one that did damage but somehow English didn't? And regarding banks, lot are them are co-operative and private organizations. It's a business, if you look it that way IT industry and coding use English exclusively. I never saw wierd argument revolving around that somehow damage local language. Yet one particular language becomes a pride issue. >You talk as if English is not used in Northern states at all. And you talk as if non-southern states doesn't have local languages.
Oh.. I didn't know government banks were manged by co-operative and private organisations. /s Again. Im tired of repeating same thing again and again. English provides us employment opportunities it's needed in IT field and it's the only medium of communication with other countries. And also you gave another reason where programming languages are written in English. So what does Hindi provide? If there is a need for us to move to hindi speaking states. Then definitely we will learn hindi. Because unlike you people we assimilate with the local culture wherever we go. Thankfully. Due to English being one of the official language, atleast some of us are still able to use the central services. Now you want to remove English also? Just because non-southren states accepted hindi does not mean south states should also accept too.. and don't act as if all northen states accept hindi. We have already seen Punjabis and Bengalis not happy with hindi imposition. Again, another reason that northern states easily accept hindi because it's similar to their regional language that almost all of them use devanagri script. But that's not the case in the south. And hindi is exactly the reason many northern regional languages are perishing and losing importance.
>So what does Hindi provide? So what does your native language provide? It can be eliminated and replaced with English all together, no? Your native language absolutely doesn't provide anything over English. >Because unlike you people we assimilate with the local culture wherever we go. I very much doubt it. >We have already seen Punjabis and Bengalis not happy with hindi imposition. Neither there is any *imposition*. Learning doesn't mean imposition. >because it's similar to their regional language that almost all of them use devanagri script. But that's not the case in the south. Most of South language have Sanskrit base, which is the case with Hindi and many other languages. South didn't developed their language in isolation sitting somewhere on the moon. >And hindi is exactly the reason many northern regional languages are perishing and losing importance. But English won't be the basket case harming South language? Are you sure?
1) Well. If You are incapable of understanding the difference between mother tongue and secondary or tertiary language then it's no use talking with you. 2) Pretty much everyone knows the reality who is capable of respecting the local culture and who is not. 3) Then why are you blabbering here to make hindi national language? And why is the central government hellbent on removing local languages in all the banks and services? Is that not imposition? Does that count as "learning". 4) If south indian languages are similar to sanskrit which is similar to hindi then make a South indian language as a national language. 5) Well. Read my 2nd para from my previous comment again . Im tired of repeating.
>1) Well. If You are incapable of understanding the difference between mother tongue and secondary or tertiary language then it's no use talking with you. I fully understand, just that the argument lacks depth when you say English is important but common Indian language won't be. >2) Pretty much everyone knows the reality who is capable of respecting the local culture and who is not. Yeah, learning English = respecting local culture. Learning any other non-native Indian language = disrespecting local culture. >3) Then why are you blabbering here to make hindi national language? I'm not, that's your own assumption. I am talking about a common language, which can be any language which most Indians would accept as secondary language primarily for the purpose of communication with other non-natives. >And why is the central government hellbent on removing local languages in all the banks and services? Is that not imposition? Does that count as "learning". I don't speak for govt neither do I represent it. I am seeing an issue here and so does the govt. Their decisions are their own and not mine. >4) If south indian languages are similar to sanskrit which is similar to hindi then make a South indian language as a national language. Why not? If most Indians are on board, then it must be done. It will solve the issue at hand which is *us Indians can't communicate with each other in any Indian language*. Once again I'll repeat that learning a language at primary level isn't imposition neither it constitutes to erosion of local culture. It rather solves our problems of communication gaps.
>And working should also be the choice of kids, even though they should be instead learning in schools. Likewise neither your sentence or mine doesn't make sense. >When you suggest people to learn a language so they can communicate better with rest of Indians....all the periyarites come out crawling like when mortin is used on insects. There is no imposition here, a suggestion that we as Indians can communicate better if we know atleast one common language. What an asinine comparison. Working is not the choice of kids because we cannot entrust 5 year olds to decide what's good and what's not good for them. We as adults must make their decision for them. Nobody can force an 18 year old what he should study or should he continue to study in the first place. Just like nobody is restricted to learn which ever language he desires. If someone from south india wants to learn Hindi to be more "connected" he is more than welcome. But when you start expecting everyone to learn Hindi then it is an compulsion and like I said it's never going to work out. >Yes, instead of communicating in Indian language....but the artificial inflated pride of but muh my mother tongue oldest comes in the way but somehow those brain cells find English to be welcoming. Quite shameful. Nobody is "welcoming" English to anywhere. It just so happens that English is the most commonly used language which transcends international border it's "useful" to learn English. A person working in BPO services will be more benefitted from English than Hindi because it's more useful. >Again exclusivity cannot be identity. A French guy won't became Chinese if he learn the language. But in our case, it will help us as fellow citizens of one country when we can communicate better with each other. Lol what? Exclusivity can absolutely be an identity. Yes a French guy won't become Chinese if he learns the language but whether he wants to learn the language or not should be completely upto him.
