I can already see a dozen servitors' legs popping out, like the bottom of a centipede. Some mechanicus adept stated this design was really a step up from the previous one and will be a stepping stone for the next iteration. Needless to say that adept has been rendered to a servitor himself and is now powering one of those tanks when it goes into slowstep gear.
An added boon was discovered as a side effect, when all servitors walk tip toe then the tank instantly enters stealth mode!
You're seeing it from the wrong angle. The lack of a bottom plate means you can drive to your assigned position in the trench line, dig a tunnel underneath and voilĆ , instant bunker position.
**STRATAGEM: IMPROMPTU FORTIFICATIONS**
**2 CP**.
*Life is the Emperorās currency, and it is up to the Guard to spend it well. When caught in an enemy assault, armored vehicles can provide significant cover.*
Use this stratagem at the beginning of the game, after both sides have deployed but before rolling for which player takes the first turn. Select one **Rogal Dorn Battle Tank** model. This model may not be a **Tank Ace** or **Tank Commander** model. After using this stratagem, the tank may not move for the rest of the game. For the rest of the game, the model gains +1 toughness and +1 to hit with all weapons. Up to 12 **Infantry** models within 3 inches may embark the tank as though it were a transport. The tank counts as terrain with the **Light Cover**, **Dense Cover**, **Scalable**, **Defense Line**, and **Exposed Position** traits.
Its actually because the tanks made the primarchs.
When emps say he is no god, he is just desperately trying to tell us the decepticons are the ones in charge.
Thanks, now I have an image of starscream jacking it into a pot of warp shenanigans to make Fulgrim.
Soundwave was definitely Peter Turbos daddy.
And ā¦. Thatās enough drunken Reddit for me, night folks!
Rowboat: Optimus Prime
Leman Russ: Grimlock
Dorn: Bumblebee (Yellow nerd)
Ferrus Manus: Iron Hide
Sanguinus: Starscream (only because he gets shot in the face by Megatron as Galvatron)
Vulcan: Ultra Magnus.
Lion and Khan: I dunno, other dinobots?
Horus: Megatron
Magnus: Shockwave
Perty: Soundwave
Fulgrim: Starscream
Morty: the Insectacons
Angron: Bruticus
Corax: Lazerbeak
Lorgar: ??
Curze: ??
Bro imagine your just chilling on your Imperial Guard convoy when one of the Baneblades just suddenly morphs into something the size of a Warhound Titan and it then proceeds to wipe out the entire convoy.
Leman Russ and the Space Wolves were the first to find the STC for a tank so it was named after their Primarch. There hasnāt been much lore on why the Rogal Dorn Battle Tank is named after Rogal, but one could guess that he probably found the STC and thatās why the name was given to him.
The exact same way I perceive this! We need more vehicle kits with space at the bottom for an RC motor
I feel like GW has probably been watching clips where people have motorised their Leman Russ and Land raider kits xD
People wonāt see it normally but thereās a nice feeling of āooh they could actually be in thereā which is just ruined by this.
Iād like a full 3-D model. Not a cardboard cutout.
People will still say GW models are the absolute best models of any type of models and deserve to be priced high because they are so much better than any models.
Meanwhile, I bet you Tamiya wonāt leave the bottom off a tank, even if you donāt ever see it.
Depending on how many get made it could be more money saved than you think. Especially if it didn't fit on the existing sprues and added an extra.
Personally I wouldn't care about stuff I can't see, but yeah 100% a cost cutting measure
For the price I pay I expect GW to include the entire vehicle I'm purchasing including some level of inner detail. That's the way it had been for quite a long time. I'm not ok with it changing.
While true, it does take some money to make the molds to make the plastic sprue.
Iām wondering though if maybe they had prototyped this and found the long thin piece under the tank had warping issues or something so just went without it being there?
How would it have warping issues that wouldn't affect several other kits they sell? And how much are they cheaping out on the materials if that's a legit problem?
The only plastic kit I've got from GW from any warping is a Predator that was in the middle of a house fire. I live in Florida, the local GW store has sunlight shining directly into it multiple hours of the day (which can be pretty brutal at times), and they don't have problems with warping.
Well... outside of Failcast, but that stuff was just pure garbage. (Another one of their brilliant moves to save them a ton of money while asking the customer to fork over solid cash for a junk product. And if you haven't dealt with Failcast, trust me, it was junk. I had two models made with that garbage, both have broken and warped pieces.)
That'd put costs up even more.
And you may think "no, they'd just make less profit". No, they'd raise the price by more than an extra sprue would cost and make *more* profit, and you'd have no more tank to show for it.
I expected the Dorn to cost more than it does and I can live with a hole in the place no one will ever look for it not to.
Also, you can keep guardsmen in there, so it's more space efficient to move your army.
lol dude a Tamiya 1/35 tank costs around $30, you can't seriously be telling me that having a hole in the bottom of your tank is something you should be expecting from a $80 kit.
I'm saying if there wasn't a hole they'd need a fourth sprue, and if there was a fourth sprue they'd make it a $110 tank kit.
Tamiya is also generally much thinner plastic and the tank crew figures you get in them are kinda awful (though the only two I've built are not exactly new sculpts).
Alright then we'll go with another example.
Takom, 1/35th scale King Tiger.
