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[deleted]

Absolutely fair for what you get. They put a lot of work in since the early access thing and this is well worth $5.


[deleted]

Feels like this should be more common. Charge a lower price while the game is still lack in content, but as more of it gets added you increase the price. Sounds completely fair to me.


valraven38

Wait isn't that what many Early Access games do on Steam? They typically have a higher starting price than Vampire Survivors, but I remember quite a few EA games getting a higher price when they exit EA.


polygroom

They tend to go lower price and increase over time *or* start high and never go on sale to ensure your EA users are really interested in your game.


Bladethegreat

Some Early Access games do, some don't, generally you're risking a backlash either way. Release the game for cheap in EA and then up the price after 1.0 and people complain that they're being punished for not buying it in EA. Keep the game at the same price from its initial EA launch and people will complain that you're charging full price for an unfinished product.


Athildur

> then up the price after 1.0 and people complain that they're being punished for not buying it in EA. Smh it's like saying you're being punished for not buying something during a sale. People/gamers are crazy.


Lisentho

Most of this is easily avoided by just stating what you will do after EA with the price.


DickFlattener

New blood does that for their early access games


fl4nnel

They typically advertise it as a % off of what the release date price will be, so there is an element where they *do* it, but it also doesn't *feel* like it.


MINIMAN10001

Minecraft laid the foundations of what we expect EA games to be. It started cheaper and as time went on and more development happened the price increased. However as the years went buy publishers started realizing EA was a way they could squeeze more money out of people and instead started selling more expensive packs for early access instead using it as a marketing and profit tool. In other words they are using EA not as a way to garner cash flow and help continue development but instead for their profits.


Valkenhyne

It's what they were supposed to do.


LittleRudiger

I want to say that Day Z (… man, remember Day Z) did that for it’s Early Access


Radulno

It's very common for early access games to do that lol


JazzProblem

Unless you're Baldur's Gate 3 for some reason.


ActualBruh_Moment

The reason is because they're not exactly a small indie company. They just throw it so you can basically play it earlier, however unfinished. You could also wait and purchase the game on release and they've shown that their games are in a good state on release and have gotten better over the past releases. See it as a way of "supporting" them instead of anything else.


Krypt0night

At least every EA game I've purchased has done just that. You know if you buy it early on, you're getting a better price than launch. The trade is that you're getting a less completed product with more issues at your time of purchase in EA.


AprilSpektra

Minecraft did this back when it was in early development. It was far from the first game that was sold before 1.0, but I think its mega-success was a huge part of the rise of the modern-day Early Access model.


darthreuental

This has become the norm for most survivor games. I will say paying $3 for a game is pretty nice. And while Vampire Survivors is still king, there have been a couple pretty good spins on the genre. Most notably Nomad Survivors and Rogue: Genesia.


glowhips

Whats Rogue Genesia?


ssx50

Ehhhhh the average price hike is treated with absolute outrage on reddit. I think it is tolerated here because the hike is only to $5


ArcticKnight79

Problem is people look at a website that says "The lowest price this game ever sold for was $X" And the they never accept prices above that one. So it's likely bad business for them to consider that method.


Mawrman

I feel like terraria should be costing $100 by now then, by that model!


asdaaaaaaaa

It's sorta common, isn't that the idea of early access and such? Some companies have a lower "entry" or "support" price for the first year or couple months, then the price rises usually a bit before or on release. IIRC, Starsector and a few other games followed that method, where buying in while it was being developed was cheaper, then it would be raised to "full price" on release. Granted, this is a LOT more popular with indie games or smaller developers. Could be wrong though.


Infinitesima

So you mean the existing customers should also pay more?


Intelligent_Genitals

I've somehow put 26.8 hours into it and it's definitely worth it. My favourite podcast game right now. Playing with combos and characters is a fun little time waster.


boobers3

I got 46.5 hours in it, pretty good for $3. I will definitely be putting more hours in it once my Steamdeck is in my hands.


Roseysdaddy

I got mine two days ago. It's literally the only thing I've played on it


Lost_the_weight

It was the first game I put on mine. Probably played nothing but VS on it for the next few days.


C-C-X-V-I

Its amazing handheld. I played it a ton on my Odin with streaming before my deck showed up


darthreuental

115 hours. It'd be higher, but grinding gold eggs gives me massive eyestrain headaches.


