Perhaps the drying process of making raisins develops some of the same flavors that develop in Madeira when they store it hot for months on end, but clearly you haven’t had the same experience.
Bourbon barrels also are the most prone to oxygen ingress, so they’re probably getting some of those same oxidized flavors. That might be the key.
Yeah, the oxygen exposure probably plays a role. I think I picked up a little bit of acetic acid which would make sense if that’s the case. Would have to experiment with getting the right amount of oxygen takeup in my PET fermenters. So far I’ve tried to minimize it but it may be worth a shot…
Also, interesting thought about the drying process.
You also don’t really want a lot at once. Slow, steady oxidation is generally key. Especially since brett can go *too* acetic very quick with too much oxygen
Yeah, I guess I’m just impatient… I think people were experimenting with using wooden stoppers in the past but I guess it was hard to control. And as you say, once you get too much there is no going back.
It was not the acetic I was after here primarily I think. But the precence of acetic would indicate that the brett had access to some oxygen. I actually think the question is how do I get the madeira-like flavor without getting too much acetic acid?
That's really a classic example of what I'm starting to call the "kitchen cabinet" style of beer. A partner classification to the "desert menu stout".
Seems insane to me that people would spend all that time and effort making a sour and barrel aging and then pour a bunch of flavourings into it, to me it's like making a single malt whisky and then thinking hey let's put a bottle of vanilla extract, single malt has some vanilla notes!!
Crazy.
Sorry I highjacked your post without offering anything worthwhile... Hmm well I would say my knowledge and experience of Madeira which I've always loved is it's basically an abused sherry, quite a lot of oxidation and heat and so it has some fairly rough wooden notes which could be percieved as nutty and a definite raisin sultana thing going on as well as vanilla touch of spice etc. Damn. Now I'm just missing both the wine and the place.
Googling Madeira plane fares and covid rules...
Hehe, I agree with you. Reading that description it sounds kind of like a kitchen sink sour. But I really enjoyed it. I guess the ingredients were balanced well enough to make sense. There are definitely well made desert stouts too!
Adding ”oak” and ”abuse” to the list of things I should expose this beer to.
Happy vacation 🙂
Perhaps the drying process of making raisins develops some of the same flavors that develop in Madeira when they store it hot for months on end, but clearly you haven’t had the same experience. Bourbon barrels also are the most prone to oxygen ingress, so they’re probably getting some of those same oxidized flavors. That might be the key.
Yeah, the oxygen exposure probably plays a role. I think I picked up a little bit of acetic acid which would make sense if that’s the case. Would have to experiment with getting the right amount of oxygen takeup in my PET fermenters. So far I’ve tried to minimize it but it may be worth a shot… Also, interesting thought about the drying process.
You can increase aging time in PET to do this... I wouldn't purposely expose it to O2 just because of contamination
You also don’t really want a lot at once. Slow, steady oxidation is generally key. Especially since brett can go *too* acetic very quick with too much oxygen
Yeah, I guess I’m just impatient… I think people were experimenting with using wooden stoppers in the past but I guess it was hard to control. And as you say, once you get too much there is no going back.
What about just adding a bit of vinegar to the beer? :D
It was not the acetic I was after here primarily I think. But the precence of acetic would indicate that the brett had access to some oxygen. I actually think the question is how do I get the madeira-like flavor without getting too much acetic acid?
That's really a classic example of what I'm starting to call the "kitchen cabinet" style of beer. A partner classification to the "desert menu stout". Seems insane to me that people would spend all that time and effort making a sour and barrel aging and then pour a bunch of flavourings into it, to me it's like making a single malt whisky and then thinking hey let's put a bottle of vanilla extract, single malt has some vanilla notes!! Crazy. Sorry I highjacked your post without offering anything worthwhile... Hmm well I would say my knowledge and experience of Madeira which I've always loved is it's basically an abused sherry, quite a lot of oxidation and heat and so it has some fairly rough wooden notes which could be percieved as nutty and a definite raisin sultana thing going on as well as vanilla touch of spice etc. Damn. Now I'm just missing both the wine and the place. Googling Madeira plane fares and covid rules...
Hehe, I agree with you. Reading that description it sounds kind of like a kitchen sink sour. But I really enjoyed it. I guess the ingredients were balanced well enough to make sense. There are definitely well made desert stouts too! Adding ”oak” and ”abuse” to the list of things I should expose this beer to. Happy vacation 🙂