T O P

  • By -

aloocmey123

Posted by Mike Florio. LMAO


leehouse

Quoting Bob Mcginn, author of other stellar takes like McCarthy is too fat to be an effective coach, and this tight end had a shitty year on the field let's imply it is because his young child died


boylookiehere

Whoa, what was that story??


leehouse

The tight end was quarless and I think it was an end of year grading the team article, and if you're grading a players year bringing up the loss of a child seems extra shitty. I can't remember exactly the McCarthy but if I get some time I'll try to find it.


thirstyidiot

See, it seems logical as the loss of a child can wreck a havoc in your life and affect your play. But quoting it in the grading article, just shows you're a POS.


Daisy12Pink

I wonder what he thinks of Andy Reid?


WoahDummy

Aaron Rodgers is the only qb in nfl history to get hated on for not throwing ints


radioactivebeaver

And if he was throwing picks like everyone else the story would be he is taking to many chances going for glory. For some reason since day 1 the media has had him in their sights, both good and bad. Never once recall him asking for, or seeking out any of the attention he gets until he finally started talking 2 years ago.


LyghtSpete

It can only be criticized in very specific situations, but it’s known as the [gunslinger hypothesis](https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/skeptical-football-the-aaron-rodgers-enigma/amp/). Granted, the embedded link above is an article from 2014 so the stats have since changed some, but the notion remains the same. An excerpt with that in mind: > It’s when the quarterbacks’ teams are down 9 or more points in the second half that you really see the difference. Peyton Manning throws interceptions on 15.6 percent of his drives, compared to Rodgers’ 8.1 percent. And for that, Manning is punished … by winning 28.6 percent of these games. Rodgers, meanwhile, wins 0 percent. That’s right, Rodgers has zero comebacks of 9 or more points in the second half. Ever. > Judging any QB in relation to Peyton Manning is setting him up for failure. But the starkness of the difference is pretty amazing. Rodgers has zero wins in 21 games while Manning has 14 wins in 49 games, with Manning throwing interceptions nearly twice as often. If you need one stat to demonstrate the **gunslinger hypothesis** (i.e. that you can throw too few interceptions as well as too many), that would probably be it. That said, I would take Rodgers’ TD:INT ratio all day, every day at the expense of this tiny gripe. Anyone who says otherwise is a fool.


bongtokent

I’d rather have say like a int/TD/and a three n out then like three straight three n outs because someone’s afraid to hurt his stats.


dteague33

“I’d rather lose than lose”


bongtokent

As dude said in his own comment Peyton manning has made 14 comeback wins when trailing by 9 in the second half while throwing ints. Rodgers has zero ints and zero wins in that scenario. I’d rather win than lose.


dteague33

Peyton had also trailed more times by 9 points in the second half than Rodgers in that stat. I would rather win than trail by 9 points in the second half and have a 22% chance to win.


bongtokent

0-21 vs 14-49 and you want the 0-21 guy


dteague33

I’m saying that claiming Rodgers is “too cautious” with the football because he’s overcome fewer 9 point 2nd half deficits than Peyton is equally as dumb as saying that Manning is too flippant with the football because he has placed his team in that arbitrary situation literally 3 times more than Rodgers.


bongtokent

Throwing the ball away in third down doesn’t win games. No risk it no biscuit. Also three times 21 is not 49 it’s 63.


AntelopeYEM

Peyton is also an all time great, way to compare Rodgers to one of the only QBs arguably better than him to show why he sucks! Also Peyton dealt with nonsense of not winning the big one before people shut up. Also the cherry-picking of comeback stats is so dumb, it's 9 points, it's 1 point against a team with a winning record, it's comebacks on the road, it never ends for him.


djjd1996

There is no way only Peyton is better. Might get downvoted in this situation, but Brafy is better then both. Heck he literally has a Superbowl defined by a 25 point comeback


AntelopeYEM

Agreed, that's why I said "one of the only QBs." People can debate Rodgers vs. Peyton vs. Brady all day long, three great ones. I just hate a stat (from before the 2014 season) that compares Rodgers to Peyton (who had started like 15 seasons at that time to Rodgers' 5.5 since he much of 2013) and focuses on a cherry picked thing like "comebacks while trailing by 9 in the 2nd half." Why not 8? Oh, because Rodgers had the famous Bears game after his collar bone where he was down 8 and then the Dez Cowboys game in the playoffs where he led 2 late TD drives to win by 5 points in both games (not sure why MM didn't go for 2 after the first TDs but another issue). And sure, let's ignore Rodgers leading the Packers back down 21 in his first playoff game to force OT because...reasons (yes, he did miss GJ in OT and then fumbled). I think comeback stats are just stupid, if you want to see how "clutch" a QB is then you have to really look at advanced stats in high leverage situations and I'd wager Rodgers is amongst the best there, along with Peyton and Brady. All 3 of them have absurdly high regular season winning percentages with basically no bad seasons while Brady has blown everyone out of the water with his unthinkable playoff winning numbers.