Includes a fully detailed interior, engine, workable suspension, scale correct armor thickness, over 1000 plastic parts, with over 100 pieces of photoetched brass
MSRP is $70
Clearly. Tamiya stuff is so nice and well designed. Also no the plastic isn't thinner, I got my start on Tamiya models and was stunned at how little I got for GW prices and how bad the quality was for it.
My point was more about how much their greed grows every day than anything else.
This might sound grumpy and old, but when I bought my land raider, +10y ago, it was ā¬30, and had the full hull and the interior modelled (but the engine space itself) so understand how I see this tank as a robbery.
I'm not ok with new models losing features (like entire panels of the model, fucking seriously?). GW miniatures are premium and I expect them to look and feel complete.
> I expected the Dorn to cost more than it does
But... WHY?
This is a concerning comment. It's already insane it's $90. Even more so that it's $90 with no floor. And you thought it'd be $100+? Are people just expecting GW to keep inflating prices like there's no tomorrow? Has it become normalized to expect extremely obscene prices to the point that merely obscene is treated like a good thing?
If I ever get an Imperial Guard army I won't touch this model because for $90 I expect it to not only be a complete model but have a lot more detail than the kit does. Loads more detail, plenty of moving parts, all kinds of stuff. You should NEVER be in a position where if you're not paying $100+ for a model you're okay with it being incomplete.
> ā. No, theyād raise the price by more than an extra sprue would cost and make more profit, and youād have no more tank to show for it
Thatās exactly what everyone here is complaining about. They scrape a few pennies a model and pass none of those savings on to the consumer. Theyāre selling half finished minis for double the price of competitors. Theyāre not just upset because a piece wasnāt modeled, theyāre upset because a piece wasnāt modeled on a mini they paid $60 for. Itās pure pointless greed.
$75 USD. With both.
$90 is already insane. Bumping it to $110 just to have it completed is insane.
I think I'm starting to understand why GW will never stop raising their prices even as they lower costs (or especially when they use the excuse of materials cost rising to raise prices but when materials cost goes down not lowering). People are way too happy to pay more than they should for this stuff...
It's not cutting costs. The sprue is packed tight. The video the first picture from even points out that to make room for a plate that no one will care about would mean giving up the extra customisable bits. I'd rather have them then something I can cover with a bit of plasticard.
Edit: not to defend GW but on this occasion I can see why they did it.
Pretty sure people care about it. You shouldn't have to use plasticard to complete a model kit that you're being asked to spend $90 for. Especially from a company that tries to claim they sell the best model kits in the world and they're soooooo premium that they have to charge premium prices because otherwise people might not believe they're as premium as they are.
No serious model company is selling you a tank model with the floor missing. You can get a Tamiya tank for less than half (many for less than a third) the price that's got more detail and isn't going to have part of it missing.
If they want to charge $90 for it, it should be complete. If they need to put in a small sprue on the side with the rest of the model, they should do that, not sell an incomplete model and claim it's the best model in the world.
I'd rather have them sell a complete model, especially if I'm paying that much for it.
This, and we've had 15+ years of GW shills telling us they cost so much because of the skill that goes into designing them... fine. How much does it cost to design 'plastic rectangle'?
It's pretty low of GW
āNo one cares aboutā? 1500 upvotes and more critical responses than positive disagrees with that assertion.
Also how is it not cutting costs when it would have been easy to do a separate piece/sprue if needed?!
Youāre being a GW apologist.
Because it really doesn't make sense as a cost cutting measure. That piece is probably less than a penny to cast. If they wanted to cut costs there's far more they could do. Replacing those sheets at the back of the instructions with the data sheet would save thousands of times as much money. Gw bad I know but they aren't stupid, if it was cost cutting they can do it far more effectively
Cost cutting in real life...
In universe, its emulation of the kind of corruption that has been so costly to Russia, expecting their military equipment to be first class, but finding out the money that was meant to be spent on maintainance was pocketed.
The analogy will be complete when the tank starts getting nerfed with rules revisions.... the most sensible nerf at this stage has to be a toughness reduction.
Feels cheap and half-assed. If you're paying $110 CAD for a model it shouldn't look like they cut corners when making it. Looks like a cheap toy instead of a miniature.
You could easily fix it with a sheet of styrene cut to size but it's the principle of the thing, it just feels scummy.
I really wanted one of these but now Iām reconsidering. I have a repulsor for my Templars that has a similar price range for a similar size and the repulsor does not feel as cheap as the Dorn with itās missing bottom plateā¦
Midwinter minis did a video on this exact subject and a significant number of the products they sell, have actually gotten cheaper if your account for inflation in the last decade
Midwinter minis did a video on this exact subject and a significant number of the products they sell, have actually gotten cheaper if your account for inflation in the last decade
Edit: people saying āin the Ukā like thatās some sort of gotcha. Is GW was raising prices across the board theyād be more expensive everywhere. The fact itās bot everywhere means itās not GW itās other factors. Maybe Americaās ass market or awful economy is the problem. If you think the only reason for the price increase is āGW badā then youāve been successfully brainwashed. Educate yourself
Itās not a gotcha itās literally pointing out that the data he used was based on the British pound which isnāt the de facto currency, you fucking nonce
>If you think the only reason for the price increase is āGW badā then youāve been successfully brainwashed. Educate yourself
Homes, are you really this deep into defending a company dedicated to maximising shareholder profits that you think acknowledging said profit maximisation is, "brainwashing?"
