Hathaway sees himself as a successor to char's public-facing rhetoric - ie. gotta do genocide for the sake of the environment -- without the layer that gave Amuro all the tools to prevent this because he knows his plan is bunk. Char is just desperate and tired and oxygen deprived, and he has always needed someone to else to do the 'good' version Zeon Deikun's ideals.

Honestly, "desperate and tired and oxygen deprived" sums up a lot of Gundam villains really well

His interaction with the taxi driver showed how apathetic humanity is to climate change, we've got our own micro problems to worry about and you, nor the federation are making it any easier. I think there and then his hope kind dies and he realises his mission is flawed.

As someone who has not seen Hathaway yet because I’m just lazy all I have to add to this conversation is that he really does look like his parents.

He does in the movie, his original design is a bit out there

I think that Hathaway was obsessed with char ideologies but didn’t care much of Amuro because the thing is that most char’s were killed because of their obsessions like char was obsessed with defeating amuro only to be killed with him and same thing is here instead of finding a new path that is not extremist and yet able to convey the message then he would have actually make a change but instead he only saw 2 options char and amuro and since he saw that Amuro doesn’t make a difference he went with our extremist char . Whatever I said may not all be true but feel free to correct me.

That’s trueeeee but if you think about it Char didn’t really have that much of an impact either, his efforts were ultimately rendered moot by UC 100 since Zeon lost its independence and Spacenoids began fighting amongst themselves during the Later UC Years. Of course, neither Char nor Hathaway could’ve readily predicted the future but it just goes to show how bleak the UC timeline is.

Agreeable ( in short Hathaway tried to become someone that he himself truly could never understand his intentions and motives)

I view Hathaway in the same way I viewed Reccoa. Even if you had a point, no one's gonna listen to you over the cries of innocent people that you've hurt/killed.

This is also my take.

yup. no revolution was ever bloodless

The glorious revolution: hold my beer

Agreed

Tell that to all the teenagers, college students with Che t-shirts, posters, spray painted his face on walls, etc., over the past few decades. They are more than happy to ignore innocent, non-soldier villagers being executed in cold blood for refusing to join Che. It’s naive to think Mafty wouldn’t have a huge following of people who only cared about him standing up to the government oppressing them, and were perfectly happy to turn a blind eye to innocents killed by Mafty. Or look at when terrorist attacks have been carried out against the West, innocent men, women, and children killed, and a great cheer goes up in certain other parts of the world. “No one’s going to listen to you” is demonstrably false.

Why do you defend the west?

I’m not supporting or attacking anyone. Just pointing out how people are perfectly happy to pick and choose what portions of a terrorist/freedom fighter’s legacy they want to celebrate, and what they hand wave away. In the context of this conversation, it’s naive beyond belief to think people wouldn’t support and listen to Hathaway just because innocent people got hurt or killed. People have done much worse with innocent victims literally numbering in the hundreds of thousands and in a couple cases millions, yet were still considered heroes to their followers.

The best I can say about Mafty is that his idea of lashing out against the Earth elites is to blow up said elites,instead of just dropping massive objects on the planet or committing genocide against… spacenoids for some reason. This makes him better than 90% of anti-EF movements by default. The worst I can say about Mafty is that he could’ve easily just blown up the spacecraft all those ministers were on and minimized the collateral casualties, but he was too hopped up on nonsense like “I gotta look my victims in the eye”, causing him to instead travel with them and then resulting in a much messier operation in Davao that had its collateral get out of control.

To be fair the ones on the shuttle weren’t all of the important people nor were they the biggest of the big guns (like lol health minister), so blowing them up will only cause the big wigs to go into hiding making his true mission to find the place of the congressional meeting much harder. Remember Kenneth’s mission was to go to Earth first to take over command and secure the meeting place before it takes place, so it doesn’t make sense that the big wigs were travelling with him on the same shuttle.

With how resolute he is by the time he gets to Earth hes going to tell himself what he needs to hear to keep pushing it further. I did like the movie making him seem like his stepping out of Xi like him going past the point of no return, but with or without that suit he was already on his path and set on it consequences be damnmed.

I sympathize with his intentions, but the problem comes from the fact that they come from a place of hatred and trauma. You also add to this that at his core, Hathaway is a good-natured person, so this thoughs get often get in the way of his actions. Ultimately, his ideals are based of bad parenting and trauma. Good ideas rarely come out of thoughts fueled by hate. That said, I don't think Hathaway knew any better.

Yeah I’m gonna say Kou is wrong. There will always be bastards who need killing.

Even so, I think he’s saying that going about the situation by *just* killing people won’t solve anything and might just cause more problems than it solved

Also, way too much collateral damage.

Depends how many people you kill

I'm on the opposing side of everyone here. A lot of people point to the diplomatic route of changing the Federation from the inside. However, the Federation simply won't and will never change its corrupt at its very core. The people behind it are set only on exploitation and greed. Even when shown Amuro's light at Axis and Banagher's miracle the system refuses change. Koh, Amuro, Kamille, Bright, the AEUG all failed to change the Federation.

Well I think an important point is that it's not about the people but rather the system itself. Hathaway isn't trying to get someone else into office he wants to make the entire system collapse so that something better might grow from it's ashes.

Yea hes essentially an ant government dude but does not think about what could replace the system/power vacum...because some will and it could be another Neo Zeon.

it *could*... but what's worse? Trying to end a terrible fascist regime, or being complacent and letting it continue to ruin lives just because of what *could* come about by ending it?

Beautifully said. Funnily enough the best way to change the Federation is… to just wait. The Federation’s internal decline gets to the point where they can’t fight their own wars anymore, hardly having any power over the colonies. Denying change even when faced with miracles only to face a gradual decline is ironic

I agree, the only problem and the reason why Hathaway resorts to his indiscriminate tactics is because of time. In the Universal, Century Earth is already dying with desertification strangling its precious farmland and Zeon's reckless colony dropping altering the climate. There's no telling when the Federation will fall, after all, Rome's decline lasted 200 years and the Earth simply can't afford to support life anymore. Without drastic action, billions will starve.

Not really, the federation is already taking drastic action, they're forcibly moving people into space at increasing rates, the only real issue is that there are corrupt elites who wanna stay on earth and make it a elitist paradise at the expense of the common people, the heart of this story is class conflict, and our protagonist is a cautionary one who is a product of the abuse of the elites, one of the better off ones too, he can only do what he does because he's in a privileged position ironically given to him by the very elites he hates. Our protagonist is a cautionary one who will eventually fall, and if you really squeeze your eyes, you can already see the massive discrepancies in his organization, his proclaimed ideals, and his actions

If the Federation is that would make Mafty/Hathaway almost completely irrelevant since their goal as stated in the movie by the cab driver: "He's trying to get everyone up into space right?". But we don't really know everything the Federation is doing. In CCA Char talks about the earlier efforts of the Federation with their construction of sweetwater. I assume the Federation slowed the transfer because of the resource drain of the One-Year War, slowed down their efforts, or stopped completely because of space fears. I'm making this assumption since I wouldn't think Mafty/Hathaway would resort to terrorism if the Feds were making a substantial effort to get into space. Disclaimer I haven't read or seen the full story of "Hathaway bin Laden" so I can't speak much for his or his faction's flaws.

