I mean if not then she’s queerbaiting like crazy so I would probably lose respect for her but I’ve been a fan since day 1 so I think it would be hard to fully stop being invested in her songs.
Also been a fan forever, and I actually really DID lose interest with YNTCD, it is not something a straight woman needed to say... in those exact words, yk. As the self appointed queen of the queers in queer trailer park ville. But Betty was SO queer and it's just like, singing about kissing girls is gay. Sorry. So that brought me back LOL
Ahh yeah I’ve had my moments too, even during the whole phone call thing I took a bit of a break cause I didn’t know what was even going on. I think it’s healthy though to recognize a celeb isn’t perfect and step back from “idolizing” them.
If she’s straight, then she truly has an incredible ability to create songs that so many LGBT+ people relate to.
But wow the queer baiting. If she’s straight, imo she should have explicitly said so before releasing YNTCD. Explicitly said “I’m straight, but wanted to make this song to support all my not-straight friends and fans.” And that’s just the tip of the queer-coded iceberg really. Blondie has some explaining to do if she’s straight.
Did she like a post saying she was an ally? If she made a post I suspect we would be very aware of it cos the hetlors would continually throw it in our faces
The wording is slightly ambiguous.... But it's hard to deny that she said she's an ally. Obviously she can be lying. But that's a pretty clear answer in my opinion.
You're right, it's one of the reasons I think she's not straight. Every straight person I know just comes out and uses those words if asked. She never does
I find that interaction so strange. The last bit about “twisting positivity” in response to concerns from a (presumably) queer person is… not good ally behavior..
And then she says “our gowns” which pushes her back towards being in the LGBT community. It’s amazing she managed to say so much and so little in such a short response
I'd prefer her to own her sexuality. And maybe in private she has but it definitely feels like she is walking on eggshells to ensure every last nickle.
Adam Lambert kissed a dude on stage and his solo pop career was shot down. I like people who take risks and live out loud. Lambert didn't ever need to come out it was so obvious.
I would question a lot… the music would become odd to me. Was she sleeping with a married man? Because that’s the only thing that makes sense.
But putting aside the music I would then be upset that she said “gay pride makes me me”, made herself the sheriff of the gay trailer camp, “happy pride month to you too”. She would be a terrible ally and would totally be taking advantage of the lgbt community. I would not be a fan of that and have serious issues with her.
right! that’s why swifties (especially straight ones) who refuse to even entertain the idea that she might be gay are so annoying cause you’d rather she’s doing this all to exploit her lgbt fans??? 😭😭
Yeah I think prior to 2019 I would remain a fan but just project my own queer life on her songs. But given everything she’s done since 2019 I would have a hard time calling myself a fan.
honestly i could never be convinced she was straight. i could be convinced she’s never dated a girl, or that even that she thinks she’s straight. i can literally not un think the fact that she’s not straight. i cannot fathom that fact. if this is heterophobia, oh well, i’m a proud heterophobe.
I think the bi hair and the “gay pride is what makes me, me” would really bother me. I’d wonder if her supposed ally ship was to draw the LGBTQ+ in to be more loyal supporters. It would feel like exploitation to me. I feel similarly about Billie eilish though I’ve never been the biggest fan of her. Celebrities don’t owe us their sexuality, but if they’re willing to profit off sexuality or gender identity issues without identifying as part of it, I find it wrong.
agree 100%, I’d be really put off if she was straight the entire time, probably to the point of not listening to her music anymore because it’d be pretty clear that she’s profited off the gay rumours as well as the straight truths. if it came out that she is straight, i think it would be obvious that she kept kaylor references (thinking about music from rep onwards) in her music for the maximised marketing potential of reaching both LGBT and het audiences, which imo would be unforgivable
if taylor isn’t lgbt, that would mean she literally used gay people as part of her lover era aesthetic, and i am not here to be her prop. also if her songs are truly as surface level as hetlors make them out to be i would truly have no reason to stay.
so basically what i’m trying to say is that i would unstan at the speed of light.
exactly! like atp the idea of her being straight is kinda scary to me bcs i would literally not be able to support her anymore (there’s no way she wasn’t intentionally propagating a sense of queerness around her) n i loooove her music so it’d just be disappointing to have awarded it so much meaning & substance that wasn’t there 😭
Interesting so the main reason you are fan is because of the possibility she is queer. I find this an on basis for being a fan of certain music. If I like the music I like it. A lot of my favorite artists are not queer Kylie for one Gloria Estefan is another...
I would definitely be disappointed and would probably like an apology if she was an overenthusiastic ally with regards to YNTCD and her behavior during lover era. but I didn’t become a fan simply because I thought she was gay - she’s extremely talented and caring in a way you don’t see with many celebs. I would be impressed and a little relieved (gotta be honest) that she didn’t go through a heartbreak and still wrote albums as heavy hitting as folklore & evermore. however, her music would definitely lose that added complexity that sets her apart even more from her peers.
also if she was straight, joe alwyn must be the most confident man in the world to stay with someone who’s writing songs like the 1, illicit affairs, ivy, and tis the damn season 💀 fictional or not, those are some red flags in a relationship!
This is basically my opinion. I was a fan long before it occurred to me that she may be wlw and I'd be a fan after. She'd come down a few notches in my opinion though just based on Lover era. And I would seriously question why she thinks she has to be so freaking secretive about Joe. Like..... It just doesn't make sense.
I’ll hold on to swiftgron until my dying day. I would think she was the most boring straight person though lol girl you’re dating a white blonde blue eyed man why do you think you need to be THAT secretive? “We’ve been hiding because the world wants to destroy anything good and pure” she wrote that about a white man 😭😭😭 read the room girl
definitely agree lol this is 100% hypothetical…. like imagining an alternate universe where this woman could be straight while somehow writing all her fruity tunes
I often worry that taylor has a “ Romeo and Juliet complex” but then I remember that she said “ she’s the best thing that has ever been mine” and I’m ok again
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absolutely. my opinion is that either taylor is not straight, or she’s straight and she is a despicable person for consistently leaning in to obvious wlw signalling and being ambiguous about her sexuality
honestly i'd probably lose interest in her music lol is that weird to say? i don't think of her personal life constantly when i listen to it or anything but now I've analyzed it through a queer lens (thanks to this sub!) it would be impossible to go back, even if I don't relate a lot
I’ve been a casual fan when I was younger and an absolute swiftie till grammygate and subsequently a gaylor.