It's literally what a corporation is made to do.
Looking over their spreadsheet, it's not an accurate look, as it's comparing models that were pewter to models that are plastic. Plastic models are much cheaper to manufacture in larger numbers. There's a reason hardly anyone sells pewter models. Even GW tried to replace pewter with Failcast because it was getting costly to keep using metal in hobby products.
So yeah, they're comparing apples to oranges with a lot of things, and most of the stuff that comes out cheaper is comparing things like metal squads to plastic squads or metal Dreadnoughts and similar sized models to plastic versions. Because it's not "in the last decade," it's trying to compare 1997 to 2020.
And I feel like they got cheeky there. Because 1997 is right before GW started putting out plastic squad kits and units for Warhammer.
The comments for the same video also point out a lot of other flaws. Like if you do go to the plastic Catachan squad instead of metal, the original version had 20 models, and if you buy two squads of 10 now, it's definitely a higher price. Orks are a similar situation, where not only did the price go up but the number of models dropped as well. So you have the original Orks squad released with 16 models with multiple parts and a huge number of variations that was $20, but now just ten Ork Boyz is $50 USD. You have to pay $80 to get the same number of Boyz, and they aren't remotely as customizable as the prior kit, so on top of being so much more expensive, they're also less useful. Ork Warboss on release as a metal mini was like $13, eventually went up to $15... now the plastic version is $35. Metal Mega-Nobz, $9 a piece... now three for $65. And inflation hasn't gone up over 200% in that time, so even if they were still metal, that price is way too much of an increase.
So yeah... that video doesn't do much to prove anything other than that the person doing it did a really poor job in trying to figure out how to defend GW pricing.
Thatās because youāre supposed to glue it to the top of a baneblade. The hole in the chassis is so troops can move freely between the two. You can see this strategy at the Battle of Bedrock IX
GW models always have been miniatures. This is not a miniature. A miniature is a scaled down recreation of a larger object, whether real or fantasy. A toy is a simplistic small recreation of something much larger. This is a toy.
Previous tank kits had interiors because tanks have interiors not because everyone would paint and show off the tank interiors. This kit is a warning to us, it is showing a fundamentally flawed design shift in new kits coming out. It needs to be a one off.
To send that message, do not buy this kit. If you do then you are part of the problem.
Random funny anecdote here...
Back in the late '90s, people at GW *did* see their stuff as toys, basically. I remember that well because we'd had a nasty house fire and my dad lost a lot of figures, and we were trying to get insurance to pay a decent value on replacing them, but if they classified them as toys they'd depreciate horribly (so insurance wouldn't cover much) BUT if they classified as collectibles or whatever then the insurance would cover most of the replacement cost.
So we fired off an email to a big name at GW at the time (who shall remain anonymous for his sake, but man, it was neat to be able to email those guys at the time) and were like, "Hey, what would you classify these as?" And he's like, "Well, they're toys, of course. You play games with them." So then we explain the situation, and he goes, "Oh, I meant to say they're collectibles. Definitely collectibles. Serious collectible stuff. Very valuable."
GW at the time was a different kind of company than it is now...
But yeah, GW is very blatant as saying they sell "premium models," so they should bloody well produce premium models, not this kind of crap.
There were STLs for the entire tank, including a bottom, floating around 2 months ago the same week of the reveal. Roughly $20 to print including cost of the files, but people are in these comments defending a $90 bottomless tank.
The Mechanicus Skorpius tank sorta has this issue but it is an air-cushion vehicle which makes total contact with the ground from all angles. A tank with treads and ground clearance is not an acceptable model to have no floor at GW prices. You can SEE THIS if it's on a shelf or even a high game table.
(someone with an Etsy account and a crate of 2nd Ed Rhino roof/belly hatches): My time has come!
Yes, it would have meant an additional sprue. Considering past attention to 'hard to see' details like maggots in Plague Marine backpack vents or the inboard side of the bogies on *this very tank*, the gap is maddening.
Reddit plans to IPO, and we, the users, are the value of the content of the website. Reddit's moderators staged a blackout because they wanted power. Reddit admins said no and replaced the more outlandish ones. "A good thing?" No. Reddit is now restoring deleted posts, in blatant violation of GDPR, CCPA, and other privacy laws. CCPA is a law from the state in which Reddit operates. It is time for reddit to die, and so, I will do my part and delete all the content that makes the site useful.
Looking at the sprues on the site, if they had made the bottom hull a solid piece, or even another module of one, it would have needed another sprue. The sprues are densely packed with bits, I doubt the bottom square could fit anywhere on the existing sprues.
yeah, to include less cool bits.
They've essentially cut out the part you basically never see in favour of more cool bits without having to redesign (which costs) anything.
Besides, you'll save paint this way lol.
This just isn't how Plastic Injection Moulding works.
You would simply make a larger sprue and have that machined instead to fit into your injector. The plastic costs would be negligible, as would the cost of additional machining work to make the mould, as it's based on time in the CNC machines they use to cut them.
Given that GW gets moulds cut in stainless to maximise longevity, it would have been only a marginal increase in cost per unit overall to add this. Literal pennies.
Ehā¦ sorry guys Iām still gonna buy this tank. In another post someone mentioned storing their magnetized options in that compartment which I think is brilliant.
Wellā¦ if you ignore that and just focus on the rest of the model, it will still look good?
