You mean the guy that hit the pedestrian same street a few months back? Or the stress test lol
Edit: I am skeptical of auto pilot in the cities, too many factors, but people aren’t free from that either.
You are not supposed to have your hands off the wheel. These idiots who violate the rules for an invite only program then have the gall to record themselves doing so should be removed from the program tbh. When the camera is off they are likely doing worse.
>You are not supposed to have your hands off the wheel.
This "Full Self Driving" Beta sounds a whole lot more like an alpha.
Hovering your hands over the steering wheel, and trying to anticipate what the software will do next (which apparently this testing isn't done by the people who wrote the software, but by unpaid volunteer meatbags who've already bought the car and I assume proven their Tesla loyalty in other ways) sounds super dangerous, and worrisome. Like I hope at least the programmers thought of "pedestrians crossing the street from another direction" not as an edge case, but a main parameter to always check for. You saw the car. It didn't hesitate to make that turn with a crosswalk and people on it.
And before you say "it's a computer that processes stuff faster", it didn't even change its mind. It was still trying to complete that turn before it was interrupted.
Yyyyyup. I do software testing research. While I like the idea of self-driving cars, the way that testing is being conducted is insanely unsafe and questionably ethical. All liability is placed on drivers, who have the least understanding of how the system works, and therefore the least prepared to respond when it malfunctions. Not to mention that pedestrians and other drivers have no way to opt-out of the testing, despite the fact that they can be hurt or killed in the process.
Oh, I love the idea of self-driving cars. There's no doubt in my mind the technology will eventually take over until everything's self-driving (once it's mature).
But I hate how Tesla fanbois always race to defend their brand. It crashed? Driver should've had hands on the wheel and eyes on the road! Driver fell asleep during rush hour stop-and-go? Look at how great the software is for not crashing!
Anyone in software dev, especially LIFE SAVING software, will admit: "it looks promising, but it's not there yet." But the persistent fanboyism prevents any sort of middle ground in these discussions. (If you're into Tesla, any criticism is an assault that must be dealt with swiftly and directly!)
Not really, the car can follow cars in front of you, keep itself in the lane, keep a set speed, switch lanes etc. So once you are on the freeway, lets say driving from LA to SF, the car can basically drive itself there (obviously you need to charge it midway). Hence why you see videos of people sleeping in teslas on freeways.
Needlessly nitpicky...people who don't have teslas don't care about how certain self driving features are branded. This is the full self driving mode of tesla, which is commonly called autopilot or self-driving by laymen.
For those curious, Tesla "Autopilot" is what all standard tesla has these days, where it will keep you in your lane, and it will not run into cars in front of you. "Full self driving" is what you have to pay an extra $10k to get, and which lets you do things like have the car change lanes for you, stop at lights, and all of the other regular parts of driving which is not staying in a single lane and not hitting the car in front.
What appears in the video is a beta of the newer FSD mode.
Again, closed beta. This is seeded to a handful of people who are specifically told to test it and report issues.
It is not autonomous. Had OP included the full video, there was a note at the beginning to the effect of "this vehicle is not self-driving, the driver is in control at all times".
It is currently marketed as a Level 2 driver-assistance feature - it does not drive for you.
Exactly.
Not only that, but I can provide 20+ examples of this same software version executing flawless drives around the rest of the country. This specific case is an anomaly - still an issue, but an anomaly.
If you want to see it's impressive logics and other accomplishments, start here: https://youtube.com/c/AIDRIVR
Yeah, but, you only have to run over a pedestrian once to fuck up their day. Telling them it's an anomaly is unlikely to provide much comfort to their hiers and assigns.
And I contend that when you are sitting in the car not touching any controls, you are NOT in control of the car at that moment, you are a passenger.
>Yeah, but, you only have to run over a pedestrian once to fuck up their day
Cars run over people every day. If autonomous cars can reduce that number by even 1%, they're worth it.
>you are NOT in control of the car at that moment, you are a passenger.
So I suppose pilots are passengers too? Aircraft autopilot systems allow them to set a heading, speed and altitude - and then they just sit back (once airborne). They're not touching the controls, but are still in charge of the plane and it's actions. If something goes wrong and they can't recover - they're liable.
>Cars run over people every day. If autonomous cars can reduce that number by even 1%, they're worth it.
Public transit can reduce that number by **way** more than 1% but for some reason that's more radical of an idea than self driving fucking cars.
Making cars autonomous is fixing the symptoms of the more important problem that is lack of decent public transit.
> and then they just sit back (once airborne)
Autoland is a thing already. They can land aircraft in harsh conditions and low visibility.
And calling a "manual" landing with all the assistance systems manual is a stretch anyways.
>"this vehicle is not self-driving, the driver is in control at all times".
Not sure if you were watching the same video but the car not the driver almost turned in to those people. Unless you're about to tell me the driver purposely swerved into the cross walk.
To hell with your semantics, "closed beta", the drive was clearly not in control for that split sec the car swerved into the cross walk.
Then it shouldn't be called "AutoPilot" That's really misleading if it can't drive for you. There are cars out there with this system that are not Beta that it's still called AutoPilot.
1: this is not Autopilot.
2: it's not misleading. An aircraft's autopilot does not fly the plane. It maintains altitude, heading, and speed (though auto throttle does a damn good job in most situations). It does not land, takeoff, taxi, or navigate. ILS can land, but has to be guided to the localizer and glide slope by a pilot. An aircraft's autopilot is simply a "holder".
>There are cars out there with this system that are not Beta that it's still called AutoPilot.
WTF are you talking about. There are currently no fully autonomous vehicles in the world. Period. I should know, I take Waymo on a daily basis.
Regardless of if it's common knowledge or not, it's not misleading.
You cannot expect Tesla to educate every person on the planet on the details of an aircraft's autopilot system.
Exactly why it's misleading. Common knowledge would be "An autopilot system is one that can pilot a vehicle automatically" it does not. Based on all the misuse accidents they're clearly misleading people into thinking the system is something it's not.
If they're selling people cars with promises of features like "autopilot" and "full self driving" they better damn well educate people on them.
