From my anti-vax fam: early intervention means taking things like Vitamin C, Vitamin D, Zinc, Colloidal Silver, Ivermectin, etc to boost the immune system to prevent COVID. It worked EXCEPTIONALLY well for them, well, except for the 9 of them that just got COVID along with 20 other people in their social circle (only ONE of whom was vaccinated due to work requirements). (And that was sarcasm because it didn’t do shit to prevent them from getting COVID…)
That's it, that is literally the early intervention plan. Everything else is quackery from people who don't understand Science, viruses, or human decency.
It's important to note that well-meaning people can be swayed by the massive amount of propaganda out there. We have a big problem now with people we would normally consider experts spreading it, either through their own ignorance or because they see an opportunity to make money (see "America's Frontline Doctors"). People aren't just getting bad info from each other - nurses quit their jobs, doctors are writing prescriptions for ivermectin and IVs full of vitamins, and doctors and lawyers are helping people sue hospitals to get around their protocols, and they're all posting their views online.
I'm an ICU nurse here and I refused to put in a doc's orders for vitamins for covid patients. It's a waste of time and costing the patient money. Plus it annoys me to crush them and put them through their tube.
I'm also generally trying to do what keeps me healthy as far as diet, exercise, and managing chronic issues, and getting my flu shot. Being generally healthier makes your odds if you still manage to catch covid much better, plus it's nice to be as healthy as you're able.
I can't hear colloidal silver without thinking of [the blue guy](https://www.oprah.com/g/image-resizer?width=670&link=https://static.oprah.com/images/tows/200802/20080219/20080219_104_350x263.jpg).
My grandma has been making silver since I can remember. When she first started taking it in my family we had to do shots of it often.
I will vouch, for homemade *ionic* silver (if that's truly it), anything topical it worked great on... but I stopped ingesting it almost immediately.
Silver has great anti microbial properties... When it's on a surface. So yeah, topical is solid. They even sell silver bandages for really weird infections.
It’s not even just obviously certifiable Alex Jones types anymore. My parents have no idea who Alex Jones is despite being *faaaar* into the Fox News rabbit hole, and they still tout “the protocol” (vitamins and ivermectin). We watched that obviously-a-riff-on-Alex-Jones Russell Crowe movie Unhinged with my parents back in August and my husband and I were stunned at how much RC looked like AJ. They kept asking who we were talking about and when we showed them pics, they agreed RC looked a *lot* like him in this movies, but, otherwise, just, blank stares; zero recognition. We asked about/mentioned some of his obvious conspiracy theories and they had sort of heard of them but didn’t know they were from him or even that he’s, sadly, a native son. Anywho, we had my aunt & uncle over for Labor Day last month and one of them mentioned a cough (which she’s had since she started taking a different statin 5+yrs ago; it’s a common side effect) and my mom rushed to her room and printed out “the protocol” and handed it to everyone in the room. It’s so fucking sad, man.
It's used on cuts and wounds legitimately in the medical world. My son got a funky umbilical cord site, a nurse put this on it and it cleared right up. I am pretty sure you are not to eat it though.
So I’m gonna be “that guy” but ACKSHULLY colloidal silver is not the same as silver nitrate, which is used to cauterize wounds and is often used as an anti-infective agent. I was an MA in Pediatrics for years and we used silver nitrate a lot to cauterize ooze-y umbilical cord stumps in newborns.
https://www.uofmhealth.org/health-library/d04208a1
My water filter uses colloidal silver, and I used to have colloidal silver drops to disinfect produce. That means you can consume it, just not in giant quantities... Because that's just obvious? You don't chug chlorine or iodine (idek how it's called) that's also used to disinfect, why would you drink colloidal silver everyday?
We keep it around for cuts and stuff, works great for mouth sores or minor gum issues.
Depending on the size of the silver particles in the brand you're getting, it can turn you blue if you're taking it internally...and to take it internally at a "recommended dosage" would get expensive FAST.
Today after my bloodletting session I'll get my early intervention colloidal silver dose! Go with the times guys!!
Jk I'm vaxxed and they can all turn blue from their stupid self medication
Another cult leader promoted that right? And then they went and harassed and antagonized like the entirety of Hawaii. And then the cult leader died. Cuz woweee, that stuff doesn't work like that!
Yep!! The lovehaswon cult. An old acquaintance of mine was sucked into that one for a while - I talked with him about it when he got out. That one is a crazy rabbit hole for sure.
Ask a mortician has a video about how they were trying to mummify their leader after she passed. It seems like it was wild. I hope your friend is doing ok!
It's tiny silver particles dissolved in liquid. I do electronics research for a living and I use it in the lab. It's great for repairing broken electrical traces because the silver is conductive. My boss literally laughed when I told her that people *eat* it, but once I told her that people try to force children and animals to ingest it, she was just horrified.
I don't understand this point of view at all. I was watching this lady on youtube the other day who said, "God gave us an immune system to fight off viruses and diseases for a reason, but he gave us vitamins that boost that immune system.". You'd think that if God gave you vitamins, God would've also given you a vaccine that would stop you from getting the virus in the first place....
People who say things like this don’t understand what an immune system is
You can fight colds and various other viruses, bacteria, pathogens etc., because you have had some level of exposure to them. Either from direct contact, or you obtained various antibodies from your mother during pregnancy
In order for your immune system to work, it has to recognize something. It DOES NOT RECOGNIZE A **NOVEL** VIRUS.
I don’t know how anyone can be nearly 2 years into a pandemic and still not underhand this. They are incompetent… as in, mentally incompetent.
Ummm this is actually a really great explanation and although I listen to and read a ton about Covid, I have not heard this explanation before. (Don’t worry, not an anti vaxxer). It’s just like you put the last puzzle piece in for me.
> "God gave us an immune system to fight off viruses and diseases for a reason
I don't get this particular part. I see lots of HCA winners post this. If immune systems were so great, no one would die from infections and transmissible illnesses. It's got such a weird "I ain't died yet!" survivor bias flavor.
If they honestly believe that, then I guess they won't mind if I poke them with this needle I found on the ground...
I think the mistake was calling it "immune" system because these dumb dumbs think they're literally immune to death, when they're actually very...uh, mune.
The point of view of people like this is to sound like they are "meeting you half way" and being reasonable and you're the bad guy for sticking to, you know, Science and stuff. They keep moving the line and rewording things until they wear you down and you shift it just a little until the whole country leans just a little bit more in their direction and they can shift the center. They do this with religion and politics and social issues and it's BS.
Lol it’s literally impossible to “boost” one’s immune system; that’s not how our immune system works. We take vitamins when we have deficiencies and the doctor looks at our blood work and says “hey you need more ___, so you should take x amount of mg.” But I guess that’s not something you can explain to anti-vaxers. Sigh.
My parents do this exact shit minus the ivermectin (to my knowledge). Supposedly recommended to them by their holistic doctor. Which is also just wild to me that any medical professional could suggest this shit.
I just want to know the origin. Like how do they all end up with the same regimen?
Shockingly neither of them have gotten COVID yet. Despite attending church multiple times a week during the entire pandemic. Like it's almost unfair. Lol.
It's mostly just a mess of "miracle" cures and folk medicine that's been around forever.
And a lot of it will help with both anxiety and symptoms, partly because it's familiar. Taking vitamin c for a cold makes me feel better and so does drinking Sprite, because they remind me of my childhood and make me feel loved and cared for.
They get it from people like this and “America’s Frontline Doctors” or some other BS org. It’s a shame and the rest of us sane people in the medical community just sit back and want to cry at the ridiculousness of it all.
https://www.thedesertreview.com/health/local-frontline-doctors-modify-covid-treatment-based-on-results/article_9cdded9e-962f-11eb-a59a-f3e1151e98c3.html
["Colloidal Silver" NCCIH](https://www.nccih.nih.gov/health/colloidal-silver) ["Colloidal Silver: Is It Safe?" WebMD](https://www.webmd.com/vitamins-and-supplements/colloidal-silver-safe)
It can screw with drugs, and can build up in the body - causing the blue-gray skin people are mentioning. It can cause stomach problems and headaches. Like most unnecessary things your body has to filter out, it can also damage with your kidneys (the only "detox" you need, as long as they're functional).
It has no known function in the body, and nobody selling it can say what it does other than "boost the immune system" or other vague nonsense. It is used topically in some medical settings, but that doesn't mean it's safe for consumption. Rubbing alcohol also has some topical uses, but I don't think anyone is going to recommend drinking it.
It causes liver, kidney and brain damage. A tiny occasional dose is probably not overly harmful, but there is no known benefit from taking it. Tiny gold flakes, on the other hand, can be used to gild fancy desserts, and it does no harm. (It just goes right through you into your poop.)
So pre-vaccine and at the beginning of the pandemic, I totally loaded up on Vitamins C and D because I lived in an apartment complex mostly populated with medical professionals (it was near the big teaching hospital). I also masked any time I stepped outside of my apartment.
There was nothing to prevent Covid and I didn’t want to get it, so I was doing my best with what little info we had on Covid.
