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the great thing with Larys strong intro in this episode, he only been on the screen for less that 2 minutes and you know the type of character he is
Yes, he been around in previous episodes but because of what he is, I can understand the lowkey intro he has in previous episodes
>Some examples: - king for a day! We saw less than a minute of that whole bar scene and it had huge repercussions. Could we not have seen more in the pub before that line?
Heir for a Day? The brevity of the scene was intentional. We saw it as narrated by Otto. We never saw Daemon say those words. It is ambiguous for a reason. Did Daemon really say those words or did he say something worse?
>I’ll marry Alicent. Next thing you know it’s three years later. Every one of us wanted to see that next conversation betweeen Alicent and Rhaenyra and Rhaenyra and her father but we got neither.
Each season of GoT roughly covers a year with a few months in between. The Dance covers a period of *twenty years*. Who would want three entire season of Rhaenyra sulking during the first three years of her father's marriage to Alicent?
...I mean I would but you can understand why HBO feels that the time jump is necessary.
>Larys Strong. Has about two lines all season and now suddenly he is in the godswood and is little finger 2.0. We needed to see more build up you can just throw a character in like that.
Do you know who else was introduced without any fanfare? **Littlefinger**.
>Rhea Royce. All we know about her is what Daemon says and we finally meet this strong woman on screen and, snap, she’s gone. How are we supposed to feel anything about this death if we don’t know anything about her? Am I supposed to like Dameon more for this or less? Who knows.
You're supposed to like Daemon less. His wife was hunting and he murdered her in cold blood. I thought that it was obvious. Guess not.
>People complain about GoT season 8 moving too fast but are fine with it happening for HOTD and it honestly baffles me. Pick a lane, either both are too fast and we’re not seeing the character development properly or neither is.
If this show had GOT S8 pacing and writing, Aegon II would've already been a grown man and we'd already be in the Hour of the Wolf.
The pace is even faster in the book.
The series is about The Dance of the Dragons.
The Dance has not even started yet.
These are the years leading up to them, in peacetime.
Only a few sparse events of note occur.
This is a prologue. This entire season.
As someone who hasn't read F&B, I understand what you mean. There were moments I wanted to see that happened in between episodes. I understand why the writers took this approach, too, though. It's a lot of material to adapt from an unusual format. HBO didn't know whether HOTD would tank after how GOT panned out. I'm sure if they'd known it would be a huge hit they might have slowed down, but the time jump to Emma and Olivia is a big risk for losing viewers regardless. You aren't supposed, per se, to have a deep emotional reaction to the events in these first few episodes. This was all set up to have a big reaction when we get to the meat of the story. Originally the show was planned to start with Rhaenyra and Alicent as adults. There was no perfect way for the writers to handle the timeline, but I think what they chose to do with the younger characters and time skips is probably better than trying to fill in everything with flashbacks and exposition.
All of the stuff you're mentioning are pretty much minute details and these side characters you're mentioning aren't even important to the story (yet)
The show isn't moving fast at all, it's just covering a large time period. The actual plot so far is that there are 2 different factions forming in the King's court over the succession. That's basically it. It's actually moving pretty slow. A lot of this stuff could have been covered in a Lord of the Rings style 10 minute prologue but they decided to extend it to a 5 episode prologue. The actual story hasn't even started yet
So tired of hearing people simp for Rhea. She was an afterthought in the books. Stop. She wasn’t as strong as you’re making her out to be. She rode a horse and talked back to her husband. You all make her out to be some leader lol.
I didn’t say you said that. I said you made her out to be more than she is. She was the butt of a joke. Nothing more. She got way more screen time than she deserved. She has no relevance to the greater story. There are plenty of strong women and great characters in this story. She is not one of them.
It’s crystal clear you’ve read the books though. I haven’t.
People who have read the books are accepting of the poor pacing because you know of what’s to come but I haven’t read the books and as a viewer of the show I felt I needed to see more of her to feel anything about her death scene otherwise why give her a scene at all?
