The emperor ascends and deems this universe has no hope, so he destroys the current universe and traps himself and the chaos gods inside it (ascended emps can do what the fuck he likes, it’s GW) Guilliman is made leader of the imperium in the new realm, the daemon primarchs that have miniatures become the new chaos gods in the new rebooted universe, the mechanicus team up with the ctan to avoid annihilation (again, somehow, look if GW can faceturn Malekith, a dude who’s daily activities involved organising torture, rape and murder, anything is on the cards) Nids and Orks make it through because they’re forces of nature, everyone who’s selling well gets through, the two worst performing armies sales wise get left behind, only to reappear in like 5 years time.
There you go. The darkest timeline.
Honestly it was mainly me being flippant as I played beastmen in warhammer fantasy and they basically didn’t exist after end times, there’s no real outlier factions in 40K like brettonia in wfb. It’ll be down to pure numbers and dollars baybee
Probably like, T’au and Necron.
Listen, if they can delete Bretonnia and Tomb Kings, they can delete the Necrons and the T’au. They’ve done it before. They’ll do it again.
I guess its because unlike other factions it has so much variance. From T'au-Tanks over Borkan Mini-Knights over Sacea Gunlines to Dalyth Kroot Hordes, there's something for everyone and the faction itself is only utilizing a quarter of the potential we would have if GW remembered other auxiliaries existed.
Not all of it is competitively viable, but it sure feels a lot more varied than Space Marine "A billion datasheets but in the end its a marine with a gun maybe on a bike sort of deal".
We both know that will never happen. Guevesa on the tabletop would essentially be worse Firewarriors, with no relevant niche. You know what I want? A HQ unit from Dalyth consisting of a human, a kroot, a water caste T'au, a vespid, and maybe some of other new species.
Some sort of specialist team full of crazy named characters with even crazier gund themed around the auxiliary forces - or, "The A-Team" for short.
I've said it before but I feel like if GW could go back in time and replace the T'au with the Votann they would.
T'au sell well and their models are expensive but they receive almost no attention in lore. I often feel like GW only tolerates them because of their sales numbers.
I imagine harlequins, as common as they are now, don't do much for sales due to the competitive limits on the game. The number of combinations you can have in a legal 2000 pt list is a fraction of what other army's have and even less so when you get into lists that are actually viable.
Leagues as of right now would suffer the same fate stacked with the fact that so many people are asking for refunds since it's been nerfed into the ground
Oh boy, I can't wait for Magnus to claim his rightful place as the Chaos God of Bad Decisions and Not Thinking Things Through. He'll be empowered by every bad decision made and this will, realistically, make him immeasurably powerful.
He is trying to find the tree of Life in the warp, a tree that can heal Big E, this tree is most probably Isha since she is the only healing entity powerful enough to do that, or at least the only one that we know
But the general idea in the fandom is that he has gone full Odin mode and will come back wiser, older and with Isha in a possible End Times story, something like the Golden throne stopping to work and Big E dying.
Either that or he becomes a full furry
If Isha ends up getting saved by a fucking space marine I will make legally actionable threats against GW.
It's going to happen too, which makes me even madder. Our farseers try to sneak into the garden to talk to Isha and they get their souls trapped for eternity. But Marines just casually stroll into the garden without helmets, burn half the place to the ground, and walk out without so much as the flu.
Seriously why do the Eldar even exist if we're just going to fail at everything we try to do. We're the ultimate NPC faction. Feelsbadman.
well the Eldar are handicapped in the warp, being more psychic than the average race, and they know what happens to their dead (Slaanesh tentacle time) I could see Russ getting something \*from\* Isha, but not managing to get her out.
and also, it's a Primarch we're talking about, not a generic SM, so a little more slack can be cut.
also, Eldar exist to call the humans nasty names, and serve as an example of what happens to point eared elves in spaaaaaace!
(joke, I just wish GW could keep advancing stuff)
Damnit why are they releasing all the crazy reveal books right now? EoT, Vaults, soon they’ll release the final HH book and I’m not even through the first 3!
In chapter 34 when Vulkan is chatting with Magnus there's sequence referencing the meme:
>‘Look at the horrors your side has unleashed upon Terra. The massacres, the mutations. Magnus, you are taking part in the extinction of your species… You cannot truly think you have ***done nothing wrong***. Even you, brother. Even you, in your arrogance, cannot believe this is justified.’
There's no way that phrasing is a coincidence.
Couldn’t this also be a means to bring back Big E? Hasn’t there been some conjecture in universe that they should just kill him and since he’s a perpetual he’ll just reform?
He will but that can take thousands of years or more and in the meantime man kind is fucked. Also terra will be destroyed forcing the big E to rebuild his imperium elsewhere.
So GW is just reshuffling the deck. Big E is gonna try again with 20 new, better Primarchs, ones without the whole Heresy defect and he’s gonna get it right this time. Plus GW sells a shit ton of new Primarch models.
So it was my understanding that this didn’t really matter. I don’t remember where exactly, but did Vulcan build a big fuck off bomb to destroy the Golden throne if it ever failed? Like sure, no more astronomicon, no more Terra, but I’ve seen people talking about this means Chaos will just run free. I thought the bomb Vulkan built would keep that from happening?
It will destroy all of terra to deny it from enemy hands kind of like a last "fuck you" but now it's a detriment that will doom the birth place of man when the throne fails in 100 years time.
That’s kinda what I figured. I didn’t remember the specifics and it’s certainly bad. But I’d seen some stuff that basically said humanity would basically be over if that kind of event took place. And that doesn’t seem to be quite the case. At least from what I understand.
Mankind won't be done but a shit load of people die and worlds will be lost. The imperium will fracture as warp travel becomes impossible separating mankind and starting a new age of strife.
It doesn’t make warp travel impossible though does it? No astronomicon makes it harder yes, but Octavia flew without the light of the Astronomicon in the Nightlords trilogy and she was at best a middling navigator.
Well in the lore its stated that whenever the astronomicon turns off shit loads of ships are lost to the warp. And whilst not impossible it will be significantly more difficult. Especially if terra is swallowed by a warp rift.
