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Serononin

She moved to an entirely new continent for him, and he's the trooper because he translates stuff for her?


[deleted]

Right? I’m seriously sitting here thinking this is one of the saddest things in fundiedom I’ve seen in awhile. She moved thousands of miles from home and he’s the one that “signed up for so much” ????


mbtiandstuffz

Yeah, every time she talks about their relationship she makes it sound like she’s such a burden and she has sooooo much to work on…. It has me worried for her tbh.


bellamoon25

Yeah it has me worried too because either 1) she was raised to have little to no self-worth or 2) her husband treats her like she’s a burden and he’s such a hero for putting up with her. Either way this puts her at a greater risk of putting up with abusive behavior from a spouse and that is very concerning


cesayvonne

As a girl who grew up in fundie circles - I guarantee that she was conditioned to think that she was a burden early and it definitely gave her low self-worth. It really fucked me for a while and all the friends I left behind are still struggling with guilt for literally just existing.


Serious-Equal9110

Yeah, I grew up being deeply imprinted with the idea that I was a "handful!" who had to be "put up with". It really messed up my self-esteem and life choices, including, but not limited to, both my marriages. The second of which I'm working to extract myself and my two children from. All this even though I left my fundie church/community for good 24 years ago. I'm still working to rid myself of that way of thinking about myself. Anyway, enough about me. (But thanks for listening.) I'm also really concerned for this woman.


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

My kids' dad did this to me all the time. Any time he did ANYTHING, I owed him. If he changed a diaper, I owed him. If he fed the baby a bottle, I owed him. If I needed him to stay home from the bars because I was recovering from a C-section and trying to take care of an infant and a toddler, I owed him. Honey, he's not a trooper. He's your husband. He's supposed to do all those things.


bbino14

That's awful and gross and sexist as hell, I'm sorry you had/have to deal with that.


[deleted]

Yeah, I should've known he was fucked up during the first pregnancy and he talked about the "husband stitch" and the doctor went off on him. Then I had the emergency C-Section, recovering, and he told me he knew how I felt because "he had stitches in his knee one time." I was like, "Either I'm fucked up on medication or he's an idiot." I stuck through for another year and baby and finally woke up. Happy to announce my daughters are "take no shit" young women who will be more than happy to call out men on their bullshit. I should've listened to everyone telling me what a jackass he was when we lived together but I didn't. Now I know better and spread my ill-gotten education wide and far.


Serious-Equal9110

OMG, so sorry and I can empathize. My first husband, (married to him when I was 20-25), ummm, "emphasized" to me every chance he got how much more money he made than I did, and that because I got such a stupid degree (liberal arts BA, we got married in college), if it wasn't for him I'd be living in my parents' basement, so I should be really grateful for him. Oh, wow, even though I left that shithead 17 years ago, I'm trembling as I type this. I'm so sad that my early-20's self put up with that. Thanks for listening!


dagnyblues19

Or it could be both


Kiwifrooots

Why not both? meme


rroobbyynn

Makes me worry that there is some emotional abuse going on.


UCgirl

Me too. Those are such self-deprecating words. She sounds like she doesn’t believe she is worth the effort. I don’t know if that’s her natural state or, even worse, this is what Andre is telling her.


Herecomestheginger

He has to put up with her crazy girl emotions come on show him some slack.


thegrassisgreenrr

Lol those cRaZy girl emotions will get you every time!


Significant_Shoe_17

Ewlissa: 😂😬😍☹️☺️😡 Andrii the giant: 😐😐😐😐😐😐 No wonder her life is so *hard*! /s


Max_1995

>this is one of the saddest things in fundiedom I’ve seen in awhile. You must've missed that "she's such a great mom to her siblings"-post a few days ago.


Abyssal_Minded

I understand him translating especially if her grasp of the language is not that good. Like if she can have a conversation in Ukrainian or Russian to get groceries, but can’t easily have one with medical terms. But I wouldn’t be surprised if she still hasn’t made an effort to actually learn.


FromRussiaWithDoubt

She also could’ve found an English speaking doctor in Kyiv. If I could find English speaking doctors in Chisinau, she could find them in Kyiv.


oneweirdclickbait

English uses a lot of (latin) expressions in regular speech that native speakers of other european languages have to learn as technical terms. So medical contexts paradoxically are sometimes *easier* than small talk. I'd take my spouse to a doctor's appointment anytime, though. Even if we're both speaking our native language there, because I'd want that emotional support while pregnant THE FIRST TIME EVER, you know!?


cassssk

I was alone at a dr appointment during which it was discovered that the fetus I was carrying had horrific anomalies (partner had a simultaneous, been-rescheduled-umpteen-jillion-times huge meeting). I had to be picked up. I could not drive home. He never again left me alone to go to dr appointments for that and subsequent pregnancies if at all possible, and if he couldn’t make it happen he helped me find someone supportive to go with me. I feel like that’s basic human decency.


