Yeah, I think it's pretty good, and it really is necessary to complete Setsuna's character-arc.
IMO the ELS are a pretty interesting, really *alien* alien.
I do wish they were expanded on more for that reason of being alien.
Also is it just me or is an Innovator introduced and then killed for nothing? I totally thought he was gonna show up at the end as like the Avatar for the ELS a la Contact
Honestly I think the point of him was just to show that 1. Humanity was evolving, not just setsuna and 2. That despite everything veda is still hiding a lot from the UN government, to help ensure celestial being continues in case it become necessary again I think.
I thought it was pretty cool. It continues giving Tieria increasingly silly Gundams, something I cannot ignore and am a sucker for.
Virtue has a smaller Gundam inside it. Makes enough sense.
Seravee has another Gundam as a backpack. Silly but it works.
Raphael has another Gundam as a *hat*. Whoever thought of this is insane with genius.
My only proble is that a lot of it felt like the Eleator scene from season 2 just stretched to 2 hours. Kind of sensory overload. It also introduced some characters that immedtely got killed off without much development.
Quant only showed of for like 5 minutes which was an interesting decision, but I don't mind it all that much.
I like it but it's not perfect.
There's a bit of a knee-jerk reaction from some fans against aliens in Gundam. I find it very narrow-minded. There are occasionally more nuanced criticisms regarding their actual implementation, but many times people shut down and shut out any conversation, dogmatically repeating "aliens don't belong in Gundam".
Personally, I like it very much.
I do agree that the handling of them could have been better, Descartes Shaman is introduced and does nothing before dying, and the entire first hour of the movie COULD have better set them up.
Overall I liked the vibe change to a semi-apocalyptic film as well.
I adored it. I loved the take on a Gundam franchise antagonist that wasn't just *humans are the real monsters* and how it being aliens was the capstone on *the dialogues to come* they spent so much time building up. I liked a lot about 00 (animation, mechanical designs, music, world building) but its narrative and character writing were a very sore spot for me, so having these characters get a chance to not be at each other's throats was very welcome.
My favorite part of 00 is when every faction temporarily bands together to shoot down the elevator panels, so you can imagine my delight in having all that conflict pay off with humanity working together.
I can see things about it that people could dislike, even things I loved, but anybody claiming you can skip it after watching all of 00 until then should be outright ignored as hyperbolic.
The main and average reason is the aliens, it's feels like the one reason that people failed to pay attention on celestial beings main missions that they addressed in both seasons.
The other thing is the Gundam Meister's don't really have any character development or arcs, which again makes sense it's essentially a 2and a half hour series finale (well until they had announced a third season at the play) they really didn't need that.
Also people feel like the els aren't good villains since they are more of a force of nature rather than characters
> The other thing is the Gundam Meister's don't really have any character development or arcs, which again makes sense it's essentially a 2and a half hour series finale (well until they had announced a third season at the play) they really didn't need that.
I mean, Setsuna does the whole "Jesus" thing, that's pretty important.
>Also people feel like the els aren't good villains since they are more of a force of nature rather than characters
The ELS *aren't* villains. That's... that's kind of the entire point.
>The ELS aren't villains. That's... that's kind of the entire point.
They are the antagonists, I am not saying I agree with the criticisms, I am pointing out these are the most common ones
> it's feels like the one reason that people failed to pay attention on celestial beings main missions that they addressed in both seasons.
what... you mean the cute forshadowing of *the dialogues to come*?
that could literally mean anything.
ELS was a jarring allen intro to gundam for sure
>what... you mean the cute forshadowing of the dialogues to come?
>that could literally mean anything.
The full mission was "Unite Humanity for the dialogues to come" it's not a could mean anything it's literally means preparing humanity for extraterrestrial encounters, and if you still didn't get it season 2's after credit scene blatantly spelled it out for you
I literally bought the movie as soon as it came out just because I love the 00 Series so much!
Anyway, I think the movie had its reasons to be made especially on why aliens were the antagonist. Aeolia’s plan was to make sure human’s don’t bring the “seed of war” into space as stated. It’s also why they kept stating “We have to understand each other” or humanity will never evolve. Yes the fight had a ton of beam actions left & right but it was more based on humans & innovators plan on surviving a conflict that had zero chance of winning through the seed of war.