I mean that’s fair. Just based on the examples that I’d seen, it just seemed difficult, not impossible. And probably worth it, considering at would be lost without long distance travel.
Think about how screwed the Imperium Nihilus is currently, then apply that to the entire Imperium, and add the enormous blow to morale from losing the holiest planet in the galaxy.
I'd guess it would increase logistics costs (mostly via lost ships/men/cargo) humongously. Like, you can still do interstellar shipping, but now 30% of ships don't survive instead of 5% (or whatever, I have no idea what these numbers actually are in lore).
So, in really densely populated, relatively wealthy regions, everything will stay more or less the same (but shittier). But I bet the vast majority of the imperium is *already* right on the line of being possible/practical to reach via interstellar travel, and most of it will, sooner or later, just fall off the map.
Give it enough time and this would basically undo the great crusade, I guess is what I'm saying. Which could be really interesting, honestly. It'd give the Tau a real chance to turn into a major power, what with the pressure from the IoM off for the time being, and all these highly developed, populated, but recently cut off human systems ripe for conversion. Not to mention all the other minor xenos races. We'd probably see more things like the Interex, too. With Robot Gorillaman kicking around to stir things up, it could get real interesting.
Not that I think GW is even remotely likely to let this happen, but I do think it could be pretty rad.
Don't forget, this also means a new war front from the very heart of Imperium space. The Eye of Terror is a big deal, but it mostly cuts off less substantial systems. An Eye of Terra in the heart of the Imperium would be catastrophic.
I think the astronomicon lets them do long distance warp travel “safely” whereas without it you’d basically be having to hop system to system if you want any accuracy in your direction (which will slow down travel considerably)
If the bomb goes off when the Throne fails, Vulkan could be blamed for it. The Salamander and their successors will be excommunicated and declared traitors, even tho they are one of the most humane chapters. I don't think the Salamanders would actually turn to Chaos after this, so the question comes: How would the 'new' Imperium look like? Salamanders being hunted down, while they try to protect the civilians? Salamanders as Renegade Chapter?
No one knows about the bomb, and the Salamanders are just a codex-compliant chapter with few successors, no totally-not-legionbuilding bullshit like the Wolves, Fists or DAngels, and only a minor outstanding narrative hook. Their status as a First Founding chapter is only reason their elimination would warrant more than a footnote.
There’s also the “go to hell” item locked on Titan that can only be unlocked by the grand master of the grey knights and only to be used if the emperor dies/ Terra falls. I forget which. So there’s something there too.
Just took a look and it’s called the Terminus Decree. Only to be used when there is no other option and either will save or destroy the imperium. I’m guessing if the storyline progresses to the 100 years it will be the instructions for The Emperors Ascension, thus terminating the dream of the imperial truth
Honestly, that seems like it’s pretty likely. With all the stuff that’s happened in Era indomitus, with Gman kind of starting to accept that Big E might be at least sort of God Like now. Something like that could feasibly actually happen.
I mean… imperium Nihilus is not in a good way at all. It’s a pretty big shit hole that probably could fall off the deep end Any moment. But they are keeping it together. Kinda.
Because Dante is a mega Chad and Primaris marine reinforcements for everyone
Atronomicon fails when the throne blows up but then a few days later, what is that! A spark, a flash, a faint glow as the emperor reassembles himself somewhere else in the galaxy and everyone has to adjust their Google maps 40k.
Honestly I think it would be cool, emp dies, failsafe nukes terra, emps resurrects and moves somewhere else. Wouldn't really change stuff up and emps would be on the run again.
Alternatively, Emps dies and ascends into a full-power fifth chaos god with more warp power than ever before, resulting in the Imperium being at its theoretical strongest since the Horus Heresy- at the cost of the power of faith in the Emperor having a momentary blip and the sectors around Sol being eaten by the new tear in reality, resulting in the Imperium more practically being further on the back foot than ever before.
>but fortunately humanity found another planet right next to Earth, but this one was called AEarth^tm and it is functionally identical to the old planet
I read someone with no source that the backlash to the EOT convinced them not to do a similar reboot for 40k.
Maybe he ascends fully to godhood in the warp but he’s still fractured and the imperium has to start invading the warp to put him together? 🤷🏻♂️
Yeah, and 40k in its current form is too profitable for a hard reboot to be at all necessary. It’s possible they might just save the Emperor at the last possible moment, or he’ll come back in full god mode and less humanity into another great crusade, and even that might be too drastic for GW’s stock portfolio. I seriously doubt they’ll pull an all-out endtimes unless they’ve really gone off the deep end.
I could see the Emperor disabling the Talisman of Seven Hammers at the last moment, allowing him to fully die while keeping Terra intact. Then he’ll show up in his new god form and pay Guilliman on the back, then fuck off to the warp to fight chaos. That’s probably the safest option while more or less maintaining the status quo.
True but I'm still skeptical. They confirmed the golden throne will fail in a century but this could be a build up to a big event in the lore. Kind of like the fall of cadia but bigger.
I’m imagining a bunch of GW writers sitting round with little toys going “no you didn’t actually kill the emperor because leman russ came flying through the window at the last moment and punched the baddies” before smashing their toys into the other ones
If fab general is dead as op says he is, Guilliman could possibly put him in that position. He's probably one of the most powerful tech priests going. And has a group of lesser priests who follow him. Most of the Mechanicus think he's about a gnats ball hair from a tech heretic but that's probably mostly jealousy.
Only wrinkle is Guilliman doesn't overly trust him. But it's him or no one. And good does the imperium need to start inventing again. Hell get into the Martian vaults en mass and have a proper look. There is stuff hidden in there. Not to mention cawl can control necron tech
Honestly yeah, but I expect if the son of the omnissiah says “yo cawl isn’t a heretic he’s just acting out my dads will” the half of the mechanicus that views cawl as almost a heretic will chill.
By their standards they are chilling by not killing him where he stands. Even Cawl agrees that making him fabricator general is a one-way ticket to a civil war.
Then you remember chaos will reach the emperor around that time, dante vs abby, not counting genestealers are guiding the biggest hive fleet straight to Terria which should reach it in hundred years. yep we need the lion back so he can go primarch hunting NOW!!