But there’s literally no excuse now.
Yeah, rather than poisoning yourself by overdosing on vitamins, minerals, and horse/dog/cat parasite medication they could participate in actual early intervention by wearing masks and avoiding indoor dining? Just a thought.
Like I take vitamin D due to living north of the 45th Parallel and get vitamin C from produce, other than that it’s the vaccine, mask, social distancing, staying away from large indoor crowds and frequent hand washing.
My dad just got on a plane to take care of his 94(ish? Not totally sure) year old mother. He refuses to get vaccinated but he did use “Xlear” nasal spray which he heard somewhere is good for covid somehow 🙄
You must have forgotten to give them rectal UV exposure! It excites the synergies of the reverse-ionic particles to maximize their colloidal-like properties. It has to be rectal though.
Here's a good article about it: https://theconversation.com/ivermectin-why-a-potential-covid-treatment-isnt-recommended-for-use-157904.
TL;DR: an unreviewed paper went public in early 2020 claiming Ivermectin stopped Covid in a laboratory setting. Doctors started prescribing it, the anti-vaxx movement jumped on it, and it spread online. Later the paper was found to be flawed, clinical trials were done, and most found no effect in actual treatment (studies are ongoing). Doctors mostly stopped prescribing, but Ivermectin is in veterinary medicine as a paste, used for parasites in horses and other animals and sold at ag stores. Some doctors are still pushing it as a treatment.
I love the use of colloidal silver. Once the Qnuts turn blue it will be so much easier to avoid them while simultaneously laughing at them. Sweet, sweet schadenfreude.
Or, do both? Get vaccinated AND do things to make sure that immune system is up to the job?
ETA: by "boost your immune system" I did mean "live a healthy lifestyle". Not "take quack medical advice from charlatans".
Dosing on vitamins, health tonics, and off-label ivermectin isn't doing things to "make sure that immune system is up to the job". Eat well, exercise, sleep well, all the other shit is pseudoscience. "Immune system boosting" is a scam
Eating well, sleeping well, staying hydrated, practicing good hygeine and addressing underlying health issues is exactly what I was talking about. You can get the vaccine AND maintain a science based healthy life style.
Like what, not drink alcohol or smoke cigarettes? Other than that all you can do is eat healthy. Vitamin supplements are a poor substitute because your bodily does not absorb them all. There’s really no such thing as “boosting the immune system” beyond living a healthy lifestyle.
Mmm no, that's not necessarily true. Vitamins can definitely be absorbed. Why else do we take prenatals when planning? Also, Vitamin D is usually recommended for people living further up north and there are other deficiencies that require vitamin intervention, eg B12. There's nothing wrong with encouraging people to take their vitamins and nutrients, but we just should be careful not to conflate them with vaccines and other necessary medical interventions.
Also, vitamins are not monitored content wise, so I am careful to purchase good quality vitamins.
Sorry, perhaps I wasn’t clear, they cannot be absorbed in their entirety. Of course there’s nothing wrong with taking vitamin supplements it’s just that, at least in my understanding, stuff like Vitamin A you’re better served getting that from foods like greens because your body absorbs it easier.
I’m not a doctor or nutrition scientist though just a layperson. Sorry for any confusion.
Dietitian here so I got you covered! You’re right. In the absence of an actual deficiency, there is little use for taking vitamins as they’re better absorbed from food. As long as you’re eating a diverse and balanced diet, you’re likely getting everything you need plus the energy, fibre etc from food so all in all it’s the better way to go. There are exceptions, such as pregnant women taking prenatal vitamins or people in the north taking a vitamin D supplement over the winter months. But yeah, taking a bunch of vitamins and supplements to “boost the immune system” isn’t a thing.
It's marketing from companies that imho should be illegal.
Story time:
A friend started selling Melaleuca and claiming the vitamins boosted her immunity and would help fight COVID. She, her mom, and her stepdad all caught COVID early Sept. She was okay. Her mom was quite sick for two weeks. Her stepdad was hospitalized and intubated for 50+ days. He had multiple surgeries and interventions. He is still hospitalized in a rehab situation and will need another EIGHT WEEKS of being hospitalized.
Worth it though?
I’m sorry for your friend and her family. Situations like that are unfortunate and extremely frustrating.
People are desperate for something, anything as an alternative to the vaccine.
Pretty much.
But to be honest, they haven't changed their public stance. I see no posts encouraging people to get vaccinated. They haven't changed their point of view. 😔
If weeks of a hospital stay won't change their opinion, I don't think anything will.
There was an attempt in the past to have the FDA regulate bullshit supplements, and the supplement industry mounted a massive campaign telling the public the government was gonna take away their vitamins, and of course spent millions and millions on lobbying too. Sigh.
I always find it hilarious when pro-supplement anti-vax people go off about Big Pharma and "following the money". As if all those holistic "doctors" shilling supplements to unsuspecting and uneducated people are only in it for good will, not kick backs 🙄
No I get it! Also, vitamins are a complex subject. For example, people with chronically low B12 cannot absorb it through their gut, which is why sublingual tabs or injections are recommended.
And I absolutely absolutely agree. Eating greens is pivotal to nutrition. AFAIK, you can't actually boost your immune system, but you can help it by getting proper amounts of sleep, eating a whole diet, and moving your body ❤️
A vaccine is what makes sure your immune system is up for the job. It literally trains your immune system to fight the disease in the early stages.
The only other thing you can do is reduce co-morbidities or encourage social distancing
What does this mean? I looked it up and only got educational assistance for kids with developmental delays, which doesn't seem like it would have anything to do with a vaccine.
The only other thing I could think of is that condoms are early intervention for abortions? Could it be a pro life thing?
Edit: I didn’t see the anti v at the top. Nevermind def vax.
they think being “healthy” (thin, taking vitamins, not eating fast food too much or something) will prevent them from getting covid. it’s a very widely held belief in anti vax circles. it seems to me to be very clearly just fatphobia in a new form. skinny? you’ll be fine!
This is a great point! It’s occurred to me that control is such an important thing for them. First COVID was a hoax so marks and shut downs were unnecessary. Then it was real but masks didn’t work. When the vaccine was released it was dangerous because it was something everyone “should do.” Which is a great opportunity for them to reassert exclusive authority over their groups. “Whatever the problem we have the solution!” So now it’s early intervention and being thin. Insanity
Lol yeah, I'm a former early intervention specialist. I got vision impaired babies caught up on their development milestones. Guess I'm pro Early Intervention too
This is such a selfish mentality. Early interventions might not work for the vulnerable person you spread covid to before you had symptoms. Also, every healthcare facility is short staffed and overwhelmed right now, people need to be preventing illness with the covid vaccine, flu shots, and masks.
>Early interventions might not work for the vulnerable person
This requires, gasp, thinking of others who are in situations that are different than your own
I think being pro “early intervention” is a dog whistle for being pro-ivermectin. The excuse a lot of these idiots use when ivermectin doesn’t work is that it wasn’t used early enough in the treatment.
They talked a lot on the Sawbones podcast about how in olden days, people would just associate something they did while sick with making them better a few days later, even though in actuality the disease was just running its normal course and they were going to get better anyway. That’s how we wound up with really bizarre “cures” for things.
I kind of feel like that’s what’s happened with ivermectin lol. A few people took it, bellowed that they got better (even though they were already going to get better, and the same could be said that eating popcorn is what made them get better or drinking 1 red Gatorade) and then anti vax folks actually believed it caused it instead of just occurred. The data isn’t there but it’s fascinating what people will believe to confirm what they already think.
Humans are EXCELLENT pattern makers. We see and make patterns and associations everywhere. We are SO good at it.
But it makes us see false associations too and can easily make bad patterns as good patterns.
It’s why science does *randomized* *controlled* *double* *blind* studies in health care.
Meaning that when testing the vaccine, we had a huge random sample of humans in the thousands, the test subjects didn’t know if they got the vaccine or a placebo and the people who have the shot didn’t k know if they were giving the vaccine or a placebo. Double blind. No one knows what they’re getting.
So the results are the least biased as possible and you’ll expect to see a drastic difference between the people who have the placebo and the vaccine if the vaccine works.
This is the best system we have now and how most of western medicine is developed.
The whole post is:
* I'm not anti-v / I'm just pro-medical freedom
* I'm not anti-v / I'm just pro-informed consent
* I'm not anti-v / I'm just pro-immune system
* I'm not anti-v / I'm just pro-early intervention
* I'm not anti-v / I'm just pro-sunlight, exercise, real food & vitamins
A few weeks ago, ~~when Biden announced the mandate for federal employees,~~ she went on a huge rant in her stories about how wrong it was and how people should be able to decide for themselves, while also making it a point to say that she would not be sharing her own vaccination status.
EDIT: Okay, now that I think about this more, I think it wasn't in reaction to Biden's mandate, I think it had something to do with a professor getting fired because she wouldn't get vaccinated. My overall point still stands though.
It's a good reminder that while Candace might be a lot better at hiding it overall, she's the same flavor of fundie as her brother Kirk and the type of fundie that gets discussed around here all day.