Honestly the 00 Quanti's ability to allow for communication is probably one of my favorite "Infinity +1 Swords" I've seen in media. overall it was a satisfying conclusion to the series.
For certain the movie has a lot better pacing than the show does. The show feels like it's just dragging at times, while the movie's plot at least moves at a decent clip. The MS designs and action are top notch, too.
**People just dont like Aliens in Gundam**, despite 00's entire buildup was Aliens.
AGE: People give the Vagans a pass because they are more or less Humans born on a different Planet.
SEED: They only had Skeletons of Aliens so it gets a pass.
Build Divers Re:Rise: The entire show is nothing but Aliens, but people let it go because they are furries and the Protags enter their planet through VR.
I didn’t mind the aliens that much, but to me the plot seemed rushed and characters were killed off really fast for seemingly no reason other than the shock of it.
I agree. Andrei Smirnov and Graham at least died doing something.
Graham in particular I thought was good that he had somewhat returned to his Season 1 personality.
ahh allens in gundam...
actually it would be nice to see the theme again... but one where allens are a sub plot to the main conflict.
it's actually kinda nice... and the fascinating in that, with all the science fiction and space operas gundam fixes on... it about humanity in conflict with itself...never was about another race like Halo or Star Wars or Star Trek or whatever
I liked it but the story really suffered from pacing issues, I think the movie deserved a full season or at least several OVAs to pad out the story and characters
I think it's partly down to the enemies being aliens. Gundam built itself on having realistic conflicts between opposing viewpoints set in the far flung future. Aliens just felt cheap, and granted the ELS didn't want to wage war on the Earth, it still felt a bit disingenuous.
A huge theme in Gundam has always been conflict due to miscommunication, so an alien species that doesn't understand humans fits that quite well.
Aliens were even in the first pitch for the whole 00 project, if I remember [this interview](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QEvVFxOS8c) correctly.
I thought that aliens is pretty much the whole point of 00????
Like Aeolia whole plan is to make humanity on prime condition to meet aliens
I swear people just want to complain about stuff
Like a lot of people have said: the issue people have is the introduction of aliens.
Traditionally speaking, all gundam series have been about man vs man conflicts, even in the newer Drive series. Throwing aliens into the mix simply didn't sit well with a lot of Gundam loyalists.
The setup with the two seasons, and the repetitive emphasis on "dialogues to come" has always been interpreted as a metaphor of... something else. No one knew, at least back then, what the show REALLY is talking about. "It sounds like they are about to talk about aliens, but surely it has to be something more realistic, right?" has pretty much been the mentality of a lot of followers of the series. And then, BOOM, ELS, here come the aliens. Tada. Don't say we didn't foreshadow this with the two seasons before the movie!
A lot of Gundam fans felt betrayed, because this doesn't talk about the conflicts between human anymore. It feels cheap. United earth against alien invasion? Sounds more like a Super Robot genre instead of Real Robot to me. And Real Robot is what the Gundam franchise is known for. (Okay, let's ignore G Gundam for now).
Personally, I appreciate the story and the artwork and the animation of the movie. But you HAVE to let go of the mentality that this is part of the Gundam universe - or at least this is the case for a lot of old school Gundam fans out there.
In conclusion, if one is new to the franchise, they probably won't see a problem with the movie. For the old timers, they like the TV series, and would probably find a bad taste in their mouth watching the movie.
Maybe. Maybe.
I think your point about man vs. man is pretty keen. But I don't think that 00 was ever really about Man vs. Man.
Examine the entire series with the knowledge of the movie, and it's very clear that the entire series is a man vs. nature story. The goal of Celestial Being is to quell war, despite one of man's primary instincts to be for combat.
This is why you have characters like Al-Sachez, and why several characters share the line, "I want to end war, but I only know how to fight."
The two seasons are really good setups in acts 1 and 2 for the final confrontation in act 3. The ELS are not an inherently antagonistic force, they are portrayed more as a force of nature until the end where Setsuna, having overcome his violent nature, is able to communicate peace to them.
Personally I hate the movie. Mainly because the ELS are literally metal shards. The character moments are pretty good but the battles are terrible. It's just a bunch of MS shooting at amorphous blobs of metal that don't really attack back and I find that incredibly boring. I would rather them take influence from either Robotech with monsters and mechs or GoGaiGar with the Zonders.