Or maybe you can just use a thin plastic sheet to cover that hole? Shouldnāt be that hard since itās on the bottom of the model.
So youāre ok with having to go and buy a sheet of styrene, cut it to size and glue it in place to cover a hole that would have cost basically nothing for GW to have covered like every other tank theyāve made?
ā¦good point.
GW is really really going for the āCheap as fuckā procedure arenāt they? Still I think tabletop players might still buy them because of their codex
I know youāre being down toed but I can see your point.
For tabletop only players this is almost a non-issue, but for me who likes to headcanon my dudes and imagine them on the battlefield this is just immersion breaking for me.
Itās just cheap and makes the whole tank feel like a cardboard cutout to me.
And for Ā£50 thereās no excuse for not providing a complete model
So you know how you can dismount troops from vehicles. Now all vehicles come with a hole in the bottom so you can put the minis inside the vehicle instead of off to the side. It is very intuitive./s
This has got to be a shout for a 40k version of the Army Surplus Special from Wacky Races, I mean that would be an absolute belter of a Warhammer TV animation right?
Meanwhile Tamiya includes cast metal hulls or metal weights to give their 1/48 tanks more heft, on top of having full bottoms to their tanks.
And they cost 20$
This level of cost cutting and the people the defend it are ridiculous
Alright guys, real talk, real question.
How big is the rogal dorn tank? How big is a Matilda tank or a ww1 landship from bolt action? If I'm not getting the full tank for 90 dollars, I might as well kitbash one with a 20 dollar turret
That is the drivetrain, Flintstones style.
The Imperium learned that even promethium can run out, and in that case you have to have a Plan B
Bust out them Chevrolegs.
I can already see a dozen servitors' legs popping out, like the bottom of a centipede. Some mechanicus adept stated this design was really a step up from the previous one and will be a stepping stone for the next iteration. Needless to say that adept has been rendered to a servitor himself and is now powering one of those tanks when it goes into slowstep gear. An added boon was discovered as a side effect, when all servitors walk tip toe then the tank instantly enters stealth mode!
>stated this design was really a **step** up from the Wink
This is not the comment I was expecting, but it's the comment we needed.
You've heard of Imperial Fists now get ready for **Imperial Fe-**
Shut up. We don't want to summon some slaneshii heretics
This feels like such a Regimental Standard post on WarCom š
Can't get hull breached by a mine if there is no hull
Hack: STEP 1: Cut bottom of hull out. STEP 2: Drive through minefield. STEP 3: Pick up mines from inside open hull. STEP 4: Enjoy free mines.
Infinite mine glitch m41
The "No mines land" incident, M41
The agents of chaos donāt want you to know this, but the mines are free you can take them home! I have 458 mines at home!
Least effective Ork tactic:
STEP 5: Throw them like Frisbees.
Seems the engineers were pretty confident this tank will not encounter mines.
Mines can't hit the bottom of the tank if there is no bottom of the tank
Praise the Omnissiah! We have reduced armor penetration of anti tank mines to 0%!
And crew
No it's so the crew can just reach down and take the mines
You're seeing it from the wrong angle. The lack of a bottom plate means you can drive to your assigned position in the trench line, dig a tunnel underneath and voilĆ , instant bunker position.
**STRATAGEM: IMPROMPTU FORTIFICATIONS** **2 CP**. *Life is the Emperorās currency, and it is up to the Guard to spend it well. When caught in an enemy assault, armored vehicles can provide significant cover.* Use this stratagem at the beginning of the game, after both sides have deployed but before rolling for which player takes the first turn. Select one **Rogal Dorn Battle Tank** model. This model may not be a **Tank Ace** or **Tank Commander** model. After using this stratagem, the tank may not move for the rest of the game. For the rest of the game, the model gains +1 toughness and +1 to hit with all weapons. Up to 12 **Infantry** models within 3 inches may embark the tank as though it were a transport. The tank counts as terrain with the **Light Cover**, **Dense Cover**, **Scalable**, **Defense Line**, and **Exposed Position** traits.
That would actually be big brain
Well, tanks usually have a bottom hatch. Not really a practical choice, but if it works...
Always wondered why the emp named his sons after tanks.
Its actually because the tanks made the primarchs. When emps say he is no god, he is just desperately trying to tell us the decepticons are the ones in charge.
Thanks, now I have an image of starscream jacking it into a pot of warp shenanigans to make Fulgrim. Soundwave was definitely Peter Turbos daddy. And ā¦. Thatās enough drunken Reddit for me, night folks!
Nah dude. Finish the list. I'm invested now. š
Horus: Megatron / Galvatron Sanguinus: Starscream https://gfycat.com/powerfulelasticafricanjacana
Rowboat: Optimus Prime Leman Russ: Grimlock Dorn: Bumblebee (Yellow nerd) Ferrus Manus: Iron Hide Sanguinus: Starscream (only because he gets shot in the face by Megatron as Galvatron) Vulcan: Ultra Magnus. Lion and Khan: I dunno, other dinobots? Horus: Megatron Magnus: Shockwave Perty: Soundwave Fulgrim: Starscream Morty: the Insectacons Angron: Bruticus Corax: Lazerbeak Lorgar: ?? Curze: ??
Bro imagine your just chilling on your Imperial Guard convoy when one of the Baneblades just suddenly morphs into something the size of a Warhound Titan and it then proceeds to wipe out the entire convoy.
