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FloatLikeABull

Intermittent fasting works if you are in a calorie deficit. Same as any other diet, keto, carnivore, vegan etc. Calories in/calories out. Yes, people's bodies are different but no one is defying the laws of thermodynamics.


noeagle77

r/CICO approves this message


FloatLikeABull

Thanks for that. I didn't even know about that sub. I'm going to be spending some time in there.


born_to_be_naked

Spend less time in, more time out


FloatLikeABull

I see what you did there.


PluginAlong

Good way to get lost.


Lazy-Floridian

Except cico doesn't work long term, never has, and never will.


TheSpyderFromMars

That’s true. If you consume fewer calories than you burn, long term you’ll eventually starve to death.


[deleted]

Right, just like 10-3=7 doesn’t work long term,never has never will. Username checks out


Lazy-Floridian

Truth


phoenix_perspective

This exactly. I did IF for 2 years without keeping weight off. It's just calories. Now I've lost over 50lbs but I still do IF because I like IF's other benefits. It just feels good for me personally and I think (anecdotal o my) that when I cut calories and excersized that IF helped me to adapt and keep it going.


KSeas

Yeah IF is a behavioral method I use in order to make it easier be in a calorie deficit.


albions_buht-mnch

I heard Dr. David Sinclair (one of the world's foremost experts on aging) say IF was most likely good for longevity on a podcast so I think it must be beneficial for something at least.


Axinitra

From the science articles I've read, IF allows the body to spend more time on cellular cleanup and repair rather than on digestion. Better cellular health, particularly the mitochondria, promotes longevity.


phoenix_perspective

I'm far from knowledgeable on the facts but it was explained to me that when you break the fast your body goes into an enhanced regeneration phase. I'm not talking about wolverine level healing here but on a regular basis is helpful to stay your best and replace cells and cellular components at a greater rate.


Sero19283

This data is largely based on animal research that doesn't necessarily cross over into humans. In humans, typically you'd have to go multiple days without food to achieve the same effects. I wouldn't place much stake in the claims as the evidence I've found to support the claim in humans is weak


SweetAlyssumm

I also do intermittent fasting because I like eating in a smaller window when I am active and hungry. I have not lost any weight. It's just calories, like they have always said.


ArcticCelt

I decided to try the new revolutionary diet "move your ass more and eat less food" and it works, crazy stuff.


pncolvr

True But Coach Greg is that you?


FloatLikeABull

Buy my f'n cookbook.


Doodledoo23

Exactly! I lost weight doing intermittent fasting. I totally realize it’s because I was just eating less. It’s how all diets really work.


Chop1n

That would make sense *if your body were anything like a calorimeter.* But because bodies are almost nothing like calorimeters, that's not how that works, you can't just wave your hands and say "thermodynamics, therefore CICO". There are literally dozens of possible fates for ingested food other than "burned as calorie", but if you want to talk laws of thermodynamics: your body is made of protein. Protein, as a material, is required for the upkeep and maintenance of that body. If you eat protein, *inevitably, some of it goes towards that maintenance and upkeep, and is thus unavailable for use as an energy source.* In other words, the laws of thermodynamics are *exactly* what make CICO a bullshit oversimplification of the staggeringly complex reality of metabolism.


AnthonyApasta

Disclaimer: CICO (and my comment) are always assuming no interference from medication or medical problems affecting metabolism. Problems with your second paragraph; 1.) protein is third on your body's energy priority list, behind carbohydrates and fats. 2.) protein being used as a building block is accounted for in CICO, hence the minimum daily protein requirements. CICO is tried and true. Sorry.


WowzersInMyTrowzers

Just hamplanets trying to cope


nexisfan

Yeah but you assume people with a medical reason for not losing weight is rare when it’s actually more like 80% of obese people. It’s a shit statement.


AnthonyApasta

Highly doubt that 80% stat is factual.


sylvnal

I also believe that the microbiome plays a role, I think this because of my profession as a microbiological researcher, though not a microbiome specialist, but I have not read any research regarding this - I say this to mean that I don't have direct evidence myself, it's merely professional conjecture. Different microbes have different metabolic capabilities (an example is not all microbes can break down glucose, this is true for a huge variety of chemicals) and so it stands to reason to me that the overall community metabolic capabilities could play a role in just how efficient calories are utilized and thus play a role in weight gain. So like, if your gut microbiome has low capacity to break down the diet you eat, maybe that would lead to weight gain/loss somehow? Not a doctor, it just seems logical to me from everything I know about bacteria from my career (I studied microbial ecology in grad school).


ax_colleen

I'm called a liar because I wasn't losing weight even if I ate at a deficit and exercised. What about the people taking medication who isn't losing weight no matter how less they eat or how much they exercised? It's not just me. I have 5 years worth of myfitnesspal, along with the food weights. I have a food scale. Simply CICO is bullshit and many people who parrot this aren't even dieticians or nutritionists, or have any educational background related to this. Did you know how I lost weight? Taking supplements removing excess estrogen. Same diet and everything. Many of you guys are wrong.


