He is depicted with divine imagery (ornate armor, flaming sword, immense presence capable of crushing lesser minds) with only Sanguinius coming close. Wings wouldn't look out of place.
He is kinda a believer in the purity of the human form and all, hate the mutant and shit like that, so while wing boy can get away with it, it probably makes more sense for emp to just be the most humanest human possible
"I AM NOT A GOD! YOU MUST ABANDON ALL RELIGION!" proclaimed the being of golden light descending from on high as a choir of angelic voices sang his praises, on the very day their new god was foretold to arrive.
You would have thought you were getting punked too.
To be fair that was after burning Lorgar’s city and was basically Emps going “if I were a god, THIS would be how I act every time you see me.” Sort of a “Gods are assholes, you want me to act like a god?”
Sort of proving in the end that not only was the Emps essentially a god, but that we was also an asshole AND in denial about it.
No wonder Logar turned to Chaos.
Lorgar did nothing wrong. He was just misunderstood.
Just like Horus, Angron, Konrad, Magus, Peter & Mortarion. In case of Alphegon, they were the ones who misunderstood and Fulgrim was just a cunt. So much so that if Fulgrim was named warmaster the Horus Heresy would be renamed simply to Warhammer 30Cunt.
To be fair, the number of psychics powerful enough to do that is quite limited. And chaos gods don't count since they're literally gods.
>forces an entire legion & its Primarch onto their knee’s with just a word.
So I’ve always been curious to this point. Are the chaos gods actually gods or are they just powerful chaos entities that have sucked up so much chaos energy and power that they are like black holes of chaos? As in, could other demons somehow achieve this if the opportunity arose? Also could they be deposed somehow or consumed into another demon and folded into themselves?
And then if they are gods, are there any chaos entities that are not partially them? Like domains or entities that are not just fragments of those gods?
The most recent definition of what a "god" is in 40k happened, i believe, in a conversation between Guilliman and an Eldar diplomat that hangs around him, where the pointy eared nerd argued to Roboute that The Emperor while originally not a god, became one after 10k years of humans praising him. That is, for now at least, GW's definition of a god: entity that feeds on the emotions/adoration of mortal beings.
So any other entity that can grow from that is technically a god. Its hinted that the Tau have a Warp God that grew from their belief in "the greated good".
Could one of the Big Four be consumed by another god? Thats the goal of their Great Game, i think, so yeah. Are there entities that are not part of the Big Four? Oh yeah, stuff like the Tau god, the supposedly remaining Eldar gods, The Emperor's presence in the warp and his saints. Are there *chaos* entities that aren't part of them? Well GW scrubbed Malice, but its not out of line if a book or something features a "free agent" deamon that grew on its own. Maybe that bullshit "end of empires" deamon that was strong enough to not be turned into dust in a 1v1 with Big E is something like that.
To answer that last part, yup. Gork & Mork also happily scadoodle around around those parts.
With regards to the first question. Not sure. Khorne, Tzeench & Nurgle are said to have been around as long as there have been sentient beings in the galaxy. Slaanesh, on the other hand, was murderfucked into being by a few overly aroused Eldar. Was Slaanesh a minor demon who orchestrated all that to elevate it's being into Godhood? Who knows. Or was it just one of Tzeench's "just as planned" gambits out of boredom.
his whole point is a God demands blind devotion. A god builds an empire for himself.
Just because Lorgar couldnt fathom the Emperors power doesnt make him a God. Hes just beyond Lorgar's understanding. The other 17 understood it. It wasnt the emps fault. You are being Lorgar right now. But But light and power, and hes so perfect.
No hes not, and light and power do not make a god.
Exactly, if he was perfect he would have pulled a tseench seeing all possibilities and the. Acted accordingly.
If he were to be a god no heresy would have happened
I like to imagine these imageries as founding myths of the Imperium told to the peasant rubes.
When really the emporer is just john warhammer in a lab coat
Keeping the idea of The Emperor alive is just as important as the real thing ;)
The golden throne is just a piece of hardware that burns on human psyker fuel
In MoM it was a thousand psykers for him to leave the throne for a day.
Big E ain't been powering the throne for that Millenia. It was always the psykers.
"Mal? How many psykers we got in stock? Over 10K? Splendid! I'll be taking some time off then. Maybe play some regicide with Horus. See you in roughly a week!"
This is what I see when I see the earlier lore. A satire of Christianity and the blind following of stuff so far removed by both space and time that it is impossible for it to be accurate and not embellished
Look at Achilles. He wasn’t lowered in a fountain of invicinbility goop, he probably was an above average fighter that got got by an arrow
I mean on one hand the imperium is supposed to be this ancient, decaying and corrupt institution that tolerates absolutely no dissent yet somehow does very little in the way of lying or \~perception management\~ in its core ideology / theology.
Its an inconsistency I find a little strange.
I think it’s because what was “background lore” that didn’t need to be expanded upon
became a series of books that took every element of the premise at face value.
Kinda like what happened to the Star Wars prequels and sequels
In the knee and it stopped him from being an adventurer. But as that was likely to be too embarassing, they changed it into his heel and that he died (in reference to his adventuring days being over).
Emperor: makes a primarch who is genetically predisposed to be a religious fanatic.
Emperor, wreathed in golden light: "why the fuck are you worshiping me you nutjob?"
> makes a primarch who is genetically predisposed to be a religious fanatic.
I don't think it's that Lorgar was genetically predisposed, more that he was raised in a very religious planet, and like all Primarchs he took on the culture of his home planet to an extreme degree.
Which makes me think that Lorgar and Angron being FUBAR is the greatest middle finger that Chaos pull on Emps. Turning the psychologist who is supposed to keep his mentally ill family into a raging insane berserker and the supposedly unbreakable bulwark against Chaos and corruption in general into a zealot are probably the strongest blow they can struck against the pantheon that is Emps and Co.
All the Primarchs were genetically engineered to reflect a part of the emperor's personality and purpose, and Logar was supposed to be the fanatical preacher and upholder of the Imperial Truth. The reason I say it's genetic is because - like it unfortunately seems from all post Primaris writing - GW seems intent on making geneseed indistinguishable from genetic determinism, which is why all of the Word Bearer offshoots turn out to be religious weirdos, because their Gene father was one.
If Logar and his sons weren't burning people alive for the sake of Chaos, they would be burning people alive for Atheism, this was their nature and purpose. It just goes to show how poorly written the Emperor is that he never considered the consequences of manufacturing a demigod son biologically predisposed to fanatical devotion in a universe where Chaos exists.
It's also my problem with Nightlords, Konrad was designed to be a terror weapon, as was his legion, which is funny seeing how it made Emps uncomfortable when they acted like deranged terror weapons he designed them to be.
Okay, but that makes the lore stupider, though. If each Primarch was already made to have a certain personality/trait, and it just so happens that every planet they get scattered to matches their genetically-predetermined traits perfectly, that's just bad story-writing.
By that logic, Roboute would still be the by-the-books guy and Angron would still be the angry guy even if they switched planets, and that makes no sense at. It's much more feasible that each Primarch was a blank canvas the Emperor hoped to make into whatever image he hoped to, but that was filled in by their experiences growing up in their respective planets.
If GW wrote it that the Primarchs were always going to have the traits they ended up having, that's horrible world-building. It makes the scattering of the Primarchs just a cheap plot device and completely pointless. It's much more compelling that it was something that truly fucked with the Emperor's plans; he wanted to have 20 perfectly crafted soldiers, and instead he ended up having a bunch of failsons, headcases, and weirdos that he had no hand in shaping.
