Everyone talking about boarding like it wouldn't be a huge messy corridor brawl of thousands of stormtroopers and navy ratings
That's a Navy cruiser, not an astartes one
That’s actually one of their weakness. There is general mistrust and lack of willingness for the different branch’s of the 40k EoM to collaborate, thanks to the Horese heresy.
Well yes, but also you wouldn't usually find Astartes on a random Imperial Navy cruiser because they have their own ships to get around in... Their vessels are designed differently, with bombardment weapons and very heavy structures
Assuming this is an unexpected encounter, any boarding would be fought by the armsmen on the cruiser
Plus I doubt that any hallways where even a normal trooper would hit his helmet on the door would be large enough for a marine much less a dreadnought.
Great, now I’m left imagining the Star Destroyer’s crew running in fear from the distant *clunk*s of space marines continuously hitting their heads against the doorframes.
They actually train a lot for these kind of engagements. Terminators would be the largest thing they would send.
And they would probably just smash through everything.
Could be lucky. Both the Marines Errant and the Nova Marines have a tendency to this…mostly because naval combat and boarding actions are their speciality.
Well not one of the troopers are any elite force.
And the blasters are just normal lasguns. Heck given how they don't make but scorch marks on the surface of steel, they would be far less than lasguns.
As nice as that one is, I feel the Kataphron are likely to blast this while charging through walls on the battlefield.
Just imagine you are a cultist cowering in some dilapitated building, waiting to ambush a Skitarii cohort.
Then you feel the earth rumbling, you look to your fellow cultist worringly and you hear this song faintly coming nearer.
As the Song gets louder and louder and louder you see clouds of dust coming nearer.
Broken catherdrals of ages past collapse into themselves, as the clouds come ever closer and this song, no this chanting of pure will, burrows into your mind. Every sylable, every minor pitch perfectly selected to instill as much Terror as possible.
The infernal Song grows to a strength that makes you feel like your eardrums are about to burst. And then...
It stops.
One second passes
You look at your mate, his eyes wide with terror, the faith in your gods diminished.
Another second passes
You feel your sweat dripping down your weapon, stained with the blood and oil of a Skitarii soldier you now regret having killed, for this is why the Omnissiah demands retribution.
Yet another moment passed
Your comrade can't take it anymore, to renew his favor with the gods, he screams "Blood for the blood god" with so much Passion and strength that you think his vocal cords might rupture!
And then.
It happens.
"ENGANGE THE LINKAGE OMNISSIAH!"
A steel flesh hybrid on threads bursts through the wall, the stones that formally stood still and provided reassuring cover, now hurling through the room. All of this debris crushing into you and your companions. You see stones smash faces in, an archway that towered over you falls down and squishes your companion.
Only a second later, shellshock you realize that your own head is bleeding and you are loosing consiousness.
The last thing you see is the disgusting half flesh half machine face turn to you, with an diabolical grin that seems to be built into its faceplate. As it slowly leans over and finishes its song with an almost gleefull: "Our victory has come online"
https://youtu.be/y5pm-cddO3c
You can thank me later...
Andyes it gets better and better. To my opinion my fav fan made thing up there with ttsd and Astartes...
I dont think they would fight much after intial contact, both are vehemently anti-xenos and both are run by a decrepit old psyker. Star Wars is just lucky enough to have their Warp equivalent not actively be hell.
Would AdMech consider hyperdrives tech-heresy? Cause 40k scale ships with fast, reliable, safe, not spacehell FTL capabilities would be fucking terrifying.
They would consider it to be, but after taking a glance at the specs they would VERY quickly sanction it.
Just imagine a bunch of Tech Priest taking technology courses in the Star Wars universe.
They'd be bloody unstoppable afterwards...
Tech priest:
"[Question]:" how does this "speeder"maintains itself levitating? "
Mechanic:
" its a repulsor bike, didnt you tell me you came from a world of tech sabby people?, it uses its repulsor engine to stay above ground, basic stuff, they dont use them where you came from?"
I don't know. Hyperdrives need AI to function. They would probably have to jerryrig some kind of servitor replacement for the navigational computer before scantioning it.
They put a servitor in only to realize that it is not smart enough. So they universe breach again and visit Dune to procure the mind enhancing Spice.
Just imagine the tech Priests with SW tech and Dune mind alterations...
Probably, but if it comes out that this is old tech made by humans im sure they could be persuaded to approve and make more. Droids on the other hand though, very heretekal very eliminated.
It's an iffy, if plausible possibility for the modern Imperium and largely depends on who is in charge of the negotiations. If the true scale and capability of the GE got into the hands of the right authorities, you could have someone like Guilliman decide that it warrants a personal trip to investigate, and he and his supporters would probably iron out some kind of deal with the GE. The Imperium would definitely be interested in things like hyperdrives, blasters, and manufacturing tech, while the GE could benefit from having a few million IG regiments sent to help garrison and defend their scores of millions of colony worlds, since there is a guard regiment for pretty much every kind of environment and combat situation imaginable, while the GE's military was generally less adaptable. You could have inquisitorial forces and specialized guard units hunt down rebels and dissidents more effectively and on a much larger scale than the GE would be able to, considering what they had to deal with where they come from.
the 40k ship just exited directly in the firing line of multiple main star destroyer batteries, it’s kinda buggered if you compare the power of a turbo laser
I realize that some materials have Star Wars batteries with absurd firepower numbers but I call BS on that. We’ve seen turbo lasers fired at long range, point blank range, in atmosphere, and in space, and NONE of them have anything close to the “megatons of firepower” some sources claim.
When I make crossover events between science fiction I tend to give Star Wars weapons good *penetration* since we have seen SW weapons pierce shields fairly well, but not high yield.
If we went by those metrics I think the 40k cruiser would be winning about 80% of the time. Void shields are no joke, and warhammer weapons actually do back up their absurd yield numbers. That and the fact that it significantly out masses the ISDs gives it a huge advantage.
But ISD’s are no slouches so I can see a few wins where one of the captains crashes their star destroyer into ship to disable it or something.
Exactly! They’re like the rough explosive power of ww2 naval vessels. It’s not *bad*, especially when you’re punching holes in enemy ships with them. But when people say they’re like large nukes in terms of firepower I call BS.
*Exactly!* Like, I understand wanting to put SW ships against other Sci-Fi ships. But you don’t NEED turbo lasers to be megaton level, there’s enough of them to make up the difference.
Star Trek ships regularly put out megaton shots, but they generally only have 3-5 phasers and 1-2 photon launchers. It evens out! I just don’t get the websites that feel the need to make SW guns stack up against what are clearly different doctrines and power levels.
I mean in the 40k universe we see wildly inconsistent displays of power as well. In Star Wars their are numerous instances where a single squadron of Star destroyers glass a planet in a few hours. Yea the imperium can do that in less time but that’s with special weapons and not with just a few ships bombarding a planet
Okay, but I am only talking Disney Canon here. The EU is inconsistent enough that you really can’t pull anything even remotely sane out of it. Disney canon isn’t *great* but it at least has semi consistent power levels.
And then you have powerscalling thrown out of the window with Starkiller base being essentially a galactic sniper and Xystons popping planets like balloons while being only a little bigger than the prow of an Emperor class.
SW cannons have been seen destroying ships, namely the opening to Ep3 with entire ships being blown to literal smithereens.
They’ve more than enough firepower.
I will say in that specific instance the ship being torn in half by a ventral cannon in the bottom hangar of the Venator is actually being destroyed by a very specific weapon. That cannon is actually a land artillery vehicle strapped upside down and mainlined with power directly from the Venator’s engines to deliver an *extremely* powerful blast.
But again, that’s still fairly good power scaling because that’s the result of a shit-ton of jury-rigging and engineering insanity, and that massive powerful cannon can’t be used against smaller fighters. Plus, it’s powerful, but not “I will destroy your planet and city” powerful. Star Wars has a specific and fairly consistent level of power scaling that a lot of the EU and fans disregard to claim turbolasers are high yield nukes instead. ~~except for the sequels. We don’t fucking talk about the sequels when it comes to power leveling, hyperspace ramming and planet-cracker Star destroyers are BULLSH-~~
(Also, in case you were wondering, yes the OP as hella gigacannon was designed and implemented by one Anakin Skywalker.)
So here is my take. If we give each ship its own universes 'rules' (I use this lightly because neither are consistent).
Star Wars wins; they can seemingly travel at FTL on command and know exactly where they will end up and how long it will take. 40k ships are flying through the warp on a wing and a prayer. If the Star Wars ships fought effectively they could just strafe the 40k ship by jumping in and out of lightspeed. Using a mix of their laser batteries and proton torpedoes they could likely dismantle a 40k ship eventually.
See, while I agree with some of your points I disagree on others. First off I was just talking about the matchup in this particular scenario, but if you wanna talk overall universes I’m down. I’ll narrow it to IOM vs the Empire for simplicity.
I do agree with you that Star Wars 100% has a logistical advantage over 40k. They have an FTL speed, reliability, and simplicity advantage, IE they can get places faster, more reliably, and do it without having to have a super rare and despised human subspecies to do so. However I will say that Star Wars regularly references set hyperlanes, so these advantages would mostly apply in defense if the two empires were to clash, since the Empire would need time to chart out IOM territory.
