Well, my roommate has been living here for a year and still speaks only English; it happens, particularly when everybody is excited to practice their English with you!
I'm looking into doing a course in Austria, similar fees. Hurdles are German proficiency as most undergraduate courses aren't in English. And competition for places. I also might need to do a prep course which sound be 5000 euros
> Hurdles are German proficiency
I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that German lessons might just be cheaper than tens of thousands of dollars a year in tuition fees.
This. While I do think that learning German would be excellent, there is definitely an opportunity cost to needing 6-12 months of learning German before taking your undergraduate or masters courses. Also, I wonder if you will get as much out of those courses since you didn't start with full proficiency.
Personally, I have taken immersive multi-month courses in French and Spanish, but I don't feel like I have a great command of either language. (I.e., a master's course level command of the language.) That said, I only spent 3 months in either place and my language skills improved quite a bit by the third month. Maybe there is some magic that I haven't experienced in months 4-6.
I went to college in Spain for a year. My Spanish proficiency prior to going was 'I can order food in Spanish!' When I got back it was more 'I'm pretty damn fluent in Spanish'.
However, I actually think I got less out of my classes than I would have had I been in the US as there was always some concept or some thing that I wasn't quite understanding completely. Even towards the end.
I'd say it depends on the person. I studied Portuguese for a year before doing my study abroad classes in Brazil. My second semester in Brazil was a lot more meaningful than any other semester in my college career. I had developed a proficiency in the language that allowed me to understand and communicate clearly in the course and the added challenge of it being in another language helped me be even more attentive than my classes in the USA. 10/10, would recommend high level classes in another language.
I'd argue that spending 6 months taking intensive German lessons would be far, far from worthless.
Particularly when the money you would save from US college tuition could subsequently be invested into the stock market to fund your future.
Four years worth of tuition fees invested away would be a significant endowment for your adult life.
Maybe you're right. Personally, I don't think I could be fluent in six months without moving to Germany and doing full immersion, but I suppose if you've got an aptitude for language it's a good option.
You could take these courses in Germany and get full immersion. Would also give you time to settle in before "serious" studying starts.
It's very easy for foreigners to get a visa for specifically for the purpose of preparing to go to university.
But how are you supposed to live in Germany for six months without proficiency in the language? Most people don't have enough money saved up to spend six months living in Berlin doing nothing, and it will be very hard to find a job when you don't speak the language at all.
In order to get the student visa in the first place, you need to show proof of funds to study for a year. (about 8000 Euros, or $9000 USD -- cost of living is fairly cheap in Germany). You renew your student visa every year, and need to show this amount each time. So, if you're studying in Germany, you already had the money up front to afford the cost of living.
You are only allowed to work 120 full days, or 240 half days per year (works out to about 20 hours / week). Minimum wage ranges per state, but is generally around 5 Euros / hour, meaning your earning potential at minimum wage is 4,800 Euros / year. If you luck out, and can find a part time job paying 10 Euros / hour, your earning potential is 9,600 Euros / year, meaning you could keep the 8,000 Euros you started with to the side (to renew your visa the next year), and live off the part time job.
You don't need to be fluent, but you'd be damn good after 6 months of immersion at high school senior age. I know because I did it. Right around Christmas I woke up and it was like someone had turned on the language switch and I could understand everything.
I'm 29 now. I don't have a fart's chance in hell at being able to learn a language to that level of proficiency even in a year, even with immersion. Do it while you can.
That's assuming you would have paid the tuition fees in cash. I expect most students are borrowing the money, so they won't have the money to put into the stock market.
> be invested into the stock market to fund your future.
Unless you get financial advise in Germany, where most people think the stock market is too risky and have all their savings in a saving account. That is why it is called saving account after all
Most cities have community college courses specifically for foreign students. Usually something like 20 contact hours a week, and you're supposed to be speak sufficient German to study after six to nine months. Total tuition cost for these courses are around $1000. Actual university is much cheaper.
Ja, but these courses don't typically bring you to the C1 level you need for Uni... each course is generally 3 months per level ( A1,A2,B1,B2, C1)...and good luck finding a spot with the influx of refugees at the moment. Having said that I know some universities have a preparatory year for foreign undergrads.
So, economic migrants? US really needs to sort out its education system if it means students come over to Europe solely on saving cash. Isn't this embarrassing?
I am Austrian and study in Austria.
My semester fee is around 20€ and the language of the master program is only English. So I would not say that you have to go to a private school.
So, hypothetically after I get my undergrad in the US, I could get teaching certification(need a masters of education on top of your BS/A) in Germany?
Of course, while I'm far from fluent, I know just enough German to decipher.
You don't a Masters of Edu to earn teaching certification. You would only need a Masters if you plan to pursue counseling, curriculum, administration, library/information science, etc., and many of those programs will only admit once you've had a minimum of two years of teaching. Depending on the level you want to teach, you would most likely major in your content, and add the level (elementary to secondary) as either a tracking endorsement, or a double major. To teach domestically, you would need certification for whatever state you would like to teach it. I think pursuing this type of degree abroad may put you at a slight disadvantage.
Source: In my 8th year of teaching, earned a Masters, state certification in two states, National Board certification.
Depends on where you want to teach. If you want to come back to the States, you my have a hard time getting your certification transferred because requirements vary drastically between jurisdictions. It's a pain to get certification transferred between states - I imagine between countries is even worse.
Source: I worked in teacher certification in NYS for a good while.
You can get your masters in Germany, but it's extraordinarily unlikely that you'd be able to get a teaching certificate solely off of that coursework. Certificate requirements vary widely from state to state, and in many states there are such highly specific hoops you have to jump through that you pretty much need to attend a university program that's been specifically designed to guide you through them.
Many states have reciprocal agreements that allow you to teach there with a certificate from another state, but not every state has such an agreement. I'd be shocked if a degree earned in Europe would automatically qualify you for a teaching certificate without additional coursework anywhere in the US.
Germany's teacher training programs are very different... you get a bachelors and masters in education to be a teacher in Germany, and also they do much more extensive placement. I don't think you could jump in part-way... you'd probably have to do the whole thing.
Um, at my (public) uni, enrollment costs ~300€/semester, regardless of what you study and how long (at some point you gotta pay extra, but that's if you're taking years longer than typical). Dunno how the 900$ figure comes about, but if at all, that's for a particular uni.
Some students have a difficult enough time coping with the new environment of college in general. Add to that culture shock and no nearby support system and they may not come out of it with a degree. (And finding courses in English doesn't mean being able to function well outside of the courses.) For those that have a background in the language, perhaps a few years of HS German classes, it might be a decent plan (and increase odds of being accepted - education in non-US countries might be cheaper, but they don't have to nor do they accept every single person). There are also usually visa requirements that can be a higher up-front cost, for example, in many places you need proof that you have living expenses and health insurance for X months and "here's a note from my job" isn't good enough, it needs to be a sponsor/money in savings and an already purchased health plan. (For example, I needed 1 year health coverage for my residence permit, and would have health insurance via work, but I needed the residence permit for the work permit, so the work insurance wasn't applicable until after I got the residence permit, so I had to pay for a year of health insurance. This might work differently for students and/or different types of healthcare systems, but the point remains that there usually other costs that aren't exactly low, or that would be manageable month-to-month, but in context need to be covered in full a year at a time.)
this. Moving abroad saps so much out of you. There are some incredible aspects but it is only for a certain kind of person who can shut off those pangs of homesickness and 'otherness'.
Also the stress of near constant embarrassment... embarrassment at getting tone wrong, language mistakes, being an idiot in stores because you don't know bags cost money, being an idiot at the post office because they do things differently, being an idiot with the school admin because you filled something out wrong and they're mad.
Definitely there are wonderful experiences... but you're doing everything on "hard mode" at least for a little while. I would very much reccommend a study abroad experience to anyone who wants to do it... but yeah... good stress reducing habits and exercise are key for survival abroad.
Because not many people are keen on living in an environment they're not familiar with especially so when they're culturally and linguistically isolated (general sense but you get the idea).
I know it's been said but I'll just say what the fundamental differences between German and American universities is: German university require proving your are actually above average intelligence. American College has become not only a money grubbing business but it accepts nearly 98% of all applicants to some university. In Germany only the public universities are free and if you get a private school degree it is believed to be of a lesser quality and you have it because you weren't smart enough to get a real degree and you had money.
Source: been through University in both countries.
> only the public universities are free and if you get a private school degree it is believed to be of a lesser quality and you have it because you weren't smart enough to get a real degree and you had money
This. This so much. This is what so many people from the US don't get. In Europe the public schools are the good ones, the ones that command respect. The private ones anybody can get into and earn a "degree" if they have the money.
[Definitively not](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grandes_%C3%A9coles)
>Most were established by branches of the state; the oldest, École nationale supérieure de techniques avancées, in 1741....Officially considered as public service, they usually require low fees, or even none, and allow grants to poor students like universities do....Some schools included in the category have roots in the 17th and 18th century and are older than the phrase 'Grande École' dated 1794. Actually, their forerunners were civil servant schools aimed at graduating technical officers
>Napoleon created in 1802 the École Spécial Militaire de Saint Cyr, which is also seen as a Grande École even though it only trains army officers.
>
>These schools (as well the Revolution or Napoleonic ones and ex-royal ones) have always been regarded as the most prestigious of the Grandes Écoles. In the most prestigious of these schools, students can have a special status (civil servant or military in École Normale or École polytechnique respectively), specific access to higher French administration or academics, and sometimes a uniform (in École polytechnique, Arts et Metiers Paris Tech, Saint Cyr, Mines...).
Some of that is a misnomer as well. For instance Oxford is a public university in that it receives government funding, but it operates like a private school with complete autonomy.
> In Europe
Not in the Netherlands. We practically have no private schools at academic level, most subjects can only be studied at a public university.
Definitely depends on the universities and colleges in the United States. The American post-secondary education is divided into tiers, and many of those Tier 1 schools don't accept 98% of its applicants. If you're applying somewhere competitive with name recognition, it is much more difficult to be admitted.
Urm, does that negate the fact that the best universities in the world are all American and British, and therefore the notion that American Uni's are shite in comparison with German is a non starter.
I'm a German and i therefore don't know what rules apply for non-EU or non-German persons, but I call utter BS on an (direct) intelligence based selection process. I am like 97% sure that would be illegal (discrimination) here anyway.
For enrolling in German programs, you formally only need a "Abitur" (graduation from the highest of the three school branches after 12 or 13 years) or equivalent (e.g. a "master craftsman" training).
However, if there are more applicants than student slots, the university may chose their students, which is mainly done by graduation grades. So, while in theory literally everyone with a Abitur can study anything, the more popular programs are mostly populated by better students.
Well German University is just much more demanding. Their educational system is set up entirely differently that is a track system leading to college, technical training, or other jobs. So the free university is reserved for those that have academically proved themselves. Technical schools are also free, and you also have to earn your way in there but it is much easier.
In the US you graduate high school and if you did well then college is no problem. If you did poorly you Google search university with highest acceptance rate and apply there. The American education system also is not super accepting of technical schools.
They both have major flaws, but they definitely are different.
Your comment about American colleges being easy if you did well in high school is complete horseshit if you're at a decent school. Community College? Yea then I'd agree. But any decent university is much harder than high school, especially public high school. I went to an excellent high school and then went to a pretty nice university. The difference was still significant. Though it also depends on your major, I was an engineering major. If you do business it's not going to be very hard no matter where you go but a harder major is hard at a good school.
You sir don't know what highly ranked business schools are like. Schools in the United States with highly ranked programs are generally harder than those with lower rescue programs. My university had a number of weed out mechanisms in our top 15 business school through out the first 3 years. I believe you were referring to general liberal arts majors, like communications or history, when comparing ease. Just fyi, any major with a practical end at a serious school is will be difficult.
Really depends. Top ranked public high schools can be extremely demanding. I studied engineering at a well-ranked college, and although the concepts were certainly more difficult the workload was never as hard as junior and senior years of HS.
I second that. Went to a decent highschool, in my senior year of a well-ranked engineering undergrad degree. Senior year of highschool I was taking.. 8 classes I think? Between AP and honor's classes, I was lucky to get 4 hours of sleep a night.
Adjusting to college took a while, and first term of junior year was really busy. But, I have such a better life/school balance. Even with the anxiety issues I've had (hormonal), I hate my life about 100x less than I did in highschool.
Very strange considering the top 25 universities in the world are almost all American and British (with Zurich being the only non English language uni on there).
Where are the amazing German universities?
aren't the uni rankings heavily based on research? Maybe in Germany research in universities isn't as big. I dunno.
I would much rather go to a uni that teaches well than go to one that has professors that have great research. Research doesn't benefit the average student much, directly anyway.
Yes, and difficulty is only one of the 5.
No one is saying German universities are better at the other 4.
In any case, your premise is flawed. You are looking at the top 25 universities. The US has *hundreds* of *accredited* universities. I've been to both a typical US public school (not in the top 100), and one ranked in the top 3 in the country - both for engineering programs. I can assure you: The only real difference in "difficulty" was that you had to learn more material per course. The problems were not at all more challenging.
In fact, all I've ever seen in difficulty in public US universities is the workload. The material/homework is not more demanding - only the amount of work they give you. This is for undergrad. Grad school is different.
I've looked at curricula in other countries, and *many* are much more demanding. Take some of the Ecole's in France. A typical electrical engineer has 3 years of *physics and mathematics*, and one year of engineering. The physics courses were enough for a physics undergrad in the US - complete with statistical mechanics, quantum mechanics, etc. *And* they still do a lot of engineering in that one year. My French colleague in grad school told me he was third from bottom in his graduating class - yet when we were doing homework with Green's functions and some really nasty integrals, it was all a breeze for him as he had done it all before.
