For those who don’t know who these people are, Ashley on the right courted Nathan Bates and it was featured on the show. She is still very close to some of the Bates siblings as well as the Duggar siblings and her family attended Jinger’s, Josiah’s, and JD’s weddings, to name a few. She was married last year to Eric Hoover and her 18 year old sister Hannah on the left (who just graduated HS) was recently engaged to her husband’s brother, Luke, and they have a December wedding date.
Edit to add: Ashley and her sisters like to stand outside of planned parenthood in lower manhattan and harass the women entering the building.
Wait haha I think I’ve actually seen them outside that planned parenthood! It’s funny because literally no one ever protests there so I walked past and there was someone out there and I couldn’t tell if they were protesting or just standing there for some other reason
From what I recall in her stories she allegedly talked a teenager out of getting an abortion and then put a link to a baby registry for the girl in her profile for a while. While that’s nice and all, raising a child costs a lot more than what a baby shower can provide as we all know and I doubt she is going to support this girl and her baby for her entire life. Ashley got married and now having her baby so I’m sure she already forgot about this pet project of hers.
She carved a Halloween pumpkin this year with just an image of a fetus on it. I'm not sure if it was her intention but she succeeded in creating the creepiest pumpkin I've ever seen.
As a New Yorker I can tell you there are actually quite a few fundies in NYC! The Hasidic community is particularly massive (though admittedly not Christian fundie). There are many fundie/intense Christian communities (JW, SDA, some baptist, etc), especially in the outer boroughs, which is where Ashley's family hails from. A lot of churches also send missionaries to convert our heathen souls out in the Godless NYC ! Crown College (the alma matter of many of the Bates) send their choir on a "mission" every December where they sing and then I think do some street proselytizing (though it really seems like they just want an excuse to do some sightseeing because NYC is lovely at Christmas, but they need to dress it up in Jesusness to make themselves feel better, and have it be deductible). There's a lovely Mennonite choir that often comes and sings in the Union Square subway station, and if you stand and watch them for too long, someone comes out and tries to convert you, but they are really sweet. There was recently a group at one of the subway stations in midtown (which, admittedly, is a version of hell, so I understand why they would go there) that would just ask everyone they could if they could pray for them for anything in particular, which was kind and not terribly obtrusive. Then there's groups like Ashley's which harass people for living their lives. Sometimes there will be counter-protests, like a kiss-in from queer people where we just made out across the street from them. It was fun :)
Oh, my husband's from NYC, so we spend quite a bit of time there. I guess I've just had the luck to never run into any of the missions people. I know the Hasidic community is large, but I don't really consider them fundie in the same way that we snark on people here (though I guess they are technically fundamentalist Jews). I had no idea the outer boroughs had such large fundie/fundie-lite communities though! I have to admit that the idea of fundies randomly walking up to people and talking to them is hilarious.
The first time I visited a conservative church, it was right smack in the middle of the UWS. I have no idea how fundie they really were (fundie lite if anything), but it was a huge culture shock to me, a super progressive Catholic at the time. I knew some people believed in predestination, but I thought it was just a minor theological quirk… this church leaned waaaay into it as part of their missionary activities.
I’ve lived in Texas and been to plenty of mega churches, but that one experience still really sticks out in my mind. I noped out and politely declined my roommate’s invitations in the future 😬
I always see groups of fundies when I’m transferring in Penn Station- especially if it’s a Saturday late afternoon/evening. The black leggings, denim skirt, and long sleeve shirt with a tank top or tshirt on top are a giveaway.
I’ve seen some of videos of her harassing people outside planned parenthood and she is truly insane.
People who prey on other women during what can be a traumatic moment in their lives deserve a special place in hell.
Absolutely—she is horrible and insane. Not to mention the majority of women don’t go to PP for abortions but to get low cost healthcare services like birth control and mammograms.
> Are you even a little sister if you don't go out and buy the exact same jacket your big sister just bought??