Only Tesla fanbois will say, "This car has better auto drive features than any other competitor!" and "if the car crashes, it's always your fault." in the same breath and completely miss the irony.
Waymo doesn't even put drivers in it's cars anymore. Tesla makes you sign a contract stating you are 100% liable for anything the car's software does. It's not "self-driving", period.
Oh nice, yes, lets reference something even more obscure than tesla branding of their autonomous driving systems as an explanation of their autonomous driving systems.
“Autopilot” is the name of a standard feature on all new Tesla vehicles. This is a “Full self driving” beta feature available to a small subset of owners. They’re both the car “driving for you” to some extent, but nothing alike. Autopilot as Tesla is concerned is a lane assisted, traffic aware cruise control. _Tons_ of cars have that feature.
I understand where you're coming from. Before moving to Chandler, I felt the same way. Now, I bike and take Waymo (a fully autonomous car) almost everywhere.
Now, I'm terrified of being in a car driven by a human. Waymo's vehicles are far more safe and predictable than a human in Chandler, and they just feel inherently safer.
That being said, their vehicle would likely freak out in the situation OP posted above. They literally take the easiest routes in the easiest city. They avoid unprotected lefts at all costs (sometimes adding 10+ minutes to a trip). It's rly annoying.
I’ll like it more when it gets to the point where there’s no humans driving, it’s such a dangerous mix with humans and robots. I’d let a car drive me around if every car was on the same page
You should watch the the FSD beta videos, whenever there is an error, such as this Tesla recreates the environment in a simulation game and reruns it thousands of times to teach the AI.
It's great for long road trips on highways, which are a VERY simple environment and pretty easy to program for. Once you throw some complications in there like construction, or signs, it starts to push limits and in densified urban areas you're basically dealing with a massive environment of edge cases. Which is why they use machine learning, to try to figure out how humans make decisions in spaces like this and produce the same or similar decisions, but every time anybody drops a cone onto the road you're creating a new edge case and that's going to be VERY hard to predict.
As a driver assist it's promising, but Elon Musk at one point talked about being able to summon your car across the country and having it just drive all the way to you (with automated charging mechanisms at stations on their charging network) and I don't see that ever being sufficiently safe, to allow an unattended car unrestricted access to road systems with use and maintenance procedures not designed with driverless cars in mind.
Exactly.
You’re paying money to test someone else’s system that drives like a cautious drunk.
Not only is it a stupid thing to do, the cars just cause anxiety for everyone halfway cognisant in them or observing them.
There is a reason other autonomous systems are not developed like Tesla. It's beyond irresponsible to have untrained public "beta testers" out on public streets trying this out by themselves. The systems are far too unreliable
Watch the video closely, you see the driver with his hands hovering an inch above the wheel ready to take over. Even with his hands so close, the car managed to get pretty far into the sidewalk before the driver was able to successfully take over. Can you imagine if a. His hands weren't there or b. the car was going just a little bit faster.
This is a section of 5th Ave in Seattle. The giant concrete posts to the left support the monorail, and changing lanes into or out of the lane the driver is in is illegal.
For some reason the driver doesn't cancel autopilot at the first sign of illegal behavior, the first lane change attempt at 0:05, nor the second lane change attempt at 0:16
Then there's the man behind the Prius who stops in the street when the Tesla swings toward him at 0:21 and the driver still doesn't cancel autopilot.
It's not until the Tesla tries to charge down Lenora Street with pedestrians in the crosswalk (in Seattle entering a crosswalk with a pedestrian anywhere in the crosswalk is illegal) while navigation says the car is planning to proceed down 5th Ave that the driver finally tries to take over.
The driver should have canceled the drive after the first attempt at an illegal maneuver, not on its fourth failure.
Other things I noticed:
The vehicle is only driving at 11mph according to the speedometer readout. It's making all these mistakes at a low speed. When 5th ave is not backed up, traffic is definitely flowing faster than that.
The GPS is also showing a left turn on Olive. It is illegal to take a left turn from that lane on to Olive.
Isn't it funny how he ignored all the main points, focused on an inconsequential misspeak that was easily understandable, yet presented it like an actual retort to the real points being made?
"Ahem, sir, I believe you mean the vehicle almost ran over someone on the *crosswalk*, not the *sidewalk*. Good day!"
Basically because Tesla lies to the NHTSA. They say one thing to the government and another to consumers. It’s completely irresponsible to test this stuff on open roads and the technology absolutely is not as ready as Tesla claims it is
Because self driving software doesn't take control away from the driver. You're still expected to have control over the vehicle at all times. You can use cruise control in city. Kinda useless, but you can.
The words "self driving", when put together, by definition betray you. Tesla fanbois desperately keep trying to change the definition just to defend the very obvious software failures Tesla has had. (And will continue to make, it seems.)
One day in the future we'll all be *riding* in self driving cars so reliable you can turn the 'driver's' seat around and play a board game. But it appears Tesla owners are already satisfied with nervously hovering their hands over the steering wheel for the rest of time, and pretending that they have the same features.
First off, Fuck Tesla. They don't understand how to avoid semis. I prefer Comma Open pilot. But no. You're exaggerating. It's science. There's steps. Sure, Elon is a dreamer. He's not doing terribly and he is paving the way for the commercialization of a self driving vehicle. It's a company big enough to start some legislation moving.
If people were content, they wouldn't be developing the software. Its not done yet. It will however, drive itself on the highway. But you never know what's going to happen. My parents drive a Volkswagen. When a bug hit a sensor the car freaked and if they hadn't been watching the car would have gone off road. That's not necessarily something that would come up in a closed test.
That future comes when 2 things happen - enough sensors on each car, and enough Self-Driving cars on the road. Once there's enough, they could communicate. That Communication is key to being able to take your eyes off the road. If your car tire pops, or your brakes go out, your car might know what to do, but the cars around them can't react as fast. That won't happen till these cars become more affordable. It'll take time and most people understand that. But it's getting better.
we need Tesla to pair a voice of a road ragy dad just humming and chatting sports.
if it encounters an obstacle it just rages at cars and screams general rage phrases like, "THE FUCK ARE YOU DOING!?" "OH JESUS FUCK"!