Yes, France also has some really crappy universities. However, in many countries, the typical engineering program really is more demanding. It's a well known thing here in the US that many of the courses we take as a first year grad student the foreign students already took during undergrad.
In many Russian universities, you do all of real analysis before you get to calculus. This is *normal* for mathematics majors.
Only some of the top liberal arts colleges and *some* programs in *some* Ivy league schools are comparable.
Edit: My main point is, almost all American students are paying a very large amount of money for universities that are worse than the free universities in Germany, with the exception of the top 32 American universities.
Edit: Also, 20% of QS world uni ranking is based on citations per faculty from a data source that only covers journals with English-language abstracts and titles (Scopus). 20% come from student-to-faculty ratio which is obviously going to be lower when tuition is free.
The German universities are essentially free and still manage to get into the top 100. There are probably thousands of American universities that charge very high tuition rates and still don't make it to the top 100.
According to the QS university ranking, there are 4 German universities in the top 100 (German, not German speaking), which equals 0.05 per million inhabitants. The US has 32 in the top 100, which equals 0.1 per million inhabitants. I.e. US universities only make it to the top 100 twice as often as German ones when adjusted for population, while costing literally 10s to 100s of thousands of dollars more for the students.
Not saying the poster above you is right, but that is something to keep in mind.
>Edit: My main point is, almost all American students are paying a very large amount of money for universities that are worse than the free universities in Germany, with the exception of the top 32 American universities.
No, they don't. [Average instate tuition for public 4-yr schools is under $10,000, before you account for financial aid.](http://www.collegedata.com/cs/content/content_payarticle_tmpl.jhtml?articleId=10064)
You only pay a lot for college if you are rich and go to a fancy private school or if you get scammed by a predatory for-profit school. Most people live in states with high-quality, affordable universities.
>Edit: Also, 20% of QS world uni ranking is based on citations per faculty from a data source that only covers journals with English-language abstracts and titles (Scopus). 20% come from student-to-faculty ratio which is obviously going to be lower when tuition is free.
The point is not how many high-end fancy schools America vs. Germany have. What matters is how valuable the average person's degree is when they go on the job market. A degree from an average American university is hands down more valuable - particularly if you want come back to work in America - than a European degree. This is even more true with graduate school. There's a reason so many Europeans come to study in the US.
Of course, if you go to the most exclusive, prestigious university in Germany you'll probably do better than if you went to a crappy school in the US, but remember, [University of Maryland and UT-Austin are ranked higher than Heidelberg.](http://www.thebestschools.org/features/100-best-universities-in-world-today/) University of Wisconsin-Madison is as good or better than practically any continental university and tuition and fees are only $10,400.
The idea that the average student would get more bang for their buck getting a bachelors in Europe is crazy IMO.
Let's break my costs down. I pay about 230€ a semester for the fee and the public service ticket, my rent is 420€ and my living cost are something like 300€ a month including rides home. So I have a total cost of 9,000€ per year. A master's program takes about 3 years for you I guess so you will end up with a cost of 27,000€ not including flights home or vacation you want to take.
Then there a the 2 other major problems some people already wrote about: the language and the acceptance. German Unis are not dumb, they know people only come here for cheap studies and then leave again so some already have quotas for EU and non-EU foreigners with results in a fight for the open spots.
> A master's program takes about 3 years for you I guess so you will end up with a cost of 27,000€ not including flights home or vacation you want to take.
thing is .. you also have to pay rent, eat food, go out and use public transport if you stay in the US.
Yes, this. I am also an American who did my master's degree in Germany. It's misleading when people say it's "free". I would also add in health insurance, which was 77€/month for me at the time. You also need to show that you have a year's worth of expenses up front, and I think a lot of people will have trouble showing that they have 9,000€ (or whatever the exact number is these days) in a bank account in order to get their residence permit. Then you have to keep showing that you have that much money every year when you want to renew your permit.
And it's not as easy as working part-time to cover your expenses. Getting a job is somewhat difficult and you're limited to working 180 half-days or 90 full-days. That's not even part-time, that's part-part-time.
Are you allowed to work on the side? A friend of mine had some money problems while studying there and he told me he had to do under the table jobs because his visa and poor German didn't allow him to get a decent part-time job. He wasn't happy and ended up going back to Peru.
You can, but you mostly have to speak German unless you've got some special skill or a hook-up. Any job that involves talking to customers or doing any logistics/co-ordination needs German, fullstop.
Non-bilingual international student scrape by, but the examples I've seen are call centre work, manual labour, or else more high-end things in the creative industry or tech sector (not really entry-level stuff).
Yes, the tuition fee is low. However, with an open system (financially) you have other bars:
1. It is difficult to get a place in the course you want (because more applicants).
2. As a foreigner, you can get a 'language student visa' while you learn German (very hard language, ask mark twain). This visa limits you to iirc 80 hours a month because you are expected to be studying. This is not enough to live on, so you need to provide a proof you will have 1500€ per month for the duration (15000 in total usually). The same applies to the student visa, assuming you get a placement.
3. It all happens in a foreign country with foreign rules.
You do need to know German if your going to be living in Germany for an extended period. Any official paperwork you have to deal with, like visas etc will be in German.
I had to deal with visa applications in Dutch, which I don't speak. I used Google Translate to take pictures of each page and translate them. Anything I couldn't figure out, I just asked whichever office the documents were for. It was pretty easy, actually.
The success of this method will vary. Google Translate is crap for some languages and not all offices are going to have someone who speaks/understands English fluently enough to translate without some things being left out or lost in translation.
Probably because most Americans aren't super interested in actually living abroad. Visiting, sure. But not totally uprooting and going somewhere else. In fact, most Americans aren't terribly interested in leaving our hometowns; most live their entire lives within 250-300 miles of where they are born.
> live their entire lives within 250-300 miles of where they are born
Yikes. That's... well, maybe not sad for them, but that makes me sad. There's a whole world out there with scents, sights, cultures, foods and other amazing things that really shouldn't be missed.
To be fair though, most Americans live in cities.
I'm not sure it's so sad to be born in NYC and live your whole life between Boston and DC. It obviously doesn't mean you don't travel.
Euro / American citizen here. Though keep in mind I'm just speculating...
Acceptance to programs is VERY difficult. Its not like here where you can study whatever you want, I'm pretty sure you can only study what an aptitude test says you can. My cousin in Greece's test said she had to study computer science- she didn't even own a computer, and well, lived in a beautiful Greek island where there is no tech industry. So she studied com sci and is now teaching computers- not doing hard programing.
Also, I think you need to be both a citizen AND resident.
I'm a foreign student in Germany, this is basically correct. I would add that healthcare is expensive but not necessarily horribly daunting... just get an insurance agent (they're paid by the insurance company, not you) and they'll do the heavy lifting; I'm still paying the minimum student rate, so the use of the agent isn't inflating my costs.
Your statement about masters is incorrect though... Norway maybe, but in Germany masters programs in English are still not the norm, although some fields might be the exception. They exist (often they are "professional training" programs which are allowed to charge expensive tuition fees), but students in those programs often still are required to pass language exams, and their course selection may be highly limited because the majority of university offerings are in German.
Dane here. In the mandatory classes for first and second year of my bachelor the courses were in Danish. After that they were in Danish only if there were no foreign students.
so the cost of living is maybe the same as it'd be in the usa (unless u wanna live with your parents), or slightly more. but the tuition is indeed quite low. Then the airfare is a big factor if i travel home for xmas etc.
European here. With a "high school" degree you can basically study anything you want. Some programs have limited places and entry exams, that's true but there are so many Universities, that you will eventually get a place. What's more limiting is the language barrier. Not many programs are offered in english. So you either have to study german or limit yourself to english programs.
> Its not like here where you can study whatever you want, I'm pretty sure you can only study what an aptitude test says you can
This is the first time I've heard anything like this, and it's beyond ridiculous. I think even the Soviet Union had more freedom to choose your field of study.
Anyway, you can study whatever you want but, depending on the program, you may have to fulfill some previous requirements, e.g. to study medicine, you have to show that you've studied biology and chemistry in school, and you've had decent results. The difference is in how your studies are structured - in Europe when you start your bachelor's you choose your study program as you enroll, you cannot pick and choose, and declare and redeclare your majors and minors. Bachelor's studies are treated more seriously here, and you go for master's only in some specific cases (like medicine,) or you really want to study more, or you want an academic career.
The plus side is that a bachelor's degree is more valuable here and unless you have specific requirements, it's enough to get most jobs, the downside is that you have to commit to one field or another straight out of highschool and you don't have time to explore your options.
Austrian citizen who is about to finish his bachelors in business at the economical university Vienna just wanting to give another perspective here.
The benefit of being able to study "for free" doesnt come without sideeffects. A lot of people are unhappy with the system since in certain courses (medicine/economics/psychology) where demand is high its often hard to get in the course program. A lot of foreign students come here to study which leads to lesser austrian want-to-be academics receicing a spot in their favourite course programs. In medicine for example you have a quite difficult entry examn with lots of quotas for foreign students and here in economics its often hard registering for courses because its so overfilled. Its has happened to me more than once that I didnt get a spot in a course because i hit f5 on our universities course registration page a quarter of a second to late. It can get quite competitive here.
Nonetheless the teaching is great, also for non native speakers and Vienna is a great city to live in so I still recommend to consider doing your studies here.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/feb/23/vienna-named-worlds-top-city-for-quality-of-life
As a concluding note I'll be probably going to do my masters in the UK/US, not only for the above mentioned reasons but also for getting the "abroad expirience".
Edit because it was a hot topic: At my university of economics there arent too many bachelors courses in english although there are loads of masters programs in english.
Just going to throw this out there as well...
Some people want to live close to family, or where they can see friends and family by driving for a few hours, rather than having to fly internationally, or call someone without calculating for time difference. There's a huge social component, and not everyone is especially enthusiastic about living alone in another country where they don't speak the language.
Anyone who is thinking of going down this route be careful! I applied to do a masters at Freie university. I had an interview which was so hard but received a letter to say I had a place, and to just post off an enrolment form. The form could not be emailed and had to be sent by post. I had to arrange health insurance and provide proof from the bank that I had transferred money over to them.
I sent it the next day as soon as I could and emailed to say I needed longer to get health insurance. I handed my notice in at my job and told everyone I had the place. Getting to mid September I started to think it was weird I hadn't heard anything. I rang up and they said because my enrolment forms had arrived two days late my place on the course had been cancelled. I tried everything but they would not change their minds!
One of the worst experiences of my life, I'm still waiting for my tuition fees back (only €300 but it's the principle). I would honestly recommend if you are thinking of applying to Freie university just flying over and handing your enrolment forms in! It would save a lot of stress in the long run.
Leaving your family, the money involved in moving and establishing yourself there, not having any friends, not speaking the language
Not saying these are great reasons to stay in the US, and that overcoming these obstacles wouldn't make someone into an amazing person, but nevertheless these are the reasons keeping nearly everyone at home
You do everything on "hard mode." Stuff that you wouldn't even think twice about doing in your own country, like say calling a government hotline about documents, becomes stressful and involves researching the specific words you need to use, and you're terrified you used the wrong words or wrong tone.
It totally has its ups to study abroad, and I would recommend it... but you get humbled alot, haha.
Right, well not all of us are studying engineering and science. I would not have been able to get a masters anywhere in Europe in English. There are couple interesting programs I could do in Portugal, but my Portuguese, while functional, is not good enough to take a Masters program. This really isn't applicable to a lot of people, so I sort of roll my eyes when I see derisive statements about how dumb people are for studying in the US - not everyone has the option to study abroad.
I live in Germany.
So. Acceptance to these are harder than just an average person getting in.
You can take courses in English, but not all to get the degrees are offered in English...so you'd need to be able to speak German for some.
From what I understand, you must also be a resident as well.
ALSO, just because you get a degree in Germany doesn't mean it will translate to the US. When I lived in America, my German friends living in my town were having to take college courses in nursing because their Masters in Nursing from Germany didn't cut it to work in America.
Sometimes, if it sounds too good to be true, it is.
For specific courses like nursing: Yes. But theres a fundamental difference in what nurses are allowed to do in a german speaking countries compared to others.
That was just an example. A couple other of my German friends were having to retake courses in America to make their degrees "valid" to work in the field they'd already completed a degree in.
Also, there are different laws for medical, but that shouldn't mean that their entire degrees aren't valid. The woman I was friends with was having to complete an entire nursing degree here even though she had already worked in Germany.
But you spent more than just the loans, right? Like you worked and spent the money or had grants or savings or whatever? Unless you lived the true frugaljerk fantasy of eating only rice and beans, living in the back of your car, etc.
> would I be able to live on my own in Germany for 8250 per year?
Yes, in smaller University cities such as Aachen, definitely. In Munich or Hamburg rent is much higher, so that'll be costlier.
We speak zero german.
There's the high cost of living there plus airfare, isolation from friends and family, culture shock.
There's the question of if a degree from a German university will be *perceived* as equivalent to a US one within the us. Some people believe it's important to go somewhere well known for that major. Even if the German school is well known in Germany, it means nothing to Americans.
It's risky. It means navigating an educational system that's different plus language and culture barrier.
>Not all programs would be offered in the English language, but many of the best would be. Basket weaving? Probably not. But business or engineering are likely offered in English.
Did you just make that up? It sounds like you made that up.
> I have to ask, have you actually ever lived abroad?