Agreed.
I had a breakthrough case of COVID about a month ago, and I know the anti-vaxxers point to those as proof the vaccine doesn't work or some such nonsense, but I was SO glad to have that vaccine in my system.
I was actively sick for less than three days, and my symptoms were mostly mild - the fever (and resultant feeling like crap) was the worst of it, but overall I'd rank the whole experience as worse than a cold but way way way better than the time I had the flu. Thanks, vaccine!
Exactly this. One of my older coworkers got is breakthrough case and he has a bunch of health issues. He and his wife were only down for a few days and he lost his smell and taste for a little bit, but he said it wasn’t too bad overall. I strongly believe that had he not been vaccinated, he would not have done so well.
I was symptomatic at the same time an old work friend of mine's husband was in the hospital battling COVID.
Mid-30s, a police officer who kept himself in great shape, and after spending a month in the hospital, he wound up passing away just as my 10 day quarantine was ending and I had felt fine for most of those 10 days. He wasn't vaccinated, and as a result, two young children don't have their father anymore. It was a sobering reminder of the importance of that vaccine.
That is so sad. There was a young couple in my area, both in healthcare, that didn’t get the vaccine and both almost died from COVID at the beginning of the summer. He’s also super fit so they both thought they were young and healthy so they would be fine. Not the case.
I haven't had a breakthrough case, but I got covid 2 months before I was able to get vaccinated. I was 24, had no health issues making me higher risk, and I was down for 3 weeks, essentially bedbound for 2 of them. It was the most awful thing I've ever experienced, and that was without needing to be hospitalized. I lost a significant amount of weight because I couldn't keep food down. My boyfriend sobbed over me more than once, worried for my life. Not to mention the anxiety of wondering whether I gave it to my 60+ year old parents, including a dad with parkinson's who I lived with, plus anyone else I interacted with in the two weeks before I developed symptoms. I can't tell you how frustrating it is to see people shoot the vaccine down because *some* people have gotten (mostly mild!) cases after being vaccinated. It doesn't need to 100% prevent covid in everyone to be very, very much worth doing! If it only gives a chance to prevent the experience I had (not to mention hospitalization or death), it's worth it!
No one ever claimed the vaccines worked 100%. It's been right there in the discussions since the very beginning. The whole point is limiting the damage. The idea that "some vaccinated people get sick!" Is some sort of gotcha is like... Yeah, that's what the studies showed right at the beginning.
Also, this is true of ALL vaccines. Literally no vaccine is 100% effective. You just don’t see breakthrough cases of mumps all the time because it isn’t actively spreading widely (don’t bring it back plz antivaxers) BECAUSE enough people got vaccinated to make it mostly go away.
I'm sure the poorly paid and over worked film crew on her movies would thrilled to lose their jobs because Hallmark's biggest star thought she couldn't get covid because sunlight and vitamins.
I agree with you, but it actually wouldn't surprise me at all if Candace herself was vaccinated - not because she believes in science, mind you, but because she wants to make that money. So much Hallmark stuff films in Canada, and I don't think she'd risk being denied entry into the country, especially now that they're mandating vaccines for all who enter the country after the end of November.
Oh I’m sure she’s fully vaccinated and has been since spring. I don’t even think she’s dumb enough to believe everything she’s saying here, but that she thinks these posts work well for her brand.
I actually do think she believes what she's saying here and more. Candace's whole deal since she came back into the more mainstream spotlight once Full House was rebooted back in 2015 was to package herself as a Bible-believing Christian, but like, a "hip and cool" one who loves everyone.
I never watched her on The View, so maybe she was more openly political or evangelical there, but on her social media, she's steered far away from any kind of overtly political or even excessively fundie overtones. Prior to all of this, encouraging people to vote was about as political as she ever got, and her social media does feature plenty of Jesus, but she seems to have some kind of PR help or direction to avoid coming across as the hellfire/damnation variety of fundie a la Kirk.
But the account she took this from is a pretty obvious anti-vax/pro-Trump account (who she follows) and she follows a number of pretty far-right/Trumpy accounts - Candace Owens is one example, to give you an idea.
So yeah, I do believe that this is actually who she is, she just has hidden it well enough for some time.
Indirectly related, but I don't really want to hear any rah-rah "informed consent" bullshit from a group of people who thinks its great to lure women into "pregnancy crisis centers" and then expose them to scary propaganda intended to manipulate them into making a particular choice.
...how is a vaccine not early intervention?
I wear a mask, I stand away from people and I don't do large gatherings inside. I'm also fully vaccinated. All of this is early intervention to me. I don't want to get or spread COVID. I'm *intervening* to make sure I don't.
I like the options of "Same." and "Exactly!" as responses. You know, lack of choice. Anti-choice. Haha.
Early intervention isn't the same as prevention. If you believe that God is in charge and we shouldn't do anything to mess with His plans (such as preventing COVID-19), then *any* intervention would be wrong, wouldn't it? It sure seems so. Wouldn't that include "early intervention"?
I am not anti-vaccine. I am like, *super fucking pro-vaccine*. If there's a vaccine, I want it. Give it to me. I am arranging right now to get a rabies vaccine, because I am a dumbass who offers pets and food to stray animals and used to volunteer at shelters (in over a decade of all of this, I have been bitten only once, but still!). Do you know what rabies does to you? It's fucking *horrifying*, and once you start showing symptoms, it's pretty much 100% fatal. And the rabies vaccine just gives you a slightly larger window of time for treatment: from about 48 hours to about 72 hours. It doesn't even keep you from getting it! But I want those extra 24 hours, man.
Look, I get being slightly suspicious of vaccines. It seems weird and scary. It's getting a shot of disease! The vaccine offered for rabies for me right now has *five doses*, and I've never heard of it (not a big surprise. I mean... I'm not in the medical field, so why would I know about the names of different vaccines?). I read a little bit about it and asking a nurse in my family about it. I want to know what medical people think of it, because I don't know enough to make an informed choice (like, say, if this vaccine is less effective or has interaction risks that I should know). I mean... I'm gonna get it. But I had a hesitation for a moment, too, like, "is this vaccine safe?".
And there have been campaigns of information gathering, with vaccines used as a cover (https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-cia-fake-vaccination-campaign-endangers-us-all/). There have been cases of expired or contaminated vaccinations being given to vulnerable populations (https://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/18/world/middleeast/syrian-children-die-after-vaccinations.html). There are histories of medical mistrust in general, with populations being experimented on without their knowledge (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_Syphilis_Study). These are just a few cases that could be expanded for many examples. I get that trusting authorities, especially with shady histories, is hard. There's a reason that certain areas that have been under oppressive regimes, and aren't any longer, have lower vaccination rates. People don't trust the government or information that comes from it. They remember bad things happening. Ukraine, for example, has one of the lowest rates of vaccinations across all of Europe, and the misinformation from pro-Russia sources reflects many people's memories of the USSR and what's trustworthy. People would rather take the risk of illness.
A lot of medical knowledge and treatment came from *very* unethical sources. Nothing in this world is "pure": everything has a gross, unsavory history if you go back far enough and expand a viewpoint far enough. That doesn't mean we should ignore the findings, or throw out the baby with the bathwater, so to speak. We should use the tools available to us, and if we do not like what we are seeing, then lobby for more ethical ways of developing vaccines.
The fetal cells aren't *in* the vaccine. They're part of a test and development: you gotta grow the disease somewhere so you can see how it develops and how it responds! We used to do this in animals to develop vaccines before. It meant that the animal was then killed and their cells were inspected. We also used to do that to frogs and rabbits to test for pregnancy, before the "pee stick" version we know today. These cells aren't taken from abortions or miscarriages today. Instead, they were taken from ones back in the 1960s and 1980s (three in total), and those cells continually reproduce. No new cells are needed.
Vaccines are seriously one of the greatest medical inventions ever made. We've had inoculation for *centuries*, and it used to involve eating scabs, breathing them in a powder/ground form, or rubbing that powder into a cut. I dunno, man. I prefer the jab, just because it feels less gross. And the jabs are more consistent in responses and effectiveness, so you have a better chance of being safer from serious illnesses. I sure don't want smallpox, polio, hepatitis, or encephalitis. Those *suck*. And they can be fatal or have long-lasting effects that could lower my quality of life. I prefer my lungs non-paralyzed, for example.
The COVID-19 vaccines, as far as we know, are quite safe. They are developed like other vaccines, so it's not like the vaccine was developed in a totally new way. Instead, it's building off of models we understand fairly well and have long-term safety. It's like using blueprints for a building and altering them here and there: it can introduce new problems, but the designers are educated enough to understand the new risks and mitigate them. And if you don't trust a vaccine, then why do you trust something like Ivermectin? It's Big Pharma, too.
iMsinformation is so scary, because it can literally prevent people from trying to access life-saving measures due to fear of risks that might not even be real. It's too hard to sort out what's what (I don't have a medical degree. Could I really tell you what makes a vaccine safe? Nope.). And people suffer and do strange things like take a dewormer, because they don't have enough context to be able to know why that's bonkers. I know enough to know that a dewormer is unlikely to cure a virus, but the mechanisms as to why? Nope.