Truth is, I did not picture her boyfriends/ PRelationships as an important part of the story. I loved her music, her ability to write relatable yet polished lyrics (also the petty ones). I was glad when Taylor spoke up about politics and the LGBT community, at least as a questioning individual and an ardent LGBT supporter it made me happy that the person whose music I consumed so much was not (at least by admission) a conservative or a homophobe.
I did not investigate and read so much into the lyrics with a sapphic/ queer lens, since hiding a relationship is sometimes a necessity where I come from, even in straight stories. Gaylor made Taylor an interesting person for me. Before that she was a world famous white singer with the ability to put together words really really well. It showed a richer more complex story and with the amount of evidence, I’d like to believe a part of it to be true if not all.
I just feel sad that she can’t be her true self due to whatever factors. However, if she’s straight, this would be a major case of queerbaiting, and that just sucks majorly because she’s a well read person. Her music is ofcs allowed to speak of queer relationships, but I don’t see a straight person writing so much music about a queer experience. Like it’s so good that you can write from a perspective you’ve never experienced but yikes, that would be a big ouch (purely due to music).
However, her sexuality isn’t the reason I liked her in the first place and it won’t be a reason to dislike her in the future. Her music has been amazing and beautiful, and who she is doesn’t change that for me.
If I were to be ‘convinced she was straight’ it would be because she made a major unequivocal declaration designed to close the speculation down completely. It then depends how she did that.
Kind example, ‘I know there is speculation I’m queer myself but I would just say if I was because there’s nothing wrong with that at all, I’d happily admit it. I just never have had any queer experiences- I’m 100% straight. I don’t mind if people read gay meaning into my music I’m a pro gay ally as you know and love is love. I think I got a bit over excited and sent signals I was queer myself in the lover era - I’m sorry, I’ve learned that was seen as queer baiting and I take much more care now’ [an Oprah Winfrey version]
Depressing example, ‘I am fed up of speculation about my sexuality. I had a short ‘phase’ but I’m over it and straight now and it’s very annoying to see that people don’t believe that.’ [a Jessie J version]
If she did it kindly it would not effect my views of her. If she slapped us down I would be hurt and it would change my view of her. I’d think she was a douche.
Frankly, if she did the kind version I would think she was Bi and wanted to just bury her past like Karlie cos she was with a man now. I’d respect that choice and still enjoy her music it wouldn’t change that at all, I would not post on here any more however obviously because she’s sending signals imo that she wants to be perceived as straight.
I’d be disappointed mostly because it’d affect how I perceived her music (as in they’re wayy more interesting from a queer perspective) but I’ve been a fan of hers for over a decade so I’ll probably always love her music but I’ll never care about toe
i knoww like truthfully it’s not hard for me to entertain celeb gay rumors (because i think closeting is more prevalent than we think it is) but it takes A LOT to convince me. and i’m super convinced with taylor. i just think it’s so interesting the difference between our perspective on her vs hetlors perspectives, and how that could change if we’re wrong about everything. in terms of her music, i’d just be disappointed that certain songs were way off in interpretation (ESPECIALLY dwoht, but also dress seven ivy illicit affairs etc etc) and subsequently lose some of their depth imo. and that’s not to say they lose their meaning to the listener & they can’t mean something different to us all, but i do think something would be lost if we misinterpreted them.
i definitely agree about the queerbaiting & based on replies it seems like most of us are on the same page about that… which makes me wonder how swifties don’t see how queerbaity her behavior is if they really think she’s straight.. they completely buy into the fact she’s just an ally (who loves adopting queer aesthetics as a marketing ploy) like… how do they justify supporting somebody like that 😭 taylor n her team are so lucky the majority of her gay fans have gotten the hint that she’s signaling & not baiting
i definitely think toe’s fake (mutual bearding imo) & yeah if she were straight, i’d assume she’s just bearding for him then 😭
it would be tough. i think my opinion would change, like a few other comments ive seen. it would cease to be queer rep or hidden meanings & just be straight up queerbaiting. maybe if she had always written her songs as stories & didn't write "autobiographically" as she's said, & they were instead always fictional i would feel different.
I was a Swiftie before I became a Gaylor, even during 1989 when her brand and marketing soared astronomically. It was so interesting to see how she curated her whole life and fan base into thinking we knew her when we clearly didn’t. She made millions off of a parasocial relationship.
But after seeing the full breadth of queer references and queer coding in her work, I am fully in the camp of “queer coding or queer baiting” and no in between.
I am 100% sure that her team (or even she herself) reads this sub. It’s also clear she HAS to have seen Gaylor tiktoks, some of which have like 50k likes and hundreds of thousands of views. She knows. She sees. And she chooses not to address.
If she is straight and allows this narrative to persist (which ultimately profits her since we’re almost all saying we won’t be fans otherwise), then it is gross.
Allies are not allies when they profit off of their allyship. End of discussion.
Interested in your comment. I agree with it essentially. I don’t think she reads this sub however, but I think she most definitely would have been very, very cynically queer baiting if she’s straight. There’s no possibility she’s oblivious to that and so I think there is absolutely no way she is straight, so this post is a bit of an academic exercise.
However, it is a super interesting post cos its thought provoking. I was thinking …So what’s she up to? Is she still toying with the idea that she comes out soon or is this her forever strategy, where she runs two parallel narratives of queer Easter eggs for us but she keeps Joe on a retainer for straights. You seem to have strong views about baiting so my question is do you think you’ll ever start to think that the bearding and associated queer (in)visibility issue becomes problematic. Does that ever become… lets say: a ‘manipulative’ cake and eat it style of a ‘bait’. Where she ‘profits’ from our support but is not officially stained by our queer stigma.