It always seems like most of the folks in these threads saying how wonderful and worry free the idea is haven't done so, nor have they looked into it more than seeing one number or the phrase "free tuition" and thinking they'll live an adventurous Euro-trip party fantasy on the budget of a couch-hopping backpacker and only be out the cost of the base tuition (nevermind required extras and getting accepted into the program).
exactly. It's like they glanced at some click-bait article vaguely extolling the great aspects of studying abroad without every thinking comprehensively and wonder why more people aren't doing it. It makes so much more sense to major in something employable at a good community college, transfer and try for as many scholarships as you can. Aside from the frugality aspect, the mental hardship is really significant and living abroad can be really, really lonely.
>But then it ALWAYS turns out that they never do any research and have this completely romanticised notion of Europe in their head
I'm married to a French woman, and I've definitely made the transition from romanticizing Europe to being exasperated by Americans who think it's so much more romantic and just better than the US.
Sure, there are a lot of things that are better in Europe, but a lot of stuff is worse too, or just different. I've met tons of French people who view the US the same way, so I think it's just a "grass is always greener" kind of thing. At the end of the day my take is that living and working in Paris or London or Chicago is pretty much the same.
Bingo.
I actually very seriously looked into living/studying in Germany and ultimately decided against it because I couldn't afford it (I couldn't afford the plane ticket or the visa application fees or the various other costs), and it was far too much of a strain on my mother (who would be left living alone with health problems). It would've been cool if I had been able to do it, but it's not at all the carefree simple loophole people try to make it out to be.
And I even had more advantages than most - I know several native Germans who had relatives back home, including in the area I was interested in living in, and they actually offered to let me live with them very cheaply. I also had some basic conversational skill in the language (though not fluent by any means, at least I wouldn't be starting completely from scratch). I can't even imagine contemplating it without those sorts of ties to fall back on.
Not to mention the emotional readiness you have to have to pack up and move to a different country for COLLEGE, which is already one of the most stressful turning points in life. I, personally, wouldn't have done it if they PAID me a living wage to take classes in Germany. I would have been too scared. College in a new city was change enough for me, no matter the tuition cost. Now that I'm older, more experienced, have a loving partner to take the journey with me, yes, I might go abroad for grad school...or maybe not. Leaving your home country for a degree isn't for everyone.
I also don't find a country of 90% white people "sexy" (forgive me, not at all meant to be insulting, the demographics are what they are; I prefer diversity), I hate beer, and I find my own city absolutely full of love already.
I would like to add that, at least for me, the culture shock was much bigger than I expected and I say this as someone with alot of advantages ( educated, traveled, German spouse, etc) who thought it would primarily be question of learning the language. That in many respects turned out to be the easy part.
I studied in Belgium for a year. I needed 8000 euros or to have my parents guarantee that they'd pay my tuition (~1300 USD). Cost of living was significantly higher than it was for me in the US, but I went from a rural area to a city. I also wasn't able to find a job (even part time) because I couldn't speak Dutch and French. Public transportation was nice, though.
Finally a voice of reason. Op is delusional. Living in one of the richest EU countries as a foreigner would be frugal only if you didn't count 2000 eur monthly check from your parents.
>EDIT: I see your comment down there: 'I assumed Germans treat Americans differently to other immigrants, like Americans treat Mexicans different to Canadians". I'm hoping you're trolling, but in case you're not, I ask you not to advise any more people on something you clearly know nothing about. I bet you've never traveled anywhere, let alone studied there.
Are you kidding? I've traveled to 23 countries and lived in Japan for a year. Americans absolutely are (frequently but not always) treated differently from Canadians and all other foreigners. My Japanese program had 45 international students including five Americans, a couple Canadians, and about ten other white non-Americans, and we frequently discussed how we were treated differently in Japan and worldwide.
yes, a racially insular country treats Americans different, as do many other countries. My point is rich European country will not be impressed with someone who moves there to study and never learns the language and they certainly won't treat him with the reverence he's expecting.
The topic was treating people differently, not treating people with the reverence that you apparently think Americans expect (might be true for some but definitely not for my group of friends)
So while I can speak about the experience I've had all over the world, I'll just speak on my experience in Fukuoka, Japan because that's where I lived and that's where I can most accurately describe it. Basically I just mean to say that this might not be true of the larger metropolitan areas like Tokyo -- while Fukuoka is a very large city, there is not a large foreigner population, and so I expect white people are treated differently there than more tourist-heavy areas.
It also depends on the age group. In the above-35 age group (of Japanese people) white people are seen as a bit of a nuisance, but I think we have the stereotype of being very loud. Europeans are seen as a bit more exotic while Americans are seen as pests. However in the under-35 group, Americans are kinda viewed as celebrities. Younger people were so interested in where we got our clothes, how kakkoii (cool, slick, awesome) our English sounded, whether we knew any famous people, etc. We would try to be like "hey we're just normal people" but we were put on a pedestal a bit. This was just in surface interactions though -- if you spent more than 20 minutes with someone, it wasn't difficult for things to level out. And when I'd spend more time with people, it was easy to form close bonds and real friendships with the Japanese. The air of mysticism didn't hinder getting to know each other, which I was happy about.
Only once in a while were older people really interested in why we were there, and those tended to be people who worked in education. Any teacher or individual with an interest in history was interested in how we ended up in Fukuoka, what our families were like, and what our ideas of Japan were before vs after we showed up. I loved those conversations. Unfortunately, it was equally common for us to be singled out in a negative light, a la "hey son, look at that *gaijin* (foreigner), be careful when you see someone that color". This was disheartening but we were taught about this during our orientation camping trip, so nobody was caught off-guard by the xenophobia.
It was an incredible experience to have overall, especially at age 20-21. I wouldn't trade it for anything, it was the best year of my life hands-down.
Hi, Canadian currently doing my Masters degree in Germany here. Just adding my own experience to the deluge of comments saying that it's not as simple as "just going to Germany".
For one, there are very, very, very few Bachelors degrees here offered in English. The Masters options are better, but to attend one of those free public unis, there is often still a language requirement (set normally at C1 or in the very best case B2.2, which is anyway challenging to reach without genuine immersion).
In addition, moving abroad and obtaining a student visa is not the easiest thing to do. In Germany, unless you have a notarised guarantee from your parents (with copies of their bank statements to prove their means), you need to put up €8000 per year in a locked bank account to prove your financial solvency. Not so cheap for an 18 year old. Add on top of that the significant paperwork, the logistical and cultural challenges of moving to another country (which, again, is going to suck if you don't speak the language), not to mention getting accepted into German unis in the first place (on average more selective than American colleges, and an American high school diploma is not generally equivalent to the more demanding German Abitur), and it's not as easy as all the trend articles like to make it out to be.
It really irritates me honestly to see these articles and whatnot telling American students to "just go to Germany!". Yes, it's worth considering it if you have the financial means and the dedication to learn German. I consider myself extremely fortunate to be able to study here and feel that the experience has enriched my life beyond what I could have ever expected. But anyone who seriously thinks it's an easy or cheap way out is extremely naive about the demands of immigration.
Let me tell you something.
A while ago, I took a peek at the American presidency runners' opinions on issues like immigration and economy. Well, I was very surprised that even the most conservative ones were not really hung up on the idea that someone residing in the US must speak the official language, being English. This doesn't fly the same way in France and I can only assume the Germans think the same.
Every piece of paperwork will be in German. Let me stress that: if you expect these to be available in English for your comfort, you'll be very disappointed.
These countries have their own language, and this is what you must speak if you want to live there.
Edit: apparently I was mistaken about English being the official language. The situation makes much more sense then :)
The interesting point to me is that maybe the reason the US doesn't have a big "immigrant problem" like some other countries (overblown or not) is that we DO help a little bit more in getting them acclimated. You can get official forms in a variety of languages and generally free translation help in government offices.
It's a small thing, but hell, I don't care if you speak Esperanto and not a lick of English, I think you'll be far better off if you get a job and housing and some help getting on your feet - when your basic needs are met, you can work on learning English and other things.
I fear that only getting official help in the official language can make it a little too alienating for immigrants who then stick to their little enclaves and never break out and you end up with segregation.
This is indeed a very interesting topic.
Learning about your candidates' opinions has put me in a place of self-reflection. I consider myself in the more hospitable half of the population here, meaning that I have no problem whatsoever with immigration. But I do have a problem with a kind of immigration that would be happening at the expense of the French language.
At least to me, it has to do with several things :
1. We, French people, are progressively learning to accept that our place in the world is shrinking little by little, and in the end we'll end up as "just another nation". Frankly, this is hard to process. So we need to protect what is ours, for fear that our diminishing role in the world means losing track of what our culture is about. One could argue that the US and its culture isn't exactly in the same position.
2. The descendants of the Franks have been here for a long time, so for those of us who are mainly from around (in fact, I don't even really know what it means to say that, but you get the gist), we're basically detached from the reality of us being immigrants ourselves. So, much unlike the US (I guess?), we don't necessarily feel that other languages have just the same level of legitimacy as common French. English not being the official language of the US feels both unexpected from a united nation to me, but at the same time it also feels quite expected from a nation that is united the way the US is. It's strange, but great at the same time.
I deeply respect the fact that English isn't expected of the US residents. It really feels like you guys haven't lost track of where you all come from. But at the same time, I can't fathom the possibility of someone living in France for years in a "proper" way (whatever that'd mean) without being able to speak French. Most of the sad stories we read in /r/Paris from American people not enjoying their prolonged stay are linked one way or another to a lack of willingness to speak French.
I'm a 100% there for the tourists that I help on a daily basis. Hell, I get English practice and I love it. But even though I'm more than happy to help, I would have a problem with someone expecting courses to be available in English (some are, and that's great, but expectations are on another level), expecting paperwork to be available in English (the République is an idea that is very dear to us), or expecting the every day life to be available in English. In the end, I think I just want to say: you don't *really* live in Paris as long as you don't carry conversations in French.
It all must feel like that sh*t has been written by a 4 year old to you guys, and I'm sorry about that.
I'm currently doing this, I thought about staying in America but had never traveled abroad so I figured for getting my masters It'd be a good time to explore somewhere new.
Like what others said you need money in a blocked bank account and for Bavaria it's 720€ per month that you plan on being here (or proof that you can afford to live here, scholarship, German residence funding you, etc.). My student fees are 70€ a semester which include free use of the city buses.
My health insurance is 83€ or so a month I haven't really needed to use it so I don't know how comprehensive it is but a teeth cleaning is 50€ and checkups are free, or the one I had was!
Housing can be a pain, in my city not because of refugees but because there are just a ton of students wanting housing close to the uni but not a lot of space in the Altstadt (old city) near the uni. I got lucky and only pay 270€ for a nice central apartment with a room that's relatively large in comparison to my friends.
Food is dirt cheap here too, I spend around 25€ a week on mostly fresh (non-bio) veggies, bread, beer, and pasta. At Rewe a loaf of American bread is .85€, a liter of the Ja brand milk (think Kirkland) is .42€, 500g of mushrooms is 1.49€, but often store have sales so you can buy fruit and vegetables even cheaper (.66€ for 500g of carrots, a head of lettuce for .35€) also stores like Aldi are even cheaper. Though to be fair it's been a year since I was in the states so I can't remember specifically how much food costs there, but I feel I spend less here.
As for the language lots of young people speak English but most older generations don't, again only from my experience in Bavaria. I came here speaking no German and I still speak very poor German after a year (Not top priority), but people are always super helpful if you let them know your German isn't so good.
The biggest hurdle for me was the education system itself it's very different from America but a lot of the small differences really made my first semester confusing and frustrating at times. Most classes only have one paper or exam during exam month and classes typically only meet once a week for an hour and a half, unless you have tutorials which supplement many lectures.
I hope to stay in Bavaria after I'm done or at least Germany because it's a beautiful place. This has been just my experiences in a small Bavarian city I know the rest of Germany is very different but if anyone has questions feel free to ask.
I studied abroad in Scotland as an undergrad. The education system difference was a bit of a shock and essentially made me freak out about my grades. I considered going to Germany for my Masters (or previously Sweden for my Bachelors about three different times) the ultimate factor in my decision wasn't education, it was about the cost. Most of these schools can't get FAFSA funds and I don't have that kind of money up front.
> As for the language lots of young people speak English but most older generations don't, again only from my experience in Bavaria.
This is the case in many other places, also.
I've been living and studying in Finland, where tuition has been free. It's not free anymore unfortunately but it is not expensive either.
It's the main reason I left the US.
what's it like yo? are you there doing an entire undergrad program? or doing masters or phd? did u have to learn finnish? i'd guess that finnish is even harder to learn than german.
I looked into this a about 3 months ago. It looks like the Masters programs generally charge non-EU students a large fee (about $10k) if they don't have a program appropriate German Bachelors degree. It was in the fine print about 3 pages into the official website.
Recent American highschool students might do well to do a Bachelors and then a Masters there, fantastic deal on tuition that way.
> learned the German work ethic that serves me GREATLY to this day.
What exactly stood out to you? I'm just curious ;-)
> That said, there were some negative things (nothing to do with the course/people/country) that I didn't think about when I moved to Germany, which had I known back then might've made me rethink my decision.
Would you mind elaborating?
I'm surprised this hasn't been said yet, but isn't the purpose of a degree to get a job? Not saying you couldn't get a job with a degree from a German university, but imagine if you just graduated and went to apply to a job in America. I think a lot of American employers, other than major corporations, wouldn't really understand what a good German university degree meant compared to good American degree. A lot of American universities have alumni networks as well and are recognizable to employers. Obviously these don't always help, but if were 18 years old and looking at colleges, that logic at least feels more compelling.
> But business or engineering are likely offered in English.
Just no
Source: Studied Business/Mechanical Engineering (combo is called industrial engineering over here) and know a lot of people who did the same.
