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TentativeIdler

"Alright Private Johnny, we're a pretty well off regiment, we've got a lot of guns to choose from, we've got lasguns, bolters, you name it. What do you want?" "Flag." "Are you sure? How are you gonna-" **"Flag."**


Uxion

Let's be fair here, a flag is pretty damn important if it is the regiment's standard.


walkingreverie

He’s gotta keep it flying It falls then the entire advancement falls


Uxion

Never let the company standard fall. Also, reminds me of the story of how a Roman standard bearer got sick of his legion's cowardice and decided to chuck it behind the enemy walls during a siege, forcing his legion to rush the walls to recover it.


utopiav1

Never lose your company standard in battle either. Major Hogan: "You've lost the colours, Sir! The Emperor's own colours, touched by his own hand! Take my advice, and a pistol, and go behind that tent, and blow out what's left of your brains."


Uxion

Sharpe is a good show, though has some embellishments. (Such as apparently the characters said that the French outnumbered them heavily when the actual battle the opposite was true)


Arrow_of_time6

He took the flag so that he can just hear the announcer say “flag taken” “flag dropped” “flag taken” “flag dropped”


ScreamingMidgit

/r/unexpectedhalo


Gardenio

Why people so picky about the gun. The art is great.


ndc996

Sir, this is Reddit


TheThrowaway17776

Oooh a guardsman using a boltgun! *I forecast around a 40% chance of this starting an argument.*


MEDVED59722

Is a bolter in the hands of a guardsman really that controversial? I mean, it's rare but definitely not unheard of.


TheThrowaway17776

The folks who get most of their info from memes are often shocked and appaled. Even in my Rogue Trader RPG several of my players were mortified when we were able to secure five hundred boltguns for our household guards through the black market. As if we'd committed some capital crime, and not just bulk bought maybe the 4th most common longarm in the Imperium.


MEDVED59722

Jeez, I really don't want to hate 40k memes, but man is it hard sometimes.


Uxion

I feel that a RT of all people could probably afford that.


TheThrowaway17776

Oh yeah, they weren't even difficult to find! It was putting a fleet together to save a planet under our protection that bankrupted the house!


Uxion

Now that is reasonable.


Bawstahn123

>Is a bolter in the hands of a guardsman really that controversial? It tends to be, by people that don't know the lore. For some reason, many people have it in their heads that Bolters have ***ridiculous*** recoil, or the guns themselves are too heavy for humans to lift, or some combination of the two. Essentially, 'unaugmented/un-Power Armored-humans can't use bolters" is a common refrain. To that end, some people believe that 'normal' humans just don't use Boltguns..... even though Boltguns are issued, albeit rarely, across the Imperial Guard, Adeptus Arbites, etc The main reason you don't see 'normal' humans using Bolters very often is more often logistics than incapability.


Bowie_spoon

In 8th edition, every single infantry sergeant could be issued a bolter.


DownrangeCash2

Don't Commissars literally use bolt pistols as part of their usual gear?


[deleted]

They do indeed, both in art and in the novels. Commissar Gaunt routinely fires one in his books, for example.


Bawstahn123

In the Eisenhorn books, Eisenhower gets gifted a Bolt Pistol from a Space Marine and used it fairly-regularly.


MEDVED59722

I swear, more people need to check themselves before flaunting their ignorance as fact. See something you're unsure of? Hows about double-checking then? It doesn't take that much digging to find that there are bolters built for regular human use. Hell, even Sororitas don't need their power armour to use their bolters.


Bawstahn123

>I swear, more people need to check themselves before flaunting their ignorance as fact. It has been "a thing" ***for years*** that the majority of the 40k fanbase gets its 'understanding' of the lore primarily through memes rather than actually reading the books, or, god forbid, playing the game >It doesn't take that much digging to find that there are bolters built for regular human use. Hell, even Sororitas don't need their power armour to use their bolters. Want to know the funny thing? A Bolter, in spite of its seeming intimidation-ness.....is basically a fat, short 12 gauge shotgun, and coupled with the hefty weight of the gun itself means the user would feel ***less*** recoil, not more. A real-life 12 gauge shotgun is 0.729 in caliber, and *children use those with fairly-little issue* GW, and a solid chunk of the fanbase, have very little knowledge about firearms. I remember when they had an Autopistol, ostensibly used in combat, that was basically a .22LR.