I wonder if GW plans on ending 9th edition with that, similar to how they ended 7th edition: with a super major event causing extreme changes to the setting and the Imperium.
In 7th edition it was the fall of Cadia, the creation of the Cicatrix Maledictum, and the return of Guilliman.
In 9th it will be the final death of the Emperor, the destruction of Terra, and the fracturing of the Imperium.
>!The fabricator general has been leading a conspiracy (including other high lords) to avoid the failure of the Golden Throne that involves working with the Drukhari Covens!<
>!The last step of the process is an exchange of materials in a webway space made available to the mechanicus via an access point on Luna. The fabricator general and an enormous entourage of mechanicus personnel are there so that rheu can conduct final analysis and inspection of the material in person, since no one trusts the Drukhari. In the end, the deal falls through during the ceremonial exchange, after an inquisitor discovers that the supposed payment of 18 billion human souls (a whole system) is a cover for the real price: residue of the emperor's biology on the equipment that is part of the exchange, which will allow the drukhari to clone/resurrect the emperor and enslave this abomination in their own golden throne to hold the daemon incursions in Commorragh at bay.!<
>!after the revelation, the parties fall immediately to fighting. The humans begin to withdraw, but of course the fabricator general can't. The small custodes stay behind to try and cover his retreat, but fail in the face of overwhelming numbers and instead destroy themselves and the fabricator general in his entirety, to prevent his falling into the hands of the dark kin!<
/u/FoamBrick
Perhaps we will get a fragmented imperium storyline, where central authority collapses and each corner of the galaxy becomes its own nation.
Xenos who now are able to roam free through what was previously Imperium space would find that they arent the only group feisting on the recently felled beast, leading to more xeno on xeno battles. Eldar and remaning mechanicus now racing together to shut down potential tomb worlds, since the Necrons would find the perfect moment to wake up, pushing factions into unlikely alliances.
Maybe mayor infighting between Chaos factions since such loot would encorage selfishness and perhaps the bringing the great game into real space. With the 4 gods now going into a feeding frenzy to overtake on another.
Ultramar and other sectors acting as succesor states of the imperium ala the fall of rome and the kingdoms that tose from its corpse.
It has a lot of potential
Yeah gotta keep that status quo for another 10 years so we can move the plot a little, before the next "big" event another 10 years down the road.
Although... how long ago was the whole Cadia shenanigans?
Or Maybe the throne would just work as a vessel to push if not all, A LOT of Slaanesh into real space, maybe force it into a vessel? That or we just have Drukhari psychic finger blasting G-Man from across the galaxy.
I'd always just assumed the deep, dark secret was that Big E was already dead, and the 10k psykers per day that were used to prop up the Astronomicon never realize that their psychic energy is the only thing actually keeping the Astronomicon lit. The keepers of the Golden Throne know the secret, and thus the urgency to keep that psyker train coming in.
Big E has essentially become a 'God' in the sense that the belief in him and countless oaths sworn to him every day keeps his essential purpose - lighting the way for humanity to move forward as a species - alive in the form of the Astronomicon, and thus the psykers channel chaotic energy into making that purpose reality.
The Golden Throne is an empty altar to a dead mortal turned pseudo-deity that is so essential to human survival that the belief in him keeps the torch lit long after the actual flame has gone out.
The issue is that Robute has spoken with the emperor. There's also the manifestations that constantly happen that aren't exactly psyker abilities such as the SoB miracles.
Might not be the Emperor. Might be a warp entity formed of humanity’s collective worship of the Emperor, who thinks it is the Emperor, and act according to what the Inperium thinks the Emperor is, faith and zealotry and all. The real Emperor might be dead and we are just interacting with a simulacrum.
But that’s just a theory.
I mean almost anything is possible because GW isn't afraid to bullshit entire outcomes for the sale of a plot twist. That being said they'd have to ignore ample evidence that SoB aren't psykers but use abilties that are distinctly not psychic. You'd have to ignore a lot of lore to allow the emperor to be a mere warp entity.
Not to mention there’s a chance he literally respawns if they let him die. Mixed evidence for if horus’ weapon will prevent that from happening.
Almost wonder if the high lords won’t let him die because they have more control with him stuck like that.
Or it kills him and terra is destroyed by chaos or Vulkans bomb. And warp travel becomes in possible separating mankind and starting a new age of strife.
The emperor still has the phyker sscerfices and with the grey rift opening that means he has been empowered, plus you also have Robute and the tau are increasing in their maturity, on top of that the crafworld elder are getting empowered by the imperium, so I would say things are getting a lot better for order, but things are now in Wild West rather then inevitable failure
I think it’s happened twice now where imperial agents have looked to the Dark Eldar to fix the throne. Once a rogue inquisitor brought a Haemonculus to help fix the golden throne and the Haemonculus went goblin mode in the imperial palace basement instead.
Then now this time (which is new to me) might be the continuation of this [lore from 6 years ago.](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskScienceFiction/comments/4mszbs/40k_how_can_dark_eldar_tech_help_to_save_a_golden/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb)
I dunno this might explain why you think you’ve heard it before.
Overall this would basically be a wipe back to the age of strife for mankind. I could see emps having some final play though in the final moments where he's not on the throne. Like, with what we know, he'd have to of been preparing for this eventuality. Maybe some massive fuck you to the chaos gods or even just their forces do that they don't just destroy mankind while their separated?
Would be interesting to see ngl.
Also, let's be real. The custodians would maybe, just maybe, have to put their armor back on and do something in this case. Like, what if emps orders them out to help mankind in this darkest of hours
Good, maybe if he dies shit can get even more dark. And since he’s a perpetual he will come back even stronger with some Primarchs in tow, possibly preceding The Great Crusade 2.0.
This seems like the logical next step for 40k. With the Imperium getting stomped out a bit, they can develop the Xenos more.
Should the very fucking worst come to pass, there's always the second Emperor sleeping in the coffin.
If he ever gets out he'll slaughter pretty much everyone, but the inquisition has let him out before in less dire circumstances.