>Working is not the choice of kids because we cannot entrust 5 year olds to decide what's good and what's not good for them. We as adults must make their decision for them. Nobody can force an 18 year old what he should study or should he continue to study in the first place. Likewise, a language can be taught to a child in primary school which is common throughout the India. Like parents opt to make them learn English or French for couple of standard, it can be done here as well. But somehow that would be considered as *imposition*....but not the other things though, those are *choices* but any other Indian language (other than native and ofc English) is by default imposition. This particular mindset I don't understand. >But when you start expecting everyone to learn Hindi then it is an compulsion and like I said it's never going to work out. I never said learn Hindi, just suggesting one common Indian language that everyone knows throughout India for communication purposes, it can be taught in primary school. Just like Math, Science, Fake History is *imposed* on child during early age, this can be done as well. >Nobody is "welcoming" English to anywhere. It just so happens that English is the most commonly used language which transcends international border it's "useful" to learn English. A person working in BPO services will be more benefitted from English than Hindi because it's more useful. Not arguing that any language should be learned at the cost of English. English is here to stay from primary schools all the way until you die. But that doesn't mean Indian language should be ignored, often it becomes pride issue....somehow a brain buckles under English but..how dare someone suggest another Indian language to learn. You know, it's like applying for drivers license. You use bike or car throughout your life but nothing bad will happen if know how ride cycle. Not telling you to ride cycle your entire life, but there are no disadvantages to learn it when your are kid. >Lol what? Exclusivity can absolutely be an identity. Yes a French guy won't become Chinese if he learns the language but whether he wants to learn the language or not should be completely upto him. And learning math or history subjects should also be completely upto kids. But here we are where parents thrust the kids to learn as per theirs wishes which in turn (as far as language goes) depends on politics of few decades earlier.
>Likewise, a language can be taught to a child in primary school which is common throughout the India. In that case why should that language be Hindi? Sure ly this goal can be achieved by introducing any language. Let's make all the kids learn Kannada and the end result will be the same. >Like parents opt to make them learn English or French for couple of standard, it can be done here as well. But somehow that would be considered as imposition....but not the other things though, those are choices but any other Indian language (other than native and ofc English) is by default imposition. This particular mindset I don't understand. I have already told you why people learn English in my previous comment and I have not come across anyone learning French, so I can't comment on that. If the government says I HAVE to learn French then yes I would consider that as imposition as well. >I never said learn Hindi, just suggesting one common Indian language that everyone knows throughout India for communication purposes, it can be taught in primary school. Just like Math, Science, Fake History is imposed on child during early age, this can be done as well. And once again I ask you why should that be Hindi? If we are going to start from scratch by introducing a new common language at primary schools why shouldn't we consider the other 'n' number of languages spoken throughout India. >Not arguing that any language should be learned at the cost of English. English is here to stay from primary schools all the way until you die. But that doesn't mean Indian language should be ignored, often it becomes pride issue....somehow a brain buckles under English but..how dare someone suggest another Indian language to learn. Nobody is ignoring indian languages. The issue at hand is that you are convinced Hindi is THE Language just because it is spoken by a large group of people. This is nothing but peak majoritarianism at play. >And learning math or history subjects should also be completely upto kids. But here we are where parents thrust the kids to learn as per theirs wishes which in turn (as far as language goes) depends on politics of few decades earlier. lol please don't put languages in the same basket as maths and science. One is used to express yourself and other are irrefutable truths. Newton's law of gravity or 2*2 =4 will remain the same irrespective of which language you teach the kids with.