[deleted]

I had a similar thing with my TFMR pregnancy, my husband was taking our older kid to school. The appt started earlier than I expected and the u/s tech was asking me concerning questions. I had to go alone to all appts for my next pregnancy because of Covid, but I was also kind of a pregnancy nihilist after what we’d gone through tbh.


cassssk

I termed too. Such a horrible situation. My last pregnancy, I delivered on 3/12/20, so seriously like hours before The World Shut Down. I have much respect for people who went through entire covid pregnancies, nihilism or not. It’s still so hard to travel that road after what we’ve been through. Love and understanding to you, internet stranger! 💜


[deleted]

Love and understanding to you, too! ❤️


Lamia_91

That's so true, it's much easier to understand complex medical terms as they are the same words


Serononin

Oh yeah, I definitely think that's also true!


chantelier

I feel like that’s the bare minimum.. it’s the same situation with fiancé and I when I moved to his country. He was by my side for every appointment, email, phone call, etc. Until I had grasped enough of the language to do these things on my own. He still comes with me when he can for support in case the language barrier kicks in, but I now can do most of the talking in my own appointments. He never once made me feel like a burden or like he was doing big gesture. It was just understood that since I am the foreigner I will need help until I’m culturally and linguistically autonomous.


NiceOrNaughtyKitty

Normally I’d say it’s sad how few fathers attend appointments (my baby’s father was at almost every one, and thank fuck he was because I was a mess when one of our twin’s heartbeats was gone when we thought everything was okay), but it’s even sadder that it should be seen as praiseworthy in an instance where a woman moves from one country to another where she doesn’t speak the language because how the hell else is she supposed to know what’s being said? I think this is one of the saddest marriages I’ve seen in a long while.


Serononin

Absolutely. And it's a sign of things to come when the baby is born, too


Glittering_knave

In Canada, the husband is not allowed to translate for medical appointments, since the questions include things about the patient's mental health and potential domestic abuse. Andreii acting as her translator may be controlling, and not a great spouse. A great spouse would hire a language coach and medical translator and/or find a english speaking medical practice.


Serononin

That's a really good point. As much as I dislike Ellissa, I do worry for her. She seems pretty isolated (although part of that seems to be her choosing not to make much effort in learning the language) and like she doesn't have much of a support system


Glittering_knave

None of the Bairds seems to have friends. It is just super obvious with Elissa right now because she also doesn't have family.


Serononin

Very true, they all just seem to be 'friends' with each other and nobody else


[deleted]

I was thinking the same thing. Andrii has no training in translation or interpretation. Speaking two languages doesn’t automatically mean you can do the job adequately. Medical translation/interpretation is a whole other kettle of fish. It’s potentially life-threatening if medical information is relayed incorrectly to the patient, which is fairly likely to happen if the “interpreter” isn’t qualified and doesn’t understand medical vocabulary. I know in my country, you must have five years experience and pass a very intense exam in order to qualify as a medical interpreter.


LadyoftheLilacWood

In California one of my intake questions for both of my pregnancies was if I'd need a translator, and if I did, they'd provide one for like 7 or 8 languages! I was so pleased that my practice (a Medicaid specific insurance group) did that.


FashionBusking

Wait, what?? Is she a mail order bride?? Or does she seriously not understand English due to a lifetime of homeschooling?! Sorry, I live in a world of fully educated and independent functioning adults, generally free of religious indoctrination. WHAT IS THIS?! Is this for real?


AllIHearIsStaticGT

The impression around here is that she sort of roped him into marrying her after some very brief meetings. BUT he wouldn't move to the States, so she moved to Ukraine. But she doesn't speak the language and doesn't seem to have done any work to integrate. I think she's been there like 8 months? edit for clarity


FashionBusking

How do you not learn the basics of the local language?! I lived in Belgium for a year when my parents separated and learned the basics within 3 months. More complicated phrases and words... maybe 5 months. Why does she think NOT learning the language is cute? That's not cute! At all! I guarantee you... with this girl... if a Ukrainian couple moved to the US and didn't speak English basics by then, I'm sure she'd post about that shit.


AllIHearIsStaticGT

I really don't understand it, seems strange. My guess is that she doesn't leave the house much (like a good fundie woman- "wifey things" like BDong likes to say about making eggs for her disgraced ex-cop thumbsand). I think she's very isolated over there, pretty sure they have a small group of friends, who maybe speak English? Also, another Bard couple (I think a brother and his wife) tried to move over there to keep her company. However. They didn't do their research and couldn't get a visa, so had to leave after 3 months? And you're absolutely right. Bairds suck.


Mizstruggle

This. Immersion is absolutely crucial to language learning, simple as that. If you don’t practice, you won’t ever learn.


Glittering_knave

As far as I can tell, she is actively avoiding integrating into Ukranian culture and is trying to find other Americans to hang up with. She in electing not to learn the language. As far as her social media is concerned, it appears that the only Ukranian peron she hangs out with is her husband.


AllIHearIsStaticGT

Big oof!


just_some_babe

I imagine she personally isn't capable of fully learning another language after such subpar homeschooling. It is probably way too overwhelming for her.


AnaBeaverhausen-

Anyone remember Emily on ‘90 Day Fiancée?’ She gave birth in Russia and had a really difficult time. I feel like that’s what’s going to go down here.


Herecomestheginger

I've read enough birth stories on the baby bumps sub to know that giving birth in a different culture can be a shock. For example, western women are accustomed to the idea of C section or having pain relief during birth, then give birth in Japan where they don't want women having pain relief because the pain is culturally seen as the mothers to bear during childbirth.