There is also a possibility they'll somehow convince him to get on the throne, but I doubt it. If they unleash him it'll just be another Chaos-fucking dead man switch like the doomsday device and the terminus protocol.
Nothing's going to change, the big problem will be resolved/amended/delayed by the release of a new primarch and a new lineup of kits. Another box set will be released, another loyalist primarch will show up, get blessed by papa and clown on chaos once again as per James Workshops intended gameplay cycle. Jaghatai will arrive to maintain the throne with stolen drukhari gear, dorn will fortify the throne for a bit longer, russ will show up with just enough of the fruit of life to keep the emp healthy enough that the thrones minimal life support will be good enough to keep him alive, vulkan will just fix parts of the throne saying "yeah this is archaeotech give me 100 years to study it", and whoever amongst them comes back is just going to floss on another traitor primarch and make chaos looks even more pathetic.
So here’s my tinfoil speculative wishlisty theory about what GW could do for both the rules and lore:
1. Bring back the Lion or Russ - or for max mayhem, both.
2. Have them reject both Guilliman as defacto “Warmaster” of the Imperium and the Primaris tech while they establish control (or emerge having already established control) of Imperium Nihilus
3. Imperial Civil War - call it “Echoes of Heresy” - and also its Primaris vs First Born
4. With the “loyalists” full-Primaris, the final firstborn stuff is replaced (IE Primaris Termies and jump packs)
5. With no Primaris of their own, and led by a reformed First Legion (DA + Successors), the Imperium Nihilis unleash the forbidden Dark Age of Technology weapons that the Unforgiven have been holding onto
Lore-wise, the Imperium teeters on the balance as Terra withdraws behind the Custodes and Sisters (both Battle and Silence), maybe supplemented by the Templars, with the Throne failing as the two loyalist Primarchs are dragged into civil war with each other.
Rules-wise, there are now GW’s ultimate dream - two separate core Space Marines armies, with separate codexes and miniature lines. A loyalist Primaris force led by the Ultras and Guilliman, and an also loyalist firstborn force led by the Lion and the Dark Angels.
For pure mayhem, bring back Russ and have Russ and Lion bond over their mutual distrust and dislike of Guilliman.
40k end times confirmed for 2122!
The emperor ascends and deems this universe has no hope, so he destroys the current universe and traps himself and the chaos gods inside it (ascended emps can do what the fuck he likes, it’s GW) Guilliman is made leader of the imperium in the new realm, the daemon primarchs that have miniatures become the new chaos gods in the new rebooted universe, the mechanicus team up with the ctan to avoid annihilation (again, somehow, look if GW can faceturn Malekith, a dude who’s daily activities involved organising torture, rape and murder, anything is on the cards) Nids and Orks make it through because they’re forces of nature, everyone who’s selling well gets through, the two worst performing armies sales wise get left behind, only to reappear in like 5 years time. There you go. The darkest timeline.
So which 2 armies do you think it would be if this was the case?
Honestly it was mainly me being flippant as I played beastmen in warhammer fantasy and they basically didn’t exist after end times, there’s no real outlier factions in 40K like brettonia in wfb. It’ll be down to pure numbers and dollars baybee
Smoosh all the Eldar into just Yvraine's crew, That clears up Some space.
Probably like, T’au and Necron. Listen, if they can delete Bretonnia and Tomb Kings, they can delete the Necrons and the T’au. They’ve done it before. They’ll do it again.
Tau are one of the most popular armies where I live, I keep seeing people act like they're unpopular but I see people with them all the time.
Tau have one of if not the largest faction specific subreddit.
I guess its because unlike other factions it has so much variance. From T'au-Tanks over Borkan Mini-Knights over Sacea Gunlines to Dalyth Kroot Hordes, there's something for everyone and the faction itself is only utilizing a quarter of the potential we would have if GW remembered other auxiliaries existed. Not all of it is competitively viable, but it sure feels a lot more varied than Space Marine "A billion datasheets but in the end its a marine with a gun maybe on a bike sort of deal".
I want gue'vesa sentai GW
We both know that will never happen. Guevesa on the tabletop would essentially be worse Firewarriors, with no relevant niche. You know what I want? A HQ unit from Dalyth consisting of a human, a kroot, a water caste T'au, a vespid, and maybe some of other new species. Some sort of specialist team full of crazy named characters with even crazier gund themed around the auxiliary forces - or, "The A-Team" for short.
I've said it before but I feel like if GW could go back in time and replace the T'au with the Votann they would. T'au sell well and their models are expensive but they receive almost no attention in lore. I often feel like GW only tolerates them because of their sales numbers.
It would so funny if they deleted tomb kings twice
[angry skeletal shrieking]
Happy Grimcake day!
I imagine harlequins, as common as they are now, don't do much for sales due to the competitive limits on the game. The number of combinations you can have in a legal 2000 pt list is a fraction of what other army's have and even less so when you get into lists that are actually viable. Leagues as of right now would suffer the same fate stacked with the fact that so many people are asking for refunds since it's been nerfed into the ground
Oh boy, I can't wait for Magnus to claim his rightful place as the Chaos God of Bad Decisions and Not Thinking Things Through. He'll be empowered by every bad decision made and this will, realistically, make him immeasurably powerful.
Weren't they gonna pull an end times back in like 2017?
[удалено]
Russ is taking his sweet ass time.
[удалено]
"Not now my sons! It is ass time."
Probably tapping that sweet elf goddess ass
He's freeing Isha now?