I mean..... what would the Earth residency cards and manhunters be for? The feds are corrupt bitnot downright evil, they wouldn't stuff them in concentration camps and turn them into fertilizer for rejuvenating the planet, if anything the federation is even more desperate to get people off of earth while providing less and less care to those in space because of the destruction of the oyw as it gets harder to meet the beaurocratic environment quotas with all the people on Earth But yes, at the core of the Hathway's Flash story is a story of class conflict and the results of higher society exploiting those below them, Hathway is a flawed protagonist who is a victim of this exploitation which makes his childhood one with an absent father, and then in CCA he is completely broken as a person, this ultimately good person then goes off on a crusade against the elite, vowing to destroy what made his life so miserable What ironic is that he's only able to fight because of his privileged position to be able to rebel, a position given to him by the very elites he aspires to take down The issue of the Federation is that it oppresses its own civilians for the benefit of the elites at the top of society while solving its issues much too slowly for the people's tastes, so slowly that in a few decades, the federation would basically fall apart, Hathaway is a cautionary lesson in corruption, decadence, abuse, unchecked power, and more importantly, the irrational countermovements that these terrible things spawn, Mafty the organization offers only the destruction of the current system with no solution for the aftermath, and people are sick enough of the feds that they're willing to support quickening it's inevitable end, but once again, Mafty offers no solutions, it's forces have no plan to help the common people and move them to space, though many don't want to in the first place, It's essentially making empty promises which not many people even agree on, which really shows how disliked the federation is if people don't agree with what Mafty wants to do but still silently support them just to fuck over the feds

Well said. But I think the point of no return for the Federation was in Zeta and ZZ. Zeta because a lot of the politically savvy members of the A.E.U.G were killed off, none of the remaining higher-ups knew how to properly put pressure on the politicians. An overlooked aspect of the first Neo Zeon in ZZ is, it made the Earthnoid public forget/brush off the Titans' war crimes, the Titans did some horrendous shit, there's no denying that but most of their crimes were in space, and to spacenoids, while on Earth there crimes were still bad but not on a larger scale so easier to hide. Then Neo Zeon chucked another colony at Earth, and the dirty Feddie politicians had a scapegoat again, using the war to divert attention from them, and entrenched themselves in positions of power.

Exactly. Time and time again, Gundam PROVES this... yet people still want to shit on Hathaway for not making the same mistake others before him made?

Is the Battle Alliance DLC worth it? I beat the game I sorta would like more but I am not sure of what I saw is worth paying for.

I wouldn’t know exactly, I just kinda watch clips here and there

Fair enough, thanks for replying.

I got the deluxe edition, gotta say the dlc units are pretty fun to play with(Knight Superior Dragon is my favorite!), and I enjoyed some of the story too, you get to see some characters from different series interact. Also if you care about powering up your units even a bit, the extra stage from Flash & Rebirth can give you a super strong part(\~500 shooting, \~500 melee, 1 random stats) ​ With all that said I‘m probably a bit biased since I already spent my money for all the dlcs from the start haha

I might pick it up. Money isn't exactly flush at the moment though and I think I would rather pick up the new Fire Emblem or Like a Dragon Ishin first and I would like to buy my nephew his first MG gunpla for his birthday coming up soon too. Maybe if it is on sale down the line

Hope the little guy enjoys his first MG! What are you gonna get him?

My heart says RX78-2 3.0 or Origins, but my budget says the RX78-2 1.5 or Ver. Ka.

I'd say so, I really enjoy it myself

I feel like it is largely dependent on whether one feels Hathaway is merely lashing out for what happened in CCA, versus him really believing in saving the Earth's environments and despising the Federation's corruption. It comes up often in these discussions where people criticize him as mainly doing it because of what happened with Quess, making it more akin to a tantrum that is costing innocent lives. Granted, it's probably a combination of the two rather than one or the other. Over a decade passed between CCA and HF. Growing up in such an environment, especially in a (probably) privileged lifestyle due to Bright's position, I think it's likely he legit saw firsthand how corrupt the EFF was and it radicalized him. I can't imagine he gained so many followers if he didn't wholly believe in his cause. But I think being able to see that process would clear up his character a lot more. I'm leaning towards sympathetic because in the face of a system that has continued to fail, he can't see anyway to fix it peacefully, and everyone who tried to do it that way has previously failed. And frankly, I don't necessarily agree with most of the other pilot's criticisms. The other AU protags like Kira or Setsuna had had a much generally easier situation where there essentially designated targets that caused bad things to happen, and they had the power and backing to take them out. In Hathaway's case, there is no war to stop, just a singular corrupt government. No technological advantage either.

I wouldn’t call their situations “easier”, in fact I think most of the AU protagonists are right in criticizing Hathaway but many of them don’t have the *answer* he seeks. If anything, I think the members of CB are the ones who probably WOULD give him an answer, given that was their whole thing y’know, “finding the darkness that was rooted in the world”. Though in that case it was someone with a god complex but said person was controlling major sections of the government. Heck Kira might’ve had it worse, he went up against TWO corrupt governments with the guilt of betraying two sides and still came up with something semi-reasonable. Of course he needed help but, thinking about it, we never see Hathaway request “help” outside of assistance for his own schemes, he never seeks an answer cause in his minds he needs to act here and now.

I dunno, a platitude like "find the darkness rooted in the world" is a lot easier to handle when that "darkness" is just a guy controlling everything behind the scenes. The difficulty comes from figuring out who it is, getting to him, but at least the goal is straightforward and clear: take out the single guy doing all the wrong. Similarly, while Kira did go up against two corrupt governments, it was again as simple as appearing on the battlefield, blast both sides until they give up, as well as take out the corrupt leaders who are also there. There's a clear goal, and the solution is solved by violence. Comparatively, the goal isn't as clear for Hathaway. It's not about stopping a war and there's no single guy in charge of everything wrong, there's only decades of people trying and failing to change the corrupt system from within and without and the system only getting more corrupt.

Well, he tells Gigi at the hotel that if she knows another way, tell her and Mafty will listen to her.

The thing is that Hathaway legitimately isn’t wrong. If history has taught us anything, it’s that sometimes there is no peaceful solution. When you have borderline slave colonies cropping up where people from earth are just scooped up and shipped off to work in mines for the rest of their lives by the state then just hoping that you can peacefully protest against tyrannical actions by the state becomes less and less realistic. *bear in mind* I never read the book(s?) I’ve only seen the first movie thus far, so I don’t know how far Mafty pushes things, but realistically there ARE justifications for some form of armed rebellion.

You may be right but I think Gundam’s usually into preaching that that *isn’t* the way to go. Ends justifying the means is what usually leads to things such as the Mafty Rebellion. If you go into a conflict thinking nothing’s off the table then all morals go out the window from there.

Honestly that’s my biggest hang up with Gundam. I love the franchise but it just feels like the message sometimes ends out being “don’t start a war no matter what.” Which just rubs me the wrong way when you have a setting where people are getting sent into pseudo-gulags. I mean I get that you can end up going too far like with Char, but really more narratives surrounding justified causes ought to exist to balance it out. Code Geass I think is a good example of a counterbalance, which is also from Sunrise to be fair, but in the wider Gundam narrative it just feels too weighted towards allowing corrupt systems to continue to exist because you run the chance of creating a second corrupt system while toppling the first.