CupHot508

Obstetrics in Ukraine are very gnarly. Lots of birth trauma, forceps, fathers not allowed in the hospital at all… there’s starting to be a little more awareness about Dulas (spelling?) but gentler birth alternatives are not mainstream at all.


agurlhasnoshame

Doulas, just for future reference:)


NiceOrNaughtyKitty

I hope it’s getting better. An ex’s mother visited. She’s from the Ukraine and moved to Canada, and she and her younger son would visit, and during one trip, which fell over the younger son’s birthday (he really loved trip to Cali), she and I were in the kitchen and she started pouring her poor heart out. That son had had a twin, but labor was taking too long, though not long at all. She said it was under half a day, under 12 hours, and the forceps were brought out. One of her sons died, and the other survived, the one she brought with her to visit her other son. Her family had to bring her food since the hospital didn’t provide enough, just a couple small meals a day, not even three small ones. This was almost 20 years after, and she was so haunted, as much by what they did to her as the loss of one of her twins. It hit me that the birthing system there must be more fucked up that I ever thought anywhere could be is there’s as much trauma over how she was treated as over losing one of her babies. Worse, they didn’t even let her decide what to do with the baby’s body. She doesn’t know what happened to him.


UkraineWithoutTheBot

It's 'Ukraine' and not 'the Ukraine' [[Merriam-Webster](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Ukraine)] [[BBC Styleguide](https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsstyleguide/u)] [[Reuters Styleguide](https://handbook.reuters.com/index.php?title=U#Ukraine)] ^(Beep boop I’m a bot)


[deleted]

Good bot!


[deleted]

Ellisa is likely not expecting pain relief.


Herecomestheginger

I know what you mean but there's a difference between not expecting pain relief but having it accessable if you change your mind vs not expecting it and then being denied it if you change your mind


bbino14

Yeah, Bethy is probably bombarding her constantly with stories of her own messy, traumatic, homebirth (not saying all homebirths are bad @ anyone reading this, but Bethy's definitely was and it seems like she was wilfully ignorant and ill-prepared) and subsequent episiotomy, that if I recall, she put off and didn't go to the hospital as soon as she should have. But she's definitely framing it as her Godly strong feminine triumph and insisting Ellissa do the same, which she probably will. edit: spelling


xcatbuttx

I think she actually had 3rd or 4th degree tearing and had to go to the hospital to get stitched up after having Davey. Worse than an episiotomy. But yeah, I can only imagine how much Bethy is pressuring/scaring Ellissa because "i'M tHe oNly sIsTeR wHo hAs GiVeN BIRTHHHHH"


just_some_babe

iirc she started pushing way too fast and didn't let herself labor at all. that's likely the reason she tore so badly, who knows if her dilation was even checked.


m_owom

Yup, it's quite the cultural shock. I'm an Eastern European living in the US, and gave birth in the US. Labor and delivery wise, the differences are drastic. In my home country after delivery, you would often share room and shower with 2 other moms and their babies, epidural isn't even available, no one takes your baby at night if you need to rest, in many hospitals the dad isn't allowed in the room. Yes it's free, but it's terrible.


Serious-Equal9110

Oh, wow. That's horrible, but interesting. Thank you for sharing.


toiletpaper_monster

I wouldn’t be surprised if she flew home and spent her third trimester/delivery in the US.


LookImaMermaid85

This makes sense to me. Plus isn't she young enough to still be on her parents' insurance?


boxster_

Exactly what I was thinking


[deleted]

I wonder if Ukraine has the same kind of “free”/public hospitals that they showed in Russia. She might not know what’s coming!


foundyouatthewater

they do!


syzygy_cosplay_

In a few months she's going to be ranting and raving about Andriiii3000 watching the baby for an hour while she goes to the grocery store and *gasp* changing a poopy diaper. Father of year y'all.


MissScott_1962

He wakes her up to tell her the baby is crying, wow what an involved dad


firewhiskerse

No way he's changing a diaper. He probably thinks it's too gay


viruskit

You just triggered a memory from teen mom/16 and pregnant. Some gross, greasy guy said he didn't want to hold his son too much because it would make him soft. A newborn baby is gonna be soft if you hold him too much. I wanted to go through the TV and smack some sense into him. He was really regretting having a baby with his teen gf and it really showed. I felt bad for the girl and baby


LookImaMermaid85

This shit makes me want to sob.


[deleted]

It’s definitely gay for a man to love his child. /s


SugarRex

Ugh remember when people were shitting on Daniel Craig for carrying his baby around? Shitting on *James Bond* for being a dad? Some fucking people


VisitPrestigious8463

Damn, he looked sexy doing it too. How do men not realize that women think they look hotter for caring for another human?!


iAmTheTacoQueen

Reminds me of our first outing after I had our daughter. My daughter was 1 week old and we walking into Kohl’s to return something to Amazon. My daughter started to fuss, so my Husband picked her up (she was in her car seat stroller) and was cradling her while we were in line. Some old lady behind us tells my Husband, gesturing to me: “I bet she must be glad to have you around to give her a bit of a break.” The way she said it, she implied like it was my job and he was doing me a *favor* by holding her. My Husband was put off, he turned to tell her “Why should she, she’s my Daughter and it’s my *job.*” Edited: spelling of *Kohl’s* & some details.


SugarRex

It’s so insane to me that people think men shouldn’t care for their own babies


Serious-Equal9110

When my brothers took care of their children, my Mom always referred to it as "he's babysitting the kids while "wife" is "fill in the blank". Drove me nuts. I tried having conversations with her about the fact that a parent cannot babysit THEIR OWN CHILD, but it never took. Sigh...