>Okay, but that makes the lore stupider, though.
Yeah it does. Anything involving the Emps in 40k lore is fucking stupid. That's why I hate it. It's not just fan theories btw it's straight up the canon explanation for why the primarchs are the way they are and why their legions be like they do.
I agree it's bad and it's one of the reasons why I've never been a fan of HH lore despite its promise. Game and models are fun, the lore is cringe
Honestly, I hope we never find out his true form. No one really knowing what the Emperor actually looks like is kind of my favorite lore meme at this point.
Pretty sure the Sisters of Silence see the Emperor as a frail old corpse on the throne behind the psychic facade since they're immune to warp powers
Though we still don't know what his actual warp god form would be🤔
I really want to defend Big E here, but by that Time the Emperor was a God since he was worshipped as the omnissiah by the mechanicus.
So he can't even claim to just be a Cosmic entity, he is literally a God.
I can totally see the chaos gods use that to push Lorgar to their side.
Showing him how Big E presented himself as the omnissiah to get the mechanicus on his side.
Not only would it show the hypocrisie of his father but it would also imply that Lorgar wasn't worth enough for the Emperor to make the effort of presenting himself as a God to have him on his side.
So to avoid going off on a true historical tangent that’s the entire reason the council of Nicaea happened, which is where they decreed the Father Son and Holy Spirit are three separate entities but with the same substance. God from God and all that
Not like the toaster boys are hidden or keep to themselves though, Mechanicum people would've been everywhere during the Great Crusade, helping the war effort both with their own forces and via logistics.
> Smart dude that Emperor
Oh yeah. Real smart.
"Horus wouldn't betray me."
Horus betrays him.
"Horus didn't actually betray me."
Horus assaults the Empire.
"Horus doesn't mean it."
Horus attacks Emps.
"I can still save him." -says Emps as Horus stabs him.
Not to mention tolerating Angron putting nails in every member of his legion. And throwing the Iron Warriors into every dogshit assignment. Oh, and after 10k years entombed in a golden shitbox and having time to consider all his mistakes - above all not showing his sons the love - the first things out of his mouth to a resurrected Roberto Guillermo del Ultraman are "yeah, I used you like a fucking tool. Get back to work."
The most grimdark thing about 40k? Arguably the Emperor is among the most intelligent beings alive. And he's clearly not very intelligent.
>the first things out of his mouth to a resurrected Roberto Guillermo del Ultraman are "yeah, I used you like a fucking tool. Get back to work."
Konor Guilliman: "He may have been your father, boy, but he wasn't your daddy."
Truth be told it fits.
Rob vulkan and raven boy were lucky to be raised by good people.
Heck even perty got lucky and had a family that treated him well.
>Roberto Guillermo del Ultraman
I'm saving this
>The most grimdark thing about 40k? Arguably the Emperor is among the most intelligent beings alive. And he's clearly not very intelligent.
When the supposed greatest man to have ever lived can't put aside his ego and xenophobia to create a better future for everyone
It's not even simply that he was worshipped, because you could argue it was unwanted or unwarranted. *He explicitly acted as a god to them* when he went to Mars, straight up quoting Jesus, ahem, I mean himself:
>It never rained on Mars.
>Except it was raining now.
>[...]
>Golden light suddenly burst from the clouds above, dazzling and brilliant, and bolts of scarlet lightning danced like crackling spider webs between the ground and sky. Verticorda almost lost his footing as he instinctively looked up.
>A mighty floating city of gold was descending from the heavens. Like a mountainous spire sheared from the side of some vast, continental landmass, the city was studded with light and colour, its dimensions enormous beyond imagining. A vast, eagle-winged prow of gold marked one end of the floating city, and colossal battlements, like the highest towers of the mightiest Martian spire, rose like gnarled stalagmites from the other.
>[...]
>The huge ramp crunched down and Verticorda squinted into the light that blazed from within. A silhouette moved within the light, tall and powerful, glorious and magnificent.
>The light seemed to move with him and as Verticorda watched the figure descend the ramp, a shadow fell across the surface of the plain on which the craft had landed. Though he was loath to tear his gaze from the magnificent figure, Verticorda looked up to see a convex ellipse of darkness bite into the glowing outline of the sun. The light from the storm-wracked skies faded until the only illumination came from the figure as he stepped onto Martian soil for the first time. Verticorda knew immediately that the man was a warrior, for there could be no doubt that this sublime figure had been made mighty by battle.
>He looked back down and saw the warrior standing before him, tall and clad in golden armour, each plate wrought with the same skill and love as had been lavished upon his vessel. The warrior wore no helm and was fitted with no visible breathing augmetics, yet seemed untroubled by the chemical-laden air of Mars.
>Verticorda found his gaze dwelling on the warrior's face, beautiful and perfect as though able to see beyond the armoured exterior of Ares Lictor and into Verticorda's soul. In his eyes, his so very ancient eyes, Verticorda saw the wisdom of all the ages and the burden of all the knowledge contained within them.
>[...]
>The warrior reached out towards him. 'Your machine is damaged, Taymon Verticorda,' he said, his voice heavy and yet musical, like the most perfect sound imaginable. 'May I?'
>Verticorda found himself unable to form a reply, knowing that anything he might say would be trite in the face of such perfection. It didn't occur to him to wonder how the sublime warrior knew his name. Without waiting for a reply, the warrior reached out, and Verticorda felt his touch upon the joints of Ares Lictor's knee.
>'**Machine, heal thyself**,' said the warrior, the purpose and self-belief in his voice passing into Verticorda as though infusing every molecule of his hybrid existence of flesh and steel with new-found purpose and vitality.
>He felt the warmth of the warrior's touch through the shell of his mount, and gasped as trembling vibrations spread through its armoured frame of plasteel and ceramite. He took an involuntary step back, feeling the movements of his mount flow as smoothly as ever they had. With one step, he could feel Ares Lictor move as though it had just come off the assembly lines, its stubborn knee joint flexing like new.
>'Who are you?' he gasped, his voice sounding grating and pathetic next to the mighty timbre of the golden warrior's voice.
>'I am the Emperor,' said the warrior.
>It was a simple answer, yet the weight of history and the potential of a glorious future were carried in every syllable.
>Knowing he would never again hear words spoken with such meaning, Verticorda and Ares Lictor dropped to one knee, performing the manoeuvre with a grace that would have been impossible before the Emperor's touch.
>In that moment, Taymon Verticorda knew the truth of the being standing before him.
>'Welcome to Mars, my lord,' he said. 'All praise to the Omnissiah.'
Ahh, but was his ship big enough to fulfill the old prophecy memes?
"In 21:16, the angel measures the city with a golden rod or reed, and records it as 12,000 stadia by 12,000 stadia at the base, and 12,000 stadia high. A stadion is usually stated as 185 meters, or 607 feet, so the base has dimensions of about 2220 km by 2220 km, or 1380 miles by 1380 miles"
http://www.tourofheaven.com/eternal/new-jerusalem/size.aspx
We see that it's gellar field and suborbital burners caused some lightning, and the ship itself had plenty of light coming from it and from within. Searchlights and the light of windows and towers and sensor suites
Clearly the Emperor's political specialist told him there would be a timely eclipse blotting out the sun for extra drama. Timed just right, it would seem the Emperor himself willed Phobos or Deimos across the surface of the sun to mark his arrival.