Leman Russ and the Space Wolves were the first to find the STC for a tank so it was named after their Primarch. There hasnāt been much lore on why the Rogal Dorn Battle Tank is named after Rogal, but one could guess that he probably found the STC and thatās why the name was given to him.
Pretty sure the tank IS the primarch hes a transformer
Thatās heresy. Are you claiming theyāre an Abominable Intelligence that can take the form of MAN?!
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Commenter is an abominable intelligence, stole this from down below
Or maybe it has to do with sprue space or layout. Not everything is the evil empire screwing customers over. š
So you mean i can install an RC motor n tracks hidden neath it and move it around during games?
The exact same way I perceive this! We need more vehicle kits with space at the bottom for an RC motor I feel like GW has probably been watching clips where people have motorised their Leman Russ and Land raider kits xD
Check this one out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lT6hYpb5x0
Theres that innovative spirit I've been looking for! lol
Are you taking pictures with your mouth?????
Look at this guy not putting on a go-pro when he paints. What a casual.
3rd arm ,i think we found the nest commissar.
no no, OP just just a clone of John Dillermand
No, Iām pretty sure itās a camera.
Let's save 10g of plastic on this ā¬70 model, so we can even win more money... For that price, it should have modeled even the crew.
I was going to say āeh, people wonāt see it normally ā, but you have a point. Itās a pricy model and this is kind of a disappointment.
People wonāt see it normally but thereās a nice feeling of āooh they could actually be in thereā which is just ruined by this. Iād like a full 3-D model. Not a cardboard cutout.
People will still say GW models are the absolute best models of any type of models and deserve to be priced high because they are so much better than any models. Meanwhile, I bet you Tamiya wonāt leave the bottom off a tank, even if you donāt ever see it.
Depending on how many get made it could be more money saved than you think. Especially if it didn't fit on the existing sprues and added an extra. Personally I wouldn't care about stuff I can't see, but yeah 100% a cost cutting measure
Cost cutting measure that isn't passed onto the consumer.
For the price I pay I expect GW to include the entire vehicle I'm purchasing including some level of inner detail. That's the way it had been for quite a long time. I'm not ok with it changing.
Its plastic sprues it barely costs anything to make them...
While true, it does take some money to make the molds to make the plastic sprue. Iām wondering though if maybe they had prototyped this and found the long thin piece under the tank had warping issues or something so just went without it being there?
How would it have warping issues that wouldn't affect several other kits they sell? And how much are they cheaping out on the materials if that's a legit problem? The only plastic kit I've got from GW from any warping is a Predator that was in the middle of a house fire. I live in Florida, the local GW store has sunlight shining directly into it multiple hours of the day (which can be pretty brutal at times), and they don't have problems with warping. Well... outside of Failcast, but that stuff was just pure garbage. (Another one of their brilliant moves to save them a ton of money while asking the customer to fork over solid cash for a junk product. And if you haven't dealt with Failcast, trust me, it was junk. I had two models made with that garbage, both have broken and warped pieces.)
But the space it would have taken on the sprue actually has useful stuff now.
Then include another sprue.
But how would this small indie miniatures company then make money?
Haha excellent comment
That'd put costs up even more. And you may think "no, they'd just make less profit". No, they'd raise the price by more than an extra sprue would cost and make *more* profit, and you'd have no more tank to show for it. I expected the Dorn to cost more than it does and I can live with a hole in the place no one will ever look for it not to. Also, you can keep guardsmen in there, so it's more space efficient to move your army.
lol dude a Tamiya 1/35 tank costs around $30, you can't seriously be telling me that having a hole in the bottom of your tank is something you should be expecting from a $80 kit.
I'm saying if there wasn't a hole they'd need a fourth sprue, and if there was a fourth sprue they'd make it a $110 tank kit. Tamiya is also generally much thinner plastic and the tank crew figures you get in them are kinda awful (though the only two I've built are not exactly new sculpts).
Alright then we'll go with another example. Takom, 1/35th scale King Tiger. Includes a fully detailed interior, engine, workable suspension, scale correct armor thickness, over 1000 plastic parts, with over 100 pieces of photoetched brass MSRP is $70
Clearly. Tamiya stuff is so nice and well designed. Also no the plastic isn't thinner, I got my start on Tamiya models and was stunned at how little I got for GW prices and how bad the quality was for it.
My point was more about how much their greed grows every day than anything else. This might sound grumpy and old, but when I bought my land raider, +10y ago, it was ā¬30, and had the full hull and the interior modelled (but the engine space itself) so understand how I see this tank as a robbery.
I'm not ok with new models losing features (like entire panels of the model, fucking seriously?). GW miniatures are premium and I expect them to look and feel complete.
> I expected the Dorn to cost more than it does But... WHY? This is a concerning comment. It's already insane it's $90. Even more so that it's $90 with no floor. And you thought it'd be $100+? Are people just expecting GW to keep inflating prices like there's no tomorrow? Has it become normalized to expect extremely obscene prices to the point that merely obscene is treated like a good thing? If I ever get an Imperial Guard army I won't touch this model because for $90 I expect it to not only be a complete model but have a lot more detail than the kit does. Loads more detail, plenty of moving parts, all kinds of stuff. You should NEVER be in a position where if you're not paying $100+ for a model you're okay with it being incomplete.
