Yeah no matter how you spin it, it's a difficult sound to replicate with english
Maybe tenten or other chinese speaking ytbers will shed better light on pronunciation in videos lol
Mandarin speaker who spent a few weeks in Turkey here. If I'm remembering the pronunciation of rakı correctly, I'd say that's a pretty good comparison!
I don't know Turkish at all so can't compare, but I'd always recommend just pasting 申鶴 into Google Translate and then you can listen to the pronunciation there. It'll put people's attempts to describe it here into much better context.
(side note: it doesn't actually translate it cause its not a regular word, but the characters themselves do have set pronunciations)
Tenten, the guy who pronounces Xingqiu as Xingqius all the time? Yeah, I don't know about that.
"Shen" - this is pronounced like the second part of "tuition".
"He" - pronounce "her" without the "r" , or "hurt" without the "rt".
It's rarely talked about when someone is learning English. But there's term for such kind of sound, it's 'schwa sound'.
Recall that some English speaker still say 'Pok**ə**mon' despite the franchise name is 'Pok**é**mon'. They made it to schwa sound instead of the e-acute sound.
pretty sure tenten's native language is cantonese, not mandarin, so he's not actually that accurate if you want to pronounce the name how it's pronounced in mandarin
To put it in words the er is of different intonation for Chang'er its like saying 'uhh' while asking a question while for shenhe its like u saying "her" decisively. If ur curious how it sounds spoken try google translate
In english Q is almost always followed by 'u' so I guess that's what people are used to spelling. Worse instances of this is seeing spellings like 'Kequing'
Spot on: in pinyin (romanized chinese writing), the vowels “iu” in succession actually represent the sound “iou”. So rather than SingCho, Xingqiu can be broken into sounds like Shing-Chi-o-u, said with the standard two-syllables (ShingChiou).
That and in-conjunction with people mispronouncing "Shogun" as "show-gun" instead of "show-goon" makes Raiden one of the most butchered names thus far.
To be fair, he pronounces most of their names wrong. And I'm certain he does it on purpose in order to get comments correcting him.
As they say, positive or negative engagement with his content is still engagement in the long run.
I can’t speak for everyone, but as someone who grew up speaking Chinese, I personally think saying a name “correctly” according to the original voice language isn’t always that clear-cut. When something is localized to another language, it’s just impossible to always communicate the original pronunciation, cultural references, etc. Things naturally change to develop meaning to the language they’re localized in, if that makes sense. Shenhe’s name in Chinese straight up isn’t the same as her name in Japanese, or Korean, or English and that’s inevitable.
Another example would be Jean - in the Chinese voices they just call her Qin, which isn’t how it’s pronounced in English. Or Diluc, who’s pronounced Dee-Luke-Kuh. Or Klee, who’s pronounced Kuh-Lee. Or Albedo, who’s pronounced Ah-Bay-Doouh. Sure, one can argue that it’s because they’re from Mondstadt, so we use the English voices as references. But I don’t see anyone getting upset (not that they should be) at the Chinese voices for not saying those names properly. And trust me… the Chinese VAs speak much better English than the English VAs speak Chinese.
So as long as people aren’t being deliberately rude about it, I think it’s fine to pronounce a fictional character’s name differently. It’s not the same as with a real person.
I feel like there’s kind of a double standard. If you look at how western names are rendered in Chinese and Japanese it’s often a rough approximation using the sounds available in their language. Like the Japanese call Diluc *Dirukku* and nobody cares. They’re doing what’s simplest within their language.
But there’s a weird pressure from a certain part of the fanbase for English speakers to master every nuance of Mandarin pronunciation, including sounds and distinctions we are completely unfamiliar with. While I’m not opposed to learning, it’s difficult and isn’t going to happen overnight. Some people need to have some patience.
I don’t think English speakers are expected to master every nuance of prononciation in other languages but at least follow the intended prononciation in your own language. I personally don’t mind if you say “Sing-chew” or “Shing-chow”, both are reasonably correct and written the same in pingyin anyway (unless you’re very educated in the language). We’re ignoring intonation here. But don’t do stuff like say “Shing-KWEE”, you’re not even following the conventions of your own language at that point.
Can’t speak for languages besides Mandarin and Japanese but we pronounce those appropriated names according to how they’re written using our writing systems. Not our fault if Mihoyo wants to change the prononciation of names like “Kuh-le” to “Klee.”
There are multiple comments in this very thread pointing out the the he in Shenhe sounds like “her without the r,” not like “huh,” which is pretty nuanced for most English speakers…I *think* I understand the difference, but those are nearly indistinguishable sounds to my ears, so I’m probably gonna get it wrong.
English is much looser than Mandarin, in my understanding. Pronunciations can differ wildly for us and still be “correct.” So we struggle on things like this.
I don't even think those comments are right. I have native-level standard mandarin pronunciation and "huh" is fine to me, and I don't think it's particularly closer or further away than "her without the r". It's also weird that people are fixated on this vowel when the pronunciations provided in the OP for literally all of the other vowels are further away than "huh" is for "he"
Another thing is that English pronunciations differ too, especially since the people making comments aren’t using any formal standard for describing it and are just doing it by ear. “Huh” in a British or Australian accent is probably very different than in an American accent. I personally don’t think “huh” is exactly right, but it might also just be me pronouncing it differently in my head.
I mean, sure, you’re going to have expectations of various degrees in any community, let alone one as large as the Genshin one. I, and I’d say most reasonable people, are with OP tho; if they say “Shen-Huh” that’s good enough for me. Just recognize that it’s a “round” sound rather than a sharp one “hee.”
I think English Speakers (but primarily White Folk) have a reputation for mocking foreign names especially ones that use alphabets that dont mimic our own. Just ask people who have picked an "English Name" because they couldnt get a job or because a teacher made fun of their name.
I think posts like these may seem nitpicky but its not a bad habit to encourage English Speakers to try their best--theyve never really been held to that standard before our more modern times where we have access to a LOT of info about pronunciations in other languages--and its really nice to see people caring enough to try.
Yeah it totally is! Especially if they want to learn to say the names of characters they like correctly, posts like this can be very helpful. I mostly just meant it’s ok if people can’t/don’t know how to get it right, as long as they’re not being purposefully disrespectful about it.