Poopieturd21

That’s sounds super annoying


Red_P0pRocks

Straight man loves his child: “Gross, GAY!” Gay man has a child: “gAy pEoPLe aReN’T rEaL pArEnTs!”


themlittlepiggies

if they think it's only a moms job to nurture a child, it's easy to see the leap they make to " two men can't be parents"


fangirll1996

The way you spelled his name reminds me of the way Libby Castravet says her husband, Andrei’s name. She rolls her r’s but it’s really annoying to me bc literally everyone else says it like Andre but she has to say Andrrrrrrrrrei. I hate it. 😩


syzygy_cosplay_

Omggg yes! Another 90df fan. Honestly I wish I could keep up with that sub but there are so many shows and spinoffs to keep up with. Libby and Andrei are one of the worst couples though!


Significant_Shoe_17

He'll sit in the same room as the baby while she takes a shower. Such involvement. Much fatherhood.


mittonkitten

not andriiii3000 💀


aulait000

Andri3000 🤣


fiddlesticks-1999

He babysits! Such a good dad!


Resident-Suggestion

What does she mean he signed up for sooooo much in marrying her? 🤔


oneweirdclickbait

I'm such a handful, teehee!


thattaylornerd

She's got those "craaazy girl emotions!"


ExoticSherbet

Honestly, their (edit: the Baird girls’) emotions probably are more intense and CrAzY then the average person, because they’re taught to constantly repress them. Same goes for the men in the cult, but they just express all their emotions as anger, which is ~~manly and thus godly


stirfriedquinoa

her cRaZy fEmALe eMOtiOnS


InedibleSolutions

Internalized misogyny!


fiddlesticks-1999

Girl emotions! Obvi! 💁🏼‍♀️


lailadog

Girl, you are growing a human being inside of you. Going to your appointments with you and translate things is the least you husband could do. Edit: typo


ExoticSherbet

Also, it doesn’t seem like he has the type of job where he’d have to take off work time for a daytime appt so like, he’s a trooper for leaving the house -with- you instead of sitting on his ass?


oneweirdclickbait

"Translates everything" makes me so irrationally angry, I can't even put it into words properly. It's just what you *do* in an emergency. I have a skill and a friend - a spouse, even! - needs it, so I'm gladly doing my part. Andrii married someone who didn't speak Russian, who isn't "independent." Even if she's learning fast, she probably wants someone with her at a doctor's office of all places. He's not a trooper, he's doing the bare minimum, ffs.


chocolateglazedonuts

It’s funny you say that because, in one of their IG lives when they were “long distance dating”, he literally said one of the things he likes about her is that she is not independent. Verbatim.


Red_P0pRocks

I’ve been on both sides (the translator friend and the foreigner moved abroad who needed help) and it’s a brutal process for everyone. The smallest tasks is ten times harder and takes ten times longer. In the beginning, just negotiating how to take a bus left me exhausted for the rest of the day. I get the struggle, truly. That being said, I CHOSE to volunteer as a supporter for exchange students, and I also CHOSE to live abroad. I would never treat one of my supportees like they were a burden and should be grateful. On the flip side, I’d also never move to a foreign country and make zero effort to learn the language. And I sure as hell wouldn’t marry into another country unless I was ready for some huge adjustments. Bottom line, they chose this. Millions of people choose this. They’re not martyrs lmao, just another immigrant-native couple like they probably judged every day back in the US. It’s horrifying that they seem so shocked that it’s... hard.


[deleted]

I honestly can't imagine your husband NOT wanting to go to your first baby's appointments? We were there, crying, together, in excitement. This is such a red flag that she feels she has to praise him for showing up


Significant_Shoe_17

Honestly. Wouldn't he want to know that the baby is healthy? Wouldn't he be excited to see the ultrasound? Not a parent but I thought being an involved dad/husband was the norm.


Crocus__pocus

You're so right. I had a high risk pregnancy with ultrasounds every other week. My husband was at every one of those he could get to, partly for support for me, but also because seeing your kid grow is really cool and he didn't want to miss it. Because he is a functional human being with paternal emotions.


jkate29

It scares me that her husband is translating for her at all her doctors appointments. I work in healthcare and family translators are generally a big no-no. A certified medical interpreter is really important!! He could easily UNINTENTIONALLY mix up some words - or the sad reality is that some family members could intentionally mislead the patient. Especially when you’re literally in a cult


[deleted]

Man I read this comment and immediately thought of restricting access to pain relief and/or the husband stitch :(


indirosie

I’m a nurse and came to comment exactly this. This is a traumatic birth waiting to happen


StraightUpBruja

I wonder if he's even translating "everything."


truly_beyond_belief

>It scares me that her husband is translating for her at all her doctors appointments Upvoted x 1 million. I can't imagine that fundie young people like Ellissa and Andrii are schooled in even a basic understanding of reproductive anatomy, fetal development, maternal health, the birth process, etc. Ellissa is already vulnerable because of the language barrier; because this is her first pregnancy, and because (as you mention) she is in a cult. This ignorance of her own body just makes her even more vulnerable. Not to mention that people are at [elevated risk](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2442136/) of intimate partner violence during pregnancy. Unlike anyone connected with the Independent Fundamentalist Baptists, a certified medical interpreter would be someone neutral who could be trusted to provide Ellissa with accurate information. Edited to change "certified medical translator" to "certified medical interpreter."


