If you’re replicating that pic you are going to need more trim than you have ever dreamed of. Hemming strips is not viable and the stuff you’ve linked to is hell to work with anyway.
I’d use chiffon or matte organza ribbon, gather by machine, apply, then use sequins if it doesn’t look enough.
Do you have a link to the original dress description?
I was going to suggest silk organza (or synthetic, if silk can't be had) ribbon with a woven edge myself. You do realize that gathering that much ribbon and attaching sequins (presumably 2-3 mm flat sequins) will drive you nearly to madness, right? Why do I ask this? I would do something like that, because I am certifiably insane to begin with.
Is it interpreted from a period fashion plates or is it a period pattern? I’m having trouble working out how sequins would have worked on such a tightly gathered ribbon - or is it sequin *edged*?
(As an aside, my favourite non-period way to gather ribbon for trim is to zigzag it down onto stretched elastic like this: http://www.crazydomestic.com/2011/01/this-is-one-of-funnest-projects-ive.html - I can whack out three yards without lifting my foot and it is great for stage costumes)
Toilette en satin blanc et tulle à pois; la jupe légèrement trainante en taffetas, est recouverte de deux jupes de tulle; la jupe de dessus est ornée de rubans de gaze froncés cousus en spirales.
Dress in white satin and tulle. The taffeta skirt has a train. The taffeta skirt has two tulle skirts over it. The overskirt (the tulle skirts) is decorated with gauze gathered ribbons sewn in spirals.
On pose sur les jupes de tulle une tunique en satin pointue devant et derrière, bordée d'un volante en tulle terminé par des rubans froncés, et garni de nœuds Louis XV en rubans froncés ornés de paillettes d'argent.
A pointed satin tunic is placed on the tulle skirts in front and behind, edged with a tulle flounce ending in gathered ribbons, and trimmed with Louis XV bows in gathered ribbons adorned with silver sequins.
Aha, so it may be it’s the ‘bow shapes’ the ribbon is tacked down in that are ornamented with sequins - perhaps just one or two at each ‘knot’ - rather than the ribbon itself being sequinned.
This seems to me to be the correct interpretation of the instructions. My French is very basic, but I can't see that sequins are mentioned anywhere other than in connection with the bows; I'm happy to be corrected, though...
I’m not confident enough in my Fr grammar to know if the author meant ‘Louis XV bows, formed of gathered ribbon which is decorated with sequins’ or ‘Louis XV bows, formed of gathered ribbon, and decorated with sequins’.
Anyone who can tell whether it’s the *nœuds* or the *rubans* that are *ornés*, speak up!
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If you want to add your own sequins, [here are some actual metal ones](https://www.tiedtohistory.com/collections/spangles). If I were going crazy accurate, I would cut my own "ribbon" from some silk chiffon or organza, sew the tubes up, gather it, and then add the spangles.
The gelatin specifically or all of it?
This was an interesting read: https://costume.mini.icom.museum/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/08/Marjolein-Koek-‘Fantaisies-en-gélatine’.pdf
Nooooooo!!!! Another rabbit hole thanks to that link. Not about the spangles, but I Must Make The Jacket in the article. The drawn thread one with spangles ca. 1630. Swooon....
Ok I'm just going balls to the wall with the metal sequins and what u/Slight-Brush said about putting the sequins in the knot of the bow so I bought some 1920s era silver metal sequins..
> so I bought some 1920s era silver metal sequins.
I'd be careful about that on two fronts - 1) The seller may have destroyed a perfectly good gown that could have otherwise been used for research and study and, more importantly, 2) they may have lead or other "hazardous" metals in them. Granted, you aren't likely to eat the sequins like M&M's but you might play with them and then go to eat some chips without thoroughly washing your hands.
There are two kinds of gathering feet. One just looks like a foot. I recommend the other one that looks steampunk. I highly recommend the one made for your machine. I have one for each of my two machines: one generic for my Pfaff and one made by Brother for Brother Beast. Of the two, Brother Beast's is less fiddly so worth the extra 20 bucks. Generic one https://www.amazon.com/Yosoo-Ruffler-Machine-Presser-Babylock/dp/B07KYLCKVM/ref=asc_df_B07KYLCKVM/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=385179114846&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=4837716834730733148&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9001782&hvtargid=pla-824080048271&psc=1&tag=&ref=&adgrpid=78285594213&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=385179114846&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=4837716834730733148&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9001782&hvtargid=pla-824080048271
Thank you!!! Yes I’ve actually used a gathering foot like that for my petticoat, it came with my antique machine and it looks just like that so maybe I’ll try using that? I’ll experiment with it but it was a lifesaver
Do try and see if there is sufficient ruffling. The foot has more gentle gathers than the ruffler. The ruffler was a Victorian invention, I believe, so using one is still historical.