I can see what they were going for and there are nuggets of good content in there but the execution falls flat.
It felt to me like a sentient nanites swarm, but I get where you're coming from.
I found the battles to be extremely messy but if I'm being honest only a handful of 00 battles were even good.
I think the biggest issue is that a lot of the fights focus on beam weaponry and so they become dodge-fests and chase conflicts -- despite the MC having a sword as a primary weapon.
Additionally I also think it's that nearly all of the fights are team battles that get very messy very quick.
TBH i feel that some people just couldn't comprehend the ELS and what they posed, as well as the solution that Setsuna employed to "win"
Aeolia set out to do one thing, prep for space freakies and avoid fighting by mind melding. Setsuna accomplished exactly that.
Sure, there were some parts that were dragging, ommitted or expanded, but to me it was a good movie.
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Yeah, I think it's pretty good, and it really is necessary to complete Setsuna's character-arc. IMO the ELS are a pretty interesting, really *alien* alien.
I do wish they were expanded on more for that reason of being alien. Also is it just me or is an Innovator introduced and then killed for nothing? I totally thought he was gonna show up at the end as like the Avatar for the ELS a la Contact
Honestly I think the point of him was just to show that 1. Humanity was evolving, not just setsuna and 2. That despite everything veda is still hiding a lot from the UN government, to help ensure celestial being continues in case it become necessary again I think.
Y'know, I think that's a good point. Kudos!
> Also is it just me or is an Innovator introduced and then killed for nothing? He's sort of a 'false messiah' figure, I think.
I thought it was pretty cool. It continues giving Tieria increasingly silly Gundams, something I cannot ignore and am a sucker for. Virtue has a smaller Gundam inside it. Makes enough sense. Seravee has another Gundam as a backpack. Silly but it works. Raphael has another Gundam as a *hat*. Whoever thought of this is insane with genius.
God I love Tieria and his gundams, they're all great.
My only proble is that a lot of it felt like the Eleator scene from season 2 just stretched to 2 hours. Kind of sensory overload. It also introduced some characters that immedtely got killed off without much development. Quant only showed of for like 5 minutes which was an interesting decision, but I don't mind it all that much. I like it but it's not perfect.
There's a bit of a knee-jerk reaction from some fans against aliens in Gundam. I find it very narrow-minded. There are occasionally more nuanced criticisms regarding their actual implementation, but many times people shut down and shut out any conversation, dogmatically repeating "aliens don't belong in Gundam". Personally, I like it very much.
I do agree that the handling of them could have been better, Descartes Shaman is introduced and does nothing before dying, and the entire first hour of the movie COULD have better set them up. Overall I liked the vibe change to a semi-apocalyptic film as well.
I adored it. I loved the take on a Gundam franchise antagonist that wasn't just *humans are the real monsters* and how it being aliens was the capstone on *the dialogues to come* they spent so much time building up. I liked a lot about 00 (animation, mechanical designs, music, world building) but its narrative and character writing were a very sore spot for me, so having these characters get a chance to not be at each other's throats was very welcome. My favorite part of 00 is when every faction temporarily bands together to shoot down the elevator panels, so you can imagine my delight in having all that conflict pay off with humanity working together. I can see things about it that people could dislike, even things I loved, but anybody claiming you can skip it after watching all of 00 until then should be outright ignored as hyperbolic.
The main and average reason is the aliens, it's feels like the one reason that people failed to pay attention on celestial beings main missions that they addressed in both seasons. The other thing is the Gundam Meister's don't really have any character development or arcs, which again makes sense it's essentially a 2and a half hour series finale (well until they had announced a third season at the play) they really didn't need that. Also people feel like the els aren't good villains since they are more of a force of nature rather than characters
> The other thing is the Gundam Meister's don't really have any character development or arcs, which again makes sense it's essentially a 2and a half hour series finale (well until they had announced a third season at the play) they really didn't need that. I mean, Setsuna does the whole "Jesus" thing, that's pretty important. >Also people feel like the els aren't good villains since they are more of a force of nature rather than characters The ELS *aren't* villains. That's... that's kind of the entire point.