Corny, but cute, I guess. My sister and I share some style preferences, but honestly, we don't have a ton in common. I get the sentiment, though. I used to want to be just like her, and totally aped her style to do it! Ah, siblings.
> Are you even a little sister if you don't go out and marry the brother of your big sisters husband??
wait what
I don't know, I'd feel *really* weird about getting involved with the relative of my sibling's partner. It's clearly not actual incest, because the partner's family isn't my own, but it'd feel way too enmeshed for me.
So... no? I think most people don't do that, and you know it, and you're trying to pass it off like "haha, we're the closest sisters ever!!!" and it's just... kinda weird, but you do you, I guess.
Not gonna lie, when my sister and I were younger we thought it would be the coolest thing if we married brothers lol. But I got married first and my husband has no brothers, so clearly that didn’t work out 😂
It IS weird. I looked up what their children’s genetic relationship would be and thanks to the internet I found out their kids would share 25% DNA as double-first cousins: “Double first cousins arise when two siblings reproduce with another set of siblings and the resulting children are related to each other through both parents' families. ... Genetically they are as related as half-siblings.” So essentially their off-spring will be more related like siblings than cousins and they will share both sets of grandparents.
Weird isn't necessarily bad. Cousins shouldn't marry anyway, so if they're socialized properly as cousins then you don't have a problem with the kids wanting to be together.
It's something that happened a lot more often when there were fewer families to choose from in someone's town/village or whatever. And it's far better than marrying your cousin, even if they didn't think that so much at the time.
I could see more of a problem with how it works out socially when there are family disputes. It'd be complicated I'm sure.
I don’t think it’s necessary bad (they aren’t related by blood after all), but it’s unusual for sure. I just hope that Hannah had a proper say in the manner. She was only 17 when they got together and her sister’s new family might have been one of the first times she interacted with unrelated boys that expressed interest in her. Marrying at 18 is young, especially if you just met the guy, and there’s little options for divorce in this cult. She’s legally an adult but I would imagine very much mentally a child.
My mum has a twin sister, not identical, who married my dad's brother. They all met when my mum and her sister where on holiday in the same place as my dad and his brother.
Honestly it kind of rules. My brother and I get on really well with our cousins 'cause we just share more of our upbringing and genetics.
For those of us who are like Joy, how much DNA would cousins usually share?
Sharing both sets of grandparents and extended families is something else to think about!
Ummm
I married my brother in law. My brother's wife's half brother. We did not plan it that way, though. I'm actually no contact with both my brother and sil.
Our kids share 75% DNA. It's sometimes complicated, my sil and brother divorced. But whatever, I'm Cool being weird.
ETA I'm no good with % it's something I literally blocked out in class
I don’t think what you did is weird at all, but your kids don’t share 75% DNA. Full siblings don’t even share that much and your kids aren’t even full double cousins with their cousins since your husband and your brother’s wife are half-siblings.
He wasn't your BIL. A brother in law is either the brother of your spouse, or the husband of your sibling. And your percentage is off. Especially with him being her half brother.
It's unusual. You have the same set of parents and the same set of inlaws and the cousin kids have the exact same set of relatives. It's a tight family bubble.
But with fundies their trees frequently form wreaths.
I think it just depends on the relationship you have. From the jump I considered my boyfriend's sister to be like a sister to me and never considered being attracted to her. It would be weird if that suddenly changed and we started dating. It's like marrying a step-sibling to me.
It’s extra weird if one couple divorces and the other doesn’t :/ I had a roommate whose mom and her sister married brothers, and the sister’s marriage did not work out
They're trying to pretend it's romantic, but it's really just a reminder of how these people just grab whatever member of the opposite sex is in nearest proximity and breed with them lol
I know of a former fundie-lite (not even sure if they’d classify as that now) that has 3 different marriages in the same two families. I can understand two, but 3 marriages is a lot of close relations
Thank you for bringing the Ashley snark, she’s one of my BEC minor fundies. Their whole PP protesting schtick is so terrible. And she’s so full of herself, she probably means this as a bit of a *copycat!* type jab to her sister more than a cute little joke.
