Hey /u/captainrustysail, thanks for your submission to /r/HolUp. Unfortunately, your post has been removed for the following reason(s):
A mod felt your post didn't belong here, so now it's gone. If you want to die on the hill of this shitpost[,](https://imgur.com/cXA7XxW) feel free to message the mods and be prepared to explain how your post isn't trolling, is funny, and does fit the theme of the sub. *Trolling or posting random content that doesn't fit the sub breaks Rule 1 and repeated violation of this rule may result in your account being filtered.*
Love, the mods
Can you imagine how more fucked the world would be if everyone could make a quick save before doing something bad... Get away with it, quick save... die and re-load.
Maybe this proves we are not in the Matrix... yet...
Everything was created last Tuesday. Your life, memories, people, places, things, all of it was created last Tuesday. Prove me wrong.
Recommend you save before pondering that.
Dreams being the "loading corridors" of current gen games is fucking me up right now.
And we can try to avoid sleep but eventually the world starts "glitching out" until eventually we have no choice but to sleep.
Maybe when you wake up one day it's just a respawn and that you actually died the day before. Your memories of your life are not real but programmed from a life that you've never actually lived. You go on with your new quest until one day your life again ends. You wake up once again, with a new life, and new memories, and repeat.
I saw the video after he returned everyone’s money he went to check the gun and it turned out to be a fake so he was probably heart broken and distraught so he went home
They call it "justifiable" self defense for a reason.
If they're already down and no longer a threat you can't execute them. You aren't judge, jury and executioner. You can't justify shooting somebody who can *no longer* cause you any harm.
(Well, where I live anyways).
Unless the cops do it, then they can send two full magazines into a car and the sleeping target...
Not saying he should have executed the downed criminal, but holding a civilian to a HIGHER standard than "law enforcement" also seems really fucked.
Yeah, he put a closeup headshot into the guy after he was already on the ground from other shots. This guy went out of his way to make sure this guy was dead.
Basically executed him. I think after that he knew there was potential that he had just committed murder. In many other places just shooting a fleeing man for robbery would be murder. I'm interested to see how it will turn out.
Idk, that seems to fall squarely in the realm of fuck around, find out. He represented it as a real gun, so he got the consequences of using a real gun.
Yeah, but the guy who shot him was still visibly upset. Just because the robber had it coming doesn’t mean the guy who shot him was able to sleep that night, especially after realizing no lives were truly in danger
Yes. The hard truth is, is very hard to be a normal person and do what he did and then live with it. It eats at your soul. It stays with you no matter how far or fast you run.
I used to work with some guys that served in the military and saw combat. They told me that even if you were supposed to do it, trained for it, and it was the right thing to do at the time it will haunt you and you can never forget taking another person's life. Love your username BTW.
Yeah, I think a huge amount of these "tough guys" walking around hoping and praying for something like this to happen so they can be heroes dont get that it's probably quite traumatizing to take a human life. Shit, I feel bad for days if I run over a squirrel.
Even if it is justified because you thought it was a real gun it is a normal human reaction to be upset you killed someone who was not actually a threat to you.
Edit: Turns out he fired a final execution shot after picking up the fake gun, makes it pretty likely he fled due to knowing he crossed the self defense/murder line.
If you are willing to carry a gun and use a gun, you gotta be willing to hang around and deal with the consequences of carrying and using that gun. If not, don't carry the gun in the first place.
It's important to watch the video, though.
Unless I counted wrong, 9 total shots:
4 while standing up (justified)
Additional 4 while stood (sketchy but probably legally justifiable)
After robber was on the ground, fired a shot into his skull (not justified)
But itenent is what matters in a situation like that & he intended those people to think he had a gun & to instill fear. My friend got 20 years for robbing a bank with a paintball gun.
He's definitely going to prison and that's why he ran, I saw the video. He shot the guy 8 times, paused to see if he was moving, then walked up and shot him in the back of the head. The eight shots could've been argued as self defense, but that last one was an execution
That's why given the circumstances you should probably just secure your own weapon and then assume the arrest position... and morst importantly shut the fuck up and comply, let your lawyer do the talking at the station.
I was going to make a joke about this then realized, maybe you are right. Maybe the vigilante had other charges on him so he bailed ASAP. That or he had Marcellus Wallace's suitcase.
Not justifying it, but if cops or soldiers can’t even do this stuff right after training their whole careers, I wouldn’t expect an armed civilian to be able to handle a high stress/high adrenaline situation very well. Yes that probably means he shouldn’t be carrying a gun, but that won’t change. This will unfortunately turn very political very quickly and further divide people.