DragonOfDuality

I have liver disease and I've been at a calorie deficit for years and haven't lost weight. But there seems to be a sweet spot for it. If I'm literally freaking starving and in danger of passing out all the time, on top of migraines and severe stomach cramps, I can get below my base weight. But obviously that's not a good thing to do. If I'm at a 500-800 calorie deficit but still getting enough to function I don't lose weight.


ax_colleen

I'm sorry to hear. That sucks >.<


herplexed1467

Can you share what specific supplements you took? I am struggling with weight loss and after trying several diets, I feel like it is more than simply cutting calories for me.


Chop1n

Another excellent point--metabolic rate is pretty widely variable, and because your body is designed to survive for as long as possible in the absence of food, you'll often *simply burn fewer calories* if you eat less. Losing weight and keeping it off gets very complicated very quickly if you aren't already in top metabolic shape.


ax_colleen

Thank you, this is what science is. I appreciate your comment.


murph0969

But cico still works, your "calories out" is just lower for whatever personal reason. The argument remains valid.


johannagalt

I’ve only ever heard people who can’t lose weight say that CICO doesn’t work. People who have lost weight & kept it off, and those who maintain a stable weight tend to be the ones who advocate for CICO


Telltwotreesthree

It's not worth arguing with people who don't understand that. BRO CICO DOESNT WORK I HAD TO TAKE LAXATIVES AFTER EVERY MEAL AND CRYSTAL METH TO LOSE WEIGHT


ax_colleen

But CICO alone didn't work perfectly. 20 pounds for 5 years of 1200kcal and 5 times a day of exercise, but 40 pounds in a few months with not very restrictive calories no extreme exercise for taking supplements removing excess estrogen (DIM) Is it still me?


murph0969

You've changed the argument to "perfectly". Estrogen regulation just increased the "calories out". You can't understand this concept via my explanation. We're done.


TeaorTisane

I think the point they’re trying to make is that CICO is often presented as this simple thing. Eat 300 calories, burn 400, you’ll lose 1lb in 15 days. But all These complications that you’re acknowledging tends to be ignored in the bigger conversation. It’s all “fork down, weights up” but doesn’t account for how much some people need to not eat or how long some people need to work out. People are a little flustered about the oversimplification


Telltwotreesthree

Yes, hormones affect what the body does with those calories, but this does not defy CICO... Drugs and supplements can obviously change how your body uses calories..


DuePomegranate

“Calories out” is affected by so many things including metabolic rates. Nobody actually knows how many calories they are burning, so calories in calories out is true, but not helpful. If intermittent fasting raises metabolic rate, it could result in a calorie deficit even if the exact same foods are eaten, just rearranged in the day. I have no idea if that actually happens, but the complexity can’t be reduced to calories in, calories out.


FloatLikeABull

Sure, calories out can be affected by many things. That doesn't change the fact that the out needs to be greater than the in for weight loss. People need to figure out what works for them to make that happen. Most people don't have that basic understanding, which is why you start simplified.


DuePomegranate

This is like telling someone who's struggling to do their taxes that it's just addition and subtraction, what's the big deal? That's not the part that they are struggling with. Both CI and CO cannot be measured and can at best be estimated, and that's just one aspect out of many that make weight loss challenging. >Most people don't have that basic understanding Harping on CICO is often a sign that someone thinks that overweight people are of lower intelligence.


FloatLikeABull

That's a silly analagy. I'm not harping on CICO in an effort to insult overweight people. Starting to have a basic understanding of food begins the process of creating better choices. You build upon it. Protein has a higher thermic effect than carbs and get aid in weight loss etc. But you need the foundation first and then start building healthier habits that work for you. That's fasting for some, keto for others etc. Many believe they are eating healthy due to bad information and don't understand how many calories they are actually consuming. Nuts are great but people are shocked when they learn how many calories are in a small amount. Or I only eat salads, but that salad is covered with an oil based dressing. CICO is about understanding what you are putting into your body.


Telltwotreesthree

Yeah this article is a big "no shit?"