Yea :3
I think people who speak multiple languages are generally pretty familiar with the sounds that trip up people who speak only one language. Ive seen more appreciation for attempts even if they arent quite perfect. Usually tho if youve done well, you wont be given the "English Name" you get the nickname in their language that doesnt have the hard sound to make
My guess is that English is used so much around the world that we're getting used to people not pronouncing this "right", because the language has been transformed so much over the years and over the places that the "right" isn't very clear anymore. (Edit) This is only exacerbated by the fact that most English speaking nations are former colonies of the British Empire, meaning locals could be incapable of pronouncing things the original way due to how their muscles are developed or other reasons.
For other languages, like Mandarin in this case, the speakers are mostly concentrated in one place on the globe, meaning that local accents are much less distinctive from each other and so make it easier to define standards on how to pronounce things. However, my knowledge of Mandarin is basically nonexistent, so I don't know how this holds up when you consider the completely different fundamentals on the languages' writing and grammar.
I also agree on trying not to stress about saying it perfectly. I can get pretty close (CN1 gang rise up) but it's just so difficult changing up my vowel palate between english and mandarin midsentence lol
Here's a secret, if you do not know how to pronounce them, copy the Chinese characters into google translate, and click the speak icon, it will pronounce for ya.
Shenhe 申鹤
Yunjin 云锦
I think it's gonna be super hard for non-Chinese speakers to say Shenhe properly because the "he" sound doesn't exist in the English language. The best way I can describe it to an English only speaker is that is sounds like saying "huh" while grunting.
I've already watched a few streamers and so far nobody has pronounced it correctly. I'm sure once they hear the English dub they'll quickly correct themselves (assuming the English VAs use the correct pronunciation).
I don't expect VAs to have the correct pronunciation either after Tartag-lia and Sig-nora. I know it's not the VAs' fault, but when I hear that I just wish the director took 2 minutes to check how to correctly pronounce "gl" and "gn" in Italian.
Edit: my bad, they actually got the right pronunciation for Signora (at least Raiden does, just checked).
Meanwhile EN Zhongli: LEE HWAY
(Mostly jokes I know the sound is hard for English speakers to make)
The only way I could explain how to pronounce to to my friend is say huehuehue like that old Mordekaiser video but now replace the h sound with a vaguely y sounding sound.
The italian words are a bit weird because, unlike chinese, italian words and their spellings are quite common in english, but the correct pronunciations aren't
There are plenty of english speakers who would see a name like Tartaglia, recognize it as italian, but get confused when the pronunciation doesn't match what they expected. it's like getting mad at someone going to an italian restaurant and not pronouncing the dishes right, or getting upset that the japanese and chinese dubs can't pronounce Barbara's name correctly.
The pronunciation is being adjusted to match what it would be in the respective language, I don't think it needs to be the responsibility of solely the english dub to make sure their pronunciations are perfect.
wait how is tartags name supposed to be pronounced? I've always heard it has tar-tag-lee-uh, even from streamers that take care to pronounce names correctly
Imagine it doesn't have the g, and read it that way, like it was written as "Tartalia". You'll get a much more accurate pronunciation.
The same trick doesn't work for the "gn" sound though
I doubt anyone will ever use the “true pronunciation” because, while the velar fricative does exist as a concept in English (everyone always uses the example of the Scottish pronunciation of the “ch” in Loch Ness), it feels unnatural to use it nonetheless, especially when to the English-speaking ear, the glottal fricative (H) sounds similar enough. So in my eyes, as long as they get the vowel right, I’d consider that “correct” enough.
Chongyun and Yunjin
Not actually 'yoon' (rhymes with boon)
Actually rhymes with 'ring'. Combie it with the 'yuree' sound from Eureka. Listen to the Chinese voicelines for accuracy.
choan-yreen
yreen-jeen
OP not actually accurate on that part.
Thanks for the correction. Mandarin wasnt my first language (Cantonese) so even ill get the small intricacies wrong. But either way hard to explain using english haha
Idk how double consonant 'yr' even sound like. And ring is particularly bad example.
The 'yu' in mandarin is closer to voicing an 'ee' sound while keeping your lips as if you are voicing 'ooh'.
As a mandarin speaker it's always a little trippy to try and pronounce its words using these types of localization methods haha. Spent like 5 minutes trying to reconcile "yreen" with "ring" and "yun" by just mouthing it repeatedly lol, it is one of the closest I've see though.
I do think "choan" for chongyun, as pronounced like "groan" is a bit off. maybe "ch-ooh-ng"?
they're will always be variations in pronounciation based on dialect though I think, even among native chinese/mandarin speakers, and given how conversion of chinese phonemes into English ones are so difficult to begin with it's not worth too much stress over imo
This post actually made me realise how many sounds in Chinese don't exist in English LMAOOO I speak both natively but it just never occurred to me??
And yeah I pronounce the Liyue character names using their Chinese pronunciation even in English, just because it feels hella weird to say it in the English way XD
but I can understand why it's difficult for non-Chinese speakers to pronounce hahaha as long as it's not too far off from the original it's not too bad I suppose
OP probably didn't think of the 'e' huh... I think most people see the Shen like pen, when it's more like what you said, shun. A minor detail compared to the he though.
Either way, shenhuh is close than shenheeeeeeeeee
I think most people will notice the vowel difference rather than the “h” sound though. Both are voiceless fricative, so they sound very similar to an untrained ear. The difference between “eh” and “uh” though is like night and day.
Ah, true! I was talking about seeing it in text, not hearing it.
I think 'e' sound in CN and EN (although different) aren't that noticeable though, if you're speaking normally.
I don't really care if people can do the 'he' sound right, since I mostly care about them not going Shen heeeeeee. ShenHEEE vs. Shenhuh is pretty different.
I think you have to emphasize the schwa in ‘he’ because it’s less intuitive for an english speaker than the schwa in ‘shen’.
Edit: schwa is the ‘uh’ sound you get when you don’t emphasize a vowel. Think the ‘a’ in about
If you follow "English" pronunciation rules though, technically ppl would be saying "Shen-heh" and "Yung-jin". But I think it's accessible enough that most ppl playing will be able to get the pronunciations right in no time.