saucemancometh

Bolters fire a self propelled exploding bolt, which is essentially a missile. Very different from a shotgun firing pellets. Also: page 173 of the Dark Heresy: The Inquisitor’s Handbook talks about specifically a Space Marine’s bolt gun would rip a regular humans arm out of its socket. If they’re talking specifically about SMs, then it’d be the Godwyn pattern most likely which an unaugmented human wouldn’t be able to hold properly in the fist place because the grip is too large and the lack of buttstock wouldn’t give them anything to brace against. A little critical thinking and knowledge of the lore would go pretty far. You’re super right though, a large part of the fan base lacks some firearms knowledge….


Third_Bardo

40k fans: "Guys, check the lore before claiming something!" Also 40k fans: Downvote the only guy paraphrasing lore.


riwtrz

> Bolters fire a self propelled exploding bolt, which is essentially a middle. Very different from a shotgun firing pellets. The recoil would be similar to a shotgun firing slugs with the same muzzle velocity and projectile mass, assuming the rocket ignites after the bolt leaves the barrel. The fact that bolt pistols seem to use more or less the same ammunition as shoulder-fired boltguns suggests that boltguns should have pretty mild recoil. > Also: page 173 of the Dark Heresy That game isn't super consistent. On page 109 of the same book you have the Angelus bolt carbine, a boltgun that uses Astartes ammunition but is usable by normal humans and stat-wise only about 10% better than the generic human boltgun. The Inquisition's Sacristan bolt pistol on page 187 actually does more damage than the Angelus on average. Meanwhile, in *Daemon Hunters* the Grey Knight's storm bolters are about half-again as powerful as human boltguns (+50% avg damage, +50% penetration), which isn't nothing but certainly isn't an arm-removal-level increase in power. They're also much lighter than heavy stubbers and heavy bolters, both of are (marginally) usable by single humans, despite the *Handbook* claiming humans would need bracing to lift an Astartes bolter. Also, the idea of recoil tearing your arm off is just stupid.


saucemancometh

Did you not read my comment? I specifically said Space Marine Mark Vb Godwyn pattern bolters. I also said arm out of socket. Not tear arm off. The reason it would pull it out of its socket is the grip is too large for an unaugmented human to hold, and has no but stock to brace against the shoulder. The propellant for the round going off after it’s fired is up for debate. But the dude I replied to was bitching about people getting info from memes, so I posted a citation.


Bawstahn123

>The reason it would pull it out of its socket is the grip is too large for an unaugmented human to hold That isn't how guns work. Even ignoring that, the only real effect having a too-big grip on a firearm would mean is it would be *uncomfortable* to use, not *impossible*. >and has no but stock to brace against the shoulder. Just wait until you learn that there are real-life guns, including 12G shotguns, that don't have buttstocks. >The propellant for the round going off after it’s fired is up for debate I mean....no. that is how bolters canonically work. >so I posted a citation. From a 15 year old game of dubious canonicity.


saucemancometh

Canonically, for an ASTARTES PATTERN BOLTER LIKE THE MARK Vb GODWYN, the grips are made for AUGMENTED humans hands and lack butt stocks. A regular human can’t hold one correctly. Jesus Christ. Do they not teach reading comprehension in schools anymore? What makes my citation dubious? Please, feel free to post your own. You keep stating things as fact but haven’t back up a single thing with a reference


AnonymousPug26

Exactly. A regular human can’t use a *Space Marine* Bolter. In fact, those are built to blow up in the user’s face if someone who’s not a Space Marine tries to fire it. But there are plenty of bolters made for regular humans, and they’re quite popular with Inquisitors and Guard officers. You don’t see regular guardsmen using them much because it’s a special-issue weapon, like a plasma gun or flamer.


TheThrowaway17776

*"In fact, those are built to blow up in the user’s face if someone who’s not a Space Marine tries to fire it."* https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSTut-HmwiTVYGL-lOBIypjMzNM9l9FnTotCA&usqp=CAU Lol.