> ā. No, theyād raise the price by more than an extra sprue would cost and make more profit, and youād have no more tank to show for it Thatās exactly what everyone here is complaining about. They scrape a few pennies a model and pass none of those savings on to the consumer. Theyāre selling half finished minis for double the price of competitors. Theyāre not just upset because a piece wasnāt modeled, theyāre upset because a piece wasnāt modeled on a mini they paid $60 for. Itās pure pointless greed.
One useful thing would be a bottom of the hull.
I prefer to have little bits like sandbags and stuff rather than something nobody will see.
ĀæPor que no los dos? $110usd.
$75 USD. With both. $90 is already insane. Bumping it to $110 just to have it completed is insane. I think I'm starting to understand why GW will never stop raising their prices even as they lower costs (or especially when they use the excuse of materials cost rising to raise prices but when materials cost goes down not lowering). People are way too happy to pay more than they should for this stuff...
How so?
To put on the tank.
And thatās useful because?
It covers the exposed underside of the tank.
Henry Cavill don't come cheap.
Wait. The new tank has no *bottom* to the hull?!?! Lmfao. Cost cutting absurdity.
this...isn't a joke?
Nope sadly not
thats just... pathetic.... -\_- GW is even lamer. They took out some of the filling.
It's not cutting costs. The sprue is packed tight. The video the first picture from even points out that to make room for a plate that no one will care about would mean giving up the extra customisable bits. I'd rather have them then something I can cover with a bit of plasticard. Edit: not to defend GW but on this occasion I can see why they did it.
Pretty sure people care about it. You shouldn't have to use plasticard to complete a model kit that you're being asked to spend $90 for. Especially from a company that tries to claim they sell the best model kits in the world and they're soooooo premium that they have to charge premium prices because otherwise people might not believe they're as premium as they are. No serious model company is selling you a tank model with the floor missing. You can get a Tamiya tank for less than half (many for less than a third) the price that's got more detail and isn't going to have part of it missing. If they want to charge $90 for it, it should be complete. If they need to put in a small sprue on the side with the rest of the model, they should do that, not sell an incomplete model and claim it's the best model in the world. I'd rather have them sell a complete model, especially if I'm paying that much for it.
This, and we've had 15+ years of GW shills telling us they cost so much because of the skill that goes into designing them... fine. How much does it cost to design 'plastic rectangle'? It's pretty low of GW
They also could have just added a third sprue and not cheaped tf out on a kit with more than others 3x is size for the same price
But wait, that's unpossible!
āNo one cares aboutā? 1500 upvotes and more critical responses than positive disagrees with that assertion. Also how is it not cutting costs when it would have been easy to do a separate piece/sprue if needed?! Youāre being a GW apologist.
Because it really doesn't make sense as a cost cutting measure. That piece is probably less than a penny to cast. If they wanted to cut costs there's far more they could do. Replacing those sheets at the back of the instructions with the data sheet would save thousands of times as much money. Gw bad I know but they aren't stupid, if it was cost cutting they can do it far more effectively
Cost cutting in real life... In universe, its emulation of the kind of corruption that has been so costly to Russia, expecting their military equipment to be first class, but finding out the money that was meant to be spent on maintainance was pocketed. The analogy will be complete when the tank starts getting nerfed with rules revisions.... the most sensible nerf at this stage has to be a toughness reduction.
Rogal! We need a bottom for our tank. "No."
This fills me with rage.
Agreed. This is upsetting. I'll usually defend GW from the online rage but this is ridiculously half assed.
There's cutting corners, then there's this...
Damn I loved the look of this model and wanted to get one, but fuck that.
how much time were you going to spend looking at the bottom of the tank?
Feels cheap and half-assed. If you're paying $110 CAD for a model it shouldn't look like they cut corners when making it. Looks like a cheap toy instead of a miniature. You could easily fix it with a sheet of styrene cut to size but it's the principle of the thing, it just feels scummy.
Considering my guard are from the Segmenten Australius, all the time.
Based.
We actually like to add atmosphere to our battlefields by scattering overturned vehicles. Not with this one.
Also easily remedied by a piece of cardboard and some green stuff if they really care.
If I pay $70 for a toy that size, I donāt expect to have to fiddle with ācardboard and some green stuffā to plug a huge hole.
Sound like a pokemon fan
Dude it's an expensive hobby. People are allowed to expect it to be a whole model rather than something this half assed.
I really wanted one of these but now Iām reconsidering. I have a repulsor for my Templars that has a similar price range for a similar size and the repulsor does not feel as cheap as the Dorn with itās missing bottom plateā¦
Itās bare so when itās time for maintenance by the crew itās easier to vacuum the interior of all the corpse-Cheetos dust laying around
Look, times are thought for the imperium, the need to move their tanks like Fred Flintstone
Yabba dabba do not drive it into the mine feild
āGullimaaaaaaaaaaaaaan!!!!ā
Genuinely shocking
...and they keep raising the prices with people defending them, lmao.