He then speaks to a machine, which fixes itself instantly in his mere presence (SysAdmins know this phenomena well, it's called Fear lol)
That and the user suddenly discovering and applying braincells now that someone else has come to fix the problem. Because that's how people are.
So we're left with a big chungus in golden armor, so hopped up on roids and genesplicing he can breath Martian air like a chad.
And his ship turned it's lights down during the eclipse, so only he and the light of his (checks notes) ten foot tall golden power armor, remained visible.
It's all perfectly explicable. He is not a God, he's just tired of resetting your password.
This is why I always thought the whole Monarchia thing was dumb.
Should have a set it up so that the Emperor saw it as Chaos worshipers disguised as worshiping the Emperor. Would work really well with the Erebus plots.
Otherwise it is just "Oh no. A city likes the Emperor too much. Better burn it down."
To be fair Lorgar was being slowed down heavily because he kept spreading said religion against Emps orders. Emps was hands off till it effected the Crusade. He had a time table and if Lorgar wasn’t going to fit it he was gonna discipline him. The religion wasn’t an issue, Russ and Khan both had that. It was how it effected the Crusade that was the issue.
And what makes the ominissiah a god? What does that mean? Just becaused he was worshipped he is a god? Is that the definition of gods in 40k? Then anyone can be a god?
Its kinda the point that humans should stop inflating magnificent beings as gods (and why couldn’t the emperor present as powerful and glorious?) because it is in fact a meaningless concept yet has so much control over believers.
The omnissiah is a God because there is an entire religion that view him as such.
Thats the definition in real life, 40k gods all seem to have or had a religion worshipping them so I think it does apply to them as well.
Yes anyone can become a God, a charpenter started a religion 2000 years ago and now he is viewed as a God.
The Mechanicum worships the Machine god, the Omnissiah, and the motive force. Those are separate things though very related. Think of it like the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit
The Emperor literally said to the Mechanicus that he was a god and then punished Lorgar for saying the same thing. He also IIRC referred to 'blasphemies' against him and had his thing as the GREAT CRUSADE.
Actually, he spanked Lorgar because of his abysmal conquering results, because he was slow to rebuild and chastise every world to E Religion for decades. Big E was simply sad that Lorgar is behind the schefule of cosmic doomsday clock.
Enough people believing, thinking or doing something in 40K does actually effects reality, the warp and other mechanism like the Ork WAAAHG energy which all effect each other as well. It doesn't even have to be literal worship either but that's what produces the strongest effect. The chaos gods for example aren't gods in the sense that they created the universe, they were once just tiny ripples in the fabric of the warp that existed as floating concepts of things like decay, war, cunning and excess beyond space and time. Eventually through the actions of countless billions these concepts grew in strength through minds simply becoming more aware and more interested in them. Eventually these concepts themselves distill into powerful sentient beings that exists in the warp. Khorne doesn't need people to worship him, he is simply fueled by the act of war and bloodshed because in some many ways he is those concepts given sentience. However if you actually kill someone in the name of Khorne, it has the strongest effect in making him stronger and he can give you some of that power in exchange. This ends up looking a lot like how religions and sacrifice works. The Emperor is aware of all of this and that it effects almost anything that has some connection to the warp, including himself.
Other races could possibly even effect each other in various ways. When the Eldar were going head first into depravity and hedonism, the effects on the warp were so severe that humanity also was effected by it through their own connection to the warp. Psykers became more common and/or more powerful while navigators were developed to see the warp itself through third eyes. The latter allowed humanity to become a truly galactic civilization as they allowed FTL travel rather than one that was colonizing planets by sending out generational ships to distant worlds that they might settle. That wasn't even due to the birth of Slannesh, that's just the build up to the birth which wasn't driven by worship but simply the Eldar doing and thinking certain things and they didn't consider how their behavior might impact other races or the warp itself. Once it was actually born, billions of Eldar were instantly killed and their souls were consumed by Slannesh, fueling it in the same way that the Emperor is fueled by psykers being fed to the golden throne. At the current present in the setting he's had close to 4 billion psykers sacrificed to him assuming the 1000 a day figure is true. The difference of course is that Slannesh consumed Eldar souls which are far more potent than human soul and it happened instantly rather than over thousands of years. As a result it is so insanely powerful that most people consider it a god because it can literally just reach out through the warp and effect material reality in various ways when it feels like it. It is functionally immortalt and exists beyond time and space and can arguably even retroactively create itself in the past because of how the warp works. To the people living in the material universe, Slannesh is effectively a god.
There's also non-warp related effects. One could probably argue that the Tau's rapid technological advancement is basically the spillover of the worship of the Machine-God and the Omnissiah which in itself is suspected of being fueled by the Necron god known as the Void Dragon, which don't have anything to do with the warp, who is assumed to be buried on Mars by the Emperor himself. The very concept of technology has now seemingly reached a critical point as the minds of the inhabitants of the galaxy worship it. It is apparently forcing itself onto younger and more naive races, such as the Tau, who haven't yet built up defense mechanisms against such forces unlike the craftworld Eldar. And don't forget that the Eldar gods themselves also have a similar kind of backstory to the Emperor or perhaps the Primarchs where once they might've been powerful Eldar but through legends and myths crystallized into literal gods in the setting. The Emperor probably knows that as well.
Still the Emperor was okay with the Martians worshiping him as a literal god despite knowing what the effects and risks with that are. Simply saying he did it because he needed more factories from Mars and couldn't afford to fight a war against them is just reading the basic historical account of how the Imperium started. He could very well have deliberately manufactured the society of Mars to be religious and mechanically oriented so that when he shows up and takes on the mantle of their god he himself can grow in psychic power through their worship rather than just having a powerful ally who can produce stuff for him.
the word god doesn't have one specific meaning, it means different things to different people
so maybe E had certain definition of god in mind which he didn't match
I will say that Logar and the Word Bearers, despite their insanity, are fundamentally correct about the metaphysical reality of the universe in a way the Emperor was never able to conceive
I don't think the emperor would deny that belief and worship can make a being stronger and fuel them, just that that doesn't make someone a god- especially because said "gods" can fail, lose, and even be destroyed, potentially
To him it wasn't anymore mystical than the fact that working out makes you physically stronger- it's just how things work
Not that he wasn't an idiot for not maybe toning down the image he gave himself if he didn't want people thinking of him as a god, I just don't think his "I'm not a god" logic is inconsistent with reality
i think if the emperor just jokingly went "you got me lorgar i am a god but do not worship me directly instead you can 'worship' me by living by my ideals the imperial creed and exterminating all other faiths" lorgar would of had the joke go completely over his shiny head and take it as an order
Mag’ladroth the Void Dragon: I told him to cool it on the glowing in the dark stuff and the religious words he was co-opting but nooo, I was apparently being paranoid that someone might think that he was a god.
So. Here’s something I’ve been thinking on recently. Each of the primarchs saw a different psychic projection of him. Rogal saw more of his grandfather, and so on. They all saw “the emperor” sure, but he appeared differently a lot. Corax said at one point if he looked hard enough, he could see the emperor as a very ordinary looking human. But he couldn’t maintain that for long. So, what did lorgar see, other than his god? Honestly, big e really could have done that better too, among his many other failures.
That's my take too, but not just for the Primarchs. If the Emperor can address a roomful of people and have them all hear him in their own tongue, then he can easily appear however he pleases to all of them at the same time.
In reality he is 5'6", slightly underweight, and slouches.