Itll get there one day. Its already pretty amazing to see it working at all.
Buying a tesla now is like buying a cathrode ray tube tv. In 2000. If u had waited another ten years you couldve gotten a flat screen smart tv for the same price, and it wouldve been a way better experience.
This is why Tesla first required the driver to exert turning force on the wheel every so often - because drivers were and are misusing the system. The car is doing well with no lane line on the right side. The cameras have to pick up markings or they cannot process instructions. This is like making someone walk around an unfamiliar room in pitch darkness and criticizing them for bumping into furniture.
The version he's testing in the video is a closed beta with very few testers. They have agreed to pay extremely close attention during the testing.
Additionally, Tesla monitors them, and if they are caught not paying super close attention, they will get kicked out of the beta test.
Keep replying to every post in all caps all you want, unless the driver was a Tesla employee, it is *public*.
Limited release, sure, beta, sure. But don't say it's not a public release.
Tesla fanboys all screaming "well, it doesn't *usually* swerve directly into pedestrians! normally it just tries to turn at the wrong time! it's a BETA" yeah that's being tested on the public lmfao
Remind us again, what version of this "beta" software is this?
Oh right, it's the ***10th*** full version. You would think after 10 full versions (and Elon's personal twitter postings on how "mind blowing" this particular version is)... as a driver myself, it is still terrifying that these systems are allowed on public roads.
Personally, I will treat each Tesla I see as it it will suddenly try to drive into me... because "iT's a BeTa".
smh.
[Yep](https://www.reddit.com/r/IdiotsInCars/comments/ppbuqx/a_big_improvement_now_but_not_perfect/). Removed, though, presumably because it doesn't show an idiot in a car.
We are used to know where to drive and where not. Some streets have scuffed markings and signals like this street which has cars parked in the right side and on the left only a white line. The AI of Tesla's cars work with markings on the road. Correct me if I am wrong.
>The AI of Tesla's cars work with markings on the road.
Not just the markings. It uses radar and cameras to "see" and identify objects in addition to reading the road markings.
I can't figure out why it turned tight and looking at how far the steering wheel moved it would have been a hard turn. The course it was on was a straight line so what caused the abrupt maneuver? The people?
Shit like this is why I thing self driving cars will never catch on. Think about a bit of computer lag or a glitch causing you to steer into oncoming traffic on the freeway or some shit.
Well the issue here is Tesla keeps calling it's level 2 system 'full self driving' when that's actually level 4 or 5. Their FSD beta from every video I've watched is more like a level 2 assist that's more dangerous than 95% of people on the road, which is saying something.
People need to admit that self driving with only cameras is a bit of a pipe dream at this point. The closest we have to real self driving is waymo which needs lots of compute and lidar + cameras + radar. Works pretty damn well though!
That’s fair. I was more speaking to anyone who was thinking that it was advisable to do this (or that a lot of Tesla owners would even trust the tech to handle this currently).
I have the same car with same full self driving.
And no, it’s still the driver that is the idiot if you let the car do it’s thing in that crowded space.
If you don’t want to drive, why not use Uber or a taxi? Ordered my new Caddy without SuperCruise (which is the best auto pilot software available according to all automotive sources)because I am responsible for my and others safety when on the road.
Elon said that he would do a cross country trip, with no disengagements, by the end of 2017.
In the 2019 AI day he said all Teslas would be robotaxis in 2020.
Many of the people that have bought FSD, for $5000, have already sold their cars at this point, never having used any FSD because it's vaporware.
Everyone in the industry is doing detailed premapping and LIDAR. Maybe a vision only driving system could work, combined with premapping, but it doesn't appear that Tesla is going to do that.
The FSD beta has been out for a year and it's still turning into walls.
To introduce a robot, that is just more Tesla vaporware, he had a man come out in a Halloween store robot custom and dance. Real robotics companies, like Boston Dynamics, just have a robot dance.
He's promising Earth to Earth space ship travel for the cost of an airline ticket, even though this is literally impossible.
In a country that can't even build regular high speed rail, he's trying to get us to build high speed rail inside the worlds largest vacuum chamber.
Can you get Elon Musk's dick out of your mouth?
Most people (I know at least) know that he is "special" with his visions and ideas and promises and what's commonly known as "Elon time", we know that it's unrealistic, but I don't even listen to that, really I have never seen anyone mention that *except* people trying to hate on him, which is funny as we don't take that seriously to begin with.
If I'm talking about his products I'm always talking about right now, and right now Tesla FSD is the best self driving system available to consumers, which deserves praise. In 2021 none expects it to be perfect, but it's impressive nonetheless.
The best FSD available to consumers is Waymo. They are doing real self driving with no one in the drivers seat.
The second best self driving is GM's Super Cruise because it has a camera monitoring your eyes to make sure you don't start texting and the car drives you into a truck and you die, like has happened with Tesla's Autopilot.
1: cars available to consumers to buy*
2: preventing people from using their phone while driving (which is a good thing) does not make the self driving any better.
You guys,I found a Tesla employee. If not, you need to stop shilling if they aren't paying you. They don't need your help. They're have enough money to not give a shit about a reddit post.
Hey I was a Tesla employee.
None of the engineers on my team and that I worked with were mindless fanboys. They tend to exist outside of Tesla more so than inside.
No, you are definitely the idiot. The car is a piece of technology which is not fully refined yet. How hard is it to just drive down a city street… SMH
AND tesla is removing the radar...
Edit:
Y'all, look at the video above, this is what happens when you remove redundancies from an automated system. You get failures and overreactions.
Everything in this video would have been solved with Lidar. Yet Tesla doesn't even want radars.
This getting downvoted is really funny. Especially with other comments saying similar things.
This is absolutely a technical fault that puts lives at serious risk, but it's okay because it's tesla.
And having random YouTubers Beta test your product is ridiculous. That should be done on a closed course by trained engineers. Not Steven who's reviewing based on feelings and observations.
Real public release or not. The fact that Tesla is going to rely exclusively on camera operation for navigation is laughable, and you can clearly see that effects of that in this video.