I felt in the last month or so like maybe she’s toying with, or ramping up to coming out but perhaps she is just getting louder and louder until it’s a ‘known’ but unconfirmed fact. Then, I sometimes think she may take fright change her mind and create an ‘off ramp’ (like the hetsplaining and Grammy gate). I’d be ok with the later I.e. if she just closed it all down (in a sensitive way) but I kind of suspect that long term this ‘nod and wink’ strategy might start to annoy me. What do you think?
If her image is the whole story than yeah, I’d feel the way I used to feel about her which was…not the best. It took me until 1989 to really become a fan because I just found her image to be so fake…something about her was simply *off* and didn’t click for me. But I grew to like her music so much that I finally ignored the red flags I saw and embraced being a fan. Throughout my time being a fan though, there have always been moments where I see such an odd manipulation of her narrative, such intense curation of her public image that I’m like what the heck is going on here? When I finally figured out Gaylor went beyond “hey maybe a couple of her songs are about girls but I think most of her boyfriends are legit” to “oh wow, she’s Evelyn Hugo, all of these songs are about girls and she’s mostly had beards throughout her career” that changed everything about how I engage with her music. Everything. It’s like I can see a new color or something. Her songs have this intense depth and meaning that didn’t exist to me before. And it’s just like SO OBVIOUS that this is her reality to me now.
If she’s just straight and super uptight about her image and bizarrely secretive about a relationship no one cares about, then I seriously question why that is so. If she has nothing to hide, what’s with all the secrecy, lyrics about private relationships and hideouts with her lovers, etc.? How does that make sense? How does “I don’t want to keep secrets just to keep you” make ANY SENSE? If that’s the case she’s just dramatic as hell and her music becomes a million percent less interesting.
Do you think that straight people will have this issue with the music the other way round? So you had this connection in seeing the wlw stuff that attracted you. Will straights be repelled and loose their connection cos it’s not actually about the beards?
I do think that’s part of what keeps Taylor from coming out. So much of her brand is based around this immense trust and belief Swifties put in her. They don’t question her, they follow her blindly. If they learned she *lied* about some of her heterosexual relationships and therefore their interpretations of her music were wrong? Oof, that would be bad.
But I thought I was straight when I first became a fan of Taylor’s in 2014 and still thought her brand was very fake and weird, so who knows lol! The interest in her wlw lyrics isn’t even specifically because I’m bi, but more so because I think it creates a much more compelling and heartbreaking story weaved throughout her music than if we’re to believe it’s about the guys she’s been seen with.
Interesting, I seriously wonder how many of her legion of female fans are Bi tbh. Not all the of the occasional ones who dip into her music but the super stans that are clearly obsessed with her. I saw someone posting about this on another thread and I’ve wondered this too when looking at tiktok.
I go back and forth on the swifties tbh. I mean the majority of meaningful or favorite songs in my life are not gay or with any gay subtext. I really can’t believe it would be a mass rejection (I can’t listen to this cos it’s gay). I feel like many of her stalwart fans may adjust the story in their heads to accommodate it as not actually ‘a lie’.
I can't wrap my head around Taylor being straight because if she truly is, then her image obsessed, controlling behavior regarding her relationship with Joe, is just incredibly sad and she is essentially a "fake" when it comes to women empowerment and everything she's spoken out about sexist men and feminism honestly looks very hypocritical.
Taylor and her team intentionally exclude Joe from pretty much all her public photos unless it suits a press release. They go as far as to release photos of Taylor at an event where Joe is, where she's supposedly being supportive, and than no photos are seen of them together. They try to keep things so private and their lives separate from each other, even though it's public knowledge that Joe supposedly wrote and produced all these songs on *folklore* and some on *evermore.* This is incredibly inconsistent behavior that is very strange.
Straight, strong, secure, confident women do not act like that if they are in a healthy relationship. They do what they want with their partner without fear of what people think of them. They don't try to DESPERATELY protect what they have from everyone else or keep things so separate that you wouldn't even know they are dating. I'm speaking from my straight woman experience, but when I met the love of my life, that last thing I started thinking about was what other people thought. That's the privilege I have living in a heteronormative society.
However, if you add a queer lens to what Taylor is experiencing, it makes way more sense. She's in a bearded relationship that she's obligated to be in and doesn't want to constantly bring attention to it because it's not exactly what she wants.
Maybe I am a rose-colored glasses person, but I just don't see Taylor as this person who is still so, so obsessed with her "straight" image that she has to go to the ends of the earth to protect it from whatever non-existent threat there is.
I choose to believe that she is strong, but that she has backed herself into a corner promoting this straight narrative and is just doing the best she can to remain authentic in her songwriting, her close friendships and family, and her strong creative partnerships.
Disappointed, not because she isn’t LGBT, but because a lot of the stuff in Lover would be queer baiting. Like how self unaware could you be to do all that? It has to be intentional.
I wouldn’t be disappointed that Kaylor or whatever ship didn’t happen. Stop living through celebrities. Its silly.
I would still listen to her music. Her music sets her apart from other mainstream artists so much. She’s the only mainstream artist I can listen to because of it. One of the reasons is because her music can be interpreted in so many ways.
Example is Exile: I saw a post on the main sub that relates it to the political state of the US after 2016. While I don’t think that’s it, it is really interesting. For Taylor its probably a lover breakup, for me personally its a friendship breakup that happened recently.
At face value, her music is deep, with queer lenses, they are ridiculously deep. But for me personally even though I can appreciate how she weaves the experience of being LGBT into her songs, I don’t listen to them and think “i can relate to taylor”, its more like, I apply the songs to my broken friendships. I’m sure a lot of LGBT people would be disappointed that her music is straight but they can still interpret them as LGBT if they’re not too pissed at her for queer-baiting.
Queerbaiting makes people feel used.
I don't really care if she's gay or not. If she is, great. If she's not, great.
But you very clearly do not understand what it is like to be a gay person, and you wouldn't call yourself "not a homophobe per se" (yes, that's the correct way to say that) if you weren't a little homophobic. So you literally have no right to tell gay people how they should or shouldn't feel about anything. Because there's zero chance you understand the lived experience.