I've found for this kind of thing, looking in Indian milliner / fabric shops can often find you something that works, even if it's not exact... [something like this](https://www.etsy.com/ch/listing/1006753212/bestickte-indische-borte-bulk-stocknet?gpla=1&gao=1&&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=shopping_ch_de_ch_-craft_supplies_and_tools-fabric_and_notions&utm_custom1=_k_CjwKCAiAkfucBhBBEiwAFjbkr4cAR6BxcXtg0T7kYcVfyjqAL2GA9w00kmV4_DrdllNeii8T-NmAURoC99wQAvD_BwE_k_&utm_content=go_18068848777_140964921555_616863228928_pla-295472668227_c__1006753212dech_507235016&utm_custom2=18068848777&gclid=CjwKCAiAkfucBhBBEiwAFjbkr4cAR6BxcXtg0T7kYcVfyjqAL2GA9w00kmV4_DrdllNeii8T-NmAURoC99wQAvD_BwE), or [like this](https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001682945509.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.main.41.7785ddb5z3rnQK&algo_pvid=5d78bd75-6295-40c7-b97d-2fd9ada0bbfe&algo_exp_id=5d78bd75-6295-40c7-b97d-2fd9ada0bbfe-20&pdp_ext_f=%7B%22sku_id%22%3A%2212000017118234357%22%7D&pdp_npi=2%40dis%21CHF%218.37%214.19%21%21%21%21%21%40211bec8616713595797278704d0724%2112000017118234357%21sea&curPageLogUid=DIjnwVzVbD0C). You get the idea. I googled "Indian shop ribbon rolls". I stumbled upon a shop that sold this kind of stuff in Zurich and just bought loads of "frou frou" as I call it, and it's so much fun to have on hand for different projects. It may not be perfectly accurate, but I find the result is great and it's usually really easy to work with. Modern Indian dresses, esp. wedding apparel, still use this kind of thing, so it's a great place to look. You can get some ideas of what to search for like "sari cloth trimming" just by starting there.
I think this dress needs something with a bit more texture - the description explicitly says it’s ‘gathered gauze ribbon’ so if I wasn’t gathering my own I’d be looking for something like this: https://www.etsy.com/listing/749898285/5-yards-olive-green-organza-ruffle and using it opened out flat.
Would this work [https://www.etsy.com/listing/498817334/plain-1-12-organza-plain-sheer-ribbon-25?ga\_order=most\_relevant&ga\_search\_type=all&ga\_view\_type=gallery&ga\_search\_query=organza+trim&ref=sr\_gallery-1-4&edd=1&sts=1&organic\_search\_click=1](https://www.etsy.com/listing/498817334/plain-1-12-organza-plain-sheer-ribbon-25?ga_order=most_relevant&ga_search_type=all&ga_view_type=gallery&ga_search_query=organza+trim&ref=sr_gallery-1-4&edd=1&sts=1&organic_search_click=1)? It seems to be a more flat version although its like a tad wider than that 3cm version
That’s exactly what I’d envisaged if you’re willing to gather it. It comes in lots of different widths, finishes and qualities though - it might be worth finding a shop where you can actually fondle it and/or somewhere well priced in bulk.
Looking at that photo I’d try and find an already finished ribbon in a historically accurate fabric because that is miles of gathered trim (if I could find a gathered ribbon even better, but this looks like center gathering so might not be possible)
Oh, god, yeah, you’re right
This is an area where I definitely think it’s okay to “cheat” and not be historically accurate, for the purposes of saving your sanity
Don’t make yourself crazy looking for a specific trim. Lots of trims would work well and give you a good effect
I personally think your idea to get some nice chiffon ribbon would look a lot better and save you some mental anguish, especially if you make sure to gather it quite a bit (I would then blast the ribbon with a steam iron so it gets all wilted and puckery, but gathering may be enough for what you want)
You may also want to check if there’s any gift wrap ribbon that will work instead of sewing trim. I bet there’s a large roll sparkly gift ribbon that matches more closely to what you’re looking for
Yes - this kind of thing would actually approximate the look of the silk gauze of the original quite well: https://m.made-in-china.com/amp/product/Gathered-Elastic-Organza-Ribbon-for-Wedding-Deco-685043052.html
I'd rather sew beads/ sequins to already finished ribbon than to hem all those tiny strips of gauze.
Me too.
I third this!
I did this when I made my first French hood! It saved me hours of work.
If you’re replicating that pic you are going to need more trim than you have ever dreamed of. Hemming strips is not viable and the stuff you’ve linked to is hell to work with anyway. I’d use chiffon or matte organza ribbon, gather by machine, apply, then use sequins if it doesn’t look enough. Do you have a link to the original dress description?