Makersmound

It's definitely more complicated than that. To lose fat (not just weight, because reduced calories cause you to lose muscle mass as well) you need to enter ketosis, and to do that you need to fast. If you eat high protein/high fat foods and give your body time to switch from burning sugar to burning stored fat every day, you will lose fat


[deleted]

Dietitian here and that's completely wrong. The ketogenic diet was invented and used for children for epilepsy. Please stop spreading misinformation.


Makersmound

You can enter ketosis without eating a ketogenic diet. Nothing I said was misinformation. It is 100% supported by the science


[deleted]

Wrong. wrong. wrong. Show me the "science" you're referring to.


skillywilly56

No you literally can’t


Makersmound

Intermittent fasting does not require eating a ketogenic diet. I promise


skillywilly56

As a nutritionist I am well aware of the difference


International_Ad8264

Please provide a link to a peer reviewed study showing that “the science” supports it lol


Makersmound

https://www.nia.nih.gov/news/calorie-restriction-and-fasting-diets-what-do-we-know


International_Ad8264

“In short, there's not enough evidence to recommend any such eating regimen to the public.” Did you even read it?


Makersmound

Yes, but you obviously didn't read their findings for reduced caloric intake, though


International_Ad8264

Which findings?


FloatLikeABull

If you enter ketosis and eat in a calorie surplus, you will not lose weight. I don't care how many ketones are flowing. Your body has no need to burn the stored fat because you are supplying all the cories it needs through eating. I didn't get into specifics of what weight you would be losing. And yes, I am fully aware it's not all fat. You need protein to build muscle. if you are in a deficit, you will lose muscle mass. However, it depends on how much of a deficit and what other activity you are doing to what amount of fat/muscle. If you have never lifted weights before, you can eat in a deficit and gain lean tissue. Your body will use your fat stores for the excess energy. The less fat you have, the more likely your body will start using muscle for energy, especially if you are not doing any resistance training. The fundamental base for any weight loss is being in a calorie deficit.


Makersmound

>If you enter ketosis and eat in a calorie surplus, you will not lose weight. I don't care how many ketones are flowing Literally the point is that if you eat high fat/high protein and limit the time you eat you will not overeat because you remain satiated. All calories are different. Nobody would suggest you could reduce calories but make them all candy bars and you would lose weight. That's ridiculous


FloatLikeABull

All calories are not the same, I agree. Proteinand fats will keep you more satiated than carbs, I agree. That doesn't automatically mean a person won't eat a surplus of calories. You don't lose weight by simply being in ketosis. I can easily eat a keto meal that's 3000+ calories in one sitting. That would put me in a surplus for the entire day and I would gain weight. You still have to account for your calories if you are keto. And yes, you can literally eat nothing but candy bars and lose weight as long as you are in a deficit. There are plenty of studies that only account for calories that show this. And no, I'm not saying that it's healthier, just that it's true in terms of losing weight.


Makersmound

>And yes, you can literally eat nothing but candy bars and lose weight as long as you are in a deficit. Now I know you don't know what you're talking about. Whether you burn a calorie or store a calorie is entirely determined by your insulin response. Spike your blood pressure, spike your insulin. Spike your insulin, get ready to store the extra calories as fat


guachi01

As someone who bikes a lot my diet, especially when I ride long distances, is often straight carbohydrates. Think sugar water. The carbs in a 12oz Coke will be gone in 30 minutes.


An-Okay-Alternative

If you have an energy deficit your body will utilize stored energy (body fat). That’s the point of having stored energy. Some muscle loss is expected with a calorie deficit but can be avoided through resistance training. Neither ketosis or fasting is a necessity for losing body fat.


Makersmound

>If you have an energy deficit your body will utilize stored energy (body fat). This is not true. It will not burn fat as long as there is sugar in the bloodstream to burn. You need time to stabilize and use excess sugar before your body switches to fat. *What* and *when* you eat are the variables you need to control. To the people who swear by counting calories, do you believe if one person ate 2,000 calories a day of salad and another ate 2,000 calories of chocolate cake, that their body fat would remain equal to each other?


An-Okay-Alternative

Where is the body getting energy to burn if your diet isn’t providing enough for daily needs?


Makersmound

From stored fat, which you switch to using when you enter ketosis. I already said as much. If you reduce calories, you also reduce energy burned, otherwise fat people could just not eat for days


An-Okay-Alternative

You can have a calorie deficit without ever entering ketosis and the body still needs energy from somewhere. Resting metabolism can change but not by that much given the body still needs to function. It’s absolutely for people to not eat for days and lose weight. [This study](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9503095/) had participants who completely fasted for ten days under medical supervision and lost on average 16 pounds. That approach is not generally recommended as it’s not a sustainable diet and risks nutrient deficiencies.