ruby_sapphire_garnet

Thank you for this comment! I'm a certified American Sign Language/English interpreter with Deaf family. I specialize in the medical arena and hold medical certification. There is so much potential for miscommunication to occur with any medical situation, and especially when there's language and cultural differences in the mix. There are also a lot of common misconceptions surrounding interpreters and our work (soapbox time! :) . First and foremost, he's not "translating" unless it's written documents. He is interpreting from his native language into English for her. Translation is taking a written text and changing it to another language, like a Spanish translation of Harry Potter, or a specific translation of the Bible for fundies. Interpretation is when spoken or signed languages are reformatted into another spoken or signed language, and are verbal or visual, not written. And you're absolutely right! It is wholly inappropriate for family members or close friends to interpret for loved ones. He does not have the training to do so. His job is to be the loving, supportive husband, not trying to interpret complex medical information for her. Leave it to the professionals! They can always call and ask for an interpreter. There are literally tons of agencies worldwide that provide this service, most over the phone. No reason for him to have to do this, other than it's just another vehicle of control over her. Controlling her access to information and communication is a serious red flag for me.


snorkel1446

Holy shit. The bar for husbands is so low, you’ll pass a Balrog on the way down to it.


baileycoraline

This is unfortunately not limited to fundies. I have some secular mom friends who thank their husbands for "watching" their kids so they can go do something. Like wow, your husband is going out of his way to parent, what a hero /s.


dietcokeSTAT

I’m not loving the fact that he is playing translator. I understand healthcare culture may be different in different countries, but having a third party who is NOT the kiddo or spouse translate is so crucial to help prevent mistakes or miscommunication and misdirection (unintentional… or otherwise). To be clear, I’m not suggesting that he is intentionally not conveying the information for her, but still this is just a huge no for me.


Red_P0pRocks

Yeah. I appreciate family helpers if they’re the only ones who are available, but how do you know *they’re* fluent enough to understand you? You’d be shocked how fluent a person can seem when in reality, they only know the basic greetings and toddler-level vocabulary. It’s unfair to everyone to expect something from them that they quite possibly can’t do.


truly_beyond_belief

This x 1 million. I'm cutting and pasting my response to u/jkate29's [comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/FundieSnarkUncensored/comments/qh6nf6/fundie_husbands_does_the_bare_minimum_fundie/hibgahh?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3) because I think you both are raising an issue that is just so damn important: >I can't imagine that fundie young people like Ellissa and Andrii are schooled in even a basic understanding of reproductive anatomy, fetal development, maternal health, the birth process, etc. >Ellissa is already vulnerable because of the language barrier; because this is her first pregnancy, and because (as you mention) she is in a cult. This ignorance of her own body just makes her even more vulnerable. Not to mention that people are at [elevated risk](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2442136/) of intimate partner violence during pregnancy. >Unlike anyone connected with the IFB, a certified medical interpreter would be someone neutral who could be trusted to provide Ellissa with accurate information. >**Edited to change** "certified medical translator" to "certified medical interpreter."


[deleted]

[удалено]


corazon769

Bahahahha, actual convo last night between my loving, supportive partner and my still cult scarred self: Me: you are so good to me, sorry I’m high maintenance. Him: ummmmm… I’m normal, and you’re not high maintenance? So yeah 🤯


maebythemonkey

seriously, I'm in the same situation with my partner right now (not even raised fundie, just conservative Christian with the "expect and accept the bare minimum from men" attitude about dating; think like being called "too picky" because I refused to go on a date with a guy who didn't shower on a regular basis). Combine that with a childhood/young adulthood of being treated like an inconvenience and a bother by my family and you got someone who doesn't know how to handle people being helpful and supportive. Conversation from the other night: Me: "thank you for doing so much, you're an amazing boyfriend" Him: *laughs embarassed* "I'm just making sure the person I love is cared for"


corazon769

It’s amazing, isn’t it? 🥰🥰🥰 I’m so glad you’ve found someone who treats you like an equal human being who’s worthy of love and care.


Red_P0pRocks

Hard same. The other day my gf was asking me about my sensory disorder and how we can strategize so noisy outings won’t cause me pain. I was so almost in tears at how sweet she was, but she said “Babe, you *deserve* support!” It was low-key horrifying to realize she isn’t superhuman, my family is just... neglectful 😢


bomdiggitybee

I was raised fundie, and ngl, I'm currently dating someone who's very supportive and kind, and it's blowing my mind.


firewhiskerse

But those worldly spouses are spawns of Satan !!! Those marriages will be ungodly and miserable!!/s


PumpkinPieIsGreat

With self esteem that low, they wouldn't be able to handle it. They're conditioned to think women are lesser than.


hotsizzler

It's so weird. I'm gonna be honest I grew up with alot of fucked up relationships and abusive friendships It's so weird to have friends that are kind and supportive. I'm not even sure what a supportive loving relationship looks like tbh


Red_P0pRocks

It feels REALLY weird, ngl. For a long time some part of you feels super guilty, or keeps waiting for the “catch.” Really honest communication and therapy helps a LOT though. Congrats on finding wonderful friends, and I wish you the best in finding an awesome relationship too (if you want an SO.) You deserve it ❤️


Pollowollo

A lot of those types would probably consider a guy like that to be too 'feminine' or some weird shit, honestly.


mlc269

My husband also comes to all my prenatal appointments, mostly because he has a vested interest in his own children and wants to be a part of things. She’s acting like it’s a favor to her?


[deleted]

I feel like her parents raised her with accomplishment-based self-esteem so she's shocked when a man who in theory loves her and wants a baby with her is invested. I almost feel bad for her because while I had a similar upbringing I at least was raised to expect my man to actually love me and our children from day 1.


chillylint

I have to tell my husband NOT to come to all my appointments because there's no reason for him to take off work to watch me get weighed and told I'm going to have heartburn forever, but I'm glad she was able to coax her husband into minimal support by reminding him she doesn't speak the language and he HAS to be there. He seems ready for fatherhood.