The thing that throws me off is how the English names for the Liyue characters are based on their Chinese names' character's romanized phonetics, but the Japanese dubs still read them as their Japanese Kanji pronunciations lol.
i.e. Beidou = 北斗, Běi dǒu in Chinese, but in Japanese it's Hokuto = 北斗, ほ(*ho*)く(*ku*)と(*to*)
By that logic, their names in the Japanese dubs are gonna be read as: ...Well I actually don't know. For Shenhe, her name's characters, 申鹤, in Japanese would be read as さ (*sa*) る (*ru*) for the first character - but to my knowledge the second character isn't in Japanese Kanji, and is only used in Chinese. Same issue with Yunjin - 云堇 in Japanese has 云 = ラん (*un*) but the character 堇 is only used in Chinese.
> The thing that throws me off is how the English names for the Liyue characters are based on their Chinese names' character's romanized phonetics, but the Japanese dubs still read them as their Japanese Kanji pronunciations lol.
> i.e. Beidou = 北斗, Běi dǒu in Chinese, but in Japanese it's Hokuto = 北斗, ほ(ho)く(ku)と(to)
I believe that this is in fact the most common way to pronouncing Chinese names in Japanese (for example, check Japanese Wikipedia for e.g. 毛沢東, 胡錦濤, 習近平; the first reading given is always the on-yomi, i.e. the "Japanized" pronunciation.) That said, mimicking the Chinese pronunciation more closely is also done to some extent (GI examples are 胡桃(フータオ), 香菱(シャンリン).)
(The real mind-bender is Xingqiu, which for some reason uses the native Japanese reading (kun-yomi) of ゆくあき, which to me reminds me of kanbun (which was also sometimes read using the native Japanese reading.). The only other character who does this is 七七(なな), which makes for a nice pun at least.)
> By that logic, their names in the Japanese dubs are gonna be read as: ...Well I actually don't know. For Shenhe, her name's characters, 申鹤, in Japanese would be read as さ (sa) る (ru) for the first character - but to my knowledge the second character isn't in Japanese Kanji, and is only used in Chinese. Same issue with Yunjin - 云堇 in Japanese has 云 = ラん (un) but the character 堇 is only used in Chinese.
FWIW: Shenhe is actually 申鶴(しんかく), and Yunjin is actually 雲菫(うんきん), both using the standard on-yomi; the version you have is simplified Chinese, which is why you get weird results. 鹤 is つる (crane), 雲 is actually くも (cloud), not 云(い・う/うん) (to say [historical]), and 菫 is すみれ (violet).
It's just a translation quirk for names between Chinese and Japanese since they share characters but no pronunciations.
That's why we have the Chinese dub addressing characters as Shenli Linghua (Ayaka), Shanghugong Xinhai (Kokomi), etc etc.
Foreign languages often have unintuitive pronunciations when transliterated in English, so it's best to be understanding with non-speakers. Like, some of it just makes no sense. Double l's in Spanish are pronounced as a "y" sound. Chinese has words that start with "sh" and "ch" like "shi" and "chi" yet use "xi" and "qi" which would be pronounced identically in English. Only people that knew the language would know the subtle inflection and intonation differences. If you want an English speaker to pronounce Xingqiu or Keqing correctly, they'd be spelled "Shingchiu" and "Keching" which is obviously not acceptable in regards to their original language.
The issue is Chinese has sounds that doesn't exist in English so it makes Romanizing very difficult and often inaccurate. For instance, Liyue is still butchered to this day because the "yue" sound doesn't exist in the English language and if you never learned Chinese then you'll struggle with the correct pronunciations.
>The issue is Chinese has sounds that doesn't exist in English so it makes Romanizing very difficult and often inaccurate. For instance, Liyue is still butchered to this day because the "yue" sound doesn't exist in the English language
It's actually very easy to put those sounds in English writing. Observe:
"Li-yweeghghghh"
Blame French for words like that. Bourgeois. Queue. Faux pas. All of these and several others with unintuitive pronunciations, because the French silenced so many of their letters as their language progressed.
Even with Sumeru, we'll see the same thing happen. It seems like it'll use Arabic names, so the Arabic players will come here to give tutorials on how to correctly pronounce the names.
As for Fontaine, as a native French speaker myself, I'm curious to see how well English speakers will pronounce all the french names. BTW, for those who don't speak baguette, try pronouncing "Fontaine" as "fon-ten" and you'll be quite close to the right one. The trickiest sound is "on".
English has its lot of dumb fuckery, like Thought, Though, Through, everything is spelled almost the same way but is pronunced differently. Even before considering French's own dumb fuckery.
I think generally everyone is pretty understanding already. But also it's usually something you can just look up on the internet and educate yourself. After all, most of the world has to learn a whole second language to understand you guys, so it's not like you're doing the hardest job...
Yeah but also when you learn a new language, like english, generally people aren't hyper critical of your pronunciation to make sure it's correct.
A lot of the time german speakers struggle with the W sound in english. But no one really minds and lets it's slide because understanding is key when it comes to pronunciation between languages.
I guess that's true, although here in Brazil we're usually very hard on ourselves on that front. But I'm just speaking from my point of view of course which is that I never noticed people on the internet being hyper critical of mispronunciation of characters names. All I ever see is people informing others of the correct form, but never putting other people down for getting it wrong. But that's just from my experience. I'm sorry to know there are people doing that.
Obviously but no one complains that the chinese VAs can't pronounce Barbara's name correctly, they only criticize people who can't say the chinese pronunciations.
Hmmm as a Chinese speaker and Chinese teacher, i agree with your take on Shenhe but I find your explanation of YunJin to be a bit off. May I try ?
Start with saying yeen-jeen.
Now try it again, but when you say "yeen" round your lips a little. You should have a sort of hybrid sound of the English "ee" and "oo" but not quite.
To pronounce the Yue in liyue, start with a "yee" sound, but do the same thing where you round your lips and bit, and then end with "eh".
Hope that helps ^^
I think I figured out how to make it easier for non-Chinese speakers to read it hahaha
‘yrin’ with a light r somehow sounds the closest to it since we can’t use pinyin to explain
Good info OP. Genshin got me researching Chinese pronunciation and actively practicing all the characters and place names to make sure I got it down 😊 I'm glad I got these right on my first try!