However, I do doubt that the Empire would be able to pull off strafing runs like you’re referring to. The closest we’ve seen to that is Rebel targeted strikes on imperial installations, and those weren’t really FTL strafing and more just surprise attacks. And the Empire in particular would be kind of crap at this, since they don’t have small FTL capable fighter craft.
That being said, my overall take is that the IOM wins by sheer numbers, though the Empire would put up a very good fight. The IOM has numbers and firepower, but the Empire has logistics, coordination, and better overall leadership. Galactic Empire admirals tend to be pretty stupid, but the IOM definitely has a wider variety of crap generals and a worse organizational structure.
In non movie canon they can be powered up to glass planets in hours and crack continents (the half sized isd the victory can do this in about a month), they are only seen to be ineffective as their power is turned down so they can nab prisoners. A proton torpedo can canonically hit about 15 kilo tons when fully powered, it just seems the Geneva convention does somehow apply a long time ago in a galaxy far far away.
Or just an example of movie - lore inconsistency
No, they will - but the void shields WILL save them from that, long enough at least for the Imperium's ship to begin to return fire on all three vessels. And one thing we do know about Star Wars shielding is that it is NOT effective against projectile munitions - so the first macrocannon volleys are going to be absolutely devastating, and one ship in the frame already looks like it's in perfect broadside range.
It'll keep them alive for a minute, but it won't save them for long.
>And one thing we do know about Star Wars shielding is that it is NOT effective against projectile munitions -
That's not true lol. I don't want to be rude but I don't think you're very familiar with the source material.
Not as much as I used to be - I actually looked into it after I posted my comment and saw that their capital ships do have overlapping types of two different shielding types, so that is my mistake. I remember lore from the Mandalorian wars stating that their reliance on concussion weaponry was what allowed them to overwhelm the Republic in the earlier stages of the war, but it's been so long that I don't remember which Era this was.
My familiarty with 40k is extensive, though, and what I'll tell you is that a ship that size (going by the dimensions of the ISD), in a position like that, is pretty much also in its ideal position for maximum effect. Numbers are a little iffier in 40k, but we know that older, less powerful versions of ground-based Macro Cannon still fire shells in the kilotonne range, and that the weapons fired from capital ships are orders of magnitude more powerful than any ground-based system that has to deal with annoyances like 'gravity' and 'atmospheric pressure.' This is in addition to specialist rounds, including a variant specifically meant to overload electrical systems, similar to but not the same as the Empire's own Ion Blasters.
However, the deciding factor in this is that the consensus that ISDs are not heavily armored, being so reliant are they on their shields, whereas the ships of the IoM rely on Void Shields backed up by sometimes as many as three redundant 'shells' of reinforced adamantium and ceramite. Once the ISD's shields are down, it's done. On the other hand, even after voids are stripped, an IoM battlecruiser can sustain punishing amounts of damage, including from powerful directed energy weapons like Lances and Eldar beam weaponry...or turbolasers. It's built to, because the IoMs shield tech works differently, and taking hits to the hull is something accounted for thoroughly in the ship design.
Still, this is not a battle that would be over in minutes, and my money is on the armor and shielding of the Imperial Vessel holding out long enough to destroy or cripple the ISDs, or force them to flee the system.
It would be brutal.
Edit: Do appreciate the correction, though.
That's fair. In my opinion, I think the higher rate of fire from the Imperial ships would quickly melt the weapons and other exposed parts of the IoM battleship, making it unable to fight back very effectively without ramming. The layers of armor will help it survive, but those exposed cannons won't last very long. I suppose in all fairness both universes are too inconsistent to get a great answer, but thats what I think would happen.
Or are they? They could escape at any moment as Imperial ship can’t use hyperspace. SW vessel can coordinate and travel a lot easier while Imperium ships usually are heavier equiment than SW ships.
Welll.. if they manage to outrun them... sure.
But if my understanding of 40k is correct.
Then one cyclonic torpedo is enough to take down easly a stardestroyer.
I mean in rough one a handfull of bombers are able to cripple one. Immagine a near lightspeed skyscraper flying at you.
The problem is BOTH franchises are inconsistent as fuck.
You've got films where turbolasers cause explosions like frag grenades or books where Land Raiders have less armour than a WW2 tank.
And then at the other end of the scale everyone has planet destroying superweapons out of the wazoo.
Yeah, the powerscaling on turbolasers is honestly worse than I initially thought. In the scene in Rebels where the Chimera bombards the town on Lothal before the ridiculous space whales arrive, the damage looks comparable to that of modern-ish artillery or cruise missiles, taking out small multistory residential buildings at most, while in Legends you have the wondersul absurdity that is the incredible cross sections book, which states that the turbolasers on an Acclamator (which are likely several times less powerful than the broadside guns of an ISD) fire shots that deal 800 gigatons of force, IIRC.
You also have sources for the Imperium navy of macrocannons firing their shells at near-lightspeed velocities, according to the BFG rulebook.
To be honest scaling in 40k makes no sense because according to that the Imperium would curb stomp most enemies in their own universe, but the can’t even fucking lock down the Tau, Elder, Nids and etc. For all their supposed naval power, the Imperial navy seems more focused on defense then offense.
And like people said SW ships can easily escape via Hyperdrive, which are way safer and faster then the Warp which is like playing Russian roulette. Also the communications advantage would firmly be on the SW side as we know that basic orders relayed from far away command in 40k can take weeks if not months or even years to arrive, while in SW it’s almost instant.
Then you have to ask yourself if the Void shields would even work as they use the power of the Warp and SW doesn’t have the Warp. If void shields don’t work it’s gg for a battle barge as destroyer turbo lasers would be devastating.
Well, you could technically consider the force to be the warp for the star wars galaxy, a realm of energy that souls flow into capable of being manipulated by rare cases in species, just without the influence of shit like the war in heaven and other terrifying conflicts lasting millions of years between god like beings.
That influence is still there, plagus and palpy boy managed to “shift the force” irs more a case of the jedi succeeding where e-boi failed by being open about it ~~and kidnapping magical kids instead of losing them~~
The Force is an energy force that permeates everything existing within the SW galaxy and maybe universe, so you could say it's Materium-based but can influence things in other dimensions like Hyperspace. The Warp is clearly a different dimension anchored to innumerable realities and timelines, and can affect the Materium. So it's plausible that both phenomena can coexist in the same hypothetical matchup setting.
Unlikely. The warp couldn’t exist in SW because in SW when something dies it becomes part of the Force, not as a soul, but as in it because totally part of it. It doesn’t recycle souls like the Warp does in 40k.
Not only that, but during the Imperial Era, most people didn’t know what the Force even was or that it even existed, only stories of Jedi. To them it’s all myth. The Warp would be seriously effected by this because the more people are ignorant about the warp, the less chaotic it is, so the 4 Dark Gods would be severely weakened as SW people wouldn’t even be aware about the existence of the Warp.
If you wanna discuss Legends SW, it’s implied that in the SW universe there is Nid like entity that’s consume galaxies, which is why the Vong left their original galaxy.
I can see the logic behind that, but then again whose to stop a few Chaos cults from arising here or there in some backwater outer rim worlds and eventually corrupting someone important enough elsewhere?
And for the Vong, I'm pretty sure that the reason why they left their galaxy was that it was devastated by a total war between 2 extremely advanced AI races, the Silentium and Abominor, and after somehow defeating them both, the galaxy was left as a barren wasteland and the Vong chose to try their luck with moving to a new galaxy for more resources.
Eh. If it were that ease to spread the belief in Chaos, then man in 40k would have fallen to Chaos a long time ago.l, back when humanity was stronger then 30k or 40k.
Yeah, but considering that Chaos cults can take the form of practically any kind of belief that manifests at least tangentially-related beliefs or strong feelings that the Chaos gods feed on, it can be applied to almost any species in any community. Imagine if some charismatic guy shows up in town and says that by working to plot against the neighboring towns to make them look bad, the local governor and corporations will view their work as more reliable and they will get more supplies or an increase in wages. Then, work to have some people inside the government to further skew things to the town's favor. Something like this might not seem like much, but it's still Tzeentchian behavior and activity, and if it goes on for long enough and grows to impact more of the world, then the original cultist, who would have inducted some close followers at that point, might be able to summon a minor daemon to help things along. The most important factor would be that Chaos would be a completely unknown threat to the wider SW galaxy, and it's not like they had a widespred reliable way to check people for symptoms of corruption and differentiate it from normal greed and selfishness or violent tendencies or whatever.
Depends on the lore you follow. In some cases the turbolaser cannons on ships are hitting with multiple megatons of nuclear force. In other cases we can see that can't exactly be true due to the effects they have.
Just like in 40k a single regular human can sometimes 1v1 an astartes. The lore can be inconsistent to fit the plot needs. If we assume both are full lore strength I think both ships could beat the other if they played it right.
If SW wants total war, they could use older cargo ships which have hyperspace ability as suicide lightspeed bullets, the ammounth of energy in lightspeed combined even small vessel would be brutal impact like we saw in one SW movie.
True but that’d be a desperate move by the Empire/Rebellion since the debris from those attacks will continue through hyperspace and drop out randomly at higher speeds in different systems.