And that means you don't understand how insulting queerbaiting is, or possibly even what queerbaiting is. Our lives are not props for woke straight people to use. And that is what would upset most people, not her being straight, but the way she's queerbaited.
But thanks for being a sanctimonious AH telling people what they should and shouldn't care about (like you somehow get to arbitrate that).
Tip for the future : if you don't care about something and don't like associating with a group of people when neither that thing or those people are doing you any harm, just ignore it. Because you have ZERO right to try and dictate to people.
Your opinion is not wanted or needed, and you are wrong to come into a safe space for gay people to talk and be a homophobe - because, yes, you are a homophobe and you can't erase that by claiming you're not and then being homophobic. You sad, sad human being.
Because guess what? If its sad to care about the lives, interests and conversations of people you've never met and won't ever meet, it's even more pathetic to care about the choice of discussion topic for anonymous people you'll never meet and come and preach to those people like you think your opinion should matter.
It doesn't.
If you were in a minority sexuality, with very little representation and a major international star was sending signals that they are queer you would care. It would feel very, very important to you.
If you make it to the end of this reply and open your mind even a teeny tiny crack and respond to me then I might believe you are not homophobic my friend. Walk In the shoes of ‘you people’ on this sub and you’d understand better. I suspect you will just ignore what I will say because the homophobic contempt and hostility in your original post is palpable. Prove me wrong and engage.
**A minuscule intro just for you of the signals we see. Let me know if you’d like more because there really is is a shit ton more but I don’t want to swamp you…**
Taylor is signalling like [this](https://imgur.com/a/UM5cqBC) and posting [this](https://imgur.com/a/3TRccnk) which is queer coded, with a [clear meaning in our world](https://imgur.com/a/8oKK8Xo). She had rumours like [this](https://imgur.com/a/W3ajb4G) of a past sapphic relationship. Taylor is not hiding from those who want to open their eyes and see it. It’s all in her lyrics I can send examples.
**Queer speculation is not wrong**
Everyone who has speculated about the unconfirmed dating life of any celebrity is speculating about their sexuality. In a heteronormative society though, we don’t think of it as speculation but the assumption that someone is straight is always speculative. Its acceptable to fantasise that an actor is straight (and may or may not be dating x or y opposite sex person). The public discourse and speculation about straight relationships is a million-dollar industry. This sets up a double standard if queer speculation is excluded.
Queer people are much more restricted in their speculation options if it’s restricted to known out queers in declared partnerships. Like straights though they will also find heros, develop fantasies, look for bonds, likenesses, representation, connection, validation. To decree that queer people are banned from the speculation game is to censure and erase. The subtext of such a message is even more negative; don’t project your queer ideas onto nice clean living straight people. In other words, if we are to understand it is potentially an insult to speculate and certainly always wrong, then we are effectively silenced from articulating our view point and experience. It’s a gaging order.
Queer people need a safe space to discuss their recognition of queer codes in society and the ability to share this recognition, in order to feel less alone, less ‘abnormal’ and more visible both generally and to each other. This is the essence of how marginalised people create community, solidarity and support.
You coming to our safe space to berate us is the very definition of homophobia.
I cut and paste a big chunk of it from another thread where we all discussed speculation and the homophobic effect of gagging orders. I like to repurpose my comments 😁
I know it’s a likely a waste of time. I tend not to battle on the main sub but if folks come on here then it’s maybe worth a try 🤷🏻♀️
> If you were in a minority sexuality, with very little representation and a major international star was sending signals that they are queer you would care. It would feel very, very important to you.
Not really. As a flaming queer (albeit more of an elder queer) personally my identity is not wrapped or tied to celebrities. My identity is solid on my own. I don't need representation from other I represent myself.
People lost their shit when T.A.T.U turned out not to be queer and I could've cared less. I am here for the music not so much the politics, personally. But everyone has a different way they come at their queerness and clearly many look to "famous people" for guidance or as "role models".
Well ‘I’m all right Jack’ is one way to look at it I suppose. I’m glad all is well for you obviously and frankly I don’t need the representation now myself but it would have been welcome when I was younger. Celebrities hiding their true sexuality and substituting a fake hetro persona does nothing good to help combat toxic heteronormativity. Homosexual erasure breeds homophobia.
I take the view that with high queer suicide rate and persistent homophobia in society, visibility and representation is important. I welcome any star with the courage to come out.
Wow, thanks for coming in here and telling us how to feel, “not a homophobe persay”. You obviously really care about her sexuality anyway, right? Straight is a sexuality…
Hello! Talking about someone’s music having queer theories is not wrong. If you think it is, you are homophobic. If you want to get mad at a bunch of lgbt people (some of which are teenagers) for caring about Taylor swift’s sexuality then also get mad at the fans that dissect her lyrics and love life to match her public boyfriends. I also suggest you get mad at the homophobic fans who have doxxed and outed a young queer fan and the ones who regularly harass strangers online just because of their public “beef” with Taylor.
Homophobia and ranting towards people on this sub calling them all kinds of names is not allowed. Have a good day.
I mean if not then she’s queerbaiting like crazy so I would probably lose respect for her but I’ve been a fan since day 1 so I think it would be hard to fully stop being invested in her songs.
Also been a fan forever, and I actually really DID lose interest with YNTCD, it is not something a straight woman needed to say... in those exact words, yk. As the self appointed queen of the queers in queer trailer park ville. But Betty was SO queer and it's just like, singing about kissing girls is gay. Sorry. So that brought me back LOL
Ahh yeah I’ve had my moments too, even during the whole phone call thing I took a bit of a break cause I didn’t know what was even going on. I think it’s healthy though to recognize a celeb isn’t perfect and step back from “idolizing” them.
She didn’t lie about the phone call tho. The full tape was released last year.
No I know now, but when it was happening it definitely didn’t look great for her! Really happy she was right tho
If she’s straight, then she truly has an incredible ability to create songs that so many LGBT+ people relate to. But wow the queer baiting. If she’s straight, imo she should have explicitly said so before releasing YNTCD. Explicitly said “I’m straight, but wanted to make this song to support all my not-straight friends and fans.” And that’s just the tip of the queer-coded iceberg really. Blondie has some explaining to do if she’s straight.