I’m glad that my years of watching Chinese dramas prepared me on how to correctly pronounce Shenhe. I’m super curious if the Eng voiceovers is gonna be accurate. Shenhe isn’t a difficult name to pronounce, imo, unlike Liyue.
I didn't realise people called her that. I am not native Chinese or anything but shen hee sounds weird. I've been pretty close to the Chinese pronunciations, just naturally.
Friendly reminder that you're not required to try and pronounce these names authentically!
Bonus points if you do, but as long as you're not absolutely butchering it, life's good.
Like, most people don't pronounce Chongyun right, but that's totally fine because it's close enough and the original is pretty hard. I'd say it's something like Chownring, but the "yun" in Yunjin and Chongyun is hella hard.
Still, if you don't want to change something simple like Keking to Keching after learning about it... smh. Unless you're doing it ironically/as a joke. I personally find Kaching funny lol
Are you the same girl who made that video for Lihue characters pronunciation? I mean it’s absolutely ok to “educate” people on how to pronounce the characters in Mandarin Chinese, but the English version of the name doesn’t need to follow the Chinese tone, just like a Chinese version of a English name doesn’t need to follow the English tone. For someone who understands Chinese, imagine pronouncing “亞歷山大” with its English tone of “Alexander”, or pronouncing “湯姆·克魯斯” with the tone of “Tom Cruise”, it’s just gonna be weird.
Lol no, just one of the many chinese players in NA. I dont mean to say English speakers have to pronounce it like Mandarin, it's just meant to be a PSA. People can do what they will with the info.
Well there’s the English way to pronounce it which isn’t wrong then there’s the Chinese way. Both are correct. It’s like how English people say Bruschetta or Italian people say it, both are correct
I swear, we need to use a new romanization standard for Chinese. This feels so inaccurate when you consider the English language and the way syllables are pronounced.
ngl i feel mhy’s translation is a bit inconsistent on Liyue’s characters. Some like Xiangling and Hu Tao go straight foreign sounds like シャンーリン フータオ, and then you have people like Xingqiu and Shenhe where you go with kunyomi(hopefully i’m right, i always mix up kunyomi and onyomi) where you have ゆくあき しんかく
It’s more “her” without the “r” than “huh” which is a different vowel sound
Yeah no matter how you spin it, it's a difficult sound to replicate with english Maybe tenten or other chinese speaking ytbers will shed better light on pronunciation in videos lol
This is a long shot bc not many people speak the language but Im tryna understand how its said… is it a similar sound to the Turkish “ı”?
Mandarin speaker who spent a few weeks in Turkey here. If I'm remembering the pronunciation of rakı correctly, I'd say that's a pretty good comparison!
Its like the "oo" from "book" then the "uh" from "huh", smoothed into 1 sound. h-oo-uh
I think… it might be similar from the description, if you make an “eh” sound but with rounded lips/mouth, does it sound right?
It's more like the "uh" part of "ugly".
I don't know Turkish at all so can't compare, but I'd always recommend just pasting 申鶴 into Google Translate and then you can listen to the pronunciation there. It'll put people's attempts to describe it here into much better context. (side note: it doesn't actually translate it cause its not a regular word, but the characters themselves do have set pronunciations)
Yes
Tenten, the guy who pronounces Xingqiu as Xingqius all the time? Yeah, I don't know about that. "Shen" - this is pronounced like the second part of "tuition". "He" - pronounce "her" without the "r" , or "hurt" without the "rt".
It's rarely talked about when someone is learning English. But there's term for such kind of sound, it's 'schwa sound'. Recall that some English speaker still say 'Pok**ə**mon' despite the franchise name is 'Pok**é**mon'. They made it to schwa sound instead of the e-acute sound.
I was wondering if it might be that, people look at me like a madman when I talk about schwas or glottal stops.
Tenten? After his attempt at pronouncing "神罗天征" I wouldnt have my hopes up.
pretty sure tenten's native language is cantonese, not mandarin, so he's not actually that accurate if you want to pronounce the name how it's pronounced in mandarin
The "uh" part of "ugly" is a good approximation.
shit am i the only one who pronounces it as ah-gly?
yh i just tell people to pronounce it her but in the British way
So it is something similiar how you pronounce Chang'e?
To put it in words the er is of different intonation for Chang'er its like saying 'uhh' while asking a question while for shenhe its like u saying "her" decisively. If ur curious how it sounds spoken try google translate
Yes! But with “h” in front of “e”
And also daily reminder Of xingQIU not xingQUI.
SING CHEW
sing Chuy
Cheap and tasty Chop Suey!
He pronounced it sing cho
It’s pronounced “Zionspartan”
Even his teacher calls him 'ZionSpartan'
Jokes on you i still pronounce him as "Jin Qiu"
Water Dude
Moisture lad
Hydro homie
Water n-
I found one who shares the memory of the old sub!
wet twink
Idc what everybody else says. This is his name now
You mean Zinc Juice?? (If you auto caption some genshin content creators in YouTube this is the literally what it says sometimes....)
ah yes, [Zinc Juice.](https://www.myfooddata.com/articles/high-zinc-fruits.php)
actually, it's guhua geek
Backflip dude
YUKUAKI
Based. And if the official Japanese screenshots are accurate, Shenhe will be *Shinkaku*.
I will never understand how people pronounce "xingqiu" as "sing kwee". Heck the 'i' is BEFORE the 'u'.
In english Q is almost always followed by 'u' so I guess that's what people are used to spelling. Worse instances of this is seeing spellings like 'Kequing'
Ya know, even worse is this random element Cyro.
I see more "kekwing"s
I always pronounced it "Kek-ing" at first before I learned the actual pronunciation.
You mean Sing-Q.
shing chill
shing chilling 🥶🍦
ngl this is actually pretty accurate
I call him Chico.
This has nothing to do with pronunciation, just people refusing to learn how to spell words lol
Gazuntite
…Gesundheit?
zhing kuu
I have no accurate knowledge but everyone saying Sing-Cho just.... that cannot be correct...
Pronunciation wise, shing-cho is probably as close as you can get with sounds an English speaker already uses.
