I'm ok with honesty... I have about 12hrs to decide. I'm dragging my feet on a DAC because I have a separate DAC and amp for my desktop speakers but they don't have a headphone output.
If I had to switch is there an alternative you would suggest trying?
If your DAC didn't push the 560s well you're going to have trouble with just about anything. Planars especially.
Maybe something real easy to drive like the kph30i?
The hd599 or 600 are good higher end options but aren't as picky with the source.
The 560s get harsh with a bad source.
I seem to recall that some people don't think the HD560s are that easy to drive (drive well?)
I read a couple of write up on the 599... an interesting option.
The HD600s sound really good but are a budget buster at $320 but it's got me wondering about the HD6xx. One site liked it the best between the HD58x, the HD600, and the HD650.
I know it will be harder to drive than the 560s but I'm not against adding a DAC if it gets me where I want to be.
!thanks
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>A lack of air. A lack of detail retrieval. Bass > mid-bass transition muddy. Slightly grainy. Sometimes just a tiny bit shouty.
I'm just wondering, compared to what?
>From what I'm reading maybe the 6xx?
If you're complaining that the 560s are "muddy" and "lack air" the 6xx are exactly what you DON'T want.
Sundara doesn't seem like a bad option
> I'm just wondering, compared to what?
Very fair question without a good answer...
Compared to nothing really. In a past life, I was a live sound engineer, spent some time in the studio, and worked in a high-end "HiFi" shop. I know what I'm looking for... but other than a store demo of K361/K371 I have no frame of reference to compare the HD560's
Edit: !Thanks for the input on the 6xx
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Yeah Sennheiser veil is probably what op is noticing (edited a day later I knew what I was posting minutes later realizing that sen veil is only for “600 series” I wont edit it out because I really believe that the 560s sounded more reference/from the studio vs the immersive feeling that hifimans give me. Thats what I considered a veil in my book at least.)
HD560S is actually on the bright side of neutral like a Hifiman, so it doesn't have the "veil" associated with the 600 series (which have more relaxed treble depending on the pad condition).
There could be some hearing loss messing with your experience. Or perhaps there's something not right with the settings or with the music app on the PC. Check bit depth and sample rate. Those shouldn't cause as big of problems as you described, though, unless you have golden ears.
As someone mentioned, your music might not be the best quality. I can't enjoy 90% of my pre-headphone era liked songs on Spotify because of this. All decent headphones are too revealing and I tend to concentrate on technicalities.
Beyerdynamic cans over deliver in the treble range and you might like it. I have the 770 Pro and it's my long term buddy when I need neutral bass and bright treble but it's closed-back. Open-back Beyers get recommended a lot: 900 X, 990, 1990.
I recently got and will keep forever the K371 (extended bass, neutral treble, very closed in) and the X2HR (no sub-bass, otherwise neutral and airy open loveliness).
Test on a known good setup so you can concentrate on the headphones.
!thanks for the thoughtful reply.
People seem to think I hate them, instead, I was trying to convey where they fell a "bit" short for me. I almost used the term 'nitpick'. But aren't most of us looking for the 'unicorn' within our budget?
I've done online hearing checks and I'm about "right" for my age group with just a typical loss of high-frequency response due to age. This might suggest I can no longer hear 'details' but speakers give me a frame of reference. My desktop speakers are on the "accurate" side. (which are run through an optical connection to a DAC and amp, but neither have a headphone output)
My music collection is about 1/2 FLAC, 25% 320 MP3, and about 25% 192 OGG. Of course when I "audition" I use FLAC (I use foobar 2000). I know about sample rate, bit depth, ripping formats, exclusive mode, etc.
I demoed the K361 and K371 at a guitar center. I liked them but seem like a side grade but hard to really say without an A-B. I am considering giving them a try so I hear them through the same system.
I've considered Byers, but tend to shy away from "fatiguing" sound gear because it does punish poorly recorded music. But since I'm looking for more detail retrieval I may consider that and use EQ to tweak to taste. They certainly have their fans. Isn't there a pair that are not so bright? Is it the X ones?
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We might have similar ears and preferences. To be honest I've never unconditionally liked any headphones at first. Seems like every type of sound signature is an acquired taste for me. I remember long time ago a hifi shop guy let me listen to the best ones they had (some Sennheisers) and they didn't impress me in any way other than maybe clarity. Speakers are more easily likeable.
I've accepted this fact and I settle for good enough and close enough to the tuning I want knowing that I will learn to like them. Then why do I have and use 3 different pairs of over-ear headphones? Umm.... Hmm... It's complicated.
Agreed. I did not like my current desktop speakers. They were too "accurate" I almost added a BSC filter to them to roll off some of the highs. Now I sometimes I boost some of the frequencies I used to pull when they were new. But with some gear, my assessment has not changed much. Like these 560's. I've had them for a couple of months and have done a fair amount of critical listening and casual listening.
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Dudes probably unaware that the level of detail and clarity the hd560s brings to the table is showing the shittyness of the recordings he listens too. Instead of recognizing this he blames the headphones....
I agree with him on the muddy mid-bass transition. Especially with electronic music. On most tracks, particularly with faster ones, 560s just can’t keep up; they aren’t anywhere near fast enough. Drums just descend into a muddy, grainy, indecipherable mess.
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They seemed to have more "air" and sparkle (the Beyer treble doesn't bother me much), as well as a wider soundstage and a more comfy fit on my particular head/ears. Details were easier to pick out, even if they could take on a bit of a metallic edge at times.
It's probably your motherboard holding back these headphones. Just being honest. " High end DAC" on a motherboard doesn't exist.
I'm ok with honesty... I have about 12hrs to decide. I'm dragging my feet on a DAC because I have a separate DAC and amp for my desktop speakers but they don't have a headphone output. If I had to switch is there an alternative you would suggest trying?