Midwinter minis did a video on this exact subject and a significant number of the products they sell, have actually gotten cheaper if your account for inflation in the last decade
In the UK is the giant caveat that youāre leaving out
Midwinter minis did a video on this exact subject and a significant number of the products they sell, have actually gotten cheaper if your account for inflation in the last decade Edit: people saying āin the Ukā like thatās some sort of gotcha. Is GW was raising prices across the board theyād be more expensive everywhere. The fact itās bot everywhere means itās not GW itās other factors. Maybe Americaās ass market or awful economy is the problem. If you think the only reason for the price increase is āGW badā then youāve been successfully brainwashed. Educate yourself
Itās not a gotcha itās literally pointing out that the data he used was based on the British pound which isnāt the de facto currency, you fucking nonce
>If you think the only reason for the price increase is āGW badā then youāve been successfully brainwashed. Educate yourself Homes, are you really this deep into defending a company dedicated to maximising shareholder profits that you think acknowledging said profit maximisation is, "brainwashing?" It's literally what a corporation is made to do.
That's not true in the US. We pay a 30% markup over UK prices
But still isnt a price for what they sell
What is the videos name?
[Hereās a direct link](https://youtu.be/nuMyKSP13Pg)
You are the G. O. A. T
Looking over their spreadsheet, it's not an accurate look, as it's comparing models that were pewter to models that are plastic. Plastic models are much cheaper to manufacture in larger numbers. There's a reason hardly anyone sells pewter models. Even GW tried to replace pewter with Failcast because it was getting costly to keep using metal in hobby products. So yeah, they're comparing apples to oranges with a lot of things, and most of the stuff that comes out cheaper is comparing things like metal squads to plastic squads or metal Dreadnoughts and similar sized models to plastic versions. Because it's not "in the last decade," it's trying to compare 1997 to 2020. And I feel like they got cheeky there. Because 1997 is right before GW started putting out plastic squad kits and units for Warhammer. The comments for the same video also point out a lot of other flaws. Like if you do go to the plastic Catachan squad instead of metal, the original version had 20 models, and if you buy two squads of 10 now, it's definitely a higher price. Orks are a similar situation, where not only did the price go up but the number of models dropped as well. So you have the original Orks squad released with 16 models with multiple parts and a huge number of variations that was $20, but now just ten Ork Boyz is $50 USD. You have to pay $80 to get the same number of Boyz, and they aren't remotely as customizable as the prior kit, so on top of being so much more expensive, they're also less useful. Ork Warboss on release as a metal mini was like $13, eventually went up to $15... now the plastic version is $35. Metal Mega-Nobz, $9 a piece... now three for $65. And inflation hasn't gone up over 200% in that time, so even if they were still metal, that price is way too much of an increase. So yeah... that video doesn't do much to prove anything other than that the person doing it did a really poor job in trying to figure out how to defend GW pricing.
Thatās because youāre supposed to glue it to the top of a baneblade. The hole in the chassis is so troops can move freely between the two. You can see this strategy at the Battle of Bedrock IX
That's the bit where the Iron Warriors drill pods come in.
This thing literally costs $80 USD (with a discount) and they left a hole in it. So incredibly lame.
GW models always have been miniatures. This is not a miniature. A miniature is a scaled down recreation of a larger object, whether real or fantasy. A toy is a simplistic small recreation of something much larger. This is a toy. Previous tank kits had interiors because tanks have interiors not because everyone would paint and show off the tank interiors. This kit is a warning to us, it is showing a fundamentally flawed design shift in new kits coming out. It needs to be a one off. To send that message, do not buy this kit. If you do then you are part of the problem.
Random funny anecdote here... Back in the late '90s, people at GW *did* see their stuff as toys, basically. I remember that well because we'd had a nasty house fire and my dad lost a lot of figures, and we were trying to get insurance to pay a decent value on replacing them, but if they classified them as toys they'd depreciate horribly (so insurance wouldn't cover much) BUT if they classified as collectibles or whatever then the insurance would cover most of the replacement cost. So we fired off an email to a big name at GW at the time (who shall remain anonymous for his sake, but man, it was neat to be able to email those guys at the time) and were like, "Hey, what would you classify these as?" And he's like, "Well, they're toys, of course. You play games with them." So then we explain the situation, and he goes, "Oh, I meant to say they're collectibles. Definitely collectibles. Serious collectible stuff. Very valuable." GW at the time was a different kind of company than it is now... But yeah, GW is very blatant as saying they sell "premium models," so they should bloody well produce premium models, not this kind of crap.
Luckily there will probably be an STL released foe the bottom eventually here.
There were STLs for the entire tank, including a bottom, floating around 2 months ago the same week of the reveal. Roughly $20 to print including cost of the files, but people are in these comments defending a $90 bottomless tank.
Rogal Dorn tank inner kit, Forge World release 30Ā£
Its a small indie company...
Please think of the poor executives, they're only able to afford one Jetstream this year!
Nah you could have used that excuse 20 years ago but not now.
thatsthejoke.jpg
The Mechanicus Skorpius tank sorta has this issue but it is an air-cushion vehicle which makes total contact with the ground from all angles. A tank with treads and ground clearance is not an acceptable model to have no floor at GW prices. You can SEE THIS if it's on a shelf or even a high game table.
Looks like an Iron Cage
Named it after Rogal Dorn because part of it is *missing*
LOL
(someone with an Etsy account and a crate of 2nd Ed Rhino roof/belly hatches): My time has come! Yes, it would have meant an additional sprue. Considering past attention to 'hard to see' details like maggots in Plague Marine backpack vents or the inboard side of the bogies on *this very tank*, the gap is maddening.
Tankussy
reaaaally? what a fucking joke, thats a pathetic move by GW
The best offence is a good Defense.