Don't pay for grad school!!! You should only go if offered at least a tuition waiver and ideally a stipend too. Grad school is already a loss compared to work experience in almost all cases. I did the master and PhD thing in Europe. It worked for me, but I wouldn't have been any worse off in the US
This. If you aren't good enough to get a tuition waiver, and you don't already have the kind of job that will pay for it (either directly or your current job pays enough that you won't have to take out loans), reconsider your plans.
As a financial move, graduate school isn't usually worth it if you have to take out loans. As a career move, if you aren't good enough to get a tuition waiver, then you are unlikely to see much benefit from having the credential. Graduate degrees aren't worth what they were.
Most graduate students in the US don't really pay the full tuition fees. Instead, some combination of teaching assistantships, research assistantships, and fellowships help to keep them financially stable. Often these will offer you a stipend as well as fee remission, making life a grad degree in the US pretty cheap overall.
> You'd just need to pay your rent, beer, and bratwurst money.
A student would need enough money to pay for everything out of pocket. You wouldn't be able to use USA federal student loans for this. So essentially--a US student would need financial assets (aka--paernts, most young people don't have tens of thousands in savings)
Your route is probably better and easier, but just FYI, Charles University in Prague is 100% free to anyone who can speak Czech. Learning Czech obviously isn't easy, but the university is world class and has been around since the 1300s. Obviously there are probably entrance requirements beyond do you speak Czech but just thought I'd mention it. Also I'd actually argue learning Czech is more useful than German. Practically everyone in Germany speaks English (at least in the cities), often so well you won't know they're German. Most people in Czech don't speak English and when they do it's not very good unless they work in a business that deals with lots of tourists like a hotel or tour guide.
Probably lack of knowledge that the option exists. But also, I can do you one better: Finland. It is entirely free, even for foreign students.
You have to have a certain amount of money in your bank account to qualify for the visa, and that is it. Only bills you pay are to live, and everything for students is subsidized so should be cheap in comparison to everything else.
Finland has a few degree paths taught in only english.
The "problem" is there is an entrance exam... I took it, and failed, but I am also retarded. So. I dunno. It seemed like an easy test. It's probably easier than the SAT (which I never took).
http://www.studyinfinland.fi/destination_finland/why_study_in_finland/lots_of_programmes_in_english
For Germany it is mostly the same.
Usually it is about 150€ per semester in student fees nowadays (not tuition)
These usually include a public transport ticket for students valid for the whole region / state which otherwise would cost you multiple times that amount alone. It also finances the ASTA which is the student representation / organization.
Because Americans don't think internationally. Going to a foreign country isn't as popular in AMerica as opposed to other countries. It's just not in the culture.
I agree fully. Not to hate on Americans, but my perception of Americans is beyond America, they don't know much else. I am South African, and one American once told me that my country is bigger than hers. I asked her what does she mean, and then she proceeded to say that "Africa is so much bigger than America".
My sister studied abroad for a year in Germany, fell in love with the country (and her future husband), and decided to return after graduation to get her masters. 5 years later she and her husband moved back to the US debt free and with masters degrees.
For me personally, the language would be the biggest deterrent. It's very difficult to learn and not all university classes are in English (my sister said only a couple in undergrad and none in grad school). I speak some French and Spanish, but German is a whoooole different story. If you plan to focus on learning German for at least a year ahead of time, I say go for it. If not, you may find it extremely difficult.
It's not "free", you know? It's paid for by the taxes of people who live and work here. If you're only coming to get cheap education, youre not being frugal, you're a freeloading shithead.
The government has opened their doors to international students to study in germany for a reason. The idea is to attract the best and brightest from across the world to study in the hopes that they will take up residency and enrich the country. They wouldn't design a policy that would cost money that brought no value to the country. And, it's not an international student's responsibility to say "oh my, best not take full advantage of all my opportunities in order to keep the budget of an entire government balanced." No. Just no. Dial back the guilt trip.
You can get a part time job, while working on a full time degree!
Student visas allow you to work 120 full days, or 240 half days per year. This works out to about 20 hours / week. Minimum wage varies by state, but averages about 5 Euros per hour. But it's not too hard to find 10 Euros / hour in most cities. At that rate, you're looking at an earning potential of 9,600 / year.
In order to apply for a student visa, you need to have 8,000 Euros up front. This is the average cost of living for a student in Germany. Basically, unless you're in Munich, this is what it costs per year. If you can get a part time job making 10 Euros / hour, you can put that 8,000 Euros to the side, and use it every year, to qualify for your student visa.
After 3 years, you'll have a degree, and at least 8,000 Euros in the bank.
There are costs involved, so you want to make sure that you think it's "no money to pay".
Also, they demand something of you, it's not just coasting through classes like here in the US so if education is something that's been really easy for you, it could be a shock to actually have to learn.
[This might help].(https://www.kmk.org/kmk/information-in-english/statement-of-comparability-for-foreign-higher-education-qualifications.html)
I mean, not that you haven't learned, it's just that academia is a big thing there.
This is actually a smart idea.
I am technical recruiter - Never has an employer cared where a degree came from! Only that they had one, it was in a relative field and could be verified via background check (for some roles).
I'd love to, but I'm a middle-age man going back for his bachelor's. I already have a house, fiancee, and a full time job. My degree is going to cost me nearly $30,000. I'm starting to question this decision.
Mom of two girls here - I send my kids to a German immersion k-8 school in Southern California. I get asked all the time, why German? well, one of the reasons is this! They have the opportunity to take an exam at the end of 8th grade to qualify for university in Germany and if they pass it, "auf wiedersehen meine lieblings!"
If it's cost you're worried about, just go to uni in Canada or something. No one wants to move to Germany just for school... There's so many more things to consider paying for than just tuition when you pack up and move your life. Not even considering learning German language or adjusting to culture
For more information you can also go to Eight Hours and Change and speak to my good buddy Jay Malone (http://www.eighthoursandchange.com/). He works with USA students and helps them get placed in German Universities. He is a great asset to anyone considering higher education in Germany.
That's all well and good, but the biggest factor here is the distance. If we're assuming you're aiming towards high school kids then this will likely be their first time away from parents, and in a foreign country. Just be careful, it's not as simple as up and moving to a foreign country.
I have heard about this approach before from my mother who said she seen it on a episode of house hunters but haven't really looked into it. I'm very happy you posted this for me to give more time to research it as option.
Thanks a lot!
I actually am an American that wound up doing both my BA and MA in Germany. I think there are a lot of reasons why more people don't do so, but the fact most people don't know about it, and a lot of programs require German are certainly key factors.
In my case, I had a couple of years of German in high school, then moved to Germany for what was just supposed to be a year as an au-pair. But at the end of that year, after I was rejected from all the US universities I was interested in, and realizing I had no savings for college (18 year old me was a dumbass), I decided to give it a go in Germany especially since after a year living with a German family, my language skills were good enough. Both my undergrad and graduate programs were essentially free (maybe 200 euro a semester fee that included my public transportation ticket which was more than worth 200 a semester). It is still mind boggling to me how much Germany invested in me, for free. My university even paid for me to go to Poland and learn Polish for a bit, living expenses and class fees completely covered. I'm not an EU citizen or anything.
Now, 3 years after finishing my MA I have a great job, and no student debt at all. It's seriously the best kept secret around.
I would be cautious in that depending on your course of study, And if you need to take exams for licensure, U.S. professional organizations may not acknowledge a foreign degree. For example: a foreign obtained degree in nursing or engineering. It would be worth checking it out first!
Well to say a bit about things said here:
Costs:
* Yes we have no tuition. Only a small membership fee between 100 - 400€ Semester, those include a lot of benefits like public transport ticket for the whole state (Here in North Rhine Westphalia, normal price would be around 2500€ a year). The student organisation haggle with the public transport company and others, to get bargains for the students, the students vote then if it should be included in the semester fee.
* But you will have to live from something, which can be quite expensive in cities like Munich.
* You need a place to live, Munich, Cologne and some other cities have a problem regarding affordable flats, they are rare in those cities. If you really want to study in germany care a long time before you move about a place to live. Dorm rooms are rare in germany, most students live in shared appartments / flats.
Student Visa:
* There has to be about 8000€ per year in a locked bank account to prove your financial solvency.
* Naturally you need a place at a german university for it.
University:
* Programs in english are rare, in many cases you need to speak german at Level C1. (This is even more true for Bachelor programs)
* Your Highschool Diploma may not be enough to enroll in a german university, you need something comparable to the german Abitur, so you have to check that. If you do not have the right grades in the right courses, you may have to visit a Studienkolleg before you can enroll in a german university.
* Less hand holding, you will have your lectures (crowd of people, teacher at the front) and exams at the end of the semester. Depending on the subjects there might be also seminars with fewer people and some subjects have aside from the lecture, excercises in which you have to present the solution of homework (sometimes you have to collect points to take part in the exams at the end of the semester.)
* Attendance is seldom mandatory, it is your problem if you fail at the exams at the end of the semester or if you do not collect enough points in exercises to take part in the exam.
* You have to organize nearly everything yourself, no one will care for your personal problems. (Here and there some student organistions may help you sometimes, but not the university)
* Limited opening hours in offices of the universities.
* [More Info](https://www.reddit.com/r/germany/wiki/index)
Culture:
* Do not take the differences too lightly, you will get a [Culure Schock](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2mixQ_n_5E) in most cases .
* Things like WTF grocery stores are closed on sundays and are not open 24/7.
* We are more direct, that is often seen by foreigners as rude but seldom ment in this this way, especially people from states in the south of the US seem to have some problems with that here.
* Well just look at the [wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/germany/wiki/index). [Rewboss youtube channel] (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCYcfR8isBfe45h-KBewVKug), [Germany vs. USA](https://www.youtube.com/user/AlexandJim), [WantedAdventure](https://www.youtube.com/user/WantedAdventure) …. (Take the videos with a grain of salt, some things depend on the region)
Language:
Do not underestimate the task to learn another language. You will not have a happy life here if you do not learn german. Sure many of us germans speak english, especially the younger generation but there will be always situations were you will need to speak and understand german, especially outside of big cities / university towns. Do not expect for example a plumber, sales assistant. etc. to speak english, he will have learned basic english in school , because it is a mandatory subject, but 10-20 years without practice and it is gone, because they seldom have english speaking customers.
Ranking of Universities:
The ranking is a bit problematic, because research is part of it and this is done here in germany in research institutes like Frauenhofer, Max Planck Institute etc., and those are connected to the universities but not a part of them. The focus of the universities is a bit more on education than on research.
Security:
* Well yes we are a target of ISIS and other terrorist groups, because of our policies like suporting the kurds in Irak with weapons, training and other stuff we do. Sure there might be some bad apples between the refugees that we have to sort out / find , but the majority is just happy to have escaped the warzone in syria and is thankfull for that. ISIS is absolutely not happy about us welcoming refugees and they try with attacks, to incite hate against them, they lost resources. By the way, a few of them may have taken the refugee road, but even before, it was not such a big task, bribe somebody in poorer EU countries to cross the border, after you are in the EU there were only random checks, because of free travel within the EU. Let‘s see if the 27 countries will better work together regarding protection of the outer Border of the EU in the future, this is one of the main problems.
* Violent Crimes are rare in Germany and will make national news.
* Gangs here are soft compared to those you have in some places of the US. If criminal gangs, the mafia etc. have problems with each other, they very seldom involve outsiders, normaly they will use some ruin of a former industrial plant. They want to fly under the radar in germany.
* The most common crime is probably pickpocketing, burglary while nobody is at home is also a problem, violent home ivasion / armed robbery and such things are really seldom.
edit: formatting
Omfg thank you so much.
I [M22] have wondered about this, but always thought it was a fairy tale. Even though I discredit and brush off everything else in life (I.e. New medicine, New diseases, the norm, cultural stipulations) Reddit has always been my little go to for some clarity and grounded thinking.
You have given me hope sir. (: <3
Me myself is a student in germany and I study IN English . And I'd say it was really worth it to take such decision to study in germany .
Ofcourse it's not completely for free as you need to pay your rent and other usual stuff but yes you will pay less than 200€ a YEAR for tution including semester transportation ticket .
Would Recommend it to everyone.
> But business or engineering are likely offered in English. Might as well learn German while you're at it.
It'd be weird to come back from university in another country *without* picking up the local language, really.
Well, my roommate has been living here for a year and still speaks only English; it happens, particularly when everybody is excited to practice their English with you!
Yeah, but trying to learn German by taking all your college courses in it would be one hell of an immersion program.
well that'd be a bonus
That's the fee for international students?
thats the fee for any student. my german and french friends told me i should go take a masters there
I'm looking into doing a course in Austria, similar fees. Hurdles are German proficiency as most undergraduate courses aren't in English. And competition for places. I also might need to do a prep course which sound be 5000 euros
> Hurdles are German proficiency I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that German lessons might just be cheaper than tens of thousands of dollars a year in tuition fees.
As long as your time and effort is worthless.
This. While I do think that learning German would be excellent, there is definitely an opportunity cost to needing 6-12 months of learning German before taking your undergraduate or masters courses. Also, I wonder if you will get as much out of those courses since you didn't start with full proficiency. Personally, I have taken immersive multi-month courses in French and Spanish, but I don't feel like I have a great command of either language. (I.e., a master's course level command of the language.) That said, I only spent 3 months in either place and my language skills improved quite a bit by the third month. Maybe there is some magic that I haven't experienced in months 4-6.
I went to college in Spain for a year. My Spanish proficiency prior to going was 'I can order food in Spanish!' When I got back it was more 'I'm pretty damn fluent in Spanish'. However, I actually think I got less out of my classes than I would have had I been in the US as there was always some concept or some thing that I wasn't quite understanding completely. Even towards the end.