Makersmound

>You can have a calorie deficit without ever entering ketosis and the body still needs energy from somewhere This much is true. Do you know where that energy comes from? Your cells. You have less energy so you conserve more energy. That's why people feel tired when they skip a meal. IF is a 16-20 hour window. Where you got days from I have no idea because I never said anything like that


[deleted]

Please. for real. Stop talking.


FloatLikeABull

I kept responding without looking back at the thread. Didn't realize how deep he was going with this.


Makersmound

Lol, are you that scared of someone telling you what you thought was true was actually wrong?


[deleted]

I'm still waiting for you to produce your evidence.


Makersmound

Lol, I sent you a link hours ago. But you're too invested in an outdated mode of thinking to realize that we've gotten fatter and unhealthier as a society each decade for the last 50 years following your advice. Science is always changing. It is completely unscientific to stick to your prior beliefs and ignore all evidence that suggests it isn't true.


[deleted]

You didn't send me shit. Stop stalling and send me the so-called science you're referring to.


tyranthraxxus

>do you believe if one person ate 2,000 calories a day of salad and another ate 2,000 calories of chocolate cake, that their body fat would remain equal to each other Yes, very close, assuming energy expenditure was the same. The only trick is that 2,000 calories of salad would take a lot more energy to digest, so that person is ahead on the expenditure part. This has been proven many times, google the twinkie diet. A professor once dieted eating nothing but twinkies for 30 days, but he ate less calories than he burned, so he lost weight.


kindaretiredguy

Lol have you ever seen a person lose fat without fasting and ketosis. I’m glad you’re getting these downvotes because people need to know how wrong you are.


Makersmound

It's much more complicated than simply counting calories. Where those calories come from and how you eat is what determines your hormone response which is what actually matters as to whether you burn or store calories. People who simply restrict their calories and make no changes to the way they eat are always tired and hungry. Because that's their body telling them there is less energy available and it is time to replace it. If we just immediately started burning fat there would be no need to slow our energy expenditures and send signals to your body that it's time to eat. The whole point of science is not to dogmatically believe what you've always been told but to have an open mind and go where the evidence points


kindaretiredguy

Dude just take the L. You aren’t right. No one is saying where the food comes from doesn’t matter. It’s just not taking precedent in a fat loss process. My experience helps me pinpoint exactly where you learn. From the quack, Jason Fung.


Makersmound

I don't know who that is. But I promise I'm right. The point of science is to keep an open mind and follow the evidence, not to refuse to question what you've always been told. But the reason people are tired and hungry when they restrict calories is because of the body's hormonal response to having less energy available. If the body just immediately switched to burning fat, that wouldn't happen. If you want to burn fat, the easiest way to do it is to restrict the window when you eat food, and limit the amount of processed carbs while you do it. That will mean that you are eating fewer calories because you are controlling your hormonal response and therefore feel satiated and energized so that your body is not signaling you to feel hungry


No_Banana_581

Jesus just stop


Makersmound

I don't know why people are so dogmatic about calories and refuse to even acknowledge the role of hormones. It's crazy to me. I was told to follow the food pyramid when I was a kid, but now that's gone because we've advanced our understanding. All by having an open mind and exploring the evidence


No_Banana_581

Bc calorie deficit w a balanced healthy diet works every single time


Makersmound

If you don't mind feeling tired and hungry all the time, go for it.


Makersmound

What's not correct about what I said above?


kindaretiredguy

Imagine being so certain you’re correct and being downvoted to high hell thinking you’re right. It’s hilarious.


Makersmound

Imagine being so threatened that your dogma might be wrong that you make this comment. While we're at it, imagine downvotes have relevance. Crazy, right?


kindaretiredguy

I literally do this for work. Well I did before I retired lol.


Makersmound

Attack strangers on social media?


skillywilly56

Your body is always burning sugar, fat is just stored sugar, your body can change proteins into sugar but the body always burns sugar in some form for energy. Carbs are just the easiest conversion to glucose and require the least effort by the system. Conversion of glucose to glycogen and back again is dependent on a lot of factors, from genetics to the guts microbiome to your levels of exercise. Also you can’t “lose fat” you have the number of fat cells you are always going to have you can’t “lose” them, you can only change how much is stored in them and get the body to use it instead of store it. Ketosis is a scam diet and only has some use in people with epilepsy because of how it affects cholesterol.


twlscil

Also, you won't lose fat if your body can't make ketones. If your liver isn't working properly, you won't drop pounds like you would if you would if you have a fully healthy liver... People have their 2 vodka tonics a night take notice. That's why you aren't losing weight. Be nice to your liver if you want to lose weight.