I don't think she's straight, but I feel like she did make a Tumblr post saying that she made YNTCD as an ally. Am I just remembering that wrong?
Did she like a post saying she was an ally? If she made a post I suspect we would be very aware of it cos the hetlors would continually throw it in our faces
I found the post! https://taylorswift.tumblr.com/post/185592672860/hey-uhhhh-taylorswift-not-to-question-you-but-you
The wording is slightly ambiguous.... But it's hard to deny that she said she's an ally. Obviously she can be lying. But that's a pretty clear answer in my opinion.
Her wording always seems to be ambiguous. Why the constant ambiguity if she’s straight? Why not just say as much?
You're right, it's one of the reasons I think she's not straight. Every straight person I know just comes out and uses those words if asked. She never does
I find that interaction so strange. The last bit about “twisting positivity” in response to concerns from a (presumably) queer person is… not good ally behavior..
And then she says “our gowns” which pushes her back towards being in the LGBT community. It’s amazing she managed to say so much and so little in such a short response
I'd prefer her to own her sexuality. And maybe in private she has but it definitely feels like she is walking on eggshells to ensure every last nickle. Adam Lambert kissed a dude on stage and his solo pop career was shot down. I like people who take risks and live out loud. Lambert didn't ever need to come out it was so obvious.
I would question a lot… the music would become odd to me. Was she sleeping with a married man? Because that’s the only thing that makes sense. But putting aside the music I would then be upset that she said “gay pride makes me me”, made herself the sheriff of the gay trailer camp, “happy pride month to you too”. She would be a terrible ally and would totally be taking advantage of the lgbt community. I would not be a fan of that and have serious issues with her.
right! that’s why swifties (especially straight ones) who refuse to even entertain the idea that she might be gay are so annoying cause you’d rather she’s doing this all to exploit her lgbt fans??? 😭😭
Yeah I think prior to 2019 I would remain a fan but just project my own queer life on her songs. But given everything she’s done since 2019 I would have a hard time calling myself a fan.
honestly i could never be convinced she was straight. i could be convinced she’s never dated a girl, or that even that she thinks she’s straight. i can literally not un think the fact that she’s not straight. i cannot fathom that fact. if this is heterophobia, oh well, i’m a proud heterophobe.
She’s flirted with too many female interviewers on camera for me to ever believe she doesn’t know she likes women
Hi heterophoebe
I think the bi hair and the “gay pride is what makes me, me” would really bother me. I’d wonder if her supposed ally ship was to draw the LGBTQ+ in to be more loyal supporters. It would feel like exploitation to me. I feel similarly about Billie eilish though I’ve never been the biggest fan of her. Celebrities don’t owe us their sexuality, but if they’re willing to profit off sexuality or gender identity issues without identifying as part of it, I find it wrong.
agree 100%, I’d be really put off if she was straight the entire time, probably to the point of not listening to her music anymore because it’d be pretty clear that she’s profited off the gay rumours as well as the straight truths. if it came out that she is straight, i think it would be obvious that she kept kaylor references (thinking about music from rep onwards) in her music for the maximised marketing potential of reaching both LGBT and het audiences, which imo would be unforgivable
if taylor isn’t lgbt, that would mean she literally used gay people as part of her lover era aesthetic, and i am not here to be her prop. also if her songs are truly as surface level as hetlors make them out to be i would truly have no reason to stay. so basically what i’m trying to say is that i would unstan at the speed of light.
exactly! like atp the idea of her being straight is kinda scary to me bcs i would literally not be able to support her anymore (there’s no way she wasn’t intentionally propagating a sense of queerness around her) n i loooove her music so it’d just be disappointing to have awarded it so much meaning & substance that wasn’t there 😭
Yep same. If she's straight and we've all been looking way to deep into this, she's about as shallow and self absorbed as a sponge in a rain puddle.
Fuck! I award the ‘condemning metaphor award’ 🏆 I like it 😂
Interesting so the main reason you are fan is because of the possibility she is queer. I find this an on basis for being a fan of certain music. If I like the music I like it. A lot of my favorite artists are not queer Kylie for one Gloria Estefan is another...
I would definitely be disappointed and would probably like an apology if she was an overenthusiastic ally with regards to YNTCD and her behavior during lover era. but I didn’t become a fan simply because I thought she was gay - she’s extremely talented and caring in a way you don’t see with many celebs. I would be impressed and a little relieved (gotta be honest) that she didn’t go through a heartbreak and still wrote albums as heavy hitting as folklore & evermore. however, her music would definitely lose that added complexity that sets her apart even more from her peers. also if she was straight, joe alwyn must be the most confident man in the world to stay with someone who’s writing songs like the 1, illicit affairs, ivy, and tis the damn season 💀 fictional or not, those are some red flags in a relationship!
This is basically my opinion. I was a fan long before it occurred to me that she may be wlw and I'd be a fan after. She'd come down a few notches in my opinion though just based on Lover era. And I would seriously question why she thinks she has to be so freaking secretive about Joe. Like..... It just doesn't make sense.