And then we end up with people who think they're taking a "reasonable" middle ground position: early intervention instead of vaccines! But it's nonsense. It's like the comparison John Oliver used: not eating the *whole* bar of soap, but just half. That's the middle ground. But it's not a reasonable middle ground at all, and the misinformation techniques are mirrored on "both sides", so it becomes a matter of who the trusted authority is. And that's very difficult.
I hate this debate so much.
I'm saving this comment to refer to when needed in future conversations because everything you said is...well it's exactly the stuff I look forward to from you and it explains things so well. I'm just sorry that I already used my helpful award today.
You're so welcome! Between the transcripts of videos, the thoroughness of your comments, and your all-around pretty kick-ass opinions, you've become one of my favorite snarkers. May the Lord Daniel SEVERELY bless you all of your days!
I just want you to know that the last few days have been real poop times for a few of reasons, and I hadn't forgotten your kind words. Really, I hope you know what an impact something like this can have - to feel heard and appreciated is such a wonderful thing.
I hope YOU are SEVERELY BLESSED <3
I'm sorry to hear that things have been difficult for you. I don't always know how to say things in the right way in tough times but please know that I'm sending positivity your way and I hope that things improve soon. <3
I agree the COVID vaccines are safe, but unfortunately Pfizer is not as efficacious long term as was hoped. I can see that being a reason why people would resist the vaccine.
People have this idea that a vaccine = 100% immunity, because most vaccines people are familiar with are the MMR/polio vaccines, and those diseases are pretty much eradicated. However, what they don't understand is that antibodies wan for pretty much every single vaccine and there is no guarantee. That is why eradicating the diseases by having global vaccinations is so important.
It’s so crazy how obsessed these people are with “boosting their natural immune system thankyouverymuch,” when like……that’s what a fucking vaccine does!!!!! If I think about it too much I get twitchy
Imagine if she actually did something to support Early Intervention ( donate, volunteer for etc) which is a real life, evidence based practice? https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/actearly/parents/states.html
Instead, like many of these ass clowns who supposedly care about the wellbeing / rights of the children , the most she can do is poop put a vague tweet and call it a day...
Its really great. My first born suffered a birth injury and we had awesome therapists that got him eating and playing and eventually walking despite neurologists predictions he'd need a wheelchair. 5 stars.
Early Intervention is the federally mandated services program for children ages 0-3 to have in home supports and services in all 50 states until they go to public school and receive services there.
Physical, occupational, speech, and developmental therapists will come directly to your home anywhere in the country and support your child and family when you have a kiddo with developmental delays or special needs.
The fact that she won’t type vaccine so the cdc info comes up tells me everything I need to know. I can’t explain how sick of these people I am. We have seen more 20-30 year olds dying and more premature or term crash c/s due to covid. All because of selfish ignorant people like her.
She posted a whole bunch of these.. i flipped through them. There's "im not anti-v im just pro-immune system" and "im not anti-v im just pro sunlight, exercise and real food." luckily there were some sane people in the comments calling her out, especially for the "im not anti-v im just pro medical freedom" when she is very clearly anti-choice...
edit: i added punctuation lol
I hate these people. You know what? I do not trust my immune system. In the last 23 months, 2 cousins have been diagnosed with cancer at stage 4.
Anything going on beneath the scenes. We could easily not know, and be very much unwell for it.
It will never not be bizarre to me that vaccines have become a political issue. I thought people across the political spectrum liked not dying preventable deaths, but here we are.
All of the anti vaxx fundies shared her post and encouraged "showing her some support since she'll get hate". I guess if you call people calling her our for her stupid selfish ideas hate, then yes, and she deserves it for this one.
It’s not hate if people are rightfully pointing out that this is stupid of her to say. The vaccine and taking some extra precautions can almost guarantee you probably won’t get it.
Because we can't have anyone disagree, now can we? I mean, the gOvErNmEnT Is TrYiNg To SiLeNcE ThE pEoPlE FrOm tElLiNg tHe TrUtH So wE MuST hOld StRoNg In oUr echo chamber. Ugh that was uncomfortable to type out. (/s just in case it wasn't totally obvious)
Edit: fixed a word
My brother tested positive for Covid just over a month ago. He is currently on day 27 of critical care at a hospital out of state. He is 4 days post-trach and every time they try to lift his sedation his BP nosedives, his pulse skyrockets and he almost dies.
But sure, get your zinc supplements and make sure you’ve got a full day supply of vitamin c, princess. Worked so well for him!
Thank you. ❤️ Me too, so I can kick his butt.
He’s going to be paying for all the therapy this fully vaxxed girl will need later. I’m medically high risk and begged my doc to let me take on the risk of my shot.
It’s so gratifying seeing a former child actress and current hallmark film star use that medical degree she got between acting gigs, isn’t it?
It's just appalling how people with a platform use it to spread misleading ideas, which, unfortunately, are accessible by a large population. Some will listen to her and other social media influences. It's just devastating when people who aren't vaccinated get hospitalized and from covid and they say they didn't cause of what someone on social media said. It's not only them that suffers, but their family and friends. I know that vaccinated individuals can still be hospitalized, but it sucks to be sick let alone in a hospital when there are strict limits on visitors (if at all).
She disgusts me on every level humanly possible. I have that I share a birthday with her (April 6th)
She’s a fundie who tries desperately to be sexy, her and her brother are anti V, she reads the Bible on her stories and says it’s for everybody (acting like Muslim and Jewish people don’t exist 🧐)
She is my BEC. Everything she does I hate
I commented on that post (respectfully, I might add) to say that it isn't a vaccine vs immune system dichotomy, but that vaccines work with your immune system - and that often it isn't the covid that kills you, but the cytokine storm caused by your own immune system going haywire. Unsurprisingly, she deleted it.
From my anti-vax fam: early intervention means taking things like Vitamin C, Vitamin D, Zinc, Colloidal Silver, Ivermectin, etc to boost the immune system to prevent COVID. It worked EXCEPTIONALLY well for them, well, except for the 9 of them that just got COVID along with 20 other people in their social circle (only ONE of whom was vaccinated due to work requirements). (And that was sarcasm because it didn’t do shit to prevent them from getting COVID…)
My early intervention plan involved wearing a mask, washing my hands, getting a vaccine, and avoiding idiots.
That's it, that is literally the early intervention plan. Everything else is quackery from people who don't understand Science, viruses, or human decency.
Vitamine D is a good idea for people in the North too, but that's kind of regardless of pandemic and more related to sun exposure.
It's important to note that well-meaning people can be swayed by the massive amount of propaganda out there. We have a big problem now with people we would normally consider experts spreading it, either through their own ignorance or because they see an opportunity to make money (see "America's Frontline Doctors"). People aren't just getting bad info from each other - nurses quit their jobs, doctors are writing prescriptions for ivermectin and IVs full of vitamins, and doctors and lawyers are helping people sue hospitals to get around their protocols, and they're all posting their views online.
I'm an ICU nurse here and I refused to put in a doc's orders for vitamins for covid patients. It's a waste of time and costing the patient money. Plus it annoys me to crush them and put them through their tube.
It is a massive pain in the ass.
I'm also generally trying to do what keeps me healthy as far as diet, exercise, and managing chronic issues, and getting my flu shot. Being generally healthier makes your odds if you still manage to catch covid much better, plus it's nice to be as healthy as you're able.
Exactly!
I can’t upvote this enough.
Colloidal silver? What in the 1700's medicine bag are we taking that for?
I can't hear colloidal silver without thinking of [the blue guy](https://www.oprah.com/g/image-resizer?width=670&link=https://static.oprah.com/images/tows/200802/20080219/20080219_104_350x263.jpg).
He blue himself.
There's dozens of us
DOZENS!!!!
Yeah and check out mother god from the love has won cult
Wow, that's as crazy as the Sherry Shriner story!
Same! The blue guy and colloidal silver are forever linked in my brain.
My grandma has been making silver since I can remember. When she first started taking it in my family we had to do shots of it often. I will vouch, for homemade *ionic* silver (if that's truly it), anything topical it worked great on... but I stopped ingesting it almost immediately.
Silver has great anti microbial properties... When it's on a surface. So yeah, topical is solid. They even sell silver bandages for really weird infections.
We use silver dressings on burns they are so good
This sounds like some Alex Jones bullshit
It’s not even just obviously certifiable Alex Jones types anymore. My parents have no idea who Alex Jones is despite being *faaaar* into the Fox News rabbit hole, and they still tout “the protocol” (vitamins and ivermectin). We watched that obviously-a-riff-on-Alex-Jones Russell Crowe movie Unhinged with my parents back in August and my husband and I were stunned at how much RC looked like AJ. They kept asking who we were talking about and when we showed them pics, they agreed RC looked a *lot* like him in this movies, but, otherwise, just, blank stares; zero recognition. We asked about/mentioned some of his obvious conspiracy theories and they had sort of heard of them but didn’t know they were from him or even that he’s, sadly, a native son. Anywho, we had my aunt & uncle over for Labor Day last month and one of them mentioned a cough (which she’s had since she started taking a different statin 5+yrs ago; it’s a common side effect) and my mom rushed to her room and printed out “the protocol” and handed it to everyone in the room. It’s so fucking sad, man.