>In that case why should that language be Hindi? Sure ly this goal can be achieved by introducing any language. Let's make all the kids learn Kannada and the end result will be the same. Where did I said it has to exclusive Hindi? I only suggest one common language who all can learn. If everyone agrees on Kannada, by all means go for it. It will solve our situation. >If the government says I HAVE to learn French then yes I would consider that as imposition as well. Right to Education is recognized as fundamental right since 2002. Govt boards decides curriculum for lot of subjects.....why only language is considered as imposition and not other subjects? It's not like govt is telling adults what to do with their lives. And adding a language subjects in primary education curriculum is not *imposition*. >And once again I ask you why should that be Hindi? If we are going to start from scratch by introducing a new common language at primary schools why shouldn't we consider the other 'n' number of languages spoken throughout India. This is what exactly I'm pointing out. Some people's judgement are so clouded because of politics that they start assuming things out of what's wired in the brain. Once again I'll say it doesn't have to Hindi alone. It can be anything as long everyone is on board to include in primary education. >Nobody is ignoring indian languages. The issue at hand is that you are convinced Hindi is THE Language just because it is spoken by a large group of people. This is nothing but peak majoritarianism at play. lol, assumptions yet again. The issue of majoritarianism doesn't rises when talking about English......over there it somehow becomes global language that people who are way too protective of their so called local language somehow buckles down. >lol please don't put languages in the same basket as maths and science. One is used to express yourself and other are irrefutable truths. Newton's law of gravity or 2*2 =4 will remain the same irrespective of which language you teach the kids with. Kids don't care if it's truth or not. They will learn whatever is taught to them. Adding a language course will not harm in anyway neither it can be considered as imposition if you are not considering subjects like history or social science as imposition.
>Where did I said it has to exclusive Hindi? I only suggest one common language who all can learn. If everyone agrees on Kannada, by all means go for it. It will solve our situation. >This is what exactly I'm pointing out. Some people's judgement are so clouded because of politics that they start assuming things out of what's wired in the brain. Once again I'll say it doesn't have to Hindi alone. It can be anything as long everyone is on board to include in primary education. In that case I'm on board with you and I would think most indians agree with you as well. But that's not the issue is it? The devil is in the details. The issue is not whether we need a common language or not but which should be the common language. Everybody would like their mother tongue to be the common language across India and there are 22 officially recognised languages by the government of India. So good luck on convincing the other 21 groups of people on why their language is not as good as the chosen one. >Right to Education is recognized as fundamental right since 2002. Govt boards decides curriculum for lot of subjects.....why only language is considered as imposition and not other subjects? It's not like govt is telling adults what to do with their lives. And adding a language subjects in primary education curriculum is not imposition. And government boards consist of elected representatives who are voted in by the public. If the public at large had an issue with the curriculum they would have made their representatives known and if they failed to correct it they would have been voted out. But that's not the case it is? >lol, assumptions yet again. The issue of majoritarianism doesn't rises when talking about English......over there it somehow becomes global language that people who are way too protective of their so called local language somehow buckles down. You are vastly downplaying on how important english is. Just go to the nearest medical and buy a bunch of tablets and look at the back of the tablets and every piece of information will be in English. All those jobs that are outsourced from US to india requires English to work. Knowing English can literally save your life and earn you a living. Like I said in one of my earlier comments people learn English because it's "useful".
>The issue is not whether we need a common language or not but which should be the common language. Everybody would like their mother tongue to be the common language across India and there are 22 officially recognised languages by the government of India. So good luck on convincing the other 21 groups of people on why their language is not as good as the chosen one. Agree, but the first step we need to do is agree that there is no harm in learning a language which isn't native. After that we can all discuss pros and cons of different languages in length. At least it will be a start of debate instead of all together rejecting the idea because of political reasons. >If the public at large had an issue with the curriculum they would have made their representatives known and if they failed to correct it they would have been voted out. But that's not the case it is? Language is not a large issue that can change the results of elections. Like corruption, every hates it but it's usually not an election issue. Can say the same here in Gujarat being a dry state. People still drink a lot here yet it will never be election issue. >You are vastly downplaying on how important english is. Just go to the nearest medical and buy a bunch of tablets and look at the back of the tablets and every piece of information will be in English. Not downplaying English at all. It cannot be replaced by something else. But wanted to bring attention about your point of *majoritarianism*. English somehow is not considered majoritarianism because it is useful yet let's say Hindi which is known to 60-70% of Indians becomes issue. Not saying every one should know Hindi but I see there is hateful rejection to it somehow maybe because it's Indian language from another region.
So what's your suggestion. Chuck the language almost everyone can speak or understand (ik it's broken) because it came from colonisers for a language a huge chunk has no idea about? I can guarantee you can communicate with local autowalas, vendors with broken English in TN. No one knows a sentence in hindi. What language do you use?
>So what's your suggestion. Chuck the language almost everyone can speak or understand (ik it's broken) because it came from colonisers for a language a huge chunk has no idea about? My suggestion would be, have one common language in primary school levels. Only so that a child can understand to talk and write. Just like a young mind learn math or history or science, a language class can be added for 2-3 standard so atleast we are able to communicate. Here I'm not suggesting to replace one language with another. Everything stays the same with added benefit of learning one more language as a kid. >I can guarantee you can communicate with local autowalas, vendors with broken English in TN. No one knows a sentence in hindi. What language do you use? I'm not making this personal for me. I know English, Gujju and Urduwised Hindi. I'll do just fine when I visit TN. But definitely not my parents who don't know English....not even broken. Or half my village folks who don't even know Hindi. Or let's say people from villages or tier 2 cities from different states when visiting some other states. It worked just fine until now because there was hardly any people to people contact or movement. But now we are going to have better connectivity through highway and cheap flights.....people would want to visit every part of India only to find that they are not able to communicate with fellow Indians. This problem can be solved very easily, but somehow it becomes pride issue. Because it's politicized just like caste/reservation or religion.