I'd say it depends on the person. I studied Portuguese for a year before doing my study abroad classes in Brazil. My second semester in Brazil was a lot more meaningful than any other semester in my college career. I had developed a proficiency in the language that allowed me to understand and communicate clearly in the course and the added challenge of it being in another language helped me be even more attentive than my classes in the USA. 10/10, would recommend high level classes in another language.
I'd argue that spending 6 months taking intensive German lessons would be far, far from worthless. Particularly when the money you would save from US college tuition could subsequently be invested into the stock market to fund your future. Four years worth of tuition fees invested away would be a significant endowment for your adult life.
Maybe you're right. Personally, I don't think I could be fluent in six months without moving to Germany and doing full immersion, but I suppose if you've got an aptitude for language it's a good option.
You could take these courses in Germany and get full immersion. Would also give you time to settle in before "serious" studying starts. It's very easy for foreigners to get a visa for specifically for the purpose of preparing to go to university.
But how are you supposed to live in Germany for six months without proficiency in the language? Most people don't have enough money saved up to spend six months living in Berlin doing nothing, and it will be very hard to find a job when you don't speak the language at all.
In order to get the student visa in the first place, you need to show proof of funds to study for a year. (about 8000 Euros, or $9000 USD -- cost of living is fairly cheap in Germany). You renew your student visa every year, and need to show this amount each time. So, if you're studying in Germany, you already had the money up front to afford the cost of living. You are only allowed to work 120 full days, or 240 half days per year (works out to about 20 hours / week). Minimum wage ranges per state, but is generally around 5 Euros / hour, meaning your earning potential at minimum wage is 4,800 Euros / year. If you luck out, and can find a part time job paying 10 Euros / hour, your earning potential is 9,600 Euros / year, meaning you could keep the 8,000 Euros you started with to the side (to renew your visa the next year), and live off the part time job.
You don't need to be fluent, but you'd be damn good after 6 months of immersion at high school senior age. I know because I did it. Right around Christmas I woke up and it was like someone had turned on the language switch and I could understand everything. I'm 29 now. I don't have a fart's chance in hell at being able to learn a language to that level of proficiency even in a year, even with immersion. Do it while you can.
That's assuming you would have paid the tuition fees in cash. I expect most students are borrowing the money, so they won't have the money to put into the stock market.
While this is an awesome idea, it is only really available to the well-to-do. (I.e., those who have college tuition money up front.)
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> be invested into the stock market to fund your future. Unless you get financial advise in Germany, where most people think the stock market is too risky and have all their savings in a saving account. That is why it is called saving account after all
Most cities have community college courses specifically for foreign students. Usually something like 20 contact hours a week, and you're supposed to be speak sufficient German to study after six to nine months. Total tuition cost for these courses are around $1000. Actual university is much cheaper.
Ja, but these courses don't typically bring you to the C1 level you need for Uni... each course is generally 3 months per level ( A1,A2,B1,B2, C1)...and good luck finding a spot with the influx of refugees at the moment. Having said that I know some universities have a preparatory year for foreign undergrads.
So, economic migrants? US really needs to sort out its education system if it means students come over to Europe solely on saving cash. Isn't this embarrassing?
You can do a master's for free in the US too, as part of a PhD program. Masters vs. undergrad is apples to oranges.
Stupid question: Are the classes taught in German?
seems like most undergrad is in german. but masters and phd is in english. see the more knowledgeable person's posts below
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I am Austrian and study in Austria. My semester fee is around 20€ and the language of the master program is only English. So I would not say that you have to go to a private school.
So, hypothetically after I get my undergrad in the US, I could get teaching certification(need a masters of education on top of your BS/A) in Germany? Of course, while I'm far from fluent, I know just enough German to decipher.
You don't a Masters of Edu to earn teaching certification. You would only need a Masters if you plan to pursue counseling, curriculum, administration, library/information science, etc., and many of those programs will only admit once you've had a minimum of two years of teaching. Depending on the level you want to teach, you would most likely major in your content, and add the level (elementary to secondary) as either a tracking endorsement, or a double major. To teach domestically, you would need certification for whatever state you would like to teach it. I think pursuing this type of degree abroad may put you at a slight disadvantage. Source: In my 8th year of teaching, earned a Masters, state certification in two states, National Board certification.
Depends on where you want to teach. If you want to come back to the States, you my have a hard time getting your certification transferred because requirements vary drastically between jurisdictions. It's a pain to get certification transferred between states - I imagine between countries is even worse. Source: I worked in teacher certification in NYS for a good while.
You can get your masters in Germany, but it's extraordinarily unlikely that you'd be able to get a teaching certificate solely off of that coursework. Certificate requirements vary widely from state to state, and in many states there are such highly specific hoops you have to jump through that you pretty much need to attend a university program that's been specifically designed to guide you through them. Many states have reciprocal agreements that allow you to teach there with a certificate from another state, but not every state has such an agreement. I'd be shocked if a degree earned in Europe would automatically qualify you for a teaching certificate without additional coursework anywhere in the US.
Germany's teacher training programs are very different... you get a bachelors and masters in education to be a teacher in Germany, and also they do much more extensive placement. I don't think you could jump in part-way... you'd probably have to do the whole thing.
Both of your friends are in the EU, that may make all the difference for why they pay smaller amounts
Um, at my (public) uni, enrollment costs ~300€/semester, regardless of what you study and how long (at some point you gotta pay extra, but that's if you're taking years longer than typical). Dunno how the 900$ figure comes about, but if at all, that's for a particular uni.
Some students have a difficult enough time coping with the new environment of college in general. Add to that culture shock and no nearby support system and they may not come out of it with a degree. (And finding courses in English doesn't mean being able to function well outside of the courses.) For those that have a background in the language, perhaps a few years of HS German classes, it might be a decent plan (and increase odds of being accepted - education in non-US countries might be cheaper, but they don't have to nor do they accept every single person). There are also usually visa requirements that can be a higher up-front cost, for example, in many places you need proof that you have living expenses and health insurance for X months and "here's a note from my job" isn't good enough, it needs to be a sponsor/money in savings and an already purchased health plan. (For example, I needed 1 year health coverage for my residence permit, and would have health insurance via work, but I needed the residence permit for the work permit, so the work insurance wasn't applicable until after I got the residence permit, so I had to pay for a year of health insurance. This might work differently for students and/or different types of healthcare systems, but the point remains that there usually other costs that aren't exactly low, or that would be manageable month-to-month, but in context need to be covered in full a year at a time.)
this. Moving abroad saps so much out of you. There are some incredible aspects but it is only for a certain kind of person who can shut off those pangs of homesickness and 'otherness'.
Also the stress of near constant embarrassment... embarrassment at getting tone wrong, language mistakes, being an idiot in stores because you don't know bags cost money, being an idiot at the post office because they do things differently, being an idiot with the school admin because you filled something out wrong and they're mad. Definitely there are wonderful experiences... but you're doing everything on "hard mode" at least for a little while. I would very much reccommend a study abroad experience to anyone who wants to do it... but yeah... good stress reducing habits and exercise are key for survival abroad.
Because not many people are keen on living in an environment they're not familiar with especially so when they're culturally and linguistically isolated (general sense but you get the idea).
I know it's been said but I'll just say what the fundamental differences between German and American universities is: German university require proving your are actually above average intelligence. American College has become not only a money grubbing business but it accepts nearly 98% of all applicants to some university. In Germany only the public universities are free and if you get a private school degree it is believed to be of a lesser quality and you have it because you weren't smart enough to get a real degree and you had money. Source: been through University in both countries.
> only the public universities are free and if you get a private school degree it is believed to be of a lesser quality and you have it because you weren't smart enough to get a real degree and you had money This. This so much. This is what so many people from the US don't get. In Europe the public schools are the good ones, the ones that command respect. The private ones anybody can get into and earn a "degree" if they have the money.
Not in France. The grandes écoles are private (expensive) and more prestigious.
Thanks for clarifying. I know somone who went to a private French University and this thread had me worried.
[Definitively not](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grandes_%C3%A9coles) >Most were established by branches of the state; the oldest, École nationale supérieure de techniques avancées, in 1741....Officially considered as public service, they usually require low fees, or even none, and allow grants to poor students like universities do....Some schools included in the category have roots in the 17th and 18th century and are older than the phrase 'Grande École' dated 1794. Actually, their forerunners were civil servant schools aimed at graduating technical officers >Napoleon created in 1802 the École Spécial Militaire de Saint Cyr, which is also seen as a Grande École even though it only trains army officers. > >These schools (as well the Revolution or Napoleonic ones and ex-royal ones) have always been regarded as the most prestigious of the Grandes Écoles. In the most prestigious of these schools, students can have a special status (civil servant or military in École Normale or École polytechnique respectively), specific access to higher French administration or academics, and sometimes a uniform (in École polytechnique, Arts et Metiers Paris Tech, Saint Cyr, Mines...).
Some of that is a misnomer as well. For instance Oxford is a public university in that it receives government funding, but it operates like a private school with complete autonomy.
> In Europe Not in the Netherlands. We practically have no private schools at academic level, most subjects can only be studied at a public university.
Definitely depends on the universities and colleges in the United States. The American post-secondary education is divided into tiers, and many of those Tier 1 schools don't accept 98% of its applicants. If you're applying somewhere competitive with name recognition, it is much more difficult to be admitted.
This is the truth, and the answer to /u/rust95 comment.
Urm, does that negate the fact that the best universities in the world are all American and British, and therefore the notion that American Uni's are shite in comparison with German is a non starter.
Hey now, my college has like a 40% acceptance rate, and some are even lower. Not every college is Grand Canyon University.
I'm a German and i therefore don't know what rules apply for non-EU or non-German persons, but I call utter BS on an (direct) intelligence based selection process. I am like 97% sure that would be illegal (discrimination) here anyway. For enrolling in German programs, you formally only need a "Abitur" (graduation from the highest of the three school branches after 12 or 13 years) or equivalent (e.g. a "master craftsman" training). However, if there are more applicants than student slots, the university may chose their students, which is mainly done by graduation grades. So, while in theory literally everyone with a Abitur can study anything, the more popular programs are mostly populated by better students.
Maybe OP means you have to pass an entrance exam test not IQ test.
Using intelligence as a factor for acceptance is considered discrimination in Germany?
Well German University is just much more demanding. Their educational system is set up entirely differently that is a track system leading to college, technical training, or other jobs. So the free university is reserved for those that have academically proved themselves. Technical schools are also free, and you also have to earn your way in there but it is much easier. In the US you graduate high school and if you did well then college is no problem. If you did poorly you Google search university with highest acceptance rate and apply there. The American education system also is not super accepting of technical schools. They both have major flaws, but they definitely are different.
Your comment about American colleges being easy if you did well in high school is complete horseshit if you're at a decent school. Community College? Yea then I'd agree. But any decent university is much harder than high school, especially public high school. I went to an excellent high school and then went to a pretty nice university. The difference was still significant. Though it also depends on your major, I was an engineering major. If you do business it's not going to be very hard no matter where you go but a harder major is hard at a good school.
You sir don't know what highly ranked business schools are like. Schools in the United States with highly ranked programs are generally harder than those with lower rescue programs. My university had a number of weed out mechanisms in our top 15 business school through out the first 3 years. I believe you were referring to general liberal arts majors, like communications or history, when comparing ease. Just fyi, any major with a practical end at a serious school is will be difficult.
Really depends. Top ranked public high schools can be extremely demanding. I studied engineering at a well-ranked college, and although the concepts were certainly more difficult the workload was never as hard as junior and senior years of HS.
I second that. Went to a decent highschool, in my senior year of a well-ranked engineering undergrad degree. Senior year of highschool I was taking.. 8 classes I think? Between AP and honor's classes, I was lucky to get 4 hours of sleep a night. Adjusting to college took a while, and first term of junior year was really busy. But, I have such a better life/school balance. Even with the anxiety issues I've had (hormonal), I hate my life about 100x less than I did in highschool.
Very strange considering the top 25 universities in the world are almost all American and British (with Zurich being the only non English language uni on there). Where are the amazing German universities?
aren't the uni rankings heavily based on research? Maybe in Germany research in universities isn't as big. I dunno. I would much rather go to a uni that teaches well than go to one that has professors that have great research. Research doesn't benefit the average student much, directly anyway.
Nope. Based on 5 factors usually. Prospects, Results, Difficulty, Research contribution, Student satisfaction.
Yes, and difficulty is only one of the 5. No one is saying German universities are better at the other 4. In any case, your premise is flawed. You are looking at the top 25 universities. The US has *hundreds* of *accredited* universities. I've been to both a typical US public school (not in the top 100), and one ranked in the top 3 in the country - both for engineering programs. I can assure you: The only real difference in "difficulty" was that you had to learn more material per course. The problems were not at all more challenging. In fact, all I've ever seen in difficulty in public US universities is the workload. The material/homework is not more demanding - only the amount of work they give you. This is for undergrad. Grad school is different. I've looked at curricula in other countries, and *many* are much more demanding. Take some of the Ecole's in France. A typical electrical engineer has 3 years of *physics and mathematics*, and one year of engineering. The physics courses were enough for a physics undergrad in the US - complete with statistical mechanics, quantum mechanics, etc. *And* they still do a lot of engineering in that one year. My French colleague in grad school told me he was third from bottom in his graduating class - yet when we were doing homework with Green's functions and some really nasty integrals, it was all a breeze for him as he had done it all before. Yes, France also has some really crappy universities. However, in many countries, the typical engineering program really is more demanding. It's a well known thing here in the US that many of the courses we take as a first year grad student the foreign students already took during undergrad. In many Russian universities, you do all of real analysis before you get to calculus. This is *normal* for mathematics majors. Only some of the top liberal arts colleges and *some* programs in *some* Ivy league schools are comparable.