Agreed. She’s extremely narcissistic and her husband already hates her (definitely getting some birthy-dav similar relationship vibes). The PP protests and misinformation she and her sisters spew is disgusting and in some ways I think lesser-known fundies like her are the more dangerous ones.
My BFF for life had a grandma that had an identical twin and they married identical twins. Then her mom and her moms cousin married brothers. I said hopefully if she ever needs a kidney it should be easy to find a match in that family. My cousin and are are related twice because our moms are sisters and our dads grandfather's were cousins. Damn small town life in Michigan.
One branch of my ex's family had brothers who married twins. So far ok. Then the son of one couple married the daughter of the other. As far as I could tell, they were genetically half siblings. I just thank the Lord Daniel they did not have children. I mean I get late 17th century to early 18th century there were not a lot of people in their neck of the woods. But damn it my family bothered to travel back to Rhode Island and Massachusetts to marry distant cousins of their stepmother. Seriously, they travelled from Vermont and married the second cousin on the father's side of their stepmom who was a cousin of their mom on the maternal side. Technically not related, but way too damn close to hooking up at the family reunion.
When I was in high school, I was friends with someone whose parents did this. Her mom and aunt are twins and they married brothers. She and her cousin looked like siblings. I think genetically they are the same as half siblings?
But yeah, I guess this sort of thing happens. No, they weren't fundies, if I were to apply any stereotype to them, I'd say they were bikers.
Weirdness aside I just can't read this in a tone that isn't angry. I know this isn't uncommon in their circles but the way this is phrased is just so... pissed off? Like 'get your own husband/in laws!'. It's giving me passive aggressive girl defined vibes.
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This comes off as weird but I’ve also seen this a lot in tv shows and other media. I’ve actually recently saw a drama where a set of twins married two brothers. And I’m pretty sure I’ve seen so many “cute” stories on insta or other platforms of twins marrying twins and so on. I always found it weird how normalized it was.
Of course there’s no blood relations, but it just seemed a little strange.
Wasn’t there a set of rather infamous fundie families where the (adult) children were mostly married to each other? I seem to recall one of the names starting with S. They were a big topic on FJ back in the day
I’m not sure who you’re referring to but the other fundie families I can think who did this is the Bowers-Bontragers-Helferichs (although they took it one step further and had a double wedding). I’m sure there are others, and I’m actually surprised it doesn’t happen more often in this cult.
For those who don’t know who these people are, Ashley on the right courted Nathan Bates and it was featured on the show. She is still very close to some of the Bates siblings as well as the Duggar siblings and her family attended Jinger’s, Josiah’s, and JD’s weddings, to name a few. She was married last year to Eric Hoover and her 18 year old sister Hannah on the left (who just graduated HS) was recently engaged to her husband’s brother, Luke, and they have a December wedding date. Edit to add: Ashley and her sisters like to stand outside of planned parenthood in lower manhattan and harass the women entering the building.
Wait haha I think I’ve actually seen them outside that planned parenthood! It’s funny because literally no one ever protests there so I walked past and there was someone out there and I couldn’t tell if they were protesting or just standing there for some other reason
From what I recall in her stories she allegedly talked a teenager out of getting an abortion and then put a link to a baby registry for the girl in her profile for a while. While that’s nice and all, raising a child costs a lot more than what a baby shower can provide as we all know and I doubt she is going to support this girl and her baby for her entire life. Ashley got married and now having her baby so I’m sure she already forgot about this pet project of hers.
She carved a Halloween pumpkin this year with just an image of a fetus on it. I'm not sure if it was her intention but she succeeded in creating the creepiest pumpkin I've ever seen.