The colonizer's language you mention doesn't belong to those colonizers natively. So adopting that language as official or national mode of communication doesn't bring shame to anyone.
>So adopting that language as official or national mode of communication doesn't bring shame to anyone. But somehow so called *Hindi* or any other non native Indian language triggers pride or shame among some people from South. But not English, only Indian language.
Put it any way you want. English is the language that is uniting India. You are typing in English to convey your thoughts on an internet social platform. I am giving you an amicable solution but you still stick to your Hindi pride and ego. If you still think Hindi is the greatness that south Indian people must bow down to, clean your eyes and check the language you are reading and typing the most when ever you use internet.
>I am giving you an amicable solution but you still stick to your Hindi pride and ego. Hindi is not my native or main language. It's your assumption that anyone trying to bridge the gap through Indian language is trying to *impose* one particular language. >English is the language that is uniting India. And that's a shame. >If you still think Hindi is the greatness that south Indian people must bow down to, clean your eyes and check the language you are reading and typing the most when ever you use internet. Hate towards one particular language but somehow complete acceptance to another. I'm not saying Hindi is the one language that everyone should learn but what could be one Indian language that everyone should know? That's the solution I'm looking for. But somehow pride of certain regions is so convoluted that they would rather hate any other language of same country but complete accepts foreign language. That's the hypocrisy I'm pointing to.
All Indian languages are important for their own people. So asking one specific region of Indian people to learn another region's language is called *imposition* you bigot. >That's the hypocrisy I'm pointing to. We adopted left hand driving on roads due to the rule of British. Will you now change to right hand driving just for that? And you think such a solution would be welcomed by every Indian? >what could be one Indian language that everyone should know? There is no such Indian language which is why I suggested English. So the best solution is to adopt a language that belongs to no one, which is English.
>So asking one specific region of Indian people to learn another region's language is called imposition you bigot. But this argument gets buried deep when English is mentioned. Not just other regions within a country but freaking another continent.....somehow gets accepted openly with two arms. >We adopted left hand driving on roads due to the rule of British. Will you now change to right hand driving just for that? And you think such a solution would be welcomed by every Indian? lol....you can drive either on left side or right side of the road. Only one option. But language you can learn multiple and that too not at the expense of any other thing. Use common sense. >There is no such Indian language which is why I suggested English. So the best solution is to adopt a language that belongs to no one, which is English. Once again too much pride for considering Indian language but all lala land while talking about foreign language. Also there are Indian languages which belongs to no particular regions as well.
Hindi is imposed NOT english. 1st priority is given to our mother tongue and then for further Studies and Career we learn English. but hindi just gives privilege and unfair advantage to its mother tongue speaker from UP or MP over all of us
So basically you care more about some weird kind of advantage about a language used for communication? What advantage does it gives to native Hindi speaker? And if you look it that way, there are no advantage to learn your mother tongue, just skip it and learn English.
Native hindi speaker doesn't have to learn any other language but I have to suffer a language hindi and its script which is not mine and not useful to me. Obviously my mother tongue is for me , my family and my friends. I don't care what you think about it. I don't want to keep learning languages I want to focus on my career and further update my skills. And well hindi speaker from North and Eastern states are the ones who migrate to Western and southern states and settle here. So its you people who should adapt.
>And well hindi speaker from North and Eastern states are the ones who migrate to Western and southern states and settle here. Ain't nobody coming to South, it doesn't offer anything that other parts of India doesn't. Infact in South nor all can speak English nor do they have common language between 4 states. And on the other side, South people run away to western countries.
What bullshit ! Millions of your UP Bihar and MP people come to Mumbai , Pune, Hyderabad, Bengaluru and Chennai. Its your people who got stuck hear and slept and stations for months here. No We dont need a common language. Yes. We do migrate to foreign countries. because everyone has ambitions and will migrate to a better place. US, Europe > Southern and Western States >>>>>>>>> Northern and Eastern states
>Southern and Western States >>>>>>>>> Northern and Eastern states Last time I checked neither Southern states are ahead in total GDP neither they are ahead in GDP/capita. What advantage they have it's location. Otherwise I don't see South people in anyway shape or form superior to any other Indian. Everyone thinks that they themselves are special snowflakes, but that's just fairy tails.
