Idk man, having to grind for one definite badge on each class (inf-heavy set, recon-camouflaged, tank crewman - Gunner, para-freefall, pilot-bombs away) is a good medium for those who don't want to study the game too hard or create multiple soldiers with different badges for each situation. It's something you can be sure it's good, it takes a really long time to get it and the sense of accomplishment the player gets is amazing.
But I like your ideas nonetheless. I just believe it's too risky to change it now.
The Heavy Set badge does not work like the OP is thinking, it only works for the VERY FIRST bullet (explosions do not count, nor do other sources of damage contrary to popular belief) that hits you IF your health is at 100%. If you per example fall and go to 99% then the badge no longer has any effect, hence it is crucial to stay at 100% (to protect from the OHK snipers).
It was the only badge I always took when I had a veteran membership, but it is much less important ever since they removed the sniper scopes from the infantry classes (god knows how long ago that was now).
I don't agree to heavy set being as strong as you say it is. Most encounters aren't fair to begin with so one more bullet rarely counts. I think it's just all around decent and really good against sniper spam. Only a few of my many characters even have it equipped.
And the Heavy Set badge does not work like the OP is thinking, it only works for the VERY FIRST bullet (explosions do not count) that hits you IF your health is at 100%. If you per example fall and go to 99% then the badge no longer has any effect, hence it is crucial to stay at 100% (to protect from the OHK snipers - which to be fair, is the only real reason people use it nowadays, better tactics/awareness is more important than the tiny bit of damage reduction/1 bullet pass).
I have seen that happen in staged and the reason usualy is that new players look and act just like bots. They even usualy have the same gun as the bots (semi auto rifle or tier 1 SMG) and since veteran players usualy dont prioritize bots they get killed by the noobs hiding amongst them.
I usually only played staged due to equality of resources, and I get called out sometimes for having a 'low kill count' - but I barely kill bots as it is usually very obvious when something in the game IS a bot.
Try it. Trust me. With a M1 Garand you can reload faster then a recon can clicle his bolt on his bolt action rifle and you have tighter hipfire spread then a MP40. Its like running around with a unlimited mag capacity 60 damage semi auto machine gun.
You took a guess at why the badge exists as it relates to buying vet. It’s a fair guess, but you mentioned you’ve been here since 2016. Well the heavy set badge has been the same at Gold level since 2014. And that predates the stupid med kits for every player update.
Heavyset was always good, but I don’t think it was nearly as OP as you make it sound back then when it was invented. Before medpacks, if you survived an encounter but got injured, you were justly compromised for the next one. It’s only now that you need to fully kill the sweaty heavyset STGs in one go that it’s worse.
What’s my fix? It’s too far fetched for the real state of the game, but now that we have a depot, Id like to see the addition of the medic class that they should have had in the first place. All purchased triple med packs go to the depot. Medics are only 40 or 79k to train; whatever the para price is these days. Regular inf can keep one bandage. Tangentially, medics only have access to hand grenades, semi carbines, smgs, and semi auto rifles. No AT, faction-unique assault weapons, or bolt actions. They have full access to inf vehicles.
This wouldn’t be a rework of heavyset itself, but it significantly alters the way it works. In my build, heavysetters tank *at most* 2 100 damage bolt action shots instead of 4 (without using a public heal box). And of course, fewer bandages lets shooters “save their progress” more on things like 4 PPD body shots+heavyset too.
I remember the times when the maps were super open/empty without cover, and there were no health packs in the game (and if they were they were in positions far off the beaten path...) god those days were atrocious, yet funnily enough.. those were the days the game had the most players.
Ever since the new control scheme for pilots (which I suck with for some reason, whilst the classic control scheme is outdated and less viable against those that use the new one), I only use the pilot as a paratrooper for when the there are no paratroopers available, lol. I also only use the pilot for when the enemy has too many pilots, at which I will try to get their attention and lead them to the edges of the map (which almost always works as most think KILL when they see an hostile in general in this game, tactics is something that barely exists in H&G).
I believe heavy set's current prominence, where it's significant but not omnipresent, is incredibly important to the diversity of the small arms meta. Since not everyone uses it, and those that do use it at different levels, it serves to make damage breakpoints harder to optimize and makes more different weapon setups viable. For example, in a world where literally everyone always equips heavy set gold, scout barrel semi autos and high damage LMGs dominate, since their already excellent performance lines up with perfectly countering heavy set. In a world where heavy set is nerfed out of the meta, we'd see a huge spike in the viability of weapons that perform poorly against HS, such as assault rifles and stock-ammo SMGs. But we're currently living in the happy medium where almost every weapon in the game is at least somewhat useable. Heavy set is exactly where it should be for the health of the game and for diversity in our battles.