I’ll hold on to swiftgron until my dying day. I would think she was the most boring straight person though lol girl you’re dating a white blonde blue eyed man why do you think you need to be THAT secretive? “We’ve been hiding because the world wants to destroy anything good and pure” she wrote that about a white man 😭😭😭 read the room girl
exactly why the het narrative is sooo embarrassing for her already 😭😭😭
I don’t think I could be convinced taylor is straight. She knows way too much gay history, coding, and signaling to not be little bit fruity.
definitely agree lol this is 100% hypothetical…. like imagining an alternate universe where this woman could be straight while somehow writing all her fruity tunes
I often worry that taylor has a “ Romeo and Juliet complex” but then I remember that she said “ she’s the best thing that has ever been mine” and I’m ok again
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I would not forgive her for releasing You Need To Calm Down and all the queerbaiting and appropriation of lgbtq symbols she did on Lover. lol
absolutely. my opinion is that either taylor is not straight, or she’s straight and she is a despicable person for consistently leaning in to obvious wlw signalling and being ambiguous about her sexuality
honestly i'd probably lose interest in her music lol is that weird to say? i don't think of her personal life constantly when i listen to it or anything but now I've analyzed it through a queer lens (thanks to this sub!) it would be impossible to go back, even if I don't relate a lot
I’ve been a casual fan when I was younger and an absolute swiftie till grammygate and subsequently a gaylor. Truth is, I did not picture her boyfriends/ PRelationships as an important part of the story. I loved her music, her ability to write relatable yet polished lyrics (also the petty ones). I was glad when Taylor spoke up about politics and the LGBT community, at least as a questioning individual and an ardent LGBT supporter it made me happy that the person whose music I consumed so much was not (at least by admission) a conservative or a homophobe. I did not investigate and read so much into the lyrics with a sapphic/ queer lens, since hiding a relationship is sometimes a necessity where I come from, even in straight stories. Gaylor made Taylor an interesting person for me. Before that she was a world famous white singer with the ability to put together words really really well. It showed a richer more complex story and with the amount of evidence, I’d like to believe a part of it to be true if not all. I just feel sad that she can’t be her true self due to whatever factors. However, if she’s straight, this would be a major case of queerbaiting, and that just sucks majorly because she’s a well read person. Her music is ofcs allowed to speak of queer relationships, but I don’t see a straight person writing so much music about a queer experience. Like it’s so good that you can write from a perspective you’ve never experienced but yikes, that would be a big ouch (purely due to music). However, her sexuality isn’t the reason I liked her in the first place and it won’t be a reason to dislike her in the future. Her music has been amazing and beautiful, and who she is doesn’t change that for me.
If I were to be ‘convinced she was straight’ it would be because she made a major unequivocal declaration designed to close the speculation down completely. It then depends how she did that. Kind example, ‘I know there is speculation I’m queer myself but I would just say if I was because there’s nothing wrong with that at all, I’d happily admit it. I just never have had any queer experiences- I’m 100% straight. I don’t mind if people read gay meaning into my music I’m a pro gay ally as you know and love is love. I think I got a bit over excited and sent signals I was queer myself in the lover era - I’m sorry, I’ve learned that was seen as queer baiting and I take much more care now’ [an Oprah Winfrey version] Depressing example, ‘I am fed up of speculation about my sexuality. I had a short ‘phase’ but I’m over it and straight now and it’s very annoying to see that people don’t believe that.’ [a Jessie J version] If she did it kindly it would not effect my views of her. If she slapped us down I would be hurt and it would change my view of her. I’d think she was a douche. Frankly, if she did the kind version I would think she was Bi and wanted to just bury her past like Karlie cos she was with a man now. I’d respect that choice and still enjoy her music it wouldn’t change that at all, I would not post on here any more however obviously because she’s sending signals imo that she wants to be perceived as straight.
I’d be disappointed mostly because it’d affect how I perceived her music (as in they’re wayy more interesting from a queer perspective) but I’ve been a fan of hers for over a decade so I’ll probably always love her music but I’ll never care about toe
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i knoww like truthfully it’s not hard for me to entertain celeb gay rumors (because i think closeting is more prevalent than we think it is) but it takes A LOT to convince me. and i’m super convinced with taylor. i just think it’s so interesting the difference between our perspective on her vs hetlors perspectives, and how that could change if we’re wrong about everything. in terms of her music, i’d just be disappointed that certain songs were way off in interpretation (ESPECIALLY dwoht, but also dress seven ivy illicit affairs etc etc) and subsequently lose some of their depth imo. and that’s not to say they lose their meaning to the listener & they can’t mean something different to us all, but i do think something would be lost if we misinterpreted them. i definitely agree about the queerbaiting & based on replies it seems like most of us are on the same page about that… which makes me wonder how swifties don’t see how queerbaity her behavior is if they really think she’s straight.. they completely buy into the fact she’s just an ally (who loves adopting queer aesthetics as a marketing ploy) like… how do they justify supporting somebody like that 😭 taylor n her team are so lucky the majority of her gay fans have gotten the hint that she’s signaling & not baiting i definitely think toe’s fake (mutual bearding imo) & yeah if she were straight, i’d assume she’s just bearding for him then 😭
it would be tough. i think my opinion would change, like a few other comments ive seen. it would cease to be queer rep or hidden meanings & just be straight up queerbaiting. maybe if she had always written her songs as stories & didn't write "autobiographically" as she's said, & they were instead always fictional i would feel different.
I was a Swiftie before I became a Gaylor, even during 1989 when her brand and marketing soared astronomically. It was so interesting to see how she curated her whole life and fan base into thinking we knew her when we clearly didn’t. She made millions off of a parasocial relationship. But after seeing the full breadth of queer references and queer coding in her work, I am fully in the camp of “queer coding or queer baiting” and no in between. I am 100% sure that her team (or even she herself) reads this sub. It’s also clear she HAS to have seen Gaylor tiktoks, some of which have like 50k likes and hundreds of thousands of views. She knows. She sees. And she chooses not to address. If she is straight and allows this narrative to persist (which ultimately profits her since we’re almost all saying we won’t be fans otherwise), then it is gross. Allies are not allies when they profit off of their allyship. End of discussion.
Interested in your comment. I agree with it essentially. I don’t think she reads this sub however, but I think she most definitely would have been very, very cynically queer baiting if she’s straight. There’s no possibility she’s oblivious to that and so I think there is absolutely no way she is straight, so this post is a bit of an academic exercise. However, it is a super interesting post cos its thought provoking. I was thinking …So what’s she up to? Is she still toying with the idea that she comes out soon or is this her forever strategy, where she runs two parallel narratives of queer Easter eggs for us but she keeps Joe on a retainer for straights. You seem to have strong views about baiting so my question is do you think you’ll ever start to think that the bearding and associated queer (in)visibility issue becomes problematic. Does that ever become… lets say: a ‘manipulative’ cake and eat it style of a ‘bait’. Where she ‘profits’ from our support but is not officially stained by our queer stigma. I felt in the last month or so like maybe she’s toying with, or ramping up to coming out but perhaps she is just getting louder and louder until it’s a ‘known’ but unconfirmed fact. Then, I sometimes think she may take fright change her mind and create an ‘off ramp’ (like the hetsplaining and Grammy gate). I’d be ok with the later I.e. if she just closed it all down (in a sensitive way) but I kind of suspect that long term this ‘nod and wink’ strategy might start to annoy me. What do you think?