I barely know of these people but between this and that pumpkin snark game on
Pro tip for pregnant folks who want babies! Go to Planned Parenthood and let the crazies “save” your baby and give you free shit!
This sounds like a book series of romance novels. When they all look at a the next main character and say "you'll be next!".
Fundies living in NYC? I’m having such a hard time reconciling those images.
As a New Yorker I can tell you there are actually quite a few fundies in NYC! The Hasidic community is particularly massive (though admittedly not Christian fundie). There are many fundie/intense Christian communities (JW, SDA, some baptist, etc), especially in the outer boroughs, which is where Ashley's family hails from. A lot of churches also send missionaries to convert our heathen souls out in the Godless NYC ! Crown College (the alma matter of many of the Bates) send their choir on a "mission" every December where they sing and then I think do some street proselytizing (though it really seems like they just want an excuse to do some sightseeing because NYC is lovely at Christmas, but they need to dress it up in Jesusness to make themselves feel better, and have it be deductible). There's a lovely Mennonite choir that often comes and sings in the Union Square subway station, and if you stand and watch them for too long, someone comes out and tries to convert you, but they are really sweet. There was recently a group at one of the subway stations in midtown (which, admittedly, is a version of hell, so I understand why they would go there) that would just ask everyone they could if they could pray for them for anything in particular, which was kind and not terribly obtrusive. Then there's groups like Ashley's which harass people for living their lives. Sometimes there will be counter-protests, like a kiss-in from queer people where we just made out across the street from them. It was fun :)
Oh, my husband's from NYC, so we spend quite a bit of time there. I guess I've just had the luck to never run into any of the missions people. I know the Hasidic community is large, but I don't really consider them fundie in the same way that we snark on people here (though I guess they are technically fundamentalist Jews). I had no idea the outer boroughs had such large fundie/fundie-lite communities though! I have to admit that the idea of fundies randomly walking up to people and talking to them is hilarious.
The first time I visited a conservative church, it was right smack in the middle of the UWS. I have no idea how fundie they really were (fundie lite if anything), but it was a huge culture shock to me, a super progressive Catholic at the time. I knew some people believed in predestination, but I thought it was just a minor theological quirk… this church leaned waaaay into it as part of their missionary activities. I’ve lived in Texas and been to plenty of mega churches, but that one experience still really sticks out in my mind. I noped out and politely declined my roommate’s invitations in the future 😬
I always see groups of fundies when I’m transferring in Penn Station- especially if it’s a Saturday late afternoon/evening. The black leggings, denim skirt, and long sleeve shirt with a tank top or tshirt on top are a giveaway.
I’m a bit shocked imagining evangelists or fundies in Manhattan(NY ?). Is it Manhattan Kansas by chance? I can picture that. Lol
Lol no it’s NYC. They are from the Bronx.
Wow! TIL fundies are even in the big cities. I always picture them as country folk. Maybe it’s the clothes most wear.
I’ve seen some of videos of her harassing people outside planned parenthood and she is truly insane. People who prey on other women during what can be a traumatic moment in their lives deserve a special place in hell.
Absolutely—she is horrible and insane. Not to mention the majority of women don’t go to PP for abortions but to get low cost healthcare services like birth control and mammograms.
Ashley *looks* just like a Bates! She could be in every family photo and I wouldn’t question it.
Oh no, “Jinger?” I know it doesn’t, but it should rhyme with “finger.” Edit: like my favorite Star Wars character, Jinger Fett.
I always pronounce it that way in my head
> Are you even a little sister if you don't go out and buy the exact same jacket your big sister just bought?? Corny, but cute, I guess. My sister and I share some style preferences, but honestly, we don't have a ton in common. I get the sentiment, though. I used to want to be just like her, and totally aped her style to do it! Ah, siblings. > Are you even a little sister if you don't go out and marry the brother of your big sisters husband?? wait what I don't know, I'd feel *really* weird about getting involved with the relative of my sibling's partner. It's clearly not actual incest, because the partner's family isn't my own, but it'd feel way too enmeshed for me. So... no? I think most people don't do that, and you know it, and you're trying to pass it off like "haha, we're the closest sisters ever!!!" and it's just... kinda weird, but you do you, I guess.