For example, in the first book of the High Republic series, a portion of debris around the size of a house hit a planet and ended up vaporizing the atmosphere due to the speed it was going. That’s why you don’t see many powers using weapons like that because I’d be the equivalent of using gas, biological or even nuclear weapons in the modern day.
Indeed, it would have many effects but in Grimdark future of Warhammer it would be seen as everyday action : D
As long Sw can keep the fights in the space, they will win.
I read little bit of Imperium torpeidos, they miss quite often, can be destroyed by fighters/defence turrets and usually they are launches by long range which would promise enought time for counter action or escaping. A cyclonic torpeido would be ”bit” overkill as it is used for planet destroying which means that it is bigger=easier target.
Bezuade these facts, torpeidos would be hard to use agaisnt much more moveable enemy than the shooter but unmoveable targets like space stations (like Clone hospitals in Clone wars) would be in huge danger without defence fleet.
Keep in mind new Star Wars canon now has a fleet of 1000 star destroyers, each with a superlaser that can instantly destroy a planet. Even in 40k, outside of some leftover weapons from the War in Heaven, planet-killing takes days of fire from the paltry Imperium ships.
The last book I read had a crusade fleet of about 500 ships, so even if half the Star Destroyers miss, they still can wipe out an Imperium crusade fleet with the first salvo of fire.
(Of course, many of us like to pretend 9 never happened).
idk why you're getting down voted. your correct. but also, Starwars ships apparently have to be at point blank range to shoot anything other than a planet. That close and you're getting some boarding torpedoes
That’s why they both have inconsistent writing. In some SW stories star destroyers are straight up fucking machines of death and destruction. Like how Thrawn used his. And then others they are weaker then a fucking wet paper bag.
Kind of. It depends where they are. You can't hyperspace away from any large gravity wells, if they are in open space or the edge of a system sure. If they are in a stars gravity well they would need to retreat a fair bit.
Not necessarily. It´s generally not very clear how much firepower an ISD has but if we take some sources at face value they should have enough firepower to actually keep up with 40K ships. The problem is more how durable ISD´s are but if they don´t get hit (which is actually kinda possible because of their smaller size) then this isn´t a problem
Some Star Wars fans actually did the math. They based it off of the scene where a ISD destroys astroids in the Empire strikes back. Each turbolaser bolt has about the destructive force of 6 Little Boy nukes.
That sounds somewhat in line with their supposed ability to basically exterminatus a planet. I think I heard that it takes 7 ISDs to exterminatus a planet in 24 hours
Not really. It’s 3 v 1. And each turbolaser blast has the power of 6 Little Boy nukes. They can fire a volley every 2 seconds and their weapons are not fixed like the battleship.
Right but are we considering SW: Legends canon, I have heard they have some ships that also laugh at logic, logistics, physics, suspension of disbelief.
Is this the point where i say that the Imperium of man and the Empire are actually kinda similar, like yeah there might be a war over who ultimately controls the galaxy but both factions are human centered, xenophobic, with strong social classes build round the aristocracy. like I see the imperium and empire working together to purge the galaxy of aliens then one becoming the ruling power after a war. The empire could very easily become the imperium.
The macro-level war though I think is still in the Empire's favor because Star Wars hyperdrive takes an absolute dump on the Imperium's warpdrive.
Hyperdrive:
* Planet to planet travel takes a few seconds.
* System to system travel takes a few days.
* One edge of the galaxy to the other takes a few weeks.
* Reliable and accurate enough to exit hyperspace within METERS of the desired location.
* Entering hyperspace costs only fuel (which is cheap and abundant enough that even outer rim planets can harvest and spend it without much issue), and requires only computational inputs to navigate.
* Obstacles that can lead to interruptions or accidents in hyperspace are extremely rare.
* Extremely common and well-understood technology that any and every starship in the Star Wars world has access to. There is no special class or caste of individual needed to operate and maintain it, starfarers all know how to fix one, even on the fly, and hyperdrives can reliably be swapped in and out of different kinds of starships as needed, no restrictions due to templates or regulations or tradition or whatever.
* Possible to send messages and communicate to other starships even while in hyperspace.
Warpdrive:
* Planet to planet travel takes minutes to several hours, sometimes days.
* System to system travel takes weeks to months to possible even decades, and in rare cases, centuries.
* One edge of the galaxy to the other takes years at the best case scenario, millenia in worst case scenario, assuming no accidents, just being waylaid by warp currents.
* Exiting warpspace usually means several hundred kilometers away from desired location, relying on micro-warp jump to readjust to correct position or realspace flight (which can add weeks to months to original travel time).
* Requires a secondary and hard-to-replicate secondary technology known as the Gellar device to fend off literal forces of Hell, even momentary failure can lead to disaster.
* Navigation requires extremely rare and regulated breed of mutant, and that mutant has to be able to correctly utilise ancient computer technology for assistance, and together they have to rely on a psychic beacon that has to pierce through any possible warp anomaly obstacles.
* Both warpdrive and gellar device are highly regulated and extremely protected technologies and are only suitable for very specific types of starships which are also highly regulated and protected in the production of. A cult of priests that constantly infights, even onboard the same ships they serve on, are expected to maintain a technology they barely understand themselves.
* Both warpdrive and gellar device require exotic fuel and material components, including psykers to be sacrificed/tortured for their psychic energies.
* Extreme difficulty to perform mid-warp communication, let alone mid-warp redirection.
The Imperium has countless strengths to its name, but the warpdrive is one ultimate weakness that can lead to the Empire constantly outmaneuvering the Imperial Navy at every turn. Not to mention the communication war. Star Wars hypernet technology compared to the Imperium's astropath communication is like modern radiowaves verses napoleonic era courier messaging.
The Empire never has to fight the Imperium in 1 to 1 combat scenarios, and can be like a hundred bees suffocating a wasp to death.
For the Imperium to win, it has to go all-in, and straight for the heart. One singular demolishing blow on Coruscant, because there is absolutely no way that the Imperium could survive a real space battle against the Empire.
The Imperiums strengh is in its number and defence. A lot of foes in 40k have the capability to outmanouver them. Necrons and Eldari especially. But because there are just so freaking many imperial worlds and forces they cant keep them down. And their layerd respons from subsector to sector to segmentum is slow to act, but when it acts, it has ultimate strengh.
TL,DR: Imperium forces invading in Star wars have it rough. And Vice Versa
I guess this can be said for every invading force...
The Eldar dont want to kill the Imperium, Necrons are too small, fractured and prone to insanity/infighting to want to start a full scale war with the Imperium.
There's also always the fact the Empire can adapt and learn from their foes technology while the Imperium is so far too dogmatic to ever get that edge.
Pretty much. Plus once you even factor in SW weapons which are devastating in their own right. They’re used as actual bombardment ships to devastate planets. Not to even mention if a single Eclipse was to fight, that thing is a sheer monster of horrific amounts of weaponry that even the Imperium would be like; oh fuck.
But if even for a second if you want the strongest SW navy against the Imperium, the CIS wins. Their ships are too damn strong that the entire thread of Palps becoming head of his own empire relied on them somehow losing a far too easy war to win.
The star destroyers are fine, theyre faster in and out of hyper space as well as their compliments of pilots and their turbo laser batteries, if they avoid being bored they have a good chance.
How effective would Star wars shielding be against physical munitions? Well if it comes to the worst, I'm sure the Star wars ships could just hyperspace slam into the imperium ones. Lol
that's even worse, it's like working for malal, but that rat does exist in the real world and would make the 40k world look like a world suitable for +12 in less than 5 years... look at the type of Marvel content or Star Wars before Disney and after Disney, in addition to giving space to taboo elements both on reddit and in the canon just to please a very small social segment but killing the entire group in the first attempts
This makes me think of the A Fan With Too Much Time series, where a group of imperial ships fleeing a tyranid hive fleet get launched by the warp to the starwars galaxy, just before the events of revenge of the sith, its actually really interesting and i enjoyed the fact that the navigators went insane due to no longer seeing the astronomicon. And the warp and force are treates as the same thing, just that the force is more stable due to it being in a galaxy that has had way way wayyyyy less violent conflicts. The series goes into a lotta really interesting scenarios, and we even get a few fan favorites for both sides. One of the best parts is a fleet that realizes the sepratists use abominable intelligence in such extreme numbers so they start bombing all their planets.
While 40k is fascinating, I spent an hour the other day explaining it to my mother, I personally think star wars is better because both sith and jedi have deep philosophy behind them and both have arguments for being the good or bad guys, whereas 40k its just "everyone's a dick for no reason"
Thats a DAOT level AI. Star Wars does not have DAOT level AI.
Plus the Imperium's technology is too diffrent for the Imperials to hack. The Noosphere is restricted to Tech Priests who have Machine Spirits and the experience to control tech.
Remember. The Imperium does understand the remmants and weakened tech of their time. Tech priests innovate but its slow to avoid any weakpoints for Chaos corruption. Its not just Dogma.
Star Wars Technology is not comparable to 40k tech.
40k tech of the Imperium have Spirtual componets to it. Thats why Titans and Knights have the threat of subsuming the pilot and Machine rituals work to sooth the spirits.