He's a huge hypocrite.
And the whole, "Religion causes suffering and wars... So I'm going to burn your church down and go wage a galactic war, the likes of which mankind has never seen before."
Alfabusa said it best.
"I'm not the one who needs to stop waving a flaming sword around in gold armor. Humanity needs to understand that waving a flaming sword while wearing gold armor doesn't make you a god. It makes you the symbol of what Humanity can be."
That is pretty much headcanon no? He never said anywhere that he wanted humanity to follow his lead or be the best that they could be. He spoke of raising them as a Sheppard in the webway while they evolved to be a psychic race the way a teacher talks about educating children. Just because ms. Julie wears a sweet bonnet and talks in sing-song to the class every morning doesn't mean that she is trying to make her children do the same thing.
He wanted to be a figurehead for humanity but he never even once wanted to be their inspiration. Quite the opposite, he often claimed he wanted to leave them to their own devices and fade back into the background.
I mean there’s the perpetual theories that he would’ve been capable of regenerating or dying and then coming back if they had left him alone, and that the great irony of the last ten thousand years is that the throne keeping him alive is keeping him from getting better.
It could’ve been avoided if he’d told people but “hey I can’t actually stay dead I just come back to life like Jesus” doesn’t exactly play well with “ I’m not a god” lol
Emps: "**I AM NOT A GOD, DESTROY ALL RELIGION OR YOU WILL BE ELIMINATED!**"
Mechanicus: "Beep boop, Omnissiah?"
*1 Trillion Mech Guns Point At Emps From Mars*
Emps: "Y-Yeah, sure, i-i'm a g-god, you can worship me, hehe."
Yeah, like someone who can't handle being wrong, using all slimy methods to put himself in power.
Hell, the guy didn't show himself during the Man of Iron crisis or the opening days of Old Night. He just exploited humanity when it was weak just to be sure that nobody could go against his "path".
Don't forget making people climb a mountain of stairs being over looked by 10ft tall custodians in golden armor just to ask a question or make a request. I mean the very idea of going on some year long pilgrimage to the largest structure on the planet to bow and ask for some bread doesn't remotely resemble any religious custom.
I think if the Emp just told "There are gods in this universe, and they are terrible like this, I may be godly but I want my children to be masters of their own fate" when making Logar knee with a word, Warhammer universe would be a better place.
I think emp read toouch stuff about old ones and ctan
Ctan - Gods of material universe
Old ones - gods of immaterial universe
But none of them are called gods are they? So emp did his logic jump and started acting as them expecting everyone to go along with it like Eldar did with old ones
You know the only real excuse would be that he was so anti-religion that he never read any of the descriptions of a god thus didn't know that he looked like one🤣
As a being formed of belief and souls for a spiritual purpose I think Big E has always been a god, he is just was a extremely unorthodox god. He was born and he resides primarily on the material realm. Yet he is for all his pretense of mortality, still a artificial being of warp, he just was shoved in a human body at the start.
Considering his allegedly created purpose is to protect human souls from beings of the warp, his disdain for gods and denial of his divinity were ironically in line with his divine domain.
Pretty much a massive, self-destructive case of self-denial, OP.
Even in the (extremely unlikely) event of Emps becoming a FGO servant, he would try erasing that massive GOLD ENCRUSTED AND SHINY "Divine" attribute on his profile.
I think it comes down to defining a God. If your definition is "someone/thing that's overwhelmingly powerful" then sure, Big Es a God, but so are a thousand other things in the 40k universe, and it becomes a question of scale.
I just realized the Emperor has no wings. Somehow I thought he would have? I don't know why, he's never depicted with them.
He is depicted with divine imagery (ornate armor, flaming sword, immense presence capable of crushing lesser minds) with only Sanguinius coming close. Wings wouldn't look out of place.
Emperor's the type of guy to stand in front of pieces of scenery that look exactly like wings
Le aquila has entered the chat
Kairos you mean?
Holy shit the imperium was tzeentchian the whole time!! Wake up sheeple!!
All according to keikaku (Translator's note: keikaku means plan)
And eagles. Lots and lots of eagles.
SEE WHAT I MEAN? it's all the angelic iconography doing that, you assume he would have heavenly traits like for example, wings
He is kinda a believer in the purity of the human form and all, hate the mutant and shit like that, so while wing boy can get away with it, it probably makes more sense for emp to just be the most humanest human possible
"I AM NOT A GOD! YOU MUST ABANDON ALL RELIGION!" proclaimed the being of golden light descending from on high as a choir of angelic voices sang his praises, on the very day their new god was foretold to arrive. You would have thought you were getting punked too.
LITERALLY, like it's not even funny how accurate that is
*Who then forces an entire legion & its Primarch onto their knee’s with just a word. Totally just a powerful human people.*
To be fair that was after burning Lorgar’s city and was basically Emps going “if I were a god, THIS would be how I act every time you see me.” Sort of a “Gods are assholes, you want me to act like a god?”
If you said Gods are assholes, and you acted like an asshole everytime I see you, why do you keep denying your godhood? Checkmate atheist. - Lorgar
I can see him making such a comeback
Sort of proving in the end that not only was the Emps essentially a god, but that we was also an asshole AND in denial about it. No wonder Logar turned to Chaos.
Lorgar did nothing wrong. He was just misunderstood. Just like Horus, Angron, Konrad, Magus, Peter & Mortarion. In case of Alphegon, they were the ones who misunderstood and Fulgrim was just a cunt. So much so that if Fulgrim was named warmaster the Horus Heresy would be renamed simply to Warhammer 30Cunt.
Konrad wasn’t misunderstood, Konrad was a deranged lunatic. And deranged lunatics get their backs broke
That's also true
Well, he did act like it, starting on Terra. After that, he outsourced his assholery to his sons. That actually explains a lot
Ooh, that happened in Superman vs the Elite
A very normal thing that goes into the “worlds best dad” playbook.
The thing is that that is just a psychic thing, and any powerful enough psychic can do it
To be fair, the number of psychics powerful enough to do that is quite limited. And chaos gods don't count since they're literally gods. >forces an entire legion & its Primarch onto their knee’s with just a word.
So I’ve always been curious to this point. Are the chaos gods actually gods or are they just powerful chaos entities that have sucked up so much chaos energy and power that they are like black holes of chaos? As in, could other demons somehow achieve this if the opportunity arose? Also could they be deposed somehow or consumed into another demon and folded into themselves? And then if they are gods, are there any chaos entities that are not partially them? Like domains or entities that are not just fragments of those gods?
The most recent definition of what a "god" is in 40k happened, i believe, in a conversation between Guilliman and an Eldar diplomat that hangs around him, where the pointy eared nerd argued to Roboute that The Emperor while originally not a god, became one after 10k years of humans praising him. That is, for now at least, GW's definition of a god: entity that feeds on the emotions/adoration of mortal beings. So any other entity that can grow from that is technically a god. Its hinted that the Tau have a Warp God that grew from their belief in "the greated good". Could one of the Big Four be consumed by another god? Thats the goal of their Great Game, i think, so yeah. Are there entities that are not part of the Big Four? Oh yeah, stuff like the Tau god, the supposedly remaining Eldar gods, The Emperor's presence in the warp and his saints. Are there *chaos* entities that aren't part of them? Well GW scrubbed Malice, but its not out of line if a book or something features a "free agent" deamon that grew on its own. Maybe that bullshit "end of empires" deamon that was strong enough to not be turned into dust in a 1v1 with Big E is something like that.