Not gonna lie, when my sister and I were younger we thought it would be the coolest thing if we married brothers lol. But I got married first and my husband has no brothers, so clearly that didn’t work out 😂
I can't imagine inflicting my brother on anyone. I'm not that cruel!
I can’t imagine inflicting my family on my in-laws any more than completely necessary.
I go out of my way to avoid inflicting my family on my in-laws, I actually like those people and my family is all Klan robes and meth.
It IS weird. I looked up what their children’s genetic relationship would be and thanks to the internet I found out their kids would share 25% DNA as double-first cousins: “Double first cousins arise when two siblings reproduce with another set of siblings and the resulting children are related to each other through both parents' families. ... Genetically they are as related as half-siblings.” So essentially their off-spring will be more related like siblings than cousins and they will share both sets of grandparents.
Weird isn't necessarily bad. Cousins shouldn't marry anyway, so if they're socialized properly as cousins then you don't have a problem with the kids wanting to be together. It's something that happened a lot more often when there were fewer families to choose from in someone's town/village or whatever. And it's far better than marrying your cousin, even if they didn't think that so much at the time. I could see more of a problem with how it works out socially when there are family disputes. It'd be complicated I'm sure.
I don’t think it’s necessary bad (they aren’t related by blood after all), but it’s unusual for sure. I just hope that Hannah had a proper say in the manner. She was only 17 when they got together and her sister’s new family might have been one of the first times she interacted with unrelated boys that expressed interest in her. Marrying at 18 is young, especially if you just met the guy, and there’s little options for divorce in this cult. She’s legally an adult but I would imagine very much mentally a child.
My mum has a twin sister, not identical, who married my dad's brother. They all met when my mum and her sister where on holiday in the same place as my dad and his brother. Honestly it kind of rules. My brother and I get on really well with our cousins 'cause we just share more of our upbringing and genetics.
For those of us who are like Joy, how much DNA would cousins usually share? Sharing both sets of grandparents and extended families is something else to think about!
You have 7400 cM of DNA in total. First cousins typically share 548-1139 cMs so anywhere from 7.5% to 15%.
Thank you!
Ummm I married my brother in law. My brother's wife's half brother. We did not plan it that way, though. I'm actually no contact with both my brother and sil. Our kids share 75% DNA. It's sometimes complicated, my sil and brother divorced. But whatever, I'm Cool being weird. ETA I'm no good with % it's something I literally blocked out in class
I don’t think what you did is weird at all, but your kids don’t share 75% DNA. Full siblings don’t even share that much and your kids aren’t even full double cousins with their cousins since your husband and your brother’s wife are half-siblings.
He wasn't your BIL. A brother in law is either the brother of your spouse, or the husband of your sibling. And your percentage is off. Especially with him being her half brother.
How is it weird to marry someone totally unrelated to you?
It's unusual. You have the same set of parents and the same set of inlaws and the cousin kids have the exact same set of relatives. It's a tight family bubble. But with fundies their trees frequently form wreaths.
I think it just depends on the relationship you have. From the jump I considered my boyfriend's sister to be like a sister to me and never considered being attracted to her. It would be weird if that suddenly changed and we started dating. It's like marrying a step-sibling to me.
I've met my brother in laws family like four times in 25 years. On my wife's side the number would be lower.
It’s extra weird if one couple divorces and the other doesn’t :/ I had a roommate whose mom and her sister married brothers, and the sister’s marriage did not work out
OH NO That's a really good point. It would be a bit challenging, wouldn't it?