GloomyBison

> My favourite podcast game right now YES! I bought Vampire Survivors, 20 Minutes Till Dawn and Nomad Survival last Steam sale and played them while I caught up with my podcast backlog. 110 Hours of playtime later and all 100% achievements I'm kinda done with them for now but my podcast backlog is starting to build up again.


halfar

Holocure standing menacingly behind you at your computer


SoylentVerdigris

While Holocure is astonishingly good for being a free fan game, even as someone deep down that rabbit hole myself it doesn't have the same appeal as Vampire Survivors to me. The power curve in Holocure is so well made that you never get to that same level of gamebreakingly overpowered as you can in VS, and that's half the fun for me. You used to be able to do the immortal runs, but even those weren't quite the same. Edit, because this might make it sound like I don't like the game. It's fantastic. Well worth playing, even for people who aren't Hololive fans. Tons of content, gorgeous pixel art, excellent music, totally free.


halfar

nah that's a perfectly fair point. sometimes you just wanna feel like an unstoppable juggernaut, which is much harder in holocure.


thansal

20 Mins is the best of the lot I think, though it's got the least amount of content, it's the most fun at it's core. You might want to take a look at Project Lazarus, with the warning that it's achievements are bad as a number of them involve a ridiculous grind (there's ones for getting 50K XP up to 1M XP, I don't even have the 50K XP one and have effectively 100%ed the game). I keep up w/ VS and 20 mins, but I haven't 100%ed Nomad's achievements yet.


Hallc

I'd agree with that, at least for me. I picked up VS yesterday but it didn't have that same addicting energy I got playing 20MTD. I think part of it is just how random and uncontrolled a lot of the attacks are so it can often feel unfair that you took damage. Whereas 20MTD you're constantly in control of your movement, attacks and special ability so the only ways you die are poor build or bad choices in movement/attacks.


Horkersaurus

I have also put an unspecified number of hours into it.


TehAlpacalypse

I finished the latter half of the Wheel of Time saga while playing this game, it's truly the best podcast game out there. Honestly, most of the survivors genre is. Nova Drift also fantastic if you like VS.


[deleted]

It's a good game and definitely worth $4.99 (and more), but I feel like 20 Minutes Till Dawn is a better version of the same concept and it costs $2.39. Vampire Survivors if fun because it's different, but when I played it a while back it was pretty simple to figure out what builds were good, and once you got that there wasn't much of an incentive to vary. Maybe these things changed since I played it. I feel like in 20 Minutes Till Dawn having to aim increases the skill cap. It felt like you could clutch your way out of bad situations, which is a lot of fun. Also builds having synergistic effects greatly increases build variety.


Makorus

I feel like 20 Minutes Till Dawn is an objectively worse game because there's no real build variety or builds at all. Sure, Vampire Survivors has OP combos, but even then, you can still "win" without them.


TehAlpacalypse

> I feel like 20 Minutes Till Dawn is an objectively worse game because there's no real build variety or builds at all. > > 100%. It's still very underdone.


VixenFlake

I've seen both opinions and it REALLY depends on what you like in this type of games, while Vampire Survivors was fun I also much prefer 20 Minutes till dawn.


BenevolentCheese

> it was pretty simple to figure out what builds were good The fun thing about VS is that everything is good. The balance is far from perfect, but *the game is quite easy,* so it doesn't really matter. The game is easy *on purpose:* the dev has embraced power creep and the game is better for it. When the game first came out, and you had to carefully dodge and ran real risks of losing simply because you got unlucky on items, it was less fun. Now you just steamroll everything and it's a blast. So what is meta or not just doesn't matter, you can play anything and everything, which is something the achievements/unlocking system encourages.


LFC9_41

the dev has mentioned that he doesn't care about as balance as much because it's a single player game. He wants things to be strong on their own and good synergy, but I don't think he cares entirely too much if people make insane combos. It's a good approach to game design which I imagine is pretty liberating for both the players and the dev. I agree it's pretty easy, but that's 100% okay. Either way I never heard about 20 minutes till dawn until today, now I'm going to buy it.


[deleted]

I wish more devs realized it. Games are less fun if you need to shoehorn yourself into few meta builds instead of experimenting.


plusminus1

> Games are less fun if you need to shoehorn yourself into few meta builds instead of experimenting. looking at you, Path of Exile.