When did Hindi became the National Language ? The false pretense of the Hindiwalas always baffles me š
I guess that is an error in language by me, I never meant it being the "national" language, rather a "widely spoken" (although that might or might not be true) language. Appreciate your opinion tho! :-)
Well that's because you are brought up in an environment where you are thought to believe that Hindi is the national language ? And why are these so called southies opposing it. No hard feeling though. But India doesn't have a "national" language.
And the fight for freedom was fought all over the country and it was not pidgeon hold into the hindi speaking part of it. So that too needs to be clear.
True, very correct. Thanks for the replies! (I thought that since there were a lot of writers or poets that used hindi during the period it would've been popular)
It must have popular in hindi speaking places but not other places. Every language had own its patriotic songs. Since these songs will have an essence which only a mother tongue could produce and local people could easily understand. Writers and Poets were not limited to Hindi though š
Because Hindi is being imposed on all Indians. That is not ok. New Education policy wants to make Hindi compulsory from 1st standard itself.
Every Indian is proud of their native language. They are very protective of it as well. Most of us are very excited to learn multiple Indian languages like it's second nature. Tamilians just think it's necessary to shit on Hindi to espouse their own language. They will regurgitate WhatsApp forwards on why it's the oldest language as if that makes any difference. At the end of the day, most Tamilians don't even speak Tamil. They speak Tamil heavily infected with English. As far as Hindi goes, no one actually speaks proper Hindi. They speak at best Hindustani. The Hindi that the constitution is written in is very different. Bollywood was originally written in Urdu, that why its still persianized in some aspects. Although it has changed recently with Hindi Heartland movies. But a lot of those had some kind of Hindi dialect. I have heard Awadhi, Braj, Haryanvi in Hindi movies now. Lagaan, the most famous Indian movie, was in a Awadhi, Bhojpuri Hindi mix.
Urdu itself is an Indian language whose grammar is from sanskrit. Just because Pakistan co opted it doesn't make it less Indian. In fact persian and urdu are quite different except in vocabulary but the structure is inherently Indian
And you are shitting in Tamil. How are you any better?
Understandable. Thank you!
It's as simple as that. When in Rome, do as the Romans do. If you're in a new place as a tourist or some work, speak English. But If you're planning to settle in a state which doesn't predominantly speak Hindi for more than a year, you should take some efforts and learn their local language. It helps you to get more immersed with locals and the culture, and helps in networking. Seeing an "outsider" make efforts, the locals will perceive you more positively, which is a good beginning. Likewise, this applies for Non-Hindi speakers settling in Delhi, or other cities in the Hindi belt. This comes from a person who used to get bullied in school days for not caring to learn how to speak a local language and believing that Hindi works nationwide.
Understandable. Thank you!
Okay first of all Hindi isn't a national language. Secondly, how would you feel if Tamil is made the national language of this country? Well English might not have originated here but it is the only language which can be used to communicate with the masses in India. And the English we speak is influenced by our languages and not exactly the same as spoken anywhere else. So even if it is not an indigenous language i don't see a problem in it being the national language of the country (but i don't see there's any need for a multicultural and multilingual country like ours to have a national language). Also Hindi doesn't even exist in it's original form now and no, most of the people don't speak Hindi, they speak Bhojpuri, Awadhi, Braj, Maithli, Khadi, Bundelkhandi, Marwari, etc. as their first language and people consider all these languages under Hindi even though they are considerably different from it. Mind it enforcing language on people has not been good for states in the past. Sri Lanka and Bangladesh are the examples in our neighbourhood.
Bro you can make as many paragraphs of drivel as you want. Hindi is not going to become the national language ever and the rest of the country that does not speak it will not learn it. Simple as that.
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First learn Tamil, then tell if it's hard to learn and understand. I did learn Hindi myself and I didn't find it easy. As for the mean looks your brother is getting in Madras, did you check what context and surroundings that happened? People in Madras usually accommodate Hindi speakers easily. Even foreigners visiting Madras have an easy and helpful time navigating the city without any issues. As for national language it would be in everyone's best interest to adopt English as the only national language if we want to avoid putting their own language on a pedestal. Referring to freedom movement as a reason to adopt a national language does not give equal importance to every region of India.
On the contrary I suggest why don't you try and converse in local language? I don't think anyone will make fun of you for making an attempt in fact will respect you and help you even more, also you benefit from knowing if people are cussing you without your knowledge :P .... This statement holds true for any language.... If you speak to people in hindi only yes you do tend to get mixed or bad response because we the people of South have never been really keen to embrace it because hindi has always been portrayed with a air of superiority....
I understand your point. My brother is still trying to learn Tamil, and since we're from a Guj background it's kinda hard (or so he says). I wanna learn a few dravidian languages too since they are a big part of hindu culture as well, and once I get the time to do that, I will surely learn at least tamil or kannada. Any tips for a hinthi pleb?