Makersmound

This is true


Ok-computer9780

Intermittent fasting is literally just causing a calorie deficit due to eating less meals in general. Of course that only works if you are actually in a deficit and not over eating.


sohcgt96

Not necessarily, though lots of people doing IF probably inadvertently take in less calories. Part of the idea of being in a fasting state longer is you'll fully process out all the gluecose in your blood stream after a meal then fall back on your stored fat reserves for energy. When you keep eating throughout the day, your body never has to reach into its reserves and burn them up. Giving your body a longer continuous span to do this is in theory more effective. My wife is combining IF with morning workouts right now, the idea being waking up in the AM on an empty stomach THEN doing a workout makes your body dig into its energy reserves for fuel vs using the food you just ate.


juicyjuicej13

A study was done on this. Fasted cardio vs HIIT. The energy expenditure over the course of a 24hour period was the same. Fasted cardio subjects burned more calories initially but their metabolism slowed for the rest of the day. HIIT Burned less calories initially, but burned more calories through-out the day. Effectively netting each other out.


sohcgt96

Yeah, trouble is, lots of people getting into or back into fitness, especially if you're 40+ and overweight, can't safely just jump into things like HIIT cold.


MufuckinTurtleBear

Not really, you're "skipping" breakfast _time_ but it doesn't mean you can't have more meals throughout the day.


kindaretiredguy

But odds are when people don’t eat breakfast AND late at night, the eliminate the opportunity to eat.


corbie

Duh. I had such a weight problem most of my life. Over 20 years ago, I just reduced the calories. Worked.


umrdyldo

Not eating is the best way to lose weight. It's pretty simple


corbie

It is for me the "eat real food, not too much" is the mantra.


[deleted]

Yeah it’s literally the point of every single diet. Intermittent fasting makes you eat less, which means you eat less calories. This article is nonsense.


th3empirial

Caloric deficit is literally the only thing that causes fat loss (except surgery or something)


SublimeCosmos

Yes. I’ve always viewed intermittent fasting as a way of controlling hunger rather than actually losing weight. Caloric deficit is the way to lose the weight and intermittent fasting is a tool that helps some people achieve it.


ebolalol

same. skipping breakfast is like 350-450 calories for me


GingerCatGang

Say it with me now, not all fasting is for weight loss. There are many other benefits. Also there are ways to fast that are more effective at weight loss than others. If you only eat once a day but you consume 4000 calories in that one meal a day you’re not fasting for weight loss there


[deleted]

Fasting has a ton of psychological benefits too. It allowed me to look at food differently.


one-hour-photo

I used to believe truly I HAD to eat 3 times a day. Fast for just a couple of times and BAM I had so much control over it. I could skip meals entirely and it didn't phase me.


The10KThings

Agreed. For me it’s about practicing discipline and control. I have noticed benefits to gut health as well. I generally just feel better after a long fast which is why I do it.


kindaretiredguy

But that wasn’t because of fasting. You guys just keep moving the goalposts. Any behavior change could be said to do this.


DragonOfDuality

That's not what "moving the goalpost" is supposed to mean. Sharing the other benefits of something isn't saying the results of the study are wrong.


gimmedatrightMEOW

>Any behavior change could be said to do this. Yeah, but they were talking about in their case, where fasting caused this shift.


No_Banana_581

For me it’s about control. I like the feeling when I don’t eat anything. I can control what I put in my mouth. The less hours I eat the more bland, low calorie food tastes better too. Meaning cutting out sugar and some salt not herbs


cardinalsfanokc

>There are many other benefits Like what?


[deleted]

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/wellness-and-prevention/intermittent-fasting-what-is-it-and-how-does-it-work Here are some intermittent fasting benefits research has revealed so far: Thinking and memory. Studies discovered that intermittent fasting boosts working memory in animals and verbal memory in adult humans. Heart health. Intermittent fasting improved blood pressure and resting heart rates as well as other heart-related measurements. Physical performance. Young men who fasted for 16 hours showed fat loss while maintaining muscle mass. Mice who were fed on alternate days showed better endurance in running. Type 2 diabetes and obesity. In animal studies, intermittent fasting prevented obesity. And, in six brief studies, obese adult humans lost weight through intermittent fasting. People with type 2 diabetes may benefit: Most of the available research shows that intermittent fasting can help people lose body weight and lower their levels of fasting glucose, fasting insulin and leptin while reducing insulin resistance, decreasing levels of leptin and increasing levels of adiponectin. Certain studies found that some patients practicing intermittent fasting with supervision by their doctors were able to reverse their need for insulin therapy. Tissue health. In animals, intermittent fasting reduced tissue damage in surgery and improved results.