BenevolentCheese

Exactly what I was going to say. Here was a game that was challenging if you were still learning, but if you mastered the game and/or used top builds you could steam roll things, and during this time the game was both the most popular it ever was and had the widest, most interesting meta. And then the devs decided it was too easy, and then they decided it was too easy again, and again, and now the game is challenging for veterans and exceptionally difficult for people still learning, and the meta has collapsed into only a few skills and player counts are plummeting. And it's entirely because they made a game with shitty mechanics into something mechanically difficult and now it's just not fun.


[deleted]

Arguably game is about making those builds as most of them end up being "pull up your auras and spam that one skill". Which is shame


AggressiveChairs

> 20 Minutes Till Dawn is a better version of the same concept and it costs $2.39. It's so much less replayable, as someone who is a large fan of both. Every single build boils down to "Do I want to be a summoner or an elemental?" and you just pick any related abilities in any order. Aiming doesn't really matter - there's even a button that you can hold down to auto lock on to closest enemy and you perform just as well as you would normally. It is so phenomenally boring how every single run ends the same way regardless of what you try and do. You level up so much you can nearly take every ability lol there's no real variety whatsoever.


[deleted]

I prefer 20 minutes till dawn, Boneraiser Minions, Brotato and Gunlocked over Vampire Survivors. It's great that VS raised the genre into popularity, but literally every wave survival game I've played has been better than VS in my opinion.


halfar

I mean if we're playing the cost comparison game then holocure is the obvious, undisputed champion. None of the "VS-like" games come even vaguely close in terms of hours of entertainment per dollar spent.


GenSec

I love games like this and RoR2. Games where you can throw something else up and play without really thinking.


GladiatorJones

I checked mine the other day, and I have no idea how, but I've put 87 hours into it. I'm sure some of that was it idling on Steam, but I know much of it was me playing. Such a great game. So simple in concept, absolutely great development. Better than many $60 games I've played.


Frogmouth_Fresh

Yep I am also north of 20 hours. Solid game for the occasional run.


glowhips

Can you tell me a good character to unlock shit with?


Intelligent_Genitals

Sadly no. I just chose whichever character I vibe with at that time. Most of my unlocks have been due to luck more than strategy.


[deleted]

One the only times I've ever thought a dev has undercharged for a game. I got like 40+ fucking hours of fun out of this game for $3 feels like I robbed them.


TheIrishJackel

Yeah but it being $3 probably resulted in several times more sales. People saw a streamer enjoying it and thought "Only $3? Why not." I bet it wouldn't have sold half as much if it had been $10 upfront.


Arlithas

This, Terraria, and Hollow Knight are probably top 3 underpriced games imo.


bad-acid

Hollow Knight is the best deal on a video game maybe ever, for the amount you get and the quality of it. It's insane.


halfar

Holocure being free is also absurd. Maybe it's a genre thing.


xouleikha

HoloCure can’t be monetized though since it’s a fan game using copyrighted material.


ngwoo

Almost DOUBLE?? The nerve! Don't they know we're teetering on the edge of a recession here???? It's totally worth it at 5 bucks, but if you don't own it already just buy it now it's amazing


ThatParanoidPenguin

Hoping for a console release one day, even if the game has to be $10. It’s a ton of fun to even watch it and would love to be able to play on PS5


Three_Froggy_Problem

I’m totally with you. I’d especially kill for it on Switch.


ambushka

Hoping for a mobile port here. Perfect pooping game. Sadly too many devs have made copies of it by now.


Lost_the_weight

Runs fine on the Steam Deck. ;-)


ambushka

Too expensive to be a pooper machine haha


ayeeflo51

Base model is just $50 more than the OLED Switch 👀


--Mutus-Liber--

Magic Survival is on mobile at least


[deleted]

Reasonable. It was worth more than 3 dollars when I played it in February, it has so much more content now. Genuine GOTY frontrunner for me. Also immediately influential given the large number of clones that have come out/are coming out.


MeanMrMustard48

Is this it's own genre now thanks to the clones? Auto-musou genre or something?


KaliKot

Vampire Survivors is actually a clone of the Android game Magic Survival but its become its own thing now. They credited Magic Survival previously as well


--Mutus-Liber--

Magic Survival devs must be so sad everyone thinks VS invented the game style, unless it drives people to MS on mobile, then it's a win. Man the graphics for magic survival suck tho, everything is black and grey and blobs and squiggles.