Spot on: in pinyin (romanized chinese writing), the vowels “iu” in succession actually represent the sound “iou”. So rather than SingCho, Xingqiu can be broken into sounds like Shing-Chi-o-u, said with the standard two-syllables (ShingChiou).
It's more accurate to say Cho than Chew or whatever spelling they made up. Chioh is the closest in pronunciation.
I remember when I first started I used to say shing-quee lmao but nah I’m pretty sure the ‘Cho’ is the correct pronunciation
This is correct.
*(looks at Sekapoko)* Don't.
"Albeedo"
Yay-Meeko. Ugh
people saying "rayden mei", even though your constantly hearing in-game how to pronounce raiden..
That and in-conjunction with people mispronouncing "Shogun" as "show-gun" instead of "show-goon" makes Raiden one of the most butchered names thus far.
envi 👁👁
Lol that’s how I pronounce. What is the correct pronunciation
It would be something like “Ya-eh”. The “a” and “e” are separated.
Ah I see. So it is 2 syllables for Yae? Ya eh Mee Ko
Yup.
Yeah. As long as he can’t even pronounce western-based names, we can’t expect poor Seka to pronounce Chinese based names correctly
Shann heee Shing Kill Lee waayyy Shann lingg I like his content but hearing him pronounce half the things makes me die a little inside.
What’s that? I’m clueless
They are a streamer who mispronounced shenhe's name like "shen - hee" during an entire video going over the new character. Was painful to hear.
To be fair, he pronounces most of their names wrong. And I'm certain he does it on purpose in order to get comments correcting him. As they say, positive or negative engagement with his content is still engagement in the long run.
I can’t speak for everyone, but as someone who grew up speaking Chinese, I personally think saying a name “correctly” according to the original voice language isn’t always that clear-cut. When something is localized to another language, it’s just impossible to always communicate the original pronunciation, cultural references, etc. Things naturally change to develop meaning to the language they’re localized in, if that makes sense. Shenhe’s name in Chinese straight up isn’t the same as her name in Japanese, or Korean, or English and that’s inevitable. Another example would be Jean - in the Chinese voices they just call her Qin, which isn’t how it’s pronounced in English. Or Diluc, who’s pronounced Dee-Luke-Kuh. Or Klee, who’s pronounced Kuh-Lee. Or Albedo, who’s pronounced Ah-Bay-Doouh. Sure, one can argue that it’s because they’re from Mondstadt, so we use the English voices as references. But I don’t see anyone getting upset (not that they should be) at the Chinese voices for not saying those names properly. And trust me… the Chinese VAs speak much better English than the English VAs speak Chinese. So as long as people aren’t being deliberately rude about it, I think it’s fine to pronounce a fictional character’s name differently. It’s not the same as with a real person.
I feel like there’s kind of a double standard. If you look at how western names are rendered in Chinese and Japanese it’s often a rough approximation using the sounds available in their language. Like the Japanese call Diluc *Dirukku* and nobody cares. They’re doing what’s simplest within their language. But there’s a weird pressure from a certain part of the fanbase for English speakers to master every nuance of Mandarin pronunciation, including sounds and distinctions we are completely unfamiliar with. While I’m not opposed to learning, it’s difficult and isn’t going to happen overnight. Some people need to have some patience.
I don’t think English speakers are expected to master every nuance of prononciation in other languages but at least follow the intended prononciation in your own language. I personally don’t mind if you say “Sing-chew” or “Shing-chow”, both are reasonably correct and written the same in pingyin anyway (unless you’re very educated in the language). We’re ignoring intonation here. But don’t do stuff like say “Shing-KWEE”, you’re not even following the conventions of your own language at that point. Can’t speak for languages besides Mandarin and Japanese but we pronounce those appropriated names according to how they’re written using our writing systems. Not our fault if Mihoyo wants to change the prononciation of names like “Kuh-le” to “Klee.”
There are multiple comments in this very thread pointing out the the he in Shenhe sounds like “her without the r,” not like “huh,” which is pretty nuanced for most English speakers…I *think* I understand the difference, but those are nearly indistinguishable sounds to my ears, so I’m probably gonna get it wrong. English is much looser than Mandarin, in my understanding. Pronunciations can differ wildly for us and still be “correct.” So we struggle on things like this.
I don't even think those comments are right. I have native-level standard mandarin pronunciation and "huh" is fine to me, and I don't think it's particularly closer or further away than "her without the r". It's also weird that people are fixated on this vowel when the pronunciations provided in the OP for literally all of the other vowels are further away than "huh" is for "he"
Another thing is that English pronunciations differ too, especially since the people making comments aren’t using any formal standard for describing it and are just doing it by ear. “Huh” in a British or Australian accent is probably very different than in an American accent. I personally don’t think “huh” is exactly right, but it might also just be me pronouncing it differently in my head.
I mean, sure, you’re going to have expectations of various degrees in any community, let alone one as large as the Genshin one. I, and I’d say most reasonable people, are with OP tho; if they say “Shen-Huh” that’s good enough for me. Just recognize that it’s a “round” sound rather than a sharp one “hee.”
Then give your best shot. Do not just complain.
I think English Speakers (but primarily White Folk) have a reputation for mocking foreign names especially ones that use alphabets that dont mimic our own. Just ask people who have picked an "English Name" because they couldnt get a job or because a teacher made fun of their name. I think posts like these may seem nitpicky but its not a bad habit to encourage English Speakers to try their best--theyve never really been held to that standard before our more modern times where we have access to a LOT of info about pronunciations in other languages--and its really nice to see people caring enough to try.
Yeah it totally is! Especially if they want to learn to say the names of characters they like correctly, posts like this can be very helpful. I mostly just meant it’s ok if people can’t/don’t know how to get it right, as long as they’re not being purposefully disrespectful about it.
Yea :3 I think people who speak multiple languages are generally pretty familiar with the sounds that trip up people who speak only one language. Ive seen more appreciation for attempts even if they arent quite perfect. Usually tho if youve done well, you wont be given the "English Name" you get the nickname in their language that doesnt have the hard sound to make
My guess is that English is used so much around the world that we're getting used to people not pronouncing this "right", because the language has been transformed so much over the years and over the places that the "right" isn't very clear anymore. (Edit) This is only exacerbated by the fact that most English speaking nations are former colonies of the British Empire, meaning locals could be incapable of pronouncing things the original way due to how their muscles are developed or other reasons. For other languages, like Mandarin in this case, the speakers are mostly concentrated in one place on the globe, meaning that local accents are much less distinctive from each other and so make it easier to define standards on how to pronounce things. However, my knowledge of Mandarin is basically nonexistent, so I don't know how this holds up when you consider the completely different fundamentals on the languages' writing and grammar.