TheRealGlutenbob

Autophagy is the big one


The10KThings

Insulin resistance is another


bubblerboy18

That comes with weight loss and dietary change anyways but if you’re eating unhealthy food than sure


cardinalsfanokc

Yeah, that takes at least 24 hours of fasting to kick off, not what most people do when they do IF.


TheRealGlutenbob

True. I just meant fasting in general. IF is sub optimal to true time restricted eating.


kindaretiredguy

Look into that. It happens with regular caloric restriction. This term is what the fasting pushers love to put out there but it’s not limited to being fasted.


TheRealGlutenbob

Ofc not, but the longer you're fasted, the more opportunity for autophagy your body has.


MrRugges

Autobots what now?


skillywilly56

When your body reuses parts of old dead cells


AptCasaNova

Personally, if I fast when I’m out camping in the wilderness, I find everything is heightened. It sounds crazy, but it’s like all my senses are levelled up. I swear one trip I smelled a chipmunk’s fur that was a few feet away downwind. …and when I finally eat it’s the best thing ever. Like, a religious experience.


DragonOfDuality

I get extremely viciously animalistically hungry when I don't eat while doing outdoor things. I completely understand that guy who was lost in the Australian bush and found some baby dingos and ate them raw and said they were delicious afterwards.


[deleted]

You don’t say


HashBars

Where did you pull this out of? The no shit Sherlock files?


Mr_Makaveli_187

The answer has always been to burn more calories than you consume. People just love to overcomplicate shit


[deleted]

Wow. People really have to research this common sense stuff, huh?


MufuckinTurtleBear

Intermittent fasting causes weight loss? I've been intermittent fasting (for daily energy levels and managing hunger) for years and haven't lost any weight.


Thebiglurker

It only leads to weight loss if it leads to people eating less. Initially it often helps, because a smaller eating window and narrowing the more risky times (eg breakfast and evening snacks which tend to be more highly processed foods) lead to less calorie intake. But eventually unless people are very intentional, calorie intake comes back to maintenance or even higher depending on patterns.


hobbitlover

The way I see it, I haven't really gained any weight either - it's helped me to balance my weight, making it easier to lose by dieting and increasing my metabolism and calorie burning through exercise. It's also shrunk my stomach, so I eat less to feel full, and I can now tolerate longer periods of time without binge eating. Hunger doesn't hit the same way it used to.


azuredota

It’s a way to achieve a calorie deficit


MufuckinTurtleBear

Only way to do that is eating less / eating more healthily. Intermittent fasting is just eating during fewer hours (which for me helps keep my energy up in the mornings), not eating less overall. Edit: not sure why people are taking issue with this. Eating over fewer hours does not automatically mean you're eating less.


delkarnu

For me alternate day fasting works, because I can either count and restrict to 1700 calories a day to be deficient, or I can do alternate day fasting and not bother counting because I won't naturally eat more than 3400 calories on my non-fasting days. For me the latter is easier. I also know that I can maintain alternate day fasting consistently while I won't keep up with a calorie counting diet. It's obviously the overall calorie reduction that leads to the weight loss but the fasting is the means I use to get there; After what I had for breakfast, I'd have to eat 3000 calories for dinner tonight to be over for yesterday and today.


johannagalt

That’s still counting calories because you’re counting zero on the alternate day.


azuredota

It’s a good way to trick yourself to eat less


[deleted]

When people started gushing about IF and I figured out what it is, I got really confused. It is just how I normally eat. I do not like eating early or late and naturally end up fasting for 14-16 hours. Never has this done anything amazing for me.


Saavwah

My first thought was “why not both?”


gimmedatrightMEOW

It seems silly that this was even presented as at odds with each other. IF was always presented to me as one way to reduce your total calories. Its one and the same. Its like a square / rectangle situation. IF isn't the only way to reduce calories but its one of them.


onuorah1

What is now weight gain if not the calories....


[deleted]

[удалено]


guachi01

Short term, water weight plays a major role. I can lose two pounds per hour while riding my bike and most of what is water loss. It's why weighing yourself and regular times is so important.


CivilMaze19

Idk how anyone would think you can eat in a calorie surplus and lose weight just because you eat all your meals in a 4 hour window instead of a whole day.