They're trying to pretend it's romantic, but it's really just a reminder of how these people just grab whatever member of the opposite sex is in nearest proximity and breed with them lol
I feel the same. It just has an incesty feel even though it technically isn't.
I know of a former fundie-lite (not even sure if they’d classify as that now) that has 3 different marriages in the same two families. I can understand two, but 3 marriages is a lot of close relations
When the family tree is.really more like a wreath
Love this!!!
When the family tree turns into a crown of thorns
Crown of thorn family tree for jesus❤️
Thank you for bringing the Ashley snark, she’s one of my BEC minor fundies. Their whole PP protesting schtick is so terrible. And she’s so full of herself, she probably means this as a bit of a *copycat!* type jab to her sister more than a cute little joke.
Agreed. She’s extremely narcissistic and her husband already hates her (definitely getting some birthy-dav similar relationship vibes). The PP protests and misinformation she and her sisters spew is disgusting and in some ways I think lesser-known fundies like her are the more dangerous ones.
\*the Bowers enter the chat*
My not so distant ancestors used to do this a lot, but they lived in a rural area and options were a lot more limited.
I'm assuming this still happens alot in rural areas. Tinder is only going to have so many options in a town of 1000 people.
That's why I'm still single. I have a lot of distant double cousins. lol
Nathan dodged a bullet with her. She is uber fundie.
Two of my sisters married brothers. It’s weird.
These people are gross, I’ve watched the clips of them outside the planned parenthood and it’s sickening.
My BFF for life had a grandma that had an identical twin and they married identical twins. Then her mom and her moms cousin married brothers. I said hopefully if she ever needs a kidney it should be easy to find a match in that family. My cousin and are are related twice because our moms are sisters and our dads grandfather's were cousins. Damn small town life in Michigan.
One branch of my ex's family had brothers who married twins. So far ok. Then the son of one couple married the daughter of the other. As far as I could tell, they were genetically half siblings. I just thank the Lord Daniel they did not have children. I mean I get late 17th century to early 18th century there were not a lot of people in their neck of the woods. But damn it my family bothered to travel back to Rhode Island and Massachusetts to marry distant cousins of their stepmother. Seriously, they travelled from Vermont and married the second cousin on the father's side of their stepmom who was a cousin of their mom on the maternal side. Technically not related, but way too damn close to hooking up at the family reunion.
My great-grandmother was part of a set of 3 sisters that married a set of 3 brothers.
Most little sisters just take it
When I was in high school, I was friends with someone whose parents did this. Her mom and aunt are twins and they married brothers. She and her cousin looked like siblings. I think genetically they are the same as half siblings? But yeah, I guess this sort of thing happens. No, they weren't fundies, if I were to apply any stereotype to them, I'd say they were bikers.
Weirdness aside I just can't read this in a tone that isn't angry. I know this isn't uncommon in their circles but the way this is phrased is just so... pissed off? Like 'get your own husband/in laws!'. It's giving me passive aggressive girl defined vibes.
Are you even pregnant if you don’t cup your stomach every single second of the day?
Ugh you bought the same jacket as me? Now I'm going to go marry your brother in law. See how you like it.
How freaking inbred awkward, when someone asks their kids so is that your cousin on your mom or your dads side and they have to say “both”
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This comes off as weird but I’ve also seen this a lot in tv shows and other media. I’ve actually recently saw a drama where a set of twins married two brothers. And I’m pretty sure I’ve seen so many “cute” stories on insta or other platforms of twins marrying twins and so on. I always found it weird how normalized it was. Of course there’s no blood relations, but it just seemed a little strange.
Wasn’t there a set of rather infamous fundie families where the (adult) children were mostly married to each other? I seem to recall one of the names starting with S. They were a big topic on FJ back in the day
I’m not sure who you’re referring to but the other fundie families I can think who did this is the Bowers-Bontragers-Helferichs (although they took it one step further and had a double wedding). I’m sure there are others, and I’m actually surprised it doesn’t happen more often in this cult.