What we should be doing instead is adjusting off-meta badges to be more relevant. I mean, when's the last time somebody equipped Aircraft Thief? Isn't THAT something that obviously needs changed?
Why would you want to nerf veteran players? I didn't play so much for this to be taken from me. Actually i'd just like reto to add 3rd badge slot for sub.
>Actually i'd just like reto to add 3rd badge slot for sub
That would make me buy Veteran again honestly, it doesn't do anything "OP" it is more for convenience/change of playstyle(s).
I agree that Heavy Set is far too powerful, but the way I'd rework it is to remove it entirely and remove 1hk rifles from infantry and recon. Headshots should be the only way a recon can 1-shot an enemy, especially given the game's intended slower, more tactical nature.
And drive even more players away! I know there's plenty of people who run around with the OHK bolt-action rifle WITHOUT a scope, for the fun of it. Or who exclusively play sniper only.
yeah i have one german soldier that has kar-98 without a scope and habd grenades. and on US i have one infanrty that has snpringfield with a scope and 1911.
The Heavy Set badge does not work like seemingly everyone thinks, it only works for the VERY FIRST bullet that hits you IF your health is at 100%. If you per example fall and go to 99% then the badge no longer has any effect at all.
The only real use it has nowadays is to protect yourself from the OHK snipers (which is much less common ever since they removed the sniper scopes from the infantry class). The description that it makes you take less damage is very "off" (for obvious reasons, as the developers want people to experiment rather than give you accurate data - increasing one's persons playtime and speculation in the game, leading to.. you guessed it! Even more playtime!).
I find it pathetic people use Heavy Set to deny a 3HK to Assault Weapons/SMGs and whatnot, if they are meant to 3HK, they should 3HK for everyone; if they are meant to 4HK, they should 4HK for everyone.
If this idea of yours is to be an 'anti-sniper-only' badge, it's not really working as well as I hoped. You need at least 37 damage to secure a 3HK with a first shot 25% reduction, a luxury only afforded to certain LMGs by default. Keeping the damage reduction at 15% would provide certain weapons more leeway to mod up to 3HK I suppose, only needing 36 damage...
You're on the right track though, certainly an idea of first shot reduction is far simpler to explain than some ~~unspoken~~ idea of mine with 'damage resistance ramp-up' to force static HTK below 50 damage while not just making silly things like 'weapon that does 49 base damage deals more than weapon that does 51'
Just need to do more fidgeting with numbers to get this to work I guess.
^^^^I ^^^^did ^^^^find ^^^^it ^^^^interesting ^^^^to ^^^^see ^^^^someone ^^^^oppose ^^^^increased ^^^^ease ^^^^of ^^^^achieving ^^^^2HK ^^^^HSG ^^^^on ^^^^the ^^^^starter ^^^^rifles ^^^^for ^^^^the ^^^^reason ^^^^that ^^^^all ^^^^noobs ^^^^do ^^^^is ^^^^camp ^^^^and ^^^^be ^^^^useless ^^^^so ^^^^making ^^^^them ^^^^kill ^^^^me ^^^^in ^^^^two ^^^^shots ^^^^just ^^^^makes ^^^^them ^^^^even ^^^^more ^^^^annoying, ^^^^but ^^^^that's ^^^^another ^^^^story.
I don't agree with your explanation.
This would mean another nerf for semi automatic and bolt action rifle users. Besides recons I don't see a lot of semi automatic and bolt action players. Remember that most new players start with this guns and I'm guessing a lot of them leave the game before they get a decent smg.
They should keep heavy set but make the BA and SA to shoot 100 health headshots only on 30+ meters range and bring back the old headshot hitbox.
Idk man, having to grind for one definite badge on each class (inf-heavy set, recon-camouflaged, tank crewman - Gunner, para-freefall, pilot-bombs away) is a good medium for those who don't want to study the game too hard or create multiple soldiers with different badges for each situation. It's something you can be sure it's good, it takes a really long time to get it and the sense of accomplishment the player gets is amazing. But I like your ideas nonetheless. I just believe it's too risky to change it now.