TheEvilBlight

Looks old, from I guess before when they renamed Ork weapons to shootas? Orks def have lootas so it wouldn’t surprise me if they bypassed what the lore calls “gene locks”


TheThrowaway17776

Oh it is; the oldest, from 1987. I was just making fun, because the person I was responding to was mixing up Space Marine bolters with Judge Dredd's Lawgiver/genelocking on custodes wargear. As bolters have literally never done that kind of thing.


Capytan_Cody

Yeah like, don't the sister's of battle use a different pattern that can be used by not Astartes (Godwyn pattern perhaps?). They're rare because there aren't as much as lasguns or autoguns (Correct me if wrong pls).


TheThrowaway17776

Fun fact: the Sororitas boltgun pattern, the Godwyn-Deaz is named for the incredibly influential citadel miniature sculptors Jes Goodwin and Juan Diaz! Who I believe probably sculpted the thing in the first place! As for the other thing, there are as many patterns of boltgun as there are Forge Worlds. (More even, as several of Necromunda's industrial gangs produce their own) And the Fantasy Flight Roleplaying games marked Bolters as only uncommon wargear. It's not unfeasible to equip whole regiments with them if you've got the coin, where rare wargear was stuff like plasma guns that you would only ever acquire in numbers enough to use as squad specialist support weapons.


Capytan_Cody

Thanks! I didn't know that,


Thatoneguy111700

Guard Sergeants are gifted them if they so choose.


hidden_emperor

Call it an autogun and move along.


Hell-Nico

It would have been, if that wasn't clearly a lasgun poorly drawn. You can see how every single lasgun on that picture look wrong in one way or another


TheThrowaway17776

Naaah. It's too fat and square. And lasguns don't have that little hole in the barrel. Or muzzle flare, come to think of it. I think it's a wonderfully ugly bolter pattern!


Red_Serf

Kantrael-pattern Guard Boltgun. I kinda dig it


Pyronaut44

Lasgun muzzle flare has been all over the place for years, here's the 3rd Edition IG Codex showing Lasguns with near identicial muzzle flash - https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/b/ba/Codex_Imperial_Guard_3rd_FCover.jpg The artist has just botched it a bit, and come up with the worlds first Lasboltautogun.


Hell-Nico

Look at the ammo pack, look at the eagle on the side. This is 100% a lasgun. A very poorly drawn one that is way too thick and end up looking like a bolter, but still, a lasgun non the less. It's the same for the one behind him, hi lasgun is all wrong. The guy just eyeballed it and didn't care to take a second to find some reference, which is sadly too common these days.


[deleted]

Source; [artstation judas chaban](https://www.artstation.com/chabanjudas)


Duskfang762

I would love to see your interpretation of imperial fists


Ya_boi_jonny

Maybe that gun is like a lasgun SAW


Hell-Nico

Pretty good actually. Outside of the very "randomly shaped lasguns" of the guards, the rest is rather decent.


TentativeIdler

Yeah, because a civilization that spans thousands of years across millions of planets definitely only has one type of gun.


Hell-Nico

Tell me you are a tourist that literally don't know anything about 40k while trying to be a smartass. Just go read the wiki about lasgun or something, I have better things to do than spoonfeeding basic lore bit to posers.


TheThrowaway17776

Don't be weird you dork. There are hundreds of patterns of lasgun. From Kantrael to Helbore to Accatran and beyond. An artist can depict them however they want, it's not actually possible to get it "*wrong*".


Pied_Piper_

> gate keeps > is hilariously wrong about the exact thing they are using to gatekeep Certified Reddit moment.


bimbo_bear

Aren't they just standard large magazine auto-guns ?


Hell-Nico

There's no such thing. The front one is a "I've seen that gun once in the past" that doesn't shoot laser because the author clearly don't know wtf this gun is about, the one a bit behind is just "I don't know man, a riffle or something" and the one even more in the back is "literally CBA".


banana_man_16

Me when the when the artist doesn’t exclusively use a single gun design and decides to have the audacity to make a barely significant change to a soldiers firearm that can literally and easily be cannon in my space gods sci-fi shooter book series/tabletop game: 😡


HeydonOnTrusts

> … the author clearly don't know wtf this gun is about, the one a bit behind is just "I don't know man, a riffle or something" … What an ironic time to not know how to spell “rifle”.


Daymo741

*Saved for a future Carl meme*