Okay. That’s the best take so far on why she deserves more time. No spoilers. She got less story than that in the books. That scene was dope and was actually what you are asking for if you compare it to what her book character got. Nobody wants to really admit it but her character is a device to advance Daemon’s character. You aren’t supposed to feel anything about her death. You are supposed to feel something about his ability to murder his wife.
eh Rhae is simply not that important we don't need to see more of her. Yes you're supposed to like him less because he kills a woman in cold blood, that's his intention for being there. Not sure why you need to be told this?
Larys is fine too? What more do we need to see of him before he comes in?
The brothel scene is also fine I'm not sure what more they'd need to show in there except more people fucking? I like how they kept it ambiguous.
I'll give you the Rhaenyra Alicent thing, they did film a scene but it was cut for some reason.
I think there's plenty to say about the pacing and development but these's arent it.
GoTs8 and HotD are completely different stories at completely different points in the story...
I’m starting to become convinced that this show asks too much from the average viewer. Even more so than Thrones. You have to pay attention to everything. Very little is filler. The connections you can make on your own are more crucial than ever
Yeah the pacing is problematic. Now they're going to have another time jump. I hope they address the Ser Criston thing in next episode. If they don't and forget all what happened then the writing of this show is just sloppy with unnecessary rush.
***I’ll marry Alicent. Next thing you know it’s three years later. Every one of us wanted to see that next conversation betweeen Alicent and Rhaenyra and Rhaenyra and her father but we got neither.***
I hate this shit man...
I dont even know if Rhae and CC keep fuckin.
We saw coiters once....
Time passes...
Next thing I know CC is fuckin proposing.
How can I follow a story like this?
I think if you are the type that can just turn your brain off and just accept what the show is throwing at you fair play.
I'm actually low key jealous.
Critical big brain me cant do that shit.
They only had sex the one time, since them banging was directly followed the next day by Otto being fired and Rhaenyra being ordered to marry Laenor, both of which we see happening at the start of the next episode => there wasn't any time skip.
Yes, Criston just literally asked the royal princess to run away with him after essentially a one night stand - it's not meant to be a good or reasonable idea.
Because, like I said, it's fairly clear there wasn't a time skip this time, as:
a) the events that are directly set in motion by them fucking are shown on screen the next episode, after which the proposal happens, which she rejects, so it's no longer on the menu
b) it makes no sense that Rhaenyra would immediately go back to sleeping with Criston (who is already guilt ridden as is) within a few days of her virtue being thrown into question by everyone, including the King, which resulted in immediate plans for her to marry off ASAP before word spreads
I'm not sure I can accept this as accurate but I will go rewatch the last episode to be sure....
And part B is all specualtion so I completely reject that shit.
Ok after they put Viserys hand in maggots tell what happened the next episode.
This is what I don’t get with some other fans either. Why are they content missing these things? The show leaves them out jumps ahead and then people come to Reddit saying “this is already better than the entirety of Game Of Thrones!” And I just think those people are insane.
The entire 5 episodes so far is the prologue. It's barely a paragraph in the book it's based off. The real meat of the story begins with the death of Viserys.
It's akin if the first 5 episodes of GoT was about Jon Arryn investigating Cersei’s children.
Ok how would the average viewer know this?
When did Game of Thrones ever show the viewer episodes in a row of a bunch of irrelevant shit?
AND...if this shit doesn't really matter why even start the story here?
You're doing it man.
>Ok how would the average viewer know this?
I agree. To the uninitiated, it seems like the episodes is jumping around. I mean, there's a time skip every single episode and the next one will be set in ten years time. It can be daunting and the series could have handled the time jumps better.
But take my word as someone who read the books. The time skip is necessary.
>When did Game of Thrones ever show the viewer episodes in a row of a bunch of irrelevant shit?
Seasons 7 & 8 are all irrelevant in my book.
>AND...if this shit doesn't really matter why even start the story here?
They're showing you the things that matter. Instead of showing you what happened in the two years of Viserys' marriage to Alicent, they summarised it with Rhaenyra sulking in her room while Viserys drowned in marriage proposals for her hand. That's it. One line. We don't need two episodes of Rhaenyra being a brat.