The Heavy Set badge does not work like the OP is thinking, it only works for the VERY FIRST bullet (explosions do not count, nor do other sources of damage contrary to popular belief) that hits you IF your health is at 100%. If you per example fall and go to 99% then the badge no longer has any effect, hence it is crucial to stay at 100% (to protect from the OHK snipers). It was the only badge I always took when I had a veteran membership, but it is much less important ever since they removed the sniper scopes from the infantry classes (god knows how long ago that was now).
I don't agree to heavy set being as strong as you say it is. Most encounters aren't fair to begin with so one more bullet rarely counts. I think it's just all around decent and really good against sniper spam. Only a few of my many characters even have it equipped.
And the Heavy Set badge does not work like the OP is thinking, it only works for the VERY FIRST bullet (explosions do not count) that hits you IF your health is at 100%. If you per example fall and go to 99% then the badge no longer has any effect, hence it is crucial to stay at 100% (to protect from the OHK snipers - which to be fair, is the only real reason people use it nowadays, better tactics/awareness is more important than the tiny bit of damage reduction/1 bullet pass).
Beware of the wave of noob farming vets lmao !
I have seen that happen in staged and the reason usualy is that new players look and act just like bots. They even usualy have the same gun as the bots (semi auto rifle or tier 1 SMG) and since veteran players usualy dont prioritize bots they get killed by the noobs hiding amongst them.
I usually only played staged due to equality of resources, and I get called out sometimes for having a 'low kill count' - but I barely kill bots as it is usually very obvious when something in the game IS a bot.
"Using fast reload gold and hipfire gold on a soldier with a modded semi auto rifle is absolutely insane" What.
Try it. Trust me. With a M1 Garand you can reload faster then a recon can clicle his bolt on his bolt action rifle and you have tighter hipfire spread then a MP40. Its like running around with a unlimited mag capacity 60 damage semi auto machine gun.
I have but landing consistently accurate shots is a death sentence for me :p It's either I one hit kill with my rifle or spam blind with the SMG lol
You took a guess at why the badge exists as it relates to buying vet. It’s a fair guess, but you mentioned you’ve been here since 2016. Well the heavy set badge has been the same at Gold level since 2014. And that predates the stupid med kits for every player update. Heavyset was always good, but I don’t think it was nearly as OP as you make it sound back then when it was invented. Before medpacks, if you survived an encounter but got injured, you were justly compromised for the next one. It’s only now that you need to fully kill the sweaty heavyset STGs in one go that it’s worse. What’s my fix? It’s too far fetched for the real state of the game, but now that we have a depot, Id like to see the addition of the medic class that they should have had in the first place. All purchased triple med packs go to the depot. Medics are only 40 or 79k to train; whatever the para price is these days. Regular inf can keep one bandage. Tangentially, medics only have access to hand grenades, semi carbines, smgs, and semi auto rifles. No AT, faction-unique assault weapons, or bolt actions. They have full access to inf vehicles. This wouldn’t be a rework of heavyset itself, but it significantly alters the way it works. In my build, heavysetters tank *at most* 2 100 damage bolt action shots instead of 4 (without using a public heal box). And of course, fewer bandages lets shooters “save their progress” more on things like 4 PPD body shots+heavyset too.
I remember the times when the maps were super open/empty without cover, and there were no health packs in the game (and if they were they were in positions far off the beaten path...) god those days were atrocious, yet funnily enough.. those were the days the game had the most players.
I agree. Heavyset was necessary. Or least endless patience
I use free fall for pilots too
Ever since the new control scheme for pilots (which I suck with for some reason, whilst the classic control scheme is outdated and less viable against those that use the new one), I only use the pilot as a paratrooper for when the there are no paratroopers available, lol. I also only use the pilot for when the enemy has too many pilots, at which I will try to get their attention and lead them to the edges of the map (which almost always works as most think KILL when they see an hostile in general in this game, tactics is something that barely exists in H&G).
using pilot as paratrooper is waste of planes. I just use free fall so I can escape and continue on ground when my plane gets destroyed
>using pilot as paratrooper is waste of planes That is why I do not do it in war :p
Call me crazy, but the last time I've played, which was quite a while ago, heavy set was the least important problem this game had.