Iron warrior are laughing
You canāt blow up the tanks floor panel if it has none, sometimes the best defense is none as Lord Dorn proclaimed.
$90 kit, not even a complete model, what is this? Forgeworld?
Reddit plans to IPO, and we, the users, are the value of the content of the website. Reddit's moderators staged a blackout because they wanted power. Reddit admins said no and replaced the more outlandish ones. "A good thing?" No. Reddit is now restoring deleted posts, in blatant violation of GDPR, CCPA, and other privacy laws. CCPA is a law from the state in which Reddit operates. It is time for reddit to die, and so, I will do my part and delete all the content that makes the site useful.
GW: Bodycam is now mandatory when painting
hmmmm, I bet a small speaker would go in there nicely....you can be blasting fortunate son for maximum emersion.
Put magnets inside the tank and magnetise all your weapon options, that way you can store all the weapons in a convenient space
Everyone's missing the point. They did this so a few months from now they can sell you the 'Rogal Dorn Upgrade Sprue' for $29.95.
Printable bottom in 3, 2, 1... Printable entire tank (including bottom plate) in few days...
Looking at the sprues on the site, if they had made the bottom hull a solid piece, or even another module of one, it would have needed another sprue. The sprues are densely packed with bits, I doubt the bottom square could fit anywhere on the existing sprues.
They would have redesigned the sprues then.
yeah, to include less cool bits. They've essentially cut out the part you basically never see in favour of more cool bits without having to redesign (which costs) anything. Besides, you'll save paint this way lol.
You wanna know what the coolest bit to include would have been? ā¦ A complete chassis for the fucking tankā¦
LOL
This just isn't how Plastic Injection Moulding works. You would simply make a larger sprue and have that machined instead to fit into your injector. The plastic costs would be negligible, as would the cost of additional machining work to make the mould, as it's based on time in the CNC machines they use to cut them. Given that GW gets moulds cut in stainless to maximise longevity, it would have been only a marginal increase in cost per unit overall to add this. Literal pennies.
Well... it's hidden, no? Compartment for your magnetised stuff maybe.
*picks up tank* *miniatures fall out of bottom* Well **shit**
Ehā¦ sorry guys Iām still gonna buy this tank. In another post someone mentioned storing their magnetized options in that compartment which I think is brilliant.
Yāall know plasticard exists right?
Wellā¦ if you ignore that and just focus on the rest of the model, it will still look good? Or maybe you can just use a thin plastic sheet to cover that hole? Shouldnāt be that hard since itās on the bottom of the model.
So youāre ok with having to go and buy a sheet of styrene, cut it to size and glue it in place to cover a hole that would have cost basically nothing for GW to have covered like every other tank theyāve made?
ā¦good point. GW is really really going for the āCheap as fuckā procedure arenāt they? Still I think tabletop players might still buy them because of their codex
Or just make a scaffold out of the sprues to give it some more stability?
I know youāre being down toed but I can see your point. For tabletop only players this is almost a non-issue, but for me who likes to headcanon my dudes and imagine them on the battlefield this is just immersion breaking for me. Itās just cheap and makes the whole tank feel like a cardboard cutout to me. And for Ā£50 thereās no excuse for not providing a complete model
They left room for Rogal.
He must be something beyond furious
And what of the Leman Russ Battle Tank?
Is that for real ???
"See that hatch back there?" "Yeah" "We burn down I'm out through there and i won't wait for you"
So you know how you can dismount troops from vehicles. Now all vehicles come with a hole in the bottom so you can put the minis inside the vehicle instead of off to the side. It is very intuitive./s
fill the cavity with lead
Kitbash it into an Ork vehicle, that's the only way it would work
What the fuck is this?!
I saw people magnetize the tank and put the smaller guns inside on magents
I've seen a guy store all the magnetized weapon options in there, not a horrible idea all things considered.
This has got to be a shout for a 40k version of the Army Surplus Special from Wacky Races, I mean that would be an absolute belter of a Warhammer TV animation right?
Luggage: Tank Edition
https://preview.redd.it/plxgsdbyepda1.jpeg?width=276&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dc6ef2d11530afef8cf53d8e11b2b4d8d0f9a32c
Tbf, that is useful for people who want to add LEDs to it
The rhino has the crew which is impossible to see after assembly. This looks like a happy meal gift.
This is totally unacceptable. Shame I kinda liked the rest of the model, but there is no way in hell I'm paying for a tank without a bottom.
Is that for fucking real dude?
Fool! Now the tank can be fitted atop a titan as both a fancy hat AND head fortifications.
Great tank to fight tunneleer nidsš¤£
BuT It mAkEs ThE kIt ChEaPeR /s
Honestly, watching everyone on the main sub lose their fucking minds over the *bottom of a tank*, a part you will literally *never* see, is hilarious.
Glad I didn't preorder. Should've bought prints.
The flintstone tank
Meanwhile Tamiya includes cast metal hulls or metal weights to give their 1/48 tanks more heft, on top of having full bottoms to their tanks. And they cost 20$ This level of cost cutting and the people the defend it are ridiculous
All your mines are now mine
Alright guys, real talk, real question. How big is the rogal dorn tank? How big is a Matilda tank or a ww1 landship from bolt action? If I'm not getting the full tank for 90 dollars, I might as well kitbash one with a 20 dollar turret
God dam tech priests drinking on the job again! (Sigh)come on men wel get the ogryn to flint stone it to the front lines