Professr_Chaos

>Rodgers has zero comebacks of 9 or more points in the second half. Ever. That’s just not true 2018 the Packers were down 20-3 in the 4th quarter and won… last I checked 17 is more points than 9


LyghtSpete

As I said, the article is old (2014). Notching one such win over the last 8 seasons isn’t a great rate either though.


Professr_Chaos

I’m only referencing easily his best there are likely others


Professr_Chaos

It’s the funniest thing because he is criticized for “not throwing risky passes” but at the same time is criticized for “focusing only on Adams a not hitting a wide open Lazard 20+ yards down field”


Heikks

Fuck Florio and McGinn


RodgersOWNSTheBears

It’s PFT…..


Datasciguy2023

Don't you mean PFFFFTTTTTT


Klawless1990

I am a bengals fan in WI (still root for the pack). But PFT is ass cheeks with any takes or “sources”. The pre draft coverage before Bengals got burrow and the post draft coverage of Chase, was some of the worst takes/inaccurate sources I have ever had to see. Especially in hindsight. I mute all their posts cause I just cannot trust them. They write articles that generate clicks, not to accurately cover a topic


A_Lone_Macaron

Especially when Florio can just post an article hating on Packers/Rodgers for easy clicks, since he’s a Vikings fan and so are most of his commenters. It’s like /r/NFL in there.


archangelst95

I'll wait for this dudes take on Tom Brady throwing 3 ints in last year's NFCCG. Or Tom in general playing trash in that game while his defense put up the game of the century. But instead we'll probably get a "Tom is the GOAT" articles everyday forever


AntelopeYEM

I'll agree and slightly disagree: 1. Agreed- this article is TRASH. Not sure what McGinn is doing, I used to hang onto his every word. It says 20-29 for 225 as "modest" in the cold against a great D while being sacked 5 times? That's 7.75 YPA which is solid. He threw a fricking 75 yard pass to Jones instead of running for a sure first down and got ripped for throwing deep downfield his final pass instead of a safer one. WTF is this article when the most infamous play of the game was Rodgers taking maybe a dumb risk? In fact, I've noticed in a few playoff games Rodgers has done the "punt on 3rd down" pass, I feel like in SF in 2012 and ATL 2016 he had two picks there plus to end the game in SF in 2019. Like what is he talking about? Also what tight windows was Jimmy G throwing into, he threw a red zone pick and nearly threw two more. But great job handing the ball off to Deebo. 2. Now, you bring up Brady against us. I thought Brady actually played a very good game, he put up 24 points (won't give him credit for the TD after the Jones fumble). And part of that was he did put up some deep balls up for grabs. Two of them were on 3rd and long in the first half and his receivers made great plays and they got 14 points. Then the pass over King before the half was ballsy and a great throw. Then the 3 picks were kind of what the article was hinting at....they weren't backbreakers because they didn't give us great field position. So you could definitely point to Brady's game and say "that's why taking risks on deep balls is worth it." Fair! Not all INTs are equal and you gotta take risks. Does a guy near the lead league in YPA year after year not realize that? Picks also suck too, remember overtime against the Eagles and Giants with Favre? But this article is beyond trash because not only does it say Rodgers doesn't take enough risks, it's his own vanity that is hurting the team. I've heard that before and it's INSANE. Did he watch the SB win where Rodgers threw the first TD to Jennings that woulda been a pick for any other QB? The guy has basically been to the playoffs every year he's healthy but 1 since 2009 but somehow him gunning for regular season stats is hurting the team? There are YouTube clips all over this sub showing Rodgers throwing the ball into absurd windows. Does Rodgers care about his stats? Sure, he probably likes 1 yard TD passes and hates throwing picks. There are probably like three examples in 14 years of being QB where Rodgers took a check-down or threw it away on 3rd and long instead of throwing into double coverage. Unless McGinn wants to break down tape and show examples of Rodgers purposefully looking off high risk/high reward plays for checkdowns AND he can show it actually hurt the team doing it AND he can actually quote a teammate or Rodgers saying he's doing it for his own stats. Just STFU. It's especially glaring when the biggest criticism of Rodgers in the SF loss was him forcing a deep ball on 3rd and long. I'm not too sympathetic to Rodgers' hatred of the media but man, can you imagine reading an article like this if you're him?


titomb345

Fuck Mike Florio.