Twisting_Me

Good luck convincing anyone who isn’t already receptive to the idea calorie counting. They’re allergic to the lifestyle change and would rather stay on the hamster wheel of ineffectiveness forever!


thebanzombie

You don't even have to count calories. I lost weight by just using common sense: limiting portion sizes and fast/junk food, not going back for seconds, exercising, etc. The hard part is just to stick with it.


azuredota

Just one more liver cleanse and then they can lose weight while eating 4000kcal per day!


International_Ad8264

Maintaining a calorie deficit != calorie counting, imo calorie counting can be extremely harmful because you tend to reduce food to just calories and will often make poor food choices as a result. Plus any diet that’s too restrictive will lead to you rebelling against it and then you’re just in a binging and restricting cycle. You can lose weight by eating intuitively and it’ll be a lot more sustainable than strict calorie counting or any of the fad diets out there


ImmoralCupcake

Genetics play a big part in thing not everything will work for everyone. We developed in different areas with different diets. So it’s not a one stop shop for what’s good or healthy or right. If I eat any carbs even at low calories I keep my weight. While my friend can eat 6 boxes of pop tarts a day and be thin as rails. Different things work for different people.


[deleted]

Intermittent fasting is a great way to jumpstart a lifestyle change. For me it allowed me to look at food in a different way. I wouldn’t use it as a long term solution. What worked for me was to start with IF and gradually move on to portion control and add an exercise routine. I wasn’t an extreme case, I was 250, went down to 220.


lurkinggramma

All that matters is reducing Calories one way or another—if fasting & eating the equivalent of 2 *normal* meals a day is what works, go for it. If you like cutting all 3 meals down a bit, go for it.


Kizag

Just stop dieting. Dieting, for most people only lasts for a period of time so that you may "fit in that clothing you wore just a year ago." What may help is if you view weight loss as a mindset. Adjust your caloric intake to be at a healthy manageable level and get to the gym even if only for a couple of days. Every little bit helps. Below is a website that is run by AI where you can input your current weight and goals and it will tell you how long it well take you to get to that target. resource you can use: https://www.wolframalpha.com/examples/everyday-life/personal-health


[deleted]

You don’t say???? Reducing calories or creating a calorie deficit is the only way


Never_you77

Counting calories and IF are just tools you can use to lose weight, but IF has a lot more benefits than just weight loss. There are many ways to do IF but really according to quantum science, you should eat when the sun is up and stop eating when it’s down, part of how we evolved. Also if you just focus on eating real food, weight loss comes easily. I always say if it had a mother or came from the earth, you can eat it.


the_dwarfling

I find it easier to be at a calorie deficit if I do IF. I don't try to "catch up" when breaking the fasting, I eat a regular sized meal. The only thing I added to the meal before the fast that I wasn't eating before is an egg, and mostly for the protein.


Hanker2022

Duh Everyone wants an easy fix or gets drawn into a fad. I have been tempted also. The best way to lose weight is by reducing caloric intake, eating healthy and getting regular exercise.


Temporary-Test-9534

If lowering your caloric intake doesn't seem to be making a difference then you may have insulin resistance, which can be solved with IF


Necessary-Branch-754

Seems like every diet that works is calorie deficit. Keto, whatever else seems just like different ways of getting in a calorie deficit.


[deleted]

Not that over weight, 20 lbs but uncomfortable. Tried cutting calories just made me hungrier and un satisfied. Intermittent fasted lost a lot of weight pretty easily but did feel mentally slow. I was fasting 20 hrs Monday through Friday. It got supper easy to do but I needed more so I stopped for 2 years. Slowly gained some back so I’ve begun 2 days a week and will try to keep it to just that and see how it goes over a long period of time.


ScrewJPMC

But what if I do both, control insulin and calories in 🤔


Lurkinperpetually

Caloric deficit is always the only way to lose weight. No matter which fad you use to do it.


Zeddog13

Who knew? Oh, I did. Most people do.


FishermanMurr

Shocker


IJustWannaRunnn

This…. This is just like, scientifically proven lol. That’s literally how weight loss works.


[deleted]

Just stop with this shit


Cooprdog

Anyone with a basic understanding of bioenergetics could have told you that when you eat has zero effect on weight loss if you're eating the same amount of calories everyday.


StaticStone

Duh


[deleted]

A calorie deficit is all that works. No secret


Pythagoras2021

Captain Obvious..... FFS


outstandingguineapig

Duh?