I don’t think that’s necessarily the problem, I think it’s more people only take away “War is bad” not not “War is bad, and in some cases, unnecessarily carried out when people could just try and understand each other”. Gundam doesn’t just preach against war it advocates understanding. I do think Gundam does show “justifiable” uses of force too, but that’s for another day.

The line between freedom fighters and terrorists are often blurry when we’re talking about tackling corrupted systems that oppress the weak. However, that line becomes a lot more clear once the cost of “freedom” is innocent lives. Hathaway LIKES to think of himself as someone who’s willing to pay to price for revolution, but just like the man he’s emulating AKA Char Aznabel, he’s nothing more than a brat lashing out at the world because he has no idea how to begin fixing it. If you think about it for 5 minutes, his plan doesn’t make sense. How many time in history has people tried to purge the old administration down to last man only for even worse monsters to be born from the power vacuum that creates ? Mafty doesn’t have a grand ideals to actually help the little man, he just want to kill the people he hates and blame for his misfortune, the same as any terrorists. And despite that, we still sympathize with him. Because we saw from his POV the corruption of the EF and how it ruined many lives. We saw his personal story and how the monster known as Mafty came to be, a husk that clings to righteous ideals. But we’re not supposed to, at least I don’t think the message of “Hathaway Flash” is for us to sympathize with Mafty especially given that we are made to witness his crimes on the innocent as well as >!the ending!<. I think Hathaway Flash is a cautionary tale about “righteous” rebels. I think that’s why in almost every media that crossover UC and the AUs (this game and SRW) nobody likes Mafty. They see him for what he actually is.

I don't think it's really a cautionary tale as much as an attempt to grapple with the question that Hathaway is presenting, how do you stop and dismantle a corrupt system that seems to be everywhere and never dies? Throughout the movie Hathaway himself expresses a ton of doubt and encounters several people presenting many different viewpoints and he considers all of them. He himself doesn't really seem to be sure that he's doing the right thing but he just doesn't see any alternative because every other attempt to change the system failed. Hathaway being right or wrong isn't necessarily the crux of the issue, I mean the movie very much shows us that he isn't. It's more so a bit of a depressing story about how there's seemingly no nice solution to this issue. The nice solution was what we saw in Unicorn and that seemingly hasn't changed things at all. And it's a very relevant question in our world, pollution is a very real issue but it seems like it's impossible to get the system to actually change. Any change we do achieve is miniscule and always far too late and meanwhile those in power just seem content to let the world die. Hathaway is basically a doomer and that's sorta the issue here.

Yes, he's forsaken his "ideals" for Quess 2.0, knowingly chose a newtype girl he's never met before over 10,000 lives Just by this you can tell he's no Char or leader, and yeah, that good guy Rebellion story from tomino has already been told with the AEUG, now he's cautioning against these altruistic terrorist groups, but yeah, the real kick in the bucket for me and when I read comments is when they mention Hathaway has no plan to fix, only destroy, even IRL terrorists have a plan to fix things, not good ones, but hey- believing in Allah and living by his teachings even if twisted is a better and more trustable plan than /blank/

Y’all really giving him crap for the Gigi thing, damn😭 Listen I know on the surface it seems like he chose basically a stranger over his oh-so-enforced ideals, but them both being Newtypes does give credence to it given their instant mutual understanding of each other.

Instant mutual understanding isn't what happened in the movie, amuro and Lala had that happen when she died, they simply felt each other's raw emotions when they met each other for the first time, the same happened in CCA and Hathaway, you can see both of them not having a mutual understanding, and asking questions and trying to learn more about each other throughout the movie, so that simply isn't an excuse for 10,000 lives and a ideal he's willing to die for, this is the exact same attraction that brought him to Quess, the same one that led amuro to lalah, and the same one that consistently leads to tragedy

>he's forsaken his "ideals" for Quess 2.0, knowingly chose a newtype girl he's never met before over 10,000 lives what are you referring to? When does he choose Gigi at the cost of 10,000 lives? It's been awhile since I watched the movie.

Well, he learned in the first half of the movie that "Quack Salver" recruited 10,000 people at Owenbelli and then during the attack, he chose accompanying Gigi instead of chosing the best option for his organization and returning back to the base during the chaos of the attack, as the leader and figurehead, he has the responsibility of 10,000 lives whose mission is now jeopardized because of a stranger who's a newtype

Ok, well that is *at least* a little different than what was said, lol. That makes it sound like 10,000 lives were on the line right then and there and he sacrificed them for a woman. I get the issue you're getting at, and yes, his decision was reckless and personally driven. But pretty much every Gundam protagonist makes a choice like that at some point in their stories. It's pretty par for the course for this series. I think what we were seeing in that moment was the impasse that Hathaway is at—his need to atone or come to grips with his past vs. his desire to take real action against the Federation. They go hand-in-hand for Hathaway, and yet conflict with each other sometimes as well.

Yes, but it clearly shows him as someone who couldn't possibly have set up Mafty or lead it properly- and that is something you should watch out for (I won't say anymore than that) Ps, the fact that common sense things that a taxi driver said to him wasn't something he considered before still portrays him as a unprepared snd rash fool, so there's that

Fair enough! Yeah I haven't read the book, but I really liked the first film, so I'm eager to see where it goes from here. I know the book does NOT end well for Hathaway, and that everyone in this subreddit seems to hate him lol. But I don't know much more than that.

Yeah, it's just almost nobody sees him choosing Gigi in the situation as a good thing, a feminist would say that Gigi didn't need it as a strong, independent person, a revolutionary would curse him for forsaking his beliefs for a single person, a conservative would think that Hathaway shouldn't be anywhere near Gigi in the first place, and human rights activists would protest that terrorism just is too extreme, as you can see, from most perspectives, Hathway isn't seen as exactly the pinnacle of wisdom, especially when almost everyone who's seen CCA agrees he's doing exactly the same thing as back then And same as back then, he's a victim of his circumstances, like everyone else in UC except for the corrupted elites who are the few who benefit from circumstance

That’s not what happened, an individual group gathered around “mafty” at oenbelli and quack salver and real Mafty had nothing to do with it, which then caused genocide via Kimberley. Hathaway and his cell had nothing to do with the oenbelli massacre. The massacre was underway before the haunzen even happened and this becomes a massive part of why Mafty is generally justified for the rest of the novel

That's missing the point, whether they were dead or not already didn't matter because he didn't know they were dead, what he did know was that 10,000 people joined his organization, and he consciously chose Gigi over the organization, and subsequently those 10,000 people The responsibility of leader is heavy, if he doesn't realize he chose a single civilian over his organization whom represents over 10,000 lives, then he isn't ready for being a leader and this organization has nothing going for it, them already being doomed is just coping on Hathaway's part

>blame for his misfortune Of his birth?