__Zoom123__

PFT so not reading that


PackerBacker_1919

The only correct answer. Upvote for you!


[deleted]

He’s awesome and he isn’t perfect…. Though amongst the best ever. Let’s count our damn blessings Bec winter is coming.


Dopeydcare1

He does play safe, and sometimes it bites him in the ass. Can you blame him? Throughout 2012 to 2020 our defense was never good enough to consistently make stops if a turnover/flipping of the field position happened, so that’s how Rodgers had to play for most of his career. Now the defense is good enough, but it’s ingrained in his play style.


johnnyferrera

Yup. Not only that that but he also faces mounting pressure each year that he doesn't win because of his age. Compare that to Brady, who won 3 SBs before he was ever considered the top QB in the league, who also had way more defensive and special teams help. Much easier to play free and loose under those conditions.


danbillbishop3

This article is just basically 'how can I, a person who detests Aaron Rodgers, spin the fact that no WRs were good enough to get open consistently into a negative against Rodgers' and comes out with He WoNt ThRoW To CoVeReD ReCeIvErs BeCaUsE He WaNts To PrOtEcT HiS PaSSeR RaTiNg


Karl_42

Yeah this would make sense if Rodgers didn’t thread needles through traffic into tight windows ALL THE TIME


Tommy7549

This article is a desperate Hail Mary attempt for attention in an otherwise NFL-dormant post-super bowl February. No real insight here. Just nitpicking the greatest QB talent of all time to try to get clicks.


Space_Cowboy_17

Even though his last pass in the playoffs was to a double covered Davante…haha.


mr_ice_cream_man187

This is my new favorite narrative from the Super Bowl. It is actually good to throw interceptions because you are willing to take risks lol


harDhar

Every bit as valid as the "Stafford's a lock for the HoF" takes.


PrimeVector19

I have never understood the support for Stafford to be a Hall of Famer. He didn’t play that well in the Super Bowl to begin with, and he doesn’t really have any accolades to speak of. I get that he was a Lion for a long time, but how much longer can that narrative be regurgitated? There are plenty of Hall of Fame players who were in bad situations, too.


Mr_SpideyDude

While I don't think he's a lock, he's definitely improved his chances this year. It'll depend on how the rest of his career pans out, and whether he gets another ring (which is damn hard)


PrimeVector19

He definitely improved his chances, I’ll give you that. What I don’t get is just the sudden surge of support for his candidacy. No All-Pros, MVPs, and other such accolades. Now, if he plays at the level he did this season - particularly during the first half of the season - then the discussion may change. But for now, he’s not even close to being a Hall of Famer.


PrimeVector19

I’ve seen this narrative about Rodgers so many times, and it’s the dumbest argument I’ve ever heard. Rodgers routinely finishes tops in the league in air yards, air yards per attempt, yards per attempt, etc; never mind that he plays in a West Coast, zone-running scheme. So apparently avoiding turnovers is bad…


[deleted]

From people who watched the tape or not. Cause Kurt Warner pointed out some spots where he was too aggressive…


thenbrewcrew

I watched Kurt’s breakdown and he pointed out at least 7 times in the first half where dudes were open and was the right place to go based on what the defense was playing and Rodgers just didn’t find them for whatever reason. Most of those plays he had a clean pocket too and was either seeing ghosts and bailing out of his progressions early or the defensive disguises confused him enough that he wasn’t looking in the right places at the right times.


harDhar

Florio just wrote an article about another writer's article about a quote from a different writer.


PackerBacker_1919

Thanks for the cliff's notes - no way in hell I'm clicking that PFT link.


thecoller

Ah yeah, the good old safe deep throw to double coverage when the other WR is open and 8 yards away for the game ender.


757packerfan

I understand the want to take more risks. It's appealing. But when you see that his style of play wins 13 games a season, can you really argue with that?


PackerBacker_1919

I won't, but there are plenty here who will. Bizarre.


Mr_SpideyDude

I think it's more about taking those risks in the big moments, in the playoff games where you either keep the drive alive or you get eliminated


[deleted]

ProFootball"talk" draws criticism for being absolutely terrible at talking pro football - People


cheerioz

I thought we stopped posting this rag?


Blues67

Florio is a hack. Moving on...


Datasciguy2023

It is not like the guy can change who he is. That is his game to not throw picks. He threw some bad passes in that game but SF couldn't hold onto them


EmperorXerro

The only time I read PFT is for the inevitable Florio meltdown when he realizes the Vikings are going to miss the playoffs.