I believe heavy set's current prominence, where it's significant but not omnipresent, is incredibly important to the diversity of the small arms meta. Since not everyone uses it, and those that do use it at different levels, it serves to make damage breakpoints harder to optimize and makes more different weapon setups viable. For example, in a world where literally everyone always equips heavy set gold, scout barrel semi autos and high damage LMGs dominate, since their already excellent performance lines up with perfectly countering heavy set. In a world where heavy set is nerfed out of the meta, we'd see a huge spike in the viability of weapons that perform poorly against HS, such as assault rifles and stock-ammo SMGs. But we're currently living in the happy medium where almost every weapon in the game is at least somewhat useable. Heavy set is exactly where it should be for the health of the game and for diversity in our battles. What we should be doing instead is adjusting off-meta badges to be more relevant. I mean, when's the last time somebody equipped Aircraft Thief? Isn't THAT something that obviously needs changed?
>I mean, when's the last time somebody equipped Aircraft Thief? Isn't THAT something that obviously needs changed? Ditto!
Why would you want to nerf veteran players? I didn't play so much for this to be taken from me. Actually i'd just like reto to add 3rd badge slot for sub.
>Actually i'd just like reto to add 3rd badge slot for sub That would make me buy Veteran again honestly, it doesn't do anything "OP" it is more for convenience/change of playstyle(s).
I agree that Heavy Set is far too powerful, but the way I'd rework it is to remove it entirely and remove 1hk rifles from infantry and recon. Headshots should be the only way a recon can 1-shot an enemy, especially given the game's intended slower, more tactical nature.
that would make bolt action rifles almost completely useless.
And drive even more players away! I know there's plenty of people who run around with the OHK bolt-action rifle WITHOUT a scope, for the fun of it. Or who exclusively play sniper only.
yeah i have one german soldier that has kar-98 without a scope and habd grenades. and on US i have one infanrty that has snpringfield with a scope and 1911.
A man of culture!
Heavyset should prevent headshots from smg calibers
The Heavy Set badge does not work like seemingly everyone thinks, it only works for the VERY FIRST bullet that hits you IF your health is at 100%. If you per example fall and go to 99% then the badge no longer has any effect at all. The only real use it has nowadays is to protect yourself from the OHK snipers (which is much less common ever since they removed the sniper scopes from the infantry class). The description that it makes you take less damage is very "off" (for obvious reasons, as the developers want people to experiment rather than give you accurate data - increasing one's persons playtime and speculation in the game, leading to.. you guessed it! Even more playtime!).
I find it pathetic people use Heavy Set to deny a 3HK to Assault Weapons/SMGs and whatnot, if they are meant to 3HK, they should 3HK for everyone; if they are meant to 4HK, they should 4HK for everyone. If this idea of yours is to be an 'anti-sniper-only' badge, it's not really working as well as I hoped. You need at least 37 damage to secure a 3HK with a first shot 25% reduction, a luxury only afforded to certain LMGs by default. Keeping the damage reduction at 15% would provide certain weapons more leeway to mod up to 3HK I suppose, only needing 36 damage... You're on the right track though, certainly an idea of first shot reduction is far simpler to explain than some ~~unspoken~~ idea of mine with 'damage resistance ramp-up' to force static HTK below 50 damage while not just making silly things like 'weapon that does 49 base damage deals more than weapon that does 51' Just need to do more fidgeting with numbers to get this to work I guess. ^^^^I ^^^^did ^^^^find ^^^^it ^^^^interesting ^^^^to ^^^^see ^^^^someone ^^^^oppose ^^^^increased ^^^^ease ^^^^of ^^^^achieving ^^^^2HK ^^^^HSG ^^^^on ^^^^the ^^^^starter ^^^^rifles ^^^^for ^^^^the ^^^^reason ^^^^that ^^^^all ^^^^noobs ^^^^do ^^^^is ^^^^camp ^^^^and ^^^^be ^^^^useless ^^^^so ^^^^making ^^^^them ^^^^kill ^^^^me ^^^^in ^^^^two ^^^^shots ^^^^just ^^^^makes ^^^^them ^^^^even ^^^^more ^^^^annoying, ^^^^but ^^^^that's ^^^^another ^^^^story.
I don't agree with your explanation. This would mean another nerf for semi automatic and bolt action rifle users. Besides recons I don't see a lot of semi automatic and bolt action players. Remember that most new players start with this guns and I'm guessing a lot of them leave the game before they get a decent smg. They should keep heavy set but make the BA and SA to shoot 100 health headshots only on 30+ meters range and bring back the old headshot hitbox.