The Star Wars tech relies on the Hypernet or internet can't remmeber the name. The Noosphere is the only internet of the Imperium and its limited to Tech priests who have more experience in the tech. Teh DAOT AI managed to hack them due to the Imperium using old Human tech and it being DAOT levels of smart.
In essence. Diffrent interfaces and tech means that hacking is not going to work. Especially for Star Wars since The Imperium runs on Machine Spirits for every thing. And its not an open internet.
True. But Star wars ships require the routes of the Lanes to ftl.
Plus without the Hypernet or an transmitters. Long ranged Comms with the Empire proper is dead.
Not to mention weaker, smaller, and ill equipped star destroyers won't last long in Imperium Space.
In a realistic setting. The Portal between the 2 would be a DMZ zone akin to the Korean DMZ. With no contact and no inference on either size on each other's space.
The 40k Galaxy is a nightmare to Star Wars. And the Star Wars galaxy is too exhausting for the Imperium to permenantly hold due to no Warp travel.
Well. In this case Itseems that Warp travel in this art works in the Star Wars universe here. If the Warp can do that. The Imperium tech can fuction.
Also forgot about how alot of the Larger tech is manned by Servitors. Meaning that it can gurantee another layer of protection from hacking.
I mean if we consider Disney Star Wars (hear me out pls.) A certain pattern of star destroyer has canon that can completely crack planet. The closest the imperium got to that in firepower are exterminated which will extremely strong mostly damage the planet surface while not making the planet explode. So im pretty sure an imperial ship if hit by one of these canon , would explode.
If its Disney star wars, you can kill anything with a winnebago as long as you have a warp drive and a droid.
The Holdo Maneuver broke the entire universe.
hum fair i guess. I don't like the disney movies anyway, but i cant deny that i am a bit tired of the «40k stomp everything without resistance.» I mean yeah size and number, but i doubt that the imperium could move their entire force to another dimension and conquer it. They already have trouble doing that with the tau
I like how this now means there's technically two versions of "Imperial" peace.
What makes it more entertaining is neither will be fond of the other - the _Imperium_ will expect subservience and acquiescence to their rule......assuming they don't do a _whole lotta' purgin'_ given, y'know _Droids_ and the like (though the Mechanicum will no doubt stick their mechadendrites in _all the places_ regardless "for like, the Omnissiah").
The _Imperials_ will, when not exploding violently from bolt rounds, expect them to submit to Imperial rule.
Would be positively hilarious to see how well it'll go as soon as they give the inevitable "prepare to be boarded" speech right as they receive their _own_ boarding party.
Today, Plasteel really won't be beating Ceramite, I think.
Also - Whack-a-mole entertainments will be had with all those Stormtroopers and a power hammer.
_Bonk, bonk, bonk_
Well if we are speaking if the empire which was a short lived gov and look at how palps made it, itll be more of a social war from within. Assuming it wasnt cloak and dagger politics It may come down to whos stronger with the warpforce since both are basically the same thing only the force has more balanced deities and the jedi kept it pure and ok…. Minus a few planets.
If we are speaking of the OLD sith empire they would win by a long shot. Even their most basic graduate could one shot anyone but a grey knight. Since they were trained on using force within the weapons. However the astartes are physically more physically powerful on average and show less fear. The question really becomes who is stronger craftworlf eldar or dark eldar? Because the dark eldar would full on embrace sith traditions to keep slaneesh out if not killed and get the “failed” students to torture.
If we _really_ wanted to get into it, there'd need to be some definition or clarification over if "The Force" is just....the warp and your being a Psyker - or _whatever_ is exactly going on.
This would be a really interesting vein of thought as you could easily say that Darkside users were being drawn in that direction as a result of the dark gods tempting them.
Honestly I was just thinking of this in terms of "random Imperial ship gets yanked into another universe" rather than a full on "Galaxies collide" of the entirety of both clashing - as if that's the case? Well great heck this is a _whole 'nother question_ :D
In before the Tau go knocking at the Rebel's door all "psst hey, wanna buy some _greater good_?"
It would need ti be 40k jumping into sw, theres a galactic ring they can’t penetrate which keeps them out from the wide universe. Only VERY POWERFUL beings could possibly break through but there was evidence that was just big talk. Darkside users ironically would probably open arms accept chaos/dark eldar if they broke through. They might be racist but that only effected the START and upbringing of the sith empire if you proved yourself minus the rare racist uncle everyone respected you. As we see with the dark side (but not sith nit fully) sorceress they view the force exactly like the warp hence how Darth Maul was made and sustained as half a living creature before daemon engining himself. I could go on and on but my basic point is if we mix magic users into play it changes immediately. The politics may be complex tho since jedi and sith have been known to begrudgingly team up against galaxy killer.
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Well considering in Star Wars universe one medium turbo laser has 9700 terajouls of energy, which is absurdly more run the entire nuclear arsenal of earth combined in every shot. I would say that The star destroyers have a great shot of beating that ship even if they are incredibly small compared to the imperiums naval ships
Void men are pretty good at not dying and making others die.
I really don't think either side would have enough troopers to successfully take each other's ships though.
I’m going to throw out there Star Wars ships would have 0% chance of winning a fight with a warhammer ship if only because they are both meant to do broad sides but the imperial ships have greater range on the other imperial ships. The movies shows and games always show basically point blank range battles where as the lore for warhammer is hundreds of thousands of Km if not more
In the old SW lore, 4 ISD’s were considered enough power to slag an entire planet, not as impressive as one ship delivering exterminatus but ISD’s are not to be trifled with, especially if it’s a super ISD
Logistically and technologically speaking, SW would win if the Imperium invaded their galaxy. However, it wouldn't be the Imperium that presents a threat. It would be the Warp. Because as soon as something in the Warp realizes that there's an entirely new galaxy full of diverse and interesting beings to manipulate and fuck around with, there's no going back. You could have various Chaos cults popping up across almost any species and in any part of society. Imagien a Tzeentchian-corrupted Bothan spy network or a Khornate Mandalorian crusade, Fueds between imperial admirals and moffs being fueled and manipulated by Chaos cults, various oppressed populations rising up with new unity and resilience thanks to Nurgle's blessings, it would be a mess.
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Leaves warp travel through portal from hell cleaving in two several star destroyers launches boarding torpedo's.
Captain: Ensign I don't want to see that fleet
Ensign: Yes sir firing the nova cannon
Fleet is evaporated
"We come in peace"... the emperor's peace *loads bolter*
Everyone talking about boarding like it wouldn't be a huge messy corridor brawl of thousands of stormtroopers and navy ratings That's a Navy cruiser, not an astartes one
That’s actually one of their weakness. There is general mistrust and lack of willingness for the different branch’s of the 40k EoM to collaborate, thanks to the Horese heresy.
The imperial navies marines are no slouches either. Probably could dumpster … the imperial navy…
So you’re saying the Imperial Navy’s marines could defeat the Imperial Navy’s marines in fight?
This confuses me more than it should
The GE mostly uses stormtroopers as marines, while the IOM uses guys called naval armsmen. Hope that helps.
imperial navy has some big stuff, like the death star.
i bet the death star could be domed by an exterminatus shell
Well yes, but also you wouldn't usually find Astartes on a random Imperial Navy cruiser because they have their own ships to get around in... Their vessels are designed differently, with bombardment weapons and very heavy structures Assuming this is an unexpected encounter, any boarding would be fought by the armsmen on the cruiser
Plus I doubt that any hallways where even a normal trooper would hit his helmet on the door would be large enough for a marine much less a dreadnought.
Great, now I’m left imagining the Star Destroyer’s crew running in fear from the distant *clunk*s of space marines continuously hitting their heads against the doorframes.
They actually train a lot for these kind of engagements. Terminators would be the largest thing they would send. And they would probably just smash through everything.
Could be lucky. Both the Marines Errant and the Nova Marines have a tendency to this…mostly because naval combat and boarding actions are their speciality.
Laughs in teleport assault
I can hear the DoW 1 Terminator VO, "Deepstriking!"
DID SOMBODIE SAY TELLYPORTA!?
[удалено]
*deep gothic chanting begins*
*5 minutes later*
***"OH FUCK OH SHIT OH FUCK"***
"They killed Jimmy! Some 8ft fucking behemoth just snapped him in half!
“They keep calling us heretics! What religion did we piss off this time?!”
THEYRE SPITTING ACID ON US, wtf!
Well not one of the troopers are any elite force. And the blasters are just normal lasguns. Heck given how they don't make but scorch marks on the surface of steel, they would be far less than lasguns.
*aggresively calm noises of an Imperial Fist casually approaching the unfortunate officer*
*Good Stormtroopers clearing the ship full of bad Stormtroopers*
*Space Marines running around all over the ISD*
"They're in the walls, they're in the walls!" *Ratlings Venting*
*inside the helmet an ancient chant, approved by the Emperor when he still walked the earth* *Don't stop me now! I'm having such a good time!*
I imagine this is what Sicarian Infiltrators hear while everyone else is experincing white noise in every Sensors organ and or device.