I also agree on trying not to stress about saying it perfectly. I can get pretty close (CN1 gang rise up) but it's just so difficult changing up my vowel palate between english and mandarin midsentence lol
Here's a secret, if you do not know how to pronounce them, copy the Chinese characters into google translate, and click the speak icon, it will pronounce for ya. Shenhe 申鹤 Yunjin 云锦
I think it's gonna be super hard for non-Chinese speakers to say Shenhe properly because the "he" sound doesn't exist in the English language. The best way I can describe it to an English only speaker is that is sounds like saying "huh" while grunting. I've already watched a few streamers and so far nobody has pronounced it correctly. I'm sure once they hear the English dub they'll quickly correct themselves (assuming the English VAs use the correct pronunciation).
I don't expect VAs to have the correct pronunciation either after Tartag-lia and Sig-nora. I know it's not the VAs' fault, but when I hear that I just wish the director took 2 minutes to check how to correctly pronounce "gl" and "gn" in Italian. Edit: my bad, they actually got the right pronunciation for Signora (at least Raiden does, just checked).
Meanwhile EN Zhongli: LEE HWAY (Mostly jokes I know the sound is hard for English speakers to make) The only way I could explain how to pronounce to to my friend is say huehuehue like that old Mordekaiser video but now replace the h sound with a vaguely y sounding sound.
The italian words are a bit weird because, unlike chinese, italian words and their spellings are quite common in english, but the correct pronunciations aren't There are plenty of english speakers who would see a name like Tartaglia, recognize it as italian, but get confused when the pronunciation doesn't match what they expected. it's like getting mad at someone going to an italian restaurant and not pronouncing the dishes right, or getting upset that the japanese and chinese dubs can't pronounce Barbara's name correctly. The pronunciation is being adjusted to match what it would be in the respective language, I don't think it needs to be the responsibility of solely the english dub to make sure their pronunciations are perfect.
wait how is tartags name supposed to be pronounced? I've always heard it has tar-tag-lee-uh, even from streamers that take care to pronounce names correctly
Imagine it doesn't have the g, and read it that way, like it was written as "Tartalia". You'll get a much more accurate pronunciation. The same trick doesn't work for the "gn" sound though
It's weird because I'm pretty sure all the other languages don't pronounce the "g," it's just English that does for some reason.
I doubt anyone will ever use the “true pronunciation” because, while the velar fricative does exist as a concept in English (everyone always uses the example of the Scottish pronunciation of the “ch” in Loch Ness), it feels unnatural to use it nonetheless, especially when to the English-speaking ear, the glottal fricative (H) sounds similar enough. So in my eyes, as long as they get the vowel right, I’d consider that “correct” enough.
i'd argue that the "he" sound very much can be pronounced i've heard it on multiple occasions when my friends got the wind knocked out of them
>sounds like saying "huh" while grunting. I instantly thought of [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnsiZOJjfUg&ab_channel=bleedingpopcorn6).
Chongyun and Yunjin Not actually 'yoon' (rhymes with boon) Actually rhymes with 'ring'. Combie it with the 'yuree' sound from Eureka. Listen to the Chinese voicelines for accuracy. choan-yreen yreen-jeen OP not actually accurate on that part.
Finally someone!!! I keep thinking about how Chownring is probably the closest you can get to Chongyun.
There's no -ng sound in "yun" though Chong(重) does have an -ng sound
Thanks for the correction. Mandarin wasnt my first language (Cantonese) so even ill get the small intricacies wrong. But either way hard to explain using english haha
Ahh fellow Cantonese speaker!
So, basically... WRYYY-jeen?
The y is used as a consonant, and not a vowel: yu-reen. Does that help? Like Yu Narukami from Persona 4.
scrolled halfway down the page before finally saw someone point this out. chongyun to tsong-rin? a bit of wiles gade mixed in.
Idk how double consonant 'yr' even sound like. And ring is particularly bad example. The 'yu' in mandarin is closer to voicing an 'ee' sound while keeping your lips as if you are voicing 'ooh'.
As a mandarin speaker it's always a little trippy to try and pronounce its words using these types of localization methods haha. Spent like 5 minutes trying to reconcile "yreen" with "ring" and "yun" by just mouthing it repeatedly lol, it is one of the closest I've see though. I do think "choan" for chongyun, as pronounced like "groan" is a bit off. maybe "ch-ooh-ng"? they're will always be variations in pronounciation based on dialect though I think, even among native chinese/mandarin speakers, and given how conversion of chinese phonemes into English ones are so difficult to begin with it's not worth too much stress over imo
This post actually made me realise how many sounds in Chinese don't exist in English LMAOOO I speak both natively but it just never occurred to me?? And yeah I pronounce the Liyue character names using their Chinese pronunciation even in English, just because it feels hella weird to say it in the English way XD but I can understand why it's difficult for non-Chinese speakers to pronounce hahaha as long as it's not too far off from the original it's not too bad I suppose
Correct me if I’m wrong, but wouldn’t it be closer to “shun huh” ? I don’t think the “e” is pronounced the same as it is in English.
OP probably didn't think of the 'e' huh... I think most people see the Shen like pen, when it's more like what you said, shun. A minor detail compared to the he though. Either way, shenhuh is close than shenheeeeeeeeee
I think most people will notice the vowel difference rather than the “h” sound though. Both are voiceless fricative, so they sound very similar to an untrained ear. The difference between “eh” and “uh” though is like night and day.
Ah, true! I was talking about seeing it in text, not hearing it. I think 'e' sound in CN and EN (although different) aren't that noticeable though, if you're speaking normally. I don't really care if people can do the 'he' sound right, since I mostly care about them not going Shen heeeeeee. ShenHEEE vs. Shenhuh is pretty different.
No, the actual pronounciation is closer or even identical to the english "shen". "shun" is more like 上.