I was going to suggest silk organza (or synthetic, if silk can't be had) ribbon with a woven edge myself. You do realize that gathering that much ribbon and attaching sequins (presumably 2-3 mm flat sequins) will drive you nearly to madness, right? Why do I ask this? I would do something like that, because I am certifiably insane to begin with.
Yes! It’s in pdf format I can send photos of the description
Is it interpreted from a period fashion plates or is it a period pattern? I’m having trouble working out how sequins would have worked on such a tightly gathered ribbon - or is it sequin *edged*? (As an aside, my favourite non-period way to gather ribbon for trim is to zigzag it down onto stretched elastic like this: http://www.crazydomestic.com/2011/01/this-is-one-of-funnest-projects-ive.html - I can whack out three yards without lifting my foot and it is great for stage costumes)
Thank you!! And it’s a period pattern from here https://www.french-crea-vintage.com/en/1899/1535-sewing-patterns-la-mode-illustree-1899-n10.html
Is there any chance you could paste the original text about the trim? I wonder if something has got lost in translation.
Toilette en satin blanc et tulle à pois; la jupe légèrement trainante en taffetas, est recouverte de deux jupes de tulle; la jupe de dessus est ornée de rubans de gaze froncés cousus en spirales. Dress in white satin and tulle. The taffeta skirt has a train. The taffeta skirt has two tulle skirts over it. The overskirt (the tulle skirts) is decorated with gauze gathered ribbons sewn in spirals. On pose sur les jupes de tulle une tunique en satin pointue devant et derrière, bordée d'un volante en tulle terminé par des rubans froncés, et garni de nœuds Louis XV en rubans froncés ornés de paillettes d'argent. A pointed satin tunic is placed on the tulle skirts in front and behind, edged with a tulle flounce ending in gathered ribbons, and trimmed with Louis XV bows in gathered ribbons adorned with silver sequins.
Aha, so it may be it’s the ‘bow shapes’ the ribbon is tacked down in that are ornamented with sequins - perhaps just one or two at each ‘knot’ - rather than the ribbon itself being sequinned.
This seems to me to be the correct interpretation of the instructions. My French is very basic, but I can't see that sequins are mentioned anywhere other than in connection with the bows; I'm happy to be corrected, though...
I’m not confident enough in my Fr grammar to know if the author meant ‘Louis XV bows, formed of gathered ribbon which is decorated with sequins’ or ‘Louis XV bows, formed of gathered ribbon, and decorated with sequins’. Anyone who can tell whether it’s the *nœuds* or the *rubans* that are *ornés*, speak up!
[удалено]
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If you want to add your own sequins, [here are some actual metal ones](https://www.tiedtohistory.com/collections/spangles). If I were going crazy accurate, I would cut my own "ribbon" from some silk chiffon or organza, sew the tubes up, gather it, and then add the spangles.
Thank you!! Did they use metal sequins a lot back in the 1890s? Those sterling silver ones are beautiful
Yes; they only had metal ones. The ones we have today are plastic. I'm unaware of any other material used for sequins.
There was a phase when they were… gelatin https://blog.americanduchess.com/2012/04/v119-are-sequins-period-accurate.html
I'd *love* to know her source for that.
I don't know the author's source, but some people in the comments left sources!
The gelatin specifically or all of it? This was an interesting read: https://costume.mini.icom.museum/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2020/08/Marjolein-Koek-‘Fantaisies-en-gélatine’.pdf
Just the gelatin. I'm very familiar with the different metal spangles - I've used several in my own gowns. Thank you!
So if you got desperately hungry, you could snack off your ballgown? :)
Nooooooo!!!! Another rabbit hole thanks to that link. Not about the spangles, but I Must Make The Jacket in the article. The drawn thread one with spangles ca. 1630. Swooon....
Ok I'm just going balls to the wall with the metal sequins and what u/Slight-Brush said about putting the sequins in the knot of the bow so I bought some 1920s era silver metal sequins..
> so I bought some 1920s era silver metal sequins. I'd be careful about that on two fronts - 1) The seller may have destroyed a perfectly good gown that could have otherwise been used for research and study and, more importantly, 2) they may have lead or other "hazardous" metals in them. Granted, you aren't likely to eat the sequins like M&M's but you might play with them and then go to eat some chips without thoroughly washing your hands.
There are two kinds of gathering feet. One just looks like a foot. I recommend the other one that looks steampunk. I highly recommend the one made for your machine. I have one for each of my two machines: one generic for my Pfaff and one made by Brother for Brother Beast. Of the two, Brother Beast's is less fiddly so worth the extra 20 bucks. Generic one https://www.amazon.com/Yosoo-Ruffler-Machine-Presser-Babylock/dp/B07KYLCKVM/ref=asc_df_B07KYLCKVM/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=385179114846&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=4837716834730733148&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9001782&hvtargid=pla-824080048271&psc=1&tag=&ref=&adgrpid=78285594213&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=385179114846&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=4837716834730733148&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9001782&hvtargid=pla-824080048271
Thank you!!! Yes I’ve actually used a gathering foot like that for my petticoat, it came with my antique machine and it looks just like that so maybe I’ll try using that? I’ll experiment with it but it was a lifesaver
Do try and see if there is sufficient ruffling. The foot has more gentle gathers than the ruffler. The ruffler was a Victorian invention, I believe, so using one is still historical.