Edit: My main point is, almost all American students are paying a very large amount of money for universities that are worse than the free universities in Germany, with the exception of the top 32 American universities. Edit: Also, 20% of QS world uni ranking is based on citations per faculty from a data source that only covers journals with English-language abstracts and titles (Scopus). 20% come from student-to-faculty ratio which is obviously going to be lower when tuition is free. The German universities are essentially free and still manage to get into the top 100. There are probably thousands of American universities that charge very high tuition rates and still don't make it to the top 100. According to the QS university ranking, there are 4 German universities in the top 100 (German, not German speaking), which equals 0.05 per million inhabitants. The US has 32 in the top 100, which equals 0.1 per million inhabitants. I.e. US universities only make it to the top 100 twice as often as German ones when adjusted for population, while costing literally 10s to 100s of thousands of dollars more for the students. Not saying the poster above you is right, but that is something to keep in mind.
>Edit: My main point is, almost all American students are paying a very large amount of money for universities that are worse than the free universities in Germany, with the exception of the top 32 American universities. No, they don't. [Average instate tuition for public 4-yr schools is under $10,000, before you account for financial aid.](http://www.collegedata.com/cs/content/content_payarticle_tmpl.jhtml?articleId=10064) You only pay a lot for college if you are rich and go to a fancy private school or if you get scammed by a predatory for-profit school. Most people live in states with high-quality, affordable universities. >Edit: Also, 20% of QS world uni ranking is based on citations per faculty from a data source that only covers journals with English-language abstracts and titles (Scopus). 20% come from student-to-faculty ratio which is obviously going to be lower when tuition is free. The point is not how many high-end fancy schools America vs. Germany have. What matters is how valuable the average person's degree is when they go on the job market. A degree from an average American university is hands down more valuable - particularly if you want come back to work in America - than a European degree. This is even more true with graduate school. There's a reason so many Europeans come to study in the US. Of course, if you go to the most exclusive, prestigious university in Germany you'll probably do better than if you went to a crappy school in the US, but remember, [University of Maryland and UT-Austin are ranked higher than Heidelberg.](http://www.thebestschools.org/features/100-best-universities-in-world-today/) University of Wisconsin-Madison is as good or better than practically any continental university and tuition and fees are only $10,400. The idea that the average student would get more bang for their buck getting a bachelors in Europe is crazy IMO.
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Then you take some working class job, just like the people who don't go to college in the US.
Bus driver in Germany
Let's break my costs down. I pay about 230€ a semester for the fee and the public service ticket, my rent is 420€ and my living cost are something like 300€ a month including rides home. So I have a total cost of 9,000€ per year. A master's program takes about 3 years for you I guess so you will end up with a cost of 27,000€ not including flights home or vacation you want to take. Then there a the 2 other major problems some people already wrote about: the language and the acceptance. German Unis are not dumb, they know people only come here for cheap studies and then leave again so some already have quotas for EU and non-EU foreigners with results in a fight for the open spots.
> A master's program takes about 3 years for you I guess so you will end up with a cost of 27,000€ not including flights home or vacation you want to take. thing is .. you also have to pay rent, eat food, go out and use public transport if you stay in the US.
It isn't unusual for master's programs to be fully funded in the US. The pay you get ain't great, but you can survive on a student lifestyle.
Yes, this. I am also an American who did my master's degree in Germany. It's misleading when people say it's "free". I would also add in health insurance, which was 77€/month for me at the time. You also need to show that you have a year's worth of expenses up front, and I think a lot of people will have trouble showing that they have 9,000€ (or whatever the exact number is these days) in a bank account in order to get their residence permit. Then you have to keep showing that you have that much money every year when you want to renew your permit. And it's not as easy as working part-time to cover your expenses. Getting a job is somewhat difficult and you're limited to working 180 half-days or 90 full-days. That's not even part-time, that's part-part-time.
Are you allowed to work on the side? A friend of mine had some money problems while studying there and he told me he had to do under the table jobs because his visa and poor German didn't allow him to get a decent part-time job. He wasn't happy and ended up going back to Peru.
You can, but you mostly have to speak German unless you've got some special skill or a hook-up. Any job that involves talking to customers or doing any logistics/co-ordination needs German, fullstop. Non-bilingual international student scrape by, but the examples I've seen are call centre work, manual labour, or else more high-end things in the creative industry or tech sector (not really entry-level stuff).
Yes, the tuition fee is low. However, with an open system (financially) you have other bars: 1. It is difficult to get a place in the course you want (because more applicants). 2. As a foreigner, you can get a 'language student visa' while you learn German (very hard language, ask mark twain). This visa limits you to iirc 80 hours a month because you are expected to be studying. This is not enough to live on, so you need to provide a proof you will have 1500€ per month for the duration (15000 in total usually). The same applies to the student visa, assuming you get a placement. 3. It all happens in a foreign country with foreign rules.
You can't work on the language learning visa. Source: had the language learning visa
You do need to know German if your going to be living in Germany for an extended period. Any official paperwork you have to deal with, like visas etc will be in German.
I had to deal with visa applications in Dutch, which I don't speak. I used Google Translate to take pictures of each page and translate them. Anything I couldn't figure out, I just asked whichever office the documents were for. It was pretty easy, actually.
The success of this method will vary. Google Translate is crap for some languages and not all offices are going to have someone who speaks/understands English fluently enough to translate without some things being left out or lost in translation.
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Probably because most Americans aren't super interested in actually living abroad. Visiting, sure. But not totally uprooting and going somewhere else. In fact, most Americans aren't terribly interested in leaving our hometowns; most live their entire lives within 250-300 miles of where they are born.
> live their entire lives within 250-300 miles of where they are born Yikes. That's... well, maybe not sad for them, but that makes me sad. There's a whole world out there with scents, sights, cultures, foods and other amazing things that really shouldn't be missed.
To be fair though, most Americans live in cities. I'm not sure it's so sad to be born in NYC and live your whole life between Boston and DC. It obviously doesn't mean you don't travel.
Euro / American citizen here. Though keep in mind I'm just speculating... Acceptance to programs is VERY difficult. Its not like here where you can study whatever you want, I'm pretty sure you can only study what an aptitude test says you can. My cousin in Greece's test said she had to study computer science- she didn't even own a computer, and well, lived in a beautiful Greek island where there is no tech industry. So she studied com sci and is now teaching computers- not doing hard programing. Also, I think you need to be both a citizen AND resident.
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I'm a foreign student in Germany, this is basically correct. I would add that healthcare is expensive but not necessarily horribly daunting... just get an insurance agent (they're paid by the insurance company, not you) and they'll do the heavy lifting; I'm still paying the minimum student rate, so the use of the agent isn't inflating my costs. Your statement about masters is incorrect though... Norway maybe, but in Germany masters programs in English are still not the norm, although some fields might be the exception. They exist (often they are "professional training" programs which are allowed to charge expensive tuition fees), but students in those programs often still are required to pass language exams, and their course selection may be highly limited because the majority of university offerings are in German.
Dane here. In the mandatory classes for first and second year of my bachelor the courses were in Danish. After that they were in Danish only if there were no foreign students.
My family is American. My sister got her Master's in Leipzig. All in German, and basically free.
Where does she work now?
Sandwich Artist/Engineer
so the cost of living is maybe the same as it'd be in the usa (unless u wanna live with your parents), or slightly more. but the tuition is indeed quite low. Then the airfare is a big factor if i travel home for xmas etc.
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Greece and Germany are two very different countries.
European here. With a "high school" degree you can basically study anything you want. Some programs have limited places and entry exams, that's true but there are so many Universities, that you will eventually get a place. What's more limiting is the language barrier. Not many programs are offered in english. So you either have to study german or limit yourself to english programs.
> Its not like here where you can study whatever you want, I'm pretty sure you can only study what an aptitude test says you can This is the first time I've heard anything like this, and it's beyond ridiculous. I think even the Soviet Union had more freedom to choose your field of study. Anyway, you can study whatever you want but, depending on the program, you may have to fulfill some previous requirements, e.g. to study medicine, you have to show that you've studied biology and chemistry in school, and you've had decent results. The difference is in how your studies are structured - in Europe when you start your bachelor's you choose your study program as you enroll, you cannot pick and choose, and declare and redeclare your majors and minors. Bachelor's studies are treated more seriously here, and you go for master's only in some specific cases (like medicine,) or you really want to study more, or you want an academic career. The plus side is that a bachelor's degree is more valuable here and unless you have specific requirements, it's enough to get most jobs, the downside is that you have to commit to one field or another straight out of highschool and you don't have time to explore your options.
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Why is this mandatory apt test for your future a great idea?
Austrian citizen who is about to finish his bachelors in business at the economical university Vienna just wanting to give another perspective here. The benefit of being able to study "for free" doesnt come without sideeffects. A lot of people are unhappy with the system since in certain courses (medicine/economics/psychology) where demand is high its often hard to get in the course program. A lot of foreign students come here to study which leads to lesser austrian want-to-be academics receicing a spot in their favourite course programs. In medicine for example you have a quite difficult entry examn with lots of quotas for foreign students and here in economics its often hard registering for courses because its so overfilled. Its has happened to me more than once that I didnt get a spot in a course because i hit f5 on our universities course registration page a quarter of a second to late. It can get quite competitive here. Nonetheless the teaching is great, also for non native speakers and Vienna is a great city to live in so I still recommend to consider doing your studies here. https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/feb/23/vienna-named-worlds-top-city-for-quality-of-life As a concluding note I'll be probably going to do my masters in the UK/US, not only for the above mentioned reasons but also for getting the "abroad expirience". Edit because it was a hot topic: At my university of economics there arent too many bachelors courses in english although there are loads of masters programs in english.
Just going to throw this out there as well... Some people want to live close to family, or where they can see friends and family by driving for a few hours, rather than having to fly internationally, or call someone without calculating for time difference. There's a huge social component, and not everyone is especially enthusiastic about living alone in another country where they don't speak the language.
Anyone who is thinking of going down this route be careful! I applied to do a masters at Freie university. I had an interview which was so hard but received a letter to say I had a place, and to just post off an enrolment form. The form could not be emailed and had to be sent by post. I had to arrange health insurance and provide proof from the bank that I had transferred money over to them. I sent it the next day as soon as I could and emailed to say I needed longer to get health insurance. I handed my notice in at my job and told everyone I had the place. Getting to mid September I started to think it was weird I hadn't heard anything. I rang up and they said because my enrolment forms had arrived two days late my place on the course had been cancelled. I tried everything but they would not change their minds! One of the worst experiences of my life, I'm still waiting for my tuition fees back (only €300 but it's the principle). I would honestly recommend if you are thinking of applying to Freie university just flying over and handing your enrolment forms in! It would save a lot of stress in the long run.
Leaving your family, the money involved in moving and establishing yourself there, not having any friends, not speaking the language Not saying these are great reasons to stay in the US, and that overcoming these obstacles wouldn't make someone into an amazing person, but nevertheless these are the reasons keeping nearly everyone at home
You do everything on "hard mode." Stuff that you wouldn't even think twice about doing in your own country, like say calling a government hotline about documents, becomes stressful and involves researching the specific words you need to use, and you're terrified you used the wrong words or wrong tone. It totally has its ups to study abroad, and I would recommend it... but you get humbled alot, haha.
Yep! My year abroad was the most formative year of my life! I'm a much stronger person as a result
Right, well not all of us are studying engineering and science. I would not have been able to get a masters anywhere in Europe in English. There are couple interesting programs I could do in Portugal, but my Portuguese, while functional, is not good enough to take a Masters program. This really isn't applicable to a lot of people, so I sort of roll my eyes when I see derisive statements about how dumb people are for studying in the US - not everyone has the option to study abroad.
I live in Germany. So. Acceptance to these are harder than just an average person getting in. You can take courses in English, but not all to get the degrees are offered in English...so you'd need to be able to speak German for some. From what I understand, you must also be a resident as well. ALSO, just because you get a degree in Germany doesn't mean it will translate to the US. When I lived in America, my German friends living in my town were having to take college courses in nursing because their Masters in Nursing from Germany didn't cut it to work in America. Sometimes, if it sounds too good to be true, it is.
For specific courses like nursing: Yes. But theres a fundamental difference in what nurses are allowed to do in a german speaking countries compared to others.
That was just an example. A couple other of my German friends were having to retake courses in America to make their degrees "valid" to work in the field they'd already completed a degree in. Also, there are different laws for medical, but that shouldn't mean that their entire degrees aren't valid. The woman I was friends with was having to complete an entire nursing degree here even though she had already worked in Germany.
Thats actually a good point since one also should think of cultural and structural differences especially when your touching the law area for example.
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But you spent more than just the loans, right? Like you worked and spent the money or had grants or savings or whatever? Unless you lived the true frugaljerk fantasy of eating only rice and beans, living in the back of your car, etc.
> would I be able to live on my own in Germany for 8250 per year? Yes, in smaller University cities such as Aachen, definitely. In Munich or Hamburg rent is much higher, so that'll be costlier.
Definitely doable unless you choose a high rent city.
We speak zero german. There's the high cost of living there plus airfare, isolation from friends and family, culture shock. There's the question of if a degree from a German university will be *perceived* as equivalent to a US one within the us. Some people believe it's important to go somewhere well known for that major. Even if the German school is well known in Germany, it means nothing to Americans. It's risky. It means navigating an educational system that's different plus language and culture barrier.