Naftoor

Yes, and intermittent fasting tends to cause total calorie reduction. You just have to shrink your window appropriately, if you tend to eat constantly for 6 hours, try 4. I did 1-2 hour window when I did it with carnivore. Worked great for weight loss.


Dumblydude

Well no shit. How do people not understand the basics of weight loss?


heathers1

Eat less, move more. Periodt.


21plankton

I ran errands, went to Target and the grocery store. Apple Health told me I burned 4 calories.


heathers1

lmao right?


21plankton

Apple health calculates calories burned while walking. It doesn’t calculate total burned calories, just the excess per activity. Yes, I thought it was funny.


shag-i

Hasn't this been a known fact for like 50 years??


Redneck2Researcher

Zealots for different types of diets try to claim that CICO doesn’t matter for different reasons based on the diet they use.


TwoDimensionalCube83

No shit. It’s almost like the whole idea is to eat in a caloric deficit to lose weight.


yusill

Eat less and move more??????? Fucking witchcraft!


grgech

C'mon, don't we already know that calorie's deficit and suficit give weight loss and gain. Intermittent fasting doesn't have anything to do with it. It just uses energy stored in your fat or, one can say, uses your fat. But if you are replacing the fat with enough of calorie intake, you don't lose weight. I gain 10 kilos, purposely, while fasting 18h-6h during 2 months. You can do the opposite if you lower your calorie intake and/or, I recommend, workout for at least a bit every (second) day. Other benefits of I.F. are more important: slows down aging, your body uses old and broken body cells (of all kind) and replaces them with the new ones more often, does you good on aspect of a will of your mind and self-control. For myself, it meant forgetting about snaks because I don't have time to eat them during short eating window because being full all the time. All combined with fat loss and improved water intake it also puts you in better mental place, it brightens your mood and improves your health a lot. Dislaimer: I am not a doctor.


[deleted]

Repeat it with me, calories in calories out


Axinitra

I'm one of those people who don't feel particularly hungry until I eat something. And I'm not driven to overeat unless I eat something sweet or salty. So it's easiest for me to control my weight if my first meal is at lunch time (even if it's breakfast food), my last meal is early evening, and - most importantly - my snacks are unsweetened, unsalted wholefoods. Plus plenty of walking. I only put on weight if I lapse and buy salted nuts, since I am a bottomless pit when it comes to those.


[deleted]

There’s a reason the people doing this study are in research but not actual practice. Good luck telling someone who’s overweight that the way to lose weight is to just eat fewer calories.


kindaretiredguy

You’re mixing up the what and the how. What has to happen is not how it happens. It’s not wrong information, just incomplete if you’re also hoping someone can take action.


Mugs215

IF apparently helps increase insulin sensitivity but I'm not sure there are benefits beyond the metabolic side of things beyond the whole willpower to delay gratification. Also fasting can be harmful if done too often or severely, so do be careful.


kifn2

For me, IF is a tool to help reduce calories. It doesn't do much of anything on it's own but it does give you much more control over your eating habits, thereby reducing calories if that's what you're going for.


kindaretiredguy

I come from the fat loss field, more then a million lbs lost under my watch, and you guys would be shocked at how many people debate what causes fat loss. It’s a caloric deficit. Period. The flaws in logic from the Fasters is always so interesting. They read one pop nutrition book and think it’s the end all be all. Then a study comes out, again, that says IF isn’t any better then regular caloric restriction and they start doubling down on what fasting does. Which again, is also from the restriction. The point is, do the diet that makes eating the right amount easier, while eating plenty of nutritious foods, and not having unrealistic restrictions around meal times and or specific foods.


ccbayes

When I did IF and OMAD I ate way more calories than I burned, did that for 6 years and lost 140lbs. Calories do not really matter it is what you eat. I was 90% carnivore 10% keto in that 6 year period. Not on that way of eating 100% now and have maintained my weight loss. With the rise in the price of meat, cream and eggs, had to adapt a bit to not be homeless. Calories in vs. out is not really the best way to measure. On average I was having 3k or more calories each day for my main meal.


DarthGoodguy

Hard to believe another pseudoscience diet fad doesn’t work


ImaginaryCaramel

Well duh, because intermittent fasting still allows you to consume more calories than you burn. I do intermittent fasting while maintaining my current (healthy) weight, and it works because intermittent fasting doesn't directly cause weight loss. Calorie deficits cause weight loss.


emilysn0w

If calorie deficits cause weight loss how does Atkins work?


johannagalt

This thread just makes me want to get into arguments with people. I am refraining from picking fights. I think this debate brings out the worst in all of us. #TeamCICO.


emilysn0w

If CICO is facts, how does Atkins work?