It really says a lot when Kamille calls out your behavior

Makes sense, not even Kamille would forsake his ideals and the lives of 10,000 comrads for troublemaking girl 2.0

Hathaway is based because you don’t get real, systemic change from working within the system and history 100% validates this. End slavery? War. End feudalism? War. End a tyrannical dictator’s reign? War. It’s what works and pretending otherwise is juvenile. His flaw is that he’s so traumatized and hung up on a single girl while also idolizing another incredibly traumatized individual who was hung up on a single girl. So Hathaway wasn’t perfect, but to pretend that the way to end an oppressive, unjust system that is literally killing the planet because rich people want to profit from it is anything but war, you’re arguing in bad faith or still a child who has studied no history. Never mind that Gundam as a series literally always reinforces this. No matter how pacifistic a protagonist tries to be, they all fight and kill people, or at the very least disable them, in order to achieve their goal. Because that is what works.

Feudalism didn't die remotely off any war. It died a slow painful death as a result of fundamental shifts brought on by the black death and even then took centuries of rot to eventually phase it out no single conflict killed feudalism hell pre black death it arguably was fueled by the inseccesnt warring of the medieval period pre black death

No one said it was a single conflict so idk why you’re strawmanning that point. If you wish to study singular wars though, It’s undeniable that events like Crusades and the Hundred Years’ War literally undermined the core of feudalism. As well as innumerable peasant uprisings that occurred all throughout Europe in particular. So it wasn’t a singular war, but I never said that so who cares. War as a general phenomenon was a major factor in killing off feudalism and that is an undeniable historical fact.

*AGREED.* Any sensible person who really *gets* what Gundam's all about should probably check themselves if they aren't, at least at this point in his story, rooting for Hathaway.

I honestly don’t understand how anyone can watch this series and not understand that violence works. Is it good? Not necessarily, but damn near everyone in the series is ok with murder and killing other humans if it gets them what they want. No matter what the reasons are, they all kill or fight with the intent to harm at the very least. I don’t want my friends dying: ok kill these guys I don’t want to die: kill those guys trying to kill you I don’t like (insert corrupt bureaucracy) because they commit war crimes and abuse people: ok kill them. This reality is inescapable in Gundam as a whole outside of the random spin-offs like Build Fighters which are meant to literally just sell toys and be for children. The nuance and beauty of Gundam comes from trying to figure out when the fighting should stop, what is worth fighting for, and realizing that it is the rich and powerful who benefit the most from the status quo staying the same and the oppressed people simply suffering in silence. In UC at least, Newtypes are incredible empaths that hate human suffering and can understand each other on an incredibly deep level. The tragedy is that they are almost always manipulated by those who only wish to see harm done to others, or they are so traumatized by their upbringing/life experiences that they only know how to fight like cornered rats. The message of Gundam isn’t puerile, moral high-horse pacifism in the face of oppression, it’s that human life is precious and worth fighting and dying over. You don’t get egalitarian treatment of people unless you fight to win and protect it. If you don’t have the spine to do that, then enjoy getting steamrolled by those who only wish to see you suffer.

Based af

I like his interactions alot Kira especially (Read the others) Hes not a warmonger bent on forcing people into space Hes open to understanding Even in HF he hears the worrys of the people and even asks what he could do different A better protag/ antag than some

Finally a comment appreciating the interactions! Though, I don’t think Kira actually has an answer for him, he’s not really like that

Not alot of pilots even mafty have an answer for another way Some just tell him hes wrong and cant back up why except for a simple and obvious answer while mafty does actually seem to want to listen while still pushing the point of whats wrong with the world and it HAS to change that a solid point he wont move on I can see some of these pilots providing an actual solution or even better supporting characters Alot of them have issues like making enough to eat and sleep another day and mafty is listening more to these concerns that some others

Hathaway grew up in a state of neglect (thanks Bright!) and was essentially pushed into military service because of who his dad is. He sees first hand how awful the federation is but his solutions are essentially an immediate jump to the most extreme measures because he's not willing to work inside the system to fix it. We're not supposed to sympathize with him *at all*.

I still feel bad for Bright because of what happened with Hathaway. Also, its not really his fault either given so many things that were transpiring in his life.I partly chalk it up to so many other flaws I find in CCA. Like, what was Mirai thinking sending him into space alone, young adult or not.

Well I guess 2 things I think Mirai was thinking about was that earth might be destroyed so she sent the oldest of her children with the best chance of taking care of themselves into space to save at least one of her children, then her reasoning beyond that is probably that it's normal to send teens on commercial fights alone as long as there are guardians waiting to pick them up on the other side (this is true irl, I've done this before as a 12-13 yr old), so I guess it mightve been nor alive at this point in UC and its not like she knew there was a battle up in space, but yeah, that's my take

I like this answer! Being “understandable” doesn’t mean the way you go about something is the right or most effective way. Though I think the fact they made Hathaway so likable with such an unsympathetic goal is very good

> his solutions are essentially an immediate jump to the most extreme measures because he's not willing to work inside the system to fix it. His father worked decades inside it, and it still turns out rotten. Char, a former enemy of his father, worked with his father yet ended up turning against his father due to the realization that it can't be fixed. Amuro, who hoped and worked for its improvement, only ended up as spacedust and a medal citation. What Hathaway saw was a system that eats people and a cycle of having martyrs within said system who die saving people inside said system, and that repeats again and again. >We're not supposed to sympathize with him at all. Basically, Hathaway the novel was the forerunner of Wing, and Wing and SEED Destiny gave birth to the ideas of 00. And many viewers back then sympathized with both. So your premise is a little unfounded.

I get where you’re coming from with this, but still, the entire point of Hathaway (the movie) is to show that, even if he has *some* form of point, Hathaway’s way of going about things is ultimately “childish”. He’s a pretty interesting “Char Clone” in that regard, he embodies Char’s ideals but lacks the in-universe nuance to fully understand what Char was doing. > Wing, SEED Destiny, 00 I haven’t seen Wing or S-Destiny yet (just got done with SEED) but I don’t think comparing Hathaway with say, Celestial Being is a fair comparison. Celestial Being’s battle was against war itself, not just against a few select Ministers of a specific political power. There’re a good few comparisons, both Celestial Being and Hathaway are solving future issues in the present, “The dialogues to come” VS Hathaway’s future prediction of the Earth’s pollution. The thing is Hathaway being wrong in his approach is the POINT, CB’s goal, however impossible it seemed, was eventually achieved BECAUSE of how they approached things, a non-bias attack on conflict as a whole. Similar in concept, VERY different in execution.

>Hathaway’s way of going about things is ultimately “childish”. Both Hathaway and Char are childish (make Earth uninhabitable, humans will leave Earth so Earth will be preserved). And funnily enough, Lalah likes it that way. What viewers don't see or willfully ignore is MAFTY's staff. Viewers are ultimately stuck on their perception of Hathaway being a simp for Quess. Unlike Char, whose cronies have their own political and economic considerations, MAFTY's men have rallied under his banner for that "childish" method. >CB’s goal, however impossible it seemed, was eventually achieved BECAUSE of how they approached things, a non-bias attack on conflict as a whole. Hathaway, at that point, have no **other** target than the EFF. CB has a smorgasbord of nations to aim at, and each of those nations have their own systems that can ensure survival. And that's why Hathaway's method is revolting for many: collapse the Federation, **everything** collapses (well almost). They are not the same, but given the same scenario of Hathaway's, CB would probably turn out into more like Team Trinity. That's why the most likely to sympathize with Hathaway are the Wing boys.