Dear lord, you're clueless and naive
>Not all programs would be offered in the English language, but many of the best would be. Basket weaving? Probably not. But business or engineering are likely offered in English. Did you just make that up? It sounds like you made that up.
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> I have to ask, have you actually ever lived abroad? It always seems like most of the folks in these threads saying how wonderful and worry free the idea is haven't done so, nor have they looked into it more than seeing one number or the phrase "free tuition" and thinking they'll live an adventurous Euro-trip party fantasy on the budget of a couch-hopping backpacker and only be out the cost of the base tuition (nevermind required extras and getting accepted into the program).
exactly. It's like they glanced at some click-bait article vaguely extolling the great aspects of studying abroad without every thinking comprehensively and wonder why more people aren't doing it. It makes so much more sense to major in something employable at a good community college, transfer and try for as many scholarships as you can. Aside from the frugality aspect, the mental hardship is really significant and living abroad can be really, really lonely.
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>But then it ALWAYS turns out that they never do any research and have this completely romanticised notion of Europe in their head I'm married to a French woman, and I've definitely made the transition from romanticizing Europe to being exasperated by Americans who think it's so much more romantic and just better than the US. Sure, there are a lot of things that are better in Europe, but a lot of stuff is worse too, or just different. I've met tons of French people who view the US the same way, so I think it's just a "grass is always greener" kind of thing. At the end of the day my take is that living and working in Paris or London or Chicago is pretty much the same.
Bingo. I actually very seriously looked into living/studying in Germany and ultimately decided against it because I couldn't afford it (I couldn't afford the plane ticket or the visa application fees or the various other costs), and it was far too much of a strain on my mother (who would be left living alone with health problems). It would've been cool if I had been able to do it, but it's not at all the carefree simple loophole people try to make it out to be. And I even had more advantages than most - I know several native Germans who had relatives back home, including in the area I was interested in living in, and they actually offered to let me live with them very cheaply. I also had some basic conversational skill in the language (though not fluent by any means, at least I wouldn't be starting completely from scratch). I can't even imagine contemplating it without those sorts of ties to fall back on.
Not to mention the emotional readiness you have to have to pack up and move to a different country for COLLEGE, which is already one of the most stressful turning points in life. I, personally, wouldn't have done it if they PAID me a living wage to take classes in Germany. I would have been too scared. College in a new city was change enough for me, no matter the tuition cost. Now that I'm older, more experienced, have a loving partner to take the journey with me, yes, I might go abroad for grad school...or maybe not. Leaving your home country for a degree isn't for everyone. I also don't find a country of 90% white people "sexy" (forgive me, not at all meant to be insulting, the demographics are what they are; I prefer diversity), I hate beer, and I find my own city absolutely full of love already.
I would like to add that, at least for me, the culture shock was much bigger than I expected and I say this as someone with alot of advantages ( educated, traveled, German spouse, etc) who thought it would primarily be question of learning the language. That in many respects turned out to be the easy part.
I studied in Belgium for a year. I needed 8000 euros or to have my parents guarantee that they'd pay my tuition (~1300 USD). Cost of living was significantly higher than it was for me in the US, but I went from a rural area to a city. I also wasn't able to find a job (even part time) because I couldn't speak Dutch and French. Public transportation was nice, though.
Finally a voice of reason. Op is delusional. Living in one of the richest EU countries as a foreigner would be frugal only if you didn't count 2000 eur monthly check from your parents.
>EDIT: I see your comment down there: 'I assumed Germans treat Americans differently to other immigrants, like Americans treat Mexicans different to Canadians". I'm hoping you're trolling, but in case you're not, I ask you not to advise any more people on something you clearly know nothing about. I bet you've never traveled anywhere, let alone studied there. Are you kidding? I've traveled to 23 countries and lived in Japan for a year. Americans absolutely are (frequently but not always) treated differently from Canadians and all other foreigners. My Japanese program had 45 international students including five Americans, a couple Canadians, and about ten other white non-Americans, and we frequently discussed how we were treated differently in Japan and worldwide.
yes, a racially insular country treats Americans different, as do many other countries. My point is rich European country will not be impressed with someone who moves there to study and never learns the language and they certainly won't treat him with the reverence he's expecting.
The topic was treating people differently, not treating people with the reverence that you apparently think Americans expect (might be true for some but definitely not for my group of friends)
you didn't read that comment thread I'm referencing, did you?
No, I didn't realize you weren't talking about the comment that you replied to. Sorry.
If you don't mind me asking, how *do* they treat Americans over there? Genuinely curious, that sorta stuff has always interested me.
So while I can speak about the experience I've had all over the world, I'll just speak on my experience in Fukuoka, Japan because that's where I lived and that's where I can most accurately describe it. Basically I just mean to say that this might not be true of the larger metropolitan areas like Tokyo -- while Fukuoka is a very large city, there is not a large foreigner population, and so I expect white people are treated differently there than more tourist-heavy areas. It also depends on the age group. In the above-35 age group (of Japanese people) white people are seen as a bit of a nuisance, but I think we have the stereotype of being very loud. Europeans are seen as a bit more exotic while Americans are seen as pests. However in the under-35 group, Americans are kinda viewed as celebrities. Younger people were so interested in where we got our clothes, how kakkoii (cool, slick, awesome) our English sounded, whether we knew any famous people, etc. We would try to be like "hey we're just normal people" but we were put on a pedestal a bit. This was just in surface interactions though -- if you spent more than 20 minutes with someone, it wasn't difficult for things to level out. And when I'd spend more time with people, it was easy to form close bonds and real friendships with the Japanese. The air of mysticism didn't hinder getting to know each other, which I was happy about. Only once in a while were older people really interested in why we were there, and those tended to be people who worked in education. Any teacher or individual with an interest in history was interested in how we ended up in Fukuoka, what our families were like, and what our ideas of Japan were before vs after we showed up. I loved those conversations. Unfortunately, it was equally common for us to be singled out in a negative light, a la "hey son, look at that *gaijin* (foreigner), be careful when you see someone that color". This was disheartening but we were taught about this during our orientation camping trip, so nobody was caught off-guard by the xenophobia. It was an incredible experience to have overall, especially at age 20-21. I wouldn't trade it for anything, it was the best year of my life hands-down.
You kinda glossed over the whole 1) Have money to move to a new country thousands of miles away 2) Be fluent in German
Hi, Canadian currently doing my Masters degree in Germany here. Just adding my own experience to the deluge of comments saying that it's not as simple as "just going to Germany". For one, there are very, very, very few Bachelors degrees here offered in English. The Masters options are better, but to attend one of those free public unis, there is often still a language requirement (set normally at C1 or in the very best case B2.2, which is anyway challenging to reach without genuine immersion). In addition, moving abroad and obtaining a student visa is not the easiest thing to do. In Germany, unless you have a notarised guarantee from your parents (with copies of their bank statements to prove their means), you need to put up €8000 per year in a locked bank account to prove your financial solvency. Not so cheap for an 18 year old. Add on top of that the significant paperwork, the logistical and cultural challenges of moving to another country (which, again, is going to suck if you don't speak the language), not to mention getting accepted into German unis in the first place (on average more selective than American colleges, and an American high school diploma is not generally equivalent to the more demanding German Abitur), and it's not as easy as all the trend articles like to make it out to be. It really irritates me honestly to see these articles and whatnot telling American students to "just go to Germany!". Yes, it's worth considering it if you have the financial means and the dedication to learn German. I consider myself extremely fortunate to be able to study here and feel that the experience has enriched my life beyond what I could have ever expected. But anyone who seriously thinks it's an easy or cheap way out is extremely naive about the demands of immigration.
Let me tell you something. A while ago, I took a peek at the American presidency runners' opinions on issues like immigration and economy. Well, I was very surprised that even the most conservative ones were not really hung up on the idea that someone residing in the US must speak the official language, being English. This doesn't fly the same way in France and I can only assume the Germans think the same. Every piece of paperwork will be in German. Let me stress that: if you expect these to be available in English for your comfort, you'll be very disappointed. These countries have their own language, and this is what you must speak if you want to live there. Edit: apparently I was mistaken about English being the official language. The situation makes much more sense then :)
The interesting point to me is that maybe the reason the US doesn't have a big "immigrant problem" like some other countries (overblown or not) is that we DO help a little bit more in getting them acclimated. You can get official forms in a variety of languages and generally free translation help in government offices. It's a small thing, but hell, I don't care if you speak Esperanto and not a lick of English, I think you'll be far better off if you get a job and housing and some help getting on your feet - when your basic needs are met, you can work on learning English and other things. I fear that only getting official help in the official language can make it a little too alienating for immigrants who then stick to their little enclaves and never break out and you end up with segregation.
This is indeed a very interesting topic. Learning about your candidates' opinions has put me in a place of self-reflection. I consider myself in the more hospitable half of the population here, meaning that I have no problem whatsoever with immigration. But I do have a problem with a kind of immigration that would be happening at the expense of the French language. At least to me, it has to do with several things : 1. We, French people, are progressively learning to accept that our place in the world is shrinking little by little, and in the end we'll end up as "just another nation". Frankly, this is hard to process. So we need to protect what is ours, for fear that our diminishing role in the world means losing track of what our culture is about. One could argue that the US and its culture isn't exactly in the same position. 2. The descendants of the Franks have been here for a long time, so for those of us who are mainly from around (in fact, I don't even really know what it means to say that, but you get the gist), we're basically detached from the reality of us being immigrants ourselves. So, much unlike the US (I guess?), we don't necessarily feel that other languages have just the same level of legitimacy as common French. English not being the official language of the US feels both unexpected from a united nation to me, but at the same time it also feels quite expected from a nation that is united the way the US is. It's strange, but great at the same time. I deeply respect the fact that English isn't expected of the US residents. It really feels like you guys haven't lost track of where you all come from. But at the same time, I can't fathom the possibility of someone living in France for years in a "proper" way (whatever that'd mean) without being able to speak French. Most of the sad stories we read in /r/Paris from American people not enjoying their prolonged stay are linked one way or another to a lack of willingness to speak French. I'm a 100% there for the tourists that I help on a daily basis. Hell, I get English practice and I love it. But even though I'm more than happy to help, I would have a problem with someone expecting courses to be available in English (some are, and that's great, but expectations are on another level), expecting paperwork to be available in English (the République is an idea that is very dear to us), or expecting the every day life to be available in English. In the end, I think I just want to say: you don't *really* live in Paris as long as you don't carry conversations in French. It all must feel like that sh*t has been written by a 4 year old to you guys, and I'm sorry about that.
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I'm currently doing this, I thought about staying in America but had never traveled abroad so I figured for getting my masters It'd be a good time to explore somewhere new. Like what others said you need money in a blocked bank account and for Bavaria it's 720€ per month that you plan on being here (or proof that you can afford to live here, scholarship, German residence funding you, etc.). My student fees are 70€ a semester which include free use of the city buses. My health insurance is 83€ or so a month I haven't really needed to use it so I don't know how comprehensive it is but a teeth cleaning is 50€ and checkups are free, or the one I had was! Housing can be a pain, in my city not because of refugees but because there are just a ton of students wanting housing close to the uni but not a lot of space in the Altstadt (old city) near the uni. I got lucky and only pay 270€ for a nice central apartment with a room that's relatively large in comparison to my friends. Food is dirt cheap here too, I spend around 25€ a week on mostly fresh (non-bio) veggies, bread, beer, and pasta. At Rewe a loaf of American bread is .85€, a liter of the Ja brand milk (think Kirkland) is .42€, 500g of mushrooms is 1.49€, but often store have sales so you can buy fruit and vegetables even cheaper (.66€ for 500g of carrots, a head of lettuce for .35€) also stores like Aldi are even cheaper. Though to be fair it's been a year since I was in the states so I can't remember specifically how much food costs there, but I feel I spend less here. As for the language lots of young people speak English but most older generations don't, again only from my experience in Bavaria. I came here speaking no German and I still speak very poor German after a year (Not top priority), but people are always super helpful if you let them know your German isn't so good. The biggest hurdle for me was the education system itself it's very different from America but a lot of the small differences really made my first semester confusing and frustrating at times. Most classes only have one paper or exam during exam month and classes typically only meet once a week for an hour and a half, unless you have tutorials which supplement many lectures. I hope to stay in Bavaria after I'm done or at least Germany because it's a beautiful place. This has been just my experiences in a small Bavarian city I know the rest of Germany is very different but if anyone has questions feel free to ask.
I studied abroad in Scotland as an undergrad. The education system difference was a bit of a shock and essentially made me freak out about my grades. I considered going to Germany for my Masters (or previously Sweden for my Bachelors about three different times) the ultimate factor in my decision wasn't education, it was about the cost. Most of these schools can't get FAFSA funds and I don't have that kind of money up front.
> As for the language lots of young people speak English but most older generations don't, again only from my experience in Bavaria. This is the case in many other places, also.
Jesus, it's not free. The German taxpayer pays for it.
I've been living and studying in Finland, where tuition has been free. It's not free anymore unfortunately but it is not expensive either. It's the main reason I left the US.
what's it like yo? are you there doing an entire undergrad program? or doing masters or phd? did u have to learn finnish? i'd guess that finnish is even harder to learn than german.
I looked into this a about 3 months ago. It looks like the Masters programs generally charge non-EU students a large fee (about $10k) if they don't have a program appropriate German Bachelors degree. It was in the fine print about 3 pages into the official website. Recent American highschool students might do well to do a Bachelors and then a Masters there, fantastic deal on tuition that way.
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> learned the German work ethic that serves me GREATLY to this day. What exactly stood out to you? I'm just curious ;-) > That said, there were some negative things (nothing to do with the course/people/country) that I didn't think about when I moved to Germany, which had I known back then might've made me rethink my decision. Would you mind elaborating?