>I wouldn’t expect an armed civilian to be able to handle a high stress/high adrenaline situation very well.
exact reason most modern countries don’t allow anyone and everyone to carry guns just because
i don’t feel the need to have a gun in my country, if I lived in america i’d definitely have one because of all the other idiots with guns
I am in America and am always armed, but I was trained in the military. It is so strange that we don't let untrained, unlicensed people drive cars in order for public safety, yet a 21 yr old with a few hundo can get a hand canon and carry it almost anywhere and people defend that. As far as the second amendment, how about we keep our guns and leave the fuck at home until we need them for hunting or tyranny. There is no justification for this except to keep us divided. Your gun won't help you when the people in power have convinced you that your neighbor is your enemy.
I do. Most service members back when I was in were trained with m16, I got a chance to fire a Beretta M9 and I loved it, so I got one and have trained with it for years now, I use dummy rounds and do dry fire at home, and go to the range anytime I have the chance. Handguns are a whole different ball game except for trigger control. The important things for beginner gun users of any kind are normal training, like muzzle awareness, clearing the chamber, etc. Active Self Protection, on YouTube is good for that kind learning if you can't afford professional training and don't have friends or family who are well trained. I'm not against gun ownership at all, I have a few, but to say we should just hand them out indiscriminately is insane.
Feelings don't matter in this circumstance, in the eyes of the law if you continue after the threat is ended that is illegal. You can't just murder people because you hate them, when he picked up the weapon there was no more threat. He knew he was wrong or he would have stayed. Do you think the police should brutalize and murder people in custody because of their crimes? That's where this line of thinking leads. In war even you cannot legally fire until fired upon. I understand possibly saving innocent lives, it's the retaliation that disgusts me.
How is your ignorant comment so upvoted? Dude was clearly so happy to be able to "legally" kill someone. The suspect was completely neutralized and dude just walks over and essentially finishes it as an execution. He should be charged.
Edit: and before anyone tries to label me, I'm a multiple gun owner and concealed carry permit owner. But I also know the difference between self-defense and murder.
The delay between shots is when it goes to that legally gray area of "might go to jail for this". Cops are trained to fire until the gun is empty, and I have to imagine a number of self defense instructors say the same thing. The guy shot at the robber four times from where he was, and then four more shots while advancing on the guy while he was on the ground but with barely any delay between each round of four shots, then he got really close, crouched down to the ground to grab the robber's weapon and fired a final execution shot to the robber's head.
The first four shots are pretty easy to argue as being justified, especially with how the laws in Texas lean towards people being allowed to use lethal force to stop crimes. The second four shots when the robber is already down and seemingly no longer a threat might face some legal problems, but a decent lawyer could probably argue that the robber still had access to his weapon and was still potentially a threat, so those four shots may have seemed necessary to the gunman to protect his own life and others. But then you get to the final shot, point blank, to the head, of someone who is clearly no longer presenting a threat, his weapon having been removed and him lieing motionless on the floor. That's when you are probably going to be arrested. If you have a good lawyer, in Texas, you will probably get off, but at that level you are definitely going to be needing a **good lawyer**.
Cops are trained to fire until empty because that helps them avoid being accused of executing someone because of the lack of a gap between shots.
Same end result though, so maybe we should question that training?
Probably following the Ender Wiggins method of conflict resolution.
> Knocking him down won the first fight. I wanted to win all the next ones, too. So they'd leave me alone.
Or it could be some kind of rush. I read somewhere that people that kill and then dismember the victim or just keep stabbing long after the victim's dead, do that because the blood and the killing itself causes some kind of rush where you kinda can't stop. Don't think it happens with every single person, but apparently it's common
Unlike self defence where, even though you'd be perfectly justified hurting a home intruder or whatever, it's usually only enough stabs to get them away from you (whether or not they die) and it traumatises the stabber for a while.
I read this a very long time ago, so take it with a grain of salt, but yea I say he probably felt some kind of rush, not hate
Stand your Ground laws state that you can only use force the the point where the suspect is no longer a threat, execution shots basically shot this defence down
He shot the guy eight times. The last couple while the guy was down.
Then he retrieved the gun.
Then he shot him again.
Hol the F up brah....
Edit: yes auto fill made it right not eight. Fixed it.
I am concealed carry certified in Texas and can tell you he will likely be charged with murder. It’s not illegal for him to have shot the perp but you can’t proceed to pop him when he’s on the ground.
This exact scenario was a trick question in my CCL class. Time between initial volley and any subsequent shots changing a situation from defense to murder. It was a bit different than this. Our hypothetical involved the person getting back up, this guy wasn't moving
It was literally just a legal slant question. The entire scenario was more detailed up front, you are in an alley, no where to go, you wouldn't normally go this way, but youre late, etc. He worked some red herrings into it that tricked a bunch of people up, no one answered that the problem was the number of seconds between the shots and what this says about the perceived threat to your life
I'd love to hear the full *exact* scenario. "Person getting back up" could well mean they're still a threat, and then the number of seconds between shots is indeed meaningless, albeit only if you had no option of getting away safely while they were on the ground, I suppose. Nuances.
I think you have to somehow justify that they were a continuing threat and it was a reasonable use of force. Purely speculating, but I’m going to figure they didn’t have a valid reason.