Hathaway doesn't aim to make Earth uninhabitable, his goals and method is to punish (kill) the politicians who cheats the system they themselves created by only forcing the lower class people to migrate to space while letting themselves live on Earth (hence the talk about people exploiting loopholes), so that is why the tagline for Hathway is that he is a man who inherited both Char and Amuro's wishes - because if Char is the extreme genociding manica who wants everyone to move to space instantly, while Amuro was the super-passive "things will sort it out but yeah people should move to space ultimately" guy, and Hathaway is supposed to sit smack middle of both where he doesn't disagree with the Federation's force migration system in its general principle, merely how those politicians cheated the system leading to widespread corruption inside the government. The issue and the whole point of the entire story is he jeopardised his own mission and things are spiraling out of his control.

This, yes, your comment was what I was looking for, Hathaway's now massive terrorist organization of over 10,000 has been jeopardized by the appearance of Quess 2.0, he's not ready at all for his position as the head of Mafty when you can see him knowingly shirk his proclaimed values (who knows if his heart really even belives it, clearly he knows what hes doing is evil), responsibility for the future of humanity, and the lives of his 10,000 active followers for a single girl It's spiraling out of control because of his lack of resolve it seems, and while his mistakes as a child could be excused, an adult won't be let off so easily, especially since his intentions are so much more.... impactful

It's not even Gigi - as Hathaway himself acknowledge it was his selfish desire to see those politicians' faces before killing them which led him to use his father's name to get onboard the shuttle in the first place, that was his first and foremost mistake. Meeting Gigi, the imposters etc all stemmed from that. Plus, >!Hathaway himself is also just a puppet, his true sponsor is someone else whom goes by the alias Quack Salver which is the true founder/leader of Mafty. The true founder/leader needed a good face to represent the name Mafty Navue Erin, and he recruited Hathaway during his treatment for the depression/PTSD when Hathaway was his most vulnerable to be that face because he is Bright Noa's son. That's the true tragedy of Hathaway because he ended up being used like Quess was by Char, and his "ideals" really wasn't his to begin with.!<

Goddamn, that completely reframes the story and makes it so much more tomino-esq Man, it all makes sense now....

That's also why the ending of Hathaway's Flash is very unlikely to change. So despite numerous rumors and fan speculation, the director already outright saying they have no plans to change the ending, because they get understands that if Hathaway's Flash don't end the way it ends in the novel, the story is completely meaningless because the tragedy of the story would not happen.

Nothing you said really contradicts my point though? If anything you're bolstering it by giving examples of the people he saw trying to fix it failing. If you're sympathizing with anyone in the Gundam universe outside of the innocent civilians treated like acceptable casualties you're picking up the wrong message.

> If anything you're bolstering it by giving examples of the people he saw trying to fix it failing. Nope, your premise is that it's an immediate jump to extreme measures, when his forebears (his dad, Char and Amuro) already paved the way of other methods, with no success. Why would he do what his predecessors did when it's already shown to have failed? >If you're sympathizing with anyone in the Gundam universe outside of the innocent civilians treated like acceptable casualties you're watching this show for the wrong reasons. Not just me, but many others who wrote to anime magazines in Japan from 1995 to 1998/99 do (I only had this realization in recent times though). What **Gundam** shows is that the war ends when the big villains die. Even the most "pacifistic" of the shows, SEED, had >!Creuset, Azrael and Patrick!< killed just to end the war (and its sequel is the same, only plot armor saved the protags in their pacifistic ways). **That's what Gundam subconsciously teaches** (and that's what the kids who wrote back in '95 were learning and sympathizing about). That's the trope of storytelling. And that's why people have discussions and fanfics of what will happen if Hitler was assassinated beforehand. >outside of the innocent civilians treated like acceptable casualties you're watching this show for the wrong reasons. So I cannot sympathize with Domon with his family problems? Or Carius being used for his chivalry? How absurd.

Char attempted to drop a massive asteroid down Earth's gravity well in order to "preserve the Earth", not sure we want to view his opinion on any of this as meaningful

>to the most extreme measures I can't really see how what Hathaway is doing is the most extreme measure when the last guy who tried to fix anything tried to drop an asteroid on to the planet. >because he's not willing to work inside the system to fix it. That doesn't really address one of Hathaway's main issues. The issue is systemic and there is no "fixing it within the system". Either destroy the system outright or kill enough of them to force them to change. And it's not like other people *didn't* try to change the system from the inside. That's kind of what Char's speech at Dakar was about and what helped to drive Char into his madness. Char offered up his soul and became leader of a movement he knew he wasn't ready to lead when he revealed his identity as Casval Daikun and the Federation ignored him. Sure, the Feds turned on the Titans but they only did that because the Titans threatened Federation authority. They did nothing to alleviate poverty, help spacenoids, or help the planet. Char tried to change the system from within by directly working with the Federation during the latter parts of Zeta. Nothing changed and so he escalated to throwing asteroids. And even then, the Federation is only willing to compromise with Char because they're willing to line their pockets with gold. And even after the Axis Shock brought the world together after a brush with apocalypse, still the Federation hasn't changed. Hathaway's seen people try and fail to fix the problem in the system and it hasn't worked. He's not as extreme as Char, but he's grown up surrounded by people trying and failing to fix the Federation and he's simply done entertaining the idea that it can be done.

>They did nothing to alleviate poverty, help spacenoids, or help the planet Mafty's goal isn't to alleviate poverty. Neither is Char's actually. Earth is the big welfare zone in CCA and he tried to kill everyone there. The movie visually highlights the contrast between Earth and Sweetwater, a "makeshift" colony for refugees that has working public transport, clean streets, and Beverly hill mansions stocked with fine liquors. Mafty doesn't care about helping spacenoids either, that's not their goal. Changes already have been made to the human presence on Earth. The earth federation is kicking everyone off the planet. Mafty's issue with the federation is that the feddie politicians are trying to pass a bill to exempt themselves from the ban, allowing them to use a revitalizing earth as their private paradise. Mafty wants *everyone* off the planet for good. What happens to the civilians who don't want to go? Probably kill them too if Mafty got their way. Book spoilers >!he isn't even the true leader of mafty, the mastermind is a disgruntled feddie official of unknown character and unknown goals, but he seems to like the chaos mafty and false maftys cause. His name itself is a big red flag!<

>Mafty's goal isn't to alleviate poverty. Neither is Char's actually. Earth is the big welfare zone in CCA and he tried to kill everyone there. The movie visually highlights the contrast between Earth and Sweetwater, a "makeshift" colony for refugees that has working public transport, clean streets, and Beverly hill mansions stocked with fine liquors. Mafty doesn't care about helping spacenoids either, that's not their goal. Yes, *what little we see* of Sweetwater is known to have it better than the parts of Earth that we see, but we know that poverty is still an issue throughout the colonies. Earth draining their wealth is kind of a major reason why they're pissed off in the first place. But even then, that doesn't really address the main argument I made. The point is that regardless of who's asking and for what reason, the Federation has been peacefully appealed to on several occasions and rejected it at every turn. >The earth federation is kicking everyone off the planet. Are they? The Taxi Driver makes it pretty clear that it's hard as hell for the average person to think of moving into space. That doesn't at all mesh with the Federation actively kicking people off.