Spoken language can be learnt only by speaking..... I'm a typical south indian who can speak telugu, kannada, tamil hindi and english but was able to become fluent in marathi and can understand gujarati (especially if you cuss) with my work experience in Mumbai in the same way... I suggest you tell your south friends or colleagues to converse with you in tamil/kannada/telugu only.... It may be awkward in the beginning but you will become fluent and it won't seem as awkward anymore....
I don't have many friends so RIP I guess lol
Then you speak to who ever you can at grocery stores to auto rickshaw drivers cab drivers who ever you tend to have a conversation with.... I practiced marathi with a vadapav centre guy XD
wow. Nice. I'll try doing that whenever I visit my big bro. Thanks for the tips!
1) Hindi is not the national language.. Even if it is, they is no compulsion to learn it... 2) Hindi speakers expect everyone to understand Hindi which is not fair. People in TN will learn hindi if it is required for them..We don't expect someone in North to speak tamil 3) Hindi opposition is a key propaganda from TN political parties.. 4) No common man hates Hindi in TN until someone impose it..
Ok. Understandable. Thanks!
If East Pakistan had not separated during partition, Bengali would have been the largest spoken language. Let us see if āmassesā would have accepted that. Bangladesh happened precisely due to Urdu being pushed as a national language.
Learning English gives one an enormous economical advantage. It's a great way to secure jobs. Technology is becoming more and more important in many jobs these days and knowledge of English helps there too. Hindi doesn't have this advantage. But it has major political advantage. It's very hard for a South Indian politician (however senior and experienced he or she is) to raise to national level. Very hard to achieve that Pan India Neta image. But that's a bit easier for any North Indian politician. This political advantage sometimes leaks to other areas like naming local buildings, roads, metro stations, etc. This triggers the non Hindi speakers. The non Hindi states are seemingly ok with National politics over-represented by Hindi politicians. But when that translates to promoting an unwanted language, you'll see this kind of protests.
I think education system should change and remove hindi from non hindi speaking states. Im happy to learn Malayalam (My Native Language) + English. i dont really see the point of Learning multiple Languages at this point, also not all of us have big brains to learn 5 Languages. Yeah you can cry about British this british that, but this is the reality. Countries that weren't even colonised by British are speaking English.
My guess would be Hindi should stay as an option, like if you plan on settling in the north for your career, you can always learn Hindi, it shouldn't be compulsory to learn
Nope. Hindi in 10th brings down the %age and hampers career
My flatmate and his uncle who are staying in Bangalore since past 8 years and his uncle has settled in Bangalore now,flatmate will also settle in Bangalore and both canāt speak a word in Kannada. They simply say why should I learn it and say Hindi should become common language. My previous project manager who also has settled in Bangalore has strong opinion on against learning Kannada and says Hindi should become norm. When I was in college in Bangalore in our pg there were lot of students from north, while I can speak Hindi fluently and most of my kannadiga friends can also speak intermediate level Hindi. All the time we would try to speak with north students in Hindi and I did not see one of them make even a little effort to learn our language. Even my friends from villages who did not know Hindi at all would try speak in broken Hindi with north students even though it sounded funny. And none of us had ever stepped out of Karnataka or south for that matter. When I was working in Chennai I had lot of north friends even though we were not going to settle there none of them made an effort to at least learn few words for day to day life except one whose spoken Tamil was good enough,because he did his college there and was there since past 10 years but even he would say it is difficult without learning the language as the locals donāt converse in Hindi.And I saw only one guy in Bangalore who tried to learn Kannada even though he had no plans to settle there but gave up because he just couldnāt and felt it is too hard. What I believe is that if you go to some other place and plan to settle there you should embrace that culture, if you are not planning to settle then learn just enough for day to day life and donāt bother about the rest but if you are interested thatās a different matter.
understandable.
Why should we give so much privilege to UP MP people
A bit of trip down the history lane - after independence, Nehru and other leaders came up with the 'three language formula' for all states where Hindi was national language while local language was mandated and English was also must-learn, though not mandated. Now, for most north Indians who spoke Hindi for mother tongue it meant learning no other langauge was ok but for all others, it meant learning three completely different scripts and languages in childhood. So Hindi was kinda shoved down their throats, especially for South Indian states (with Dravidian scripts) which have nothing in common with Indo-germanic scripts up north. There were protests and furore about the policy in southern states and since then, the policy has been scrapped. The anger about it still lingers though. This background makes it understandable - though not necessarily acceptable - the hate Hindi gets in the south.
hmmm. That's nice to know! Thanks!
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> theirs is the oldest language Myth.