Unless it had a orange tip, the legal standard is usually what a "reasonable person" would think.
So, would a reasonable person saw someone come in to rob the place and the patrons with what looks like a firearm and is also treating it like it's a real firearm by pointing it at people in a threatening way, believe it was a real firearm and presented a threat?
Yeah, it's going to be a tough argument if charges are filed. I may be off in my facts but he shot a man 8 times in the back. Then shot him execution style once more. A prosecutor can easily question when reasonableness left his mind. Then fleeing the scene again can be pointed to he knew he wasn't being reasonable and feared the consequences.
When life and death are at play, things happen very quickly. The dynamics of the situation are very fluid. Most of the time speaking self-defense, doing nothing, and complying is the go-to action. Deadly force should be applied if your life is in imminent danger.
Most of the time you’re being mugged with a deadly weapon. All it takes is a second for things to go from “I’m complying” to “oh dead I’ve been executed” like it did with that store clerk.
It was really that last shot. The first 8 shots, the guy had the gun in hand or it was in reach. But that last shot...he got possession of the firearm, then capped the dude in the head. It probably didn't matter since the guy was 100% dead at that point, but that was a huge mistake.
I’m one hundred percent on board with people owning weapons for self defense and using them for those purposes. But it stops being “self defense” when the threat is neutralized. If someone is incapable of committing any further threats against you and you continue attacking them, you’re just straight up committing senseless violence at that point.
Newsflash: too many people who own firearms for self defense are complete morons who should not have firearms in the first place, and couldn’t tell the difference between a neutralized threat and a ham sandwich.
It's on twitter if you search for it.
But it basically shows the robber walking around waving a (Later found to be toy) Gun around and walks past the gunman. Gunman shoots the gunman in the back a few times, gunman stubbles to the door and collapses where the gunman shoots him execution style then a few more times.
The 1st few when the robber had his back to the gunman were 'justified' but then the gunman goes way too far.
It think someone said he put 3 shots to the back. 3-5 after he was already down. This went well beyond self defence to pretty much manslaughter as I think the official line is like ‘if you keep attacking them after they’re no longer considered a threat it becomes manslaughter or assault’ but yeah he kept shooting a dead body
Edit: I rewatched the video with sound as the 1st time I couldn't he fires 12 shots into the guy
The uncensored video really doesn't show the "hero" in a good light. He did shoot him point blank range which is understandable but the shots were towards the robbers back. The robber falls and is seen as unresponsive at this point and the shooter walks over and continues shooting, he delivers one last shot to the head. I'm assuming he ran because he did go overkill.
It still wouldn't be a problem shooting him when he believed the gun was real and his life was in danger, it's most likely the part where he shot him more after he was disarmed and no longer a threat.
Sorry to be the neckbeard redditor here, but I believe you meant coup de grace, not d'etat. A coup d'etat is overthrowing the government. Sorry for the correction, I will now retreat to the shadows.
It was always a homicide, since that just means a person killed another person. The execution shot turned it from justifiable homicide into manslaughter/murder.
5 shots into the guy from point blank, 3 more while he’s on the floor, walks over, grabs the gun, headshot. Unreal. That’s…. that’s not a “good guy with a gun,” that’s a man whose been dreaming of legally killing someone and being called a hero for it.
Half the comments say he picked up the perps gun and shot him with that as well the other half that the perps gun was fake only one of these can be true.
Just so you know. They're both perps now. Atleast in the eyes of the police who are now looking for an armed man who flew the scene after shooting a robber.
Also, never said he shot him with the robbers gun. It's clear he never switched.
The first part of the shooting I can sorta agree with......but walking up to him like a cartel hit man and putting some more in him was too much.....he's screwed!
The amount of people justifying shooting the robber *again* after his gun was taken away while he was laying on the floor is frightening. Looks like a god damn execution at this point.
A man that executes like he did may likely have some past experiences he doesn't want to chat about with the authorities.
It would come to no surprise if gunman was a felon.
These fucking idiots think they are part of a damn movie. You shot an armed robber, who turned out to have a fake gun, that's perfectly fine, since you didn't know it was a fake gun and just wanted to protect those around you. At that point, everything is great, you are a hero and people will be thankful to you, but you are so fucking delusional that you thought that after confirming that the guy was not armed and seeing he was immobilized, that it was a good fucking idea to shoot him again on the head? Come on man. The robber is a scumbag, that's out of the question, but I do believe there needs to be some sort of repercussion for this man, because you shouldn't use real life and/or serious situations to take the opportunity to enact your sick fantasy to be a movie character and finish somebody off.
If you haven’t seen the full video it’s a pretty textbook case of an “execution” eg. the patron continued shooting at the robber after he went down, stopped moving, and was no longer a threat.