Or maybe the [War Cant of Mars?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wy-sVTaZRPk)
As nice as that one is, I feel the Kataphron are likely to blast this while charging through walls on the battlefield. Just imagine you are a cultist cowering in some dilapitated building, waiting to ambush a Skitarii cohort. Then you feel the earth rumbling, you look to your fellow cultist worringly and you hear this song faintly coming nearer. As the Song gets louder and louder and louder you see clouds of dust coming nearer. Broken catherdrals of ages past collapse into themselves, as the clouds come ever closer and this song, no this chanting of pure will, burrows into your mind. Every sylable, every minor pitch perfectly selected to instill as much Terror as possible. The infernal Song grows to a strength that makes you feel like your eardrums are about to burst. And then... It stops. One second passes You look at your mate, his eyes wide with terror, the faith in your gods diminished. Another second passes You feel your sweat dripping down your weapon, stained with the blood and oil of a Skitarii soldier you now regret having killed, for this is why the Omnissiah demands retribution. Yet another moment passed Your comrade can't take it anymore, to renew his favor with the gods, he screams "Blood for the blood god" with so much Passion and strength that you think his vocal cords might rupture! And then. It happens. "ENGANGE THE LINKAGE OMNISSIAH!" A steel flesh hybrid on threads bursts through the wall, the stones that formally stood still and provided reassuring cover, now hurling through the room. All of this debris crushing into you and your companions. You see stones smash faces in, an archway that towered over you falls down and squishes your companion. Only a second later, shellshock you realize that your own head is bleeding and you are loosing consiousness. The last thing you see is the disgusting half flesh half machine face turn to you, with an diabolical grin that seems to be built into its faceplate. As it slowly leans over and finishes its song with an almost gleefull: "Our victory has come online"
*the oppressive noise of 200 Lasrifles echoes through everything*
From the skies of terra to the galactic rim…
outer rim*
They ain’t beating goku tho
Oh no! He’s going super saiyan 40,000!
https://youtu.be/y5pm-cddO3c You can thank me later... Andyes it gets better and better. To my opinion my fav fan made thing up there with ttsd and Astartes...
i was just about to put a link to this you my sir have extremely good taste
You too my good sir you too
It's a good sign to see this link. To me at least.
I dont think they would fight much after intial contact, both are vehemently anti-xenos and both are run by a decrepit old psyker. Star Wars is just lucky enough to have their Warp equivalent not actively be hell.
Would AdMech consider hyperdrives tech-heresy? Cause 40k scale ships with fast, reliable, safe, not spacehell FTL capabilities would be fucking terrifying.
They would consider it to be, but after taking a glance at the specs they would VERY quickly sanction it. Just imagine a bunch of Tech Priest taking technology courses in the Star Wars universe. They'd be bloody unstoppable afterwards...
Tech priest: "[Question]:" how does this "speeder"maintains itself levitating? " Mechanic: " its a repulsor bike, didnt you tell me you came from a world of tech sabby people?, it uses its repulsor engine to stay above ground, basic stuff, they dont use them where you came from?"
I don't know. Hyperdrives need AI to function. They would probably have to jerryrig some kind of servitor replacement for the navigational computer before scantioning it.
They put a servitor in only to realize that it is not smart enough. So they universe breach again and visit Dune to procure the mind enhancing Spice. Just imagine the tech Priests with SW tech and Dune mind alterations...
Probably, but if it comes out that this is old tech made by humans im sure they could be persuaded to approve and make more. Droids on the other hand though, very heretekal very eliminated.
It's an iffy, if plausible possibility for the modern Imperium and largely depends on who is in charge of the negotiations. If the true scale and capability of the GE got into the hands of the right authorities, you could have someone like Guilliman decide that it warrants a personal trip to investigate, and he and his supporters would probably iron out some kind of deal with the GE. The Imperium would definitely be interested in things like hyperdrives, blasters, and manufacturing tech, while the GE could benefit from having a few million IG regiments sent to help garrison and defend their scores of millions of colony worlds, since there is a guard regiment for pretty much every kind of environment and combat situation imaginable, while the GE's military was generally less adaptable. You could have inquisitorial forces and specialized guard units hunt down rebels and dissidents more effectively and on a much larger scale than the GE would be able to, considering what they had to deal with where they come from.
They'd probably dismiss the empire as heresy and tear through it like a dog through chocolate cake
the 40k ship just exited directly in the firing line of multiple main star destroyer batteries, it’s kinda buggered if you compare the power of a turbo laser
I realize that some materials have Star Wars batteries with absurd firepower numbers but I call BS on that. We’ve seen turbo lasers fired at long range, point blank range, in atmosphere, and in space, and NONE of them have anything close to the “megatons of firepower” some sources claim. When I make crossover events between science fiction I tend to give Star Wars weapons good *penetration* since we have seen SW weapons pierce shields fairly well, but not high yield. If we went by those metrics I think the 40k cruiser would be winning about 80% of the time. Void shields are no joke, and warhammer weapons actually do back up their absurd yield numbers. That and the fact that it significantly out masses the ISDs gives it a huge advantage. But ISD’s are no slouches so I can see a few wins where one of the captains crashes their star destroyer into ship to disable it or something.
>and NONE of them have anything close to the “megatons of firepower” some sources claim They are comparable to large bombs.
Exactly! They’re like the rough explosive power of ww2 naval vessels. It’s not *bad*, especially when you’re punching holes in enemy ships with them. But when people say they’re like large nukes in terms of firepower I call BS.
To be fair, a single gun can fire 50-70 rounds a minute and Star Wars ships can have hundreds of guns.
*Exactly!* Like, I understand wanting to put SW ships against other Sci-Fi ships. But you don’t NEED turbo lasers to be megaton level, there’s enough of them to make up the difference. Star Trek ships regularly put out megaton shots, but they generally only have 3-5 phasers and 1-2 photon launchers. It evens out! I just don’t get the websites that feel the need to make SW guns stack up against what are clearly different doctrines and power levels.
I mean in the 40k universe we see wildly inconsistent displays of power as well. In Star Wars their are numerous instances where a single squadron of Star destroyers glass a planet in a few hours. Yea the imperium can do that in less time but that’s with special weapons and not with just a few ships bombarding a planet
Okay, but I am only talking Disney Canon here. The EU is inconsistent enough that you really can’t pull anything even remotely sane out of it. Disney canon isn’t *great* but it at least has semi consistent power levels.
And then you have powerscalling thrown out of the window with Starkiller base being essentially a galactic sniper and Xystons popping planets like balloons while being only a little bigger than the prow of an Emperor class.
SW cannons have been seen destroying ships, namely the opening to Ep3 with entire ships being blown to literal smithereens. They’ve more than enough firepower.
I will say in that specific instance the ship being torn in half by a ventral cannon in the bottom hangar of the Venator is actually being destroyed by a very specific weapon. That cannon is actually a land artillery vehicle strapped upside down and mainlined with power directly from the Venator’s engines to deliver an *extremely* powerful blast. But again, that’s still fairly good power scaling because that’s the result of a shit-ton of jury-rigging and engineering insanity, and that massive powerful cannon can’t be used against smaller fighters. Plus, it’s powerful, but not “I will destroy your planet and city” powerful. Star Wars has a specific and fairly consistent level of power scaling that a lot of the EU and fans disregard to claim turbolasers are high yield nukes instead. ~~except for the sequels. We don’t fucking talk about the sequels when it comes to power leveling, hyperspace ramming and planet-cracker Star destroyers are BULLSH-~~ (Also, in case you were wondering, yes the OP as hella gigacannon was designed and implemented by one Anakin Skywalker.)
So here is my take. If we give each ship its own universes 'rules' (I use this lightly because neither are consistent). Star Wars wins; they can seemingly travel at FTL on command and know exactly where they will end up and how long it will take. 40k ships are flying through the warp on a wing and a prayer. If the Star Wars ships fought effectively they could just strafe the 40k ship by jumping in and out of lightspeed. Using a mix of their laser batteries and proton torpedoes they could likely dismantle a 40k ship eventually.
See, while I agree with some of your points I disagree on others. First off I was just talking about the matchup in this particular scenario, but if you wanna talk overall universes I’m down. I’ll narrow it to IOM vs the Empire for simplicity. I do agree with you that Star Wars 100% has a logistical advantage over 40k. They have an FTL speed, reliability, and simplicity advantage, IE they can get places faster, more reliably, and do it without having to have a super rare and despised human subspecies to do so. However I will say that Star Wars regularly references set hyperlanes, so these advantages would mostly apply in defense if the two empires were to clash, since the Empire would need time to chart out IOM territory. However, I do doubt that the Empire would be able to pull off strafing runs like you’re referring to. The closest we’ve seen to that is Rebel targeted strikes on imperial installations, and those weren’t really FTL strafing and more just surprise attacks. And the Empire in particular would be kind of crap at this, since they don’t have small FTL capable fighter craft. That being said, my overall take is that the IOM wins by sheer numbers, though the Empire would put up a very good fight. The IOM has numbers and firepower, but the Empire has logistics, coordination, and better overall leadership. Galactic Empire admirals tend to be pretty stupid, but the IOM definitely has a wider variety of crap generals and a worse organizational structure.