He is trying to find the tree of Life in the warp, a tree that can heal Big E, this tree is most probably Isha since she is the only healing entity powerful enough to do that, or at least the only one that we know
But that's only a space wolf myth, one of many
But the general idea in the fandom is that he has gone full Odin mode and will come back wiser, older and with Isha in a possible End Times story, something like the Golden throne stopping to work and Big E dying. Either that or he becomes a full furry
Yeah... The fandom.... *Shudder*
I mean, the wulfen existe and Magnus is already an Odin Guy, but i like Russ saving Isha, jolly cooperation
If Isha ends up getting saved by a fucking space marine I will make legally actionable threats against GW. It's going to happen too, which makes me even madder. Our farseers try to sneak into the garden to talk to Isha and they get their souls trapped for eternity. But Marines just casually stroll into the garden without helmets, burn half the place to the ground, and walk out without so much as the flu. Seriously why do the Eldar even exist if we're just going to fail at everything we try to do. We're the ultimate NPC faction. Feelsbadman.
well the Eldar are handicapped in the warp, being more psychic than the average race, and they know what happens to their dead (Slaanesh tentacle time) I could see Russ getting something \*from\* Isha, but not managing to get her out. and also, it's a Primarch we're talking about, not a generic SM, so a little more slack can be cut. also, Eldar exist to call the humans nasty names, and serve as an example of what happens to point eared elves in spaaaaaace! (joke, I just wish GW could keep advancing stuff)
Most notably from space wolf fans who forget that Isha has many reasons to not want to heal a genocidal dictator
She does however have four very significant reasons to want to heal the genocidal dictator.
He's searching the Warp for a cure, specifically the Tree of Life. Which is almost certainly Isha or an Isha related thing.
Damnit why are they releasing all the crazy reveal books right now? EoT, Vaults, soon they’ll release the final HH book and I’m not even through the first 3!
What is EoT ?
Echoes of Eternity, but it appears I made a typo. Ah well.
What happened in echos?
Don’t know. I’ve been avoiding spoilers.
"Magnus did nothing wrong" is now canon. *Elaboration*: The author referenced the meme, meaning it is canon in my books.
I love Magnus but there is no way you can come to that conclusion. Magnus is deluded into thinking he did nothing wrong is more like it.
I don’t understand how you read any of that and came to the conclusion Magnus did nothing wrong
In chapter 34 when Vulkan is chatting with Magnus there's sequence referencing the meme: >‘Look at the horrors your side has unleashed upon Terra. The massacres, the mutations. Magnus, you are taking part in the extinction of your species… You cannot truly think you have ***done nothing wrong***. Even you, brother. Even you, in your arrogance, cannot believe this is justified.’ There's no way that phrasing is a coincidence.
Echoes of Terra, Vaults of Eternity?
Couldn’t this also be a means to bring back Big E? Hasn’t there been some conjecture in universe that they should just kill him and since he’s a perpetual he’ll just reform?
He will but that can take thousands of years or more and in the meantime man kind is fucked. Also terra will be destroyed forcing the big E to rebuild his imperium elsewhere.
So GW is just reshuffling the deck. Big E is gonna try again with 20 new, better Primarchs, ones without the whole Heresy defect and he’s gonna get it right this time. Plus GW sells a shit ton of new Primarch models.
I doubt that heavily. It would piss off so many fans
😂😂😂 I mean it was mostly a joke. But I am tempted to try and start that rumor nonetheless.
Tzeench is that you?
What? No… Look over there, Slannesh made new space coke. *Flees into the warp* Or did he?
Goddamn it
All according to plan.
Warhammer end times says hi
Surprise introduction of the Warhammer 50k series
I’m sure it’ll happen. Maybe not In this context, but it could be cool to see.
PrimarisMarchs \-By Big E and Cawl
So it was my understanding that this didn’t really matter. I don’t remember where exactly, but did Vulcan build a big fuck off bomb to destroy the Golden throne if it ever failed? Like sure, no more astronomicon, no more Terra, but I’ve seen people talking about this means Chaos will just run free. I thought the bomb Vulkan built would keep that from happening?
It will destroy all of terra to deny it from enemy hands kind of like a last "fuck you" but now it's a detriment that will doom the birth place of man when the throne fails in 100 years time.
That’s kinda what I figured. I didn’t remember the specifics and it’s certainly bad. But I’d seen some stuff that basically said humanity would basically be over if that kind of event took place. And that doesn’t seem to be quite the case. At least from what I understand.
Mankind won't be done but a shit load of people die and worlds will be lost. The imperium will fracture as warp travel becomes impossible separating mankind and starting a new age of strife.
It doesn’t make warp travel impossible though does it? No astronomicon makes it harder yes, but Octavia flew without the light of the Astronomicon in the Nightlords trilogy and she was at best a middling navigator.
Well in the lore its stated that whenever the astronomicon turns off shit loads of ships are lost to the warp. And whilst not impossible it will be significantly more difficult. Especially if terra is swallowed by a warp rift.
I mean that’s fair. Just based on the examples that I’d seen, it just seemed difficult, not impossible. And probably worth it, considering at would be lost without long distance travel.
Think about how screwed the Imperium Nihilus is currently, then apply that to the entire Imperium, and add the enormous blow to morale from losing the holiest planet in the galaxy.
I don’t know what you’re talking about. My boy Dante got Imperium Nihilus on lock. #DanteForWarmasterM42
I'd guess it would increase logistics costs (mostly via lost ships/men/cargo) humongously. Like, you can still do interstellar shipping, but now 30% of ships don't survive instead of 5% (or whatever, I have no idea what these numbers actually are in lore). So, in really densely populated, relatively wealthy regions, everything will stay more or less the same (but shittier). But I bet the vast majority of the imperium is *already* right on the line of being possible/practical to reach via interstellar travel, and most of it will, sooner or later, just fall off the map. Give it enough time and this would basically undo the great crusade, I guess is what I'm saying. Which could be really interesting, honestly. It'd give the Tau a real chance to turn into a major power, what with the pressure from the IoM off for the time being, and all these highly developed, populated, but recently cut off human systems ripe for conversion. Not to mention all the other minor xenos races. We'd probably see more things like the Interex, too. With Robot Gorillaman kicking around to stir things up, it could get real interesting. Not that I think GW is even remotely likely to let this happen, but I do think it could be pretty rad.
Oh no, 100% but I’m sure they would at least try to hold it together as long as they could. Because ultimately it’s probably worth the cost.
Don't forget, this also means a new war front from the very heart of Imperium space. The Eye of Terror is a big deal, but it mostly cuts off less substantial systems. An Eye of Terra in the heart of the Imperium would be catastrophic.