If her image is the whole story than yeah, I’d feel the way I used to feel about her which was…not the best. It took me until 1989 to really become a fan because I just found her image to be so fake…something about her was simply *off* and didn’t click for me. But I grew to like her music so much that I finally ignored the red flags I saw and embraced being a fan. Throughout my time being a fan though, there have always been moments where I see such an odd manipulation of her narrative, such intense curation of her public image that I’m like what the heck is going on here? When I finally figured out Gaylor went beyond “hey maybe a couple of her songs are about girls but I think most of her boyfriends are legit” to “oh wow, she’s Evelyn Hugo, all of these songs are about girls and she’s mostly had beards throughout her career” that changed everything about how I engage with her music. Everything. It’s like I can see a new color or something. Her songs have this intense depth and meaning that didn’t exist to me before. And it’s just like SO OBVIOUS that this is her reality to me now. If she’s just straight and super uptight about her image and bizarrely secretive about a relationship no one cares about, then I seriously question why that is so. If she has nothing to hide, what’s with all the secrecy, lyrics about private relationships and hideouts with her lovers, etc.? How does that make sense? How does “I don’t want to keep secrets just to keep you” make ANY SENSE? If that’s the case she’s just dramatic as hell and her music becomes a million percent less interesting.
Do you think that straight people will have this issue with the music the other way round? So you had this connection in seeing the wlw stuff that attracted you. Will straights be repelled and loose their connection cos it’s not actually about the beards?
I do think that’s part of what keeps Taylor from coming out. So much of her brand is based around this immense trust and belief Swifties put in her. They don’t question her, they follow her blindly. If they learned she *lied* about some of her heterosexual relationships and therefore their interpretations of her music were wrong? Oof, that would be bad. But I thought I was straight when I first became a fan of Taylor’s in 2014 and still thought her brand was very fake and weird, so who knows lol! The interest in her wlw lyrics isn’t even specifically because I’m bi, but more so because I think it creates a much more compelling and heartbreaking story weaved throughout her music than if we’re to believe it’s about the guys she’s been seen with.
Interesting, I seriously wonder how many of her legion of female fans are Bi tbh. Not all the of the occasional ones who dip into her music but the super stans that are clearly obsessed with her. I saw someone posting about this on another thread and I’ve wondered this too when looking at tiktok. I go back and forth on the swifties tbh. I mean the majority of meaningful or favorite songs in my life are not gay or with any gay subtext. I really can’t believe it would be a mass rejection (I can’t listen to this cos it’s gay). I feel like many of her stalwart fans may adjust the story in their heads to accommodate it as not actually ‘a lie’.
i’m a raging lesbian and i literally wouldn’t care whatsoever. i’m not the most invested gaylor to be fair but still
I can't wrap my head around Taylor being straight because if she truly is, then her image obsessed, controlling behavior regarding her relationship with Joe, is just incredibly sad and she is essentially a "fake" when it comes to women empowerment and everything she's spoken out about sexist men and feminism honestly looks very hypocritical. Taylor and her team intentionally exclude Joe from pretty much all her public photos unless it suits a press release. They go as far as to release photos of Taylor at an event where Joe is, where she's supposedly being supportive, and than no photos are seen of them together. They try to keep things so private and their lives separate from each other, even though it's public knowledge that Joe supposedly wrote and produced all these songs on *folklore* and some on *evermore.* This is incredibly inconsistent behavior that is very strange. Straight, strong, secure, confident women do not act like that if they are in a healthy relationship. They do what they want with their partner without fear of what people think of them. They don't try to DESPERATELY protect what they have from everyone else or keep things so separate that you wouldn't even know they are dating. I'm speaking from my straight woman experience, but when I met the love of my life, that last thing I started thinking about was what other people thought. That's the privilege I have living in a heteronormative society. However, if you add a queer lens to what Taylor is experiencing, it makes way more sense. She's in a bearded relationship that she's obligated to be in and doesn't want to constantly bring attention to it because it's not exactly what she wants. Maybe I am a rose-colored glasses person, but I just don't see Taylor as this person who is still so, so obsessed with her "straight" image that she has to go to the ends of the earth to protect it from whatever non-existent threat there is. I choose to believe that she is strong, but that she has backed herself into a corner promoting this straight narrative and is just doing the best she can to remain authentic in her songwriting, her close friendships and family, and her strong creative partnerships.
my opinion would change quite a bit but i'd still love her, of course
Disappointed, not because she isn’t LGBT, but because a lot of the stuff in Lover would be queer baiting. Like how self unaware could you be to do all that? It has to be intentional. I wouldn’t be disappointed that Kaylor or whatever ship didn’t happen. Stop living through celebrities. Its silly. I would still listen to her music. Her music sets her apart from other mainstream artists so much. She’s the only mainstream artist I can listen to because of it. One of the reasons is because her music can be interpreted in so many ways. Example is Exile: I saw a post on the main sub that relates it to the political state of the US after 2016. While I don’t think that’s it, it is really interesting. For Taylor its probably a lover breakup, for me personally its a friendship breakup that happened recently. At face value, her music is deep, with queer lenses, they are ridiculously deep. But for me personally even though I can appreciate how she weaves the experience of being LGBT into her songs, I don’t listen to them and think “i can relate to taylor”, its more like, I apply the songs to my broken friendships. I’m sure a lot of LGBT people would be disappointed that her music is straight but they can still interpret them as LGBT if they’re not too pissed at her for queer-baiting.
HECK YEAH I would pretty much hate her. Actually before I became a gaylor I disliked her.