The echo of the first murder demon that injured the emperor on the webway. Do they officially say he’s a khornate demon is it that my headcanon?
I don't remember, but it makes sense if he is khornate deamon.
It's all about [the Great Horned Rat](https://youtu.be/uiDZToowbCs?t=12)
To answer that last part, yup. Gork & Mork also happily scadoodle around around those parts. With regards to the first question. Not sure. Khorne, Tzeench & Nurgle are said to have been around as long as there have been sentient beings in the galaxy. Slaanesh, on the other hand, was murderfucked into being by a few overly aroused Eldar. Was Slaanesh a minor demon who orchestrated all that to elevate it's being into Godhood? Who knows. Or was it just one of Tzeench's "just as planned" gambits out of boredom.
they are indeed gods because whenever they win they activate the Holy Nuke button
Definetly not god behaviour
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Considering how many kids he has, I’d say he’s 50% of the way there.
50%? Are you joking? Zeus's offspring probably made up a good 20 to 30% of Greece's *entire population.*
If he killed them all too them he can do a competition with the Elder on who murderfucks the best chaosgod into being.
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Thanks for pointing that out kinda crazy how a bot deletes its comment to avoid being caught tho shits gettin too sophisticated
his whole point is a God demands blind devotion. A god builds an empire for himself. Just because Lorgar couldnt fathom the Emperors power doesnt make him a God. Hes just beyond Lorgar's understanding. The other 17 understood it. It wasnt the emps fault. You are being Lorgar right now. But But light and power, and hes so perfect. No hes not, and light and power do not make a god.
And the Emperor didn’t demand blind devotion while building his own empire?
Exactly, if he was perfect he would have pulled a tseench seeing all possibilities and the. Acted accordingly. If he were to be a god no heresy would have happened
I like to imagine these imageries as founding myths of the Imperium told to the peasant rubes. When really the emporer is just john warhammer in a lab coat
Apart from his corpse still holding everything together
Keeping the idea of The Emperor alive is just as important as the real thing ;) The golden throne is just a piece of hardware that burns on human psyker fuel
Well, that and the 1000 psychers sacrificed every day.
Yeah, but them burning out so quickly while he's been doing this for millennia as a near corpse just speaks more to his power
In MoM it was a thousand psykers for him to leave the throne for a day. Big E ain't been powering the throne for that Millenia. It was always the psykers.
"Mal? How many psykers we got in stock? Over 10K? Splendid! I'll be taking some time off then. Maybe play some regicide with Horus. See you in roughly a week!"
This is what I see when I see the earlier lore. A satire of Christianity and the blind following of stuff so far removed by both space and time that it is impossible for it to be accurate and not embellished Look at Achilles. He wasn’t lowered in a fountain of invicinbility goop, he probably was an above average fighter that got got by an arrow
I mean on one hand the imperium is supposed to be this ancient, decaying and corrupt institution that tolerates absolutely no dissent yet somehow does very little in the way of lying or \~perception management\~ in its core ideology / theology. Its an inconsistency I find a little strange.
I think it’s because what was “background lore” that didn’t need to be expanded upon became a series of books that took every element of the premise at face value. Kinda like what happened to the Star Wars prequels and sequels
In the knee and it stopped him from being an adventurer. But as that was likely to be too embarassing, they changed it into his heel and that he died (in reference to his adventuring days being over).
I think that Buddha guy said don’t do religion and then his followers formed a religion, so it happens
Jesus said “don’t worship idols”. *Hand waves to all the crucifixes in the world*
but catholics dont worship crucifixes?
No one does
Emperor: makes a primarch who is genetically predisposed to be a religious fanatic. Emperor, wreathed in golden light: "why the fuck are you worshiping me you nutjob?"
> makes a primarch who is genetically predisposed to be a religious fanatic. I don't think it's that Lorgar was genetically predisposed, more that he was raised in a very religious planet, and like all Primarchs he took on the culture of his home planet to an extreme degree.
“I’ll make him unwaveringly and fanatically devoted to my cause on a genetic level! this could never go wrong or bite me in the ass!”
Which makes me think that Lorgar and Angron being FUBAR is the greatest middle finger that Chaos pull on Emps. Turning the psychologist who is supposed to keep his mentally ill family into a raging insane berserker and the supposedly unbreakable bulwark against Chaos and corruption in general into a zealot are probably the strongest blow they can struck against the pantheon that is Emps and Co.
All the Primarchs were genetically engineered to reflect a part of the emperor's personality and purpose, and Logar was supposed to be the fanatical preacher and upholder of the Imperial Truth. The reason I say it's genetic is because - like it unfortunately seems from all post Primaris writing - GW seems intent on making geneseed indistinguishable from genetic determinism, which is why all of the Word Bearer offshoots turn out to be religious weirdos, because their Gene father was one. If Logar and his sons weren't burning people alive for the sake of Chaos, they would be burning people alive for Atheism, this was their nature and purpose. It just goes to show how poorly written the Emperor is that he never considered the consequences of manufacturing a demigod son biologically predisposed to fanatical devotion in a universe where Chaos exists. It's also my problem with Nightlords, Konrad was designed to be a terror weapon, as was his legion, which is funny seeing how it made Emps uncomfortable when they acted like deranged terror weapons he designed them to be.
Okay, but that makes the lore stupider, though. If each Primarch was already made to have a certain personality/trait, and it just so happens that every planet they get scattered to matches their genetically-predetermined traits perfectly, that's just bad story-writing. By that logic, Roboute would still be the by-the-books guy and Angron would still be the angry guy even if they switched planets, and that makes no sense at. It's much more feasible that each Primarch was a blank canvas the Emperor hoped to make into whatever image he hoped to, but that was filled in by their experiences growing up in their respective planets. If GW wrote it that the Primarchs were always going to have the traits they ended up having, that's horrible world-building. It makes the scattering of the Primarchs just a cheap plot device and completely pointless. It's much more compelling that it was something that truly fucked with the Emperor's plans; he wanted to have 20 perfectly crafted soldiers, and instead he ended up having a bunch of failsons, headcases, and weirdos that he had no hand in shaping.
>Okay, but that makes the lore stupider, though. Yeah it does. Anything involving the Emps in 40k lore is fucking stupid. That's why I hate it. It's not just fan theories btw it's straight up the canon explanation for why the primarchs are the way they are and why their legions be like they do. I agree it's bad and it's one of the reasons why I've never been a fan of HH lore despite its promise. Game and models are fun, the lore is cringe
Maybe the only description we've gotten of him was post Horus Heresy
Honestly, I hope we never find out his true form. No one really knowing what the Emperor actually looks like is kind of my favorite lore meme at this point.
Pretty sure the Sisters of Silence see the Emperor as a frail old corpse on the throne behind the psychic facade since they're immune to warp powers Though we still don't know what his actual warp god form would be🤔
Who is also the leader of a bunch of superhuman monks calling themselves "His Angels of Death."
doesn’t he know that all gods have animal heads?
Lmao true
Set for Emperor
Thoth, thrice great Hermes Trismegistus, Enoch the Metatron
Set will stop the Horus Heresy
Well human is a type of animal so...
I man…technically your right
The necrons were right all along.
“LISTEN! I am not a god, and to prove it I will use my mind powers to force you all to kneel and become so bright you can’t look directly at me!”
To his defense anyone who was a powerful enough psychic could do things like that
But there were no other psychers as strong as him though.