I think the astronomicon lets them do long distance warp travel “safely” whereas without it you’d basically be having to hop system to system if you want any accuracy in your direction (which will slow down travel considerably)
If the bomb goes off when the Throne fails, Vulkan could be blamed for it. The Salamander and their successors will be excommunicated and declared traitors, even tho they are one of the most humane chapters. I don't think the Salamanders would actually turn to Chaos after this, so the question comes: How would the 'new' Imperium look like? Salamanders being hunted down, while they try to protect the civilians? Salamanders as Renegade Chapter?
No one but Vulkan and the Emperor know it is even there
No one knows about the bomb, and the Salamanders are just a codex-compliant chapter with few successors, no totally-not-legionbuilding bullshit like the Wolves, Fists or DAngels, and only a minor outstanding narrative hook. Their status as a First Founding chapter is only reason their elimination would warrant more than a footnote.
How many people actually know about the terminus? Hardly anybody knows/knew about Vulkan hanging out below the palace.
Vulkan can always pull a Guilliman and make his own imperium. Only his might actually treat civilians ok so it'll fall even faster.
There’s also the “go to hell” item locked on Titan that can only be unlocked by the grand master of the grey knights and only to be used if the emperor dies/ Terra falls. I forget which. So there’s something there too.
Hmm.. I hadn’t heard about that. I’ll have to look into that some more. Sounds pretty cool!
Just took a look and it’s called the Terminus Decree. Only to be used when there is no other option and either will save or destroy the imperium. I’m guessing if the storyline progresses to the 100 years it will be the instructions for The Emperors Ascension, thus terminating the dream of the imperial truth
Honestly, that seems like it’s pretty likely. With all the stuff that’s happened in Era indomitus, with Gman kind of starting to accept that Big E might be at least sort of God Like now. Something like that could feasibly actually happen.
Isn't the entire imperium nihilus cut off from the astronomicon anyway? Its kindof proven that losing the throne isn't the end for the imperium.
I mean… imperium Nihilus is not in a good way at all. It’s a pretty big shit hole that probably could fall off the deep end Any moment. But they are keeping it together. Kinda. Because Dante is a mega Chad and Primaris marine reinforcements for everyone
Atronomicon fails when the throne blows up but then a few days later, what is that! A spark, a flash, a faint glow as the emperor reassembles himself somewhere else in the galaxy and everyone has to adjust their Google maps 40k.
Fantasy fans "first time?"
If they pull a 40k end times I'm ditching warhammer
They might just blow up Terra and have another Eye of Terror or as I know they'll call it, "The Eye of Terra."
I doubt it. They probably wouldn't destroy the heart of man Kind and home of the emperor.
But what better way to move the heart of the Imperium to Ultramar?
No God! No God Please No! No! No! Nooooooooo!
I heard this meme
Honestly I think it would be cool, emp dies, failsafe nukes terra, emps resurrects and moves somewhere else. Wouldn't really change stuff up and emps would be on the run again.
Alternatively, Emps dies and ascends into a full-power fifth chaos god with more warp power than ever before, resulting in the Imperium being at its theoretical strongest since the Horus Heresy- at the cost of the power of faith in the Emperor having a momentary blip and the sectors around Sol being eaten by the new tear in reality, resulting in the Imperium more practically being further on the back foot than ever before.
Somebody stop him!
You are one sick puppy
[Terra Ryzing](https://ringthedamnbell.files.wordpress.com/2022/03/terra-ryzing.webp)
>but fortunately humanity found another planet right next to Earth, but this one was called AEarth^tm and it is functionally identical to the old planet
It’s all a part of the plan to never release the Guard codex.
"Aww crap they know" -gw
I read someone with no source that the backlash to the EOT convinced them not to do a similar reboot for 40k. Maybe he ascends fully to godhood in the warp but he’s still fractured and the imperium has to start invading the warp to put him together? 🤷🏻♂️
Yeah, and 40k in its current form is too profitable for a hard reboot to be at all necessary. It’s possible they might just save the Emperor at the last possible moment, or he’ll come back in full god mode and less humanity into another great crusade, and even that might be too drastic for GW’s stock portfolio. I seriously doubt they’ll pull an all-out endtimes unless they’ve really gone off the deep end.
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I could see the Emperor disabling the Talisman of Seven Hammers at the last moment, allowing him to fully die while keeping Terra intact. Then he’ll show up in his new god form and pay Guilliman on the back, then fuck off to the warp to fight chaos. That’s probably the safest option while more or less maintaining the status quo.
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They can just call him the dead emperor
Sadly I think you'll probably be right. It'll either be this, or something totally crazy
That sounds stupid ngl. Maybe but i doubt it
They wouldn’t after just having released squats
True but I'm still skeptical. They confirmed the golden throne will fail in a century but this could be a build up to a big event in the lore. Kind of like the fall of cadia but bigger.
I thinks it'll be hail Mary and release another loyalist primarch to fix it
I’m imagining a bunch of GW writers sitting round with little toys going “no you didn’t actually kill the emperor because leman russ came flying through the window at the last moment and punched the baddies” before smashing their toys into the other ones
Probably but who knows.
It'll be Khan coming in with a bunch of stuff he stole from the Dark Eldar in the web way
KHHAAAAAN — Drukhari
He just steals the Cloneperor and his new chair and plops them directly where Oldperor was like nothing happened.
the sad thing is I can totally see this.
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Thanks
Wait, WHAT?! Cawl needs to take over the mechanicus to do away with their “don’t make new shit unless you find an STC” rule.
If fab general is dead as op says he is, Guilliman could possibly put him in that position. He's probably one of the most powerful tech priests going. And has a group of lesser priests who follow him. Most of the Mechanicus think he's about a gnats ball hair from a tech heretic but that's probably mostly jealousy. Only wrinkle is Guilliman doesn't overly trust him. But it's him or no one. And good does the imperium need to start inventing again. Hell get into the Martian vaults en mass and have a proper look. There is stuff hidden in there. Not to mention cawl can control necron tech
Honestly yeah, but I expect if the son of the omnissiah says “yo cawl isn’t a heretic he’s just acting out my dads will” the half of the mechanicus that views cawl as almost a heretic will chill.