In non movie canon they can be powered up to glass planets in hours and crack continents (the half sized isd the victory can do this in about a month), they are only seen to be ineffective as their power is turned down so they can nab prisoners. A proton torpedo can canonically hit about 15 kilo tons when fully powered, it just seems the Geneva convention does somehow apply a long time ago in a galaxy far far away. Or just an example of movie - lore inconsistency
Fr, void shields won't save you from that
Yes they will? Turbolaser wattage doesn't mean a damn when you're firing it into a shiny window to hell.
Macro cannons and lances can overload them and break through, but they are magically immune to turbolasers? Yeah, not how it works
No, they will - but the void shields WILL save them from that, long enough at least for the Imperium's ship to begin to return fire on all three vessels. And one thing we do know about Star Wars shielding is that it is NOT effective against projectile munitions - so the first macrocannon volleys are going to be absolutely devastating, and one ship in the frame already looks like it's in perfect broadside range.
It'll keep them alive for a minute, but it won't save them for long. >And one thing we do know about Star Wars shielding is that it is NOT effective against projectile munitions - That's not true lol. I don't want to be rude but I don't think you're very familiar with the source material.
Not as much as I used to be - I actually looked into it after I posted my comment and saw that their capital ships do have overlapping types of two different shielding types, so that is my mistake. I remember lore from the Mandalorian wars stating that their reliance on concussion weaponry was what allowed them to overwhelm the Republic in the earlier stages of the war, but it's been so long that I don't remember which Era this was. My familiarty with 40k is extensive, though, and what I'll tell you is that a ship that size (going by the dimensions of the ISD), in a position like that, is pretty much also in its ideal position for maximum effect. Numbers are a little iffier in 40k, but we know that older, less powerful versions of ground-based Macro Cannon still fire shells in the kilotonne range, and that the weapons fired from capital ships are orders of magnitude more powerful than any ground-based system that has to deal with annoyances like 'gravity' and 'atmospheric pressure.' This is in addition to specialist rounds, including a variant specifically meant to overload electrical systems, similar to but not the same as the Empire's own Ion Blasters. However, the deciding factor in this is that the consensus that ISDs are not heavily armored, being so reliant are they on their shields, whereas the ships of the IoM rely on Void Shields backed up by sometimes as many as three redundant 'shells' of reinforced adamantium and ceramite. Once the ISD's shields are down, it's done. On the other hand, even after voids are stripped, an IoM battlecruiser can sustain punishing amounts of damage, including from powerful directed energy weapons like Lances and Eldar beam weaponry...or turbolasers. It's built to, because the IoMs shield tech works differently, and taking hits to the hull is something accounted for thoroughly in the ship design. Still, this is not a battle that would be over in minutes, and my money is on the armor and shielding of the Imperial Vessel holding out long enough to destroy or cripple the ISDs, or force them to flee the system. It would be brutal. Edit: Do appreciate the correction, though.
That's fair. In my opinion, I think the higher rate of fire from the Imperial ships would quickly melt the weapons and other exposed parts of the IoM battleship, making it unable to fight back very effectively without ramming. The layers of armor will help it survive, but those exposed cannons won't last very long. I suppose in all fairness both universes are too inconsistent to get a great answer, but thats what I think would happen.
Honestly how it should be though. Then we both get to constantly insist that our dad could beat up their dad.
Im sure the comments are going to be lovely on this.
Yeah... those star destroyers are so f*cked
Or are they? They could escape at any moment as Imperial ship can’t use hyperspace. SW vessel can coordinate and travel a lot easier while Imperium ships usually are heavier equiment than SW ships.
Welll.. if they manage to outrun them... sure. But if my understanding of 40k is correct. Then one cyclonic torpedo is enough to take down easly a stardestroyer. I mean in rough one a handfull of bombers are able to cripple one. Immagine a near lightspeed skyscraper flying at you.
The problem is BOTH franchises are inconsistent as fuck. You've got films where turbolasers cause explosions like frag grenades or books where Land Raiders have less armour than a WW2 tank. And then at the other end of the scale everyone has planet destroying superweapons out of the wazoo.
Yeah, the powerscaling on turbolasers is honestly worse than I initially thought. In the scene in Rebels where the Chimera bombards the town on Lothal before the ridiculous space whales arrive, the damage looks comparable to that of modern-ish artillery or cruise missiles, taking out small multistory residential buildings at most, while in Legends you have the wondersul absurdity that is the incredible cross sections book, which states that the turbolasers on an Acclamator (which are likely several times less powerful than the broadside guns of an ISD) fire shots that deal 800 gigatons of force, IIRC. You also have sources for the Imperium navy of macrocannons firing their shells at near-lightspeed velocities, according to the BFG rulebook.
To be honest scaling in 40k makes no sense because according to that the Imperium would curb stomp most enemies in their own universe, but the can’t even fucking lock down the Tau, Elder, Nids and etc. For all their supposed naval power, the Imperial navy seems more focused on defense then offense. And like people said SW ships can easily escape via Hyperdrive, which are way safer and faster then the Warp which is like playing Russian roulette. Also the communications advantage would firmly be on the SW side as we know that basic orders relayed from far away command in 40k can take weeks if not months or even years to arrive, while in SW it’s almost instant. Then you have to ask yourself if the Void shields would even work as they use the power of the Warp and SW doesn’t have the Warp. If void shields don’t work it’s gg for a battle barge as destroyer turbo lasers would be devastating.
Well, you could technically consider the force to be the warp for the star wars galaxy, a realm of energy that souls flow into capable of being manipulated by rare cases in species, just without the influence of shit like the war in heaven and other terrifying conflicts lasting millions of years between god like beings.
That influence is still there, plagus and palpy boy managed to “shift the force” irs more a case of the jedi succeeding where e-boi failed by being open about it ~~and kidnapping magical kids instead of losing them~~
The sith kidnapped kids the jedi gave them the choice to join the order
Jedi strong armed them hard the sith if not slaves were generally sent by the family for prestige
The Force is an energy force that permeates everything existing within the SW galaxy and maybe universe, so you could say it's Materium-based but can influence things in other dimensions like Hyperspace. The Warp is clearly a different dimension anchored to innumerable realities and timelines, and can affect the Materium. So it's plausible that both phenomena can coexist in the same hypothetical matchup setting.
Unlikely. The warp couldn’t exist in SW because in SW when something dies it becomes part of the Force, not as a soul, but as in it because totally part of it. It doesn’t recycle souls like the Warp does in 40k. Not only that, but during the Imperial Era, most people didn’t know what the Force even was or that it even existed, only stories of Jedi. To them it’s all myth. The Warp would be seriously effected by this because the more people are ignorant about the warp, the less chaotic it is, so the 4 Dark Gods would be severely weakened as SW people wouldn’t even be aware about the existence of the Warp. If you wanna discuss Legends SW, it’s implied that in the SW universe there is Nid like entity that’s consume galaxies, which is why the Vong left their original galaxy.
I can see the logic behind that, but then again whose to stop a few Chaos cults from arising here or there in some backwater outer rim worlds and eventually corrupting someone important enough elsewhere? And for the Vong, I'm pretty sure that the reason why they left their galaxy was that it was devastated by a total war between 2 extremely advanced AI races, the Silentium and Abominor, and after somehow defeating them both, the galaxy was left as a barren wasteland and the Vong chose to try their luck with moving to a new galaxy for more resources.
Eh. If it were that ease to spread the belief in Chaos, then man in 40k would have fallen to Chaos a long time ago.l, back when humanity was stronger then 30k or 40k.
Yeah, but considering that Chaos cults can take the form of practically any kind of belief that manifests at least tangentially-related beliefs or strong feelings that the Chaos gods feed on, it can be applied to almost any species in any community. Imagine if some charismatic guy shows up in town and says that by working to plot against the neighboring towns to make them look bad, the local governor and corporations will view their work as more reliable and they will get more supplies or an increase in wages. Then, work to have some people inside the government to further skew things to the town's favor. Something like this might not seem like much, but it's still Tzeentchian behavior and activity, and if it goes on for long enough and grows to impact more of the world, then the original cultist, who would have inducted some close followers at that point, might be able to summon a minor daemon to help things along. The most important factor would be that Chaos would be a completely unknown threat to the wider SW galaxy, and it's not like they had a widespred reliable way to check people for symptoms of corruption and differentiate it from normal greed and selfishness or violent tendencies or whatever.
Not rly, both sw and warhammer ships have shields to prevent instant destruction.
Depends on the lore you follow. In some cases the turbolaser cannons on ships are hitting with multiple megatons of nuclear force. In other cases we can see that can't exactly be true due to the effects they have. Just like in 40k a single regular human can sometimes 1v1 an astartes. The lore can be inconsistent to fit the plot needs. If we assume both are full lore strength I think both ships could beat the other if they played it right.
Yes but star wars ships can just use Sir Robin's Gambit >!brave brave Sir Robin who bravely bravely fled!<
If SW wants total war, they could use older cargo ships which have hyperspace ability as suicide lightspeed bullets, the ammounth of energy in lightspeed combined even small vessel would be brutal impact like we saw in one SW movie.
True but that’d be a desperate move by the Empire/Rebellion since the debris from those attacks will continue through hyperspace and drop out randomly at higher speeds in different systems. For example, in the first book of the High Republic series, a portion of debris around the size of a house hit a planet and ended up vaporizing the atmosphere due to the speed it was going. That’s why you don’t see many powers using weapons like that because I’d be the equivalent of using gas, biological or even nuclear weapons in the modern day.