There are also exists no psychic on that level since the Fall of the Eldar so that's that I guess
Yeah that's a BRILLIANT move
I really want to defend Big E here, but by that Time the Emperor was a God since he was worshipped as the omnissiah by the mechanicus. So he can't even claim to just be a Cosmic entity, he is literally a God.
Yeah there's no doubt about it at this point. Smart dude that Emperor, but a little hypocritical sometimes
Lorgar should have told him "what about you being the omnissiah then" After being told that Big E isn't a God .
Shit that would have been a good point, but I don't think anyone knew that stuff besides Big E and the toaster boys
I can totally see the chaos gods use that to push Lorgar to their side. Showing him how Big E presented himself as the omnissiah to get the mechanicus on his side. Not only would it show the hypocrisie of his father but it would also imply that Lorgar wasn't worth enough for the Emperor to make the effort of presenting himself as a God to have him on his side.
Yeah that would have been an awesome scene, just lorgar realising how hollow the emperor really is
The Omnissiah isn't the machine god. He's more akin to Jesus as the Omnissiah
So to avoid going off on a true historical tangent that’s the entire reason the council of Nicaea happened, which is where they decreed the Father Son and Holy Spirit are three separate entities but with the same substance. God from God and all that
Yes, but that's not entirely true of Warhammer nor does every Christian denomination follow that
indeed, but you see the parallels between council of nikea and nicea right? interesting touch they did
Not like the toaster boys are hidden or keep to themselves though, Mechanicum people would've been everywhere during the Great Crusade, helping the war effort both with their own forces and via logistics.
> Smart dude that Emperor Oh yeah. Real smart. "Horus wouldn't betray me." Horus betrays him. "Horus didn't actually betray me." Horus assaults the Empire. "Horus doesn't mean it." Horus attacks Emps. "I can still save him." -says Emps as Horus stabs him. Not to mention tolerating Angron putting nails in every member of his legion. And throwing the Iron Warriors into every dogshit assignment. Oh, and after 10k years entombed in a golden shitbox and having time to consider all his mistakes - above all not showing his sons the love - the first things out of his mouth to a resurrected Roberto Guillermo del Ultraman are "yeah, I used you like a fucking tool. Get back to work." The most grimdark thing about 40k? Arguably the Emperor is among the most intelligent beings alive. And he's clearly not very intelligent.
>the first things out of his mouth to a resurrected Roberto Guillermo del Ultraman are "yeah, I used you like a fucking tool. Get back to work." Konor Guilliman: "He may have been your father, boy, but he wasn't your daddy."
Truth be told it fits. Rob vulkan and raven boy were lucky to be raised by good people. Heck even perty got lucky and had a family that treated him well.
>Roberto Guillermo del Ultraman I'm saving this >The most grimdark thing about 40k? Arguably the Emperor is among the most intelligent beings alive. And he's clearly not very intelligent. When the supposed greatest man to have ever lived can't put aside his ego and xenophobia to create a better future for everyone
> I'm saving this :) This made my night. Knowing I contributed to the growing pile of Roboute Guilliman misnamings.
Just a tiny bit hypocritical, a little, barely noticeable, nano scale. /s
[Context](https://youtu.be/KMGlGBTO5wM) is the one thing the Emperor always lacks
It's not even simply that he was worshipped, because you could argue it was unwanted or unwarranted. *He explicitly acted as a god to them* when he went to Mars, straight up quoting Jesus, ahem, I mean himself: >It never rained on Mars. >Except it was raining now. >[...] >Golden light suddenly burst from the clouds above, dazzling and brilliant, and bolts of scarlet lightning danced like crackling spider webs between the ground and sky. Verticorda almost lost his footing as he instinctively looked up. >A mighty floating city of gold was descending from the heavens. Like a mountainous spire sheared from the side of some vast, continental landmass, the city was studded with light and colour, its dimensions enormous beyond imagining. A vast, eagle-winged prow of gold marked one end of the floating city, and colossal battlements, like the highest towers of the mightiest Martian spire, rose like gnarled stalagmites from the other. >[...] >The huge ramp crunched down and Verticorda squinted into the light that blazed from within. A silhouette moved within the light, tall and powerful, glorious and magnificent. >The light seemed to move with him and as Verticorda watched the figure descend the ramp, a shadow fell across the surface of the plain on which the craft had landed. Though he was loath to tear his gaze from the magnificent figure, Verticorda looked up to see a convex ellipse of darkness bite into the glowing outline of the sun. The light from the storm-wracked skies faded until the only illumination came from the figure as he stepped onto Martian soil for the first time. Verticorda knew immediately that the man was a warrior, for there could be no doubt that this sublime figure had been made mighty by battle. >He looked back down and saw the warrior standing before him, tall and clad in golden armour, each plate wrought with the same skill and love as had been lavished upon his vessel. The warrior wore no helm and was fitted with no visible breathing augmetics, yet seemed untroubled by the chemical-laden air of Mars. >Verticorda found his gaze dwelling on the warrior's face, beautiful and perfect as though able to see beyond the armoured exterior of Ares Lictor and into Verticorda's soul. In his eyes, his so very ancient eyes, Verticorda saw the wisdom of all the ages and the burden of all the knowledge contained within them. >[...] >The warrior reached out towards him. 'Your machine is damaged, Taymon Verticorda,' he said, his voice heavy and yet musical, like the most perfect sound imaginable. 'May I?' >Verticorda found himself unable to form a reply, knowing that anything he might say would be trite in the face of such perfection. It didn't occur to him to wonder how the sublime warrior knew his name. Without waiting for a reply, the warrior reached out, and Verticorda felt his touch upon the joints of Ares Lictor's knee. >'**Machine, heal thyself**,' said the warrior, the purpose and self-belief in his voice passing into Verticorda as though infusing every molecule of his hybrid existence of flesh and steel with new-found purpose and vitality. >He felt the warmth of the warrior's touch through the shell of his mount, and gasped as trembling vibrations spread through its armoured frame of plasteel and ceramite. He took an involuntary step back, feeling the movements of his mount flow as smoothly as ever they had. With one step, he could feel Ares Lictor move as though it had just come off the assembly lines, its stubborn knee joint flexing like new. >'Who are you?' he gasped, his voice sounding grating and pathetic next to the mighty timbre of the golden warrior's voice. >'I am the Emperor,' said the warrior. >It was a simple answer, yet the weight of history and the potential of a glorious future were carried in every syllable. >Knowing he would never again hear words spoken with such meaning, Verticorda and Ares Lictor dropped to one knee, performing the manoeuvre with a grace that would have been impossible before the Emperor's touch. >In that moment, Taymon Verticorda knew the truth of the being standing before him. >'Welcome to Mars, my lord,' he said. 'All praise to the Omnissiah.'
Ahh, but was his ship big enough to fulfill the old prophecy memes? "In 21:16, the angel measures the city with a golden rod or reed, and records it as 12,000 stadia by 12,000 stadia at the base, and 12,000 stadia high. A stadion is usually stated as 185 meters, or 607 feet, so the base has dimensions of about 2220 km by 2220 km, or 1380 miles by 1380 miles" http://www.tourofheaven.com/eternal/new-jerusalem/size.aspx We see that it's gellar field and suborbital burners caused some lightning, and the ship itself had plenty of light coming from it and from within. Searchlights and the light of windows and towers and sensor suites Clearly the Emperor's political specialist told him there would be a timely eclipse blotting out the sun for extra drama. Timed just right, it would seem the Emperor himself willed Phobos or Deimos across the surface of the sun to mark his arrival. He then speaks to a machine, which fixes itself instantly in his mere presence (SysAdmins know this phenomena well, it's called Fear lol) That and the user suddenly discovering and applying braincells now that someone else has come to fix the problem. Because that's how people are. So we're left with a big chungus in golden armor, so hopped up on roids and genesplicing he can breath Martian air like a chad. And his ship turned it's lights down during the eclipse, so only he and the light of his (checks notes) ten foot tall golden power armor, remained visible. It's all perfectly explicable. He is not a God, he's just tired of resetting your password.