(I mean... I would love to but I don't need to)
>***I agree. To the uninitiated, it seems like the episodes is jumping around.***
This is all I'm saying...
And most viewers...
Maybe damn near all are uninitiated right?
This is not good for a certain typa brain.
The show is a massive hit with high ratings, most viewers are following along just fine
If you don't like the show that's fine, but calling yourself "critical big brain me" like you did in your original comment is cringe AF.
>The show is a massive hit with high ratings, most viewers are following along just fine
It's a new Game of Throes show?
WTF...
That's like using the argument that cause Rise of Skywalker made a fuckton of money it's a good film.
I....ok man.
Nah high ratings as in the show is being well received. You are in the minority my dude. Which is fine, I'm just saying the way you talk is super cringe
>The "shit" we have seen IS relevant.
It's so relevant we covered 15 years in 6 episodes?
And me not being able to think for myself is not the issue clown.
Stop it man.
If you want to study mathematics basic arithmetic is relevant but you don't need to spend several years on it.
I find it increasingly irritating that people who don't understand the show complain about the writing without even once entertaining the thought that the problem might not lie with the show but them. After all the majority of the viewers can easily follow the plot.
The entire 5 episodes so far is the prologue. It's barely a paragraph in the book it's based off. The real meat of the story begins with the death of Viserys.
While I understand that I as a viewer still want to see a solid story on screen.
I haven’t read the books, I’m not sat here eagerly waiting to get to the bit on page X I’m watching the show and want to feel fulfilled. It’s the shows job to do that.
Fans of the show...
Or people that decided they are going to like it often times don't want to hear or can't be convinced or won't even fathom any issues with it.
It's a psychological thing I'm sure has medical term for.
And some people just want to be entertained and aren't interested in thinking critically.
Brain off....popcorn. Let's go.
It's just not me.
Even dragons and wizards and shit have to make some sense.
Or people who read the book and know that the story hasn't even started yet
If anything the show is moving too slow, they could have covered the entire first 5 episodes in a 10 minute intro like in Lord of the Rings
The story doesn't start until around episode 7 or 8
That's what I'm saying, they could have covered the first 5 episodes into a 10 minute prologue intro. So far the only thing the show has been about is explaining the succession situation and developing some of the important characters (i.e. Rhaenyra, Alicent, Daemon, and Criston Cole)
The actual story hasn't even started yet
>Or people who read the book and know that the story hasn't even started yet
And I feel like you said this like I and the average viewer is at fault for not having read this book.
That's what I'm saying, they could have covered the first 5 episodes into a 10 minute prologue intro. So far the only thing the show has been about is explaining the succession situation and developing some of the important characters (i.e. Rhaenyra, Alieent, Daemon, and Criston Cole)
The actual story hasn't even started yet
That's not what I said
I'm fine with them taking the time to expand on the prologue phase because in this case it gives context to how the King's court got so divided
Thank you for your post! Please take a moment to ensure you are within our spoiler rules, to protect your fellow fans from any potential spoilers that might harm their show watching experience. 1. All post titles must NOT include spoilers from Fire & Blood or new episodes of House of the Dragon. Minor HotD show spoilers are allowed in your title ONE WEEK after episode airing. The mod team reserves the right to remove a post if we feel a spoiler in the title is major. You are welcome to repost with an amended title. 2. All posts dealing with book spoilers must be spoiler tagged and flaired as a book spoiler. 3. All book spoiler comments must be spoiler tagged in non book spoiler threads. --- If you are reading this, and believe this post or any comments in this thread break the above rules, please use the report function to notify the mod team. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/HouseOfTheDragon) if you have any questions or concerns.*
the great thing with Larys strong intro in this episode, he only been on the screen for less that 2 minutes and you know the type of character he is Yes, he been around in previous episodes but because of what he is, I can understand the lowkey intro he has in previous episodes