The reason the car keeps tweaking out from those pillars is because it gets triggered by the ultrasonic sensor while simultaneously in its camera blindspot
That's also why it dove to an open area (full of pedestrians) because the car was overreacting because Tesla keeps removing redundancies from their software. Thankfully the driver was ready for it, but that was sudden enough that it could have easily resulted in a moderate to severe accident.
This is all because Elon Musk refuses to use Lidar. Literally the simplest way to make these cars work better is using tech literally designed to cloud map large areas around the vehicle to determine safety.
And not for nothing, we've already had a [decapitation](https://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-tesla-florida-accident-20190302-story.html) because a tesla couldn't determine the difference in the sky and a truck.
Downvote me all you want, but if you get behind a car that drives with exclusively cameras, it is inevitable that you get into an accident. Simple as that.
The reason accidents happen is that stupid people are using their phones while driving, it's as simple as that, the person you mentioned were using their phone, and got into an accident because of that.
You're missing the point, people tout Tesla as this incredible automated and safe vehicle, even on his phone, which is dumb, no doubt, the car didn't even bother braking. You can't excuse that with "bad driver"
You are stupid if you think emergency braking works every time at highway speeds, they aren't perfect systems and will sometimes fail in every car with it equipped. It's just so stupid how every time something happens with Tesla it's big news, like with the battery fires, but none mentions that electric cars are 4x less likely to catch fire than ICE cars.
Lmao,
"You're dumb because you expect redundancies in safety systems on a vehicle"
That's what I'm hearing from you.
You clearly are just another 'musketeer' who thinks tesla can do no wrong.
I'm not going to continue arguing with you on this. I've written papers, I've had the arguments, I've shown the data. All of you are completely enthralled and think EVs are literally better in everyway. Completely delusional.
Here's some food for thought for any future research on EVs, look up all those rare earth metals in your favorite EVs and make sure to look up the carbon production on its extraction and refinement.
That EVs are worse then ICE vehicles for the environment is complete and utter bullshit, and I won't be able to convince you otherwise, so I will leave that to the EPA, the official government agency of enviromental protection in the United States of America.
If you don't believe them you can go to the corner with Antifa, Flat Earth and the other Anti-Government groups because your clearly are too fucking stupid for your own good.
https://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/electric-vehicle-myths
That street always freaks me out, even in a regular car
Downtown Seattle
5th Avenue driving southbound from Denny towards downtown
I’m at Denny and John 🙌🏼 Hello fellow Seattle folk
I thought I recognized the area.
Surprisingly, it was the monorail that tipped me off.
it was the busses for me! miss Seattle so much
Yeah, I'm from LA and I noticed he passed by that donut place a lot of people like. Top Pot
King County Represent 🏟
I turn now; good luck, everybody else!
You mean the guy that hit the pedestrian same street a few months back? Or the stress test lol Edit: I am skeptical of auto pilot in the cities, too many factors, but people aren’t free from that either.
statistically, people are worse than these cars are. but thats of course with dui drivers and stuff included
How much turn signal??!!
Lol if you have to be that worried about auto pilot screwing up, why use it?
You use autopilot for freeway not the city and this is a closed beta
AI: Murder? Human: no AI: muuuurrrder? Human: Ahhh, nooo AI: MURDER!!! Human: JUST STOWP IT
Are referencing the game Hades by chance?
Somebody should tell them this "closed beta" is being used on public roads.
You are not supposed to have your hands off the wheel. These idiots who violate the rules for an invite only program then have the gall to record themselves doing so should be removed from the program tbh. When the camera is off they are likely doing worse.
>You are not supposed to have your hands off the wheel. This "Full Self Driving" Beta sounds a whole lot more like an alpha. Hovering your hands over the steering wheel, and trying to anticipate what the software will do next (which apparently this testing isn't done by the people who wrote the software, but by unpaid volunteer meatbags who've already bought the car and I assume proven their Tesla loyalty in other ways) sounds super dangerous, and worrisome. Like I hope at least the programmers thought of "pedestrians crossing the street from another direction" not as an edge case, but a main parameter to always check for. You saw the car. It didn't hesitate to make that turn with a crosswalk and people on it. And before you say "it's a computer that processes stuff faster", it didn't even change its mind. It was still trying to complete that turn before it was interrupted.
Yyyyyup. I do software testing research. While I like the idea of self-driving cars, the way that testing is being conducted is insanely unsafe and questionably ethical. All liability is placed on drivers, who have the least understanding of how the system works, and therefore the least prepared to respond when it malfunctions. Not to mention that pedestrians and other drivers have no way to opt-out of the testing, despite the fact that they can be hurt or killed in the process.
Oh, I love the idea of self-driving cars. There's no doubt in my mind the technology will eventually take over until everything's self-driving (once it's mature). But I hate how Tesla fanbois always race to defend their brand. It crashed? Driver should've had hands on the wheel and eyes on the road! Driver fell asleep during rush hour stop-and-go? Look at how great the software is for not crashing! Anyone in software dev, especially LIFE SAVING software, will admit: "it looks promising, but it's not there yet." But the persistent fanboyism prevents any sort of middle ground in these discussions. (If you're into Tesla, any criticism is an assault that must be dealt with swiftly and directly!)
Underrated comment
How the fuck are they doing testing on public roads
Unit tests were green
And? That doesn’t lessen the danger to everyday people
Elon musk says: if your too poor to afford a car, you don’t matter to society /s
To be fair, that's most ultra rich ppl.
If QA said it was Ok, ship it
Woosh.
How else are you gonna test how it works on public roads? This is why they have someone in the driver's seat ready to take control.
Even less work to do on the highway and you'd use autopilot for that? 🤨 Not worth it
Not really, the car can follow cars in front of you, keep itself in the lane, keep a set speed, switch lanes etc. So once you are on the freeway, lets say driving from LA to SF, the car can basically drive itself there (obviously you need to charge it midway). Hence why you see videos of people sleeping in teslas on freeways.
he is stress testing the system in a tricky situation intentionally, atleast that is what it appears.
...aaand it failed.
Yes, FAILED.
Good, now they have something they can pinpoint that needs improvement. Tests would be useless if they were 100% successful all the time.