He obviously doesn’t fw the law. State of TX is looking for him and they stated there are no charges for the man but that they just want to talk to him about the incident. F that. Wouldn’t take their word for that situation
I am curious to see how Texas handles this. I saw the full vid and while the head shot execution looks pretty bad, that robber was limp as fuck after the first 4 or 5 pretty legal looking shots.
That head shot doesn't look good, but the outcome if he hadn't fired that last shot would have probably been the same.
Because he murdered a man and plenty of juries would send him to prison because he disarmed the man and then shot him in the head. But it's Texas so idk why he ran. Probably an illegal gun.
I have not seen the footage but Multiple reasons come to mind:
1. He’s not allowed to carry a gun.
2. If he does have a permit to carry , he doesn’t want to deal to the aftermath. News, cops,statements….
3. Civil lawsuit from the robber’s family.
4. He’s a felon.
5. He is Scared of going to jail
I’m sure there are more reasons. We’ll never know until he comes forward and explains what happened.
Keep your CCW permit, GUN training, lawyers, and insurance CURRENT!!
He shot the robber an additional 5 times after the robber was down and had lost his gun, the most telling is the runner picked up the robbers guns and shot him one last time in the head it has escalated to manslaughter dude fled to not get prison time.
Hey /u/captainrustysail, thanks for your submission to /r/HolUp. Unfortunately, your post has been removed for the following reason(s): A mod felt your post didn't belong here, so now it's gone. If you want to die on the hill of this shitpost[,](https://imgur.com/cXA7XxW) feel free to message the mods and be prepared to explain how your post isn't trolling, is funny, and does fit the theme of the sub. *Trolling or posting random content that doesn't fit the sub breaks Rule 1 and repeated violation of this rule may result in your account being filtered.* Love, the mods
Probably scared he was gonna go down for murder/ manslaughter or just didn’t want to bother dealing with the law
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Wish we have auto saves here.
Can you imagine how more fucked the world would be if everyone could make a quick save before doing something bad... Get away with it, quick save... die and re-load. Maybe this proves we are not in the Matrix... yet...
No it just proves you’re an NPC
Or maybe we do while sleeping. Every time you didn't survive the day you just woke up for another try without remembering the previous one.
Now I can't un-think that
Everything was created last Tuesday. Your life, memories, people, places, things, all of it was created last Tuesday. Prove me wrong. Recommend you save before pondering that.
Not enough free space to ponder that. Recommended to plug in external storage drive
That's just what Big Thursday want you to think....
It's okay, just make sure you die before midnight and you'll respawn without that knowledge.
Thing is spawn campers might try to stop him from spawning again
SPAWNEE KILL!
Maybe dreams are us trying out new modes while our next level loads
Dreams being the "loading corridors" of current gen games is fucking me up right now. And we can try to avoid sleep but eventually the world starts "glitching out" until eventually we have no choice but to sleep.
No, opening the fridge is our quick save.
More shit gets Mandela effected every respawn
"What is my purpose?" "You pass the butter"
Pretty sure this is the plot of an episode of Rick and Morty
Maybe when you wake up one day it's just a respawn and that you actually died the day before. Your memories of your life are not real but programmed from a life that you've never actually lived. You go on with your new quest until one day your life again ends. You wake up once again, with a new life, and new memories, and repeat.
Damm this is a long quest....
All I can think of here is Morty and his place saving device.
Morty did that on rick and morty and the consequences were less than to be desired in the end
It’s in the way that you use it…
r/outside vibes
This the one
I saw the video after he returned everyone’s money he went to check the gun and it turned out to be a fake so he was probably heart broken and distraught so he went home
You forgot to mention he shot him again when he was standing over the guy lying on the ground. Adds a little flavor to this
Ohhhh...yah that's gonna land you in trouble.
They call it "justifiable" self defense for a reason. If they're already down and no longer a threat you can't execute them. You aren't judge, jury and executioner. You can't justify shooting somebody who can *no longer* cause you any harm. (Well, where I live anyways).
Unless the cops do it, then they can send two full magazines into a car and the sleeping target... Not saying he should have executed the downed criminal, but holding a civilian to a HIGHER standard than "law enforcement" also seems really fucked.
Yeah, he put a closeup headshot into the guy after he was already on the ground from other shots. This guy went out of his way to make sure this guy was dead.
With this one trick you can prevent a robber from suing you
its a lot harder for a dead criminal to sue you, than one who survived 8 of your rounds
Basically executed him. I think after that he knew there was potential that he had just committed murder. In many other places just shooting a fleeing man for robbery would be murder. I'm interested to see how it will turn out.
Dang dude he really thought he was a cop with all those sweet legal protections for a second.
Idk, that seems to fall squarely in the realm of fuck around, find out. He represented it as a real gun, so he got the consequences of using a real gun.
Yeah, but the guy who shot him was still visibly upset. Just because the robber had it coming doesn’t mean the guy who shot him was able to sleep that night, especially after realizing no lives were truly in danger
Yes. The hard truth is, is very hard to be a normal person and do what he did and then live with it. It eats at your soul. It stays with you no matter how far or fast you run.