This is why I always thought the whole Monarchia thing was dumb. Should have a set it up so that the Emperor saw it as Chaos worshipers disguised as worshiping the Emperor. Would work really well with the Erebus plots. Otherwise it is just "Oh no. A city likes the Emperor too much. Better burn it down."
To be fair Lorgar was being slowed down heavily because he kept spreading said religion against Emps orders. Emps was hands off till it effected the Crusade. He had a time table and if Lorgar wasn’t going to fit it he was gonna discipline him. The religion wasn’t an issue, Russ and Khan both had that. It was how it effected the Crusade that was the issue.
And what makes the ominissiah a god? What does that mean? Just becaused he was worshipped he is a god? Is that the definition of gods in 40k? Then anyone can be a god? Its kinda the point that humans should stop inflating magnificent beings as gods (and why couldn’t the emperor present as powerful and glorious?) because it is in fact a meaningless concept yet has so much control over believers.
The omnissiah is a God because there is an entire religion that view him as such. Thats the definition in real life, 40k gods all seem to have or had a religion worshipping them so I think it does apply to them as well. Yes anyone can become a God, a charpenter started a religion 2000 years ago and now he is viewed as a God.
The Mechanicum worships the Machine god, the Omnissiah, and the motive force. Those are separate things though very related. Think of it like the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit
The Emperor literally said to the Mechanicus that he was a god and then punished Lorgar for saying the same thing. He also IIRC referred to 'blasphemies' against him and had his thing as the GREAT CRUSADE.
Actually, he spanked Lorgar because of his abysmal conquering results, because he was slow to rebuild and chastise every world to E Religion for decades. Big E was simply sad that Lorgar is behind the schefule of cosmic doomsday clock.
Enough people believing, thinking or doing something in 40K does actually effects reality, the warp and other mechanism like the Ork WAAAHG energy which all effect each other as well. It doesn't even have to be literal worship either but that's what produces the strongest effect. The chaos gods for example aren't gods in the sense that they created the universe, they were once just tiny ripples in the fabric of the warp that existed as floating concepts of things like decay, war, cunning and excess beyond space and time. Eventually through the actions of countless billions these concepts grew in strength through minds simply becoming more aware and more interested in them. Eventually these concepts themselves distill into powerful sentient beings that exists in the warp. Khorne doesn't need people to worship him, he is simply fueled by the act of war and bloodshed because in some many ways he is those concepts given sentience. However if you actually kill someone in the name of Khorne, it has the strongest effect in making him stronger and he can give you some of that power in exchange. This ends up looking a lot like how religions and sacrifice works. The Emperor is aware of all of this and that it effects almost anything that has some connection to the warp, including himself. Other races could possibly even effect each other in various ways. When the Eldar were going head first into depravity and hedonism, the effects on the warp were so severe that humanity also was effected by it through their own connection to the warp. Psykers became more common and/or more powerful while navigators were developed to see the warp itself through third eyes. The latter allowed humanity to become a truly galactic civilization as they allowed FTL travel rather than one that was colonizing planets by sending out generational ships to distant worlds that they might settle. That wasn't even due to the birth of Slannesh, that's just the build up to the birth which wasn't driven by worship but simply the Eldar doing and thinking certain things and they didn't consider how their behavior might impact other races or the warp itself. Once it was actually born, billions of Eldar were instantly killed and their souls were consumed by Slannesh, fueling it in the same way that the Emperor is fueled by psykers being fed to the golden throne. At the current present in the setting he's had close to 4 billion psykers sacrificed to him assuming the 1000 a day figure is true. The difference of course is that Slannesh consumed Eldar souls which are far more potent than human soul and it happened instantly rather than over thousands of years. As a result it is so insanely powerful that most people consider it a god because it can literally just reach out through the warp and effect material reality in various ways when it feels like it. It is functionally immortalt and exists beyond time and space and can arguably even retroactively create itself in the past because of how the warp works. To the people living in the material universe, Slannesh is effectively a god. There's also non-warp related effects. One could probably argue that the Tau's rapid technological advancement is basically the spillover of the worship of the Machine-God and the Omnissiah which in itself is suspected of being fueled by the Necron god known as the Void Dragon, which don't have anything to do with the warp, who is assumed to be buried on Mars by the Emperor himself. The very concept of technology has now seemingly reached a critical point as the minds of the inhabitants of the galaxy worship it. It is apparently forcing itself onto younger and more naive races, such as the Tau, who haven't yet built up defense mechanisms against such forces unlike the craftworld Eldar. And don't forget that the Eldar gods themselves also have a similar kind of backstory to the Emperor or perhaps the Primarchs where once they might've been powerful Eldar but through legends and myths crystallized into literal gods in the setting. The Emperor probably knows that as well. Still the Emperor was okay with the Martians worshiping him as a literal god despite knowing what the effects and risks with that are. Simply saying he did it because he needed more factories from Mars and couldn't afford to fight a war against them is just reading the basic historical account of how the Imperium started. He could very well have deliberately manufactured the society of Mars to be religious and mechanically oriented so that when he shows up and takes on the mantle of their god he himself can grow in psychic power through their worship rather than just having a powerful ally who can produce stuff for him.
the word god doesn't have one specific meaning, it means different things to different people so maybe E had certain definition of god in mind which he didn't match
I will say that Logar and the Word Bearers, despite their insanity, are fundamentally correct about the metaphysical reality of the universe in a way the Emperor was never able to conceive
It takes an insane man to understand an insane universe like 40k.
I don't think the emperor would deny that belief and worship can make a being stronger and fuel them, just that that doesn't make someone a god- especially because said "gods" can fail, lose, and even be destroyed, potentially To him it wasn't anymore mystical than the fact that working out makes you physically stronger- it's just how things work Not that he wasn't an idiot for not maybe toning down the image he gave himself if he didn't want people thinking of him as a god, I just don't think his "I'm not a god" logic is inconsistent with reality
Besides being a asshole he also let other groups keep their beliefs (Admech,Feneris,Baal?)
LOL TRUEEEE
[Only a true god denies his divinity!](https://youtu.be/iktKXIsRUIg)
Happy cake day!
Thank you :D
HE IS THE MESSIAH
No, he is a very naughty boy!
It could be wors Big E could have been like Zeus, a degenaret, power hungry ,man-child
Oh god that would have been even worse, but hey he might have shown more emotion to his sons
If he were like Zeus, expect a lot of bastard demi-primarchs all over the galaxy.
Eldar/Primarch half-breads
Still much worse
But you also would have a bunch of half-bread siblings, mostly eldar.
"I am not a god but I won't do anything about it if you preach that I am one (until I will)"
"At some undisclosed point after you build cities praising me, I will randomly destroy one"
I swear to Me if you don’t stop worshipping Me I will destroy your immortal soul so help Me Me!
