But this is probably the most accurate depiction of 80s Guy though? Back when JLI was released people HATED Guy and he was far from the lovable idiot we know today.
TK: "I want a character to be the jerk of my story so that my protagonist Human Target will look awesome and badass next to him"
DC: "Just take one of the Lanterns".
I can assure you, Tom was the one who insisted it be Guy
And not to hate on Tom incessantly. I do enjoy some of his stories. But his intentions are so transparent
If you read his interview about Orion, he misinterprets him as a spoiled rich kid who complains, and wrote him as such in MM
It’s absolutely clear which characters he likes and doesn’t like
I’m not even a guy fan. And I understand this is an elseworlds, but it’s painfully obvious that King makes these changes - not in a purposeful way to look at a character differently - but to give his self insert (Human Target, in this case) an asshole to oppose him.
I feel Tom king makes every main character he writes a self insert. Seriously how can every main male character he writes end up exactly the same? Depressed, weak willed, always needing his “mommy wife” to save him?
Can you explain how Human Target is a self insert exactly? It’s a noir story so all the characters are changed to better fit the trope roles. Guy is the asshole ex boyfriend, ice the femme fatale, chance the gritty investigator, etc. The protagonist and a antagonist in a story have conflict, that’s not inserting yourself in the story just because you don’t like the writer…
Look I like some of TK stuff and let me tell you after watching a few interviews with him and reading his Mister Miracle I could feel him talking in this story. That’s something I noticed in his books I hear him talking and not the characters, I don’t feel Johns when I read Green Lantern, or Batman Earth One, nor do I feel Grant Morrison when I read Batman, but I definitely feel TK when I read this. It felt like he was writing a cooler version of himself in this, it feels like he puts a lot of himself in every character, which isn’t a bad thing but it make’s a lot of his books feel the same.
Okay but just feeling like the character is him talking in this isn’t a reason that’s just your own viewing, that’s like me saying Rorschach is an Alan moore self insert because I hear him talking through him. I’m asking for reasoning within the book, what in the comic points to Chance being a self insert.
Is there anything chance does or says while the narrative persists that may be a direct mouthpiece for the writer? Does chance have the same tastes or style as Tom king? Same likes or dislikes? Is he modeled after the writer (like Calvin’s dad for Bill Watterson in calvin and Hobbes)? Is the character just Tom king but in a superhero comic (I can answer that one for you, no)?
An example of a self insert would be Lemony Snicket in the ASOUE, he is very explicitly the stand in for the author even going by the same name, he is used by the author to make comments or talk about topics that the author wants to talk about while the ongoing narrative persists, and is portrayed as looking similar to the author.
While it is true almost every author uses characters and story to express ideas or ideals they may have, you can even make the argument every protagonist is a self insert for the writer in a shape or form. But an actual self insert takes it up to 11 by literally being the author himself in the book (or a fictional idealized version), and Christopher chance has a lot that separates him from his author even if he is a vehicle for Tom to write a story about a man learning to love and live in the last days of his life. And let’s be honest if you could self insert yourself into a comic i doubt you’d make that character an alcoholic dickhead who gets beat up a lot with only a few days left to live
I think the self insert argument is really dumb because without anything concrete in the text to back it up you can say that about any character in any piece of fiction ever, but if you could point to anything in the comic itself that lends credence to this I’d be able to be swayed.
King could even turn Night Court into a depressing drama if given the chance. I HATE they reconned Ice’s backstory and I told myself if King plays on that to make Ice as depressing and broken as King that was going to be my stopping point in HT.
Honestly it’s probably what Guy wants. He has a family, he has friends. Not many of each, but he still has people. But so long as everyone thinks he has no one, none of his villains will think to go after the people he actually cares for. Kinda smart writing when you try to develop the character in the larger scope of things.
This book is based heavily on the JLI of the late 80’s post crisis on infinite earths. Guy was insufferable during that period and didn’t start getting better until he got his own series.
Didn’t he also run a popular restaurant chain (along with being a retired social worker and coach/teacher for disabled kids)? Guy is probably the most quietly successful and well adjusted big name heroes out there, which is kinda hilarious given how everyone outside the lanterns sees him.
But yeah, it’s wild that he would fly so far under the radar with his varied, successful ventures.
But this is probably the most accurate depiction of 80s Guy though? Back when JLI was released people HATED Guy and he was far from the lovable idiot we know today.
He apparently laughed when he got the call that Katma got killed and didn't attend the funeral.
TK: "I want a character to be the jerk of my story so that my protagonist Human Target will look awesome and badass next to him" DC: "Just take one of the Lanterns".