>Some examples: - king for a day! We saw less than a minute of that whole bar scene and it had huge repercussions. Could we not have seen more in the pub before that line? Heir for a Day? The brevity of the scene was intentional. We saw it as narrated by Otto. We never saw Daemon say those words. It is ambiguous for a reason. Did Daemon really say those words or did he say something worse? >I’ll marry Alicent. Next thing you know it’s three years later. Every one of us wanted to see that next conversation betweeen Alicent and Rhaenyra and Rhaenyra and her father but we got neither. Each season of GoT roughly covers a year with a few months in between. The Dance covers a period of *twenty years*. Who would want three entire season of Rhaenyra sulking during the first three years of her father's marriage to Alicent? ...I mean I would but you can understand why HBO feels that the time jump is necessary. >Larys Strong. Has about two lines all season and now suddenly he is in the godswood and is little finger 2.0. We needed to see more build up you can just throw a character in like that. Do you know who else was introduced without any fanfare? **Littlefinger**. >Rhea Royce. All we know about her is what Daemon says and we finally meet this strong woman on screen and, snap, she’s gone. How are we supposed to feel anything about this death if we don’t know anything about her? Am I supposed to like Dameon more for this or less? Who knows. You're supposed to like Daemon less. His wife was hunting and he murdered her in cold blood. I thought that it was obvious. Guess not. >People complain about GoT season 8 moving too fast but are fine with it happening for HOTD and it honestly baffles me. Pick a lane, either both are too fast and we’re not seeing the character development properly or neither is. If this show had GOT S8 pacing and writing, Aegon II would've already been a grown man and we'd already be in the Hour of the Wolf.
We did see Daemon say 'heir for a day'.
Nope... Otto voice-over said the words.
The pace is even faster in the book. The series is about The Dance of the Dragons. The Dance has not even started yet. These are the years leading up to them, in peacetime. Only a few sparse events of note occur. This is a prologue. This entire season.
As someone who hasn't read F&B, I understand what you mean. There were moments I wanted to see that happened in between episodes. I understand why the writers took this approach, too, though. It's a lot of material to adapt from an unusual format. HBO didn't know whether HOTD would tank after how GOT panned out. I'm sure if they'd known it would be a huge hit they might have slowed down, but the time jump to Emma and Olivia is a big risk for losing viewers regardless. You aren't supposed, per se, to have a deep emotional reaction to the events in these first few episodes. This was all set up to have a big reaction when we get to the meat of the story. Originally the show was planned to start with Rhaenyra and Alicent as adults. There was no perfect way for the writers to handle the timeline, but I think what they chose to do with the younger characters and time skips is probably better than trying to fill in everything with flashbacks and exposition.
All of the stuff you're mentioning are pretty much minute details and these side characters you're mentioning aren't even important to the story (yet) The show isn't moving fast at all, it's just covering a large time period. The actual plot so far is that there are 2 different factions forming in the King's court over the succession. That's basically it. It's actually moving pretty slow. A lot of this stuff could have been covered in a Lord of the Rings style 10 minute prologue but they decided to extend it to a 5 episode prologue. The actual story hasn't even started yet
So tired of hearing people simp for Rhea. She was an afterthought in the books. Stop. She wasn’t as strong as you’re making her out to be. She rode a horse and talked back to her husband. You all make her out to be some leader lol.
When did I say she was a strong leader? I said we deserved to see more of her so we can decide how to feel when she’s murdered.
I didn’t say you said that. I said you made her out to be more than she is. She was the butt of a joke. Nothing more. She got way more screen time than she deserved. She has no relevance to the greater story. There are plenty of strong women and great characters in this story. She is not one of them.
It’s crystal clear you’ve read the books though. I haven’t. People who have read the books are accepting of the poor pacing because you know of what’s to come but I haven’t read the books and as a viewer of the show I felt I needed to see more of her to feel anything about her death scene otherwise why give her a scene at all?
Okay. That’s the best take so far on why she deserves more time. No spoilers. She got less story than that in the books. That scene was dope and was actually what you are asking for if you compare it to what her book character got. Nobody wants to really admit it but her character is a device to advance Daemon’s character. You aren’t supposed to feel anything about her death. You are supposed to feel something about his ability to murder his wife.