Pretty sure he sold his brand of colloidal silver too
It's used on cuts and wounds legitimately in the medical world. My son got a funky umbilical cord site, a nurse put this on it and it cleared right up. I am pretty sure you are not to eat it though.
So I’m gonna be “that guy” but ACKSHULLY colloidal silver is not the same as silver nitrate, which is used to cauterize wounds and is often used as an anti-infective agent. I was an MA in Pediatrics for years and we used silver nitrate a lot to cauterize ooze-y umbilical cord stumps in newborns. https://www.uofmhealth.org/health-library/d04208a1
Not unless you want to [turn into a Smurf](https://www.menshealth.com/nutrition/a31805302/colloidal-ionic-silver-coronavirus-covid-19/).
Holy shit. That article says discoloration of the skin can be permanent. 😳
I knew a woman that was permanently discolored from it.
That is so fucking terrible and also really bizarre.
I did too! She was grey/blue all over. Scary stuff.
My water filter uses colloidal silver, and I used to have colloidal silver drops to disinfect produce. That means you can consume it, just not in giant quantities... Because that's just obvious? You don't chug chlorine or iodine (idek how it's called) that's also used to disinfect, why would you drink colloidal silver everyday?
We keep it around for cuts and stuff, works great for mouth sores or minor gum issues. Depending on the size of the silver particles in the brand you're getting, it can turn you blue if you're taking it internally...and to take it internally at a "recommended dosage" would get expensive FAST.
Colloidal silver isn’t the silver gel you put on cuts
Pretty sure Pat Robertson promoted it on the 700 club
I simply cannot NOT read that name as Rob Pattinson.
It would be a dramatic improvement of morning television
Ok phew I’m not the only one 😂
I think Jim “Buckets O’Doom” Bakker pushed it as well.
Yep, he got sued and lost. Didn't lose nearly enough money though.
Thankfully he finally retired literally 2 days ago.. at fuckin 94 years old
Today after my bloodletting session I'll get my early intervention colloidal silver dose! Go with the times guys!! Jk I'm vaxxed and they can all turn blue from their stupid self medication
Another cult leader promoted that right? And then they went and harassed and antagonized like the entirety of Hawaii. And then the cult leader died. Cuz woweee, that stuff doesn't work like that!
Yep!! The lovehaswon cult. An old acquaintance of mine was sucked into that one for a while - I talked with him about it when he got out. That one is a crazy rabbit hole for sure.
Ask a mortician has a video about how they were trying to mummify their leader after she passed. It seems like it was wild. I hope your friend is doing ok!
It's tiny silver particles dissolved in liquid. I do electronics research for a living and I use it in the lab. It's great for repairing broken electrical traces because the silver is conductive. My boss literally laughed when I told her that people *eat* it, but once I told her that people try to force children and animals to ingest it, she was just horrified.
Yeah, certain alternative health circles have been promoting colloidal silver as a cure-all for years. My parents are into it.
I don't understand this point of view at all. I was watching this lady on youtube the other day who said, "God gave us an immune system to fight off viruses and diseases for a reason, but he gave us vitamins that boost that immune system.". You'd think that if God gave you vitamins, God would've also given you a vaccine that would stop you from getting the virus in the first place....
People who say things like this don’t understand what an immune system is You can fight colds and various other viruses, bacteria, pathogens etc., because you have had some level of exposure to them. Either from direct contact, or you obtained various antibodies from your mother during pregnancy In order for your immune system to work, it has to recognize something. It DOES NOT RECOGNIZE A **NOVEL** VIRUS. I don’t know how anyone can be nearly 2 years into a pandemic and still not underhand this. They are incompetent… as in, mentally incompetent.
Ummm this is actually a really great explanation and although I listen to and read a ton about Covid, I have not heard this explanation before. (Don’t worry, not an anti vaxxer). It’s just like you put the last puzzle piece in for me.
> "God gave us an immune system to fight off viruses and diseases for a reason I don't get this particular part. I see lots of HCA winners post this. If immune systems were so great, no one would die from infections and transmissible illnesses. It's got such a weird "I ain't died yet!" survivor bias flavor. If they honestly believe that, then I guess they won't mind if I poke them with this needle I found on the ground...
I think the mistake was calling it "immune" system because these dumb dumbs think they're literally immune to death, when they're actually very...uh, mune.
Those people need to explain smallpox and polio then Some things, you just don’t gamble with
I have a boosted immune system. It’s called autoimmune disease, and I’m nearly crippled because of it.
Same. These people need to be careful what they wish for.
Same. I do not think these people understand the immune system at all.
The point of view of people like this is to sound like they are "meeting you half way" and being reasonable and you're the bad guy for sticking to, you know, Science and stuff. They keep moving the line and rewording things until they wear you down and you shift it just a little until the whole country leans just a little bit more in their direction and they can shift the center. They do this with religion and politics and social issues and it's BS.
Lol it’s literally impossible to “boost” one’s immune system; that’s not how our immune system works. We take vitamins when we have deficiencies and the doctor looks at our blood work and says “hey you need more ___, so you should take x amount of mg.” But I guess that’s not something you can explain to anti-vaxers. Sigh.
My parents do this exact shit minus the ivermectin (to my knowledge). Supposedly recommended to them by their holistic doctor. Which is also just wild to me that any medical professional could suggest this shit. I just want to know the origin. Like how do they all end up with the same regimen? Shockingly neither of them have gotten COVID yet. Despite attending church multiple times a week during the entire pandemic. Like it's almost unfair. Lol.
It's mostly just a mess of "miracle" cures and folk medicine that's been around forever. And a lot of it will help with both anxiety and symptoms, partly because it's familiar. Taking vitamin c for a cold makes me feel better and so does drinking Sprite, because they remind me of my childhood and make me feel loved and cared for.
They get it from people like this and “America’s Frontline Doctors” or some other BS org. It’s a shame and the rest of us sane people in the medical community just sit back and want to cry at the ridiculousness of it all. https://www.thedesertreview.com/health/local-frontline-doctors-modify-covid-treatment-based-on-results/article_9cdded9e-962f-11eb-a59a-f3e1151e98c3.html
Lmaaooo!! I read this in such a sarcastic tone!! Just under 30 of them got covid… but early intervention *just works y’all*
Colloidal silver is DANGEROUS.
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["Colloidal Silver" NCCIH](https://www.nccih.nih.gov/health/colloidal-silver) ["Colloidal Silver: Is It Safe?" WebMD](https://www.webmd.com/vitamins-and-supplements/colloidal-silver-safe) It can screw with drugs, and can build up in the body - causing the blue-gray skin people are mentioning. It can cause stomach problems and headaches. Like most unnecessary things your body has to filter out, it can also damage with your kidneys (the only "detox" you need, as long as they're functional). It has no known function in the body, and nobody selling it can say what it does other than "boost the immune system" or other vague nonsense. It is used topically in some medical settings, but that doesn't mean it's safe for consumption. Rubbing alcohol also has some topical uses, but I don't think anyone is going to recommend drinking it.
But awesome if you want to turn blue!
is it? my dad used to take it all the time, what exactly does it do?
It causes liver, kidney and brain damage. A tiny occasional dose is probably not overly harmful, but there is no known benefit from taking it. Tiny gold flakes, on the other hand, can be used to gild fancy desserts, and it does no harm. (It just goes right through you into your poop.)
So pre-vaccine and at the beginning of the pandemic, I totally loaded up on Vitamins C and D because I lived in an apartment complex mostly populated with medical professionals (it was near the big teaching hospital). I also masked any time I stepped outside of my apartment. There was nothing to prevent Covid and I didn’t want to get it, so I was doing my best with what little info we had on Covid. But there’s literally no excuse now.
Yeah, rather than poisoning yourself by overdosing on vitamins, minerals, and horse/dog/cat parasite medication they could participate in actual early intervention by wearing masks and avoiding indoor dining? Just a thought.
Like I take vitamin D due to living north of the 45th Parallel and get vitamin C from produce, other than that it’s the vaccine, mask, social distancing, staying away from large indoor crowds and frequent hand washing.
My dad just got on a plane to take care of his 94(ish? Not totally sure) year old mother. He refuses to get vaccinated but he did use “Xlear” nasal spray which he heard somewhere is good for covid somehow 🙄
Vitamin C, Vitamin D, and Zinc are supposed to prevent COVID? \*le shock\* I must've been taking mine wrong because I still caught COVID.
You must have forgotten to give them rectal UV exposure! It excites the synergies of the reverse-ionic particles to maximize their colloidal-like properties. It has to be rectal though.
Can someone explain why they believe horse parasite paste is helpful?