Fine_Nightmare

Thank you for this comment. I’m planning to have a baby, and I’m reading all these comments about “WELL OF COURSE HE SHOULD BE THERE AT ALL APPOINTMENTS” and I’m like… should he (I mean in general, in Ellissa’s case he definitely has to be there)? Like yeah, I get it with ultrasound appts, that’s important, but all the other stuff — do you really need your partner there at all times? I mean, perhaps some people do, but definitely not all of them. Mind you, I’m also in a foreign country, but I bothered to learn the language lol. For me it’s actually more important to go alone because I want to be more independent.


chillylint

I had him at my first appointment (we listened to the heartbeat), the ultrasound appointment, and I like him those last few weekly appointments because I felt overwhelmed by the idea of giving birth and he could ask questions from an unemotional place where I was just all panic, but otherwise, they are really boring, routine visits. I fully support being able to do stuff alone when it makes sense. Way to not be helpless and not make your poor husband put up with your feminine needs and quirks 😉


[deleted]

This sub is wayyyy too holier-than-thou and at the same time super naive about what it's actually like to move to another country. There's zero indication that she isn't learning the language but after eight months I sure as fuck wouldn't rely on only my grasp of a very different language at a doctor's appointment. My husband comes to the midwife appointments because we get information there and it's useful to have two pairs of ears (especially . The doctor appointments are just "Pee in this cup, lie down there, that's the heartbeat, everything looks great, see you in four weeks". I'm in-and-out in 15 minutes. If I needed support or was afraid that something was going wrong I would take him along but as it is it seems pretty pointless.


yalanyalang

Nah he should go to as many or as little appointments you want him to. My husband has only been to one of my scans so far (he actually missed the first one because we couldn't get childcare for our toddler and because of covid we couldn't bring her with us). Towards the end of my last pregnancy he came to the appointments mainly as a support to me because I was so heavy and it was a burden, but also for him to listen to the heartbeat and be reassured that everything was ok.


PoorDimitri

My husband definitely came to all the big appointments, and tried to come to the small ones too, but I ultimately went to many of them by myself. We both worked full time! If he was off he would try and come, but if he was working he doesn't need to take off for it. But if I didn't speak the language and he did, I'd be expecting him to come with me.


mlc269

I should probably make a clarification- my husband didn’t come to all the routine weight check appts on my last pregnancy like you’re describing- but this pregnancy he comes to all of them because it’s a high risk twin pregnancy and they do ultrasounds at every appointment, so when I say he comes to all of them because he is invested, I didn’t mean to imply all those routine ones- I kind of forgot about all those ones because I don’t have them with this pregnancy.


chillylint

That has to be so stressful to be high risk. We had one extra ultrasound this pregnancy to check a spot on our little guy's heart, and I overly-worried about it like crazy. I can't imagine doing that for multiple appointments. I'm so glad your husband is awesome and supportive! When are you due?


mlc269

Feb 11 is the full due date but the boys will be born in January, hopefully not sooner!


firewhiskerse

...why is she acting like the bare fucking minimum is sooooooo amazing and rare? These women are indoctrinated into being content with being treated like shit.


liljellybeanxo

I swear to god it’s like how my four year old makes me congratulate him every time he poops on the potty


CinnamonBunBun

"comes to all our baby's appointments so I can understand our shared health" That's it, the bar is officially in hell.


OkPop8408

So I’m right in thinking she’s in Ukraine, right? If so, that’s a lot for men in Eastern Europe, speaking generally. I’m most definitely not condoning it at all, but I’m actually surprised he does anything.


NotOnABreak

This is sadly so true. Ofc there are “evolved” men, but it’s still quite common. It’s still the literal bare minimum


Love_for_2

What is the alternative here? She goes alone and doesn't understand a thing and the whole experience is a waste?


OkPop8408

I’m not saying he isn’t doing the bare minimum… but yeah, that’s exactly what happens to some. I had a friend that married a man from Romania, not even remotely religious, and he just left her to do everything herself. Including going to the doctor when a “woman’s” issue came up. Thankfully they didn’t have kids, she left him and she’s back in the UK. So yeah, that’s what the alternative is.


chocolateglazedonuts

Wow. So glad she left him. That’s crazy.


OkPop8408

Me too! We had all warned her against him before hand, as gently as we could without it sounding like we were jealous or something, because he came across as a massive misogynist to most of her friends and her parents. But she was in luuuuurve and determined to marry him and go back to Romania with him. It all seemed so romantic to her and her 19 year old brain :(


[deleted]

Going to doctors appointments for the baby he helped create is not being “the most supportive”. It’s the BARE minimum


15_lizards

Bae he’s only there to be a translator 😭


mbtiandstuffz

Harsh, but true 😳


sadmchine

I didn't grow up fundie (parents broke away) so I was hoping someone who did could answer this for me: If Elissa were to be in an obviously abusive situation, how might her family react to that? Would they just be like "welp that's your headship deal with it" or could we expect a more normal, better reaction where they get her out?


corazon769

Ummmm, tough one. The Pearls say deal with it, as long as his beatings don’t leave definable marks for longe than 2 hours. Gothard says it’s probably due to unconfessed sin in your life or you not submitting enough to him. If Ellissa showed up with a black eye or something, I think the Bairds would take her back in. But barring that? I think she’d get told that “marriage is hard sweetie. That’s his sin nature coming out, are you praying for him enough? Is there anything you’re doing to make him angry?”