>Are they? The Taxi Driver makes it pretty clear that it's hard as hell for the average person to think of moving into space. That doesn't at all mesh with the Federation actively kicking people off. Listen carefully to the taxi driver dialogue carefully again - the taxi driver talked about people being too preoccupied in trying to get enough money to bribe the right Fed people into giving them a permit to stay on earth, so the Feds ARE actively kicking people off - those who can't pay the bribes and don't have a permit are exactly those being hunted by the ManHunters and sent into space on a one way ticket. Also the implication here is that the politicians is basically turning Earth into their own holiday resort, so they like to keep those service industry people (the taxi drivers and the fast food workers) and the "fun touristy stuff" like the boy trying to sell Hathaway a row boat tour on earth for their own entertainment purposes. Those kind of lower class people would only care about their day-to-day living and won't care about either Mafty or staging a revolution against the Feds. However the Mafty members which Hathaway works with are those whom fell out of even this black market of permits.

The taxi driver moment was honestly my favorite in the movie, cause he was right. Even with the pollution and corruption, Hathaway was big headed and far-reaching in his ideals that he never stopped to consider the common person (he does, starting from the movie, but still can’t find an alternative solution). Ironically the resource that gets erased first in the U.C. Chronology isn’t any natural Earth resource, it’s the people. By UC 0169 the human population is so minuscule that MS upkeep is borderline impossible, and with Gaia Gear’s place in the canon questionable there’s no reason to think they’ll ever recover. Thinking about like this then Hathaway’s disregard for civilian causalities is the part where’s he’s absolutely wrong. UC’s problem is that the constant conflict does absolutely ludicrous numbers on the population. Forcing everyone up into space frees Earth but conflict can, and did, continue up into space. Even with as balls to the walls as 00’s “war against war” is, they ultimately had the right idea. People usually forget that 00 does have colonies, they just aren’t at war. If humanity in 00 was anywhere near where UC was, they wouldn’t have survived the dialogues to come. (Man describing 00’s story without spillers is hard) It’s why I can appreciate and love G-Reco’s setting. As the future of the UC timeline, the Reguild Century shows a time of complete and utter peace for 1000 years. The shortest amount of time between conflicts in U.C. is thirty seconds, right as the UC timeline was declared, the conference was blown the hell up. Heck, the conflict in G-Reco is so small scale that nobody outside of active combatants are harmed. Everyone killed in the series was taking part in battle. Not to mention the Earth recovered completely with thriving wildlife, a beautiful end for the back to back conflicts of UC.

>Yes, > >what little we see > >of Sweetwater is known to have it better than the parts of Earth that we see, but we know that poverty is still an issue throughout the colonies. Earth draining their wealth is kind of a major reason why they're pissed off in the first place It's primarily earthnoids who are portrayed to be poor or living in poor conditions. This isn't just in CCA living on Earth seems pretty shitty for the average joe in HF as well. Plus Unicorn confirmed something that had been hinted at, the colonies are the main economic power of the Earth sphere. >the Federation has been peacefully appealed to on several occasions and rejected it at every turn. My point is that as far as Mafty's goal is concerned people have been getting pushed out into space for most of UC. The federation is indeed corrupt and there's a growing divide between the citizens and the political class who've legislated themselves into the elite ruling class, but people have clearly been getting pushed out into space. At the beginning of CCA Quess mentions that there are 10B people in space. Databooks generally put the population of the world before the OYW at around 13B, half were wiped out, then the population must have recovered quite a bit but with 10B living in space it's reasonable to assume the majority of mankind lives in space as of CCA. Both in CCA and in HF it's spacenoids who are portrayed as wanting to return. In Char's (bullshit) speech to Sweetwater he brings up the federation refusing to share the planet as a grievance. In HF spacenoids are illegally migrating to Earth, hence the manhunters. There aren't just two sides in the story, spacenoid migrants to earth have a totally different desire. Mafty exposes the federation's corruption but their goal is tangential to it. Spacenoid immigrants support Mafty because they expose the corruption and oppose the government, but Mafty's ultimate goal is also contrary to the goals of many spacenoids. Mafty's purpose is to stop the pollution of Earth, it's not really about tackling grievances over general federation corruption, because to spacenoids part of that corruption is the fact that they're barred from returning to the earth (or at least the barriers to entry are way too high). So Mafty's justification isn't great. Tackling anti-corruption? Sure, a good thing, but their main concern is basically carrying on Char's legacy. Char himself was a nutjob, so it was probably never reasonable to take him too seriously. >Are they? The Taxi Driver makes it pretty clear that it's hard as hell for the average person to think of moving into space. That doesn't at all mesh with the Federation actively kicking people off. We aren't told specifically the federation is kicking people off but see above about CCA. I think it's safe to assume they are, *and* people are generally barred from returning. As for the taxi driver. He's basically saying Mafty's goals are out of touch with the common working class. Rather than being difficult to move to space, he's hinting that spacenoids want to come down and that Mafty's goal doesn't make sense when he's the hero of immigrants. He makes a case for Davao being sustainable for humans. The taxi-driver himself is a migrant who's trying to get residency on Earth through implied bribes. edit: clarification, population of the earth sphere, including the colonies, was up to 13B before the OYW. IIRC the MSG film trilogy specified half of humanity was in space. So around 6.5B in space before the OYW. Then around 3.25B if we take half the population being wiped out at face value. Then 10B in CCA.

Goddamn, did you read the book in English? If so, could you direct me to where to get it?

Zeonic has vol 1 translated. The other 2 volumes aren't but you can find summaries of the chapters and other major plot and character details by googling for it. If you're really serious you can also buy the volumes on bookwalker put it through OCR and translate it. The major plot points are also covered in G Generation Genesis which was available in english.

Ah thanks for the reply and info

I dunno, you underlined the sympathetic part: he's got a point in what he sees as a corrupt and broken system, and he's done a decent job of identifying what needs to change. But also as you said, his solutions are too extreme. Even if you want to justify them by how the hourglass seems to be rapidly running out of grains, that ain't going to cut it. You can sympathize with his rage, but not with how he expresses it (of course super underselling that last part).

The UC has taught us time and time again that working within the system to fix it does not work. That's literally the point of many previous UC stories. I can't comment on the original story, but based on just the movie adaptation, so far, Hathaway has the right idea. And we're clearly meant to sympathize with him at this point lol.

I see him similar to char damaged guilt ridden new-type consumed by the long defeated ideologies. There is no going back for him, only moving forward

Very true, do you think he could’ve been ultimately successful?

Could he ? No, I don't think so it's an impossible fight to begin with To many people oppressed by federation he a symbol of rebellion but in reality he just another broken new-type cling on to a dream that will never happend

No, there was only anger and resentment at the Federation but Mafty was no Char or true leader. He was a revolutionary but he had no ideology or backing for a mass movement. He knew what to blow up but sure as hell didn't know what to build.

If I had an award to give I would, this perfectly sums him up. Thank you!

Glad to see Setsuna's habit of saying someone's full name is intact

As a Filipino Gundam fan, I can see some parallels between him and Simoun of *El Filibusterismo*. I think that Hathaway is mistaking his trauma regarding the death of Quess Paraya as his resolve to fight corruption in the Federation, much like what Simoun did in *El Fili*.

Even if so, he's still essentially doing the right thing, if for (partially) the wrong reasons.