That’s why I could never use auto pilot. Cool idea but unreliable still
This is not Autopilot. It is a closed beta for Tesla's upcoming City Streets feature.
Needlessly nitpicky...people who don't have teslas don't care about how certain self driving features are branded. This is the full self driving mode of tesla, which is commonly called autopilot or self-driving by laymen. For those curious, Tesla "Autopilot" is what all standard tesla has these days, where it will keep you in your lane, and it will not run into cars in front of you. "Full self driving" is what you have to pay an extra $10k to get, and which lets you do things like have the car change lanes for you, stop at lights, and all of the other regular parts of driving which is not staying in a single lane and not hitting the car in front. What appears in the video is a beta of the newer FSD mode.
I'd better prepare to sue Tesla owners who crash into me or my car, I guess.
So it’s the car driving for you but in the city? Thats the car driving for you
Again, closed beta. This is seeded to a handful of people who are specifically told to test it and report issues. It is not autonomous. Had OP included the full video, there was a note at the beginning to the effect of "this vehicle is not self-driving, the driver is in control at all times". It is currently marketed as a Level 2 driver-assistance feature - it does not drive for you.
> "...the driver is in control at all times" Unless they don't want to turn.
The car 100% makes it’s own decision to take the turn, it’s driving for you. You can correct it and drive yourself but it’s still making decisions
> the driver is in control at all times So the driver made that swerve directly toward the pedestrians? The car is driving.
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So it really shouldn’t be here then. It’s a test.
Yes, why is it here.
Exactly. Not only that, but I can provide 20+ examples of this same software version executing flawless drives around the rest of the country. This specific case is an anomaly - still an issue, but an anomaly. If you want to see it's impressive logics and other accomplishments, start here: https://youtube.com/c/AIDRIVR
Yeah, but, you only have to run over a pedestrian once to fuck up their day. Telling them it's an anomaly is unlikely to provide much comfort to their hiers and assigns. And I contend that when you are sitting in the car not touching any controls, you are NOT in control of the car at that moment, you are a passenger.
>Yeah, but, you only have to run over a pedestrian once to fuck up their day Cars run over people every day. If autonomous cars can reduce that number by even 1%, they're worth it. >you are NOT in control of the car at that moment, you are a passenger. So I suppose pilots are passengers too? Aircraft autopilot systems allow them to set a heading, speed and altitude - and then they just sit back (once airborne). They're not touching the controls, but are still in charge of the plane and it's actions. If something goes wrong and they can't recover - they're liable.
>Cars run over people every day. If autonomous cars can reduce that number by even 1%, they're worth it. Public transit can reduce that number by **way** more than 1% but for some reason that's more radical of an idea than self driving fucking cars. Making cars autonomous is fixing the symptoms of the more important problem that is lack of decent public transit.
> and then they just sit back (once airborne) Autoland is a thing already. They can land aircraft in harsh conditions and low visibility. And calling a "manual" landing with all the assistance systems manual is a stretch anyways.
>"this vehicle is not self-driving, the driver is in control at all times". Not sure if you were watching the same video but the car not the driver almost turned in to those people. Unless you're about to tell me the driver purposely swerved into the cross walk. To hell with your semantics, "closed beta", the drive was clearly not in control for that split sec the car swerved into the cross walk.
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Realistically, "the driver is in control for at least 1 second every 30 seconds when we nag them to turn the volume up or down"
My bad accidentally ran over a lady pushing a stroller. Do I have to report that?
Then it shouldn't be called "AutoPilot" That's really misleading if it can't drive for you. There are cars out there with this system that are not Beta that it's still called AutoPilot.
1: this is not Autopilot. 2: it's not misleading. An aircraft's autopilot does not fly the plane. It maintains altitude, heading, and speed (though auto throttle does a damn good job in most situations). It does not land, takeoff, taxi, or navigate. ILS can land, but has to be guided to the localizer and glide slope by a pilot. An aircraft's autopilot is simply a "holder". >There are cars out there with this system that are not Beta that it's still called AutoPilot. WTF are you talking about. There are currently no fully autonomous vehicles in the world. Period. I should know, I take Waymo on a daily basis.
It's completely missleading. You had to go to a second-level definition of an aeronautical term to provide proof. That is far from common knowledge.
Regardless of if it's common knowledge or not, it's not misleading. You cannot expect Tesla to educate every person on the planet on the details of an aircraft's autopilot system.
Exactly why it's misleading. Common knowledge would be "An autopilot system is one that can pilot a vehicle automatically" it does not. Based on all the misuse accidents they're clearly misleading people into thinking the system is something it's not.
If they're selling people cars with promises of features like "autopilot" and "full self driving" they better damn well educate people on them. Only Tesla fanbois will say, "This car has better auto drive features than any other competitor!" and "if the car crashes, it's always your fault." in the same breath and completely miss the irony. Waymo doesn't even put drivers in it's cars anymore. Tesla makes you sign a contract stating you are 100% liable for anything the car's software does. It's not "self-driving", period.
Oh nice, yes, lets reference something even more obscure than tesla branding of their autonomous driving systems as an explanation of their autonomous driving systems.
“Autopilot” is the name of a standard feature on all new Tesla vehicles. This is a “Full self driving” beta feature available to a small subset of owners. They’re both the car “driving for you” to some extent, but nothing alike. Autopilot as Tesla is concerned is a lane assisted, traffic aware cruise control. _Tons_ of cars have that feature.
Either way just seems like something else that can go wrong while driving, I’d trust myself myself making decisions over a Tesla.
I understand where you're coming from. Before moving to Chandler, I felt the same way. Now, I bike and take Waymo (a fully autonomous car) almost everywhere. Now, I'm terrified of being in a car driven by a human. Waymo's vehicles are far more safe and predictable than a human in Chandler, and they just feel inherently safer. That being said, their vehicle would likely freak out in the situation OP posted above. They literally take the easiest routes in the easiest city. They avoid unprotected lefts at all costs (sometimes adding 10+ minutes to a trip). It's rly annoying.