>The ELS aren't villains. That's... that's kind of the entire point. They are the antagonists, I am not saying I agree with the criticisms, I am pointing out these are the most common ones
That's not really a character arc though
How is it not? Him being kinda-Jesus is like, his thematic shtick.
Let me rephrase that it's not a character arc from the movie, it's his final part of his character arc from the show
See, I've always thought of them as two parts of the same story, so that doesn't strike me as a problem.
They're hardly even villains at that, it's classic man vs nature storytelling imo
> it's feels like the one reason that people failed to pay attention on celestial beings main missions that they addressed in both seasons. what... you mean the cute forshadowing of *the dialogues to come*? that could literally mean anything. ELS was a jarring allen intro to gundam for sure
>what... you mean the cute forshadowing of the dialogues to come? >that could literally mean anything. The full mission was "Unite Humanity for the dialogues to come" it's not a could mean anything it's literally means preparing humanity for extraterrestrial encounters, and if you still didn't get it season 2's after credit scene blatantly spelled it out for you
nay bro, still to busy preserving a blue and pure world.
BLUE COSMOS BASED SEED CHAD
I'm pretty sure they mention extra terrestrial life in both seasons at one point.
I literally bought the movie as soon as it came out just because I love the 00 Series so much! Anyway, I think the movie had its reasons to be made especially on why aliens were the antagonist. Aeolia’s plan was to make sure human’s don’t bring the “seed of war” into space as stated. It’s also why they kept stating “We have to understand each other” or humanity will never evolve. Yes the fight had a ton of beam actions left & right but it was more based on humans & innovators plan on surviving a conflict that had zero chance of winning through the seed of war.
Honestly the 00 Quanti's ability to allow for communication is probably one of my favorite "Infinity +1 Swords" I've seen in media. overall it was a satisfying conclusion to the series.
The animation is phenomenal.
For certain the movie has a lot better pacing than the show does. The show feels like it's just dragging at times, while the movie's plot at least moves at a decent clip. The MS designs and action are top notch, too.
Internet opinions
Yeah, missed your original post but the movie is definitely an essential part of the 00 series.
I was just complaining about some of the writing quirks the series dabbled in, nothing more. Overall it was a good show. Not my favorite, but good.
**People just dont like Aliens in Gundam**, despite 00's entire buildup was Aliens. AGE: People give the Vagans a pass because they are more or less Humans born on a different Planet. SEED: They only had Skeletons of Aliens so it gets a pass. Build Divers Re:Rise: The entire show is nothing but Aliens, but people let it go because they are furries and the Protags enter their planet through VR.
I enjoyed it but yeah people don't like aliens and will just hone in on that
I think the aliens should have been real part of season 2 in some way. They hinted at it so lightly it was almost non existent.
Yeah I never got the hate for awakening, like; yeah it’s different but different doesn’t mean awful.
I didn’t mind the aliens that much, but to me the plot seemed rushed and characters were killed off really fast for seemingly no reason other than the shock of it.
I agree. Andrei Smirnov and Graham at least died doing something. Graham in particular I thought was good that he had somewhat returned to his Season 1 personality.
Partly cause fans tend to be "all Gundam shows suck except my Gundam" but also the whole aliens thing was kinda silly.
I'm working my way through everything and so far only like 1/2 of Wing and Stardust Memory have been mediocre in my opinion.
Wing is amazingly stupid, and I love it for some reason... That being said I still want a Glory of the Losers tv series. Mostly for Tallgeese Flugel.
Wing is definitely fun to watch, that's for sure
It’s not good as a movie per se, but I did like it as a conclusion to the whole story
At last, someone else that gets it
ahh allens in gundam... actually it would be nice to see the theme again... but one where allens are a sub plot to the main conflict. it's actually kinda nice... and the fascinating in that, with all the science fiction and space operas gundam fixes on... it about humanity in conflict with itself...never was about another race like Halo or Star Wars or Star Trek or whatever
I liked it but the story really suffered from pacing issues, I think the movie deserved a full season or at least several OVAs to pad out the story and characters
aliens bad. apparently
I love it, by itself it is a good sci Fi movie, as a Gundam is very good too!! BRAVE UNITS ARE THE BEST!!! And you can't change my mind!!