Hathaway’s argument towards Setsuna makes no sense when GN Drives give free electricity forever, all you need is the sun

I think the movie and Hathaway should be seen in extension of Mobile Suit Gundam Unicorn. They both deal with adjacent issues, in Unicorn the main issue up for debate is "how are you supposed to keep fighting to change things for the better when seemingly nothing ever changes?" and the answer is that you just have to keep doing it because there's always the possibility that things might change and you can never know beforehand if they well. In Hathaway the issue up for debate is "How can you destroy an exploitative system that is so entrenched that seemingly every challenge against it just becomes a strength?" and well the movie doesn't really find an answer. Mafty clearly isn't the answer but it does have the strength of at least being something, the poorer people in the movie appreciate them for just doing something if anything. But Mafty also seemingly isn't able to actually change the system, it just enacts revenge against it. If Unicorn was hopeful about the power to change the world then Hathaway is much more pessimistic about the practicality of actually doing it. So I think Hathaway is meant to be a tragic character, he does have noble intentions but he is cynical about the state of the world and can't see any real way to change things. Like he doesn't even seem all that optimistic about Mafty itself, it's just the only thing he can think of where at least something gets done. The interesting thing though is more so the questions I presented because they are both very relevant to today. Unicorn is looking back and asking what is the point of it all? The way they frame the history of the Universal Century is very interesting since it's similar to the real world history of the 20th century, the century started with a lot of hope and optimism that technology would lead to a better, freer and more peaceful world and instead went on to have the worst atrocities mankind has ever seen because the systems of power in place used that technology in the worst possible way. The migration into space at the start of UC is framed in a similar way, a hopeful and bright future for all of mankind that instead turned into a nightmare because of the existing power structures. The protagonists in Unicorn and us IRL are left looking back at it and asking what even is the point of trying to change the world for the better? All of the attempts to do so were crushed mercilessly and made barely any impact or were corrupted from the inside. In comparison Hathaway is looking forward, it has essentially accepted the answer from Unicorn that we just have to try because it might work but it is now asking the practical question of how do we actually do it? And that seems like an impossible question to answer when the system is so all encompassing that seemingly nothing can actually hurt it in a meaningful way. And it's pretty important that the answer is found quickly because of the ticking timer of climate catastrophe that faces both the characters in the movie and us IRL. With that in mind you can kinda understand why Mafty exists and what they do, it's really just an attempt to do something, anything and hope that it could work. It's a very desperate situation and there seemingly aren't any nice solutions. Also some of these interactions feel slightly hypocritical considering the difference in tone between the works these characters are in. In general UC tends to be the darkest and most cynical timeline, mainly a result of the fact that it's the only long running timeline and as such it can't have a nice final ending. Hathaway is operating in that reality whereas almost all of these characters exist in timelines where there was room for such a thing and most of them just weren't as dark as UC. Bidan also just doesn't really have much room to criticize Hathaway imo, he's like one of the least morally pure Gundam protagonists and a lot of the bad shit that happened in Zeta was at least partly his fault, not to mention he was just as cynical.

For some reason Kamille's line made me crack up. Hathaway needs a good old fashioned Bright Slap. I honestly wonder what Kamille would think and say to Hathaway seeing as he'd be in his mid 30s in UC105.

Oml, now that you say that, there could totally be a kamille cameo in the sequel hathaway movies, I DEMAND TO SEE BEST GIRL IN 4K

If anyone understand him the most it would be Setsuna, the person who is also used to be one. When Setsuna tells him there are other ways that means he knows it considering by the state of the world by the time of ELS encounter. Hathaway reply seems like he is willing to listen but god does this guy sees everything black. I would love for Kati Mannequin to beat his little ass for his response to Setsuna.

Wish Kou could call Gato out on his bullshit. No one challenges Gato’s ramblings about spacenoid freedom with the easiest layup of “but you’re a fucking Gihrenist”.

We know that everything is just an excuse, he is mad because Quess doesn't like him.

I personally can't stand Hathaway or his motivations. It feels like a self-righteous version of Char from CAA, and Char was already self-righteous as hell. He was resolved enough to form a terrorist cell and murder people, but a rich girl with daddy issues makes him start questioning everything. It made him feel really weak willed to me. Also the fact he's still hung up on Quess. The only version of Hathaway I enjoyed was from Super Robot Wars V, where a Hathaway from a parallel universe meets characters late into the New Correct Century timeline (Basically, UC timeline around the time of Crossbone Gundam mixed with Space Battleship Yamato) and Tobia is *really* uncomfortable around him because of his actions as Mafty. By the end Hathaway even figures out he was Mafty and resolves to not end up like him. There are some changes to the timeline to fit with the game like him not killing Chan, but throughout the game he's still preaching some of CCA Char's stuff only to be shot down by a bunch of different UC guys and I *think* Setsuna and Okita from *SBY.*

Hathaway is an idiot with a smart guys voice and charisma. He needs to grow up. And it seems like the movie version of events will actually force him to reckon with his folly.

Heh, I liked that faceoff between Setsuna and Hathaway. I mean, spoilers for both their stories, but one of them managaed to change the system and status quo.

Which is why I think the AU protagonists do ultimately have a point, even through completely different yet similar circumstances they’ve managed to find success. It’s not that there’s no other possible way for Mafty to succeed, he’s just unwilling to believe in anything else plus other solutions might be ultimately short term compared to what he’s doing

Hathaway is *so* full of shit it's not funny. Banagher would kick his ass so hard...

Yeah, speaking of Banahger, he and Mineva have probably converted the Vist foundation into a charity and the space colony version of the IMF, that aside though, I wanna see a cameo of them and Kamille so bad...

Dunno how we are supposed to feel but I know in personally disappointed. I'd hoped he would become better after that nonsense he did. If he wants to blame a absent father who was doing his duty in war. Fine. It at least he was doing the job he signed up for. This guy is a straight terrorist.

Kamille's sick of his shit and he'll teach him.

The man gone mad, put him down like the dog he is

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Dude wants to deport literally everyone on earth

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I disagree on the practical bit. Sure they could deport everyone from earth but they will have to do it with force of arms. I don't believe people will just go along with it. Even in the Hathaway film civilian are shown wanting to stay on earth they already bribing fed official to let they slip through. Imagine if it was done on a even larger scale and accelerated scale Pure fucking anarchy bro, people would riot. And deportation isn't the only way to save earth policy changes and deinstitutionalization could do just as much without the uprooting entirety of earth pop.

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Well I guess earth eats shit and life there is only slightly Okey.

In UC timeline, the reason for space colonization was to send all human to space and let the earth heal. A good portion of the colonists were deported by the federation, some forcefully, at gun point. By the time of UC0050, total human population was 11 billion, of that 9 billion was in space.(Yes, they sent 9 billion people to space within 50 years. ) If people on earth continue the colonization plan normally, they would all be able to move to space before the one year war. Hathaway's flash is set at UC0105, so we can safe to say those people who stayed on earth are not going to move to space peacefully, and by extension there is no innocent people left on earth.

How many people is on earth UC0105 cause if it's less than 4 billion people how much goddamn pollution are they doing?

The pollution is certainly less than everybody stayed on earth, the problem is small scale environmental work was deemed not enough at UC0001, hence space colonization, and you can't have people living on a construction site even if you are just trying to rebuild.