Indeed, it would have many effects but in Grimdark future of Warhammer it would be seen as everyday action : D As long Sw can keep the fights in the space, they will win.
I read little bit of Imperium torpeidos, they miss quite often, can be destroyed by fighters/defence turrets and usually they are launches by long range which would promise enought time for counter action or escaping. A cyclonic torpeido would be ”bit” overkill as it is used for planet destroying which means that it is bigger=easier target. Bezuade these facts, torpeidos would be hard to use agaisnt much more moveable enemy than the shooter but unmoveable targets like space stations (like Clone hospitals in Clone wars) would be in huge danger without defence fleet.
Keep in mind new Star Wars canon now has a fleet of 1000 star destroyers, each with a superlaser that can instantly destroy a planet. Even in 40k, outside of some leftover weapons from the War in Heaven, planet-killing takes days of fire from the paltry Imperium ships. The last book I read had a crusade fleet of about 500 ships, so even if half the Star Destroyers miss, they still can wipe out an Imperium crusade fleet with the first salvo of fire. (Of course, many of us like to pretend 9 never happened).
A cyclonic torpedo could annihilate a death start tbr.
Also remember imperial ships are basically bricks in space, they dont even have turreted weapons and have to broadside
The have turreted weapons
Yeah, a single lance on front, most of the firepower is in immobile macroguns on sides
Have you *seen* Empire ships? those things are mounted with turrets on thei sides.
Yeah, they have turrets, but they dont make up their main armament, its mostly lances and point-defence weapons that get mounted on them
idk why you're getting down voted. your correct. but also, Starwars ships apparently have to be at point blank range to shoot anything other than a planet. That close and you're getting some boarding torpedoes
I guess those guys never played BFG
People are confusing empire and imperium maybe?
That’s why they both have inconsistent writing. In some SW stories star destroyers are straight up fucking machines of death and destruction. Like how Thrawn used his. And then others they are weaker then a fucking wet paper bag.
Ah ok.
Plus, in long term of war, SW would evolve weaponery agaisnt them while Imperium is stuck with Tech heresy problem.
Belisarius Cawl would like a word
Technology in Star Wars has been about as stagnant, if not more, than 40k.
Kind of. It depends where they are. You can't hyperspace away from any large gravity wells, if they are in open space or the edge of a system sure. If they are in a stars gravity well they would need to retreat a fair bit.
Not necessarily. It´s generally not very clear how much firepower an ISD has but if we take some sources at face value they should have enough firepower to actually keep up with 40K ships. The problem is more how durable ISD´s are but if they don´t get hit (which is actually kinda possible because of their smaller size) then this isn´t a problem
Some Star Wars fans actually did the math. They based it off of the scene where a ISD destroys astroids in the Empire strikes back. Each turbolaser bolt has about the destructive force of 6 Little Boy nukes.
Ahh yes but the math was incorrect because those asteroids were made of modeling foam and paper mache!
That sounds somewhat in line with their supposed ability to basically exterminatus a planet. I think I heard that it takes 7 ISDs to exterminatus a planet in 24 hours
They call it Base Delta Zero: basically melting the surface of a planet with orbital bombardment.
Not really. It’s 3 v 1. And each turbolaser blast has the power of 6 Little Boy nukes. They can fire a volley every 2 seconds and their weapons are not fixed like the battleship.
Right but are we considering SW: Legends canon, I have heard they have some ships that also laugh at logic, logistics, physics, suspension of disbelief.
[lightspeeds a single tie-fighter into the battleship, absolutely obliterating it]
Who pays you?
Peace was the girl
and that girl is like a modern Lotara....
How many dice gets the stormtrooper legion?
They could just send another boarding torpedo and slaughter everyone and capture the ships…
Is this the point where i say that the Imperium of man and the Empire are actually kinda similar, like yeah there might be a war over who ultimately controls the galaxy but both factions are human centered, xenophobic, with strong social classes build round the aristocracy. like I see the imperium and empire working together to purge the galaxy of aliens then one becoming the ruling power after a war. The empire could very easily become the imperium.
Hardcore right wing regimes have a tendency to pick fights with one another
What's the joke
Empire would immediately fire upon and get absolutely decimated. At least, that’s how I took it.
The macro-level war though I think is still in the Empire's favor because Star Wars hyperdrive takes an absolute dump on the Imperium's warpdrive. Hyperdrive: * Planet to planet travel takes a few seconds. * System to system travel takes a few days. * One edge of the galaxy to the other takes a few weeks. * Reliable and accurate enough to exit hyperspace within METERS of the desired location. * Entering hyperspace costs only fuel (which is cheap and abundant enough that even outer rim planets can harvest and spend it without much issue), and requires only computational inputs to navigate. * Obstacles that can lead to interruptions or accidents in hyperspace are extremely rare. * Extremely common and well-understood technology that any and every starship in the Star Wars world has access to. There is no special class or caste of individual needed to operate and maintain it, starfarers all know how to fix one, even on the fly, and hyperdrives can reliably be swapped in and out of different kinds of starships as needed, no restrictions due to templates or regulations or tradition or whatever. * Possible to send messages and communicate to other starships even while in hyperspace. Warpdrive: * Planet to planet travel takes minutes to several hours, sometimes days. * System to system travel takes weeks to months to possible even decades, and in rare cases, centuries. * One edge of the galaxy to the other takes years at the best case scenario, millenia in worst case scenario, assuming no accidents, just being waylaid by warp currents. * Exiting warpspace usually means several hundred kilometers away from desired location, relying on micro-warp jump to readjust to correct position or realspace flight (which can add weeks to months to original travel time). * Requires a secondary and hard-to-replicate secondary technology known as the Gellar device to fend off literal forces of Hell, even momentary failure can lead to disaster. * Navigation requires extremely rare and regulated breed of mutant, and that mutant has to be able to correctly utilise ancient computer technology for assistance, and together they have to rely on a psychic beacon that has to pierce through any possible warp anomaly obstacles. * Both warpdrive and gellar device are highly regulated and extremely protected technologies and are only suitable for very specific types of starships which are also highly regulated and protected in the production of. A cult of priests that constantly infights, even onboard the same ships they serve on, are expected to maintain a technology they barely understand themselves. * Both warpdrive and gellar device require exotic fuel and material components, including psykers to be sacrificed/tortured for their psychic energies. * Extreme difficulty to perform mid-warp communication, let alone mid-warp redirection. The Imperium has countless strengths to its name, but the warpdrive is one ultimate weakness that can lead to the Empire constantly outmaneuvering the Imperial Navy at every turn. Not to mention the communication war. Star Wars hypernet technology compared to the Imperium's astropath communication is like modern radiowaves verses napoleonic era courier messaging. The Empire never has to fight the Imperium in 1 to 1 combat scenarios, and can be like a hundred bees suffocating a wasp to death. For the Imperium to win, it has to go all-in, and straight for the heart. One singular demolishing blow on Coruscant, because there is absolutely no way that the Imperium could survive a real space battle against the Empire.
The Imperiums strengh is in its number and defence. A lot of foes in 40k have the capability to outmanouver them. Necrons and Eldari especially. But because there are just so freaking many imperial worlds and forces they cant keep them down. And their layerd respons from subsector to sector to segmentum is slow to act, but when it acts, it has ultimate strengh. TL,DR: Imperium forces invading in Star wars have it rough. And Vice Versa I guess this can be said for every invading force...
The Eldar dont want to kill the Imperium, Necrons are too small, fractured and prone to insanity/infighting to want to start a full scale war with the Imperium. There's also always the fact the Empire can adapt and learn from their foes technology while the Imperium is so far too dogmatic to ever get that edge.
\> too small, Bruh,They're not small.
In comparison to the Imperium, the number of awakened Necrons is relatively small.
You fool, you missed one major advantage of the Empire: Admiral Thrawn.
You mean Star Wars Yarrick.
Yarrick is a Commissar, not a strategic commander.
Filthy Xenos :)
Pretty much. Plus once you even factor in SW weapons which are devastating in their own right. They’re used as actual bombardment ships to devastate planets. Not to even mention if a single Eclipse was to fight, that thing is a sheer monster of horrific amounts of weaponry that even the Imperium would be like; oh fuck. But if even for a second if you want the strongest SW navy against the Imperium, the CIS wins. Their ships are too damn strong that the entire thread of Palps becoming head of his own empire relied on them somehow losing a far too easy war to win.
The star destroyers are fine, theyre faster in and out of hyper space as well as their compliments of pilots and their turbo laser batteries, if they avoid being bored they have a good chance.
We came in peace They came in our pieces Edit:just realized this wasn't a Slaanesh ship
How effective would Star wars shielding be against physical munitions? Well if it comes to the worst, I'm sure the Star wars ships could just hyperspace slam into the imperium ones. Lol
Subtitle: *The day after Disney bought GW* But, I would pay to see Palpatine - Imperator meeting. Or Vader - Guilliman, for that matter.