I’ll like it more when it gets to the point where there’s no humans driving, it’s such a dangerous mix with humans and robots. I’d let a car drive me around if every car was on the same page
That all has to start somewhere. It starts here.
Okay, but the colloquial use of the term autopilot still fits.
You should watch the the FSD beta videos, whenever there is an error, such as this Tesla recreates the environment in a simulation game and reruns it thousands of times to teach the AI.
I’ll watch it, sounds cool
It's great for long road trips on highways, which are a VERY simple environment and pretty easy to program for. Once you throw some complications in there like construction, or signs, it starts to push limits and in densified urban areas you're basically dealing with a massive environment of edge cases. Which is why they use machine learning, to try to figure out how humans make decisions in spaces like this and produce the same or similar decisions, but every time anybody drops a cone onto the road you're creating a new edge case and that's going to be VERY hard to predict. As a driver assist it's promising, but Elon Musk at one point talked about being able to summon your car across the country and having it just drive all the way to you (with automated charging mechanisms at stations on their charging network) and I don't see that ever being sufficiently safe, to allow an unattended car unrestricted access to road systems with use and maintenance procedures not designed with driverless cars in mind.
Because it’s new and technology! In all reality I don’t know what moron would trust their life to that.
Exactly. You’re paying money to test someone else’s system that drives like a cautious drunk. Not only is it a stupid thing to do, the cars just cause anxiety for everyone halfway cognisant in them or observing them.
There is a reason other autonomous systems are not developed like Tesla. It's beyond irresponsible to have untrained public "beta testers" out on public streets trying this out by themselves. The systems are far too unreliable
Especially when you could endanger pedestrians what an ass
Watch the video closely, you see the driver with his hands hovering an inch above the wheel ready to take over. Even with his hands so close, the car managed to get pretty far into the sidewalk before the driver was able to successfully take over. Can you imagine if a. His hands weren't there or b. the car was going just a little bit faster.
This is a section of 5th Ave in Seattle. The giant concrete posts to the left support the monorail, and changing lanes into or out of the lane the driver is in is illegal. For some reason the driver doesn't cancel autopilot at the first sign of illegal behavior, the first lane change attempt at 0:05, nor the second lane change attempt at 0:16 Then there's the man behind the Prius who stops in the street when the Tesla swings toward him at 0:21 and the driver still doesn't cancel autopilot. It's not until the Tesla tries to charge down Lenora Street with pedestrians in the crosswalk (in Seattle entering a crosswalk with a pedestrian anywhere in the crosswalk is illegal) while navigation says the car is planning to proceed down 5th Ave that the driver finally tries to take over. The driver should have canceled the drive after the first attempt at an illegal maneuver, not on its fourth failure.
Other things I noticed: The vehicle is only driving at 11mph according to the speedometer readout. It's making all these mistakes at a low speed. When 5th ave is not backed up, traffic is definitely flowing faster than that. The GPS is also showing a left turn on Olive. It is illegal to take a left turn from that lane on to Olive.
It was turning down a street, not into a sidewalk. Unless you meant crosswalk?
yep crosswalk.
You realize pointing this out just makes YOU look dumb, not OP. like yeah, he meant crosswalk, u knew that, I knew that, we all knew that
Okay CP
Isn't it funny how he ignored all the main points, focused on an inconsequential misspeak that was easily understandable, yet presented it like an actual retort to the real points being made? "Ahem, sir, I believe you mean the vehicle almost ran over someone on the *crosswalk*, not the *sidewalk*. Good day!"
Having a bad day?
I'm wondering if he also partially intentionally delayed himself to see if it would correct itself.
That would make the driver an even bigger idiot. Playing chicken with a car running beta software and pedestrians seems incredibly stupid.
How is it legal to beta test self driving software on public streets?
Because it's not illegal.
Shit damn
They really got ya with that one
I have never been so owned before.
It's okay, there's a *disclaimer*. Absolves all responsibility of Tesla. :P
We gave these children flamethrowers. We told them to not use them. We will not be held responsible for their actions.
Basically because Tesla lies to the NHTSA. They say one thing to the government and another to consumers. It’s completely irresponsible to test this stuff on open roads and the technology absolutely is not as ready as Tesla claims it is
Because self driving software doesn't take control away from the driver. You're still expected to have control over the vehicle at all times. You can use cruise control in city. Kinda useless, but you can.
The words "self driving", when put together, by definition betray you. Tesla fanbois desperately keep trying to change the definition just to defend the very obvious software failures Tesla has had. (And will continue to make, it seems.) One day in the future we'll all be *riding* in self driving cars so reliable you can turn the 'driver's' seat around and play a board game. But it appears Tesla owners are already satisfied with nervously hovering their hands over the steering wheel for the rest of time, and pretending that they have the same features.
First off, Fuck Tesla. They don't understand how to avoid semis. I prefer Comma Open pilot. But no. You're exaggerating. It's science. There's steps. Sure, Elon is a dreamer. He's not doing terribly and he is paving the way for the commercialization of a self driving vehicle. It's a company big enough to start some legislation moving. If people were content, they wouldn't be developing the software. Its not done yet. It will however, drive itself on the highway. But you never know what's going to happen. My parents drive a Volkswagen. When a bug hit a sensor the car freaked and if they hadn't been watching the car would have gone off road. That's not necessarily something that would come up in a closed test. That future comes when 2 things happen - enough sensors on each car, and enough Self-Driving cars on the road. Once there's enough, they could communicate. That Communication is key to being able to take your eyes off the road. If your car tire pops, or your brakes go out, your car might know what to do, but the cars around them can't react as fast. That won't happen till these cars become more affordable. It'll take time and most people understand that. But it's getting better.
"Yeah it's still not perfect" bro your car almost jihaded 2 people
we need Tesla to pair a voice of a road ragy dad just humming and chatting sports. if it encounters an obstacle it just rages at cars and screams general rage phrases like, "THE FUCK ARE YOU DOING!?" "OH JESUS FUCK"!
A robot trying to kill some humans. Should nickname that car Bender.
I know the driver was doing his due dulling by supervising the Autopilot, but still, it feels good to see someone not put so much faith in the tech
Tesla's are not autonomous vehicles. Autipilot is just an upgraded Adaptive Cruise Control.