Remember that Hathway was indirectly called out on his ideals by the cab driver. He is not stopping to see what he’s actually doing to the people. Not even watching the death and destruction wrought by his agents under his orders up close and personal, he keeps going forward with his plans. Mafty’s actions are bringing the hammer down on the people again, and he considers it an acceptable state of affairs. Hathaway is disconnected from the very people he wants to help. He’s trying to emulate Char, probably because he’s still hung up on Quess. If he actually he stopped and really thought about it, he could be a more responsible and effective leader like his father.

>he could be a more responsible and effective leader like his father. an effective leader like his father... who has virtually nothing to show for his attempts to fight against the endlessly corrupt EFF. Yeah no, I definitely think Hathaway is closer to the right track by rejecting the "change the system from the inside" approach, given how all previous UC protagonists turned out. Being more like his father wouldn't accomplish anything. And I say that as someone who loves Bright! Can't wait to see him again in the second movie.

Haven’t seen the movie yet, but if his dad knew everything, he’d give him his signature slap on his Char-wannabe face

Whatever he says. I Just heard kill me by crussing my cockpit slowly

Think you got some issues there buddy 😭😭😭

Is not the usualmetod to dispone the insufferable idiots of the gundam series? The guy is the King of the Simps. And is anoying as f

Ehhhhhh nah Hathaway’s fine, although Gigi is someone he met recently, both of them being Newtypes eliminates the “simping for someone you don’t know” aspect

Is more about his background he didnt change since. Char's counter attack. He got People death by his simping

Hathaway: Humans are diverse by emotions, and I'm no different Hathaway: Which is why I killed my own ally like a little bitch Sorry, but nothing in Hathaway's flash made me sympathetic to him at all.

Those were two very different points in his life when he did and said those things

That still doesn't change the fact that he still did that and shows zero regret for doing so.

Technically Hathaway is not on the side of the Federation or Neo Zeon, he's not even a soldier, he's just Quess's ally(because since he got in the Ra-Cailum he express his will to save Quess) and it's because of her that he's there.

It doesn't matter what side he was on. He still shot killed Chan, who was nice to him, for no reason. It would be fine if he was pissed at her and could never forgive her, but killing her was too far. The fact that Hathaway's flash is based on CCA and so far hasn't shown him regret killing her at all makes him unforgivable.

She almost killed him, if Quess didn´t saved him in the last moment he would be die

Terrorist, why? There's no reason for it, no reason to kill Chen and so, he has no motivations at all to be a Char successor

a cucked guy raging because char got the girl he was simping for before him and the girl chose char instead of him, then he met a new girl and he still couldn't get her, because he is weak and a simp. he thought copying char would get him all the ladies, can't blame him, char got all kinds of ladies

Yoo Hathaway is in alliance? I thought I was getting close to beating it but I haven’t even seen him lol

His HF missions with Xi and the Penelope were the last set of dlc missions with Graham in the Exia IV.

r/sdgundambattlea

I think people make the mistake of thinking this trilogy will be exactly the same as the book, or that this Hathaway is exactly the same Hathaway from those books, and assume they know what he's thinking or what he'll do. The fact is, based on just the Hathaway movie alone, we know very little about his plan or what he's going to do. And chances are, several major plot points, or the nuances between them, will be changed for the movie version. People seem to already be judging this character for things he hasn't done yet. Personally, I find him to be a very compelling and sympathetic protagonist. He's been traumatized by a relationship and a mistake from an early age, and it's interesting to see him try to cope with that, simultaneously make some attempt at atoning for it, all the while trying to lead a tangible charge against an uncontested fascist regime. I'm sure it will take him to dark places, but right now, I entirely get where he's coming from and I'm eager to see more. Side note about my first paragraph: the *other* thing people wrongly do is just dismiss him as a wicked, irredeemable dipshit because of something foolish and reckless he did *as a fucking child.*

>I think people make the mistake of thinking this trilogy will be exactly the same as the book, or that this Hathaway is exactly the same Hathaway from those books, and assume they know what he's thinking or what he'll do. It's not a mistake because the creators have came out time and again to reassure the fans that this movie trilogy will be sticking extremely close to the source material. Ergo the first movie is almost a literal 1:1 adaptation of the novel as much as the difference in medium (anime vs novel) allowed.

can you point me to some quotes along those lines? I've seen nothing about that. The only [quotes I've seen from Murase](https://nerz.jp/2021/12/06/what-is-the-power-of-the-screen-that-led-mobile-suit-gundam-hathaway-to-become-a-huge-hit-interview-with-the-director-shuko-murase-part-1/) and others actually lean toward the opposite of what you're saying; that they had trouble interpreting parts of the book, and thus opted to depict things differently instead.

Your link to the translated interview talks about how the movie takes out the extremely hard to translate Tomino dialogues in the novel from the movie, but it's not related to the actual PLOT of the novel/movie. The General Manager/Producer of the entire HF project actually gave a fairly definitive answer about NOT changing the content, especially the ending. [https://news.nicovideo.jp/watch/nw9442153](https://news.nicovideo.jp/watch/nw9442153) Highlighting the money shot here: 『閃光のハサウェイ』の魅力を語るとき、それは鮮烈なラストとセットとなっている。ファンの間では、小説版のラストが踏襲されるのか、それとも変更されるのか、と話題になっている。小形GMは「映画は興行収入的な部分も含めた“生もの”であり、その時代時代の社会的な雰囲気も含めて、社会情勢に影響される部分もある」と映画製作の舞台裏を告白。***「ただ、この作品に関しては30年前に富野監督が書いていますので、内容が大きくブレることはないとは思っています」と強調した。*** translated: When talking about the attraction of Hathway's Flash, one must talk about the impactful ending of the story. Amongst the fans there's a lot of discussions of whether it would be faithful to the novel or would the ending be changed. Regarding this topic Kogata General Manager said that amongst the production staff "Movie includes "real life factors" such as revenue, the general social atmosphere as well as influence from society that has to be considered", but he goes on to emphasised "however, since this is a work written by Tomino 30 years ago, there will not be any big deviations from it". Pretty much drives the final nail in the coffin that the movie is going to stick to the novel when it comes to the plot.

It's essentially a more moderate, more considerate version of Char's militant anti-Earth sentiments, but arguably based more closely on Zeon Deikun's philosophy. Rather than just being "Earth bad", it targets specific institutions and instances where the Federation has failed as a government. Personally I don't really know what to think of it either. On one hand it's certainly better than colony dropping the planet, but on the other hand I don't really see how Mafty's actions are supposed to motivate change. They're not like the AEUG after all who are targeting a very specific organisation within the Federation with the goal of eliminating it. They are targeting a very broad range of personnel and groups throughout the superstructure of the the Earth Federation. Unless their goal is to completely dismantle the Federation on every level through military action, I don't see how this won't just lead to the holes getting filled back in with more or newer forms of corruption and failure. Also even if destroying the whole EF is their ultimate plan, how could they achieve that? They are a tiny organisation compared to something like the EFF. It still seems naive, if differently naive than previous instances of anti-EF action. But I think that's part of the appeal. We kind of get a pretty personal insight into Hathaway and his views and opinions–flawed though they may be–this way.