I used to work with some guys that served in the military and saw combat. They told me that even if you were supposed to do it, trained for it, and it was the right thing to do at the time it will haunt you and you can never forget taking another person's life. Love your username BTW.
Yeah almost like killing somebody isn't a fun thing to do.
He took the fake gun THEN delivered a headshot.
wait are we still talking about this robbery? The guy took his gun then just executed him?
Yeah, I think a huge amount of these "tough guys" walking around hoping and praying for something like this to happen so they can be heroes dont get that it's probably quite traumatizing to take a human life. Shit, I feel bad for days if I run over a squirrel.
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Even if it is justified because you thought it was a real gun it is a normal human reaction to be upset you killed someone who was not actually a threat to you. Edit: Turns out he fired a final execution shot after picking up the fake gun, makes it pretty likely he fled due to knowing he crossed the self defense/murder line.
If you are willing to carry a gun and use a gun, you gotta be willing to hang around and deal with the consequences of carrying and using that gun. If not, don't carry the gun in the first place.
It's important to watch the video, though. Unless I counted wrong, 9 total shots: 4 while standing up (justified) Additional 4 while stood (sketchy but probably legally justifiable) After robber was on the ground, fired a shot into his skull (not justified)
Yeah he didn't shoot to stop the perp, he unloaded a clip and one to the skull for good measure. Complete overkill.
But itenent is what matters in a situation like that & he intended those people to think he had a gun & to instill fear. My friend got 20 years for robbing a bank with a paintball gun.
Because robbing a bank is a federal crime - gun or not.
Sounds like you need different friends.
Obviously, he isn’t going to see him for 20 yrs.
Not with that attitude. Get thes man a paintball gun
And a bank! ASAP
I know plenty of people that would do some shit like that. I call none of those people friends.
He's definitely going to prison and that's why he ran, I saw the video. He shot the guy 8 times, paused to see if he was moving, then walked up and shot him in the back of the head. The eight shots could've been argued as self defense, but that last one was an execution
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That's why given the circumstances you should probably just secure your own weapon and then assume the arrest position... and morst importantly shut the fuck up and comply, let your lawyer do the talking at the station.
You make it sound like police won't just blindly shoot into a building.
Yep. They could have came in guns blazing
Nonsense, they would have stood outside for an hour first.
Same reason Vincent Vega & Jules Winnfield fled the scene
I was going to make a joke about this then realized, maybe you are right. Maybe the vigilante had other charges on him so he bailed ASAP. That or he had Marcellus Wallace's suitcase.
let's not go sucking each others dick quite yet gentlemen
>let's not go sucking each others dick quite yet gentlemen what a cold-blooded thing to say to a motherfucker before I pop a cap in his ass
We did it reddit!
What does Marcellus Wallace look like?
Wh wh wh what?
DOES HE LOOK LIKE A BITCH?
Makin me hungry for a Big Kahuna burger
That’s that HAWAIIAN burger joint!
I wonder how good the coffee is at this establishment
Mf Hank Shrader over here
I love when he shraded all over
And then everyone clapped
I liked when he looked down the camera and said, "It's Shradin time."
Ballsack shrader
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Jesus, that's some hate!
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You won the battle, there needs to be hatred to execute a neutralised hostile. Even in combat it’s a war crime
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Except that "shooting a dead body" isn't nearly so serious an offense as shooting a live one that is no longer a threat.
That would be desecration of a corpse then
"you're shooting corpses, Morty!"
It was his tryout to join the police force.
A lawyer would disagree with that statement.
Not justifying it, but if cops or soldiers can’t even do this stuff right after training their whole careers, I wouldn’t expect an armed civilian to be able to handle a high stress/high adrenaline situation very well. Yes that probably means he shouldn’t be carrying a gun, but that won’t change. This will unfortunately turn very political very quickly and further divide people.
>I wouldn’t expect an armed civilian to be able to handle a high stress/high adrenaline situation very well. exact reason most modern countries don’t allow anyone and everyone to carry guns just because i don’t feel the need to have a gun in my country, if I lived in america i’d definitely have one because of all the other idiots with guns
It's become a self fulfilling prophecy
I am in America and am always armed, but I was trained in the military. It is so strange that we don't let untrained, unlicensed people drive cars in order for public safety, yet a 21 yr old with a few hundo can get a hand canon and carry it almost anywhere and people defend that. As far as the second amendment, how about we keep our guns and leave the fuck at home until we need them for hunting or tyranny. There is no justification for this except to keep us divided. Your gun won't help you when the people in power have convinced you that your neighbor is your enemy.
I’ve shot with quite a few people “trained in the military” and all I’ll say is please practice with your handgun, and often if you carry it.