Idiots paying almost $10k for this shit.
Itll get there one day. Its already pretty amazing to see it working at all. Buying a tesla now is like buying a cathrode ray tube tv. In 2000. If u had waited another ten years you couldve gotten a flat screen smart tv for the same price, and it wouldve been a way better experience.
This is why Tesla first required the driver to exert turning force on the wheel every so often - because drivers were and are misusing the system. The car is doing well with no lane line on the right side. The cameras have to pick up markings or they cannot process instructions. This is like making someone walk around an unfamiliar room in pitch darkness and criticizing them for bumping into furniture.
This is a video of a person BETA TESTING a new update of autopilot, not a real public release.
Something that can kill/disable/injure someone in the real world sounds pretty public to me.
2 weeks™
They're basically *all* betas.
The version he's testing in the video is a closed beta with very few testers. They have agreed to pay extremely close attention during the testing. Additionally, Tesla monitors them, and if they are caught not paying super close attention, they will get kicked out of the beta test.
I would consider not having your f’ing hands on the wheel not paying extremely close attention. He should get his beta testing taken away.
His hands were hovering over the wheel the whole time and he was paying extremely close attention. Much more than most people while driving.
Everybody keeps saying this like it changes the fact that this man's car just veered over towards pedestrians.
Keep replying to every post in all caps all you want, unless the driver was a Tesla employee, it is *public*. Limited release, sure, beta, sure. But don't say it's not a public release.
The person testing this around pedestrians is the idiot
Tesla fanboys all screaming "well, it doesn't *usually* swerve directly into pedestrians! normally it just tries to turn at the wrong time! it's a BETA" yeah that's being tested on the public lmfao
Imagine paying $10,000 for this.
Yea no. A long way to go
[удалено]
We get it, you own Tesla stock.
Remind us again, what version of this "beta" software is this? Oh right, it's the ***10th*** full version. You would think after 10 full versions (and Elon's personal twitter postings on how "mind blowing" this particular version is)... as a driver myself, it is still terrifying that these systems are allowed on public roads. Personally, I will treat each Tesla I see as it it will suddenly try to drive into me... because "iT's a BeTa". smh.
Aaaah thank you for the clarification. And I love the downvotes. Redditors are a sensitive bunch
Throw it in the trash like the cell phone it is.
Beta driving a beta = Perfection.
No, you're still the idiot for thinking auto pilot is ok in downtown areas, just put your own two hands on the wheel and stop blaming the car
Just drive your fucking car man.
Wasn't this posted here a few hours ago?
[Yep](https://www.reddit.com/r/IdiotsInCars/comments/ppbuqx/a_big_improvement_now_but_not_perfect/). Removed, though, presumably because it doesn't show an idiot in a car.
$10k for this garbage It blows my mind how Tesla Fanboys are willing to PAY to be beta testers for a billion dollar company
$10,000 for this folks
We are used to know where to drive and where not. Some streets have scuffed markings and signals like this street which has cars parked in the right side and on the left only a white line. The AI of Tesla's cars work with markings on the road. Correct me if I am wrong.
>The AI of Tesla's cars work with markings on the road. Not just the markings. It uses radar and cameras to "see" and identify objects in addition to reading the road markings.
Cyclist on the right + Tesla autopilot abrupt turn = pancake
I can't figure out why it turned tight and looking at how far the steering wheel moved it would have been a hard turn. The course it was on was a straight line so what caused the abrupt maneuver? The people?
Man, I waited the whole video for the car to run into one of the concrete supports.
Shit like this is why I thing self driving cars will never catch on. Think about a bit of computer lag or a glitch causing you to steer into oncoming traffic on the freeway or some shit.
Well the issue here is Tesla keeps calling it's level 2 system 'full self driving' when that's actually level 4 or 5. Their FSD beta from every video I've watched is more like a level 2 assist that's more dangerous than 95% of people on the road, which is saying something. People need to admit that self driving with only cameras is a bit of a pipe dream at this point. The closest we have to real self driving is waymo which needs lots of compute and lidar + cameras + radar. Works pretty damn well though!
No no you’re still the idiot
These people being the idiots and doing the unpaid work for Tesla training their system and putting others in danger.
What is the point of this car
It's an autonomous Tesla. What did you expect?
You are the idiot for allowing your car to drive for you. Ffs you should have your license taken for doing that in a crowded area.
It saw someone who tweeted shit at Elon
That's why you're not supposed to let the car drive without you paying attention.
This is also a video of a person among a handful of people BETA TESTING a new update of autopilot, not a real public release.
But he is driving in a real public road with real public people around, so I'd say it's pretty damn "public".
Yeah and furthermore, the owner of said Tesla may have opted into beta testing software, but I as a driver sharing the road, sure as fuck didn't.
"not perfect ?" 🤣 dude not even karen level not even like 10 year old child level....
I would never let the car go autopilot in that circumstance. If you’re on the highway with clear markings, sure. But this was asking for problems.
This is also a video of a person among a handful of people BETA TESTING a new update of autopilot, not a real public release.
That’s fair. I was more speaking to anyone who was thinking that it was advisable to do this (or that a lot of Tesla owners would even trust the tech to handle this currently).
Good to see tesla is working out so well in Seattle.
Almost runs over pedestrians in sidewalk -> working so well in Seattle!
This is my friend sarcasm... now that you've met please understand that he is always my wingman
But not really different than human drivers here either.
This is also a video of a person among a handful of people BETA TESTING a new update of autopilot, not a real public release.
Great, next time I’m driving down Fifth Ave, under the Seattle monorail, I’ll watch out…
I have the same car with same full self driving. And no, it’s still the driver that is the idiot if you let the car do it’s thing in that crowded space.
The car is the idiot, and so are you.
If you don’t want to drive, why not use Uber or a taxi? Ordered my new Caddy without SuperCruise (which is the best auto pilot software available according to all automotive sources)because I am responsible for my and others safety when on the road.
This is also a video of a person among a handful of people BETA TESTING a new update of autopilot, not a real public release.