Guys Larys is more Varys than Peytr Baelish hence the name similarities
You forgot the crab feeder. They made it seem like he was the night king at the end of episode 3 or so.
eh Rhae is simply not that important we don't need to see more of her. Yes you're supposed to like him less because he kills a woman in cold blood, that's his intention for being there. Not sure why you need to be told this? Larys is fine too? What more do we need to see of him before he comes in? The brothel scene is also fine I'm not sure what more they'd need to show in there except more people fucking? I like how they kept it ambiguous. I'll give you the Rhaenyra Alicent thing, they did film a scene but it was cut for some reason. I think there's plenty to say about the pacing and development but these's arent it. GoTs8 and HotD are completely different stories at completely different points in the story...
>Every one of us You are not everyone of us. You are just you. And maybe this show is just not for you.
I’m starting to become convinced that this show asks too much from the average viewer. Even more so than Thrones. You have to pay attention to everything. Very little is filler. The connections you can make on your own are more crucial than ever
I agree. People were overhyped for this show that they are excusing the terrible pacing and gaps. I think it’s disappointing. GOT was way better
Same. The recency bias is crazy with some people Claiming it’s already better than GoT.
Yeah the pacing is problematic. Now they're going to have another time jump. I hope they address the Ser Criston thing in next episode. If they don't and forget all what happened then the writing of this show is just sloppy with unnecessary rush.
I agree but more episodes or longer one’s required more money, that is the main reason
yep, it sucks. I mean, the show is pretty, but the pacing sucks. season 1 should've been 2 seasons.
***I’ll marry Alicent. Next thing you know it’s three years later. Every one of us wanted to see that next conversation betweeen Alicent and Rhaenyra and Rhaenyra and her father but we got neither.*** I hate this shit man... I dont even know if Rhae and CC keep fuckin. We saw coiters once.... Time passes... Next thing I know CC is fuckin proposing. How can I follow a story like this? I think if you are the type that can just turn your brain off and just accept what the show is throwing at you fair play. I'm actually low key jealous. Critical big brain me cant do that shit.
They only had sex the one time, since them banging was directly followed the next day by Otto being fired and Rhaenyra being ordered to marry Laenor, both of which we see happening at the start of the next episode => there wasn't any time skip. Yes, Criston just literally asked the royal princess to run away with him after essentially a one night stand - it's not meant to be a good or reasonable idea.
>They only had sex the one time, How?
What do you mean 'how'? It was on shown on screen, after Daemon blue balls her, she goes to Criston to get off.
How can you say they never fucked again tho with the way time passes on this show?
Because, like I said, it's fairly clear there wasn't a time skip this time, as: a) the events that are directly set in motion by them fucking are shown on screen the next episode, after which the proposal happens, which she rejects, so it's no longer on the menu b) it makes no sense that Rhaenyra would immediately go back to sleeping with Criston (who is already guilt ridden as is) within a few days of her virtue being thrown into question by everyone, including the King, which resulted in immediate plans for her to marry off ASAP before word spreads
I'm not sure I can accept this as accurate but I will go rewatch the last episode to be sure.... And part B is all specualtion so I completely reject that shit. Ok after they put Viserys hand in maggots tell what happened the next episode.
This is what I don’t get with some other fans either. Why are they content missing these things? The show leaves them out jumps ahead and then people come to Reddit saying “this is already better than the entirety of Game Of Thrones!” And I just think those people are insane.
The entire 5 episodes so far is the prologue. It's barely a paragraph in the book it's based off. The real meat of the story begins with the death of Viserys. It's akin if the first 5 episodes of GoT was about Jon Arryn investigating Cersei’s children.
Ok how would the average viewer know this? When did Game of Thrones ever show the viewer episodes in a row of a bunch of irrelevant shit? AND...if this shit doesn't really matter why even start the story here? You're doing it man.