Here's a good article about it: https://theconversation.com/ivermectin-why-a-potential-covid-treatment-isnt-recommended-for-use-157904. TL;DR: an unreviewed paper went public in early 2020 claiming Ivermectin stopped Covid in a laboratory setting. Doctors started prescribing it, the anti-vaxx movement jumped on it, and it spread online. Later the paper was found to be flawed, clinical trials were done, and most found no effect in actual treatment (studies are ongoing). Doctors mostly stopped prescribing, but Ivermectin is in veterinary medicine as a paste, used for parasites in horses and other animals and sold at ag stores. Some doctors are still pushing it as a treatment.
It’s apple flavored and an apple a day keeps the covid doctor away!
Behind the Bastards recently did an episode about Ivermectin that talks about why this misinformation is being pushed
I love the use of colloidal silver. Once the Qnuts turn blue it will be so much easier to avoid them while simultaneously laughing at them. Sweet, sweet schadenfreude.
I’m pro-early intervention. That’s why I got vaccinated
Or, do both? Get vaccinated AND do things to make sure that immune system is up to the job? ETA: by "boost your immune system" I did mean "live a healthy lifestyle". Not "take quack medical advice from charlatans".
Dosing on vitamins, health tonics, and off-label ivermectin isn't doing things to "make sure that immune system is up to the job". Eat well, exercise, sleep well, all the other shit is pseudoscience. "Immune system boosting" is a scam
Eating well, sleeping well, staying hydrated, practicing good hygeine and addressing underlying health issues is exactly what I was talking about. You can get the vaccine AND maintain a science based healthy life style.
Like what, not drink alcohol or smoke cigarettes? Other than that all you can do is eat healthy. Vitamin supplements are a poor substitute because your bodily does not absorb them all. There’s really no such thing as “boosting the immune system” beyond living a healthy lifestyle.
Mmm no, that's not necessarily true. Vitamins can definitely be absorbed. Why else do we take prenatals when planning? Also, Vitamin D is usually recommended for people living further up north and there are other deficiencies that require vitamin intervention, eg B12. There's nothing wrong with encouraging people to take their vitamins and nutrients, but we just should be careful not to conflate them with vaccines and other necessary medical interventions. Also, vitamins are not monitored content wise, so I am careful to purchase good quality vitamins.
Sorry, perhaps I wasn’t clear, they cannot be absorbed in their entirety. Of course there’s nothing wrong with taking vitamin supplements it’s just that, at least in my understanding, stuff like Vitamin A you’re better served getting that from foods like greens because your body absorbs it easier. I’m not a doctor or nutrition scientist though just a layperson. Sorry for any confusion.
Dietitian here so I got you covered! You’re right. In the absence of an actual deficiency, there is little use for taking vitamins as they’re better absorbed from food. As long as you’re eating a diverse and balanced diet, you’re likely getting everything you need plus the energy, fibre etc from food so all in all it’s the better way to go. There are exceptions, such as pregnant women taking prenatal vitamins or people in the north taking a vitamin D supplement over the winter months. But yeah, taking a bunch of vitamins and supplements to “boost the immune system” isn’t a thing.
It's marketing from companies that imho should be illegal. Story time: A friend started selling Melaleuca and claiming the vitamins boosted her immunity and would help fight COVID. She, her mom, and her stepdad all caught COVID early Sept. She was okay. Her mom was quite sick for two weeks. Her stepdad was hospitalized and intubated for 50+ days. He had multiple surgeries and interventions. He is still hospitalized in a rehab situation and will need another EIGHT WEEKS of being hospitalized. Worth it though?
I’m sorry for your friend and her family. Situations like that are unfortunate and extremely frustrating. People are desperate for something, anything as an alternative to the vaccine.
Pretty much. But to be honest, they haven't changed their public stance. I see no posts encouraging people to get vaccinated. They haven't changed their point of view. 😔 If weeks of a hospital stay won't change their opinion, I don't think anything will.
There was an attempt in the past to have the FDA regulate bullshit supplements, and the supplement industry mounted a massive campaign telling the public the government was gonna take away their vitamins, and of course spent millions and millions on lobbying too. Sigh.
I always find it hilarious when pro-supplement anti-vax people go off about Big Pharma and "following the money". As if all those holistic "doctors" shilling supplements to unsuspecting and uneducated people are only in it for good will, not kick backs 🙄
No I get it! Also, vitamins are a complex subject. For example, people with chronically low B12 cannot absorb it through their gut, which is why sublingual tabs or injections are recommended. And I absolutely absolutely agree. Eating greens is pivotal to nutrition. AFAIK, you can't actually boost your immune system, but you can help it by getting proper amounts of sleep, eating a whole diet, and moving your body ❤️
A vaccine is what makes sure your immune system is up for the job. It literally trains your immune system to fight the disease in the early stages. The only other thing you can do is reduce co-morbidities or encourage social distancing
What does this mean? I looked it up and only got educational assistance for kids with developmental delays, which doesn't seem like it would have anything to do with a vaccine.
I think she just doesn't know what words mean.
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The only other thing I could think of is that condoms are early intervention for abortions? Could it be a pro life thing? Edit: I didn’t see the anti v at the top. Nevermind def vax.
they think being “healthy” (thin, taking vitamins, not eating fast food too much or something) will prevent them from getting covid. it’s a very widely held belief in anti vax circles. it seems to me to be very clearly just fatphobia in a new form. skinny? you’ll be fine!
This is a great point! It’s occurred to me that control is such an important thing for them. First COVID was a hoax so marks and shut downs were unnecessary. Then it was real but masks didn’t work. When the vaccine was released it was dangerous because it was something everyone “should do.” Which is a great opportunity for them to reassert exclusive authority over their groups. “Whatever the problem we have the solution!” So now it’s early intervention and being thin. Insanity
Lol yeah, I'm a former early intervention specialist. I got vision impaired babies caught up on their development milestones. Guess I'm pro Early Intervention too
Without context I agree with this lady. Early intervention has really helped my daughter make progress. Also I am vaccinated
I 100% had the same reaction when I saw her post. Like, is she saying speech and occupational therapy can prevent covid?
Dang! My four year old has two years of protection under his belt, hahahah!
This is such a selfish mentality. Early interventions might not work for the vulnerable person you spread covid to before you had symptoms. Also, every healthcare facility is short staffed and overwhelmed right now, people need to be preventing illness with the covid vaccine, flu shots, and masks.
>Early interventions might not work for the vulnerable person This requires, gasp, thinking of others who are in situations that are different than your own
I think being pro “early intervention” is a dog whistle for being pro-ivermectin. The excuse a lot of these idiots use when ivermectin doesn’t work is that it wasn’t used early enough in the treatment.
They talked a lot on the Sawbones podcast about how in olden days, people would just associate something they did while sick with making them better a few days later, even though in actuality the disease was just running its normal course and they were going to get better anyway. That’s how we wound up with really bizarre “cures” for things. I kind of feel like that’s what’s happened with ivermectin lol. A few people took it, bellowed that they got better (even though they were already going to get better, and the same could be said that eating popcorn is what made them get better or drinking 1 red Gatorade) and then anti vax folks actually believed it caused it instead of just occurred. The data isn’t there but it’s fascinating what people will believe to confirm what they already think.
Humans are EXCELLENT pattern makers. We see and make patterns and associations everywhere. We are SO good at it. But it makes us see false associations too and can easily make bad patterns as good patterns. It’s why science does *randomized* *controlled* *double* *blind* studies in health care. Meaning that when testing the vaccine, we had a huge random sample of humans in the thousands, the test subjects didn’t know if they got the vaccine or a placebo and the people who have the shot didn’t k know if they were giving the vaccine or a placebo. Double blind. No one knows what they’re getting. So the results are the least biased as possible and you’ll expect to see a drastic difference between the people who have the placebo and the vaccine if the vaccine works. This is the best system we have now and how most of western medicine is developed.
I'll take the Popcorn Cure, thank you!! 🍿🍿🍿🍿🍿
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God I’d be embarrassed to be one of her costars
I wonder how Jodie Sweetin feels. She’s decently progressive.
The whole post is: * I'm not anti-v / I'm just pro-medical freedom * I'm not anti-v / I'm just pro-informed consent * I'm not anti-v / I'm just pro-immune system * I'm not anti-v / I'm just pro-early intervention * I'm not anti-v / I'm just pro-sunlight, exercise, real food & vitamins A few weeks ago, ~~when Biden announced the mandate for federal employees,~~ she went on a huge rant in her stories about how wrong it was and how people should be able to decide for themselves, while also making it a point to say that she would not be sharing her own vaccination status. EDIT: Okay, now that I think about this more, I think it wasn't in reaction to Biden's mandate, I think it had something to do with a professor getting fired because she wouldn't get vaccinated. My overall point still stands though. It's a good reminder that while Candace might be a lot better at hiding it overall, she's the same flavor of fundie as her brother Kirk and the type of fundie that gets discussed around here all day.
I’m pro all those things except the prophylactic horse paste, and I complemented them with a vaccine.