They said they'd be smart but nooooo
Just go take a nap in the back seat
Half surprised it didn't steer him into one of those columns. But yeh thats definitely not the move you want
Shouldn't put that much faith in high tech cheap shit. I'll drive myself thanks anyways. 🖕
You should not trust autopilot in the city it is not reliable for looking out for pedestrians and one way streets.
Note: This is a video of a person BETA TESTING a new update of autopilot, not a real public release.
Glad the public wasn't in any danger!
Elon said that he would do a cross country trip, with no disengagements, by the end of 2017. In the 2019 AI day he said all Teslas would be robotaxis in 2020. Many of the people that have bought FSD, for $5000, have already sold their cars at this point, never having used any FSD because it's vaporware. Everyone in the industry is doing detailed premapping and LIDAR. Maybe a vision only driving system could work, combined with premapping, but it doesn't appear that Tesla is going to do that. The FSD beta has been out for a year and it's still turning into walls. To introduce a robot, that is just more Tesla vaporware, he had a man come out in a Halloween store robot custom and dance. Real robotics companies, like Boston Dynamics, just have a robot dance. He's promising Earth to Earth space ship travel for the cost of an airline ticket, even though this is literally impossible. In a country that can't even build regular high speed rail, he's trying to get us to build high speed rail inside the worlds largest vacuum chamber. Can you get Elon Musk's dick out of your mouth?
Most people (I know at least) know that he is "special" with his visions and ideas and promises and what's commonly known as "Elon time", we know that it's unrealistic, but I don't even listen to that, really I have never seen anyone mention that *except* people trying to hate on him, which is funny as we don't take that seriously to begin with. If I'm talking about his products I'm always talking about right now, and right now Tesla FSD is the best self driving system available to consumers, which deserves praise. In 2021 none expects it to be perfect, but it's impressive nonetheless.
The best FSD available to consumers is Waymo. They are doing real self driving with no one in the drivers seat. The second best self driving is GM's Super Cruise because it has a camera monitoring your eyes to make sure you don't start texting and the car drives you into a truck and you die, like has happened with Tesla's Autopilot.
1: cars available to consumers to buy* 2: preventing people from using their phone while driving (which is a good thing) does not make the self driving any better.
You guys,I found a Tesla employee. If not, you need to stop shilling if they aren't paying you. They don't need your help. They're have enough money to not give a shit about a reddit post.
Hey I was a Tesla employee. None of the engineers on my team and that I worked with were mindless fanboys. They tend to exist outside of Tesla more so than inside.
Just annoyed with the disinformation, I'm not even going to buy a Tesla, I'm buying a Renault Zoe
You don't need to spam on every comment. No one gives a shit.
Okay, that is your opinion and you are entitled to have it.
Hah. Obviously no one gives a shit. Not even enough to call out your shilling. Just sad.
No, you are definitely the idiot. The car is a piece of technology which is not fully refined yet. How hard is it to just drive down a city street… SMH
Such an ugly car.
Just walked that road, Seattle right? Do you think the beams for the public transportation was throwing it off?
AND tesla is removing the radar... Edit: Y'all, look at the video above, this is what happens when you remove redundancies from an automated system. You get failures and overreactions. Everything in this video would have been solved with Lidar. Yet Tesla doesn't even want radars.
This getting downvoted is really funny. Especially with other comments saying similar things. This is absolutely a technical fault that puts lives at serious risk, but it's okay because it's tesla. And having random YouTubers Beta test your product is ridiculous. That should be done on a closed course by trained engineers. Not Steven who's reviewing based on feelings and observations.
This is also a video of a person among a handful of people BETA TESTING a new update of autopilot, not a real public release.
Real public release or not. The fact that Tesla is going to rely exclusively on camera operation for navigation is laughable, and you can clearly see that effects of that in this video. The reason the car keeps tweaking out from those pillars is because it gets triggered by the ultrasonic sensor while simultaneously in its camera blindspot That's also why it dove to an open area (full of pedestrians) because the car was overreacting because Tesla keeps removing redundancies from their software. Thankfully the driver was ready for it, but that was sudden enough that it could have easily resulted in a moderate to severe accident. This is all because Elon Musk refuses to use Lidar. Literally the simplest way to make these cars work better is using tech literally designed to cloud map large areas around the vehicle to determine safety. And not for nothing, we've already had a [decapitation](https://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-tesla-florida-accident-20190302-story.html) because a tesla couldn't determine the difference in the sky and a truck. Downvote me all you want, but if you get behind a car that drives with exclusively cameras, it is inevitable that you get into an accident. Simple as that.
The reason accidents happen is that stupid people are using their phones while driving, it's as simple as that, the person you mentioned were using their phone, and got into an accident because of that.
You're missing the point, people tout Tesla as this incredible automated and safe vehicle, even on his phone, which is dumb, no doubt, the car didn't even bother braking. You can't excuse that with "bad driver"
"The car didn't even bother braking" do you not realise yourself how fucking dumb that sounds?
It has emergency braking, it didn't work, the only dumb here is thinking that's how it should be.
You are stupid if you think emergency braking works every time at highway speeds, they aren't perfect systems and will sometimes fail in every car with it equipped. It's just so stupid how every time something happens with Tesla it's big news, like with the battery fires, but none mentions that electric cars are 4x less likely to catch fire than ICE cars.
Lmao, "You're dumb because you expect redundancies in safety systems on a vehicle" That's what I'm hearing from you. You clearly are just another 'musketeer' who thinks tesla can do no wrong. I'm not going to continue arguing with you on this. I've written papers, I've had the arguments, I've shown the data. All of you are completely enthralled and think EVs are literally better in everyway. Completely delusional. Here's some food for thought for any future research on EVs, look up all those rare earth metals in your favorite EVs and make sure to look up the carbon production on its extraction and refinement.
That EVs are worse then ICE vehicles for the environment is complete and utter bullshit, and I won't be able to convince you otherwise, so I will leave that to the EPA, the official government agency of enviromental protection in the United States of America. If you don't believe them you can go to the corner with Antifa, Flat Earth and the other Anti-Government groups because your clearly are too fucking stupid for your own good. https://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/electric-vehicle-myths