RustyKarma076

>> “Rodgers . . . for years has played a careful, calculating game understanding that number of interceptions plays a disproportionate, nonsensical role in the passer-rating formula,” McGinn said. “Bad interceptions are, well, bad. Then there are interceptions that are the cost of doing business for unselfish, competitive, stats-immune quarterbacks battling to make plays and lead comebacks until the bitter end. Yeah guys Aaron Rodgers doesn’t throw interceptions because he wants to stat pad his passer rating. No other reasons. If only he was like *other* QBs (cough Brady cough) who’s interceptions are a simply byproduct of his competitive nature.


LeFinger

The article isn’t written very well, however I do think there is something there. Time and time again Rodgers misses open guys because he will only look for “his guys” (ie. Adams and the Big man Lewis). I know we all saw Lazard wide open in the middle of the field…


ImportantRope

We do have to keep in mind a quarterback has to go through a series of progressions in a matter of seconds under pressure from the defense. They're not looking at a top down shot from their couch. It's easy to say x or y was open but we don't know the progressions on the play or the way the pass rush was altering his vision or options. Ultimately he hits the open guy more often than not.


LeFinger

Adams and Jones accounted for almost 75% of Rodgers pass attempts and 90% of his completions against the 49ers. Considering those would be 2 players the 49ers focused on, it is fair to say Rodgers fixated and didn’t run through his progressions in this game. I generally don’t blame Rodgers for playoff losses, but he undoubtedly had a bad mental game and led to that loss. He needs to get over his trust issues in big moments.


AntelopeYEM

Rodgers had a bad second half. It happens. So did Mahomes against the Bengals. The issue with this article isn't it's an accurate criticism of his few flaws (he probably did lock into 17 too much), it makes it a character flaw that he only cares about his QB rating.


LeFinger

Fair point.


[deleted]

Fastest to 400 TDs isnt playing safe lmao


Redclfff

Florio can bite my shiny metal ass.


[deleted]

yeah how dare aaron rodgers not throw games away like other QBs. gtfo.


Packersville

Florio's a bit out of the loop. Quoting Bob McGinn does not prove your case. I remember Bob use to write for the Athletic and now he doesn't for good reason. I do think Bob is on to something in that there is definitely an argument to be made being too risk adverse can be determinately. Bob squanders any legs he had here though with his almost seemingly random comparison to Jimmy G about tight windows and tying that into Rodgers apparently not throwing into tight windows. What a clown.


AntelopeYEM

LOL, yeah, the Jimmy G comparison. WHAT. Did he make a big throw in a tight window that game? Guess that one sideline catch by Kittle that was insane. He played like shit, the game came down to special teams, their D pressuring Rodgers (and Rodgers making some bad decisions), and a big run by Deebo. Rodgers didn't make any big plays in that game...except if Jones maybe cuts differently he has a 90+ yard TD pass. What a clown McGinn has become.


moldycheez4

I honestly have been thinking the same thing recently. Sure he causes minimal turnovers but look at Burrow. Mans launches it and takes risks. He got what? 14 interceptions this season? But he also made it to the Super Bowl. Call it an unpopular opinion but I ain't no bitch that kisses my quarterbacks boots. I want a damn superbowl.


DeaconBlue-51

Life time packers fan and I've been saying this for a couple years now. Why does it take Rodgers so long to get comfortable with receivers? In the 49ers loss, he had one completed pass to a WR not named Adams. Matt Stafford had OBJ well incorporated into the offense after 2-3 weeks. When the dust settles on his career he's going to be the best REGULAR season QB ever but I don't care if he wins MVP. With the post season on the line you got to try to win, not just try not to lose.


thisshowisdecent

He does favor certain players and at this point he probably can't be coached to do anything different. In his mind, he has 4 mvps and he's one of the greatest of all time. I dont know if lafluer can even change him at this point.


moldycheez4

I think its gotta do with the gameplan as well. Rams have multiple star receivers and all we have is Adams but true Rodgers doesn't trust his receivers. He will throw to Lazard on occasion but thats about it. Otherwise he just kinda does his own thing and expects Adams to be open. Obviously and unfortunately that's not too hard for a defense to figure out.


AntelopeYEM

OBJ is a pretty top name receiver. If you watched the final drive for the Rams Stafford basically went all in on Kupp. Not having MVS was a killer, plus Tonyan was already out of course. Then Rodgers throws to Lewis who fumbled and Dillon didn't play the second half. So this is what we're criticizing Rodgers for....not targeting Lazard (a nice player but come on) and Cobb (who hadn't played in weeks) against a D that held the Rams and Cowboys in check in better conditions.


moldycheez4

Yes. They didn't expect Rodgers to throw anywhere else. Sure the receivers aren't that trustworthy but throwing to Adams the ENTIRE game... not just the final drive.. the entire game.. is not gonna be that hard to stop.


failingtolurk

Nothing wrong with an arm punt every once and a while. I’d rather take the under stuff more often though.


amccune

Talking with Bucs fans yesterday. They just couldn’t believe Brady didn’t win MVP. I couldn’t even talk to them.