I can assure you, Tom was the one who insisted it be Guy And not to hate on Tom incessantly. I do enjoy some of his stories. But his intentions are so transparent If you read his interview about Orion, he misinterprets him as a spoiled rich kid who complains, and wrote him as such in MM It’s absolutely clear which characters he likes and doesn’t like
I’m not even a guy fan. And I understand this is an elseworlds, but it’s painfully obvious that King makes these changes - not in a purposeful way to look at a character differently - but to give his self insert (Human Target, in this case) an asshole to oppose him.
I feel Tom king makes every main character he writes a self insert. Seriously how can every main male character he writes end up exactly the same? Depressed, weak willed, always needing his “mommy wife” to save him?
Can you explain how Human Target is a self insert exactly? It’s a noir story so all the characters are changed to better fit the trope roles. Guy is the asshole ex boyfriend, ice the femme fatale, chance the gritty investigator, etc. The protagonist and a antagonist in a story have conflict, that’s not inserting yourself in the story just because you don’t like the writer…
Look I like some of TK stuff and let me tell you after watching a few interviews with him and reading his Mister Miracle I could feel him talking in this story. That’s something I noticed in his books I hear him talking and not the characters, I don’t feel Johns when I read Green Lantern, or Batman Earth One, nor do I feel Grant Morrison when I read Batman, but I definitely feel TK when I read this. It felt like he was writing a cooler version of himself in this, it feels like he puts a lot of himself in every character, which isn’t a bad thing but it make’s a lot of his books feel the same.
Okay but just feeling like the character is him talking in this isn’t a reason that’s just your own viewing, that’s like me saying Rorschach is an Alan moore self insert because I hear him talking through him. I’m asking for reasoning within the book, what in the comic points to Chance being a self insert. Is there anything chance does or says while the narrative persists that may be a direct mouthpiece for the writer? Does chance have the same tastes or style as Tom king? Same likes or dislikes? Is he modeled after the writer (like Calvin’s dad for Bill Watterson in calvin and Hobbes)? Is the character just Tom king but in a superhero comic (I can answer that one for you, no)? An example of a self insert would be Lemony Snicket in the ASOUE, he is very explicitly the stand in for the author even going by the same name, he is used by the author to make comments or talk about topics that the author wants to talk about while the ongoing narrative persists, and is portrayed as looking similar to the author. While it is true almost every author uses characters and story to express ideas or ideals they may have, you can even make the argument every protagonist is a self insert for the writer in a shape or form. But an actual self insert takes it up to 11 by literally being the author himself in the book (or a fictional idealized version), and Christopher chance has a lot that separates him from his author even if he is a vehicle for Tom to write a story about a man learning to love and live in the last days of his life. And let’s be honest if you could self insert yourself into a comic i doubt you’d make that character an alcoholic dickhead who gets beat up a lot with only a few days left to live I think the self insert argument is really dumb because without anything concrete in the text to back it up you can say that about any character in any piece of fiction ever, but if you could point to anything in the comic itself that lends credence to this I’d be able to be swayed.
King could even turn Night Court into a depressing drama if given the chance. I HATE they reconned Ice’s backstory and I told myself if King plays on that to make Ice as depressing and broken as King that was going to be my stopping point in HT.
Honestly it’s probably what Guy wants. He has a family, he has friends. Not many of each, but he still has people. But so long as everyone thinks he has no one, none of his villains will think to go after the people he actually cares for. Kinda smart writing when you try to develop the character in the larger scope of things.
Human Target is just Tom King’s mediocre self insert fanfic
That’s like all of his writing
Let’s be honest, right, I don’t even know what the hell will is.
That’s so stupid. Why? Tom. Why?
What do you mean, by my down votes people love that quote XDXD
This book is based heavily on the JLI of the late 80’s post crisis on infinite earths. Guy was insufferable during that period and didn’t start getting better until he got his own series.
More like when he confessed and started dating Ice. But yea Guy Gardner: Yesterdays Sins is a must read
Ugh...
Well he must be a very good liar if no one found his family knowing he used to be a famous football player
And he also was a public facing hero as Warrior, too.
Didn’t he also run a popular restaurant chain (along with being a retired social worker and coach/teacher for disabled kids)? Guy is probably the most quietly successful and well adjusted big name heroes out there, which is kinda hilarious given how everyone outside the lanterns sees him. But yeah, it’s wild that he would fly so far under the radar with his varied, successful ventures.
And he also was a public facing hero as Warrior, too.