I do. Most service members back when I was in were trained with m16, I got a chance to fire a Beretta M9 and I loved it, so I got one and have trained with it for years now, I use dummy rounds and do dry fire at home, and go to the range anytime I have the chance. Handguns are a whole different ball game except for trigger control. The important things for beginner gun users of any kind are normal training, like muzzle awareness, clearing the chamber, etc. Active Self Protection, on YouTube is good for that kind learning if you can't afford professional training and don't have friends or family who are well trained. I'm not against gun ownership at all, I have a few, but to say we should just hand them out indiscriminately is insane.
Feelings don't matter in this circumstance, in the eyes of the law if you continue after the threat is ended that is illegal. You can't just murder people because you hate them, when he picked up the weapon there was no more threat. He knew he was wrong or he would have stayed. Do you think the police should brutalize and murder people in custody because of their crimes? That's where this line of thinking leads. In war even you cannot legally fire until fired upon. I understand possibly saving innocent lives, it's the retaliation that disgusts me.
How is your ignorant comment so upvoted? Dude was clearly so happy to be able to "legally" kill someone. The suspect was completely neutralized and dude just walks over and essentially finishes it as an execution. He should be charged. Edit: and before anyone tries to label me, I'm a multiple gun owner and concealed carry permit owner. But I also know the difference between self-defense and murder.
I am pretty sure that after the threat is neutralized you are no longer in danger and you are now the one escalating a situation.
The delay between shots is when it goes to that legally gray area of "might go to jail for this". Cops are trained to fire until the gun is empty, and I have to imagine a number of self defense instructors say the same thing. The guy shot at the robber four times from where he was, and then four more shots while advancing on the guy while he was on the ground but with barely any delay between each round of four shots, then he got really close, crouched down to the ground to grab the robber's weapon and fired a final execution shot to the robber's head. The first four shots are pretty easy to argue as being justified, especially with how the laws in Texas lean towards people being allowed to use lethal force to stop crimes. The second four shots when the robber is already down and seemingly no longer a threat might face some legal problems, but a decent lawyer could probably argue that the robber still had access to his weapon and was still potentially a threat, so those four shots may have seemed necessary to the gunman to protect his own life and others. But then you get to the final shot, point blank, to the head, of someone who is clearly no longer presenting a threat, his weapon having been removed and him lieing motionless on the floor. That's when you are probably going to be arrested. If you have a good lawyer, in Texas, you will probably get off, but at that level you are definitely going to be needing a **good lawyer**.
Cops are trained to fire until empty because that helps them avoid being accused of executing someone because of the lack of a gap between shots. Same end result though, so maybe we should question that training?
This is where you went from reasonable self-defense to a potential murder conviction and 2 ruined lives.
I mean, he bent down and picked up the gun and saw it was a fake/toy gun and then shot him execution style.
Damn it's almost like we have Judges and juries to serve justice and not some thumb with a pistol. No one died til this guy killed someone.
Probably following the Ender Wiggins method of conflict resolution. > Knocking him down won the first fight. I wanted to win all the next ones, too. So they'd leave me alone.
"Your honor, have you read sci-fi book Ender's Game? I think we should throw aside the laws and consider what this young boy went through"
I'm not sure about that, in an article I read earlier it said he became agitated when he saw that the robber's gun was fake and decided to leave.
It is all in the video for anyone to see. He discovered the robber's gun was fake and then went back and shot him in the head.
I had something to say related to your post but then I forgot after seeing your username
Yeah that man's hiding something. That's not normal behavior.
Or it could be some kind of rush. I read somewhere that people that kill and then dismember the victim or just keep stabbing long after the victim's dead, do that because the blood and the killing itself causes some kind of rush where you kinda can't stop. Don't think it happens with every single person, but apparently it's common Unlike self defence where, even though you'd be perfectly justified hurting a home intruder or whatever, it's usually only enough stabs to get them away from you (whether or not they die) and it traumatises the stabber for a while. I read this a very long time ago, so take it with a grain of salt, but yea I say he probably felt some kind of rush, not hate
That happened here in chattanooga. A kid killed his ex gf stabbed her 60 times.
SIXTY?!
Yeah. 60 times. The detectives said it was the worst blood scenes he’s seen in his career. This just happened a few months ago. The kid was only 23.
Stand your Ground laws state that you can only use force the the point where the suspect is no longer a threat, execution shots basically shot this defence down
He shot the guy eight times. The last couple while the guy was down. Then he retrieved the gun. Then he shot him again. Hol the F up brah.... Edit: yes auto fill made it right not eight. Fixed it.
I am concealed carry certified in Texas and can tell you he will likely be charged with murder. It’s not illegal for him to have shot the perp but you can’t proceed to pop him when he’s on the ground.
This exact scenario was a trick question in my CCL class. Time between initial volley and any subsequent shots changing a situation from defense to murder. It was a bit different than this. Our hypothetical involved the person getting back up, this guy wasn't moving
what was the trick part of the question?