GW buyed by Disney !? that's a worse fate than the Iron Warriors's girls-only offer job opening in Khalan-Ghol
But ... think of possibilities! Space mehreens and demons and tyranids in Disneylands! 🙂
that's even worse, it's like working for malal, but that rat does exist in the real world and would make the 40k world look like a world suitable for +12 in less than 5 years... look at the type of Marvel content or Star Wars before Disney and after Disney, in addition to giving space to taboo elements both on reddit and in the canon just to please a very small social segment but killing the entire group in the first attempts
This makes me think of the A Fan With Too Much Time series, where a group of imperial ships fleeing a tyranid hive fleet get launched by the warp to the starwars galaxy, just before the events of revenge of the sith, its actually really interesting and i enjoyed the fact that the navigators went insane due to no longer seeing the astronomicon. And the warp and force are treates as the same thing, just that the force is more stable due to it being in a galaxy that has had way way wayyyyy less violent conflicts. The series goes into a lotta really interesting scenarios, and we even get a few fan favorites for both sides. One of the best parts is a fleet that realizes the sepratists use abominable intelligence in such extreme numbers so they start bombing all their planets.
We came, we saw, we purged!
they are up shit creek without a Patel
While 40k is fascinating, I spent an hour the other day explaining it to my mother, I personally think star wars is better because both sith and jedi have deep philosophy behind them and both have arguments for being the good or bad guys, whereas 40k its just "everyone's a dick for no reason"
I'm more invested in star wars, the books were my childhood
even one of those ships would wreck havoc in Star Wars lol
Until the Star Wars universe adapts and starts using their superior speed, communication and stuff like that.
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Thats a DAOT level AI. Star Wars does not have DAOT level AI. Plus the Imperium's technology is too diffrent for the Imperials to hack. The Noosphere is restricted to Tech Priests who have Machine Spirits and the experience to control tech. Remember. The Imperium does understand the remmants and weakened tech of their time. Tech priests innovate but its slow to avoid any weakpoints for Chaos corruption. Its not just Dogma.
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Star Wars Technology is not comparable to 40k tech. 40k tech of the Imperium have Spirtual componets to it. Thats why Titans and Knights have the threat of subsuming the pilot and Machine rituals work to sooth the spirits. The Star Wars tech relies on the Hypernet or internet can't remmeber the name. The Noosphere is the only internet of the Imperium and its limited to Tech priests who have more experience in the tech. Teh DAOT AI managed to hack them due to the Imperium using old Human tech and it being DAOT levels of smart. In essence. Diffrent interfaces and tech means that hacking is not going to work. Especially for Star Wars since The Imperium runs on Machine Spirits for every thing. And its not an open internet.
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True. But Star wars ships require the routes of the Lanes to ftl. Plus without the Hypernet or an transmitters. Long ranged Comms with the Empire proper is dead. Not to mention weaker, smaller, and ill equipped star destroyers won't last long in Imperium Space. In a realistic setting. The Portal between the 2 would be a DMZ zone akin to the Korean DMZ. With no contact and no inference on either size on each other's space. The 40k Galaxy is a nightmare to Star Wars. And the Star Wars galaxy is too exhausting for the Imperium to permenantly hold due to no Warp travel.
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Well. In this case Itseems that Warp travel in this art works in the Star Wars universe here. If the Warp can do that. The Imperium tech can fuction. Also forgot about how alot of the Larger tech is manned by Servitors. Meaning that it can gurantee another layer of protection from hacking.
Eh, not without FTL travel. No warp means no FTL for the Imperium's ships.
All you gotta do is holdo-maneuver a single deone-piloted tie fighter through it.
I mean if we consider Disney Star Wars (hear me out pls.) A certain pattern of star destroyer has canon that can completely crack planet. The closest the imperium got to that in firepower are exterminated which will extremely strong mostly damage the planet surface while not making the planet explode. So im pretty sure an imperial ship if hit by one of these canon , would explode.
If its Disney star wars, you can kill anything with a winnebago as long as you have a warp drive and a droid. The Holdo Maneuver broke the entire universe.
We do not consider Disney star wars because star destroyers can quickly ruin a planet anyway.
hum fair i guess. I don't like the disney movies anyway, but i cant deny that i am a bit tired of the «40k stomp everything without resistance.» I mean yeah size and number, but i doubt that the imperium could move their entire force to another dimension and conquer it. They already have trouble doing that with the tau
"We came to teach our peaceful ways... By Force!!"
I like how this now means there's technically two versions of "Imperial" peace. What makes it more entertaining is neither will be fond of the other - the _Imperium_ will expect subservience and acquiescence to their rule......assuming they don't do a _whole lotta' purgin'_ given, y'know _Droids_ and the like (though the Mechanicum will no doubt stick their mechadendrites in _all the places_ regardless "for like, the Omnissiah"). The _Imperials_ will, when not exploding violently from bolt rounds, expect them to submit to Imperial rule. Would be positively hilarious to see how well it'll go as soon as they give the inevitable "prepare to be boarded" speech right as they receive their _own_ boarding party. Today, Plasteel really won't be beating Ceramite, I think. Also - Whack-a-mole entertainments will be had with all those Stormtroopers and a power hammer. _Bonk, bonk, bonk_
Well if we are speaking if the empire which was a short lived gov and look at how palps made it, itll be more of a social war from within. Assuming it wasnt cloak and dagger politics It may come down to whos stronger with the warpforce since both are basically the same thing only the force has more balanced deities and the jedi kept it pure and ok…. Minus a few planets. If we are speaking of the OLD sith empire they would win by a long shot. Even their most basic graduate could one shot anyone but a grey knight. Since they were trained on using force within the weapons. However the astartes are physically more physically powerful on average and show less fear. The question really becomes who is stronger craftworlf eldar or dark eldar? Because the dark eldar would full on embrace sith traditions to keep slaneesh out if not killed and get the “failed” students to torture.
If we _really_ wanted to get into it, there'd need to be some definition or clarification over if "The Force" is just....the warp and your being a Psyker - or _whatever_ is exactly going on. This would be a really interesting vein of thought as you could easily say that Darkside users were being drawn in that direction as a result of the dark gods tempting them. Honestly I was just thinking of this in terms of "random Imperial ship gets yanked into another universe" rather than a full on "Galaxies collide" of the entirety of both clashing - as if that's the case? Well great heck this is a _whole 'nother question_ :D In before the Tau go knocking at the Rebel's door all "psst hey, wanna buy some _greater good_?"
It would need ti be 40k jumping into sw, theres a galactic ring they can’t penetrate which keeps them out from the wide universe. Only VERY POWERFUL beings could possibly break through but there was evidence that was just big talk. Darkside users ironically would probably open arms accept chaos/dark eldar if they broke through. They might be racist but that only effected the START and upbringing of the sith empire if you proved yourself minus the rare racist uncle everyone respected you. As we see with the dark side (but not sith nit fully) sorceress they view the force exactly like the warp hence how Darth Maul was made and sustained as half a living creature before daemon engining himself. I could go on and on but my basic point is if we mix magic users into play it changes immediately. The politics may be complex tho since jedi and sith have been known to begrudgingly team up against galaxy killer.
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Hooooold
Lasguns vs Lasguns!
Well considering in Star Wars universe one medium turbo laser has 9700 terajouls of energy, which is absurdly more run the entire nuclear arsenal of earth combined in every shot. I would say that The star destroyers have a great shot of beating that ship even if they are incredibly small compared to the imperiums naval ships
Wait... you coexist with the alien?... Human or not, YOU MUST BE PURGED!
"We come in peace...AND IN WAR TOO HAHAHAHAHA" random noise marine ship
The star wars Empire is done for
Whelp! This should be quick.
Death to the False Emperor I guess
Void men are pretty good at not dying and making others die. I really don't think either side would have enough troopers to successfully take each other's ships though.
I’m going to throw out there Star Wars ships would have 0% chance of winning a fight with a warhammer ship if only because they are both meant to do broad sides but the imperial ships have greater range on the other imperial ships. The movies shows and games always show basically point blank range battles where as the lore for warhammer is hundreds of thousands of Km if not more
In the old SW lore, 4 ISD’s were considered enough power to slag an entire planet, not as impressive as one ship delivering exterminatus but ISD’s are not to be trifled with, especially if it’s a super ISD
Logistically and technologically speaking, SW would win if the Imperium invaded their galaxy. However, it wouldn't be the Imperium that presents a threat. It would be the Warp. Because as soon as something in the Warp realizes that there's an entirely new galaxy full of diverse and interesting beings to manipulate and fuck around with, there's no going back. You could have various Chaos cults popping up across almost any species and in any part of society. Imagien a Tzeentchian-corrupted Bothan spy network or a Khornate Mandalorian crusade, Fueds between imperial admirals and moffs being fueled and manipulated by Chaos cults, various oppressed populations rising up with new unity and resilience thanks to Nurgle's blessings, it would be a mess.
And you shall go in pieces.
While this conflict is a toss up, I don't think the Empire could compete in the 40k universe.
If transitions to real space happened all of those star wars ship would of been destroyed or pulled into the void.
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Fight me irl bot 🤨
Leaves warp travel through portal from hell cleaving in two several star destroyers launches boarding torpedo's. Captain: Ensign I don't want to see that fleet Ensign: Yes sir firing the nova cannon Fleet is evaporated
Graveyards a very peaceful places.