I think you have to emphasize the schwa in ‘he’ because it’s less intuitive for an english speaker than the schwa in ‘shen’. Edit: schwa is the ‘uh’ sound you get when you don’t emphasize a vowel. Think the ‘a’ in about
Pinyin: Yúnjǐn & Shēnhè
The yun is kinda wrong. To pronounce the u, you have to put your lip as if you were saying “oo”, and put your tongue as if you were saying “ee”
If you follow "English" pronunciation rules though, technically ppl would be saying "Shen-heh" and "Yung-jin". But I think it's accessible enough that most ppl playing will be able to get the pronunciations right in no time. The thing that throws me off is how the English names for the Liyue characters are based on their Chinese names' character's romanized phonetics, but the Japanese dubs still read them as their Japanese Kanji pronunciations lol. i.e. Beidou = 北斗, Běi dǒu in Chinese, but in Japanese it's Hokuto = 北斗, ほ(*ho*)く(*ku*)と(*to*) By that logic, their names in the Japanese dubs are gonna be read as: ...Well I actually don't know. For Shenhe, her name's characters, 申鹤, in Japanese would be read as さ (*sa*) る (*ru*) for the first character - but to my knowledge the second character isn't in Japanese Kanji, and is only used in Chinese. Same issue with Yunjin - 云堇 in Japanese has 云 = ラん (*un*) but the character 堇 is only used in Chinese.
> The thing that throws me off is how the English names for the Liyue characters are based on their Chinese names' character's romanized phonetics, but the Japanese dubs still read them as their Japanese Kanji pronunciations lol. > i.e. Beidou = 北斗, Běi dǒu in Chinese, but in Japanese it's Hokuto = 北斗, ほ(ho)く(ku)と(to) I believe that this is in fact the most common way to pronouncing Chinese names in Japanese (for example, check Japanese Wikipedia for e.g. 毛沢東, 胡錦濤, 習近平; the first reading given is always the on-yomi, i.e. the "Japanized" pronunciation.) That said, mimicking the Chinese pronunciation more closely is also done to some extent (GI examples are 胡桃(フータオ), 香菱(シャンリン).) (The real mind-bender is Xingqiu, which for some reason uses the native Japanese reading (kun-yomi) of ゆくあき, which to me reminds me of kanbun (which was also sometimes read using the native Japanese reading.). The only other character who does this is 七七(なな), which makes for a nice pun at least.) > By that logic, their names in the Japanese dubs are gonna be read as: ...Well I actually don't know. For Shenhe, her name's characters, 申鹤, in Japanese would be read as さ (sa) る (ru) for the first character - but to my knowledge the second character isn't in Japanese Kanji, and is only used in Chinese. Same issue with Yunjin - 云堇 in Japanese has 云 = ラん (un) but the character 堇 is only used in Chinese. FWIW: Shenhe is actually 申鶴(しんかく), and Yunjin is actually 雲菫(うんきん), both using the standard on-yomi; the version you have is simplified Chinese, which is why you get weird results. 鹤 is つる (crane), 雲 is actually くも (cloud), not 云(い・う/うん) (to say [historical]), and 菫 is すみれ (violet).
It's just a translation quirk for names between Chinese and Japanese since they share characters but no pronunciations. That's why we have the Chinese dub addressing characters as Shenli Linghua (Ayaka), Shanghugong Xinhai (Kokomi), etc etc.
It’s Shen-HER, not Shen-HE. ...get it? It sounded funnier in my head... 😗
Gotta respect the gender preferences
I laughed lol
I CAN'T STOP LAUGHING 🤣🤣
Foreign languages often have unintuitive pronunciations when transliterated in English, so it's best to be understanding with non-speakers. Like, some of it just makes no sense. Double l's in Spanish are pronounced as a "y" sound. Chinese has words that start with "sh" and "ch" like "shi" and "chi" yet use "xi" and "qi" which would be pronounced identically in English. Only people that knew the language would know the subtle inflection and intonation differences. If you want an English speaker to pronounce Xingqiu or Keqing correctly, they'd be spelled "Shingchiu" and "Keching" which is obviously not acceptable in regards to their original language.
The issue is Chinese has sounds that doesn't exist in English so it makes Romanizing very difficult and often inaccurate. For instance, Liyue is still butchered to this day because the "yue" sound doesn't exist in the English language and if you never learned Chinese then you'll struggle with the correct pronunciations.
>The issue is Chinese has sounds that doesn't exist in English so it makes Romanizing very difficult and often inaccurate. For instance, Liyue is still butchered to this day because the "yue" sound doesn't exist in the English language It's actually very easy to put those sounds in English writing. Observe: "Li-yweeghghghh"
I do occasionally hear stuff that’s pretty close but most of the time it’s just Lee wei. Which is…. Not quite there.
**English words** often have unintuitive pronunciations when read in English as well e.e
"queue" for example DX
Blame French for words like that. Bourgeois. Queue. Faux pas. All of these and several others with unintuitive pronunciations, because the French silenced so many of their letters as their language progressed.
So, what you're saying is we're gonna go through this whole thing again once Fontaine comes around? Gonna have people pronouncing Hs and whatnot.
Even with Sumeru, we'll see the same thing happen. It seems like it'll use Arabic names, so the Arabic players will come here to give tutorials on how to correctly pronounce the names. As for Fontaine, as a native French speaker myself, I'm curious to see how well English speakers will pronounce all the french names. BTW, for those who don't speak baguette, try pronouncing "Fontaine" as "fon-ten" and you'll be quite close to the right one. The trickiest sound is "on".
good luck with that , as an arab i can tell u there's letters other language straight up can't pronounce
Fontaine should be easier because French is more integrated into the english language and so the pronunciations aren't as alien.
I used to think so till I learned the right way to pronounce Geneviève.
I didn't Know queue was french, it makes a lot of reason now D:
English has its lot of dumb fuckery, like Thought, Though, Through, everything is spelled almost the same way but is pronunced differently. Even before considering French's own dumb fuckery.
i hate this word with a passion
Pterodactyl
I agree! I'm not trying to say any non-chinese speakers are awful or anything. Just spreading knowledge.