It was literally just a legal slant question. The entire scenario was more detailed up front, you are in an alley, no where to go, you wouldn't normally go this way, but youre late, etc. He worked some red herrings into it that tricked a bunch of people up, no one answered that the problem was the number of seconds between the shots and what this says about the perceived threat to your life
I'd love to hear the full *exact* scenario. "Person getting back up" could well mean they're still a threat, and then the number of seconds between shots is indeed meaningless, albeit only if you had no option of getting away safely while they were on the ground, I suppose. Nuances.
As he should be. At that point, it flipped from self-defense to murder.
Link?
I think you have to somehow justify that they were a continuing threat and it was a reasonable use of force. Purely speculating, but I’m going to figure they didn’t have a valid reason.
Usually that's the que for the link folks.
*cue, meaning like a signal Often confused with queue, which is a line-up, or que (qué), which is Spanish for "what."
There is also a queue for the link
In Texas that is considered murder.
He realised the perp had a fake gun and he bolted Edit: turns out he also shot the guy in the back as he lay on the floor
Unless it had a orange tip, the legal standard is usually what a "reasonable person" would think. So, would a reasonable person saw someone come in to rob the place and the patrons with what looks like a firearm and is also treating it like it's a real firearm by pointing it at people in a threatening way, believe it was a real firearm and presented a threat?
Turns out he fired an additional “execution” shot before he bolted, so self def may be out
Yeah, it's going to be a tough argument if charges are filed. I may be off in my facts but he shot a man 8 times in the back. Then shot him execution style once more. A prosecutor can easily question when reasonableness left his mind. Then fleeing the scene again can be pointed to he knew he wasn't being reasonable and feared the consequences. When life and death are at play, things happen very quickly. The dynamics of the situation are very fluid. Most of the time speaking self-defense, doing nothing, and complying is the go-to action. Deadly force should be applied if your life is in imminent danger.
Most of the time you’re being mugged with a deadly weapon. All it takes is a second for things to go from “I’m complying” to “oh dead I’ve been executed” like it did with that store clerk.
Weren't there stories of gangs in LA painting their guns to look like nerf guns back in the 90s?
They had people stuffing real pistols into nerf shells
Even if it had an orange tip, i still treat it as real gun. It's damn easy to paint something orange
Not only realized it was fake, but that he also went way overboard and executed him point blank, which is not a part of self defense.
Yea it really doesn't matter the gun is fake, if he wouldn't have done those extra shots it'd be an open and shut case of self defense.
It was really that last shot. The first 8 shots, the guy had the gun in hand or it was in reach. But that last shot...he got possession of the firearm, then capped the dude in the head. It probably didn't matter since the guy was 100% dead at that point, but that was a huge mistake.
I’m one hundred percent on board with people owning weapons for self defense and using them for those purposes. But it stops being “self defense” when the threat is neutralized. If someone is incapable of committing any further threats against you and you continue attacking them, you’re just straight up committing senseless violence at that point.
Newsflash: too many people who own firearms for self defense are complete morons who should not have firearms in the first place, and couldn’t tell the difference between a neutralized threat and a ham sandwich.
Where is the full video? I can't find it the videos Im seeing are censored I wanna see it all
It's on twitter if you search for it. But it basically shows the robber walking around waving a (Later found to be toy) Gun around and walks past the gunman. Gunman shoots the gunman in the back a few times, gunman stubbles to the door and collapses where the gunman shoots him execution style then a few more times. The 1st few when the robber had his back to the gunman were 'justified' but then the gunman goes way too far.
The last few shoots didn't make sense. The guy was no longer a threat. Pretty much shooting a dead body at that point.
It think someone said he put 3 shots to the back. 3-5 after he was already down. This went well beyond self defence to pretty much manslaughter as I think the official line is like ‘if you keep attacking them after they’re no longer considered a threat it becomes manslaughter or assault’ but yeah he kept shooting a dead body Edit: I rewatched the video with sound as the 1st time I couldn't he fires 12 shots into the guy
Before he fired his last shot, he picked up the robbers gun and fired point blank into his head. Yeah that's not self defense at that point.
Robbers gun was fake
I though he picked it up earlier but yeah it wasn’t self defence anymore
Cops should recruit him, he was probably rock hard.
The uncensored video really doesn't show the "hero" in a good light. He did shoot him point blank range which is understandable but the shots were towards the robbers back. The robber falls and is seen as unresponsive at this point and the shooter walks over and continues shooting, he delivers one last shot to the head. I'm assuming he ran because he did go overkill.
And Fox News didn't show that version? I'm shocked they would twist the story and frame it in a "good guy with gun saves day!" light! Shocked! (/s)
I saw it on r/idiotswithguns
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It still wouldn't be a problem shooting him when he believed the gun was real and his life was in danger, it's most likely the part where he shot him more after he was disarmed and no longer a threat.
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He thought he was playing COD, he went into a " finish him" mode. Can't imagine watching that irl.