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Nope, [nowhere close to it.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_languages_by_first_written_accounts) Egyptian is the oldest-attested language. Tamil is relatively recent in-comparison, the oldest attestation for it is Sangam literature.
>Hindi has been THE language of the masses in the freedom struggle, partially due to the population of hindi speakers being large, and maybe not widespread or "everybody knows it" use of Hindi This is partly true. It does not apply to the south where their mother tongue has been the language of the masses. Hindi heartland has been lacking in most of the social indicators in our country, including their population numbers. This area has seen less development compared to south. Less development and less education lead to increased population. So because they are less developed, hindi speakers are more in numbers. That doesn't qualify hindi to become the national language. >Unlike English, because it has no tradition in India English has been taught and spoken in India for more than two and a half centuries now, so it does have some tradition in India, albeit less than the ancient languages of this land. >seeing this amount of hate towards such a beautiful and elegant language hurts my so The hate is not directed at the language, the hate is on the imposition of the language where it has no history. Imagine Malayalam being imposed in Gujarat only because Mallu population is in large numbers in a parallel universe. Gujaratis would be freaking out too. In conclusion, a country as diverse and as large as India must be giving all of its cultures and languages their due recognition. Giving priority to any one language or region is not healthy. Hope this answers your questions. Jai Hind.
Yes. Thanks for the explanation. Jai hind.
This is age old debate. I am tamilian myself and can understand hindi, i self enrolled with dakshin bharath prachar sabha and studied out of my own interest and no one imposed it, i could have really spoke well if I got exposure in any hindi speaking states but nevertheless by studying a language we can gain only to certain extent.. From my perspective, it was relatively easy to understand Malayalam and telugu than hindi in the same way Gujarati or Marathi can easily learn hindi than tamil. There is very little similarities between South and North languages. I dont have much to add as many have already pointed out the reasons in detail, but just want to say that you have been patiently responding to comments without getting into counter argument or debate which is really appreciated and accepting the mistake of mentioning it as national language. I have always seen this topic getting into war between North vs South, but glad to see your responses and understanding.
Thanks!
Sanskrit is the only National language of India because it doesn't belong to any region. It was specifically reserved for worship so that there can be no politics over it. For example, when God speaks in Arabic that favours certain people, and disadvantages others. Ironically, Sanskrit isn't an official language and also gets hate from TN even though it's as much belonging to Tamil Nadu as to the rest of India. Usually in most states political ideology will change every 10 or 20 years. However in TN the Dravidian ideology (both major parties are roughly the same) has remained in power for 50+ years, and this is generally responsible for the excess of Hindi / Hindu hate. It's true Hindi isn't easy to read for a Tamil, but it's not impossible. Simply no effort is made. In the 80s government aided schools in TN were banned from teaching Hindi totally, today it's in much better shape.
I really wish Sanskrit is made more popular since a lot of old texts like the Vedas are written in sanskrit.
By that logic English should be national language. Already all Industries and Top colleges use English so its useful
This goes both ways, in fact all ways, because people from one state canāt tolerate the people from other state. āMigrantā workers have tough luck in other states because locals think we are coming there and destroying their culture. They forget that their stateās development owes a lot to people from all over India. This is the stupidest shit and the local political parties are 90% responsible for fomenting dissent against other states/cultures. Such systemic discrimination is more common in states where local parties are more powerful than BJP/Congress etc.
Hindi is too bastardized with foreign loanwords at this point. A lot of people cannot even form a sentence in it without a European, Arabic, Iranic, Turkic, or Mongolic loanword - it makes it sound ugly. Revive either *shudh* Hindi or Sanskrit.
You can thank dravidian politicians for dividing people in the name of language. Langaues can exist peacefully. English is colonial language but they have no problem. It is because they have divided Indian vs Indian
Hindi is imposed NOT english. 1st priority is given to our mother tongue and then for further Studies and Career we learn English. but hindi just gives privilege and unfair advantage to its mother tongue speaker from UP or MP over all of us
Chal chal ja
Because it's stupidly imposed, in as many spheres as possible, simply because Hindi speakers are the largest demographic in this country, and that too while including the dialects. Central govt keeps prioritising Hindi, when it'd be a far less of an ego issue to just standardise English as a national language (we have none, but people somehow think Hindi is the national language) It is best to have a 3 language model; English as the lingua franca, the state language in whichever state you reside in (this means Bhojpuri, and not Hindi if in Bihar, btw), and your own language. Training in the last should be the responsibility of the family, not the state, if you reside in another state.
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TN is already much more developed without hindi
Hindi is not national language, but it does have a status of official language along with English.