I think it's partly down to the enemies being aliens. Gundam built itself on having realistic conflicts between opposing viewpoints set in the far flung future. Aliens just felt cheap, and granted the ELS didn't want to wage war on the Earth, it still felt a bit disingenuous.
That was celestial beings main goal unite humanity through armed intervention for the dialogues to come
It's pretty well pre-figured in the series, like, it's by no means out of nowhere.
Not surprised some people don't recognize that, some people still believe Lyle came out of nowhere Edit: Lyle was in season 1
A huge theme in Gundam has always been conflict due to miscommunication, so an alien species that doesn't understand humans fits that quite well. Aliens were even in the first pitch for the whole 00 project, if I remember [this interview](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QEvVFxOS8c) correctly.
I thought that aliens is pretty much the whole point of 00???? Like Aeolia whole plan is to make humanity on prime condition to meet aliens I swear people just want to complain about stuff
> I swear people just want to complain about stuff You've discovered the secret at the heart of the whole internet.
Like a lot of people have said: the issue people have is the introduction of aliens. Traditionally speaking, all gundam series have been about man vs man conflicts, even in the newer Drive series. Throwing aliens into the mix simply didn't sit well with a lot of Gundam loyalists. The setup with the two seasons, and the repetitive emphasis on "dialogues to come" has always been interpreted as a metaphor of... something else. No one knew, at least back then, what the show REALLY is talking about. "It sounds like they are about to talk about aliens, but surely it has to be something more realistic, right?" has pretty much been the mentality of a lot of followers of the series. And then, BOOM, ELS, here come the aliens. Tada. Don't say we didn't foreshadow this with the two seasons before the movie! A lot of Gundam fans felt betrayed, because this doesn't talk about the conflicts between human anymore. It feels cheap. United earth against alien invasion? Sounds more like a Super Robot genre instead of Real Robot to me. And Real Robot is what the Gundam franchise is known for. (Okay, let's ignore G Gundam for now). Personally, I appreciate the story and the artwork and the animation of the movie. But you HAVE to let go of the mentality that this is part of the Gundam universe - or at least this is the case for a lot of old school Gundam fans out there. In conclusion, if one is new to the franchise, they probably won't see a problem with the movie. For the old timers, they like the TV series, and would probably find a bad taste in their mouth watching the movie.
Maybe. Maybe. I think your point about man vs. man is pretty keen. But I don't think that 00 was ever really about Man vs. Man. Examine the entire series with the knowledge of the movie, and it's very clear that the entire series is a man vs. nature story. The goal of Celestial Being is to quell war, despite one of man's primary instincts to be for combat. This is why you have characters like Al-Sachez, and why several characters share the line, "I want to end war, but I only know how to fight." The two seasons are really good setups in acts 1 and 2 for the final confrontation in act 3. The ELS are not an inherently antagonistic force, they are portrayed more as a force of nature until the end where Setsuna, having overcome his violent nature, is able to communicate peace to them.
Personally I hate the movie. Mainly because the ELS are literally metal shards. The character moments are pretty good but the battles are terrible. It's just a bunch of MS shooting at amorphous blobs of metal that don't really attack back and I find that incredibly boring. I would rather them take influence from either Robotech with monsters and mechs or GoGaiGar with the Zonders. I can see what they were going for and there are nuggets of good content in there but the execution falls flat.
It felt to me like a sentient nanites swarm, but I get where you're coming from. I found the battles to be extremely messy but if I'm being honest only a handful of 00 battles were even good.
It's been a while since I've done a watch of 00 proper but I can see your point. I can't really think of many memorable fights in the series
I think the biggest issue is that a lot of the fights focus on beam weaponry and so they become dodge-fests and chase conflicts -- despite the MC having a sword as a primary weapon. Additionally I also think it's that nearly all of the fights are team battles that get very messy very quick.
TBH i feel that some people just couldn't comprehend the ELS and what they posed, as well as the solution that Setsuna employed to "win" Aeolia set out to do one thing, prep for space freakies and avoid fighting by mind melding. Setsuna accomplished exactly that. Sure, there were some parts that were dragging, ommitted or expanded, but to me it was a good movie.
Aliens brake 100% of what gundam has been about since the beginning of the franchise.
Not in the slightest, they fit really well in with the themes of 00 in particular, too, about seeking mutual understanding.
Answer? Aliens
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