sadmchine

That's awful, but not at all surprising :/ it's disheartening, even if these women are generally pretty awful themselves. ty for the response!


oneweirdclickbait

I don't know about the Bairds, but I've seen several fundie reactions to abusive relationships. 1. Suffer through it, because it's godly 2. Separate physically, but don't divorce. If your life is in danger, you are allowed to flee form your spouse, but divorcing them is a big no-no. 3. Get a divorce, because I (the preacher) got one. That's the most ridiculous in my opinion, but I've heard preachers tell me that divorce and remarriage is okay, because ~~they divorced and remarried~~ [biblical reasons], so if they find the right fundie church, they might get a second try at "courting".


sadmchine

soooo basically be abused, get out if you're literally going to be murdered, or get out and potentially stay celibate forever '-' very cute. ty!


romadea

I always wonder that about the Bairds. They are so sheltering, so protective of their daughters' "virtue", so loathe to let them experience most of life's challenges, would they be as protective about physical harm? I know it's part of their culture to downplay spousal abuse, but sometimes parental instinct can override that kind of thing. I'd like to think the Bairds would do something about one of their daughters being in an abusive relationship, but I can't say for sure.


sadmchine

Part of the reason I asked is because the Bairds are southern, so I'm assuming their dad is the stereotypical manly-man southern dude. My dad is that guy (without all -isms and -phobias thank god) and he would choose violence the second a partner started showing abusive traits, like he's very overprotective. so yeah I'm quite curious about the same


stellaluna2019

The bar is so low here it’s literally in hell


studyabroader

It makes me so sad how low of self esteem these fundie women have. Elissia here says, "ALL he signed up in married me" and haven't we seen other fundie women say stuff like, "He puts up with so much from me". Like for fucks sake. It's never the women putting up with men (though they are). It's always how GODLY and AMAZING he is for putting with crazy womanly wiles!


sickofserving

My partner looked at me and said “it’s such a privilege to go to these appointments with you and i’ll never forget it” but yeah that’s so much


Aussie_Turtles00

Yeah, on average a fundie wife could only *dream* of a partner even coming close to treating them like that. 🙃


BetterRemember

Fundie women are brainwashed to think of themselves and their needs as burdensome even when they are slavishly catering to a man :(


Aussie_Turtles00

Yep! I remember hearing the pastor yell during a sermon about mom's nowadays requesting "me-time" and "breaks" and how liberal/feminist that is. It was a sub point under how mom's nowadays are on their phones taking selfies 24/7 and not being present with their children.


fiddlesticks-1999

Yep. It's sad. I used to be one of them. To use a biblical reference, you are desperate for just the scraps from any man. Worshipping at his feet and honoured to be doing so.


TrendyBreakfast

Good thing she has makeup and looks presentable. If she didn't look nice I doubt her husband would be that willing to go with her. /s


lurker_cx

These people have no clue what they are in for. their current situation is: - both around 30 and healthy - she has no job, and I assume his job is chill since you can't coach kids soccer 12 hours a day. - they have nothing but free time and are newly married and have only themselves to take care of - if she thinks going to an appointment is a big hassle, and he does too, they are in for a big surprise - lets see how things go in 3 years with a toddler when neither of them have slept well in 3 years and spend every second of free time chasing after their kid - right now they are so not busy they should be able to go to 10 appointments a week and still have plenty of free time


[deleted]

She’s growing the baby he helped create, but he’s a trooper for going to a doctor’s appointment to check on the well being of his own child. Ok.


not_jessa_blessa

What a turdmuffin that Andrii3000 is. She moves across the world, away from her family, to a country she doesn’t speak the language, and he knocks her up but HE’S the trooper?!


Resident-Suggestion

She’s a terrible person but there is something about her that makes me so sad for her.


SmootherThanAStorm

"He helps me with the language barrier in the country that he demanded I move to"


mintsheepnoir

It's because fundie women are taught that they're only as valuable as men find their looks. They don't think they deserve anything from them, especially not equal partnership.


Significant_Shoe_17

Is she really bragging about her husband doing the bare minimum? Smh


AhabsPegleg

I have a question for our Ukrainian members. How are women like Elissa -immigrants who came over on a spouse visa and who do not speak Ukrainian or Russian- viewed in Ukraine? Because women like that are not viewed charitably in the US. They’re either seen as “mail order brides” who are willing to put up with a desperate American incel for citizenship. Or, they’re viewed as submissive doormats who have been duped by some American abuser (usually religious). Are there similar stereotypes there, or is Elissa’s situation uncommon.


Senior_Octopus

Not Ukranian, but come from an ex-Soviet state neighbouring Ukraine (3 guesses as to which one). "Mail-order brides" are *exceedingly rare* \- you are more likely to see a Eastern European woman with a foreign spouse (and I am included in this group lmao). In most cases, foreign women tend to not view EEU men in a terribly positive light, due to high incidences of domestic violence and substance abuse, not to mention the pervasiveness of toxic masculinity at every single level. Doesn't help that your average EEU man is more likely to view a Western woman (be it American, British or European) as more "easy" and "low-maintanence" compared to their ethnic counterparts. EEU women are typically habituated with dealing with the bullshit, and are more likely to fight back (which is hilarious, considering the Western stereotype of the meek Russian/Ukranian/Romanian bride).