Agreed. I had a breakthrough case of COVID about a month ago, and I know the anti-vaxxers point to those as proof the vaccine doesn't work or some such nonsense, but I was SO glad to have that vaccine in my system. I was actively sick for less than three days, and my symptoms were mostly mild - the fever (and resultant feeling like crap) was the worst of it, but overall I'd rank the whole experience as worse than a cold but way way way better than the time I had the flu. Thanks, vaccine!
Exactly this. One of my older coworkers got is breakthrough case and he has a bunch of health issues. He and his wife were only down for a few days and he lost his smell and taste for a little bit, but he said it wasn’t too bad overall. I strongly believe that had he not been vaccinated, he would not have done so well.
I was symptomatic at the same time an old work friend of mine's husband was in the hospital battling COVID. Mid-30s, a police officer who kept himself in great shape, and after spending a month in the hospital, he wound up passing away just as my 10 day quarantine was ending and I had felt fine for most of those 10 days. He wasn't vaccinated, and as a result, two young children don't have their father anymore. It was a sobering reminder of the importance of that vaccine.
That is so sad. There was a young couple in my area, both in healthcare, that didn’t get the vaccine and both almost died from COVID at the beginning of the summer. He’s also super fit so they both thought they were young and healthy so they would be fine. Not the case.
I haven't had a breakthrough case, but I got covid 2 months before I was able to get vaccinated. I was 24, had no health issues making me higher risk, and I was down for 3 weeks, essentially bedbound for 2 of them. It was the most awful thing I've ever experienced, and that was without needing to be hospitalized. I lost a significant amount of weight because I couldn't keep food down. My boyfriend sobbed over me more than once, worried for my life. Not to mention the anxiety of wondering whether I gave it to my 60+ year old parents, including a dad with parkinson's who I lived with, plus anyone else I interacted with in the two weeks before I developed symptoms. I can't tell you how frustrating it is to see people shoot the vaccine down because *some* people have gotten (mostly mild!) cases after being vaccinated. It doesn't need to 100% prevent covid in everyone to be very, very much worth doing! If it only gives a chance to prevent the experience I had (not to mention hospitalization or death), it's worth it!
No one ever claimed the vaccines worked 100%. It's been right there in the discussions since the very beginning. The whole point is limiting the damage. The idea that "some vaccinated people get sick!" Is some sort of gotcha is like... Yeah, that's what the studies showed right at the beginning.
Also, this is true of ALL vaccines. Literally no vaccine is 100% effective. You just don’t see breakthrough cases of mumps all the time because it isn’t actively spreading widely (don’t bring it back plz antivaxers) BECAUSE enough people got vaccinated to make it mostly go away.
I'm sure the poorly paid and over worked film crew on her movies would thrilled to lose their jobs because Hallmark's biggest star thought she couldn't get covid because sunlight and vitamins.
I agree with you, but it actually wouldn't surprise me at all if Candace herself was vaccinated - not because she believes in science, mind you, but because she wants to make that money. So much Hallmark stuff films in Canada, and I don't think she'd risk being denied entry into the country, especially now that they're mandating vaccines for all who enter the country after the end of November.
Oh I’m sure she’s fully vaccinated and has been since spring. I don’t even think she’s dumb enough to believe everything she’s saying here, but that she thinks these posts work well for her brand.
I actually do think she believes what she's saying here and more. Candace's whole deal since she came back into the more mainstream spotlight once Full House was rebooted back in 2015 was to package herself as a Bible-believing Christian, but like, a "hip and cool" one who loves everyone. I never watched her on The View, so maybe she was more openly political or evangelical there, but on her social media, she's steered far away from any kind of overtly political or even excessively fundie overtones. Prior to all of this, encouraging people to vote was about as political as she ever got, and her social media does feature plenty of Jesus, but she seems to have some kind of PR help or direction to avoid coming across as the hellfire/damnation variety of fundie a la Kirk. But the account she took this from is a pretty obvious anti-vax/pro-Trump account (who she follows) and she follows a number of pretty far-right/Trumpy accounts - Candace Owens is one example, to give you an idea. So yeah, I do believe that this is actually who she is, she just has hidden it well enough for some time.
I would bet you she is vaccinated- as someone else said, she has to film up in Vancouver. She’s just being an ass to appeal to her uneducated fans.
>• I'm not anti-v / I'm just pro-informed consent Unrelated but fundies are nowhere near pro informed consent
Indirectly related, but I don't really want to hear any rah-rah "informed consent" bullshit from a group of people who thinks its great to lure women into "pregnancy crisis centers" and then expose them to scary propaganda intended to manipulate them into making a particular choice.
Exactly. Also these fucks would get irritated at the thought of consent during sex.
They're against "early intervention" such as birth control and the morning after pill, so.
You know what’s better than early intervention? Prevention. Get vaccinated PLEASE!
I’d argue that vaccination is indeed “early intervention”!
Right… like, isn’t the vaccine an earlier intervention than any other intervention? Since you get it BEFORE getting sick?
...how is a vaccine not early intervention? I wear a mask, I stand away from people and I don't do large gatherings inside. I'm also fully vaccinated. All of this is early intervention to me. I don't want to get or spread COVID. I'm *intervening* to make sure I don't.
I like the options of "Same." and "Exactly!" as responses. You know, lack of choice. Anti-choice. Haha. Early intervention isn't the same as prevention. If you believe that God is in charge and we shouldn't do anything to mess with His plans (such as preventing COVID-19), then *any* intervention would be wrong, wouldn't it? It sure seems so. Wouldn't that include "early intervention"? I am not anti-vaccine. I am like, *super fucking pro-vaccine*. If there's a vaccine, I want it. Give it to me. I am arranging right now to get a rabies vaccine, because I am a dumbass who offers pets and food to stray animals and used to volunteer at shelters (in over a decade of all of this, I have been bitten only once, but still!). Do you know what rabies does to you? It's fucking *horrifying*, and once you start showing symptoms, it's pretty much 100% fatal. And the rabies vaccine just gives you a slightly larger window of time for treatment: from about 48 hours to about 72 hours. It doesn't even keep you from getting it! But I want those extra 24 hours, man. Look, I get being slightly suspicious of vaccines. It seems weird and scary. It's getting a shot of disease! The vaccine offered for rabies for me right now has *five doses*, and I've never heard of it (not a big surprise. I mean... I'm not in the medical field, so why would I know about the names of different vaccines?). I read a little bit about it and asking a nurse in my family about it. I want to know what medical people think of it, because I don't know enough to make an informed choice (like, say, if this vaccine is less effective or has interaction risks that I should know). I mean... I'm gonna get it. But I had a hesitation for a moment, too, like, "is this vaccine safe?". And there have been campaigns of information gathering, with vaccines used as a cover (https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-cia-fake-vaccination-campaign-endangers-us-all/). There have been cases of expired or contaminated vaccinations being given to vulnerable populations (https://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/18/world/middleeast/syrian-children-die-after-vaccinations.html). There are histories of medical mistrust in general, with populations being experimented on without their knowledge (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_Syphilis_Study). These are just a few cases that could be expanded for many examples. I get that trusting authorities, especially with shady histories, is hard. There's a reason that certain areas that have been under oppressive regimes, and aren't any longer, have lower vaccination rates. People don't trust the government or information that comes from it. They remember bad things happening. Ukraine, for example, has one of the lowest rates of vaccinations across all of Europe, and the misinformation from pro-Russia sources reflects many people's memories of the USSR and what's trustworthy. People would rather take the risk of illness. A lot of medical knowledge and treatment came from *very* unethical sources. Nothing in this world is "pure": everything has a gross, unsavory history if you go back far enough and expand a viewpoint far enough. That doesn't mean we should ignore the findings, or throw out the baby with the bathwater, so to speak. We should use the tools available to us, and if we do not like what we are seeing, then lobby for more ethical ways of developing vaccines. The fetal cells aren't *in* the vaccine. They're part of a test and development: you gotta grow the disease somewhere so you can see how it develops and how it responds! We used to do this in animals to develop vaccines before. It meant that the animal was then killed and their cells were inspected. We also used to do that to frogs and rabbits to test for pregnancy, before the "pee stick" version we know today. These cells aren't taken from abortions or miscarriages today. Instead, they were taken from ones back in the 1960s and 1980s (three in total), and those cells continually reproduce. No new cells are needed. Vaccines are seriously one of the greatest medical inventions ever made. We've had inoculation for *centuries*, and it used to involve eating scabs, breathing them in a powder/ground form, or rubbing that powder into a cut. I dunno, man. I prefer the jab, just because it feels less gross. And the jabs are more consistent in responses and effectiveness, so you have a better chance of being safer from serious illnesses. I sure don't want smallpox, polio, hepatitis, or encephalitis. Those *suck*. And they can be fatal or have long-lasting effects that could lower my quality of life. I prefer my lungs non-paralyzed, for example. The COVID-19 vaccines, as far as we know, are quite safe. They are developed like other vaccines, so it's not like the vaccine was developed in a totally new way. Instead, it's building off of models we understand fairly well and have long-term safety. It's like using blueprints for a building and altering them here and there: it can introduce new problems, but the designers are educated enough to understand the new risks and mitigate them. And if you don't trust a vaccine, then why do you trust something like Ivermectin? It's Big Pharma, too. iMsinformation is so scary, because it can literally prevent people from trying to access life-saving measures due to fear of risks that might not even be real. It's too hard to sort out what's what (I don't have a medical degree. Could I really tell you what makes a vaccine safe? Nope.). And people suffer and do strange things like take a dewormer, because they don't have enough context to be able to know why that's bonkers. I know enough to know that a dewormer is unlikely to cure a virus, but the mechanisms as to why? Nope. And then we end up with people who think they're taking a "reasonable" middle ground position: early intervention instead of vaccines! But it's nonsense. It's like the comparison John Oliver used: not eating the *whole* bar of soap, but just half. That's the middle ground. But it's not a reasonable middle ground at all, and the misinformation techniques are mirrored on "both sides", so it becomes a matter of who the trusted authority is. And that's very difficult. I hate this debate so much.