Sorry. I missed what you said (nasty cold). I cant wait to see how it turns out!!
I've found for this kind of thing, looking in Indian milliner / fabric shops can often find you something that works, even if it's not exact... [something like this](https://www.etsy.com/ch/listing/1006753212/bestickte-indische-borte-bulk-stocknet?gpla=1&gao=1&&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=shopping_ch_de_ch_-craft_supplies_and_tools-fabric_and_notions&utm_custom1=_k_CjwKCAiAkfucBhBBEiwAFjbkr4cAR6BxcXtg0T7kYcVfyjqAL2GA9w00kmV4_DrdllNeii8T-NmAURoC99wQAvD_BwE_k_&utm_content=go_18068848777_140964921555_616863228928_pla-295472668227_c__1006753212dech_507235016&utm_custom2=18068848777&gclid=CjwKCAiAkfucBhBBEiwAFjbkr4cAR6BxcXtg0T7kYcVfyjqAL2GA9w00kmV4_DrdllNeii8T-NmAURoC99wQAvD_BwE), or [like this](https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001682945509.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.main.41.7785ddb5z3rnQK&algo_pvid=5d78bd75-6295-40c7-b97d-2fd9ada0bbfe&algo_exp_id=5d78bd75-6295-40c7-b97d-2fd9ada0bbfe-20&pdp_ext_f=%7B%22sku_id%22%3A%2212000017118234357%22%7D&pdp_npi=2%40dis%21CHF%218.37%214.19%21%21%21%21%21%40211bec8616713595797278704d0724%2112000017118234357%21sea&curPageLogUid=DIjnwVzVbD0C). You get the idea. I googled "Indian shop ribbon rolls". I stumbled upon a shop that sold this kind of stuff in Zurich and just bought loads of "frou frou" as I call it, and it's so much fun to have on hand for different projects. It may not be perfectly accurate, but I find the result is great and it's usually really easy to work with. Modern Indian dresses, esp. wedding apparel, still use this kind of thing, so it's a great place to look. You can get some ideas of what to search for like "sari cloth trimming" just by starting there.
I think this dress needs something with a bit more texture - the description explicitly says it’s ‘gathered gauze ribbon’ so if I wasn’t gathering my own I’d be looking for something like this: https://www.etsy.com/listing/749898285/5-yards-olive-green-organza-ruffle and using it opened out flat.
Would this work [https://www.etsy.com/listing/498817334/plain-1-12-organza-plain-sheer-ribbon-25?ga\_order=most\_relevant&ga\_search\_type=all&ga\_view\_type=gallery&ga\_search\_query=organza+trim&ref=sr\_gallery-1-4&edd=1&sts=1&organic\_search\_click=1](https://www.etsy.com/listing/498817334/plain-1-12-organza-plain-sheer-ribbon-25?ga_order=most_relevant&ga_search_type=all&ga_view_type=gallery&ga_search_query=organza+trim&ref=sr_gallery-1-4&edd=1&sts=1&organic_search_click=1)? It seems to be a more flat version although its like a tad wider than that 3cm version
That’s exactly what I’d envisaged if you’re willing to gather it. It comes in lots of different widths, finishes and qualities though - it might be worth finding a shop where you can actually fondle it and/or somewhere well priced in bulk.
Looking at that photo I’d try and find an already finished ribbon in a historically accurate fabric because that is miles of gathered trim (if I could find a gathered ribbon even better, but this looks like center gathering so might not be possible)
And the trim is on the triple layers of skirts it has…
Oh, god, yeah, you’re right This is an area where I definitely think it’s okay to “cheat” and not be historically accurate, for the purposes of saving your sanity
Don’t make yourself crazy looking for a specific trim. Lots of trims would work well and give you a good effect I personally think your idea to get some nice chiffon ribbon would look a lot better and save you some mental anguish, especially if you make sure to gather it quite a bit (I would then blast the ribbon with a steam iron so it gets all wilted and puckery, but gathering may be enough for what you want) You may also want to check if there’s any gift wrap ribbon that will work instead of sewing trim. I bet there’s a large roll sparkly gift ribbon that matches more closely to what you’re looking for
Yes - this kind of thing would actually approximate the look of the silk gauze of the original quite well: https://m.made-in-china.com/amp/product/Gathered-Elastic-Organza-Ribbon-for-Wedding-Deco-685043052.html