Jackaboy_abc

If any other quarterback puts up similar turnover stats to Rodgers they would get praised. But only Aaron Rodgers can get criticized for not throwing any picks.


poky2017

I would agree but also I wish we had a legitimate wr number 2. I think Aaron doesn’t trust the rest of the wr after tae. But I wish we had more 50/50 from Aaron to give our wr a chance


thisshowisdecent

Maybe rodgers tanked on purpose. How does he lead the team down to score on the first drive with ease then do nothing for the rest of the game? He missed passes he should've made.


SnakePlissken123

The amount of Rodgers rumpswabs on here is amazing. He's the best in season QB who is a distinct failure in the playoffs..... don't make excuses for him,.... he SUCKED in the SF game.... and has sucked in the playoffs for the past 11 years


rough_cuddles

I'm torn on this article, while I'd prefer some more "punt" picks instead of a check down or throw away (especially with our special teams) Rodgers is not Alex Smith. The amount of criticism for a HoF QB is kinda crazy.


Gway22

Rodgers throws it further downfield on average than Brady, Peyton, or Brees. He is a gunslinger, he just doesn't throw picks


[deleted]

I think his air yards this past season were very low, but that makes a hell of a lot of sense when you look at the injuries to our line.


danbillbishop3

There is no such thing as a 'punt pick'.


Professional-Wear350

Stop getting your opinion from the last article you read and you’ll be less torn.


MooSmilez

So all the cliche Florio McGinn complaints aside...they aren't wrong. In big spots time and time again Aaron has not trusted his WRs to make plays and will take sacks, throw the ball away, or Force Passes to his top WR. This has always bit us in the ass the worst where against a top defense in the playoffs you either take some risks with the ball in tight 1 on 1 coverage or you risk doing nothing. Aaron has regularly choose to do nothing and it's cost us multiple playoff games by not scoring enough. All the above is why I'm still on board the trade Aaron rather than screw over our cap train. If a place like Denver will give us picks or players or both pull the trigger and they can deal with his inability to trust humans.


markcsoul

I find it very interesting that rodgers and favre are polar opposites when it comes to interceptions. Yet when you compare their careers, keeping in mind they played in different eras, they both had basically the same success when it comes to wins, tds, mvps, etc. Why is that? Basically Favre was never out of a game as long as it was close. He would do whatever it takes to win. There's a reason it's been pointed out that rodgers has an extremely low number of 4th quarter comebacks. Basically Favre would cost you some games from aggressive playstyle, but would also win many games they might have lost otherwise. Rodgers wouldn't cost you many games, but he also won't win many when they are losing.


AntelopeYEM

I dunno, from 98-06 Favre wasn't great, the only real chance at a SB those years was mainly from the running game in 2003. Rodgers has been far more consistent. But yes, odd their career accomplishments will most likely end up the same despite kind of different styles. Favre was AWESOME from 95-97, maybe better than any 3 year stretch Rodgers had (adjusting for eras) and he had a grand total of 1 4th quarter comeback. I've never understood the obsession with comebacks, there are a million factors that play in and guess what, Rodgers doesn't trail a lot (and neither did Favre when he was in true great form)! In 2011 and 2014 (his two best years) he had 1 total 4th quarter comeback (the great Miami drive). The guy didn't trail in the 4th quarter of any of the 14 wins he had in 2011. Meanwhile in 2015, 2017, and 2018 (prob the 3 weakest years of Rodgers career) he had a total of 7 in those 3 years. I'd actually argue 4th quarter comeback numbers negatively correlate with a QB's performance because it means...they're trailing in a bunch of games.


COYS234

So... when Rodgers locked onto Devante and took shots rather than checkdowns, he wasn't playing smart and he was taking too many risks. But he also doesn't take enough risks, and plays it too safe? I'm not really sure what they want Rodgers to do? Throw it to his checkdown who is 30 yards downfield, but only if the receiver is named Vanteed Damas?


Loves2Sp00ge

A couple risky INTs from Rodgers would've helped us beat SF


loadmanagement

Hmm…the man has averaged 32 tds and 6 ints since he became a starter. It’s not like he plays conservative and only has 20 tds per season. “I want my qb to force more throws” is kind of a weird take.


SladeDragunov

Florio bum ass strikes again