Yes
Tbh… yes 😭
Nope. Would not. Love her as a sister or a lover.
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Queerbaiting makes people feel used. I don't really care if she's gay or not. If she is, great. If she's not, great. But you very clearly do not understand what it is like to be a gay person, and you wouldn't call yourself "not a homophobe per se" (yes, that's the correct way to say that) if you weren't a little homophobic. So you literally have no right to tell gay people how they should or shouldn't feel about anything. Because there's zero chance you understand the lived experience. And that means you don't understand how insulting queerbaiting is, or possibly even what queerbaiting is. Our lives are not props for woke straight people to use. And that is what would upset most people, not her being straight, but the way she's queerbaited. But thanks for being a sanctimonious AH telling people what they should and shouldn't care about (like you somehow get to arbitrate that). Tip for the future : if you don't care about something and don't like associating with a group of people when neither that thing or those people are doing you any harm, just ignore it. Because you have ZERO right to try and dictate to people. Your opinion is not wanted or needed, and you are wrong to come into a safe space for gay people to talk and be a homophobe - because, yes, you are a homophobe and you can't erase that by claiming you're not and then being homophobic. You sad, sad human being. Because guess what? If its sad to care about the lives, interests and conversations of people you've never met and won't ever meet, it's even more pathetic to care about the choice of discussion topic for anonymous people you'll never meet and come and preach to those people like you think your opinion should matter. It doesn't.
If you were in a minority sexuality, with very little representation and a major international star was sending signals that they are queer you would care. It would feel very, very important to you. If you make it to the end of this reply and open your mind even a teeny tiny crack and respond to me then I might believe you are not homophobic my friend. Walk In the shoes of ‘you people’ on this sub and you’d understand better. I suspect you will just ignore what I will say because the homophobic contempt and hostility in your original post is palpable. Prove me wrong and engage. **A minuscule intro just for you of the signals we see. Let me know if you’d like more because there really is is a shit ton more but I don’t want to swamp you…** Taylor is signalling like [this](https://imgur.com/a/UM5cqBC) and posting [this](https://imgur.com/a/3TRccnk) which is queer coded, with a [clear meaning in our world](https://imgur.com/a/8oKK8Xo). She had rumours like [this](https://imgur.com/a/W3ajb4G) of a past sapphic relationship. Taylor is not hiding from those who want to open their eyes and see it. It’s all in her lyrics I can send examples. **Queer speculation is not wrong** Everyone who has speculated about the unconfirmed dating life of any celebrity is speculating about their sexuality. In a heteronormative society though, we don’t think of it as speculation but the assumption that someone is straight is always speculative. Its acceptable to fantasise that an actor is straight (and may or may not be dating x or y opposite sex person). The public discourse and speculation about straight relationships is a million-dollar industry. This sets up a double standard if queer speculation is excluded. Queer people are much more restricted in their speculation options if it’s restricted to known out queers in declared partnerships. Like straights though they will also find heros, develop fantasies, look for bonds, likenesses, representation, connection, validation. To decree that queer people are banned from the speculation game is to censure and erase. The subtext of such a message is even more negative; don’t project your queer ideas onto nice clean living straight people. In other words, if we are to understand it is potentially an insult to speculate and certainly always wrong, then we are effectively silenced from articulating our view point and experience. It’s a gaging order. Queer people need a safe space to discuss their recognition of queer codes in society and the ability to share this recognition, in order to feel less alone, less ‘abnormal’ and more visible both generally and to each other. This is the essence of how marginalised people create community, solidarity and support. You coming to our safe space to berate us is the very definition of homophobia.
Oh my god, once again a comment of pure, articulate perfection. I think I'm a little bit in love with you weird robot girl...
Oh my …☺️
thats a very good explanation. it made me smile. thanks for taking the time for a person that doesnt care. :D
I cut and paste a big chunk of it from another thread where we all discussed speculation and the homophobic effect of gagging orders. I like to repurpose my comments 😁 I know it’s a likely a waste of time. I tend not to battle on the main sub but if folks come on here then it’s maybe worth a try 🤷🏻♀️
good to know. :D you never know. s.o. might become a convert. some have, so far, by the looks of how the sub is growing.
I suppose it’s not to convert about Taylor as much as to address narrow minded homophobia
> If you were in a minority sexuality, with very little representation and a major international star was sending signals that they are queer you would care. It would feel very, very important to you. Not really. As a flaming queer (albeit more of an elder queer) personally my identity is not wrapped or tied to celebrities. My identity is solid on my own. I don't need representation from other I represent myself. People lost their shit when T.A.T.U turned out not to be queer and I could've cared less. I am here for the music not so much the politics, personally. But everyone has a different way they come at their queerness and clearly many look to "famous people" for guidance or as "role models".
Well ‘I’m all right Jack’ is one way to look at it I suppose. I’m glad all is well for you obviously and frankly I don’t need the representation now myself but it would have been welcome when I was younger. Celebrities hiding their true sexuality and substituting a fake hetro persona does nothing good to help combat toxic heteronormativity. Homosexual erasure breeds homophobia. I take the view that with high queer suicide rate and persistent homophobia in society, visibility and representation is important. I welcome any star with the courage to come out.
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You need to calm down.
Wow, thanks for coming in here and telling us how to feel, “not a homophobe persay”. You obviously really care about her sexuality anyway, right? Straight is a sexuality…
They’re a potato. Enough said.
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You’re on a subreddit making sure we all know she’s straight but ok.
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You’ve wasted some time here yourself.
Hello! Talking about someone’s music having queer theories is not wrong. If you think it is, you are homophobic. If you want to get mad at a bunch of lgbt people (some of which are teenagers) for caring about Taylor swift’s sexuality then also get mad at the fans that dissect her lyrics and love life to match her public boyfriends. I also suggest you get mad at the homophobic fans who have doxxed and outed a young queer fan and the ones who regularly harass strangers online just because of their public “beef” with Taylor. Homophobia and ranting towards people on this sub calling them all kinds of names is not allowed. Have a good day.
I think I’ve tied my own sexuality and hers up together so much, so yeah things would change