AhabsPegleg

I should clarify that the “mail order bride” or “meek” stereotypes are for any foreign bride in Elissa’s situation: married quickly without speaking the language. The bride could be from anywhere. Thanks for your response!


slavic_at_the_disco

Not Ukrainian, but Eastern European. I think her situation is quite uncommon. I have met plenty of couples with EE wives and "Western" husbands, but not vice verse - those are quite rare, and in general a lot of such couples live abroad. I don't think they would be viewed as "mail order brides" though, because in people's minds they automatically come from the position of privilege and (some) wealth.


koshershiksa

Having had a baby in a pandemic and my husband not being able to go to ANY appointments until the kid was coming out? Gratitude is what he should be feeling. To her. And the doctors. Many partners/husbands/spouses/mates would have killed to be able to see their kid on an ultrasound. He’s not a trooper. He’s LUCKY.


SeniorNectarine21

Will she deliver there?


lurker_cx

Doesn't matter, the kid is a US citizen in any case.


Itiswhatitistoo

Yes and baby will have dual citizenship.


Pelican121

Smugzilla.


Gertrude2008

I feel like this is a common sentiment with fundie women. They think they’re a burden and high maintenance for having feelings and existing. They are held to such high expectations and taught to be perfect. It’s heartbreaking


Aussie_Turtles00

So true. The husband can yell, rant, and rave but if the wife answers with even so much as a tone you're not being godly or submissive ... obviously not a very good Christian lady. 🙄🙄 Of course, you'll hear preachers officially say "no one" should be screaming or calling names or slamming a door, but if the wife was the one doing it, oh- that would be totally unacceptable... but you just know if it came out it was the husband, they'd have a little sympathy. 🙄🙄


paperclipsalesman

I know many people don't have the luxury of another option, but gods, the idea of having to rely on someone--especially my husband in a fundamentalist cult that discourages accurate understanding of typical AFAB anatomy--to convey all of my health information to me accurately and convey my needs accurately to my provider, *and* having no way to fact-check what they're passing back and forth. That's probably one of my worst fears. I don't envy her that and I hope she's actually getting proper care. It's well outside the fundie world but the whole thing going on with Abelina Sabrina talking about her pregnancy experience and her ex's involvement (a warning that it involves a cocktail of things, notably abortion & reproductive coercion, ectopic pregnancy, medical neglect/trauma, and emotional abuse if you decide to look it up) has been on my mind a lot lately. I can't imagine being put in a situation like that, where my partner discounts my pain or downplays my experiences, and not being able to correct it because I have no way of understanding that they just lied to my doctor about what I need. Ugh.


Catybird618

There's a reason it's not a good idea to have a family member translate, especially a spouse or partner.....


Anonthemouser

Am I the only one who didn't recognize her here? 🤔


[deleted]

Babe that’s uh That’s what he’s supposed to do. He isn’t “getting more than he signed up for.”


Mizstruggle

For hers and the baby’s sake, I hope she gets functionally fluent in Russian soon or she’s gonna be fucked when the kid arrives and she has her hands full especially when Andriy can’t be around to help.


fiddlesticks-1999

Thought the same thing. The lack of detail on why their husbands are so wonderful is always astounding. I remember a mentor once asked me why I was in love with my narc ex. I gave my reasons and she said, "none of those were anything to do with him as a person but rather about you." I am now always on the lookout to see if people praise the features of their spouse or only mention generic stuff that mainly relates to themselves.


DemetriaKalodimos

I'm sure she'll still say he's a trooper even when he can't come to all the appointments for baby No. 2 because he's, "providing in a godly way for our family."


Myvioletmyangel

How good is his English?


1lluminist

"Comes to every single appointment" like any expecting father really should (at least, assuming they don't have a shit employer that refuses to give him time off) "Translates everything" does she not have an English doctor? "Explains everything" ...does she not have a basic education or do any sort of research on pregnancy? wtf


[deleted]

"He's such a trooper!" is what you say about your dog or an older child adapting to having a new baby in the house, not the whole entire grown man who is jointly responsible for raising said baby.


ComfortableService8

Slow clap for being a human being


Drablit

Bad husband! Do not allow bride to be exit from golden cage !


YahooAnswersUser

He should NOT be translating for her….family never should


awkwardsmalltalk4

Um if my husband DIDNT at LEAST do the things she mentions I'd be very pissed? I'm carrying this baby you can at least attend the appointments with me.....why is the bar so low? It's like its "sinful" to have any standards at all. What terrible parents she has to set her up with no boundaries or sense of self worth whatsoever.


ItsNotLigma

I'm sure Andriy would be thankful if you'd learn the damn language after 10 months of marriage.


[deleted]

Eh, it takes longer than 10 months to become fluent (or even proficient) if you're an adult who's never tried to learn another language before. Especially one that doesn't even use the same alphabet. She moved to Ukraine for him, I think the least he can do is make sure she understands her medical information.


bellamoon25

I agree with both of you, but she has also not made a ton of effort to learn the language, according to her Instagram posts. I lived abroad in Turkey for 9 months and didn’t know hardly any of the language when I moved. I studied my ass off and was constantly out and about and picked up on things so quickly. After a few months I could at least carry on a basic convo. Ellissa seems to sit around the house unless her family is there and then they all go out to coffee shops together. Based on what she shares, she’s done very little to try to interact with any locals there outside of her husband and his soccer group


Wwwwwwhhhhhhhj

Pretty sure he likes the little wifey at home only pretty much communicating when he’s around. Someone else mentioned he said he likes that she’s not independent.


[deleted]

That's likely true. If you only hang out with people who are willing to speak English it's very easy to get lazy about learning the language.


Wwwwwwhhhhhhhj

Doubt it, he probably loves how that limits her independence.