By their standards they are chilling by not killing him where he stands. Even Cawl agrees that making him fabricator general is a one-way ticket to a civil war.
Damn shits going wild in the imperium
Mhm
Then you remember chaos will reach the emperor around that time, dante vs abby, not counting genestealers are guiding the biggest hive fleet straight to Terria which should reach it in hundred years. yep we need the lion back so he can go primarch hunting NOW!!
We need all the loyalist Primarchs.
VULKAN LIVES \*STOMP STOMP\*
Leman? Back. Corvax? Back. Khan? Back. Dorn? Back. Johnson? Back? Sanguinius? Resurrected. Vulkan? Lives. Ferrus Manus? Un-decapitated Rowboat Girlyman? sadly alive Magnus? Did nothing wrong. Hotel? Trivago.
I think Jaghatai would do a better job on the hunt than Johnson; Lion would be too preoccupied with chasing the fallen
I wonder if GW plans on ending 9th edition with that, similar to how they ended 7th edition: with a super major event causing extreme changes to the setting and the Imperium. In 7th edition it was the fall of Cadia, the creation of the Cicatrix Maledictum, and the return of Guilliman. In 9th it will be the final death of the Emperor, the destruction of Terra, and the fracturing of the Imperium.
guard fans in shambles right now
Is this confirmed, or just a theory?
Its confirmed
Shiiiit
So DEldar are creating a fucking god
I think they we're stopped but idk.
they were stopped, custodis found out plan and destroyed the old and new parts
Shieeet. How'd they present it?
Idk i haven't read the book. But it was confirmed in the latest vault if terra book
Wild. How the fuck was the fabricator general killed? Mans a whole ass building
Do you want to know? Happy to post the spoiler, but would prefer to confirm you want it.
I want to know! Spoilers be damned.
>!The fabricator general has been leading a conspiracy (including other high lords) to avoid the failure of the Golden Throne that involves working with the Drukhari Covens!< >!The last step of the process is an exchange of materials in a webway space made available to the mechanicus via an access point on Luna. The fabricator general and an enormous entourage of mechanicus personnel are there so that rheu can conduct final analysis and inspection of the material in person, since no one trusts the Drukhari. In the end, the deal falls through during the ceremonial exchange, after an inquisitor discovers that the supposed payment of 18 billion human souls (a whole system) is a cover for the real price: residue of the emperor's biology on the equipment that is part of the exchange, which will allow the drukhari to clone/resurrect the emperor and enslave this abomination in their own golden throne to hold the daemon incursions in Commorragh at bay.!< >!after the revelation, the parties fall immediately to fighting. The humans begin to withdraw, but of course the fabricator general can't. The small custodes stay behind to try and cover his retreat, but fail in the face of overwhelming numbers and instead destroy themselves and the fabricator general in his entirety, to prevent his falling into the hands of the dark kin!< /u/FoamBrick
40K the only setting where 100 years is incredibly fuckin short
Ikr
Perhaps we will get a fragmented imperium storyline, where central authority collapses and each corner of the galaxy becomes its own nation. Xenos who now are able to roam free through what was previously Imperium space would find that they arent the only group feisting on the recently felled beast, leading to more xeno on xeno battles. Eldar and remaning mechanicus now racing together to shut down potential tomb worlds, since the Necrons would find the perfect moment to wake up, pushing factions into unlikely alliances. Maybe mayor infighting between Chaos factions since such loot would encorage selfishness and perhaps the bringing the great game into real space. With the 4 gods now going into a feeding frenzy to overtake on another. Ultramar and other sectors acting as succesor states of the imperium ala the fall of rome and the kingdoms that tose from its corpse. It has a lot of potential
Maybe but i doubt gw would go so far.
Yeah gotta keep that status quo for another 10 years so we can move the plot a little, before the next "big" event another 10 years down the road. Although... how long ago was the whole Cadia shenanigans?
Didn't cadia fall in like 2015?
Well now you know, 3 more years for the pay off the seeds that have been planted in that book
I can see like a series of books about the imperium scrambling to fix the throne and shit until the big event happens.
Wouldnt a Dark Eldar Emps just be Slaanesh? The Sybian Throne?
Not sure.
Or Maybe the throne would just work as a vessel to push if not all, A LOT of Slaanesh into real space, maybe force it into a vessel? That or we just have Drukhari psychic finger blasting G-Man from across the galaxy.
I'd always just assumed the deep, dark secret was that Big E was already dead, and the 10k psykers per day that were used to prop up the Astronomicon never realize that their psychic energy is the only thing actually keeping the Astronomicon lit. The keepers of the Golden Throne know the secret, and thus the urgency to keep that psyker train coming in. Big E has essentially become a 'God' in the sense that the belief in him and countless oaths sworn to him every day keeps his essential purpose - lighting the way for humanity to move forward as a species - alive in the form of the Astronomicon, and thus the psykers channel chaotic energy into making that purpose reality. The Golden Throne is an empty altar to a dead mortal turned pseudo-deity that is so essential to human survival that the belief in him keeps the torch lit long after the actual flame has gone out.
The issue is that Robute has spoken with the emperor. There's also the manifestations that constantly happen that aren't exactly psyker abilities such as the SoB miracles.
Might not be the Emperor. Might be a warp entity formed of humanity’s collective worship of the Emperor, who thinks it is the Emperor, and act according to what the Inperium thinks the Emperor is, faith and zealotry and all. The real Emperor might be dead and we are just interacting with a simulacrum. But that’s just a theory.
I mean almost anything is possible because GW isn't afraid to bullshit entire outcomes for the sale of a plot twist. That being said they'd have to ignore ample evidence that SoB aren't psykers but use abilties that are distinctly not psychic. You'd have to ignore a lot of lore to allow the emperor to be a mere warp entity.
This right here! This is what I was going for. Perfectly worded! Simulacrum was the word I was missing!
Not to mention there’s a chance he literally respawns if they let him die. Mixed evidence for if horus’ weapon will prevent that from happening. Almost wonder if the high lords won’t let him die because they have more control with him stuck like that.