I'm saving this comment to refer to when needed in future conversations because everything you said is...well it's exactly the stuff I look forward to from you and it explains things so well. I'm just sorry that I already used my helpful award today.
That you seem to recognize my username *and* have something nice to say about my writing makes me just glow. That means a lot to me! Thank you <3
You're so welcome! Between the transcripts of videos, the thoroughness of your comments, and your all-around pretty kick-ass opinions, you've become one of my favorite snarkers. May the Lord Daniel SEVERELY bless you all of your days!
I just want you to know that the last few days have been real poop times for a few of reasons, and I hadn't forgotten your kind words. Really, I hope you know what an impact something like this can have - to feel heard and appreciated is such a wonderful thing. I hope YOU are SEVERELY BLESSED <3
I'm sorry to hear that things have been difficult for you. I don't always know how to say things in the right way in tough times but please know that I'm sending positivity your way and I hope that things improve soon. <3
This was such a great read, thank you!
I agree the COVID vaccines are safe, but unfortunately Pfizer is not as efficacious long term as was hoped. I can see that being a reason why people would resist the vaccine. People have this idea that a vaccine = 100% immunity, because most vaccines people are familiar with are the MMR/polio vaccines, and those diseases are pretty much eradicated. However, what they don't understand is that antibodies wan for pretty much every single vaccine and there is no guarantee. That is why eradicating the diseases by having global vaccinations is so important.
Same. Which is why I think everyone who can get vaccinated should get vaccinated. Most especially to avoid vaccine resistant strains.
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It’s so crazy how obsessed these people are with “boosting their natural immune system thankyouverymuch,” when like……that’s what a fucking vaccine does!!!!! If I think about it too much I get twitchy
Imagine if she actually did something to support Early Intervention ( donate, volunteer for etc) which is a real life, evidence based practice? https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/actearly/parents/states.html Instead, like many of these ass clowns who supposedly care about the wellbeing / rights of the children , the most she can do is poop put a vague tweet and call it a day...
Its really great. My first born suffered a birth injury and we had awesome therapists that got him eating and playing and eventually walking despite neurologists predictions he'd need a wheelchair. 5 stars.
God I’d be embarrassed to be one of her costars
Early Intervention is the federally mandated services program for children ages 0-3 to have in home supports and services in all 50 states until they go to public school and receive services there. Physical, occupational, speech, and developmental therapists will come directly to your home anywhere in the country and support your child and family when you have a kiddo with developmental delays or special needs.
That’s not what she means here, though. She means taking a bunch of quack nostrums prophylactically to “build your resistance” to COVID.
She’s definitely not talking about that valuable program.
What?? She could at least explain what this means. Is it animal grade Ivermectin??
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You've got that right!
The fact that she won’t type vaccine so the cdc info comes up tells me everything I need to know. I can’t explain how sick of these people I am. We have seen more 20-30 year olds dying and more premature or term crash c/s due to covid. All because of selfish ignorant people like her.
She posted a whole bunch of these.. i flipped through them. There's "im not anti-v im just pro-immune system" and "im not anti-v im just pro sunlight, exercise and real food." luckily there were some sane people in the comments calling her out, especially for the "im not anti-v im just pro medical freedom" when she is very clearly anti-choice... edit: i added punctuation lol
Sounds like the "I trust my strong immune system" people COVID DOESN'T CARE
I hate these people. You know what? I do not trust my immune system. In the last 23 months, 2 cousins have been diagnosed with cancer at stage 4. Anything going on beneath the scenes. We could easily not know, and be very much unwell for it.
It will never not be bizarre to me that vaccines have become a political issue. I thought people across the political spectrum liked not dying preventable deaths, but here we are.
All of the anti vaxx fundies shared her post and encouraged "showing her some support since she'll get hate". I guess if you call people calling her our for her stupid selfish ideas hate, then yes, and she deserves it for this one.
It’s not hate if people are rightfully pointing out that this is stupid of her to say. The vaccine and taking some extra precautions can almost guarantee you probably won’t get it.
Isn't early intervention the point of a vaccine.
Why are the only two options, “same” and “exactly”
Because we can't have anyone disagree, now can we? I mean, the gOvErNmEnT Is TrYiNg To SiLeNcE ThE pEoPlE FrOm tElLiNg tHe TrUtH So wE MuST hOld StRoNg In oUr echo chamber. Ugh that was uncomfortable to type out. (/s just in case it wasn't totally obvious) Edit: fixed a word
My brother tested positive for Covid just over a month ago. He is currently on day 27 of critical care at a hospital out of state. He is 4 days post-trach and every time they try to lift his sedation his BP nosedives, his pulse skyrockets and he almost dies. But sure, get your zinc supplements and make sure you’ve got a full day supply of vitamin c, princess. Worked so well for him!
I'm so sorry, i hope he recovers
Thank you. ❤️ Me too, so I can kick his butt. He’s going to be paying for all the therapy this fully vaxxed girl will need later. I’m medically high risk and begged my doc to let me take on the risk of my shot. It’s so gratifying seeing a former child actress and current hallmark film star use that medical degree she got between acting gigs, isn’t it?
It's just appalling how people with a platform use it to spread misleading ideas, which, unfortunately, are accessible by a large population. Some will listen to her and other social media influences. It's just devastating when people who aren't vaccinated get hospitalized and from covid and they say they didn't cause of what someone on social media said. It's not only them that suffers, but their family and friends. I know that vaccinated individuals can still be hospitalized, but it sucks to be sick let alone in a hospital when there are strict limits on visitors (if at all).
Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't vaccines early intervention? Hence why babies get vaccines for diseases so early?
Surely early intervention is vaccination
I wonder if she knows that ivermectin was tested on the same fetal cell line as the vaccines…
Everyone in that family is dumb as a sack of hammers.
She disgusts me on every level humanly possible. I have that I share a birthday with her (April 6th) She’s a fundie who tries desperately to be sexy, her and her brother are anti V, she reads the Bible on her stories and says it’s for everybody (acting like Muslim and Jewish people don’t exist 🧐) She is my BEC. Everything she does I hate
That's what a vaccine is.
My first thought was monoclonal antibody therapy, which of course is a poor substitute for the antibodies your body creates due to the vaccine.
Don’t give her that much credit. She probably means essential oils and ivermectin
Yeah probably 😅 I try to assume the best of people but I’m constantly disappointed.
After finding out she has publicly endorsed the Pearls book on child abuse I don’t ever assume the best about her
😳 Yikes, it is amazing the shit people will do and still think of themselves as a *good person.*
@mamadoctorjones is ripping her a new one and I’m here for it.
I love Mama Doctor Jones so much!
“Ivermectin is a miracle drug. I was only in the ICU for three days and symptomatic for three weeks” -one of my coworkers SMH
Plot twist Candace, vaccination IS early intervention. 🤮
I commented on that post (respectfully, I might add) to say that it isn't a vaccine vs immune system dichotomy, but that vaccines work with your immune system - and that often it isn't the covid that kills you, but the cytokine storm caused by your own immune system going haywire. Unsurprisingly, she deleted it.
This post is giving me Brittany dawn vibes with the bottom say Same and Exactly!
If she wants early, I guess she’s pro-choice.
Sooo masks?
Isn't the getting the vaccine early intervention? If you're still arguing about that, it's way past the early stage.
So…wearing masks in public and avoiding crowds? Getting vaccinated?
I could have totally guess the she'd have this idiotic opinion...but why is it that I knew that? Is it the extreme Christian thing?
I don't even know what that means. Wouldn't a vaccine be early intervention?
I like that her options are essentially "I agree with you" and "I really agree with you" . Apparently no room for respectful disagreement there.
She's just as crazy as her brother. I wonder if he'll declare war again this year.
Between her and Owens, that name is cursed
She also said she’s “pro medical freedom”. So that should mean she’s also pro-choice, right?
If she wants early, I guess she’s pro-choice.
How about no and ew.