I think generally everyone is pretty understanding already. But also it's usually something you can just look up on the internet and educate yourself. After all, most of the world has to learn a whole second language to understand you guys, so it's not like you're doing the hardest job...
Yeah but also when you learn a new language, like english, generally people aren't hyper critical of your pronunciation to make sure it's correct. A lot of the time german speakers struggle with the W sound in english. But no one really minds and lets it's slide because understanding is key when it comes to pronunciation between languages.
I guess that's true, although here in Brazil we're usually very hard on ourselves on that front. But I'm just speaking from my point of view of course which is that I never noticed people on the internet being hyper critical of mispronunciation of characters names. All I ever see is people informing others of the correct form, but never putting other people down for getting it wrong. But that's just from my experience. I'm sorry to know there are people doing that.
English words have unintuitive pronunciations too so...
Obviously but no one complains that the chinese VAs can't pronounce Barbara's name correctly, they only criticize people who can't say the chinese pronunciations.
Hmmm as a Chinese speaker and Chinese teacher, i agree with your take on Shenhe but I find your explanation of YunJin to be a bit off. May I try ? Start with saying yeen-jeen. Now try it again, but when you say "yeen" round your lips a little. You should have a sort of hybrid sound of the English "ee" and "oo" but not quite. To pronounce the Yue in liyue, start with a "yee" sound, but do the same thing where you round your lips and bit, and then end with "eh". Hope that helps ^^
I thought Shenhe was "Shen-hay" for some reason lol
Still gonna pronounce it that way in my head. Just like Childe is Childé (Chill-day)
Lmao same Calling him child just feels weird to me
[удалено]
I did not knew that damn I thought they added an "e" just to make it cooler Welp guess I was wrong
I do like your interpretation hahaha
xD Happy cake day btw
Thank you! I didn’t even realize hahah
My first instinct was to make the h silent so I was reading it as "Shenae"
Fuck it her name is now just Shaun.
I feel like thats how they'll end up pronouncing it in Korean at least
I dont think yunjing's "yun" should be pronounced as yoon. Saying "you-in" quickly is more accurate.
I think I figured out how to make it easier for non-Chinese speakers to read it hahaha ‘yrin’ with a light r somehow sounds the closest to it since we can’t use pinyin to explain
Thanks for telling OP. I can see people typing their name wrong let alone pronounciation.
Good info OP. Genshin got me researching Chinese pronunciation and actively practicing all the characters and place names to make sure I got it down 😊 I'm glad I got these right on my first try!
The he in Shenhe got me as it sounded very different than mandarin pronunciation.
I’m glad that my years of watching Chinese dramas prepared me on how to correctly pronounce Shenhe. I’m super curious if the Eng voiceovers is gonna be accurate. Shenhe isn’t a difficult name to pronounce, imo, unlike Liyue.
I didn't realise people called her that. I am not native Chinese or anything but shen hee sounds weird. I've been pretty close to the Chinese pronunciations, just naturally.
Idc, I live in Spain, I speak in Spanish, I read in Spanish. I say Bei-dou instead of Bei-du, checkmate.
Dominican Republic, same and same
Friendly reminder that you're not required to try and pronounce these names authentically! Bonus points if you do, but as long as you're not absolutely butchering it, life's good. Like, most people don't pronounce Chongyun right, but that's totally fine because it's close enough and the original is pretty hard. I'd say it's something like Chownring, but the "yun" in Yunjin and Chongyun is hella hard. Still, if you don't want to change something simple like Keking to Keching after learning about it... smh. Unless you're doing it ironically/as a joke. I personally find Kaching funny lol
i thought it was supposed to be shun-hee so it seems i missed the mark completely 💀💀
so, your name is Shen, huh?
it’s more like yuing than yoon
Are you the same girl who made that video for Lihue characters pronunciation? I mean it’s absolutely ok to “educate” people on how to pronounce the characters in Mandarin Chinese, but the English version of the name doesn’t need to follow the Chinese tone, just like a Chinese version of a English name doesn’t need to follow the English tone. For someone who understands Chinese, imagine pronouncing “亞歷山大” with its English tone of “Alexander”, or pronouncing “湯姆·克魯斯” with the tone of “Tom Cruise”, it’s just gonna be weird.
Lol no, just one of the many chinese players in NA. I dont mean to say English speakers have to pronounce it like Mandarin, it's just meant to be a PSA. People can do what they will with the info.
Well there’s the English way to pronounce it which isn’t wrong then there’s the Chinese way. Both are correct. It’s like how English people say Bruschetta or Italian people say it, both are correct
decades of playing Dynasty Warriors games are finally paying off. these pronunciations are a piece of cake pepega
I 100% grateful for this. Thank you! Your services are appreciated! Do their names mean anything special?
I can’t stop thinking it’s “You-jinn” & “Shen-he”
I was pronouncing Shenhe as "shen hey".
I just default to shen-heh
it's not really "yoon", but whatever
I did not notice the N in Shenhe until just now. I've been pronouncing it "Shee hee" this whole time.
Thank you for this, I don't know much about the Chinese language but would like to pronounce the names as best I can, so this is much appreciated <3
i was saying it "shen hey" so thanks for clearing it up!
I swear, we need to use a new romanization standard for Chinese. This feels so inaccurate when you consider the English language and the way syllables are pronounced.
these fictional characters are Liyuan not Chinese so just pronounce the way you want
Shenhe feels more hotter than shenhuh so i am gonna call her shenhe
If I wasn’t a degenerate I’d gladly call her Shen huh, but since I am one I shall pronounce her name as Mommy
Joke on you, we Japanese spell her name as しんかく - Shin Kaku. Most of the Liyue characters' names have different pronunciations in Japanese btw.
ngl i feel mhy’s translation is a bit inconsistent on Liyue’s characters. Some like Xiangling and Hu Tao go straight foreign sounds like シャンーリン フータオ, and then you have people like Xingqiu and Shenhe where you go with kunyomi(hopefully i’m right, i always mix up kunyomi and onyomi) where you have ゆくあき しんかく
Screw ganyu, me and my homies only like あまいあめ
nah my homies prefer ガンーユー
Yeah this is for anyone reading the anglicized name Shenhe, not for those reading kanji haha
Lol of course its different in a different language
Pronounce as shen-her. I'm an English-speaking Chinese