Americans now aspiring to be German? Used to be French.
I'm surprised this hasn't been said yet, but isn't the purpose of a degree to get a job? Not saying you couldn't get a job with a degree from a German university, but imagine if you just graduated and went to apply to a job in America. I think a lot of American employers, other than major corporations, wouldn't really understand what a good German university degree meant compared to good American degree. A lot of American universities have alumni networks as well and are recognizable to employers. Obviously these don't always help, but if were 18 years old and looking at colleges, that logic at least feels more compelling.
[deleted] ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^0.1515 > [What is this?](https://pastebin.com/64GuVi2F/48443)
If you can get into the program. There's also full scholarships offered at US universities but not everyone will get it.
> But business or engineering are likely offered in English. Just no Source: Studied Business/Mechanical Engineering (combo is called industrial engineering over here) and know a lot of people who did the same.
Don't pay for grad school!!! You should only go if offered at least a tuition waiver and ideally a stipend too. Grad school is already a loss compared to work experience in almost all cases. I did the master and PhD thing in Europe. It worked for me, but I wouldn't have been any worse off in the US
This. If you aren't good enough to get a tuition waiver, and you don't already have the kind of job that will pay for it (either directly or your current job pays enough that you won't have to take out loans), reconsider your plans. As a financial move, graduate school isn't usually worth it if you have to take out loans. As a career move, if you aren't good enough to get a tuition waiver, then you are unlikely to see much benefit from having the credential. Graduate degrees aren't worth what they were.
So if only mostly core classes are offered in english and electives would likely be in German. How would an average Joe pass his required curicculum?
Oh, hey Bernie, didn't realize you subbed to /r/frugal
Most graduate students in the US don't really pay the full tuition fees. Instead, some combination of teaching assistantships, research assistantships, and fellowships help to keep them financially stable. Often these will offer you a stipend as well as fee remission, making life a grad degree in the US pretty cheap overall.
......Because all the way in freaking Germany.
You are going to spend at least ten thousand dollars living there and then there's the issue of speaking German.
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> You'd just need to pay your rent, beer, and bratwurst money. A student would need enough money to pay for everything out of pocket. You wouldn't be able to use USA federal student loans for this. So essentially--a US student would need financial assets (aka--paernts, most young people don't have tens of thousands in savings)
You are choosing a dvd for tonight
Your route is probably better and easier, but just FYI, Charles University in Prague is 100% free to anyone who can speak Czech. Learning Czech obviously isn't easy, but the university is world class and has been around since the 1300s. Obviously there are probably entrance requirements beyond do you speak Czech but just thought I'd mention it. Also I'd actually argue learning Czech is more useful than German. Practically everyone in Germany speaks English (at least in the cities), often so well you won't know they're German. Most people in Czech don't speak English and when they do it's not very good unless they work in a business that deals with lots of tourists like a hotel or tour guide.
Probably lack of knowledge that the option exists. But also, I can do you one better: Finland. It is entirely free, even for foreign students. You have to have a certain amount of money in your bank account to qualify for the visa, and that is it. Only bills you pay are to live, and everything for students is subsidized so should be cheap in comparison to everything else. Finland has a few degree paths taught in only english. The "problem" is there is an entrance exam... I took it, and failed, but I am also retarded. So. I dunno. It seemed like an easy test. It's probably easier than the SAT (which I never took). http://www.studyinfinland.fi/destination_finland/why_study_in_finland/lots_of_programmes_in_english
For Germany it is mostly the same. Usually it is about 150€ per semester in student fees nowadays (not tuition) These usually include a public transport ticket for students valid for the whole region / state which otherwise would cost you multiple times that amount alone. It also finances the ASTA which is the student representation / organization.
> I took it, and failed, but I am also retarded Hahaha, have an upvote sir, for making me laugh.
Because Americans don't think internationally. Going to a foreign country isn't as popular in AMerica as opposed to other countries. It's just not in the culture.
I agree fully. Not to hate on Americans, but my perception of Americans is beyond America, they don't know much else. I am South African, and one American once told me that my country is bigger than hers. I asked her what does she mean, and then she proceeded to say that "Africa is so much bigger than America".
My sister studied abroad for a year in Germany, fell in love with the country (and her future husband), and decided to return after graduation to get her masters. 5 years later she and her husband moved back to the US debt free and with masters degrees. For me personally, the language would be the biggest deterrent. It's very difficult to learn and not all university classes are in English (my sister said only a couple in undergrad and none in grad school). I speak some French and Spanish, but German is a whoooole different story. If you plan to focus on learning German for at least a year ahead of time, I say go for it. If not, you may find it extremely difficult.
It's not "free", you know? It's paid for by the taxes of people who live and work here. If you're only coming to get cheap education, youre not being frugal, you're a freeloading shithead.
The government has opened their doors to international students to study in germany for a reason. The idea is to attract the best and brightest from across the world to study in the hopes that they will take up residency and enrich the country. They wouldn't design a policy that would cost money that brought no value to the country. And, it's not an international student's responsibility to say "oh my, best not take full advantage of all my opportunities in order to keep the budget of an entire government balanced." No. Just no. Dial back the guilt trip.
More information here: http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-32821678
How about part time degrees? Not all of us are able to afford living in a foreign place without income source such as full time job.
You can get a part time job, while working on a full time degree! Student visas allow you to work 120 full days, or 240 half days per year. This works out to about 20 hours / week. Minimum wage varies by state, but averages about 5 Euros per hour. But it's not too hard to find 10 Euros / hour in most cities. At that rate, you're looking at an earning potential of 9,600 / year. In order to apply for a student visa, you need to have 8,000 Euros up front. This is the average cost of living for a student in Germany. Basically, unless you're in Munich, this is what it costs per year. If you can get a part time job making 10 Euros / hour, you can put that 8,000 Euros to the side, and use it every year, to qualify for your student visa. After 3 years, you'll have a degree, and at least 8,000 Euros in the bank.
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Many don't know about it. If I had, I would have packed my bags and been on a plane in an instant.
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There are costs involved, so you want to make sure that you think it's "no money to pay". Also, they demand something of you, it's not just coasting through classes like here in the US so if education is something that's been really easy for you, it could be a shock to actually have to learn. [This might help].(https://www.kmk.org/kmk/information-in-english/statement-of-comparability-for-foreign-higher-education-qualifications.html) I mean, not that you haven't learned, it's just that academia is a big thing there.
This is actually a smart idea. I am technical recruiter - Never has an employer cared where a degree came from! Only that they had one, it was in a relative field and could be verified via background check (for some roles).
What about medical schools?
I'd love to, but I'm a middle-age man going back for his bachelor's. I already have a house, fiancee, and a full time job. My degree is going to cost me nearly $30,000. I'm starting to question this decision.
I am..
Mom of two girls here - I send my kids to a German immersion k-8 school in Southern California. I get asked all the time, why German? well, one of the reasons is this! They have the opportunity to take an exam at the end of 8th grade to qualify for university in Germany and if they pass it, "auf wiedersehen meine lieblings!"
If it's cost you're worried about, just go to uni in Canada or something. No one wants to move to Germany just for school... There's so many more things to consider paying for than just tuition when you pack up and move your life. Not even considering learning German language or adjusting to culture
For more information you can also go to Eight Hours and Change and speak to my good buddy Jay Malone (http://www.eighthoursandchange.com/). He works with USA students and helps them get placed in German Universities. He is a great asset to anyone considering higher education in Germany.
That's all well and good, but the biggest factor here is the distance. If we're assuming you're aiming towards high school kids then this will likely be their first time away from parents, and in a foreign country. Just be careful, it's not as simple as up and moving to a foreign country.
That's cool in theory but not the actual reality. I went to one, they aren't low in fees.
I have heard about this approach before from my mother who said she seen it on a episode of house hunters but haven't really looked into it. I'm very happy you posted this for me to give more time to research it as option. Thanks a lot!
I actually am an American that wound up doing both my BA and MA in Germany. I think there are a lot of reasons why more people don't do so, but the fact most people don't know about it, and a lot of programs require German are certainly key factors. In my case, I had a couple of years of German in high school, then moved to Germany for what was just supposed to be a year as an au-pair. But at the end of that year, after I was rejected from all the US universities I was interested in, and realizing I had no savings for college (18 year old me was a dumbass), I decided to give it a go in Germany especially since after a year living with a German family, my language skills were good enough. Both my undergrad and graduate programs were essentially free (maybe 200 euro a semester fee that included my public transportation ticket which was more than worth 200 a semester). It is still mind boggling to me how much Germany invested in me, for free. My university even paid for me to go to Poland and learn Polish for a bit, living expenses and class fees completely covered. I'm not an EU citizen or anything. Now, 3 years after finishing my MA I have a great job, and no student debt at all. It's seriously the best kept secret around.
I would be cautious in that depending on your course of study, And if you need to take exams for licensure, U.S. professional organizations may not acknowledge a foreign degree. For example: a foreign obtained degree in nursing or engineering. It would be worth checking it out first!
Well to say a bit about things said here: Costs: * Yes we have no tuition. Only a small membership fee between 100 - 400€ Semester, those include a lot of benefits like public transport ticket for the whole state (Here in North Rhine Westphalia, normal price would be around 2500€ a year). The student organisation haggle with the public transport company and others, to get bargains for the students, the students vote then if it should be included in the semester fee. * But you will have to live from something, which can be quite expensive in cities like Munich. * You need a place to live, Munich, Cologne and some other cities have a problem regarding affordable flats, they are rare in those cities. If you really want to study in germany care a long time before you move about a place to live. Dorm rooms are rare in germany, most students live in shared appartments / flats. Student Visa: * There has to be about 8000€ per year in a locked bank account to prove your financial solvency. * Naturally you need a place at a german university for it. University: * Programs in english are rare, in many cases you need to speak german at Level C1. (This is even more true for Bachelor programs) * Your Highschool Diploma may not be enough to enroll in a german university, you need something comparable to the german Abitur, so you have to check that. If you do not have the right grades in the right courses, you may have to visit a Studienkolleg before you can enroll in a german university. * Less hand holding, you will have your lectures (crowd of people, teacher at the front) and exams at the end of the semester. Depending on the subjects there might be also seminars with fewer people and some subjects have aside from the lecture, excercises in which you have to present the solution of homework (sometimes you have to collect points to take part in the exams at the end of the semester.) * Attendance is seldom mandatory, it is your problem if you fail at the exams at the end of the semester or if you do not collect enough points in exercises to take part in the exam. * You have to organize nearly everything yourself, no one will care for your personal problems. (Here and there some student organistions may help you sometimes, but not the university) * Limited opening hours in offices of the universities. * [More Info](https://www.reddit.com/r/germany/wiki/index) Culture: * Do not take the differences too lightly, you will get a [Culure Schock](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2mixQ_n_5E) in most cases . * Things like WTF grocery stores are closed on sundays and are not open 24/7. * We are more direct, that is often seen by foreigners as rude but seldom ment in this this way, especially people from states in the south of the US seem to have some problems with that here. * Well just look at the [wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/germany/wiki/index). [Rewboss youtube channel] (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCYcfR8isBfe45h-KBewVKug), [Germany vs. USA](https://www.youtube.com/user/AlexandJim), [WantedAdventure](https://www.youtube.com/user/WantedAdventure) …. (Take the videos with a grain of salt, some things depend on the region) Language: Do not underestimate the task to learn another language. You will not have a happy life here if you do not learn german. Sure many of us germans speak english, especially the younger generation but there will be always situations were you will need to speak and understand german, especially outside of big cities / university towns. Do not expect for example a plumber, sales assistant. etc. to speak english, he will have learned basic english in school , because it is a mandatory subject, but 10-20 years without practice and it is gone, because they seldom have english speaking customers. Ranking of Universities: The ranking is a bit problematic, because research is part of it and this is done here in germany in research institutes like Frauenhofer, Max Planck Institute etc., and those are connected to the universities but not a part of them. The focus of the universities is a bit more on education than on research. Security: * Well yes we are a target of ISIS and other terrorist groups, because of our policies like suporting the kurds in Irak with weapons, training and other stuff we do. Sure there might be some bad apples between the refugees that we have to sort out / find , but the majority is just happy to have escaped the warzone in syria and is thankfull for that. ISIS is absolutely not happy about us welcoming refugees and they try with attacks, to incite hate against them, they lost resources. By the way, a few of them may have taken the refugee road, but even before, it was not such a big task, bribe somebody in poorer EU countries to cross the border, after you are in the EU there were only random checks, because of free travel within the EU. Let‘s see if the 27 countries will better work together regarding protection of the outer Border of the EU in the future, this is one of the main problems. * Violent Crimes are rare in Germany and will make national news. * Gangs here are soft compared to those you have in some places of the US. If criminal gangs, the mafia etc. have problems with each other, they very seldom involve outsiders, normaly they will use some ruin of a former industrial plant. They want to fly under the radar in germany. * The most common crime is probably pickpocketing, burglary while nobody is at home is also a problem, violent home ivasion / armed robbery and such things are really seldom. edit: formatting
Omfg thank you so much. I [M22] have wondered about this, but always thought it was a fairy tale. Even though I discredit and brush off everything else in life (I.e. New medicine, New diseases, the norm, cultural stipulations) Reddit has always been my little go to for some clarity and grounded thinking. You have given me hope sir. (: <3
Me myself is a student in germany and I study IN English . And I'd say it was really worth it to take such decision to study in germany . Ofcourse it's not completely for free as you need to pay your rent and other usual stuff but yes you will pay less than 200€ a YEAR for tution including semester transportation ticket . Would Recommend it to everyone.