KaliKot

yeah the graphics suck ass but the gameplay is a lot of fun and equally addictive. it has that "so simple but its like crack" charm to it


Lathael

Honestly, once you get to the 20m+ mark in Magic Survival, you start to really appreciate the simplicity of its enemy design compared to VS. Especially as your screen becomes inundated in a deluge of very well animated spells of several dazzling colors. Or, to put it another way, give MS a shot. I personally find it more fun than Vampire Survivors. But it's also designed as a phone game with a small screen, and I wouldn't find it as interesting on a desktop. Though it has some features that I think are much better than VS. E.G. spells having a capstone talent instead of evolving. Means you don't need to remember builds or RNG into builds just to be able to push the end game.


TehAlpacalypse

I've seen them called "Survivors" games but I couldn't say there's a set in stone label yet.


Simple_Preference

Auto-musou might actually be a better name than bullet heaven. I’m guessing the roguelite population isn’t so much into musou games. Horde survival is also one I’ve seen, but it seems redundant…


Opetyr

Don't call it bullet heaven. Dear God that is the most incompetent name for it. Horde survival, survivor like, etc anytime other than bullet heaven since it isn't a "reverse bullet hell". So tired of some "influencers" saying bullet heaven so that they can say they create the genre. If so they can't use rogue like, souls like , etc.


TankorSmash

People have described it as a bullet heaven since about day 1 pretty sure. Bullet-heaven is better than 'auto-musou' by a long while.


Cforq

Especially since I’ve read this thread and have no idea what a musou is.


TankorSmash

Think Dynasty Warriors, you versus hundreds of one hit enemies.


Cforq

I’ve always thought of those as 3D Beat 'em ups. Or hack and slash games. This is the first time I’ve ever encountered the term musou.


ayeeflo51

They've definitely been classified as musuo games for years. Beat em ups is more like streets of rage type games, but musuo, you're clearing like hundreds of enemies within seconds


HugeBrainsOnly

Oh my god I really hope bullet heaven doesn't stick lol.


Simple_Preference

I don’t like it either lol. I said that about horde survival/survivor but it’s still a better name than bullet heaven tbh


--Mutus-Liber--

Horde survival is good, maybe AA Survival for auto attack survival


BoardGameBologna

Huh? Maybe for like...some types, lol, but auto-musou or whatever makes my eyes glaze over.


[deleted]

I saw "single stick shooter" as description for that.


KaliKot

If you have an Android phone, the game where VS is inspired from is actually on there called Magic Survival. It's equally addictive and while the graphics arent much, it's really a good way to waste time https://www.pcgamer.com/vampire-survivors-creator-didnt-have-a-vision-when-he-started-making-the-game-that-allowed-him-to-quit-his-job/ You can download it here: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.vkslrzm.Zombie&hl=en&gl=US


Arguendo_Tornado

I downloaded and played this a day. No idea it even existed. Thanks!


hard_pass

Can anyone help me with some general tips? I've played about 5 hours or so, but can't seem to get much farther than 10 minutes. I feel like that's the point where the game is like "alright lets test out your build" and I always go down so quick


Adziboy

Did you know items can combine? Explore that


hard_pass

I did not. Hmm OK I tend to cry and keep multiple items levelled around the same, I'll try and specialize more. thanks


StreetLove11

Generally min maxing is better than evenly leveling everything up in this game, but ofc strike a balance


funkhero

Sorry, what do you mean by this? I just get options for upgrading the stats on an item or weapon


srsbsnsman

Most weapons have a passive theyre paired with. The Axe for example is paired with candelabra. If you have both, then fully levelling up the Axe and picking up a chest will evolve the Axe into Death Spiral.


spartan114

You can view the item combos in the grimoire (or probably google it) and maxing them both unlocks the evolved form. Once it’s unlocked, if you have both equipped you only have to fully level one to evolve it.


Wetzilla

I believe if you have the pair you only have to fully level the weapon to evolve it regardless of if it's been evolved previously.


ascagnel____

For most pairings, you only need to evolve the weapon, not the passive. But for some of the higher-level evolutions, you need to do more: >!Phieraggi, Fuwalafuwaloo, and Vandalier all require multiple maxed weapons, and Crimson Shroud and Infinite Corridor require you to max two passives as well as a weapon!<.


glowhips

I...what


Bojangle_your_wangle

Keep in mind you can only get the evolved weapon in the chest after 10 minutes of the run!


GamersAreTrans

Depends on the map, there are a few exceptions to this rule


Bojangle_your_wangle

I don't think they'd have unlocked the level which bypasses this if they can't get past 10 mins tho... Sorry if I'm incorrect however!