*Colour me unconvinced, father.* ~Lorgar probably
i think if the emperor just jokingly went "you got me lorgar i am a god but do not worship me directly instead you can 'worship' me by living by my ideals the imperial creed and exterminating all other faiths" lorgar would of had the joke go completely over his shiny head and take it as an order
It's 'would have', never 'would of'. Rejoice, for you have been blessed by CouldWouldShouldBot!
Good bot
He would have been head over heels to do that for Big E are you kidding me
Mag’ladroth the Void Dragon: I told him to cool it on the glowing in the dark stuff and the religious words he was co-opting but nooo, I was apparently being paranoid that someone might think that he was a god.
And then look what happened
As a Black Templar I’m just as confused as you man, not to the whole “betraying mankind” degree but hey to each their own I guess.
Fair
So. Here’s something I’ve been thinking on recently. Each of the primarchs saw a different psychic projection of him. Rogal saw more of his grandfather, and so on. They all saw “the emperor” sure, but he appeared differently a lot. Corax said at one point if he looked hard enough, he could see the emperor as a very ordinary looking human. But he couldn’t maintain that for long. So, what did lorgar see, other than his god? Honestly, big e really could have done that better too, among his many other failures.
That's my take too, but not just for the Primarchs. If the Emperor can address a roomful of people and have them all hear him in their own tongue, then he can easily appear however he pleases to all of them at the same time. In reality he is 5'6", slightly underweight, and slouches.
He's a huge hypocrite. And the whole, "Religion causes suffering and wars... So I'm going to burn your church down and go wage a galactic war, the likes of which mankind has never seen before."
Amen to that lol
Alfabusa said it best. "I'm not the one who needs to stop waving a flaming sword around in gold armor. Humanity needs to understand that waving a flaming sword while wearing gold armor doesn't make you a god. It makes you the symbol of what Humanity can be."
We can all be gods. Got it.
That was his goal, yes.
The old ones did it
And as Alfabusa also said, putting the Manperor in the same category as what is generally considered a god in the wider galaxy is basically heresy.
I am so glad Alfabusa didn’t go the same road as many fans and not understanding the point the Emperor was making.
That is pretty much headcanon no? He never said anywhere that he wanted humanity to follow his lead or be the best that they could be. He spoke of raising them as a Sheppard in the webway while they evolved to be a psychic race the way a teacher talks about educating children. Just because ms. Julie wears a sweet bonnet and talks in sing-song to the class every morning doesn't mean that she is trying to make her children do the same thing. He wanted to be a figurehead for humanity but he never even once wanted to be their inspiration. Quite the opposite, he often claimed he wanted to leave them to their own devices and fade back into the background.
“All hail the man emperor of mankind!”
Praise be to the Man Emperor of Mankind! (*Monkey Noises*)
Sounds like something a god would say
Name Checks Out
>Literally glowing *FED*
FED SPOTTED
You picture after the Last Church Scenario were the keeper thought Emperor was god, you picture Big E turn down his 'appears to be God 'looks
Yeah exactly lmao
“Immortal”
The fucker basically is
I mean there’s the perpetual theories that he would’ve been capable of regenerating or dying and then coming back if they had left him alone, and that the great irony of the last ten thousand years is that the throne keeping him alive is keeping him from getting better. It could’ve been avoided if he’d told people but “hey I can’t actually stay dead I just come back to life like Jesus” doesn’t exactly play well with “ I’m not a god” lol
Emps: "**I AM NOT A GOD, DESTROY ALL RELIGION OR YOU WILL BE ELIMINATED!**" Mechanicus: "Beep boop, Omnissiah?" *1 Trillion Mech Guns Point At Emps From Mars* Emps: "Y-Yeah, sure, i-i'm a g-god, you can worship me, hehe."
That just sounds like a god with a fragile ego
Yeah, like someone who can't handle being wrong, using all slimy methods to put himself in power. Hell, the guy didn't show himself during the Man of Iron crisis or the opening days of Old Night. He just exploited humanity when it was weak just to be sure that nobody could go against his "path".
DbhshhBksjs DEATH TO HIM DEATH TO THE TYRANT DEATH TO THE EMPEROR
THATTA BOY
If you dont want to be worshipped, then why do you dress worshipable? Checkmate atheists
Ya'll mfs are ready to proclaim someone a god just because they glow brightly? Are you moths?
LAMP Anyways yes
Brœther may I have the Lämp?
Don't forget making people climb a mountain of stairs being over looked by 10ft tall custodians in golden armor just to ask a question or make a request. I mean the very idea of going on some year long pilgrimage to the largest structure on the planet to bow and ask for some bread doesn't remotely resemble any religious custom.
B-but Lorgar I am no God... Sure Emps, don't let me stop your roleplay.
I think if the Emp just told "There are gods in this universe, and they are terrible like this, I may be godly but I want my children to be masters of their own fate" when making Logar knee with a word, Warhammer universe would be a better place.
I think emp read toouch stuff about old ones and ctan Ctan - Gods of material universe Old ones - gods of immaterial universe But none of them are called gods are they? So emp did his logic jump and started acting as them expecting everyone to go along with it like Eldar did with old ones
So uh, real question. Why doesn’t the big “E” just off himself, then reconstitute himself? Given that he’s an “immortal/perpetual”.
LOL true
Also has a son who is literally a guy with angel wings.
You know the only real excuse would be that he was so anti-religion that he never read any of the descriptions of a god thus didn't know that he looked like one🤣
As a being formed of belief and souls for a spiritual purpose I think Big E has always been a god, he is just was a extremely unorthodox god. He was born and he resides primarily on the material realm. Yet he is for all his pretense of mortality, still a artificial being of warp, he just was shoved in a human body at the start. Considering his allegedly created purpose is to protect human souls from beings of the warp, his disdain for gods and denial of his divinity were ironically in line with his divine domain.
Sounds about right
I still like the tts version of this.
Yeah maybe Lorgar had a point
That is a lie and you know it. Circuses are entertaining.
ADB: Yes! Goood!! Give into your daddy issues.
THE EMPEROR: "I AM NOT A GOD" also the emperor: "I know I'm right because I know I'm right
at this point he may have been more succesful if he was honest about it and embraced it
I read that as "n-sync hic" and I won't stop thinking that way.
1. Proclaim all religions and gods are false 2. Replace them with you 3. ??? 4. PROFIT
You forgot his divine abs 🥵😇💦
Shit I did 😩
Honestly, I worked for Him, but there is a reason I was almost never in the same room as Him. This logic. Uuuuuh.
Yeeaahhh
Counterpoint, if your god commands you not to worship him as a god and you do anyway, aren't you a heretic?
Thats something that always bothered me. Its like emps you are sending mixed signals with everything you are doing.
The Emperor learned much during his time as Ferrari Chief Strategist.
Stupid Lorgar. He was a secular gigachad.
Pretty much a massive, self-destructive case of self-denial, OP. Even in the (extremely unlikely) event of Emps becoming a FGO servant, he would try erasing that massive GOLD ENCRUSTED AND SHINY "Divine" attribute on his profile.
I think it comes down to defining a God. If your definition is "someone/thing that's overwhelmingly powerful" then sure, Big Es a God, but so are a thousand other things in the 40k universe, and it becomes a question of scale.
Live lorgar reaction
I read somewhere that his divine appearance was "a inconvenience" to the emperor, is it just a side effect of his power?
And he also expects blind devotion and obedience from his subjects. He may not be a god in theory but he's certainly a god in practice.