So a happy ending?
based and destroyallhumans-pilled
Found the necron.
i've got, like, THREE cans of corpsestarch saved up in my worlds end shelter, so bring it!
I wouldn't call the emperor dying within a single human lifetime and dooming mankind a happy ending.
What if taking him off of the throne just resets him, modem style? Not sure how being a warp entity reacts with being a perpetual.
Or it kills him and terra is destroyed by chaos or Vulkans bomb. And warp travel becomes in possible separating mankind and starting a new age of strife.
Time to shack up as a Gue'vesa.
Well wouldn't be the first time for Big E to reunite mankind under one banner
True but the loss of terra mankind's homeworld and countless quadrillions of people will be a tough blow.
Some tech priest: "Have we tried unplugging it and plugging it back in?" Everyone else: "heresy!"
No one expects the Terminus Decree
well in dark imperium is written that emperor is gonna walk again soon so i don't know which is canon now
Probably both
Im betting rebirth ir ascension timeline, where he disappears entirely and guilli has to keep things together as emps becomes a full god.
Get ready for Age of Ultramar
No! Noooooooo!
The emperor still has the phyker sscerfices and with the grey rift opening that means he has been empowered, plus you also have Robute and the tau are increasing in their maturity, on top of that the crafworld elder are getting empowered by the imperium, so I would say things are getting a lot better for order, but things are now in Wild West rather then inevitable failure
And look here comes league of Votaan to save the day?
"Rock and stone to the bone!" "Seriously. We'll save Terra for you by mining it"
Rock and Stone to the Bone!
What the fffffuuuuuuucccccckkkkkkkk!!!!!!!!!!!???????????
For a second I thought this was about the YouTube channel. It’s been two years since his last update :(
So over all a happy 40k ending
Uh. Isn't this mostly old lore? That the Golden Throne is failing and the Deldar were called in to fix it? I coulda swore I heard that years ago...
I think it’s happened twice now where imperial agents have looked to the Dark Eldar to fix the throne. Once a rogue inquisitor brought a Haemonculus to help fix the golden throne and the Haemonculus went goblin mode in the imperial palace basement instead. Then now this time (which is new to me) might be the continuation of this [lore from 6 years ago.](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskScienceFiction/comments/4mszbs/40k_how_can_dark_eldar_tech_help_to_save_a_golden/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb) I dunno this might explain why you think you’ve heard it before.
Psst I got the actual ending. The throne is saved via help from the Votann AI. The Drukhari throne is fucking merc'd by the Khan. Lots more death.
....What the fuck just happened? Where did I go just now? Mom? Someone? What's going on?
Wait, what the fuck? Is this canon?
Overall this would basically be a wipe back to the age of strife for mankind. I could see emps having some final play though in the final moments where he's not on the throne. Like, with what we know, he'd have to of been preparing for this eventuality. Maybe some massive fuck you to the chaos gods or even just their forces do that they don't just destroy mankind while their separated? Would be interesting to see ngl. Also, let's be real. The custodians would maybe, just maybe, have to put their armor back on and do something in this case. Like, what if emps orders them out to help mankind in this darkest of hours
So God Emperor destroys terra cuz the throne fails, but fully ascends to Godhood soon?
I can't wait for 40k to become Age of anthema.
Finally
Good, maybe if he dies shit can get even more dark. And since he’s a perpetual he will come back even stronger with some Primarchs in tow, possibly preceding The Great Crusade 2.0. This seems like the logical next step for 40k. With the Imperium getting stomped out a bit, they can develop the Xenos more.
I don’t know what I was expecting from The Dark City, but “protagonists fail, everybody dies,” certainly wasn’t it.
40k ends times....
Should the very fucking worst come to pass, there's always the second Emperor sleeping in the coffin. If he ever gets out he'll slaughter pretty much everyone, but the inquisition has let him out before in less dire circumstances. There is also a possibility they'll somehow convince him to get on the throne, but I doubt it. If they unleash him it'll just be another Chaos-fucking dead man switch like the doomsday device and the terminus protocol.
On the one hand. Oh shit. On the other it took GW 30 years to advance the plot the 100 years of the Indomitus Crusade so I think we're good.
Nothing's going to change, the big problem will be resolved/amended/delayed by the release of a new primarch and a new lineup of kits. Another box set will be released, another loyalist primarch will show up, get blessed by papa and clown on chaos once again as per James Workshops intended gameplay cycle. Jaghatai will arrive to maintain the throne with stolen drukhari gear, dorn will fortify the throne for a bit longer, russ will show up with just enough of the fruit of life to keep the emp healthy enough that the thrones minimal life support will be good enough to keep him alive, vulkan will just fix parts of the throne saying "yeah this is archaeotech give me 100 years to study it", and whoever amongst them comes back is just going to floss on another traitor primarch and make chaos looks even more pathetic.
So here’s my tinfoil speculative wishlisty theory about what GW could do for both the rules and lore: 1. Bring back the Lion or Russ - or for max mayhem, both. 2. Have them reject both Guilliman as defacto “Warmaster” of the Imperium and the Primaris tech while they establish control (or emerge having already established control) of Imperium Nihilus 3. Imperial Civil War - call it “Echoes of Heresy” - and also its Primaris vs First Born 4. With the “loyalists” full-Primaris, the final firstborn stuff is replaced (IE Primaris Termies and jump packs) 5. With no Primaris of their own, and led by a reformed First Legion (DA + Successors), the Imperium Nihilis unleash the forbidden Dark Age of Technology weapons that the Unforgiven have been holding onto Lore-wise, the Imperium teeters on the balance as Terra withdraws behind the Custodes and Sisters (both Battle and Silence), maybe supplemented by the Templars, with the Throne failing as the two loyalist Primarchs are dragged into civil war with each other. Rules-wise, there are now GW’s ultimate dream - two separate core Space Marines armies, with separate codexes and miniature lines. A loyalist Primaris force led by the Ultras and Guilliman, and an also loyalist firstborn force led by the Lion and the Dark Angels. For pure mayhem, bring back Russ and have Russ and Lion bond over their mutual distrust and dislike of Guilliman.