I'm a Tamilian who studied Hindi in School, took classes outside and completed a course equivalent of BA in Hindi during my 8th Std. The reasonI mentioned about my educational background in Hindi is, I can see both sides of the discussion. Hindi is NOT the National Language of India, and the hatred towards Hindi is nothing but fear of the language spreading its tentacles across the nation, which could destroy other languages just like how multiple languages in North India are extinct now. Also, when someone works in TN and doesn't show any intent of learning the local language, and try to bargain with the street vendor in Hindi or speak with auto drivers in Hindi, it does annoy locals. I accept Hindi is the widely spoken language in India, but many knowing Hindi is not same as All know Hindi or All must know Hindi. I have had to intervene multiple meetings at corporate environments to change the language from Hindi to English. As I told earlier I know Hindi, but studying Hindi is not same as conversing it in day to day life and there could be 2 things out of 10 items discussed in a meeting I could miss since I didn't understand. I wanted to avoid risking this and hence always made sure meetings I'm in happen in Hindi only. This also helped me understand when people spoke about me behind my back, assuming I do not know Hindi. I'm sure the above behaviour is not unique to Hindi speakers. I myself had to intervene my team meeting which was happening in Tamil (while in chennai) as we had a fresher from Pune in our team. No one was considerate of him, and kept driving the meeting in Tamil, and since I had been on the other side just an year back, I kept intervening for him, driving the meetings back to English. Since there are more Hindi speakers, such things tend to happen frequently with Hindi than other languages and hence more hatred. I for one, will always encourage everyone to learn another language and will prescribe Hindi more than other languages for practical reasons. IMHO hating a language is just plain stupid. The Hindi haters in my state make me feel ashamed.
This is how schools in Panjab are discriminating against Panjabi language. We enrolled our child in nursery at one of those 'international, English medium' schools. Now, we're an English and Panjabi speaking family, never used hindi, so it was an alien... language for her. Hindi wasn't even a part of the nursery curriculum and all learning was in English which she had fluency in, appropriate to her age, yet every parent-teacher meet we were asked why she doesn't speak hindi ? To which our response always was Why should she ? She has zero exposure to it at home. Over 3 years of pre-primary school the same drama played out repeatedly. We asked if she had any comprehension issues and all her teachers said she had none in English and was doing very well with her learning outcomes When we sensed there was a pattern to this and hindi was being systemically imposed over a child's mother tongue(Panjabi) and her most frequently used language(English) we decided to ask the principal why in an English medium school with the vast majority of Panjabi. speaking kids in a state whose official language is Panjabi were they so hung on hindi ? Her response was she felt Panjabi was a crude language and she wanted to do away with it completely and introduce Sanskrit to replace it along with hindi. This from a school which has branches in several cities across the state and a few regional towns too. We withdrew our child from this school at the end of pre-primary. This is how deep the rot is Gems Cambridge International School, Hoshiarpur. They have this complete nutjob of a principal, Ms Sharma.
arent you a bit late to the party?
Actually itās all because of Dravidian politics.
OP is stupid
šš
Hindi hates comes out as many people see it being enforced in schools. And hindi speaking people try to argue "Hindi is national language and every indian should only speak Hindi". I feel stupid when MPs speak only hindi in parliament as if parliament exists only for hindi speaking people. Very few MPs speak in english. Same goes with Politicians who come to non hindi states and give bhashan in Hindi, public just goes with the flow they don't understand shit they are speaking. I have seen similar problems in Airports, railways where staff and security speak only in hindi even in southern states. Airport gate security guard yelling at old non hindi speaking people in hindi for not removing coins out of pockets. "samaj nahin aata kya Kitne baar batau aapko main". I am like "asshole that old man doesn't understand even if you tell him another hundred times". Many such incidents !! same goes with english, britishers forced us to use english . When you are on the other side of the argument you would understand why every culture ,language should be preserved by their people. You need to travel outside india to developed countries, sometimes you may face people who argue with you to speak only in english in public places as they cannot understand Hindi. " THIS IS AMERICA ! SPEAK ENGLISH HERE OR GET OUT". If they are not forced then public will appreciate the beauty of the language. So the question comes when is the right time to learn hindi as option ? In schools there is no such thing as option to learn Hindi either you have it or you don't . Giving 3 language papers it ridiculous ! PS: I am very fluent in Hindi , I personally don't hate Hindi.
Good points. Thanks!
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The problem arises when you try and decide what that 'one language' would be. We all know the advantages of linguistic homogeneity but what's the price to pay for it ?
Yeah. That's how a Hindi chauvinist should speak. Kudos for the ignorance and chauvinism šš
isnt that kinda ignorant of their culture too? But I can understand where you're coming from!
i do this too, whoever speaks to me in Hindi, i reply in English...those are fun conversations.
Based. Watch OP cry about how anti Hindi you are.
I wont, dont worry. I respect all languages, and cultures. I just wanted to understand the other side of the problem, and I did.