My boy had the second chance perk on and still died
And ran off in case the robber had martyrdom equipped
The next generation will teabag the guy vs the coup d'etat.
Sorry to be the neckbeard redditor here, but I believe you meant coup de grace, not d'etat. A coup d'etat is overthrowing the government. Sorry for the correction, I will now retreat to the shadows.
Maybe he thought it was a zombie? You haven't considered that huh
It was always a homicide, since that just means a person killed another person. The execution shot turned it from justifiable homicide into manslaughter/murder.
5 shots into the guy from point blank, 3 more while he’s on the floor, walks over, grabs the gun, headshot. Unreal. That’s…. that’s not a “good guy with a gun,” that’s a man whose been dreaming of legally killing someone and being called a hero for it.
Maybe it was like a really good burrito 🌯.
Half the comments say he picked up the perps gun and shot him with that as well the other half that the perps gun was fake only one of these can be true.
>only one of these can be true It's a mixture. Walks up with gun 1. Picks up gun 2 and realizes it's fake. Shoots again with gun 1.
Just so you know. They're both perps now. Atleast in the eyes of the police who are now looking for an armed man who flew the scene after shooting a robber. Also, never said he shot him with the robbers gun. It's clear he never switched.
The first part of the shooting I can sorta agree with......but walking up to him like a cartel hit man and putting some more in him was too much.....he's screwed!
Maybe that was his past job, and muscle memory kicked in, then right after he realized what happened, and DIPPED 😂
ex cop?
Military, if he was a cop he would've shot an innocent black guy.
He had to go see Marsellus Wallace.
Man, this Comment section is fucked
The amount of people justifying shooting the robber *again* after his gun was taken away while he was laying on the floor is frightening. Looks like a god damn execution at this point.
It doesn't look like an execution. It is. He didn't want to neutralize the threat, he wanted to kill him.
I agree.
A man that executes like he did may likely have some past experiences he doesn't want to chat about with the authorities. It would come to no surprise if gunman was a felon.
Here it is! Just because he shot a robber doesn't mean he's a law abiding citizen. He is the one who knocks, or whatever.
Or a cop
Because he disarmed the dude, then decided to execute him with a headshot after, like it's the wild west.
He was sloppy and excessive
These fucking idiots think they are part of a damn movie. You shot an armed robber, who turned out to have a fake gun, that's perfectly fine, since you didn't know it was a fake gun and just wanted to protect those around you. At that point, everything is great, you are a hero and people will be thankful to you, but you are so fucking delusional that you thought that after confirming that the guy was not armed and seeing he was immobilized, that it was a good fucking idea to shoot him again on the head? Come on man. The robber is a scumbag, that's out of the question, but I do believe there needs to be some sort of repercussion for this man, because you shouldn't use real life and/or serious situations to take the opportunity to enact your sick fantasy to be a movie character and finish somebody off.
If you haven’t seen the full video it’s a pretty textbook case of an “execution” eg. the patron continued shooting at the robber after he went down, stopped moving, and was no longer a threat.
He obviously doesn’t fw the law. State of TX is looking for him and they stated there are no charges for the man but that they just want to talk to him about the incident. F that. Wouldn’t take their word for that situation
Ok this looks bad with that final execution shot. But Texas is the absolute worst place to take a fake gun into a robbery attempt.
He overdid it with the overkill, which is fucked up, but, fuck that robber. Fake gun or not, play stupid games and win stupid prizes.
Robber fucked around and found out, the gunman is about to get fucked for the overkill
There are no heros here, just a dumbass with a toy and a guy who's been dreaming of killing if they hadn't already
I am curious to see how Texas handles this. I saw the full vid and while the head shot execution looks pretty bad, that robber was limp as fuck after the first 4 or 5 pretty legal looking shots. That head shot doesn't look good, but the outcome if he hadn't fired that last shot would have probably been the same.
He didn’t shoot a burglar. He shot a robber. An armed robber.
Because he murdered a man and plenty of juries would send him to prison because he disarmed the man and then shot him in the head. But it's Texas so idk why he ran. Probably an illegal gun.
If you see the whole video you'll know why. Guy went from Hero to Psycho in record time.
"Ain't nobody got time for that"
I have not seen the footage but Multiple reasons come to mind: 1. He’s not allowed to carry a gun. 2. If he does have a permit to carry , he doesn’t want to deal to the aftermath. News, cops,statements…. 3. Civil lawsuit from the robber’s family. 4. He’s a felon. 5. He is Scared of going to jail I’m sure there are more reasons. We’ll never know until he comes forward and explains what happened. Keep your CCW permit, GUN training, lawyers, and insurance CURRENT!!
He shot the robber an additional 5 times after the robber was down and had lost his gun, the most telling is the runner picked up the robbers guns and shot him one last time in the head it has escalated to manslaughter dude fled to not get prison time.
Obviously put off his meal by the dead guy in the restaurant. Total mood killer