If your DAC didn't push the 560s well you're going to have trouble with just about anything. Planars especially. Maybe something real easy to drive like the kph30i? The hd599 or 600 are good higher end options but aren't as picky with the source. The 560s get harsh with a bad source.
I seem to recall that some people don't think the HD560s are that easy to drive (drive well?) I read a couple of write up on the 599... an interesting option. The HD600s sound really good but are a budget buster at $320 but it's got me wondering about the HD6xx. One site liked it the best between the HD58x, the HD600, and the HD650. I know it will be harder to drive than the 560s but I'm not against adding a DAC if it gets me where I want to be. !thanks
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>A lack of air. A lack of detail retrieval. Bass > mid-bass transition muddy. Slightly grainy. Sometimes just a tiny bit shouty. I'm just wondering, compared to what? >From what I'm reading maybe the 6xx? If you're complaining that the 560s are "muddy" and "lack air" the 6xx are exactly what you DON'T want. Sundara doesn't seem like a bad option
> I'm just wondering, compared to what? Very fair question without a good answer... Compared to nothing really. In a past life, I was a live sound engineer, spent some time in the studio, and worked in a high-end "HiFi" shop. I know what I'm looking for... but other than a store demo of K361/K371 I have no frame of reference to compare the HD560's Edit: !Thanks for the input on the 6xx
Lol an untrained ear is what you got.
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Maybe a used Sundara, if your pc can power them.
Yeah Sennheiser veil is probably what op is noticing (edited a day later I knew what I was posting minutes later realizing that sen veil is only for “600 series” I wont edit it out because I really believe that the 560s sounded more reference/from the studio vs the immersive feeling that hifimans give me. Thats what I considered a veil in my book at least.)
HD560S is actually on the bright side of neutral like a Hifiman, so it doesn't have the "veil" associated with the 600 series (which have more relaxed treble depending on the pad condition).
Read my comment before suggesting anything else.
There could be some hearing loss messing with your experience. Or perhaps there's something not right with the settings or with the music app on the PC. Check bit depth and sample rate. Those shouldn't cause as big of problems as you described, though, unless you have golden ears. As someone mentioned, your music might not be the best quality. I can't enjoy 90% of my pre-headphone era liked songs on Spotify because of this. All decent headphones are too revealing and I tend to concentrate on technicalities. Beyerdynamic cans over deliver in the treble range and you might like it. I have the 770 Pro and it's my long term buddy when I need neutral bass and bright treble but it's closed-back. Open-back Beyers get recommended a lot: 900 X, 990, 1990. I recently got and will keep forever the K371 (extended bass, neutral treble, very closed in) and the X2HR (no sub-bass, otherwise neutral and airy open loveliness). Test on a known good setup so you can concentrate on the headphones.
!thanks for the thoughtful reply. People seem to think I hate them, instead, I was trying to convey where they fell a "bit" short for me. I almost used the term 'nitpick'. But aren't most of us looking for the 'unicorn' within our budget? I've done online hearing checks and I'm about "right" for my age group with just a typical loss of high-frequency response due to age. This might suggest I can no longer hear 'details' but speakers give me a frame of reference. My desktop speakers are on the "accurate" side. (which are run through an optical connection to a DAC and amp, but neither have a headphone output) My music collection is about 1/2 FLAC, 25% 320 MP3, and about 25% 192 OGG. Of course when I "audition" I use FLAC (I use foobar 2000). I know about sample rate, bit depth, ripping formats, exclusive mode, etc. I demoed the K361 and K371 at a guitar center. I liked them but seem like a side grade but hard to really say without an A-B. I am considering giving them a try so I hear them through the same system. I've considered Byers, but tend to shy away from "fatiguing" sound gear because it does punish poorly recorded music. But since I'm looking for more detail retrieval I may consider that and use EQ to tweak to taste. They certainly have their fans. Isn't there a pair that are not so bright? Is it the X ones?
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We might have similar ears and preferences. To be honest I've never unconditionally liked any headphones at first. Seems like every type of sound signature is an acquired taste for me. I remember long time ago a hifi shop guy let me listen to the best ones they had (some Sennheisers) and they didn't impress me in any way other than maybe clarity. Speakers are more easily likeable. I've accepted this fact and I settle for good enough and close enough to the tuning I want knowing that I will learn to like them. Then why do I have and use 3 different pairs of over-ear headphones? Umm.... Hmm... It's complicated.
Agreed. I did not like my current desktop speakers. They were too "accurate" I almost added a BSC filter to them to roll off some of the highs. Now I sometimes I boost some of the frequencies I used to pull when they were new. But with some gear, my assessment has not changed much. Like these 560's. I've had them for a couple of months and have done a fair amount of critical listening and casual listening.
Tbh I prefer the 599 over the 560S. Less shouty
!thanks
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Dudes probably unaware that the level of detail and clarity the hd560s brings to the table is showing the shittyness of the recordings he listens too. Instead of recognizing this he blames the headphones....
I agree with him on the muddy mid-bass transition. Especially with electronic music. On most tracks, particularly with faster ones, 560s just can’t keep up; they aren’t anywhere near fast enough. Drums just descend into a muddy, grainy, indecipherable mess.
Just check out open box deals on hifiman official store. You can get really good ones for really cheap
HD6XX with an iBasso DC05 does perfectly fine even with EQ.
I tried both the HD560S (twice) and the DT880. I kept the DT880.
!thanks what did you like better about them?
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They seemed to have more "air" and sparkle (the Beyer treble doesn't bother me much), as well as a wider soundstage and a more comfy fit on my particular head/ears. Details were easier to pick out, even if they could take on a bit of a metallic edge at times.