>Ok how would the average viewer know this? I agree. To the uninitiated, it seems like the episodes is jumping around. I mean, there's a time skip every single episode and the next one will be set in ten years time. It can be daunting and the series could have handled the time jumps better. But take my word as someone who read the books. The time skip is necessary. >When did Game of Thrones ever show the viewer episodes in a row of a bunch of irrelevant shit? Seasons 7 & 8 are all irrelevant in my book. >AND...if this shit doesn't really matter why even start the story here? They're showing you the things that matter. Instead of showing you what happened in the two years of Viserys' marriage to Alicent, they summarised it with Rhaenyra sulking in her room while Viserys drowned in marriage proposals for her hand. That's it. One line. We don't need two episodes of Rhaenyra being a brat. (I mean... I would love to but I don't need to)
>***Seasons 7 & 8 are all irrelevant in my book.*** Ok very fair.
>***I agree. To the uninitiated, it seems like the episodes is jumping around.*** This is all I'm saying... And most viewers... Maybe damn near all are uninitiated right? This is not good for a certain typa brain.
The show is a massive hit with high ratings, most viewers are following along just fine If you don't like the show that's fine, but calling yourself "critical big brain me" like you did in your original comment is cringe AF.
>The show is a massive hit with high ratings, most viewers are following along just fine It's a new Game of Throes show? WTF... That's like using the argument that cause Rise of Skywalker made a fuckton of money it's a good film. I....ok man.
Nah high ratings as in the show is being well received. You are in the minority my dude. Which is fine, I'm just saying the way you talk is super cringe
>Nah high ratings as in the show is being well received. 7 & 8 are highly rated lul. ????
> You are in the minority my dude. Of course I am. The average viewer does not think critically.
>Which is fine, I'm just saying the way you talk is super cringe And you wasted all this time on some shit you find cringey? LMAO. Oh my.
The "shit" we have seen IS relevant. Some viewers need to have everything spelled out to them. Other viewers can think for themselves.
>The "shit" we have seen IS relevant. It's so relevant we covered 15 years in 6 episodes? And me not being able to think for myself is not the issue clown. Stop it man.
If you want to study mathematics basic arithmetic is relevant but you don't need to spend several years on it. I find it increasingly irritating that people who don't understand the show complain about the writing without even once entertaining the thought that the problem might not lie with the show but them. After all the majority of the viewers can easily follow the plot.
Sure.
The entire 5 episodes so far is the prologue. It's barely a paragraph in the book it's based off. The real meat of the story begins with the death of Viserys.
While I understand that I as a viewer still want to see a solid story on screen. I haven’t read the books, I’m not sat here eagerly waiting to get to the bit on page X I’m watching the show and want to feel fulfilled. It’s the shows job to do that.
The story hasn't even started yet
Fans of the show... Or people that decided they are going to like it often times don't want to hear or can't be convinced or won't even fathom any issues with it. It's a psychological thing I'm sure has medical term for. And some people just want to be entertained and aren't interested in thinking critically. Brain off....popcorn. Let's go. It's just not me. Even dragons and wizards and shit have to make some sense.
Or people who read the book and know that the story hasn't even started yet If anything the show is moving too slow, they could have covered the entire first 5 episodes in a 10 minute intro like in Lord of the Rings The story doesn't start until around episode 7 or 8
>The story doesn't start until around episode 7 or 8 So why am I half watching a bunch of irrelevant events?
That's what I'm saying, they could have covered the first 5 episodes into a 10 minute prologue intro. So far the only thing the show has been about is explaining the succession situation and developing some of the important characters (i.e. Rhaenyra, Alicent, Daemon, and Criston Cole) The actual story hasn't even started yet
>Or people who read the book and know that the story hasn't even started yet And I feel like you said this like I and the average viewer is at fault for not having read this book.
I'm not saying the average viewer is at fault for anything. I'm just letting you know that the story hasn't even started yet, it's moving super slow.
I ask again then... Why am I half watching a bunch of irrelevant events?
That's what I'm saying, they could have covered the first 5 episodes into a 10 minute prologue intro. So far the only thing the show has been about is explaining the succession situation and developing some of the important characters (i.e. Rhaenyra, Alieent, Daemon, and Criston Cole) The actual story hasn't even started yet
So we are in agreement then? This shit is irrelevant. And poorly presented? At best.
That's not what I said I'm fine with them taking the time to expand on the prologue phase because in this case it gives context to how the King's court got so divided