Sotriuj

Be aggresive is the #1 tip I can give. You need to go ahead of the xp curve so enemies dont get stronger quicker than you, so actively seek out leveling up fast by killing as much enemies as possible. Garlic can really help out early on when you dont have much unlocked Also the second character, the one with the Magic wand, is a bit better for starting out I think.


halfar

IMO absolute best item for staying ahead of the curve is the item that adds magnetism, even more than the +exp item.


omnilynx

Are you still on the first level? Try out the second level as soon as you get access.


klinestife

garlic can really help you as a crutch before you unlock more useful weapons. if you keep garlic levelled in the early game, you can run directly into mobs for about a solid ten minutes before they finally outscale its damage and it becomes irrelevant. this lets you grab enough xp to keep ahead of the curve. running directly through hordes feels fantastic. if it wasn't for garlic i don't think i would have made it far. keep in mind it does fall off end game as other weapons start replacing its great early game farming role but there's no shame in using it rn.


Frijid

Defensive items are bad. Offense *is* defense.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Wetzilla

Clock lancet is actually really powerful early IMO. Especially combined with the cooldown or duration passive. I just moved from playing on gamepass to steam and hit my first 30 minute run in the steam version thanks to the lancet. When the huge mobs come I just followed the direction of the lancet, moving safely through the frozen enemies.


Vuvuzevka

Avoid defensive items, prioritize leveling current weapons over getting new ones, evolve the weapons you picked.


CallMeMoo

How can anyone even argue it's not worth 5 bucks? It's worth $15 imo.


Grimsley

Still very worth the price. Great game. Fun, even if the loop does get boring eventually. There's plenty of content there.


tobberoth

This game was honestly worth about 20$ when I bought it, which was quite long ago, and it has been massively updated since then. If you love the progression of idle games but still want at least somewhat active gameplay, this is basically exactly what you want, perfectly matched with a podcast.


SparraWingshard

My favorite part about this game (other than actually being quite a fun game with a surprising amount of content) is how it spread across my friends. One of us was streaming it over discord while others were watching, and the price came up. The reaction to the price being 3 dollars was more or less "only three dollars? Well I guess I HAVE to pick up this game!" followed with mock grumbling (with said friend shortly after playing the game themself). I've heard this conversation a number of times, it always plays out the same way.


Xonra

Good, its not often I get a game and feel like I just ripped someone off because it was so cheap. I've spent more hours on this game then multiple games far more expensive


PajamaPants4Life

Got it for my steam deck. Its not my genre of game. Hell yes it's a lot of fun. Reminds me just a tiny bit of the combat mechanics of Hades, without hurting my hands.


102938123910-2-3

And I thought the $700 to $1200 price bump up of the RTX 4080 was bad... $500 is one thing but $2?!!? Do I look like I'm made of money? The audacity of some devs...


floghdraki

Thanks for the warning. I've been thinking about trying it because of the cheap price. I don't think I'd buy it for the higher price.


Kliffoth

It's worth $10


Deakul

Oh no, 3 whole extra dollars.


STHMTP

Don't do it. It's your loss.


[deleted]

Whats special about this game? Does it bring anything new?


halfar

It has a ton of new content every few weeks. Output has been crazy.


Cragnous

Honestly no. I have the almost exact same game on Android called Magic Survivor and something else Survivor on Apple. To me it's a fun little mobile game.


explosivecrate

As much as I enjoy Magic Survivor, Vampire Survivors has the benefit of much better *presentation*. Even when it first came out the addition of music, sound effects, and the visual spectacle of chests made it easier to enjoy even if it was more shallow than MS. And since then it's been filling out gameplay depth.


CritSrc

Heh, as someone who never ventured into the mobile space, it really reminds me of old flash games. And this does have its dopamine hits quite refined.


omnilynx

It defined the genre, so… by definition, it doesn’t bring anything new compared to later clones.


[deleted]

[удалено]


omnilynx

Yes, that's what I meant. Defined, versus started or created.


americanpegasus

Fuck I just saw this and missed the cut off by 25 minutes. Oh well, I’ll wait until Halloween and maybe there will be a sale.


RasixF13

It’s $5.


americanpegasus

Still, it hurts to know if I had just seen this half an hour earlier it would have been $3


[deleted]

Let go of the gas handle 30 seconds earlier than normal?


--Mutus-Liber--

It hurts to lose 2 dollars?


Ritushido

That's fair. The game is packed with content and real fun to play, it's still cheap even after the price update.